Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like
Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,
Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information
Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.
Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us
Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get
Speaker 1: this started. Hello, and welcome to the Market Disruptors Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today i am joined by Alex Aidelman, the co founder
Speaker 1: and CEO of Lolli. They are pushing bitcoin adoption and
Speaker 1: awareness by providing bitcoin as a cash back award. We
Speaker 1: talk about building companies in the bitcoin space. Is experienced
Speaker 1: building in other spaces, challenges that he's seen building in
Speaker 1: the bitcoin space, where we're at in the adoption cycle,
Speaker 1: since he's at the forefront of it, and so many
Speaker 1: other good topics. It was a great conversation and let's
Speaker 1: just go ahead and jump right into it. All right, everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Alex Ailman. He's the CEO and co
Speaker 1: founder of Lolly and Lolly is a company that's really
Speaker 1: trying to push adoption, awareness and adoption in the bitcoin
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency space. And so someone that I'm really interested to
Speaker 1: talk to. So welcome Alex. Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah great. Um, I know we tried to line this
Speaker 1: up a couple of times. I'm glad we finally did. Uh.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I've been excited to talk to you.
Speaker 1: So for those that don't know, why don't you tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about who you are, the products
Speaker 1: you worked on the past, how you got here, and
Speaker 1: and what you're doing. Yeah. So yeah, my name is
Speaker 1: Alex Um. I'm one of the co founders of lolly
Speaker 1: and also the CEO of Lolli and uh yeah, what
Speaker 1: we've created is a really simple way for people to
Speaker 1: earn bitcoin when they shop online as they normally would.
Speaker 1: So we have over nine merchants on the platform. People
Speaker 1: are these are These are companies that you shop at
Speaker 1: every day. There's Walmart, there's price Line, Booking, dot Com,
Speaker 1: safe Way, Grocery UM, places that people where you can
Speaker 1: go get your essentials. You get your groceries, you take
Speaker 1: your travel, um, buy your toilet paper, whatever you're looking for.
Speaker 1: And we make it really easy for everybody to earn
Speaker 1: bitcoin when you when you do it. So right now,
Speaker 1: it's a chrome Safari and Firefox extension, and it's sort
Speaker 1: of like follows you around and you go to different
Speaker 1: sites and it pops up and it says, hey, do
Speaker 1: you want to earn ten percent back in bitcoin? You
Speaker 1: can also go to lolly dot com and see our
Speaker 1: nine d plus merchants on the platform and UM earn
Speaker 1: more bitcoin when you do it. UM. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: we're we UM started this company after the whole team
Speaker 1: and I we built a previous company called Cosmic, and
Speaker 1: we sold into very similar space, UH, into into merchants,
Speaker 1: and we would go to merchants and we would UM
Speaker 1: sell the solution to them that let them sell their
Speaker 1: products anywhere. With this mission of democratizing commerce. UM. We
Speaker 1: ended up learning about bitcoin a couple of years into
Speaker 1: building the company and found it just to be this
Speaker 1: like fascinating technology. UM. The whole team was really drawn
Speaker 1: into this idea of giving everyone in the world the
Speaker 1: ability to have the same asset and be able to
Speaker 1: trade that asset and send it anywhere in the world
Speaker 1: a cross border, thus democratizing commerce native to a currency.
Speaker 1: So we all got really excited about it. It never
Speaker 1: made sense for us as like a payments mechanism with
Speaker 1: our last company, and we talked to merchants about it.
Speaker 1: They weren't really excited about it because it didn't really
Speaker 1: solve their real problems at that moment. So that was
Speaker 1: sort of where we started, like grew in this in
Speaker 1: this idea of how do you distribute bitcoin to more people?
Speaker 1: The next phase is, you know, we end up getting
Speaker 1: acquired by a company called pop Sugar to come into
Speaker 1: power one point two billion and retail revenue. A year
Speaker 1: after that, after we grew quite a bit post acquisition,
Speaker 1: a bigger company came along, Ebates, which is the largest
Speaker 1: cash back company in the US. They came along and
Speaker 1: bought us away from Pop Sugar in a divestiture. So
Speaker 1: we were there for about a year, got to learn
Speaker 1: the cashback model, and I was thinking while I was there, like,
Speaker 1: you know, pitch this to them. How incredible would it
Speaker 1: be to use the cash back model as a distribution
Speaker 1: mechanism for bitcoin to teach people about bitcoin and spread
Speaker 1: it to more people. And the central thesis of that
Speaker 1: is that most people are not investors, and even more
Speaker 1: than that, most people are not minors. So how are
Speaker 1: you going to get mass bitcoin adoption without attracting a
Speaker 1: whole new wave of consumers. So we said, let's take
Speaker 1: the consumer that shops online that knows rewards, that once rewards,
Speaker 1: and let's share a bitcoin with them and introduce them
Speaker 1: to bitcoin in this new way. Um. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: we we launched about eleven months ago and it's just
Speaker 1: been incredible. We're bringing new people into bitcoin. We're bringing
Speaker 1: I think importantly women into bitcoin. Um there's thirty of
Speaker 1: our users are female. And and so just shows sort
Speaker 1: of like early signs of increased adoption by new people
Speaker 1: that previously did not have bitcoin where we're not um
Speaker 1: in the space. Yeah, that's awesome. So I think everyone
Speaker 1: is aware of the system, I suppose, right. So we're
Speaker 1: earning like actually or rewards back, so whether that's airline
Speaker 1: miles or target reward points or whatever. And then there's
Speaker 1: the cash back. Right So now credit cards companies probably
Speaker 1: started it, but you know now they'll give you cash
Speaker 1: back instead. But rather than in earning a cash back
Speaker 1: or a rewards point, you're given bitcoin exactly right. So
Speaker 1: we're taking something that people are already familiar with. We're
Speaker 1: not having to convince them that rewards are good, free
Speaker 1: things are good. Um, But we're also assigning value and
Speaker 1: having people pay attention to it, not just around price
Speaker 1: and not just around investing, but around passive earning. And
Speaker 1: when they can go see that their points are deflating um,
Speaker 1: you know, and and there's this like um or the
Speaker 1: starry inflating. There's this inflationary nature to two points, whereas
Speaker 1: bitcoin is like there's only twenty one million of them.
Speaker 1: You're getting real bitcoin, and that is going up in
Speaker 1: value because there's scarcity UM and because more people believe
Speaker 1: in bitcoin and they're learning about the principles of bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Then like so far, like our users have seen bitcoin
Speaker 1: triple and and they haven't seen the reward triple, and
Speaker 1: they haven't seen their points triple. They've seen their points
Speaker 1: stay the same or deflate um in value. So I
Speaker 1: think it's really important. It's almost like a forcing function
Speaker 1: of teaching somebody about the importance of bitcoin indirectly, then
Speaker 1: they value it more and then they become more invested
Speaker 1: in it um and they're choosing us over cash back programs,
Speaker 1: which is a really great signal. Yeah, something is uh,
Speaker 1: something definitely switches in your brain when you start to
Speaker 1: realize how a deflationary currency works. And so Um, A
Speaker 1: lot of people do come for the money aspect to
Speaker 1: make money, but then, like you said, as you see
Speaker 1: it going up in value, you're like, Wow, what the
Speaker 1: heck is this? I need to learn more about it.
Speaker 1: And it's weird because it even changes the way that
Speaker 1: you want to spend money, the way you look at
Speaker 1: spending money, Like I look at spending dollars and I
Speaker 1: don't really think about it, but like, oh no, I'll
Speaker 1: never spend my bitcoin. So, um, that's interesting. Now. UM,
Speaker 1: if I guess your primary market right now though it's
Speaker 1: people that are already aware of bitcoin, is there like
Speaker 1: an option where people maybe at first want to earn
Speaker 1: cash back and then they have an option to choose bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Are you only do bitcoin? We only do bitcoin. That's
Speaker 1: our that's like what we're really focused. And there's plenty
Speaker 1: of cash back companies out there, and I don't think
Speaker 1: that there needs to be any more competition on that front.
Speaker 1: You technically can like you can exchange it for cash,
Speaker 1: like you can you you get Bitcoin is the default currency,
Speaker 1: and I think that's really important for our brand to
Speaker 1: be around bitcoin. Um, but you can get cash and
Speaker 1: you can do whatever. Your bitcoin is your bitcoin like
Speaker 1: you can do it whatever you want with it UM
Speaker 1: and so some you know, very few people have like
Speaker 1: cashed out when you know, when their bitcoin triple double whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever point that they got into UM. But
Speaker 1: for the most part, people were turning people into holders,
Speaker 1: you know, hoddlers and and and that's been like our
Speaker 1: bread and butter. And do you offer a wallet or
Speaker 1: do you transfer to the wallet of the address of
Speaker 1: their choosing so loally is effective a wallet. It's a
Speaker 1: custodial wallet, and most people are keeping it within the wallet.
Speaker 1: There's certain like bitcoin maximalists that have earned you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars in bitcoin and are you know, feel
Speaker 1: safer you know, holding their own keys and so you
Speaker 1: can transfer it out and hold it your own it's
Speaker 1: really up to you. Um we it's sort of our
Speaker 1: mission to teach people the importance of self sovereignty and
Speaker 1: being their own bank and owning their keys. But there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that want other people to manage
Speaker 1: that for them. And so, you know, we can't come
Speaker 1: from a payment's background. We come from uh you know,
Speaker 1: our last company was pc I Level one compliant. We
Speaker 1: were uh you know, we we had an extreme dedication,
Speaker 1: you know, partly because we had two in the security,
Speaker 1: privacy and all of that good stuff. So I think
Speaker 1: there a lot of people you know, are trusting us
Speaker 1: with you know that we're we're taking the same principles
Speaker 1: and protocols and applying them to the bitcoin space that
Speaker 1: we did uh in the payments world. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: some people don't you know, trust anybody, and they want
Speaker 1: their own bitcoin, even with like fifteen dollars a bitcoin.
Speaker 1: So it's really up to the consumer. Their money should
Speaker 1: be you know, up to them. And that's the whole
Speaker 1: thing that we have to teach people, is like you
Speaker 1: should have control of your money and be able to
Speaker 1: do it with what you want, and you shouldn't um
Speaker 1: like if you you know, give a bank cash, like
Speaker 1: it's debatable if that's really your money. Um, the bank's
Speaker 1: doing all these things with it, they're lending. So we
Speaker 1: like to think about like the future banking system giving
Speaker 1: these like attraction layers of earning like lending um cash
Speaker 1: back these sort of things, and giving it back to
Speaker 1: the consumer. Uh. I think that like one of the
Speaker 1: most difficult things about bitcoin, which you can probably relate to,
Speaker 1: is a lot of people just don't understand what money is,
Speaker 1: and they don't understand how money works. Thus they're like, well,
Speaker 1: what what are the issues? Like my cash works, at
Speaker 1: my you know, at my whole foods, like my credit
Speaker 1: card works, but they don't understand the back in systems
Speaker 1: of like how it all works and why and where
Speaker 1: it breaks down. So bitcoin is like better money. It's
Speaker 1: more efficient. It's like it functions without needing any any
Speaker 1: trust in any centralized party is and no data breaches.
Speaker 1: It's just like this beautiful, incredible piece of code that
Speaker 1: we all can use, um, you know, hypothetically for this
Speaker 1: like new money. Yeah, it's crazy. Ye, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: People have no idea how the financial system works. And um,
Speaker 1: when I do a lot of uh, I do a
Speaker 1: lot of digging through history to kind of bring some
Speaker 1: of those lessons back. And it's interesting because when you
Speaker 1: look back all the way to like the founding of
Speaker 1: the United States, and you see some of the quotes
Speaker 1: from Thomas Jefferson, but Benjamin Franklin, but even Henry Ford
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundred said that, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he said that if if the average, if if the
Speaker 1: Americans understood how the financial system worked there would be
Speaker 1: a revolution overnight, and like this is like in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds and they got it back then. Um,
Speaker 1: numerous quotes of you know how much danger will be
Speaker 1: in if the central banks take over and all these things. Um,
Speaker 1: but now you know over you know, the last eighty years,
Speaker 1: hundred years of education has been completely changed and now
Speaker 1: nobody is aware of it. But hopefully that changes. I'm
Speaker 1: curious because now you've built your you're a builder. You've
Speaker 1: built a couple of companies and and a couple of acquisitions.
Speaker 1: So you built it in like the payments based and
Speaker 1: in like the reward space, cash back space, and now
Speaker 1: bitcoin space. Um, how similar is it or how much
Speaker 1: different is it building in the bitcoin crypto space versus
Speaker 1: like a traditional like points back or cash back space.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a great question. Um. I mean building
Speaker 1: a company is build a company, and a second time
Speaker 1: it's just like it's so different like the second time around. UM.
Speaker 1: And I love to like share my like musings with
Speaker 1: they just building companies in general. Um. And so we're
Speaker 1: like one thing a lot of people don't know is
Speaker 1: like we're building with the same team as our last company.
Speaker 1: So we we had an incredible team. We like everyone
Speaker 1: got the band back together to start this. So having
Speaker 1: like the trust built into the this next company, we
Speaker 1: you know, we we built some pretty incredible technology with
Speaker 1: the last company. We love building together. We all trust
Speaker 1: each other, We work really well together. And so u
Speaker 1: of us built our our last company together. UM, and
Speaker 1: you know, I've taken a lot of like learnings from that.
Speaker 1: So our day to day is very similar to building
Speaker 1: any company. UM. You know, you're hiring people, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're doing that, everything very similar. The customers are a
Speaker 1: little bit different. I don't think that a lot of people, UM,
Speaker 1: because so our last company was mainly like an enterprise
Speaker 1: company that was like our our primary play. And building
Speaker 1: a consumer company, I think is very different. And building
Speaker 1: a consumer company in the bitcoin space is also very different. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that you have to be very very transparent.
Speaker 1: You have to be you have to tell people exactly
Speaker 1: what you're doing. You're you have to have you know,
Speaker 1: we have open source code and like we we we
Speaker 1: want people to UM, you know, make sure keep us
Speaker 1: honest about like the things that we're doing, the business
Speaker 1: practice that we're doing, which be very transparent with our community.
Speaker 1: Um that said, we get, we get, and we have
Speaker 1: this extremely engaged community. Like if you follow us on Twitter,
Speaker 1: you know, like like people who use Lolly are obsessed
Speaker 1: with it and they love sacking stacks, they love earning
Speaker 1: bitcoin and and so when we're building in this like transparent,
Speaker 1: like I think people love the story when they love
Speaker 1: to feel like they're building with us, and we because
Speaker 1: we build so open and we like leverage our community
Speaker 1: to go get new merchants, which increases the adoption of bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Like every like we're all working together, like they're stacking stats,
Speaker 1: we're you know, we're getting new merchants. Um. We do
Speaker 1: this game where we're like, oh, who do you want
Speaker 1: to see next, and like people are like, oh, I
Speaker 1: want safe Way, I want um, I want like hotels
Speaker 1: dot com, I want Booking dot com. And then we
Speaker 1: go show those two like Booking dot Com and we
Speaker 1: go get them on board because our community demanded it
Speaker 1: and they see this like this incredibly engaged community. So
Speaker 1: building in the bitcoin space, I think it's like really
Speaker 1: nice because with with with when we were at ebates,
Speaker 1: one of the things we learned is like the coupon
Speaker 1: clippers and sort of like this older generation that transition
Speaker 1: into ebates and was obsessed with cash back is like
Speaker 1: this rabid customer that like us getting their cash back.
Speaker 1: And I mean, who doesn't love getting like things for
Speaker 1: free and like getting castion. And so people who are
Speaker 1: like getting stats back and people who are getting bitcoin
Speaker 1: back are like so excited to like get involved. And
Speaker 1: every time we land a new merchant, it's like one step,
Speaker 1: you know, forward for the bitcoin community. Because we've been
Speaker 1: very transparent about our roadmap. It starts with rewards, and
Speaker 1: then over time, as we as bitcoin transitions from a
Speaker 1: store of value to a medium of exchange, we're at
Speaker 1: that point of transition with that, like vertex. And that's
Speaker 1: what gets so excited when we go drive fifty million
Speaker 1: dollars in sales for Walmart and I go to them
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you guys are spending five billion dollars
Speaker 1: in credit card fees. I don't even know how much
Speaker 1: you're spending in chargebacks. Why don't you use bitcoin? Why
Speaker 1: don't you use some sort of digitally native currency with
Speaker 1: immutability to solve your issue around UM fraud, to solve
Speaker 1: your issue around like credit card fees. And if we're
Speaker 1: at that point of purchase, and we have all these
Speaker 1: consumers that are like you saying, Wally is like the
Speaker 1: preferred rewards wallet. That gets really exciting. To save people
Speaker 1: even more money, to bring even more transparency to eat commerce,
Speaker 1: to purchasing, to commerce in general. Like, that's that's where
Speaker 1: it gets really exciting. So I personally love building in
Speaker 1: the bitcoin space. I think it's really exciting, and I
Speaker 1: just don't think there's like too many markets that have
Speaker 1: a consumer that is so passionate about the future and
Speaker 1: this like new world that we're all creating together. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a it's a good thing
Speaker 1: and a bad thing. I think the reason why the people,
Speaker 1: the consumers are so passionate is because we're in such
Speaker 1: an early stage, and so in the early stage, the
Speaker 1: early adopters are like the true believers, and so the
Speaker 1: true believers, the early adopters are going to be super
Speaker 1: passionate about it and are going to want to share it,
Speaker 1: which is why it's amazing to work with them. The
Speaker 1: con to that is that it's a small segment of
Speaker 1: the population. Uh so, um, you know, as that segment
Speaker 1: of the population grows, maybe some of that enthusiasm. Enthusiasm
Speaker 1: died down a little bit. But that's an interesting insight
Speaker 1: that you have and I can that. So people are
Speaker 1: used to getting rewards back. People like getting cash back better,
Speaker 1: but we have cash everywhere. This is this is bitcoin
Speaker 1: and so for the true believers, they really want that.
Speaker 1: I guess, uh, you know, So on the consumer side,
Speaker 1: I get that. I'm thinking more about like the new
Speaker 1: maybe like regulatory side that you have to deal with. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you're a wallet provider, so now you have
Speaker 1: like a bitcoin custody to deal with. I would imagine
Speaker 1: that's more challenging than just sending points back or cash
Speaker 1: back or is that not much different? Um? I mean
Speaker 1: it is. But it's like, you know, we work with
Speaker 1: some like, you know, incredible third parties that like like
Speaker 1: are you know, they have um like the regulatory licenses
Speaker 1: that we need, so we can off board a lot
Speaker 1: of the um the that side of the house to
Speaker 1: other parties that specialize in custodial solutions and we can
Speaker 1: really focus on the part of the business that we
Speaker 1: are uniquely great at. And it's it's it's just as uh,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's hard to build anything. But like
Speaker 1: I mean, building our last company was really hard and
Speaker 1: has our last company has so many challenges that we
Speaker 1: had to deal with that we don't have to deal
Speaker 1: with this company. So there's like given, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of a give and take in pros and cons to
Speaker 1: building any business. And I think, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, including myself, are maybe
Speaker 1: concerned or at least aware of of It's. See, it
Speaker 1: seems to be very difficult to do crypto based businesses,
Speaker 1: bitcoin based businesses in the United States. Um we saw
Speaker 1: I think just this week even Goldman Sachs Company Circle
Speaker 1: announced they're moving most of Poloniacs offshore because they just
Speaker 1: can't deal with US regulations. UM. So we see this
Speaker 1: happening over and over and over. Um US people being
Speaker 1: blocked from participating in different different exchanges and things like
Speaker 1: that as well. So I was just curious if you
Speaker 1: experienced any roadblocks. But as far as you're concerned, you're saying,
Speaker 1: it's kind of about the same for what you're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty much it's a lot of the same. And
Speaker 1: there I mean, like I guess it's you know, you
Speaker 1: only know what you don't know. Oh, and like when
Speaker 1: we started this business. There's so many things that we
Speaker 1: learned and we had to learn and we've gotten good
Speaker 1: at so and like also, you know, we've been in
Speaker 1: the bitcoin space for five years, so it's not like
Speaker 1: these are new things to us. We we know the regulations,
Speaker 1: we know how to like we've built in the space
Speaker 1: for a long time. Uh. And I actually think that payments,
Speaker 1: the payments space, which is what we're doing, previously had
Speaker 1: way more regulations and was way more I mean, like
Speaker 1: our claim to fame in the payments world, which you
Speaker 1: know doesn't get a lot of press or credit or whatever,
Speaker 1: is like we survived the Target breach. Um, you know
Speaker 1: five six years ago. Uh, Target had like the biggest
Speaker 1: breach of all time, and we had just landed them,
Speaker 1: and we had to survive all of these penetration tests
Speaker 1: as like this four person company, and and so that
Speaker 1: was like a really scared moment. But you you know,
Speaker 1: we've built an incredibly secure platform. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: You had to survive the penetration tests, so without disposing
Speaker 1: too much information from targets And basically like when Target
Speaker 1: got breached, when anyone gets breached, you they have to
Speaker 1: go test all of their vendors to make sure that
Speaker 1: everyone is compliant and and then they do advance like
Speaker 1: security screenings on all the different technologies, and like third
Speaker 1: parties come in UM to reevaluate which which parties they
Speaker 1: can keep, which parties they have to get rid of
Speaker 1: UM because they have revamped security to never have a
Speaker 1: breach again into like you know, really like lockdown. And
Speaker 1: as the smallest vendor by far that they had, we
Speaker 1: were able to survive that breach. And so we only
Speaker 1: did that because we built the best technology and the
Speaker 1: most secure technology in the space. And we did that
Speaker 1: from day one. And there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: I think my team, like our principles are around where
Speaker 1: we like we will not compromise on privacy, we will
Speaker 1: not compromise on security, and doesn't matter if it takes
Speaker 1: longer to build and ship because of that, we just
Speaker 1: we're we're not willing to give that up. So we
Speaker 1: took we took those principles with Cosmic. We were rewarded
Speaker 1: with like by them. And I mean think about like
Speaker 1: your incentives as a new startup, Like if you get hacked,
Speaker 1: if you get reached like that, you lose credibility, You
Speaker 1: lose trust, and so you're incentivized to look out for
Speaker 1: those sort of things and and to like do what
Speaker 1: you do what you have to do to like be
Speaker 1: the most secure company and to not get breached and
Speaker 1: to not get packed. It seems like most people really
Speaker 1: today don't don't even really think about their privacy. I
Speaker 1: think some of these hacks are starting to bring some
Speaker 1: of that to the forefront. I think it's still a
Speaker 1: long way off. Um, would you agree with that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, if I could like snap my fingers and
Speaker 1: do just about anything, I I one of the one
Speaker 1: of my first initiatives would be to like have everyone
Speaker 1: understand why like the importance of privacy and the importance
Speaker 1: of like their identity. Um. I think that credit card
Speaker 1: companies and credit companies in general have There's been so
Speaker 1: many breaches and people just don't understand like all the
Speaker 1: information that's out there, and it's really it's it's a
Speaker 1: scary world to live in the dystopian world when all
Speaker 1: your information is digitized and that information is protected quote
Speaker 1: unquote protected by third party these like centralized institutions, and
Speaker 1: there's no trust in like if you're trusting this like
Speaker 1: institution to like protect you and there's no sort of
Speaker 1: like um, like, there's no way to protect yourself. It's
Speaker 1: like a very scary world. So, uh, companies that have
Speaker 1: done the best I think has been like Apple, Like
Speaker 1: I trust Apple with my data because even when they're
Speaker 1: subpoenaed by the you know, the Supreme Court, they you know,
Speaker 1: their stance was like, we don't even have access to
Speaker 1: our own customers data like and and they even if
Speaker 1: they wanted to, they couldn't like pull the data. Thus,
Speaker 1: if they got hacked, you can't find data that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist on it on an individual, whereas other companies like
Speaker 1: Facebook have made and Google have made businesses off of
Speaker 1: controlling people's data. It's it's interesting to see how that
Speaker 1: will evolve and how companies will like look at over time,
Speaker 1: how how much they're incentivized to protect data and then
Speaker 1: arguably like not store certain data or tokenize certain data. Um,
Speaker 1: because the biggest companies in the world are the biggest
Speaker 1: honey pots in the world are data like companies that
Speaker 1: have lots of data. Yeah, and I think I think
Speaker 1: the bar has been raised. So I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: if you're Google and you're tracking my Internet usage and
Speaker 1: what I'm looking at online. I mean, that's that's a
Speaker 1: lot that obviously what I'm looking at good, you know,
Speaker 1: incriminate me or could tell a lot about me or whatever.
Speaker 1: But when you're looking at what I'm spending my money on,
Speaker 1: that's even deeper. That's like even a more uh kind
Speaker 1: of a more invasion of privacy because now it's not
Speaker 1: just what I'm thinking about, is what I'm actually doing
Speaker 1: and so um the bar has been raised, and hopefully
Speaker 1: that that brings awareness. But I think just the average
Speaker 1: person wouldn't even think about, like what information is Lolly
Speaker 1: keeping on me? It's all I keeping information on my purchases,
Speaker 1: Like where where is that information going? What happens if
Speaker 1: that gets out? How are you going to use that
Speaker 1: against me? Etcetera. Yeah, So I mean something that we
Speaker 1: like hold like the utmost important to We don't know
Speaker 1: what you're buying. We don't want to know what you're buying.
Speaker 1: We we just need to know the amount you spend
Speaker 1: at each merchant and like and that's how we we
Speaker 1: fulfill like the bitcoint back, so we we actually we
Speaker 1: take a stance and we want to colle collect the
Speaker 1: least amount of information and we do our own audits
Speaker 1: of like could we collect less information? Could we like
Speaker 1: to fulfill the same purpose which is ultimately getting bitcoin
Speaker 1: back on your purchases. So, um, that's the approach we take.
Speaker 1: I think it's we've been rewarded for it so far. Um.
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's scary too, Like I think
Speaker 1: users should always ask what's being collected? How is it
Speaker 1: being uh, you know secured? Are people selling data like
Speaker 1: we have? We have no business and in selling data?
Speaker 1: We like, we are not incentivized to sell data. We
Speaker 1: don't want to sell data. We make money when you
Speaker 1: make purchases online, and like that's the way that we
Speaker 1: make money and that is a great business We it's
Speaker 1: a proven business model with ebates, Like we don't need
Speaker 1: to reinvent the wheel on there. We like, we want
Speaker 1: to be a company that like makes money when you
Speaker 1: earn bitcoin. That's it. And we don't need a lot
Speaker 1: of data to to do that. We just need people
Speaker 1: to use Lolly and shop online as they normally would.
Speaker 1: What these like micro amounts that people are getting back,
Speaker 1: Um is their key C requirements on that No k
Speaker 1: y C only onboarding. It's only a minimal k y
Speaker 1: C on the off ramp um, and all we need
Speaker 1: is first name, last name, and email email to do
Speaker 1: on the off ramp to to transfer to U S
Speaker 1: dollars or to transfer to your own bitcoin address because
Speaker 1: the amounts are so low. Yeah, exactly, Okay, got it.
Speaker 1: So there's not like a big issue with like in
Speaker 1: our business, people are buying the people are buying like
Speaker 1: millions of dollars a bitcoin that they can potentially use
Speaker 1: for like you know, let's just say in a worst
Speaker 1: case scenario, terrorism or or some sort of like black connectivity,
Speaker 1: Like people have to go buy like they're buying like
Speaker 1: toilet paper from Walmart or like flights and for like
Speaker 1: hotels dot com, and they're getting good point back. There's
Speaker 1: like not a lot of like fraud that you can commit.
Speaker 1: There's not there's not a lot of incentives for like
Speaker 1: paying a lot of money for something and getting you know,
Speaker 1: let's just say like like our average is like seven
Speaker 1: percent back. So the k y C is actually extremely minimal,
Speaker 1: and we actually don't have to do it on the
Speaker 1: on ramp because we're basically just creating somebody a wallet
Speaker 1: and and then they can start earning. So our our
Speaker 1: whole goal in building Lolly was to create the easiest
Speaker 1: on ramp into bitcoin. And all you need to do
Speaker 1: is like like sign up with your email and you
Speaker 1: can start earning like you just it's it's like takes
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Yeah. Yeah, so seven percent is the average.
Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good number. I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you about that. Yeah, And I think our highest
Speaker 1: back right now is like, so you can earn a
Speaker 1: lot of what's the harmony, Yeah, some of the digital
Speaker 1: products of like really high bitcoin back. Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: And then you can sort that and figure out which
Speaker 1: ones get the highest percentage back and then try to
Speaker 1: frequent those if that if that fits in your buying schedule.
Speaker 1: M exactly. So, um, you talked about finding merchants before
Speaker 1: you talked about how um you know, you look at
Speaker 1: the community. The community you know it's really voting someone
Speaker 1: up or asking about them, and you kind of go
Speaker 1: to them and use that. I'm curious, you know, when
Speaker 1: you're going to merchants or finding merchants, how is that
Speaker 1: process work out? Like are you going to these merchants
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, we're doing this thing where we pay
Speaker 1: bitcoin back and they're like, what the heck is that?
Speaker 1: Or is it like you just say we're doing a
Speaker 1: rewards point and you don't really get into the whole
Speaker 1: bitcoin thing. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I
Speaker 1: think it's changed over the since we launched UM about
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago. When I first started
Speaker 1: talking with merchants, UH, the conversation was mainly about points.
Speaker 1: It was like, we're doing a reward system. Doesn't like
Speaker 1: they don't really care what you're giving them points. It
Speaker 1: could be like you know, magical Unicorn points or whatever,
Speaker 1: like they don't really care. It's like there's so many
Speaker 1: point systems out there that as long as you're like
Speaker 1: rewarding somebody in something with something that someone wants, they
Speaker 1: don't really care. So we took that approach because it's like,
Speaker 1: if I were to go convince all these people on
Speaker 1: bitcoin to start, that's a really difficult sales process. UM.
Speaker 1: If I were to convince people on rewards, it's just
Speaker 1: another rewards platform. So we were able to get over
Speaker 1: five hundred merchants on board UM directly on board because
Speaker 1: we're like, look, there's a big market with bitcoin, doesn't
Speaker 1: you don't need to know what bitcoin is other than
Speaker 1: it is a point system. And that's how we positioned it,
Speaker 1: were like bitcoin is just points that's decentralized. It's determined
Speaker 1: by the world, but like like buy buyers, by sellers,
Speaker 1: by investors of what bitcoin is worth at any time,
Speaker 1: whereas points are determined by the institution that is giving
Speaker 1: rewarding the points. And and so they that was like
Speaker 1: a great way to get the first wave, the next
Speaker 1: wave that that came. That's like the next four or
Speaker 1: and fifty that we've gotten over the last year that
Speaker 1: have been sort of the slow removers um. They came
Speaker 1: on board because they saw that bitcoin was able as
Speaker 1: a as a marketing tool, was able to attract so
Speaker 1: many new users to their new shoppers to their their platforms.
Speaker 1: So they saw the success with Walmart with overstock, with
Speaker 1: price line, and that's how we got all this, like
Speaker 1: this new wave of merchants that came on a platform.
Speaker 1: And I think to this day we have more merchant
Speaker 1: adoption than any other bitcoin company in the world because
Speaker 1: we took a very different approach and we gave them
Speaker 1: an incentive to work with a bitcoin company. And now
Speaker 1: I've got like I mean, my friends at Walmart. My
Speaker 1: friends at Sam's Club like there, they like love bitcoin
Speaker 1: because they now have have had almost as forcing function
Speaker 1: to learn about bitcoin because it makes sense for their
Speaker 1: business because we're driving sales with their business. Then they
Speaker 1: start to ask the real questions, the good questions about
Speaker 1: what is bitcoin? Why do people want it? It's generating
Speaker 1: real sales for me and my business. Do we need
Speaker 1: to think about more applications. That's when we played this
Speaker 1: like long game wherein five years I come back to
Speaker 1: Walmart and I say, hey, we've generated fifty million dollars
Speaker 1: in sales for you all. What do you think about
Speaker 1: doing pay rally pay with bitcoin and have that that
Speaker 1: go down the purchase funnel and give people the ability
Speaker 1: to actually spend their bitcoin, use the Lightning network, reduce
Speaker 1: reduced fees and reduced Walmarts, um you know, credit card
Speaker 1: fees and um the fees that you know for for chargebacks.
Speaker 1: So then you're saying, when you first started the first
Speaker 1: five merchants, it was kind of like, hey, we're giving
Speaker 1: magical Unico points. But now you're leading with bitcoin and
Speaker 1: they're pretty receptive to that. So you've seen like maybe
Speaker 1: you've seen a little shift. Yeah, we now we have
Speaker 1: real data around like around what um what drive sales
Speaker 1: and why people are like interested, and we have so
Speaker 1: many users that have dropped Amazon and started shopping at
Speaker 1: Walmart because they want bitcoin back and then only that,
Speaker 1: like most merchants are have like great return policies, they
Speaker 1: have great shipping policies, and like they don't need overnight
Speaker 1: with everything. They would either have bitcoin back and wait
Speaker 1: an extra day or have bitcoin back and have the
Speaker 1: same selection. And so they're like, how how can I
Speaker 1: earn more bitcoin at every moment? And we're giving them
Speaker 1: a way to earn more bitcoin in more places. You're
Speaker 1: kind of burning the candle from both ends, so to speak,
Speaker 1: because you you're pushing consumer adoption, but really and maybe
Speaker 1: the longer term gain, you're also pushing the merchant adoption,
Speaker 1: which as those two converge together, now we have mass adoption. Exactly,
Speaker 1: you need both in order to have the macro effects
Speaker 1: of driving mass adoption. You can't just have consumer adoption.
Speaker 1: You have to have merchant adoption and consumer adoption at
Speaker 1: the same time. And so I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people thought that it would come with payments because they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: people pay and and Bitcoin is a in a lot
Speaker 1: of case, especially with second layer solutions, a more efficient
Speaker 1: way to pay um and and you know, reduces fraud
Speaker 1: and all these things. But I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people that built these, like early bitcoin payment companies, they
Speaker 1: thought about payments is the wrong the wrong way. They
Speaker 1: thought they just come in and sell it like an
Speaker 1: enterprise tool. But people don't want to spend a currency
Speaker 1: that's going up in value, and you know, historically, how
Speaker 1: do you get someone to pay with bitcoin and use it?
Speaker 1: For one it's got a stable out, So we're I
Speaker 1: think we're far away from that. I think it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, don't give financial advice, but
Speaker 1: I think we're far away from like bitcoin stabling out.
Speaker 1: I think, say how long you're going to say how long?
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're like five years out
Speaker 1: from any sort of stabilization. I'm like pretty long bitcoin
Speaker 1: um I think it's pretty incredible, and I think like
Speaker 1: the world is just starting to adopt it, and and
Speaker 1: institutional investors are deploying massive amounts of capital um and
Speaker 1: and are going to deploy massive amounts of capital. And
Speaker 1: it's a great usset that everybody in the world can
Speaker 1: hypothetically own um and then over time it will become
Speaker 1: a better medium of exchange. The more second layer tools
Speaker 1: that that come out and the more um uh you
Speaker 1: know companies like Lolli that that grow and continue to
Speaker 1: to build great businesses around the bitcoin space. Yeah. So um,
Speaker 1: this was unplanned because we've been trying to do this
Speaker 1: interview for weeks now. But just yesterday I dropped a
Speaker 1: video on YouTube talking about this exact topic, and I
Speaker 1: said almost the exact same things you did, which is like, uh,
Speaker 1: this the the evolution of money, and and really I
Speaker 1: believe we're still in a in a in a collectible
Speaker 1: stage and it was being driven by speculation, and eventually
Speaker 1: we'll get to the store of value stage, and once
Speaker 1: we go to the store value stage, we'll see the
Speaker 1: volatility narrowed down, and then eventually we'll move to the
Speaker 1: medium of exchange and then eventually unit of acout, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And I put about the same timetable. I said, maybe
Speaker 1: in the next two three years we see this more
Speaker 1: stable uh store value, but the media exchange could be
Speaker 1: seven eight years out. It's kind of is what I put.
Speaker 1: So I put that I guess because the kind of
Speaker 1: the kind of recene eyed eye on that. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's tough to perdict. Like we've never seen anything like
Speaker 1: bitcoin before. And it's just like, I mean, I I
Speaker 1: won't pretend like I'm not I'm not like you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have a finance background. I don't know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I studied economics. But we've never seen anything
Speaker 1: like bitcoin. So anyone who like pretends to have like
Speaker 1: a definitive answer of it, it's it's like it will
Speaker 1: stable out when when like it stables out in the
Speaker 1: in the world yourself, Like think about the amount of
Speaker 1: things that have to happen in order for its stable out,
Speaker 1: Like governments are going to adopt it as a reserve
Speaker 1: currency or reserves a store of reserve. We no, I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe some countries have done it in like
Speaker 1: small scale, but we have not even seen like institutions
Speaker 1: like start to invest their money in the bitcoin in
Speaker 1: the masses, and institutions are gonna come first, and then
Speaker 1: it's gonna be countries and then the countries, like whoever
Speaker 1: is the last country is to like adopt it as
Speaker 1: a partial reserve. It's like that's where it gets more exciting.
Speaker 1: If we like look at really like a macroeconomic trend.
Speaker 1: The thing I get really excited about is countries that
Speaker 1: are like, okay, like I'm tired of using the US
Speaker 1: dollar as a store of reserve, which is a lot
Speaker 1: of people realize that, but like most countries reserved, it's
Speaker 1: not gold. They don't have access to gold. They have
Speaker 1: access to US dollars, and that's the most like liquid
Speaker 1: best store of value is the U S dollars. Like
Speaker 1: we this, the biggest stable coin in the world is
Speaker 1: the US dollar and it's not backed by anything but
Speaker 1: the FED. So and like you know g d P.
Speaker 1: So if if like we have that is our is
Speaker 1: the world store of value? If when countries start to
Speaker 1: get smart and they're like, wait a second, I can't
Speaker 1: own gold because there's only a limited quantity and all
Speaker 1: the countries have accounted for it. But I can earn
Speaker 1: bitcoin or I can't own bitcoin. And they start to say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take five percent of my reserve and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put in a bitcoin and that's going to be
Speaker 1: a store of value for me and my country. And
Speaker 1: then other countries start to see other countries doing it
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, I don't want to get you know,
Speaker 1: far behind. I need to put it in. We haven't
Speaker 1: even hit that yet. Like when that happens, like we
Speaker 1: like the bitcoin, a tank is gonna look really really
Speaker 1: fucking cheap when to put the money in, because I
Speaker 1: only people realize like how much money is out there
Speaker 1: in these in these like reserves. And you know the
Speaker 1: countries that wait, you know, like China, the US that
Speaker 1: are sort of they have their own reserve, they have
Speaker 1: the most stable currency. If they wait and they don't
Speaker 1: adopt it, and they get left behind and they say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm only gonna put one percent in or I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put like point point one percent, and they're gonna get
Speaker 1: left behind because the whole world is going to start
Speaker 1: to go to a new reserve system, being bitcoin. And
Speaker 1: unless something comes along that is a better Bitcoin, which
Speaker 1: I have not seen yet, like then I I just
Speaker 1: I don't see Bitcoin be getting replaced um in that
Speaker 1: in that regard. So in the early days, and I
Speaker 1: want to align myself with bitcoin, and I think we
Speaker 1: need to you know, give our consumers bitcoin, and we
Speaker 1: need to teach them and we need you know, more
Speaker 1: people like you that are like you know, doing like
Speaker 1: really high quality like teachings on money, educational services on money,
Speaker 1: and teaching people the importance a bitcoin, the importance of
Speaker 1: products like Lolly to educate people about how to earn bitcoin,
Speaker 1: how to own bitcoin, and and why that's so important
Speaker 1: for the world. Yeah, that's great. I love that that
Speaker 1: whole thing that you just said there, and I agree
Speaker 1: with all of that. I think, um, it's it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of refreshing to hear your perspective because, as
Speaker 1: you said, right, you're not really trying to push the
Speaker 1: payment narrative because it's too early. It's too soon to
Speaker 1: push the human narrative. And so really what you're doing
Speaker 1: with Lolly is really pushing a store of value narrative
Speaker 1: and helping people earn um to save, not to spend um.
Speaker 1: So that's that's a big piece, and I appreciate that perspective.
Speaker 1: I think that's good, um, because we're just not there
Speaker 1: and it's not it's not the time to be spending
Speaker 1: your bitcoin, but it's definitely the time to be stacking
Speaker 1: the stats. Right, So that's the game. Yeah, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the game. So yeah, I like that. I like that
Speaker 1: whole the whole thing that you said I I was
Speaker 1: gonna talk more about the payments at merchants, but I
Speaker 1: think I'm just gonna stop there because is such a
Speaker 1: great place to end it. But yeah, I think everyone
Speaker 1: just needs to be patient. Um, we're seeing the biggest
Speaker 1: shift that the world has ever seen. And it's not
Speaker 1: just like the information. We're talking about money, right, the
Speaker 1: most important thing that we have. UM, And we have
Speaker 1: this game of musical chairs, this game theory. As you say, UM,
Speaker 1: it is gonna be interesting. We have seen I think
Speaker 1: I tweeted about UM. I think it was Hungary did
Speaker 1: like a massive like confiscation of bitcoin in some dark
Speaker 1: market and they have more bitcoin reserves now than gold reserves. Interesting,
Speaker 1: and they didn't acquire it, they seized it. But what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen with it is is going to be the answer.
Speaker 1: But it's just interesting. They have more bitcoin now than
Speaker 1: they have they have gold reserves. We did see last
Speaker 1: year the central banks UM acquired more gold last year
Speaker 1: than any time in history since nine one, which was
Speaker 1: the year that we got off the gold standard, and
Speaker 1: they all started buying buying it back that year. So
Speaker 1: we are seeing a massive amount of gold being purchased
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. Right, it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of time. And still we start to see the sovereigns
Speaker 1: start to stack it. But it's time. It's patients and
Speaker 1: uh just curious. Uh people lose time perspective and so
Speaker 1: UM being a builder such as yourself, UM, to build
Speaker 1: a company, I mean you're looking at years right, like
Speaker 1: you look at this long term perspective, Like what's your
Speaker 1: perspective on building a company? Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: that I was very fortunate. I think to have an
Speaker 1: incredible team that with my last company, and we UM,
Speaker 1: we very much built with this like twenty year time
Speaker 1: frame and we got acquired early and you know we
Speaker 1: have we it made sense to get acquired with the
Speaker 1: last company very early. UM, now we have like lower
Speaker 1: time preference because we already have an acquisition under our belt.
Speaker 1: We we have great investors for this company, like we
Speaker 1: have like you know, people don't like we don't have
Speaker 1: to sell, we have full control of the company. We
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything we don't want to do.
Speaker 1: And we're growing really fast. And so I take just
Speaker 1: like a way longer term approach or like I could
Speaker 1: see myself running this company for the next fifty years.
Speaker 1: Like I don't see anything changing um with how we're
Speaker 1: building this company. And I like to think like that
Speaker 1: long term and because of a lower time preference, it
Speaker 1: gives me the ability to look at Bitcoin like in
Speaker 1: a different way. It gives me the ability to look
Speaker 1: at Lolly in a different way. Um Like I I
Speaker 1: ultimately I think we need to be building like the
Speaker 1: visa on top of bitcoin rails. Um Like, that's the
Speaker 1: sort of scale that I think we can look at,
Speaker 1: like what is the international um visa? Like what's the
Speaker 1: rewards network? How do you change money as a whole?
Speaker 1: And you take a lot of like good things that
Speaker 1: the world has built previously and you build them on
Speaker 1: top of bitcoin in a new way. And like since
Speaker 1: the Internet, we have not seen something as drastic on
Speaker 1: the technology front as Bitcoin, and so we have whole
Speaker 1: who rails to build on top of that. Is this
Speaker 1: like trust less ecosystem that is gonna just like shape
Speaker 1: this whole new wave of innovation? Uh? And I just
Speaker 1: feel like so lucky to be able to like be
Speaker 1: a very early company in that space. Um. And we
Speaker 1: don't need to sell like you know, it's it's something
Speaker 1: like I think some companies. You know, you feel sort
Speaker 1: of like the forcing function of having to sell, but
Speaker 1: like right now, um, you know, I mean I just
Speaker 1: told you our road, not for the next ten years.
Speaker 1: Like we got a lot of work to do, and
Speaker 1: it's like there's so much that can happen and so
Speaker 1: many things that we can do right and wrong along
Speaker 1: that path. But we have a very clear path. I've
Speaker 1: been saying the same path for the last you know,
Speaker 1: eleven months since we launched on Like you know, every
Speaker 1: time I do a podcast, I'm like, I'm very transparent,
Speaker 1: Like people know where we're going and like, if you
Speaker 1: want to try to compete with us, go right ahead.
Speaker 1: But like we're I mean, I feel like we have
Speaker 1: such a clear path, um, and we know the route
Speaker 1: to go, and like, you know, maybe we'll be wrong,
Speaker 1: but um, so far we've been right. Yeah. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Um. I just love to hear from
Speaker 1: someone like yourself, a builder who's done it, and to
Speaker 1: hear that time preference. You know. I uh, my investments
Speaker 1: take a long time. I build business take a long time. Um.
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of real estate developments of those
Speaker 1: products takes six eight years, Um, you know, warm buffets
Speaker 1: own Coca Cola since like the nineteen sixties, and uh
Speaker 1: so you know, real investors, real builders have these long
Speaker 1: time preferences. But I I see so many people getting
Speaker 1: into bitcoin today that are just so impatient and if
Speaker 1: it doesn't move up in six months or a year,
Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. Um And I So I just
Speaker 1: always love to just like, hey, guys, like get some
Speaker 1: perspective on this, like your alex is building over you know,
Speaker 1: fifty year horizon, and so if we're gonna replace this
Speaker 1: monetary system, I mean, it's gonna take time, but but
Speaker 1: what a ride it's going to be, exactly, And we've
Speaker 1: we've had some really supportive investors that UM. Like one
Speaker 1: of the things I always make sure is that the
Speaker 1: investors are are our believers in bitcoin and that they
Speaker 1: do believe in like the long term play. They're not
Speaker 1: trying to just get rich quick and and have like
Speaker 1: a quick return on capital um Like a lot of
Speaker 1: these investors like they want us to I p O.
Speaker 1: They want us to like get to this like d
Speaker 1: mark that we can UM. Like they're not looking for
Speaker 1: like a quick turnaround on this, and they understand like
Speaker 1: the time preference around bitcoin. So we're very much aligned
Speaker 1: with our investors. We have full control of the company. Um,
Speaker 1: and we've been really I mean, it's just like it's
Speaker 1: a great company. So it's also like taking approved in
Speaker 1: business model like Visa, like ebays, these cash back models
Speaker 1: where we don't have to reinvent the wheel. These models work,
Speaker 1: and like I think there's a lot of companies that
Speaker 1: get into the bitcoin space and they don't have a
Speaker 1: real business model and then they have to scramble because
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we need to make money off fees.
Speaker 1: But what if you can't make money off fees anymore?
Speaker 1: Because we can use decentralized e changes and we can
Speaker 1: like you know, trade more easily with like next to
Speaker 1: no fees. Um, how are these companies gonna make money?
Speaker 1: Like we make money? Like we we have these partnerships
Speaker 1: with the merchants. The merchants pay us and it just
Speaker 1: is like a very straightforward business model that we can
Speaker 1: build on a long time frame because we're making money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it all right, Good, Well, we're running out
Speaker 1: of time. I have some more questions, but we'll have
Speaker 1: to save him for another time because I know we're
Speaker 1: kind of running a long and and I'll keep it short,
Speaker 1: but I appreciate you taking the time to speak to us,
Speaker 1: and I recommend everyone to go check out Lolly and
Speaker 1: help push the cooin adoption. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. Hey, if you like this episode of The
Speaker 1: Market Disruptors Podcast, please help us take this to the
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Speaker 1: on The Market Disruptors Podcast.