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Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like

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Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information

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Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.

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Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us

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Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this started. Hello, and welcome to the Market Disruptors Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today i am joined by Alex Aidelman, the co founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Lolli. They are pushing bitcoin adoption and

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Speaker 1: awareness by providing bitcoin as a cash back award. We

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Speaker 1: talk about building companies in the bitcoin space. Is experienced

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Speaker 1: building in other spaces, challenges that he's seen building in

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin space, where we're at in the adoption cycle,

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Speaker 1: since he's at the forefront of it, and so many

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Speaker 1: other good topics. It was a great conversation and let's

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Speaker 1: just go ahead and jump right into it. All right, everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by Alex Ailman. He's the CEO and co

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Speaker 1: founder of Lolly and Lolly is a company that's really

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Speaker 1: trying to push adoption, awareness and adoption in the bitcoin

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Speaker 1: cryptocurrency space. And so someone that I'm really interested to

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Speaker 1: talk to. So welcome Alex. Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah great. Um, I know we tried to line this

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Speaker 1: up a couple of times. I'm glad we finally did. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I've been excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: So for those that don't know, why don't you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about who you are, the products

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Speaker 1: you worked on the past, how you got here, and

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Speaker 1: and what you're doing. Yeah. So yeah, my name is

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Speaker 1: Alex Um. I'm one of the co founders of lolly

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Speaker 1: and also the CEO of Lolli and uh yeah, what

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Speaker 1: we've created is a really simple way for people to

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Speaker 1: earn bitcoin when they shop online as they normally would.

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Speaker 1: So we have over nine merchants on the platform. People

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Speaker 1: are these are These are companies that you shop at

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Speaker 1: every day. There's Walmart, there's price Line, Booking, dot Com,

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Speaker 1: safe Way, Grocery UM, places that people where you can

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Speaker 1: go get your essentials. You get your groceries, you take

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Speaker 1: your travel, um, buy your toilet paper, whatever you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: And we make it really easy for everybody to earn

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Speaker 1: bitcoin when you when you do it. So right now,

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Speaker 1: it's a chrome Safari and Firefox extension, and it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like follows you around and you go to different

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Speaker 1: sites and it pops up and it says, hey, do

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Speaker 1: you want to earn ten percent back in bitcoin? You

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Speaker 1: can also go to lolly dot com and see our

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Speaker 1: nine d plus merchants on the platform and UM earn

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Speaker 1: more bitcoin when you do it. UM. So yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we're we UM started this company after the whole team

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Speaker 1: and I we built a previous company called Cosmic, and

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Speaker 1: we sold into very similar space, UH, into into merchants,

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Speaker 1: and we would go to merchants and we would UM

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Speaker 1: sell the solution to them that let them sell their

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Speaker 1: products anywhere. With this mission of democratizing commerce. UM. We

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Speaker 1: ended up learning about bitcoin a couple of years into

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Speaker 1: building the company and found it just to be this

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Speaker 1: like fascinating technology. UM. The whole team was really drawn

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Speaker 1: into this idea of giving everyone in the world the

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Speaker 1: ability to have the same asset and be able to

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Speaker 1: trade that asset and send it anywhere in the world

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Speaker 1: a cross border, thus democratizing commerce native to a currency.

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Speaker 1: So we all got really excited about it. It never

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Speaker 1: made sense for us as like a payments mechanism with

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Speaker 1: our last company, and we talked to merchants about it.

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Speaker 1: They weren't really excited about it because it didn't really

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Speaker 1: solve their real problems at that moment. So that was

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Speaker 1: sort of where we started, like grew in this in

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Speaker 1: this idea of how do you distribute bitcoin to more people?

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Speaker 1: The next phase is, you know, we end up getting

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Speaker 1: acquired by a company called pop Sugar to come into

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Speaker 1: power one point two billion and retail revenue. A year

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Speaker 1: after that, after we grew quite a bit post acquisition,

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Speaker 1: a bigger company came along, Ebates, which is the largest

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Speaker 1: cash back company in the US. They came along and

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Speaker 1: bought us away from Pop Sugar in a divestiture. So

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Speaker 1: we were there for about a year, got to learn

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Speaker 1: the cashback model, and I was thinking while I was there, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, pitch this to them. How incredible would it

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Speaker 1: be to use the cash back model as a distribution

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Speaker 1: mechanism for bitcoin to teach people about bitcoin and spread

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Speaker 1: it to more people. And the central thesis of that

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Speaker 1: is that most people are not investors, and even more

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Speaker 1: than that, most people are not minors. So how are

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Speaker 1: you going to get mass bitcoin adoption without attracting a

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Speaker 1: whole new wave of consumers. So we said, let's take

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Speaker 1: the consumer that shops online that knows rewards, that once rewards,

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Speaker 1: and let's share a bitcoin with them and introduce them

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Speaker 1: to bitcoin in this new way. Um. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we launched about eleven months ago and it's just

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Speaker 1: been incredible. We're bringing new people into bitcoin. We're bringing

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Speaker 1: I think importantly women into bitcoin. Um there's thirty of

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Speaker 1: our users are female. And and so just shows sort

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Speaker 1: of like early signs of increased adoption by new people

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Speaker 1: that previously did not have bitcoin where we're not um

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Speaker 1: in the space. Yeah, that's awesome. So I think everyone

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Speaker 1: is aware of the system, I suppose, right. So we're

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Speaker 1: earning like actually or rewards back, so whether that's airline

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Speaker 1: miles or target reward points or whatever. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the cash back. Right So now credit cards companies probably

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Speaker 1: started it, but you know now they'll give you cash

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Speaker 1: back instead. But rather than in earning a cash back

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Speaker 1: or a rewards point, you're given bitcoin exactly right. So

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Speaker 1: we're taking something that people are already familiar with. We're

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Speaker 1: not having to convince them that rewards are good, free

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Speaker 1: things are good. Um, But we're also assigning value and

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Speaker 1: having people pay attention to it, not just around price

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Speaker 1: and not just around investing, but around passive earning. And

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Speaker 1: when they can go see that their points are deflating um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and there's this like um or the

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Speaker 1: starry inflating. There's this inflationary nature to two points, whereas

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is like there's only twenty one million of them.

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Speaker 1: You're getting real bitcoin, and that is going up in

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Speaker 1: value because there's scarcity UM and because more people believe

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Speaker 1: in bitcoin and they're learning about the principles of bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Then like so far, like our users have seen bitcoin

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Speaker 1: triple and and they haven't seen the reward triple, and

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Speaker 1: they haven't seen their points triple. They've seen their points

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Speaker 1: stay the same or deflate um in value. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's really important. It's almost like a forcing function

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Speaker 1: of teaching somebody about the importance of bitcoin indirectly, then

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Speaker 1: they value it more and then they become more invested

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Speaker 1: in it um and they're choosing us over cash back programs,

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Speaker 1: which is a really great signal. Yeah, something is uh,

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Speaker 1: something definitely switches in your brain when you start to

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Speaker 1: realize how a deflationary currency works. And so Um, A

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Speaker 1: lot of people do come for the money aspect to

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Speaker 1: make money, but then, like you said, as you see

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Speaker 1: it going up in value, you're like, Wow, what the

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Speaker 1: heck is this? I need to learn more about it.

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Speaker 1: And it's weird because it even changes the way that

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Speaker 1: you want to spend money, the way you look at

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Speaker 1: spending money, Like I look at spending dollars and I

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Speaker 1: don't really think about it, but like, oh no, I'll

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Speaker 1: never spend my bitcoin. So, um, that's interesting. Now. UM,

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Speaker 1: if I guess your primary market right now though it's

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Speaker 1: people that are already aware of bitcoin, is there like

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Speaker 1: an option where people maybe at first want to earn

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Speaker 1: cash back and then they have an option to choose bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Are you only do bitcoin? We only do bitcoin. That's

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Speaker 1: our that's like what we're really focused. And there's plenty

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Speaker 1: of cash back companies out there, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: that there needs to be any more competition on that front.

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Speaker 1: You technically can like you can exchange it for cash,

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Speaker 1: like you can you you get Bitcoin is the default currency,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's really important for our brand to

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Speaker 1: be around bitcoin. Um, but you can get cash and

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Speaker 1: you can do whatever. Your bitcoin is your bitcoin like

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Speaker 1: you can do it whatever you want with it UM

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Speaker 1: and so some you know, very few people have like

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Speaker 1: cashed out when you know, when their bitcoin triple double whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever point that they got into UM. But

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Speaker 1: for the most part, people were turning people into holders,

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Speaker 1: you know, hoddlers and and and that's been like our

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Speaker 1: bread and butter. And do you offer a wallet or

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Speaker 1: do you transfer to the wallet of the address of

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Speaker 1: their choosing so loally is effective a wallet. It's a

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Speaker 1: custodial wallet, and most people are keeping it within the wallet.

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Speaker 1: There's certain like bitcoin maximalists that have earned you know,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars in bitcoin and are you know, feel

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Speaker 1: safer you know, holding their own keys and so you

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Speaker 1: can transfer it out and hold it your own it's

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Speaker 1: really up to you. Um we it's sort of our

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Speaker 1: mission to teach people the importance of self sovereignty and

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Speaker 1: being their own bank and owning their keys. But there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that want other people to manage

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Speaker 1: that for them. And so, you know, we can't come

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Speaker 1: from a payment's background. We come from uh you know,

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Speaker 1: our last company was pc I Level one compliant. We

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Speaker 1: were uh you know, we we had an extreme dedication,

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Speaker 1: you know, partly because we had two in the security,

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Speaker 1: privacy and all of that good stuff. So I think

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Speaker 1: there a lot of people you know, are trusting us

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Speaker 1: with you know that we're we're taking the same principles

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Speaker 1: and protocols and applying them to the bitcoin space that

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Speaker 1: we did uh in the payments world. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: some people don't you know, trust anybody, and they want

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Speaker 1: their own bitcoin, even with like fifteen dollars a bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: So it's really up to the consumer. Their money should

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Speaker 1: be you know, up to them. And that's the whole

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Speaker 1: thing that we have to teach people, is like you

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Speaker 1: should have control of your money and be able to

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Speaker 1: do it with what you want, and you shouldn't um

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Speaker 1: like if you you know, give a bank cash, like

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Speaker 1: it's debatable if that's really your money. Um, the bank's

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Speaker 1: doing all these things with it, they're lending. So we

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Speaker 1: like to think about like the future banking system giving

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Speaker 1: these like attraction layers of earning like lending um cash

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Speaker 1: back these sort of things, and giving it back to

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Speaker 1: the consumer. Uh. I think that like one of the

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Speaker 1: most difficult things about bitcoin, which you can probably relate to,

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Speaker 1: is a lot of people just don't understand what money is,

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Speaker 1: and they don't understand how money works. Thus they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: what what are the issues? Like my cash works, at

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Speaker 1: my you know, at my whole foods, like my credit

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Speaker 1: card works, but they don't understand the back in systems

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Speaker 1: of like how it all works and why and where

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Speaker 1: it breaks down. So bitcoin is like better money. It's

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Speaker 1: more efficient. It's like it functions without needing any any

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Speaker 1: trust in any centralized party is and no data breaches.

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Speaker 1: It's just like this beautiful, incredible piece of code that

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Speaker 1: we all can use, um, you know, hypothetically for this

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Speaker 1: like new money. Yeah, it's crazy. Ye, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: People have no idea how the financial system works. And um,

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Speaker 1: when I do a lot of uh, I do a

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Speaker 1: lot of digging through history to kind of bring some

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Speaker 1: of those lessons back. And it's interesting because when you

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Speaker 1: look back all the way to like the founding of

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Speaker 1: the United States, and you see some of the quotes

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Speaker 1: from Thomas Jefferson, but Benjamin Franklin, but even Henry Ford

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundred said that, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he said that if if the average, if if the

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Speaker 1: Americans understood how the financial system worked there would be

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Speaker 1: a revolution overnight, and like this is like in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds and they got it back then. Um,

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Speaker 1: numerous quotes of you know how much danger will be

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Speaker 1: in if the central banks take over and all these things. Um,

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Speaker 1: but now you know over you know, the last eighty years,

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Speaker 1: hundred years of education has been completely changed and now

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Speaker 1: nobody is aware of it. But hopefully that changes. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious because now you've built your you're a builder. You've

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Speaker 1: built a couple of companies and and a couple of acquisitions.

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Speaker 1: So you built it in like the payments based and

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Speaker 1: in like the reward space, cash back space, and now

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Speaker 1: bitcoin space. Um, how similar is it or how much

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Speaker 1: different is it building in the bitcoin crypto space versus

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Speaker 1: like a traditional like points back or cash back space.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a great question. Um. I mean building

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Speaker 1: a company is build a company, and a second time

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Speaker 1: it's just like it's so different like the second time around. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I love to like share my like musings with

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Speaker 1: they just building companies in general. Um. And so we're

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Speaker 1: like one thing a lot of people don't know is

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Speaker 1: like we're building with the same team as our last company.

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Speaker 1: So we we had an incredible team. We like everyone

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Speaker 1: got the band back together to start this. So having

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Speaker 1: like the trust built into the this next company, we

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Speaker 1: you know, we we built some pretty incredible technology with

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Speaker 1: the last company. We love building together. We all trust

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Speaker 1: each other, We work really well together. And so u

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Speaker 1: of us built our our last company together. UM, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I've taken a lot of like learnings from that.

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Speaker 1: So our day to day is very similar to building

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Speaker 1: any company. UM. You know, you're hiring people, you're you're

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Speaker 1: you're doing that, everything very similar. The customers are a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. I don't think that a lot of people, UM,

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Speaker 1: because so our last company was mainly like an enterprise

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Speaker 1: company that was like our our primary play. And building

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Speaker 1: a consumer company, I think is very different. And building

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Speaker 1: a consumer company in the bitcoin space is also very different. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think that you have to be very very transparent.

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Speaker 1: You have to be you have to tell people exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. You're you have to have you know,

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Speaker 1: we have open source code and like we we we

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Speaker 1: want people to UM, you know, make sure keep us

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Speaker 1: honest about like the things that we're doing, the business

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Speaker 1: practice that we're doing, which be very transparent with our community.

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Speaker 1: Um that said, we get, we get, and we have

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Speaker 1: this extremely engaged community. Like if you follow us on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like people who use Lolly are obsessed

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Speaker 1: with it and they love sacking stacks, they love earning

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Speaker 1: bitcoin and and so when we're building in this like transparent,

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Speaker 1: like I think people love the story when they love

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Speaker 1: to feel like they're building with us, and we because

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Speaker 1: we build so open and we like leverage our community

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Speaker 1: to go get new merchants, which increases the adoption of bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Like every like we're all working together, like they're stacking stats,

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Speaker 1: we're you know, we're getting new merchants. Um. We do

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Speaker 1: this game where we're like, oh, who do you want

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Speaker 1: to see next, and like people are like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: want safe Way, I want um, I want like hotels

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Speaker 1: dot com, I want Booking dot com. And then we

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Speaker 1: go show those two like Booking dot Com and we

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Speaker 1: go get them on board because our community demanded it

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Speaker 1: and they see this like this incredibly engaged community. So

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Speaker 1: building in the bitcoin space, I think it's like really

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Speaker 1: nice because with with with when we were at ebates,

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Speaker 1: one of the things we learned is like the coupon

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Speaker 1: clippers and sort of like this older generation that transition

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Speaker 1: into ebates and was obsessed with cash back is like

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Speaker 1: this rabid customer that like us getting their cash back.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, who doesn't love getting like things for

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Speaker 1: free and like getting castion. And so people who are

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Speaker 1: like getting stats back and people who are getting bitcoin

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Speaker 1: back are like so excited to like get involved. And

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Speaker 1: every time we land a new merchant, it's like one step,

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Speaker 1: you know, forward for the bitcoin community. Because we've been

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Speaker 1: very transparent about our roadmap. It starts with rewards, and

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Speaker 1: then over time, as we as bitcoin transitions from a

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Speaker 1: store of value to a medium of exchange, we're at

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Speaker 1: that point of transition with that, like vertex. And that's

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Speaker 1: what gets so excited when we go drive fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollars in sales for Walmart and I go to them

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, you guys are spending five billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in credit card fees. I don't even know how much

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Speaker 1: you're spending in chargebacks. Why don't you use bitcoin? Why

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Speaker 1: don't you use some sort of digitally native currency with

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Speaker 1: immutability to solve your issue around UM fraud, to solve

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Speaker 1: your issue around like credit card fees. And if we're

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Speaker 1: at that point of purchase, and we have all these

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Speaker 1: consumers that are like you saying, Wally is like the

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Speaker 1: preferred rewards wallet. That gets really exciting. To save people

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Speaker 1: even more money, to bring even more transparency to eat commerce,

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Speaker 1: to purchasing, to commerce in general. Like, that's that's where

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Speaker 1: it gets really exciting. So I personally love building in

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin space. I think it's really exciting, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't think there's like too many markets that have

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Speaker 1: a consumer that is so passionate about the future and

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Speaker 1: this like new world that we're all creating together. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a it's a good thing

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Speaker 1: and a bad thing. I think the reason why the people,

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Speaker 1: the consumers are so passionate is because we're in such

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Speaker 1: an early stage, and so in the early stage, the

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Speaker 1: early adopters are like the true believers, and so the

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Speaker 1: true believers, the early adopters are going to be super

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Speaker 1: passionate about it and are going to want to share it,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's amazing to work with them. The

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Speaker 1: con to that is that it's a small segment of

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Speaker 1: the population. Uh so, um, you know, as that segment

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Speaker 1: of the population grows, maybe some of that enthusiasm. Enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: died down a little bit. But that's an interesting insight

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Speaker 1: that you have and I can that. So people are

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Speaker 1: used to getting rewards back. People like getting cash back better,

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Speaker 1: but we have cash everywhere. This is this is bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and so for the true believers, they really want that.

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Speaker 1: I guess, uh, you know, So on the consumer side,

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Speaker 1: I get that. I'm thinking more about like the new

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Speaker 1: maybe like regulatory side that you have to deal with. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, you're a wallet provider, so now you have

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Speaker 1: like a bitcoin custody to deal with. I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that's more challenging than just sending points back or cash

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Speaker 1: back or is that not much different? Um? I mean

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Speaker 1: it is. But it's like, you know, we work with

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Speaker 1: some like, you know, incredible third parties that like like

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Speaker 1: are you know, they have um like the regulatory licenses

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Speaker 1: that we need, so we can off board a lot

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Speaker 1: of the um the that side of the house to

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Speaker 1: other parties that specialize in custodial solutions and we can

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Speaker 1: really focus on the part of the business that we

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Speaker 1: are uniquely great at. And it's it's it's just as uh,

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's hard to build anything. But like

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Speaker 1: I mean, building our last company was really hard and

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Speaker 1: has our last company has so many challenges that we

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Speaker 1: had to deal with that we don't have to deal

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Speaker 1: with this company. So there's like given, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of a give and take in pros and cons to

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Speaker 1: building any business. And I think, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, including myself, are maybe

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Speaker 1: concerned or at least aware of of It's. See, it

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Speaker 1: seems to be very difficult to do crypto based businesses,

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Speaker 1: bitcoin based businesses in the United States. Um we saw

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Speaker 1: I think just this week even Goldman Sachs Company Circle

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Speaker 1: announced they're moving most of Poloniacs offshore because they just

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Speaker 1: can't deal with US regulations. UM. So we see this

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Speaker 1: happening over and over and over. Um US people being

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Speaker 1: blocked from participating in different different exchanges and things like

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Speaker 1: that as well. So I was just curious if you

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Speaker 1: experienced any roadblocks. But as far as you're concerned, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of about the same for what you're doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much it's a lot of the same. And

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Speaker 1: there I mean, like I guess it's you know, you

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Speaker 1: only know what you don't know. Oh, and like when

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Speaker 1: we started this business. There's so many things that we

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Speaker 1: learned and we had to learn and we've gotten good

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Speaker 1: at so and like also, you know, we've been in

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin space for five years, so it's not like

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Speaker 1: these are new things to us. We we know the regulations,

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Speaker 1: we know how to like we've built in the space

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Uh. And I actually think that payments,

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Speaker 1: the payments space, which is what we're doing, previously had

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Speaker 1: way more regulations and was way more I mean, like

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Speaker 1: our claim to fame in the payments world, which you

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Speaker 1: know doesn't get a lot of press or credit or whatever,

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Speaker 1: is like we survived the Target breach. Um, you know

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Speaker 1: five six years ago. Uh, Target had like the biggest

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Speaker 1: breach of all time, and we had just landed them,

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Speaker 1: and we had to survive all of these penetration tests

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Speaker 1: as like this four person company, and and so that

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Speaker 1: was like a really scared moment. But you you know,

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Speaker 1: we've built an incredibly secure platform. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: You had to survive the penetration tests, so without disposing

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Speaker 1: too much information from targets And basically like when Target

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Speaker 1: got breached, when anyone gets breached, you they have to

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Speaker 1: go test all of their vendors to make sure that

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Speaker 1: everyone is compliant and and then they do advance like

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Speaker 1: security screenings on all the different technologies, and like third

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Speaker 1: parties come in UM to reevaluate which which parties they

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Speaker 1: can keep, which parties they have to get rid of

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Speaker 1: UM because they have revamped security to never have a

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Speaker 1: breach again into like you know, really like lockdown. And

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Speaker 1: as the smallest vendor by far that they had, we

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Speaker 1: were able to survive that breach. And so we only

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Speaker 1: did that because we built the best technology and the

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Speaker 1: most secure technology in the space. And we did that

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Speaker 1: from day one. And there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: I think my team, like our principles are around where

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Speaker 1: we like we will not compromise on privacy, we will

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Speaker 1: not compromise on security, and doesn't matter if it takes

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Speaker 1: longer to build and ship because of that, we just

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Speaker 1: we're we're not willing to give that up. So we

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Speaker 1: took we took those principles with Cosmic. We were rewarded

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Speaker 1: with like by them. And I mean think about like

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Speaker 1: your incentives as a new startup, Like if you get hacked,

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Speaker 1: if you get reached like that, you lose credibility, You

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Speaker 1: lose trust, and so you're incentivized to look out for

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Speaker 1: those sort of things and and to like do what

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Speaker 1: you do what you have to do to like be

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Speaker 1: the most secure company and to not get breached and

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Speaker 1: to not get packed. It seems like most people really

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Speaker 1: today don't don't even really think about their privacy. I

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Speaker 1: think some of these hacks are starting to bring some

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Speaker 1: of that to the forefront. I think it's still a

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Speaker 1: long way off. Um, would you agree with that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I could like snap my fingers and

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Speaker 1: do just about anything, I I one of the one

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Speaker 1: of my first initiatives would be to like have everyone

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Speaker 1: understand why like the importance of privacy and the importance

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Speaker 1: of like their identity. Um. I think that credit card

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Speaker 1: companies and credit companies in general have There's been so

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Speaker 1: many breaches and people just don't understand like all the

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Speaker 1: information that's out there, and it's really it's it's a

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Speaker 1: scary world to live in the dystopian world when all

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Speaker 1: your information is digitized and that information is protected quote

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Speaker 1: unquote protected by third party these like centralized institutions, and

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Speaker 1: there's no trust in like if you're trusting this like

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Speaker 1: institution to like protect you and there's no sort of

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Speaker 1: like um, like, there's no way to protect yourself. It's

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Speaker 1: like a very scary world. So, uh, companies that have

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Speaker 1: done the best I think has been like Apple, Like

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Speaker 1: I trust Apple with my data because even when they're

430
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: subpoenaed by the you know, the Supreme Court, they you know,

431
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: their stance was like, we don't even have access to

432
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: our own customers data like and and they even if

433
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: they wanted to, they couldn't like pull the data. Thus,

434
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: if they got hacked, you can't find data that doesn't

435
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: exist on it on an individual, whereas other companies like

436
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: Facebook have made and Google have made businesses off of

437
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: controlling people's data. It's it's interesting to see how that

438
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: will evolve and how companies will like look at over time,

439
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: how how much they're incentivized to protect data and then

440
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: arguably like not store certain data or tokenize certain data. Um,

441
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: because the biggest companies in the world are the biggest

442
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: honey pots in the world are data like companies that

443
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: have lots of data. Yeah, and I think I think

444
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: the bar has been raised. So I mean, if you're

445
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: if you're Google and you're tracking my Internet usage and

446
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: what I'm looking at online. I mean, that's that's a

447
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: lot that obviously what I'm looking at good, you know,

448
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: incriminate me or could tell a lot about me or whatever.

449
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: But when you're looking at what I'm spending my money on,

450
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: that's even deeper. That's like even a more uh kind

451
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: of a more invasion of privacy because now it's not

452
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: just what I'm thinking about, is what I'm actually doing

453
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: and so um the bar has been raised, and hopefully

454
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: that that brings awareness. But I think just the average

455
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: person wouldn't even think about, like what information is Lolly

456
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: keeping on me? It's all I keeping information on my purchases,

457
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: Like where where is that information going? What happens if

458
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: that gets out? How are you going to use that

459
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: against me? Etcetera. Yeah, So I mean something that we

460
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: like hold like the utmost important to We don't know

461
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: what you're buying. We don't want to know what you're buying.

462
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: We we just need to know the amount you spend

463
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: at each merchant and like and that's how we we

464
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: fulfill like the bitcoint back, so we we actually we

465
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: take a stance and we want to colle collect the

466
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: least amount of information and we do our own audits

467
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: of like could we collect less information? Could we like

468
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: to fulfill the same purpose which is ultimately getting bitcoin

469
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: back on your purchases. So, um, that's the approach we take.

470
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: I think it's we've been rewarded for it so far. Um.

471
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's scary too, Like I think

472
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: users should always ask what's being collected? How is it

473
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: being uh, you know secured? Are people selling data like

474
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: we have? We have no business and in selling data?

475
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: We like, we are not incentivized to sell data. We

476
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: don't want to sell data. We make money when you

477
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: make purchases online, and like that's the way that we

478
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: make money and that is a great business We it's

479
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: a proven business model with ebates, Like we don't need

480
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: to reinvent the wheel on there. We like, we want

481
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: to be a company that like makes money when you

482
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: earn bitcoin. That's it. And we don't need a lot

483
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: of data to to do that. We just need people

484
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: to use Lolly and shop online as they normally would.

485
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: What these like micro amounts that people are getting back,

486
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: Um is their key C requirements on that No k

487
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: y C only onboarding. It's only a minimal k y

488
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: C on the off ramp um, and all we need

489
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: is first name, last name, and email email to do

490
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: on the off ramp to to transfer to U S

491
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: dollars or to transfer to your own bitcoin address because

492
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: the amounts are so low. Yeah, exactly, Okay, got it.

493
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: So there's not like a big issue with like in

494
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: our business, people are buying the people are buying like

495
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: millions of dollars a bitcoin that they can potentially use

496
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: for like you know, let's just say in a worst

497
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: case scenario, terrorism or or some sort of like black connectivity,

498
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: Like people have to go buy like they're buying like

499
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: toilet paper from Walmart or like flights and for like

500
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: hotels dot com, and they're getting good point back. There's

501
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: like not a lot of like fraud that you can commit.

502
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: There's not there's not a lot of incentives for like

503
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: paying a lot of money for something and getting you know,

504
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: let's just say like like our average is like seven

505
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: percent back. So the k y C is actually extremely minimal,

506
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: and we actually don't have to do it on the

507
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: on ramp because we're basically just creating somebody a wallet

508
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: and and then they can start earning. So our our

509
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: whole goal in building Lolly was to create the easiest

510
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: on ramp into bitcoin. And all you need to do

511
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: is like like sign up with your email and you

512
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: can start earning like you just it's it's like takes

513
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Yeah. Yeah, so seven percent is the average.

514
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good number. I was gonna

515
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: ask you about that. Yeah, And I think our highest

516
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: back right now is like, so you can earn a

517
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: lot of what's the harmony, Yeah, some of the digital

518
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: products of like really high bitcoin back. Wow, that's awesome.

519
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: And then you can sort that and figure out which

520
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: ones get the highest percentage back and then try to

521
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: frequent those if that if that fits in your buying schedule.

522
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: M exactly. So, um, you talked about finding merchants before

523
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: you talked about how um you know, you look at

524
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: the community. The community you know it's really voting someone

525
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: up or asking about them, and you kind of go

526
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: to them and use that. I'm curious, you know, when

527
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: you're going to merchants or finding merchants, how is that

528
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: process work out? Like are you going to these merchants

529
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, we're doing this thing where we pay

530
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin back and they're like, what the heck is that?

531
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Or is it like you just say we're doing a

532
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: rewards point and you don't really get into the whole

533
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: bitcoin thing. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I

534
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: think it's changed over the since we launched UM about

535
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago. When I first started

536
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: talking with merchants, UH, the conversation was mainly about points.

537
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: It was like, we're doing a reward system. Doesn't like

538
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: they don't really care what you're giving them points. It

539
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: could be like you know, magical Unicorn points or whatever,

540
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: like they don't really care. It's like there's so many

541
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: point systems out there that as long as you're like

542
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: rewarding somebody in something with something that someone wants, they

543
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: don't really care. So we took that approach because it's like,

544
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: if I were to go convince all these people on

545
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: bitcoin to start, that's a really difficult sales process. UM.

546
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: If I were to convince people on rewards, it's just

547
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: another rewards platform. So we were able to get over

548
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: five hundred merchants on board UM directly on board because

549
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: we're like, look, there's a big market with bitcoin, doesn't

550
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: you don't need to know what bitcoin is other than

551
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: it is a point system. And that's how we positioned it,

552
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: were like bitcoin is just points that's decentralized. It's determined

553
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: by the world, but like like buy buyers, by sellers,

554
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: by investors of what bitcoin is worth at any time,

555
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: whereas points are determined by the institution that is giving

556
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: rewarding the points. And and so they that was like

557
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: a great way to get the first wave, the next

558
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: wave that that came. That's like the next four or

559
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: and fifty that we've gotten over the last year that

560
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: have been sort of the slow removers um. They came

561
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: on board because they saw that bitcoin was able as

562
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: a as a marketing tool, was able to attract so

563
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: many new users to their new shoppers to their their platforms.

564
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: So they saw the success with Walmart with overstock, with

565
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: price line, and that's how we got all this, like

566
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: this new wave of merchants that came on a platform.

567
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: And I think to this day we have more merchant

568
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: adoption than any other bitcoin company in the world because

569
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: we took a very different approach and we gave them

570
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: an incentive to work with a bitcoin company. And now

571
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: I've got like I mean, my friends at Walmart. My

572
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: friends at Sam's Club like there, they like love bitcoin

573
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: because they now have have had almost as forcing function

574
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: to learn about bitcoin because it makes sense for their

575
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 1: business because we're driving sales with their business. Then they

576
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: start to ask the real questions, the good questions about

577
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: what is bitcoin? Why do people want it? It's generating

578
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: real sales for me and my business. Do we need

579
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: to think about more applications. That's when we played this

580
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: like long game wherein five years I come back to

581
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: Walmart and I say, hey, we've generated fifty million dollars

582
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: in sales for you all. What do you think about

583
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: doing pay rally pay with bitcoin and have that that

584
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: go down the purchase funnel and give people the ability

585
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 1: to actually spend their bitcoin, use the Lightning network, reduce

586
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: reduced fees and reduced Walmarts, um you know, credit card

587
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: fees and um the fees that you know for for chargebacks.

588
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: So then you're saying, when you first started the first

589
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: five merchants, it was kind of like, hey, we're giving

590
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: magical Unico points. But now you're leading with bitcoin and

591
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: they're pretty receptive to that. So you've seen like maybe

592
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: you've seen a little shift. Yeah, we now we have

593
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: real data around like around what um what drive sales

594
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: and why people are like interested, and we have so

595
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: many users that have dropped Amazon and started shopping at

596
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: Walmart because they want bitcoin back and then only that,

597
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: like most merchants are have like great return policies, they

598
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: have great shipping policies, and like they don't need overnight

599
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: with everything. They would either have bitcoin back and wait

600
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: an extra day or have bitcoin back and have the

601
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: same selection. And so they're like, how how can I

602
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: earn more bitcoin at every moment? And we're giving them

603
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: a way to earn more bitcoin in more places. You're

604
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: kind of burning the candle from both ends, so to speak,

605
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: because you you're pushing consumer adoption, but really and maybe

606
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: the longer term gain, you're also pushing the merchant adoption,

607
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: which as those two converge together, now we have mass adoption. Exactly,

608
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: you need both in order to have the macro effects

609
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: of driving mass adoption. You can't just have consumer adoption.

610
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: You have to have merchant adoption and consumer adoption at

611
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: the same time. And so I think a lot of

612
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: people thought that it would come with payments because they're like, oh,

613
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: people pay and and Bitcoin is a in a lot

614
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: of case, especially with second layer solutions, a more efficient

615
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: way to pay um and and you know, reduces fraud

616
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: and all these things. But I think a lot of

617
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 1: people that built these, like early bitcoin payment companies, they

618
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: thought about payments is the wrong the wrong way. They

619
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: thought they just come in and sell it like an

620
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: enterprise tool. But people don't want to spend a currency

621
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: that's going up in value, and you know, historically, how

622
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: do you get someone to pay with bitcoin and use it?

623
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: For one it's got a stable out, So we're I

624
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: think we're far away from that. I think it's like,

625
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, don't give financial advice, but

626
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: I think we're far away from like bitcoin stabling out.

627
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: I think, say how long you're going to say how long?

628
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're like five years out

629
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: from any sort of stabilization. I'm like pretty long bitcoin

630
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: um I think it's pretty incredible, and I think like

631
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: the world is just starting to adopt it, and and

632
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: institutional investors are deploying massive amounts of capital um and

633
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: and are going to deploy massive amounts of capital. And

634
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: it's a great usset that everybody in the world can

635
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: hypothetically own um and then over time it will become

636
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: a better medium of exchange. The more second layer tools

637
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: that that come out and the more um uh you

638
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: know companies like Lolli that that grow and continue to

639
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: to build great businesses around the bitcoin space. Yeah. So um,

640
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: this was unplanned because we've been trying to do this

641
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: interview for weeks now. But just yesterday I dropped a

642
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: video on YouTube talking about this exact topic, and I

643
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: said almost the exact same things you did, which is like, uh,

644
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: this the the evolution of money, and and really I

645
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: believe we're still in a in a in a collectible

646
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: stage and it was being driven by speculation, and eventually

647
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: we'll get to the store of value stage, and once

648
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: we go to the store value stage, we'll see the

649
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: volatility narrowed down, and then eventually we'll move to the

650
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: medium of exchange and then eventually unit of acout, etcetera.

651
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: And I put about the same timetable. I said, maybe

652
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: in the next two three years we see this more

653
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: stable uh store value, but the media exchange could be

654
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: seven eight years out. It's kind of is what I put.

655
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: So I put that I guess because the kind of

656
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: the kind of recene eyed eye on that. Yeah, and

657
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: it's tough to perdict. Like we've never seen anything like

658
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: bitcoin before. And it's just like, I mean, I I

659
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: won't pretend like I'm not I'm not like you know,

660
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't have a finance background. I don't know, uh,

661
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, I studied economics. But we've never seen anything

662
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: like bitcoin. So anyone who like pretends to have like

663
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: a definitive answer of it, it's it's like it will

664
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: stable out when when like it stables out in the

665
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: in the world yourself, Like think about the amount of

666
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: things that have to happen in order for its stable out,

667
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: Like governments are going to adopt it as a reserve

668
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: currency or reserves a store of reserve. We no, I don't.

669
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean maybe some countries have done it in like

670
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: small scale, but we have not even seen like institutions

671
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: like start to invest their money in the bitcoin in

672
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: the masses, and institutions are gonna come first, and then

673
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: it's gonna be countries and then the countries, like whoever

674
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: is the last country is to like adopt it as

675
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: a partial reserve. It's like that's where it gets more exciting.

676
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: If we like look at really like a macroeconomic trend.

677
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: The thing I get really excited about is countries that

678
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: are like, okay, like I'm tired of using the US

679
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: dollar as a store of reserve, which is a lot

680
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: of people realize that, but like most countries reserved, it's

681
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: not gold. They don't have access to gold. They have

682
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: access to US dollars, and that's the most like liquid

683
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: best store of value is the U S dollars. Like

684
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: we this, the biggest stable coin in the world is

685
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 1: the US dollar and it's not backed by anything but

686
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: the FED. So and like you know g d P.

687
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: So if if like we have that is our is

688
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: the world store of value? If when countries start to

689
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: get smart and they're like, wait a second, I can't

690
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: own gold because there's only a limited quantity and all

691
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: the countries have accounted for it. But I can earn

692
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: bitcoin or I can't own bitcoin. And they start to say,

693
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take five percent of my reserve and I'm

694
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: gonna put in a bitcoin and that's going to be

695
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: a store of value for me and my country. And

696
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: then other countries start to see other countries doing it

697
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, I don't want to get you know,

698
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: far behind. I need to put it in. We haven't

699
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: even hit that yet. Like when that happens, like we

700
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: like the bitcoin, a tank is gonna look really really

701
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: fucking cheap when to put the money in, because I

702
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: only people realize like how much money is out there

703
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: in these in these like reserves. And you know the

704
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: countries that wait, you know, like China, the US that

705
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: are sort of they have their own reserve, they have

706
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: the most stable currency. If they wait and they don't

707
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: adopt it, and they get left behind and they say, oh,

708
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 1: I'm only gonna put one percent in or I'm gonna

709
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: put like point point one percent, and they're gonna get

710
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: left behind because the whole world is going to start

711
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: to go to a new reserve system, being bitcoin. And

712
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: unless something comes along that is a better Bitcoin, which

713
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: I have not seen yet, like then I I just

714
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: I don't see Bitcoin be getting replaced um in that

715
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: in that regard. So in the early days, and I

716
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: want to align myself with bitcoin, and I think we

717
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: need to you know, give our consumers bitcoin, and we

718
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: need to teach them and we need you know, more

719
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: people like you that are like you know, doing like

720
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: really high quality like teachings on money, educational services on money,

721
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: and teaching people the importance a bitcoin, the importance of

722
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: products like Lolly to educate people about how to earn bitcoin,

723
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: how to own bitcoin, and and why that's so important

724
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: for the world. Yeah, that's great. I love that that

725
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: whole thing that you just said there, and I agree

726
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: with all of that. I think, um, it's it's uh,

727
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of refreshing to hear your perspective because, as

728
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: you said, right, you're not really trying to push the

729
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: payment narrative because it's too early. It's too soon to

730
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: push the human narrative. And so really what you're doing

731
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: with Lolly is really pushing a store of value narrative

732
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: and helping people earn um to save, not to spend um.

733
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: So that's that's a big piece, and I appreciate that perspective.

734
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: I think that's good, um, because we're just not there

735
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: and it's not it's not the time to be spending

736
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: your bitcoin, but it's definitely the time to be stacking

737
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: the stats. Right, So that's the game. Yeah, Yeah, that's

738
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: the game. So yeah, I like that. I like that

739
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: whole the whole thing that you said I I was

740
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: gonna talk more about the payments at merchants, but I

741
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: think I'm just gonna stop there because is such a

742
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: great place to end it. But yeah, I think everyone

743
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: just needs to be patient. Um, we're seeing the biggest

744
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: shift that the world has ever seen. And it's not

745
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: just like the information. We're talking about money, right, the

746
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: most important thing that we have. UM, And we have

747
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: this game of musical chairs, this game theory. As you say, UM,

748
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: it is gonna be interesting. We have seen I think

749
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: I tweeted about UM. I think it was Hungary did

750
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: like a massive like confiscation of bitcoin in some dark

751
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: market and they have more bitcoin reserves now than gold reserves. Interesting,

752
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: and they didn't acquire it, they seized it. But what's

753
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: gonna happen with it is is going to be the answer.

754
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: But it's just interesting. They have more bitcoin now than

755
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: they have they have gold reserves. We did see last

756
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: year the central banks UM acquired more gold last year

757
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: than any time in history since nine one, which was

758
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: the year that we got off the gold standard, and

759
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: they all started buying buying it back that year. So

760
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: we are seeing a massive amount of gold being purchased

761
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. Right, it's just a matter

762
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: of time. And still we start to see the sovereigns

763
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: start to stack it. But it's time. It's patients and

764
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: uh just curious. Uh people lose time perspective and so

765
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: UM being a builder such as yourself, UM, to build

766
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: a company, I mean you're looking at years right, like

767
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: you look at this long term perspective, Like what's your

768
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: perspective on building a company? Yeah, I mean I think

769
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: that I was very fortunate. I think to have an

770
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: incredible team that with my last company, and we UM,

771
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: we very much built with this like twenty year time

772
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: frame and we got acquired early and you know we

773
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: have we it made sense to get acquired with the

774
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: last company very early. UM, now we have like lower

775
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: time preference because we already have an acquisition under our belt.

776
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: We we have great investors for this company, like we

777
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: have like you know, people don't like we don't have

778
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: to sell, we have full control of the company. We

779
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything we don't want to do.

780
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: And we're growing really fast. And so I take just

781
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: like a way longer term approach or like I could

782
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: see myself running this company for the next fifty years.

783
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: Like I don't see anything changing um with how we're

784
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: building this company. And I like to think like that

785
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: long term and because of a lower time preference, it

786
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: gives me the ability to look at Bitcoin like in

787
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: a different way. It gives me the ability to look

788
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: at Lolly in a different way. Um Like I I

789
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: ultimately I think we need to be building like the

790
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: visa on top of bitcoin rails. Um Like, that's the

791
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: sort of scale that I think we can look at,

792
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: like what is the international um visa? Like what's the

793
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: rewards network? How do you change money as a whole?

794
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: And you take a lot of like good things that

795
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: the world has built previously and you build them on

796
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: top of bitcoin in a new way. And like since

797
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: the Internet, we have not seen something as drastic on

798
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: the technology front as Bitcoin, and so we have whole

799
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: who rails to build on top of that. Is this

800
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: like trust less ecosystem that is gonna just like shape

801
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: this whole new wave of innovation? Uh? And I just

802
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: feel like so lucky to be able to like be

803
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: a very early company in that space. Um. And we

804
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: don't need to sell like you know, it's it's something

805
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: like I think some companies. You know, you feel sort

806
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: of like the forcing function of having to sell, but

807
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: like right now, um, you know, I mean I just

808
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: told you our road, not for the next ten years.

809
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: Like we got a lot of work to do, and

810
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: it's like there's so much that can happen and so

811
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: many things that we can do right and wrong along

812
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: that path. But we have a very clear path. I've

813
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: been saying the same path for the last you know,

814
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: eleven months since we launched on Like you know, every

815
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: time I do a podcast, I'm like, I'm very transparent,

816
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: Like people know where we're going and like, if you

817
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: want to try to compete with us, go right ahead.

818
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: But like we're I mean, I feel like we have

819
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: such a clear path, um, and we know the route

820
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: to go, and like, you know, maybe we'll be wrong,

821
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: but um, so far we've been right. Yeah. I love it.

822
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: I love it. Um. I just love to hear from

823
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: someone like yourself, a builder who's done it, and to

824
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: hear that time preference. You know. I uh, my investments

825
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: take a long time. I build business take a long time. Um.

826
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of real estate developments of those

827
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: products takes six eight years, Um, you know, warm buffets

828
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: own Coca Cola since like the nineteen sixties, and uh

829
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: so you know, real investors, real builders have these long

830
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: time preferences. But I I see so many people getting

831
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: into bitcoin today that are just so impatient and if

832
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,919
Speaker 1: it doesn't move up in six months or a year,

833
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. Um And I So I just

834
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: always love to just like, hey, guys, like get some

835
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: perspective on this, like your alex is building over you know,

836
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: fifty year horizon, and so if we're gonna replace this

837
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: monetary system, I mean, it's gonna take time, but but

838
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: what a ride it's going to be, exactly, And we've

839
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: we've had some really supportive investors that UM. Like one

840
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: of the things I always make sure is that the

841
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: investors are are our believers in bitcoin and that they

842
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: do believe in like the long term play. They're not

843
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: trying to just get rich quick and and have like

844
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: a quick return on capital um Like a lot of

845
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: these investors like they want us to I p O.

846
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: They want us to like get to this like d

847
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: mark that we can UM. Like they're not looking for

848
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: like a quick turnaround on this, and they understand like

849
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: the time preference around bitcoin. So we're very much aligned

850
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 1: with our investors. We have full control of the company. Um,

851
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: and we've been really I mean, it's just like it's

852
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: a great company. So it's also like taking approved in

853
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: business model like Visa, like ebays, these cash back models

854
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: where we don't have to reinvent the wheel. These models work,

855
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: and like I think there's a lot of companies that

856
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: get into the bitcoin space and they don't have a

857
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: real business model and then they have to scramble because

858
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we need to make money off fees.

859
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: But what if you can't make money off fees anymore?

860
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: Because we can use decentralized e changes and we can

861
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: like you know, trade more easily with like next to

862
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: no fees. Um, how are these companies gonna make money?

863
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: Like we make money? Like we we have these partnerships

864
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: with the merchants. The merchants pay us and it just

865
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: is like a very straightforward business model that we can

866
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: build on a long time frame because we're making money. Yeah,

867
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: I love it all right, Good, Well, we're running out

868
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: of time. I have some more questions, but we'll have

869
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: to save him for another time because I know we're

870
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: kind of running a long and and I'll keep it short,

871
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: but I appreciate you taking the time to speak to us,

872
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: and I recommend everyone to go check out Lolly and

873
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: help push the cooin adoption. Thank you so much for

874
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: having me. Hey, if you like this episode of The

875
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: Market Disruptors Podcast, please help us take this to the

876
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: top of the podcast charts. Just please do me a

877
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: favor and rate, review and subscribe. Taking fifteen seconds to

878
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: just leave a quick review goes a long way and

879
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: helping us reach more people and disrupt more markets. I

880
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: really appreciate you listening and I'll see you next time

881
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: on The Market Disruptors Podcast.