Speaker 1: The first trial involving the Wagner family for the Rodan
Speaker 1: Family massacre has begun. George Wagner, the fourth is the
Speaker 1: first to go on trial. That thirty year old will
Speaker 1: face a jury for the first time. When opening statements
Speaker 1: begin around nine o'clock, Jake Wagner said that he rearranged
Speaker 1: Hannah May's body so that her newborn baby could breastfeed
Speaker 1: off of her now a dying or dead mother. They
Speaker 1: were thinking that if they wiped out the entire Rodan family,
Speaker 1: there would be no one left to battle them for
Speaker 1: custody of this child. Billy came running out of the
Speaker 1: residence saying, I just shot my best friend. I just
Speaker 1: shot my best friend. This is the Pipes and Massacre
Speaker 1: trials begin Season four, Episode two. Opening statements. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
Speaker 1: a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. It's a gray morning in Waverley, Ohio, and
Speaker 1: you can feel the first hint of fall weather starting
Speaker 1: to seep into the air. Everyone has filed inside the
Speaker 1: courtroom by nine am. Good morning. This is the case
Speaker 1: of State of Ohio Plaintiff versus George Washington. Wager the
Speaker 1: fourth defended. Today is September twelve, twenty twenty two, and
Speaker 1: we continue proceedings in the trial of this matter. With
Speaker 1: multiple attorneys, sheriff's deputies, and a scattering of television monitors
Speaker 1: throughout the courtroom. It feels small. Darkwood walls and a
Speaker 1: thick red carpet make it seem even more so. There
Speaker 1: is a large hand painted mural on the wall behind
Speaker 1: Judge Deering that says semper justicia. It's Latin and means
Speaker 1: justice for all. Present today is a defendant with his
Speaker 1: attorneys John Parker and Richard Nash. For statable hi it
Speaker 1: was represented by Rob Junk, prosecuting attorney, and special prosecutors
Speaker 1: Andrew at Kanepa and Andrew Wilson. It's important to note
Speaker 1: that George Wagner the Fourth, currently on trial, and his father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty
Speaker 1: to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth sits between his lawyers, motionless,
Speaker 1: staring straight ahead as the judge instructs the jury. He
Speaker 1: looks thinner than he did over the summer and has
Speaker 1: lost some hair as well. There's no one in court
Speaker 1: to support George Wagner, and the media is allocated to
Speaker 1: his side of the courtroom. Aanette Levy is one of
Speaker 1: the reporters, kind of goes to this whole thing of
Speaker 1: how they were kind of insular and operating as one unit.
Speaker 1: There's nobody there to support George Wagner the fourth and
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad when you think about it. Courtney
Speaker 1: and I were actually sitting behind him. Then kind of
Speaker 1: occurred to us after that if you had access to
Speaker 1: the fee, that it might appear that we were in
Speaker 1: support of the Wagners just by being there, which gave
Speaker 1: us some pause. It's really hard if you're in that
Speaker 1: courtroom if you're not sitting up front to hear at times,
Speaker 1: so getting a front row seat is actually better. And
Speaker 1: nobody should read anything into people sitting behind George Wagner.
Speaker 1: It's not a show of support. It's just a matter
Speaker 1: of logistics and where we were told to sit. Today,
Speaker 1: the court will give some preliminary instructions to the jury,
Speaker 1: after which there will be opening statements by counsel. These
Speaker 1: opening statements of counsel are not evidence, but they are
Speaker 1: a preview of the claims of each party and They
Speaker 1: are designed to help you follow the evidence as it
Speaker 1: is presented. Because there will be no witnesses called to
Speaker 1: the stand today. The video feed to media outside the
Speaker 1: courtroom is up and running for people at home. Basically,
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office will be giving the jury members kind
Speaker 1: of the roadmap but where they're taking this investigation to
Speaker 1: prove their case. That's exactly what opening statement is. It's
Speaker 1: a roadmap letting the jury know what they think they
Speaker 1: can prove, where they think their case is going to go.
Speaker 1: The important thing about opening statement is do not overpromise.
Speaker 1: Lead prosecuting Attorney Angie Kinnepa gets up to address the jury.
Speaker 1: She has blonde shoulder lenk hair with bangs, and is
Speaker 1: wearing a smart, conservative navy blue suit. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: why we are here. We are here, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: jury because this defended George Wagner the Fourth aka George
Speaker 1: Wagner and his brother Edward J. Wagner, Jacob Wagner and
Speaker 1: his father George Wagner Third, also known as Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: murdered eight people who did not deserve to die and
Speaker 1: went back to sinking. Kneppa speaks with an air of
Speaker 1: confidence and directness. The question that has been asked the
Speaker 1: most over the past six and a half years is
Speaker 1: why why did four individuals plot to kill eight members
Speaker 1: of another family? And I think you will be disappointed
Speaker 1: to learn that there is no good reason these murders
Speaker 1: happened after a period of three months of planning and
Speaker 1: plotting and purchasing and preparing and executing eight individuals of
Speaker 1: a family. And in part you will learn his mother,
Speaker 1: who helped in the planning and plotting of this. You
Speaker 1: will learn that the defendants knew that before they walk
Speaker 1: out of the door that night to kill these individuals,
Speaker 1: that there might be other people there, and they all
Speaker 1: agree those people would have to be killed two regardless
Speaker 1: of the fact that they literally have no issue with
Speaker 1: any of those other individuals. As Andrew Kneppa talks about
Speaker 1: the collateral damage of the night of the murders, George
Speaker 1: bows his head ever so slightly and looks down. They
Speaker 1: were willing to kill indiscriminately with no reason. At this
Speaker 1: point she locks in with the jury. Caneppa spends almost
Speaker 1: twenty minutes detailing the last known moments of the Roden family.
Speaker 1: Chris Roden, Senior was forty years old at the time
Speaker 1: of his death. You see here that on April twenty
Speaker 1: first of twenty sixteen, his last outgoing text was to
Speaker 1: Dana Roden. Dana Roden was thirty seven years old at
Speaker 1: the time she was killed, and she was last seen
Speaker 1: on video surveillance at the People's once stop having a
Speaker 1: conversation with her friend and co worker, Frankie Rodin was
Speaker 1: twenty years old. The last activity we see on his phone,
Speaker 1: just before eleven PM, he takes a picture of both
Speaker 1: of his children sleeping. Hannah May Roden had just turned
Speaker 1: nineteen a few weeks prior to her death. Her last
Speaker 1: outgoing contact was a text to Corey Holdron. You may
Speaker 1: recall Corey Holdron was Hannah May's boyfriend at the time
Speaker 1: of the murders. There were two things that were kind
Speaker 1: of chilling about that. One was that the boyfriend was
Speaker 1: supposed to go over there and hang out, and his
Speaker 1: sister had some kind of plumbing problem or something, so
Speaker 1: he couldn't come over, and that probably saved his life.
Speaker 1: The other thing was that Chris Junior had friends over
Speaker 1: all the time, but he was grounded, and he would
Speaker 1: have had a friend over sleeping over, hanging out playing
Speaker 1: video games or whatever. But he was grounded so his
Speaker 1: friend couldn't come over, and that saved his friend's life.
Speaker 1: They were going to kill anybody as collateral damage that
Speaker 1: were in those trailers. Here's Stephanie. I have to say,
Speaker 1: hearing the details about each victim's final moments was a
Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle we'd never heard before. Just knowing
Speaker 1: that Corey Holdron was the last person that Hanname wrote
Speaker 1: and texted before the murders is kind of a chilling detail.
Speaker 1: The idea that little Chris Junior, who was again just
Speaker 1: a little teenager having a buddy over for a sleepover
Speaker 1: where they were going to play video games all night.
Speaker 1: Who can't relate to that. It was very chilling. When
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa goes on to say what could have been
Speaker 1: that night? There could have been even more victims indiscriminately
Speaker 1: taken with this tragedy. Now we're hearing these details from
Speaker 1: the prosecution that we just hadn't known before. Angie Kneppa,
Speaker 1: I think, particularly in this section of her opening statement,
Speaker 1: it was really incredibly effective. She is painting a picture
Speaker 1: of the moments in these victims lives and you can
Speaker 1: see them, and you can place yourselves in their shoes,
Speaker 1: whether it's the last known thing they did, was taking
Speaker 1: a picture of their kids, or was having a conversation
Speaker 1: with a co worker while stopping by on an errand
Speaker 1: after work. The fact that people's lives were taken purely
Speaker 1: as collateral damage the Wagners, according to everything that's been said,
Speaker 1: we're willing to take those quote extra lives. So just
Speaker 1: by happenstance. Gary Rodin was there that night, and we
Speaker 1: have interviewed several people over the years who have said,
Speaker 1: you know, Gary would frequently do that. He would just
Speaker 1: pop by Chris Siors and crash for a night or two,
Speaker 1: sometimes even up to a week, and then months would
Speaker 1: go by where he wouldn't And again, wrong is wrong time.
Speaker 1: Kanepa alines the entire trajectory of Jake and Hannah's relationship.
Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden, her crime was not returning the love
Speaker 1: of Jake Wagner, not submitting to the control of the Wagners.
Speaker 1: And you will learn that that is the character of
Speaker 1: this family was very controlling of any women who came
Speaker 1: into their circle. It kind of starts with a love story.
Speaker 1: If you want to call that. A very young teenage girl,
Speaker 1: Hannah May Roden age thirteen at the time, was at
Speaker 1: the Pipe County Fairgrounds and somebody introduced her to Jacob.
Speaker 1: Two years later, Hannah Rodin is pregnant with the daughter
Speaker 1: she shares with Jake Wagner. There are text messages from
Speaker 1: Jake to Hannah May which state quote I'll take and
Speaker 1: if I have to buy force? This is was still
Speaker 1: inside of Hannahme's womb. Hannahme gives birth to the daughter
Speaker 1: she shares with Jake Wagner in twenty thirteen and eventually
Speaker 1: goes to live with the Wagner's, but things go south quickly.
Speaker 1: Angela wants a little girl to call her mom even
Speaker 1: when Hanname is there. It's all too much for Hannah.
Speaker 1: Hearing these text messages really puts to light the fact
Speaker 1: that Hanname Rodin was clearly in an abusive relationship with
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. And sometimes when you're in an abusive relationship,
Speaker 1: you get desensitized to bad behavior, and in her case,
Speaker 1: she was wise enough and brave enough to get out
Speaker 1: of that relationship despite her young age, and also she
Speaker 1: was very fortunate to have a loving family in a
Speaker 1: safe place to land with her family. Not everybody has that,
Speaker 1: And I think that's the double whammy here is that
Speaker 1: she did everything correctly. She got out of an abusive situation,
Speaker 1: She tried to make things better, try to keep things
Speaker 1: cool with the father of her daughter. Her family justifiably
Speaker 1: looked out for her and protected her, and yet even
Speaker 1: that didn't offer enough safety for any of them. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Hannah May leaves Jake in early twenty fifteen. She calls
Speaker 1: her father asks for him to come get her. Jacob
Speaker 1: choked her and she could not handle the controlling nature
Speaker 1: of not just Jake, but also the family. April twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, after the news breaks about the murders, James
Speaker 1: Manley goes to check in on his sister Dana Roden,
Speaker 1: his nephew Little Chris, and niece Hannah Me. When he
Speaker 1: gets there, he also notices that the door is a jar.
Speaker 1: He went back to her bedroom. She was covered up,
Speaker 1: so he didn't know if she was in the bed.
Speaker 1: He felt around in the bed until he could feel
Speaker 1: that her body was there, and he lifted the pillow
Speaker 1: that was covering her face. She was deceased, shot in
Speaker 1: the head he goes to check on Hannah May. He
Speaker 1: will tell you that he heard the by baild baby crying,
Speaker 1: but he could not bring himself to go back and
Speaker 1: see anything more. Canepa brings up Jake's confession of what
Speaker 1: happened that night. Stephanie and I speak with Angeanette Levy.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most stunning things out of
Speaker 1: opening statements that I heard was the fact that Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner told the prosecutors that he was in Dana Roden's house,
Speaker 1: where Hannah May and Chris Junior were also in the home,
Speaker 1: and that he could see Dana Rodin was still awake
Speaker 1: and had the light from her cell phone up to
Speaker 1: her face. And then he said that he was standing
Speaker 1: kind of by Dana Roden's bedroom, and Hannah Roden's bedroom
Speaker 1: was nearby, and the newborn baby started crying, and so
Speaker 1: he didn't want Dana Rodin getting up or waking up
Speaker 1: or what have you to help with the baby, so
Speaker 1: he stepped into the room and shot her in the head,
Speaker 1: and then went over to Hannah May's room, and Hannah
Speaker 1: May turned and according to Angie Kaneppa, Jake believes she
Speaker 1: saw him but didn't necessarily recognize him. He wasn't sure
Speaker 1: of that, and then he then shot her. And it's
Speaker 1: so flabbergasting to me the fact that Angie Kneppa said
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner said that he rearranged Hannah May's body so
Speaker 1: that her newborn baby could breastfeed, if that's even possible
Speaker 1: off of her now a dying or dead mother. I
Speaker 1: feel like you couldn't make that up. And keep in mind,
Speaker 1: this was after he'd already killed, allegedly or helped kill,
Speaker 1: I should say, according to Jake, Christine, you're and Gary.
Speaker 1: It is the detail that I think was the most
Speaker 1: haunting takeaway from opening statements. It's such a disturbing detail
Speaker 1: on top of so many disturbing details. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The
Speaker 1: tragic arc of Jake and Hannah's romance highlights how intertwined
Speaker 1: the families were, both in love and in business. It
Speaker 1: turns out it was also the undoing of the Wagners.
Speaker 1: When Jake Wagner was initially interviewed pretty early in the investigation,
Speaker 1: he indicated that everything was just dandy between he and
Speaker 1: Hannah May. A large part of the prosecution's case revolves
Speaker 1: around texts and Facebook messages that paint anything but a
Speaker 1: rosy picture of Jake and Hannah's battle over their daughter.
Speaker 1: The media letches onto it immediately. Prosecutors said the Wagners
Speaker 1: were of a chilling statement that Hannah May Roden made
Speaker 1: on social media about that little girl's custody just weeks
Speaker 1: before the killings. In Facebook messages their girls mom, Hannah
Speaker 1: said the only way he would get custody is if quote,
Speaker 1: they kill me. Prosecutors said that Wagners knew about that
Speaker 1: private social media post because they had stolen the passwords
Speaker 1: of the person that Hannah Roden sent that message to. Additionally,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner was interviewed and he indicated that he did
Speaker 1: not have the phone that he had at the time
Speaker 1: of the homicides because he kept trying to call Chris
Speaker 1: Senior because Chris Senior was his best friend, and after
Speaker 1: the homicides, he kept trying to call him and he
Speaker 1: finally got frustrated and upset one day and broke his phone. Well,
Speaker 1: that was a good story, but it wasn't true because
Speaker 1: we have phone records that indicate he never once tried
Speaker 1: to call Chris Senior. According to Kneppa, Jacol testified to
Speaker 1: the complicated and deep relationship Billy had with Chris Senior.
Speaker 1: Here again, Stephanie, We've always heard that Billy Wagner and
Speaker 1: Chris Senior. You know, they knew each other for a
Speaker 1: long time. They might have done some ancillary work stuff together,
Speaker 1: but best friends. Never have I heard that Billy Wagner
Speaker 1: was his best bud. I too, have never heard the
Speaker 1: term best friends as it relates to Billy Wagner and
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior. However, we do know there is a past,
Speaker 1: there are some business dealings, There are grandpas to the
Speaker 1: same baby. That's fair in this moment. During the opening statement,
Speaker 1: Angrew Kneppa then goes on to give a preview of
Speaker 1: what Jake will say in his testimony, including some details
Speaker 1: like the night of the murder, when Billy was at
Speaker 1: Chris Senior's house before Chris was aware of what was
Speaker 1: going on. Billy asked Chris Senior to call him because quote,
Speaker 1: he couldn't find his phone. When an actuality, all of
Speaker 1: the Wagner's phones were back with Angela, so that when
Speaker 1: Chris Senior called Billy's phone or any of the other
Speaker 1: phones they would register at being at home. Even just
Speaker 1: having the foresight to put that part of the plan
Speaker 1: in place, they were smart enough to know that these
Speaker 1: phones will be tracked and they will ping someplace, and
Speaker 1: that will provide them with an alibi. Angie Caneppa continues,
Speaker 1: Jake will tell you that Billy came running out of
Speaker 1: the residence and was hysterical, saying, I just shot my
Speaker 1: best friend. I just shot my best friend, he will say.
Speaker 1: At that point, he and George tried to calm Billy down,
Speaker 1: and George and Billy drug the bodies of Gary Rowden
Speaker 1: and Chris Senior back to the bedroom of Chris Senior,
Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy and Chris Senior's home. There was a long
Speaker 1: path of blood drag marks from where apparently he and
Speaker 1: Gary Roden had been dragged back into a back bedroom
Speaker 1: and essentially thrown on top of each other and then
Speaker 1: a comforter or thrown on top of them. You know,
Speaker 1: they were just thrown away like trash. Chris Senior was
Speaker 1: shot just in that general area nine times, so there
Speaker 1: was just a long path of blood. There were so
Speaker 1: many familial roots and conflicting feelings between the two families,
Speaker 1: but why the totality of the crime the entire family.
Speaker 1: Early in her statement, Antioquanepa alludes to the collateral damage
Speaker 1: and indiscriminate killing in this focused custody battle over Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner and Hannahme's shared daughter. Chris Roden Senior was one
Speaker 1: of the intended targets of the Wagners. That's because he
Speaker 1: was the patriarch of the family and they considered basically
Speaker 1: that if they kind of got rid of him, that
Speaker 1: the structure of the family would fall. And they also
Speaker 1: knew that if they only killed Hannah May that he
Speaker 1: would know who did it, and he would that would
Speaker 1: either get them arrested or he would retaliate. Gary Roden
Speaker 1: was killed simply because he was there. As Kneppa goes
Speaker 1: through the entire family at the defense as council table,
Speaker 1: George Wagner the fourth looks down for this entire part
Speaker 1: of the statement. Kenneth Roden and Chris Roden Senior were
Speaker 1: very close to each other. There had been prior occasions
Speaker 1: where Chris Roden had been hurt and Kenneth retaliated on
Speaker 1: his behalf. So the Wagners very much knew that about Kenneth,
Speaker 1: and so they decided that he had to be killed
Speaker 1: because again, he would know who it was. We have
Speaker 1: kind of been working under the narrative that whoever did
Speaker 1: this wanted to wipe out the entire bloodline, frankly, or
Speaker 1: anybody who would potentially lay claim to custody of the
Speaker 1: then three year old. But it also sounds like some
Speaker 1: of the victims were targeted because they feared retribution. Kenneth
Speaker 1: Rowden has always been a confusing crime scene to me
Speaker 1: because we never understood why, And maybe now it makes
Speaker 1: sense that the idea was he was very very close
Speaker 1: with Chris Senior, and he was very close to the
Speaker 1: entire family, and had he known that anybody had ill
Speaker 1: will toward his family that, you know, he would have
Speaker 1: taken retribution. That makes sense to me, but I hadn't
Speaker 1: thought of it before. I always thought they would have
Speaker 1: been wiped out because they would have possibly known who
Speaker 1: did it, not necessarily because of the retribution or revenge
Speaker 1: aspect of it. It would have just been like, oh,
Speaker 1: you have knowledge that you knew you were going to
Speaker 1: put the point the cops at us. But they make
Speaker 1: it sound like no, Kenneth would have maybe taken matters
Speaker 1: into his own hands and taken care of this himself.
Speaker 1: The fact that Hannah Hazel. I always thought she was
Speaker 1: killed because of Charlie Gillie, because of a jealousy type
Speaker 1: thing there. But apparently they say she was just collateral damage,
Speaker 1: that she was killed because she was there. Gary Roden
Speaker 1: was killed because he was there. The logic doesn't rock
Speaker 1: with me. She was Frankie's fiance. Of course she was
Speaker 1: going to be there. Seemed like it was Dana's house.
Speaker 1: Of course she was going to be there. I really
Speaker 1: I can't logically compute it. I think it's more like
Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel wasn't a target, but it was almost like
Speaker 1: they had to kill her because she was there. You
Speaker 1: can't go in and kill Frankie and not kill her
Speaker 1: and said that to me. It's just not that it
Speaker 1: ever makes sense to kill anybody. But that's just even
Speaker 1: more senseless. If they were fearing that the Roden family
Speaker 1: would want to take matters into their own hands, not
Speaker 1: that they said that, but it was intimated that they
Speaker 1: feared retribution. That also shows how much they were loved.
Speaker 1: They were all steeped in so much loving history that yeah,
Speaker 1: it speaks to the fact that they were all very close.
Speaker 1: The motive to kill Dana Rodin always seemed murky. And
Speaker 1: how about the fact that Dana Rodin was considered not
Speaker 1: a target, which I find really strange because how could
Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target because she could
Speaker 1: have possibly laid claim to She would have known about
Speaker 1: the custody battle, and she was going to be home
Speaker 1: that night. I mean maybe if she had worked an
Speaker 1: overnight shift. We knew she worked a later shift, a
Speaker 1: double that day and got home later. But how could
Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target if they had
Speaker 1: already said, you know, even if Chris Junior had a
Speaker 1: friend over, they would have killed that person. They would
Speaker 1: have killed whoever was there. So how was Dana Rodin
Speaker 1: not an intended target? According to Kneppa, Dana was privy
Speaker 1: to the threat Dick made towards Hannah. Dana couldn't be
Speaker 1: left alive to reveal what she knew. When Chris Senior
Speaker 1: and Gary's bodies are found. Another persistent theme in our
Speaker 1: investigation was discovered. Bobby Joe will tell you that on
Speaker 1: this particular morning, she and Billie and Emma Morgan drove
Speaker 1: up to that location. Emma and Billy Morgan were a
Speaker 1: married couple living with Bobby Joe Manley. They would come
Speaker 1: to Chris Senior's house in the morning to help feed
Speaker 1: his animals. Typically, Chris Senior is not there when they
Speaker 1: arrive because he gets up early and he's already on
Speaker 1: his way to Big Bear Lake where he works every day.
Speaker 1: He operated heavy equipment and did construction, built decks and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. You will learn that they immediately thought
Speaker 1: something was amiss because Chris Senior's truck was still at
Speaker 1: the house and both of the inside dogs were sitting
Speaker 1: outside of the house on the front porch. Gary Roden
Speaker 1: was thirty eight when he was killed. He was from
Speaker 1: Kentucky and would come up to piked In and live
Speaker 1: with Chris Senior on and off. Gary also worked at
Speaker 1: Big Bear Lake. Billy went to go start feeding the animals.
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe goes up to the house to see what's
Speaker 1: going on with Chris. Why the dogs are out all
Speaker 1: that stuff? The door is locked. That's also unusual. They
Speaker 1: obviously were not prepared for what they saw when they
Speaker 1: entered that residence. When they found Chris Sor, he was
Speaker 1: wearing a big bear Lake sweatshirt. They quickly exited and
Speaker 1: she went to the car where Emma Morgan they call
Speaker 1: her Emmy, was still seated, and she retrieved her telephone
Speaker 1: and made a phone call to nine one one. Another
Speaker 1: loose end in the case has brought up as well.
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa mentions what she calls a quote false exculpatory story.
Speaker 1: It's a story about a big drug deal in California
Speaker 1: that Billy Wagner and Chris Rodinorre supposed to be a
Speaker 1: part of. So part of this alleged deal was a
Speaker 1: man named Skid Montgomery. It's important to note that we
Speaker 1: are not saying Skid Montgomery has any drug related convictions,
Speaker 1: nor are we saying he's implicated in any way into
Speaker 1: the murders. This is simply a reporting of what was
Speaker 1: brought up in open court. After the murders, a local
Speaker 1: man named Jeff Tackett got a visit from his friend
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. He said, after the homicides, Billy came to
Speaker 1: his home and stood at the end of the driveway
Speaker 1: and talked to him and said that he couldn't stand himself.
Speaker 1: He also told a story about Skid Montgomery one of
Speaker 1: the wealthiest and most powerful people in Pike County, possibly
Speaker 1: arranging the road in murders because Chris Senior cut Skid
Speaker 1: out of a drug deal. And we've heard no evidence
Speaker 1: that Chris Senior and Skid Montgomery were actually involved in
Speaker 1: drug dealing together, but we've heard that Billy and Chris
Speaker 1: Senior were business associates. We've also gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: tips from listeners in and around the area who keep
Speaker 1: pointing to Skid Montgomery as something relevant. The prosecution also
Speaker 1: seems to be rolling out the cartel as part of
Speaker 1: their case. Whoever killed these individuals were very intimate with
Speaker 1: both the personal habits of the Rodents and the residences themselves.
Speaker 1: I told you that Dana Rodin and Hannime and little
Speaker 1: Chris had just moved into that residence less than thirty
Speaker 1: days prior, so you had to know them well enough
Speaker 1: to know that, right. This kind of gets rid of
Speaker 1: the drug cartel idea, you know, and other individuals who
Speaker 1: just wouldn't know that. So here's Billy putting out this
Speaker 1: new theory, and it's caught enough wind that even we've
Speaker 1: heard about it. I'm curious what the connection to this
Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery is what do you think about the fact
Speaker 1: that Anti Kaneppa is sort of eliminating any of the
Speaker 1: theories regarding the cartel. I think that what she's doing
Speaker 1: is a good job at her job as a prosecutor.
Speaker 1: She's laying forth a narrative and she wants to make
Speaker 1: sure there is no other focus on anything but what
Speaker 1: she is saying is true and that it was the
Speaker 1: Wagners and the Wagners alone. Is it the full story?
Speaker 1: We'll find out. Much has been made of the fact
Speaker 1: that the opening statements are very long. Keep in mind,
Speaker 1: there's so much to cover and it has to be
Speaker 1: very thorough. She has to really take her time and
Speaker 1: lay it all out there because one misstep could jeopardize
Speaker 1: the whole case. All in all, Angie Kneppa's opening statement
Speaker 1: runs nearly four hours long. The reaction from the media
Speaker 1: swift and none too kind. Let's talk about the prosecution
Speaker 1: and the storytelling, because we've had legally and on as
Speaker 1: on and viewers has said the opening statement of the
Speaker 1: prosecution was very lengthy, somewhat confusing, pretty tedious about the details.
Speaker 1: It wasn't what I would have done, which is to
Speaker 1: come out say what the crime was, tell them what
Speaker 1: the crime was, who the victims were, who you think
Speaker 1: the perpetrators are. I thought it could have been done
Speaker 1: a much more streamlined and more effectively. I was thinking
Speaker 1: to myself, Oh my god, are these jurors going to
Speaker 1: be confused? But had to be overwhelming. Much has been
Speaker 1: made about Angie Kneppo's maybe being too long winded, or
Speaker 1: she's giving so much information that to your earlier point,
Speaker 1: it would be really hard for a juror to kind
Speaker 1: of track all of these details. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day. Mike Allen had a different take. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of people lawyers too that I see, had said, Man,
Speaker 1: how could she had given such a long opening statement?
Speaker 1: You know, she probably lost the jury, and opening statements
Speaker 1: are never usually that long from the prosecutor. However, in
Speaker 1: this case, there is so that she had to unpack
Speaker 1: and tell that jury. And I was there that day,
Speaker 1: I watched it. She did not lose that jury. She didn't.
Speaker 1: They were just transfixed by what she was telling. Now
Speaker 1: let's stop here for another break. Angie Caneppa may already
Speaker 1: be planting seeds. One of the more riveting aspects of
Speaker 1: the opening statement is about the evidence the jury will
Speaker 1: see in coming weeks. On the day after the Wagoners
Speaker 1: left for Alaska, search warrants were already in place and
Speaker 1: police were combing the property for evidence. A neighbor approached
Speaker 1: them and offered up a tip. The Wagner family had
Speaker 1: put all of their belongings and trailers and parked them
Speaker 1: off Route forty one. When please search these trailers, they
Speaker 1: found a gold mine in a plastic tub labeled quote
Speaker 1: important things. They found custody documents and more. And by
Speaker 1: custody documents, I mean documents that one would fill out
Speaker 1: so that if anything happened to you, your children would
Speaker 1: go to somebody. So there were documents that purported to
Speaker 1: be signed by Hannah May that said if I die,
Speaker 1: I want my child to go to Jake Right. That
Speaker 1: piece of paper was dated as if Hannah May had
Speaker 1: signed it on December twenty fourth of twenty fourteen, Christmas
Speaker 1: Eve twenty fourteen, which was really the last holiday that
Speaker 1: she spent with the Wagners. As she lays this out
Speaker 1: to the jury, you can hear confidence in Kneppa's voice.
Speaker 1: She stares them directly in the eye. The problem with that,
Speaker 1: first of all, was that our handwriting people looked at
Speaker 1: it and said that Hannah May likely did not sign
Speaker 1: that thing. But more importantly, it was printed off the
Speaker 1: computer on April third, two thousand and sixteen. That piece
Speaker 1: of paper didn't even exist until April third or two sixteen,
Speaker 1: so it could not have been filled out in December
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. April third of two thousand and sixteen, just
Speaker 1: a little over two weeks before the homicides. They're printing
Speaker 1: this out so that if Hannah May would unexpectedly meet
Speaker 1: the end would go to Jake. But what they found
Speaker 1: next speaks to the question of who might be the
Speaker 1: instigator of the entire massacre. But there were two other
Speaker 1: documents that we found on that day which are extremely telling.
Speaker 1: There were two documents, one that Jake filled out and
Speaker 1: one that George filled out, and they were dated, I
Speaker 1: believe in twenty fifteen March of twenty fifteen. But they
Speaker 1: said for j if he dies and goes to Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: not Hannah May, almost like they knew Hannah May wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be alive. That's one George Wagner also fills
Speaker 1: out a custody document that if something happens to him
Speaker 1: on the night of the murders, his child will go
Speaker 1: to his mother. So they were anticipating whether they got arrested,
Speaker 1: caught in the middle of the act, or something worse.
Speaker 1: They wanted to make sure that custody of their children
Speaker 1: was secure. On April third, twenty sixteen, all three of
Speaker 1: those documents were printed out and filled out and signed
Speaker 1: Anjeanette Levy. We know that there were custody documents drawn
Speaker 1: up that gave custody of Jake and Hanna May's daughter
Speaker 1: to Angela. Should anything happen to Jake or George, maybe
Speaker 1: and I say maybe, because I don't know. You make
Speaker 1: it look like Jake did this and it was a
Speaker 1: murder suicide. Or maybe you just take him out because
Speaker 1: you want custody your granddaughter all to yourself. You make
Speaker 1: him do the dirty work. I don't know, but Billy
Speaker 1: is obviously somebody who's been described by Jeff Tackett and
Speaker 1: other people as somebody who's capable of violence. For sure,
Speaker 1: kill your own kid. We're going from more demented to
Speaker 1: more demented. Angela did not minimize her own involvement. In fact,
Speaker 1: she will tell you that it was her idea to
Speaker 1: begin with, and that she nagged and nagged, nagged Billy
Speaker 1: to figure out a solution to the problem, the problem
Speaker 1: being that we're losing control of the prosecution has argued
Speaker 1: that you know this was a family affair, that it
Speaker 1: was all for one, one for all. George Wagner of
Speaker 1: the Force lawyers disputed almost all of that. They also
Speaker 1: pointed out that their client, despite phasing eight aggravated murder charges,
Speaker 1: is not believed to have killed anyone. George is an outsider,
Speaker 1: George does not go along with what his family does
Speaker 1: and who didn't do it on that night. George is
Speaker 1: not guilty of murder, and we believe when you've heard
Speaker 1: all of the evidence, you will agree George had no
Speaker 1: part in this murder much you'll find him not guilty.
Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the
Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie
Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker,
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and
Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta
Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a
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