WEBVTT - Opening Statements 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.080 The first trial involving the Wagner family for the Rodan 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.200 Family massacre has begun. George Wagner, the fourth is the 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.160 first to go on trial. That thirty year old will 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.960 face a jury for the first time. When opening statements 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:21.160 begin around nine o'clock, Jake Wagner said that he rearranged 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:25.799 Hannah May's body so that her newborn baby could breastfeed 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.560 off of her now a dying or dead mother. They 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.080 were thinking that if they wiped out the entire Rodan family, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.879 there would be no one left to battle them for 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.559 custody of this child. Billy came running out of the 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.320 residence saying, I just shot my best friend. I just 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:53.440 shot my best friend. This is the Pipes and Massacre 0:00:53.840 --> 0:01:00.960 trials begin Season four, Episode two. Opening statements. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.480 a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:10.640 Jeff Shane. It's a gray morning in Waverley, Ohio, and 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.040 you can feel the first hint of fall weather starting 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.760 to seep into the air. Everyone has filed inside the 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.640 courtroom by nine am. Good morning. This is the case 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.399 of State of Ohio Plaintiff versus George Washington. Wager the 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.360 fourth defended. Today is September twelve, twenty twenty two, and 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.480 we continue proceedings in the trial of this matter. With 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.759 multiple attorneys, sheriff's deputies, and a scattering of television monitors 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.679 throughout the courtroom. It feels small. Darkwood walls and a 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:46.040 thick red carpet make it seem even more so. There 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.680 is a large hand painted mural on the wall behind 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:53.320 Judge Deering that says semper justicia. It's Latin and means 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.080 justice for all. Present today is a defendant with his 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.120 attorneys John Parker and Richard Nash. For statable hi it 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.040 was represented by Rob Junk, prosecuting attorney, and special prosecutors 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:10.359 Andrew at Kanepa and Andrew Wilson. It's important to note 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.160 that George Wagner the Fourth, currently on trial, and his father, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.240 Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:24.359 to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth sits between his lawyers, motionless, 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:29.000 staring straight ahead as the judge instructs the jury. He 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.240 looks thinner than he did over the summer and has 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.080 lost some hair as well. There's no one in court 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.120 to support George Wagner, and the media is allocated to 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.320 his side of the courtroom. Aanette Levy is one of 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.440 the reporters, kind of goes to this whole thing of 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.800 how they were kind of insular and operating as one unit. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.120 There's nobody there to support George Wagner the fourth and 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.160 it's kind of sad when you think about it. Courtney 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.040 and I were actually sitting behind him. Then kind of 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.440 occurred to us after that if you had access to 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.360 the fee, that it might appear that we were in 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.760 support of the Wagners just by being there, which gave 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.880 us some pause. It's really hard if you're in that 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.240 courtroom if you're not sitting up front to hear at times, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.000 so getting a front row seat is actually better. And 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.160 nobody should read anything into people sitting behind George Wagner. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.360 It's not a show of support. It's just a matter 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.440 of logistics and where we were told to sit. Today, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.040 the court will give some preliminary instructions to the jury, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.480 after which there will be opening statements by counsel. These 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.680 opening statements of counsel are not evidence, but they are 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.760 a preview of the claims of each party and They 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.520 are designed to help you follow the evidence as it 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.880 is presented. Because there will be no witnesses called to 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.640 the stand today. The video feed to media outside the 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.560 courtroom is up and running for people at home. Basically, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.600 the prosecutor's office will be giving the jury members kind 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.080 of the roadmap but where they're taking this investigation to 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.320 prove their case. That's exactly what opening statement is. It's 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.200 a roadmap letting the jury know what they think they 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.680 can prove, where they think their case is going to go. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.880 The important thing about opening statement is do not overpromise. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.480 Lead prosecuting Attorney Angie Kinnepa gets up to address the jury. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.839 She has blonde shoulder lenk hair with bangs, and is 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.400 wearing a smart, conservative navy blue suit. Let's talk about 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.440 why we are here. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:43.080 jury because this defended George Wagner the Fourth aka George 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:50.039 Wagner and his brother Edward J. Wagner, Jacob Wagner and 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.640 his father George Wagner Third, also known as Billy Wagner, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:01.280 murdered eight people who did not deserve to die and 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:06.520 went back to sinking. Kneppa speaks with an air of 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.279 confidence and directness. The question that has been asked the 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.680 most over the past six and a half years is 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:23.400 why why did four individuals plot to kill eight members 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.040 of another family? And I think you will be disappointed 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.679 to learn that there is no good reason these murders 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:38.320 happened after a period of three months of planning and 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:47.479 plotting and purchasing and preparing and executing eight individuals of 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.640 a family. And in part you will learn his mother, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.440 who helped in the planning and plotting of this. You 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:58.400 will learn that the defendants knew that before they walk 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.440 out of the door that night to kill these individuals, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:03.960 that there might be other people there, and they all 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:09.360 agree those people would have to be killed two regardless 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.680 of the fact that they literally have no issue with 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:19.000 any of those other individuals. As Andrew Kneppa talks about 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.039 the collateral damage of the night of the murders, George 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:26.120 bows his head ever so slightly and looks down. They 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.440 were willing to kill indiscriminately with no reason. At this 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:35.080 point she locks in with the jury. Caneppa spends almost 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.720 twenty minutes detailing the last known moments of the Roden family. 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.000 Chris Roden, Senior was forty years old at the time 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.159 of his death. You see here that on April twenty 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:51.560 first of twenty sixteen, his last outgoing text was to 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.880 Dana Roden. Dana Roden was thirty seven years old at 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.360 the time she was killed, and she was last seen 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.680 on video surveillance at the People's once stop having a 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.599 conversation with her friend and co worker, Frankie Rodin was 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.320 twenty years old. The last activity we see on his phone, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.320 just before eleven PM, he takes a picture of both 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.840 of his children sleeping. Hannah May Roden had just turned 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.440 nineteen a few weeks prior to her death. Her last 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:23.480 outgoing contact was a text to Corey Holdron. You may 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.680 recall Corey Holdron was Hannah May's boyfriend at the time 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.520 of the murders. There were two things that were kind 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.560 of chilling about that. One was that the boyfriend was 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.040 supposed to go over there and hang out, and his 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.720 sister had some kind of plumbing problem or something, so 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.960 he couldn't come over, and that probably saved his life. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.600 The other thing was that Chris Junior had friends over 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.920 all the time, but he was grounded, and he would 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.480 have had a friend over sleeping over, hanging out playing 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.160 video games or whatever. But he was grounded so his 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.440 friend couldn't come over, and that saved his friend's life. 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.000 They were going to kill anybody as collateral damage that 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:08.480 were in those trailers. Here's Stephanie. I have to say, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:13.800 hearing the details about each victim's final moments was a 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.920 piece of the puzzle we'd never heard before. Just knowing 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.840 that Corey Holdron was the last person that Hanname wrote 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:25.360 and texted before the murders is kind of a chilling detail. 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.360 The idea that little Chris Junior, who was again just 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.840 a little teenager having a buddy over for a sleepover 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.400 where they were going to play video games all night. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.600 Who can't relate to that. It was very chilling. When 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.880 Angie Kneppa goes on to say what could have been 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.400 that night? There could have been even more victims indiscriminately 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.800 taken with this tragedy. Now we're hearing these details from 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.840 the prosecution that we just hadn't known before. Angie Kneppa, 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.080 I think, particularly in this section of her opening statement, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.800 it was really incredibly effective. She is painting a picture 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.640 of the moments in these victims lives and you can 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.640 see them, and you can place yourselves in their shoes, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.199 whether it's the last known thing they did, was taking 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.040 a picture of their kids, or was having a conversation 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.280 with a co worker while stopping by on an errand 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.880 after work. The fact that people's lives were taken purely 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:33.920 as collateral damage the Wagners, according to everything that's been said, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:40.800 we're willing to take those quote extra lives. So just 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.839 by happenstance. Gary Rodin was there that night, and we 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.920 have interviewed several people over the years who have said, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.000 you know, Gary would frequently do that. He would just 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.320 pop by Chris Siors and crash for a night or two, 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.440 sometimes even up to a week, and then months would 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.680 go by where he wouldn't And again, wrong is wrong time. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.439 Kanepa alines the entire trajectory of Jake and Hannah's relationship. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:16.800 Hannah may Roden, her crime was not returning the love 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:21.199 of Jake Wagner, not submitting to the control of the Wagners. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.280 And you will learn that that is the character of 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.280 this family was very controlling of any women who came 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.160 into their circle. It kind of starts with a love story. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.120 If you want to call that. A very young teenage girl, 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.920 Hannah May Roden age thirteen at the time, was at 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:43.320 the Pipe County Fairgrounds and somebody introduced her to Jacob. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.720 Two years later, Hannah Rodin is pregnant with the daughter 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.960 she shares with Jake Wagner. There are text messages from 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:57.080 Jake to Hannah May which state quote I'll take and 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.400 if I have to buy force? This is was still 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:06.520 inside of Hannahme's womb. Hannahme gives birth to the daughter 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.960 she shares with Jake Wagner in twenty thirteen and eventually 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.000 goes to live with the Wagner's, but things go south quickly. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.400 Angela wants a little girl to call her mom even 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.560 when Hanname is there. It's all too much for Hannah. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.559 Hearing these text messages really puts to light the fact 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.640 that Hanname Rodin was clearly in an abusive relationship with 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.880 Jake Wagner. And sometimes when you're in an abusive relationship, 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.840 you get desensitized to bad behavior, and in her case, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.320 she was wise enough and brave enough to get out 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.760 of that relationship despite her young age, and also she 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.000 was very fortunate to have a loving family in a 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.839 safe place to land with her family. Not everybody has that, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.240 And I think that's the double whammy here is that 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.520 she did everything correctly. She got out of an abusive situation, 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.000 She tried to make things better, try to keep things 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.240 cool with the father of her daughter. Her family justifiably 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.920 looked out for her and protected her, and yet even 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:15.480 that didn't offer enough safety for any of them. Eventually, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.439 Hannah May leaves Jake in early twenty fifteen. She calls 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.560 her father asks for him to come get her. Jacob 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.319 choked her and she could not handle the controlling nature 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:34.440 of not just Jake, but also the family. April twenty second, 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.120 twenty sixteen, after the news breaks about the murders, James 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.040 Manley goes to check in on his sister Dana Roden, 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.960 his nephew Little Chris, and niece Hannah Me. When he 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.880 gets there, he also notices that the door is a jar. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.839 He went back to her bedroom. She was covered up, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:57.920 so he didn't know if she was in the bed. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.360 He felt around in the bed until he could feel 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.920 that her body was there, and he lifted the pillow 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.560 that was covering her face. She was deceased, shot in 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.040 the head he goes to check on Hannah May. He 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.880 will tell you that he heard the by baild baby crying, 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.320 but he could not bring himself to go back and 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:25.240 see anything more. Canepa brings up Jake's confession of what 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.160 happened that night. Stephanie and I speak with Angeanette Levy. 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:31.960 I think one of the most stunning things out of 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.720 opening statements that I heard was the fact that Jake 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.920 Wagner told the prosecutors that he was in Dana Roden's house, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.000 where Hannah May and Chris Junior were also in the home, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.640 and that he could see Dana Rodin was still awake 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.160 and had the light from her cell phone up to 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.240 her face. And then he said that he was standing 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.840 kind of by Dana Roden's bedroom, and Hannah Roden's bedroom 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.960 was nearby, and the newborn baby started crying, and so 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.000 he didn't want Dana Rodin getting up or waking up 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.160 or what have you to help with the baby, so 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.160 he stepped into the room and shot her in the head, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.000 and then went over to Hannah May's room, and Hannah 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.120 May turned and according to Angie Kaneppa, Jake believes she 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.280 saw him but didn't necessarily recognize him. He wasn't sure 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.080 of that, and then he then shot her. And it's 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.040 so flabbergasting to me the fact that Angie Kneppa said 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.920 Jake Wagner said that he rearranged Hannah May's body so 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.520 that her newborn baby could breastfeed, if that's even possible 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.000 off of her now a dying or dead mother. I 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.160 feel like you couldn't make that up. And keep in mind, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:56.760 this was after he'd already killed, allegedly or helped kill, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.040 I should say, according to Jake, Christine, you're and Gary. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.360 It is the detail that I think was the most 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.760 haunting takeaway from opening statements. It's such a disturbing detail 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:14.360 on top of so many disturbing details. We're going to 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:23.840 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.200 tragic arc of Jake and Hannah's romance highlights how intertwined 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.720 the families were, both in love and in business. It 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.440 turns out it was also the undoing of the Wagners. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.920 When Jake Wagner was initially interviewed pretty early in the investigation, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.920 he indicated that everything was just dandy between he and 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:48.560 Hannah May. A large part of the prosecution's case revolves 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.720 around texts and Facebook messages that paint anything but a 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.840 rosy picture of Jake and Hannah's battle over their daughter. 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.600 The media letches onto it immediately. Prosecutors said the Wagners 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.480 were of a chilling statement that Hannah May Roden made 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.200 on social media about that little girl's custody just weeks 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.640 before the killings. In Facebook messages their girls mom, Hannah 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.800 said the only way he would get custody is if quote, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.640 they kill me. Prosecutors said that Wagners knew about that 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.120 private social media post because they had stolen the passwords 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.600 of the person that Hannah Roden sent that message to. Additionally, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.560 Billy Wagner was interviewed and he indicated that he did 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.080 not have the phone that he had at the time 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.360 of the homicides because he kept trying to call Chris 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.120 Senior because Chris Senior was his best friend, and after 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.600 the homicides, he kept trying to call him and he 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.240 finally got frustrated and upset one day and broke his phone. Well, 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.440 that was a good story, but it wasn't true because 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.880 we have phone records that indicate he never once tried 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:54.760 to call Chris Senior. According to Kneppa, Jacol testified to 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.320 the complicated and deep relationship Billy had with Chris Senior. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.200 Here again, Stephanie, We've always heard that Billy Wagner and 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.280 Chris Senior. You know, they knew each other for a 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.600 long time. They might have done some ancillary work stuff together, 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.760 but best friends. Never have I heard that Billy Wagner 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.879 was his best bud. I too, have never heard the 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.480 term best friends as it relates to Billy Wagner and 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.760 Chris Roden Senior. However, we do know there is a past, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.959 there are some business dealings, There are grandpas to the 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.440 same baby. That's fair in this moment. During the opening statement, 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.960 Angrew Kneppa then goes on to give a preview of 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.520 what Jake will say in his testimony, including some details 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.920 like the night of the murder, when Billy was at 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.399 Chris Senior's house before Chris was aware of what was 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:53.440 going on. Billy asked Chris Senior to call him because quote, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.280 he couldn't find his phone. When an actuality, all of 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.640 the Wagner's phones were back with Angela, so that when 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.440 Chris Senior called Billy's phone or any of the other 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:10.280 phones they would register at being at home. Even just 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.640 having the foresight to put that part of the plan 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.440 in place, they were smart enough to know that these 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.639 phones will be tracked and they will ping someplace, and 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:25.520 that will provide them with an alibi. Angie Caneppa continues, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.960 Jake will tell you that Billy came running out of 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:35.399 the residence and was hysterical, saying, I just shot my 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.320 best friend. I just shot my best friend, he will say. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.680 At that point, he and George tried to calm Billy down, 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.840 and George and Billy drug the bodies of Gary Rowden 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.240 and Chris Senior back to the bedroom of Chris Senior, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.680 Angeanette Levy and Chris Senior's home. There was a long 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.600 path of blood drag marks from where apparently he and 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.720 Gary Roden had been dragged back into a back bedroom 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.480 and essentially thrown on top of each other and then 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.760 a comforter or thrown on top of them. You know, 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.080 they were just thrown away like trash. Chris Senior was 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:21.280 shot just in that general area nine times, so there 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:26.359 was just a long path of blood. There were so 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.200 many familial roots and conflicting feelings between the two families, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.439 but why the totality of the crime the entire family. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.680 Early in her statement, Antioquanepa alludes to the collateral damage 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.520 and indiscriminate killing in this focused custody battle over Jake 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:48.600 Wagner and Hannahme's shared daughter. Chris Roden Senior was one 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:53.239 of the intended targets of the Wagners. That's because he 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.119 was the patriarch of the family and they considered basically 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.679 that if they kind of got rid of him, that 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:05.200 the structure of the family would fall. And they also 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.480 knew that if they only killed Hannah May that he 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.880 would know who did it, and he would that would 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.439 either get them arrested or he would retaliate. Gary Roden 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:20.520 was killed simply because he was there. As Kneppa goes 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.800 through the entire family at the defense as council table, 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.040 George Wagner the fourth looks down for this entire part 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.639 of the statement. Kenneth Roden and Chris Roden Senior were 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.320 very close to each other. There had been prior occasions 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:38.760 where Chris Roden had been hurt and Kenneth retaliated on 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.600 his behalf. So the Wagners very much knew that about Kenneth, 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.000 and so they decided that he had to be killed 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.359 because again, he would know who it was. We have 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.680 kind of been working under the narrative that whoever did 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.320 this wanted to wipe out the entire bloodline, frankly, or 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.000 anybody who would potentially lay claim to custody of the 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.199 then three year old. But it also sounds like some 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.520 of the victims were targeted because they feared retribution. Kenneth 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.600 Rowden has always been a confusing crime scene to me 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.600 because we never understood why, And maybe now it makes 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.919 sense that the idea was he was very very close 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.679 with Chris Senior, and he was very close to the 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:29.800 entire family, and had he known that anybody had ill 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.239 will toward his family that, you know, he would have 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.320 taken retribution. That makes sense to me, but I hadn't 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.119 thought of it before. I always thought they would have 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.960 been wiped out because they would have possibly known who 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.720 did it, not necessarily because of the retribution or revenge 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:49.920 aspect of it. It would have just been like, oh, 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.879 you have knowledge that you knew you were going to 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:53.760 put the point the cops at us. But they make 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.359 it sound like no, Kenneth would have maybe taken matters 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.679 into his own hands and taken care of this himself. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.520 The fact that Hannah Hazel. I always thought she was 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.080 killed because of Charlie Gillie, because of a jealousy type 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.800 thing there. But apparently they say she was just collateral damage, 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.240 that she was killed because she was there. Gary Roden 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:20.120 was killed because he was there. The logic doesn't rock 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.280 with me. She was Frankie's fiance. Of course she was 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.240 going to be there. Seemed like it was Dana's house. 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:29.680 Of course she was going to be there. I really 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.000 I can't logically compute it. I think it's more like 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.720 Hannah Hazel wasn't a target, but it was almost like 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.240 they had to kill her because she was there. You 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.880 can't go in and kill Frankie and not kill her 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.359 and said that to me. It's just not that it 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:46.920 ever makes sense to kill anybody. But that's just even 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:50.959 more senseless. If they were fearing that the Roden family 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:54.159 would want to take matters into their own hands, not 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:56.800 that they said that, but it was intimated that they 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:01.120 feared retribution. That also shows how much they were loved. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.960 They were all steeped in so much loving history that yeah, 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.119 it speaks to the fact that they were all very close. 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.159 The motive to kill Dana Rodin always seemed murky. And 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.800 how about the fact that Dana Rodin was considered not 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.320 a target, which I find really strange because how could 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.840 she not have been an intended target because she could 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.240 have possibly laid claim to She would have known about 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:32.040 the custody battle, and she was going to be home 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:35.600 that night. I mean maybe if she had worked an 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:37.920 overnight shift. We knew she worked a later shift, a 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:42.560 double that day and got home later. But how could 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.119 she not have been an intended target if they had 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.800 already said, you know, even if Chris Junior had a 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:49.960 friend over, they would have killed that person. They would 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.040 have killed whoever was there. So how was Dana Rodin 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:56.679 not an intended target? According to Kneppa, Dana was privy 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.119 to the threat Dick made towards Hannah. Dana couldn't be 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.600 left alive to reveal what she knew. When Chris Senior 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.719 and Gary's bodies are found. Another persistent theme in our 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:11.439 investigation was discovered. Bobby Joe will tell you that on 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:16.320 this particular morning, she and Billie and Emma Morgan drove 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.840 up to that location. Emma and Billy Morgan were a 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:23.480 married couple living with Bobby Joe Manley. They would come 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:25.840 to Chris Senior's house in the morning to help feed 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:30.959 his animals. Typically, Chris Senior is not there when they 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.959 arrive because he gets up early and he's already on 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.080 his way to Big Bear Lake where he works every day. 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.600 He operated heavy equipment and did construction, built decks and 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:44.280 stuff like that. You will learn that they immediately thought 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.440 something was amiss because Chris Senior's truck was still at 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.960 the house and both of the inside dogs were sitting 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:57.359 outside of the house on the front porch. Gary Roden 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.800 was thirty eight when he was killed. He was from 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:02.160 Kentucky and would come up to piked In and live 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.920 with Chris Senior on and off. Gary also worked at 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:10.160 Big Bear Lake. Billy went to go start feeding the animals. 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:12.280 Bobby Joe goes up to the house to see what's 0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:15.040 going on with Chris. Why the dogs are out all 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:19.800 that stuff? The door is locked. That's also unusual. They 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:22.199 obviously were not prepared for what they saw when they 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.720 entered that residence. When they found Chris Sor, he was 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:30.480 wearing a big bear Lake sweatshirt. They quickly exited and 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.719 she went to the car where Emma Morgan they call 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:38.520 her Emmy, was still seated, and she retrieved her telephone 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:45.359 and made a phone call to nine one one. Another 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.480 loose end in the case has brought up as well. 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:52.399 Angie Kneppa mentions what she calls a quote false exculpatory story. 0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:55.600 It's a story about a big drug deal in California 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:58.560 that Billy Wagner and Chris Rodinorre supposed to be a 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:02.679 part of. So part of this alleged deal was a 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.320 man named Skid Montgomery. It's important to note that we 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:09.960 are not saying Skid Montgomery has any drug related convictions, 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.960 nor are we saying he's implicated in any way into 0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:17.040 the murders. This is simply a reporting of what was 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.280