1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: The first trial involving the Wagner family for the Rodent 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: Family massacre has begun. George Wagner, the fourth is the 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: first to go on trial. That thirty year old will 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: face a jury for the first time. When opening statements 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: begin around nine o'clock, Jake Wagner said that he rearranged 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: Hannah May's body so that her newborn baby could breastfeed 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: off of her now a dying or dead mother. They 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: were thinking that if they wiped out the entire Roadent family, 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: there would be no one left to battle them for 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: custody of this child. Billy came running out of the 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: residence saying, I just shot my best friend. I just 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: shot my best friend. This is the Pikeson massacre trials 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: begin Season four, Episode two. Opening statements. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and 15 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. It's a gray morning in Waverley, Ohio, and 16 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: you can feel the first hint of fall weather starting 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: to seep into the air. Everyone has filed inside the 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: courtroom by nine am. Good morning. This is the case 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: of State of Ohio Plaintiff versus George Washington Wager the 20 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: fourth defendant. Today is September twelveth, twenty twenty two, and 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: we continued proceedings in the trial of this matter with 22 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: multiple attorneys, sheriff's deputies, and a scattering of television monitors 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: throughout the courtroom. It feels small. Darkwood walls and a 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: thick red carpet make it seem even more so. There 25 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: is a large hand painted mural on the wall behind 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Judge Deering that says semper justicia. It's Latin and means 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: justice for all. Present today is a defendant with his 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: attorneys John Parker and Richard Nash. The state of Ohio 29 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: is represented by Rob juhnk prosecuting Attorney, and special prosecutors 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: Angela Kinneppa and Andrew Wilson. It's important to note that 31 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth, currently on trial, and his father, 32 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty 33 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth sits between his lawyers, motionless, 34 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: staring straight ahead as the judge instructs the jury. He 35 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: looks thinner than he did over the summer and has 36 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: lost some hair as well. There's no one in court 37 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: to support George Wagner, and the media is allocated to 38 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: his side of the courtroom. Angeonette Levy is one of 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: the reporters. Kind of goes to this whole thing of 40 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: how they were kind of insular and operating as one unit. 41 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: There's nobody there to support George Wagner the fourth and 42 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of sad when you think about it. Courtney 43 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: and I were actually sitting behind him. Then kind of 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: occurred to us after that if you had access to 45 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: the feet, that it might appear that we were in 46 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: support of the Wagners just by being there, which you 47 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: gave us some pause. It's really hard if you're in 48 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: that courtroom if you're not sitting up front to here 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: at times, so getting a front row seat is actually better. 50 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: And nobody should read anything into people sitting behind George Wagner. 51 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: It's not a show of support. It's just a matter 52 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: of logistics and where we were told to sit. Today, 53 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: the court will give some preliminary instructions to the jury, 54 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: after which there will be opening statements by Council. These 55 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: opening statements of Council are not evidence, but they are 56 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: a preview of the claims of each party, and they 57 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: are designed to help you follow the evidence as it 58 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: is presented. Because there will be no witnesses called to 59 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: the stand today. The video feed to media outside the 60 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: courtroom is up and running for people at home. Basically, 61 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office will be giving the jury remembers kind 62 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: of the roadmap of where they're taking this investigation to 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: prove their case. That's exactly what opening statement is. It's 64 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: a roadmap letting the jury know what they think they 65 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: can prove, where they think their case is going to go. 66 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: The important thing about opening statement is do not over promise. 67 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: Lead Prosecuting Attorney Angiekineppa gets up to address the jury. 68 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: She has blonde, shoulder lengthd hair with bangs and is 69 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: wearing a smart, conservative navy blue suit. Let's talk about 70 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: why we are here. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, 71 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: because this defendant, George Wagner the fourth A George Wagner, 72 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: and his brother Edward Jacob Wagner. Jacob Wagner and his father, 73 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: George Wagner the IID also known as Billy Wagner, murdered 74 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: eight people who did not deserve to die and went 75 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: that to sink in Kneppa speaks with an air of 76 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: confidence and directness. The question that has been asked the 77 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: most over the past six and a half years is 78 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: why why did four individuals plot to kill eight members 79 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: of another family? And I think you will be disappointed 80 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: to learn that there is no good reason. These murders 81 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: happened after a period of three months of planning and 82 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: plotting and purchasing and preparing and executing eight individuals of 83 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: a family. And in part you will learn his mother, 84 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: who helped in the planning and plotting of this. You 85 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: will learn that the defendants knew that before they walked 86 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: out the door that night to kill these individuals, that 87 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: there might be other people there, and they all agreed 88 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: those people would have to be killed two regardless of 89 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: the fact that they literally had no issue with any 90 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: of those other individuals. As Angel Kaneppa talks about the 91 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: collateral damage of the night of the murders, George Bows's 92 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: head ever so slightly and looks down. They were willing 93 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: to kill indiscriminately with no reason. At this point she 94 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: locks in with the jury. Kneppa spends almost twenty minutes 95 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: detailing the last known moments of the Rodin family. Chris 96 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Rodin Senior was forty years old at the time of 97 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: his death. You see here that on April twenty first 98 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: of twenty sixteen, his last outgoing text was to Dana Rodin. 99 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: Dana Rodin was thirty seven years old at the time 100 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: she was killed, and she was last seen on video 101 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: surveillance at the People's one stop having a conversation with 102 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: her friend and coworker, Frankie. Rodin was twenty years old. 103 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: The last activity we see on his phone, just before 104 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: eleven PM, he takes a picture of both of his 105 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: children sleeping. Hannah May Rodin had just turned nineteen a 106 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: few weeks prior to her death. Her last outgoing contact 107 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: was a text to Corey Holdron. You may recall Corey 108 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: Holdron was Hannah May's boyfriend at the time of the murders. 109 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: There were two things that were kind of chilling about that. 110 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: One was that the boyfriend was supposed to go over 111 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: there and hang out, and his sister had some kind 112 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: of plumbing problem or something, so he couldn't come over, 113 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: and that probably saved his life. The other thing was 114 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: that Chris Junior had friends over all the time, but 115 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: he was grounded and he would have had a friend 116 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: over sleeping over, hanging out playing video games or whatever, 117 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: but he was grounded so his friend couldn't come over, 118 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: and that saved his friend's life. They were going to 119 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: kill anybody as collateral damage that were in those trailers here, Stephanie, 120 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: I have to say, hearing the details about each victim's 121 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: final moments was a piece of the puzzle we'd never 122 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: heard before. Just knowing that Corey Holdron was the last 123 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: person that Hannahme wrote and texted before the murders is 124 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: kind of a chilling detail. The idea that little Chris Junior, 125 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: who was again just a little teenager having a buddy 126 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: over for a sleepover where they were going to play 127 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: video games all night. Who can't relate to that? It 128 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: was very chilling. When Angie Caneppa goes on to say 129 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: what could have been that night? There could have been 130 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: even more victims indiscriminately taken with a stragedy. Now we're 131 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: hearing these details from the prosecution that we just hadn't 132 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: known before. Angie Caneppa, I think, particularly in this section 133 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: of her opening statement, it was really incredibly effective. She 134 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: is painting a picture of the moments in these victims' lives, 135 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: and you can see them and you can place yourselves 136 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: in their shoes, whether it's the last known thing they did, 137 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: was taking a picture of their kids, or was having 138 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: a conversation with a coworker while stopping by on an 139 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: errand after work. The fact that people's lives were taken 140 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: purely as collateral damage the Wagoners, according to everything that's 141 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: been said, we're willing to take those quote extra lives. 142 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: So just by happenstance. Gary Rodin was there that night, 143 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: and we have interviewed several people over the years who 144 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: have said, you know, Gary would frequently do that. He 145 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: would just pop by Chris Seniors and crash for a 146 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: night or two, sometimes even up to a week, and 147 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: then months would go by where he wouldn't and again, 148 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: wrong place, wrong time. Kaneppa outlines the entire trajectory of 149 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's relationship. Hannah may Rodin. Her crime was 150 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: not returning the love of Jake Wagner, not submitting to 151 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: the control of the Wagners. And you will learn that 152 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: that is the character of this family was very controlling 153 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: of any women who came into their circle. It kind 154 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: of starts with a love story, if you want to 155 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: call that. A very young teenage girl, Hannah May Rodin, 156 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: age thirteen at the time, was at the Pike County 157 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: Fairgrounds and somebody introduced her to Jacob. Two years later, 158 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin is pregnant with the daughter she shares with 159 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. There are text messages from Jake to Hannah 160 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: May which state quote I'll take and if I have 161 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: to buy force. This is when she was still inside 162 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: of Hannah Ma's will. Hannahme gives birth to the daughter 163 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: she shares with Jake Wagner in twenty thirteen and eventually 164 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: goes to live with the Wagners, but things go south quickly. 165 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: Angela wants little girl to call her mom even when 166 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: Hannah Ma is there. It's all too much for Hannah. 167 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: Hearing these text messages really puts to light the fact 168 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: that Hanname Rodin was clearly in an abusive relationship with 169 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. And sometimes when you're in an abusive relationship, 170 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: you get desensitized to bad behavior, and in her case, 171 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: she was wise enough and brave enough to get out 172 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: of that relationship despite her young age, and also she 173 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: was very fortunate to have a loving family in a 174 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: safe place to land with her family. Not everybody has that, 175 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's the double whammy here, is that 176 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: she did everything correctly. She got out of an abusive situation. 177 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: She tried to make things better, tried to keep things 178 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: cool with the father of her daughter. Her family justifiably 179 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: looked out for her and protected her, and yet even 180 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: that didn't offer enough safety for any of them. Eventually, 181 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: Hannah Mae leaves Jake in early twenty fifteen. She calls 182 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: her father asks for him to come get her. Jacob 183 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: choked her, and she just could not handle the controlling 184 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: nature of not just Jake, but also the family. April 185 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: twenty second, twenty sixteen, after the news breaks about the murders, 186 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: James Manley goes to check in on his sister Dana Rodin, 187 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: his nephew Little Chris, and niece hannahme. When he gets there, 188 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: he also notices that the door is a jar. He 189 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: went back to her bedroom. She was covered up, so 190 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: he didn't know if she was in the bed. He 191 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: felt around in the bed until he could feel that 192 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: her body was there, and he lifted the pillow that 193 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: was covering her face. She was deceased, shot in the head. 194 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: He goes to check on Hannah May. He will tell 195 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: you that he heard the five day old baby crying, 196 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: but he could not bring himself to go back and 197 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: see anything more. Kneppa brings up Jake's confession of what 198 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: happened that night. Stephanie and I speak with Anjeanette Levy. 199 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: I think one of the most stunning things out of 200 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: opening statements that I heard was the fact that Jake 201 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Wagner told the prosecutors that he was in Dana Roden's house, 202 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: where Hannah May and Chris Junior were also in the home, 203 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: and that he could see Dana Roden was still awake 204 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: and had the light from her cell phone up to 205 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: her face. And then he said that he was standing 206 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: kind of by Dana Roden's bedroom, and Hannah Roden's bedroom 207 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: was nearby, and the newborn baby started crying, and so 208 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: he didn't want Dana Rhoden getting up or waking up 209 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: or what have you to help with the baby, so 210 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: he stepped into the room and shot her in the head, 211 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: and then went over to Hannah May's room, and Hannah 212 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: May turned and according to Angie Kinneppa Jake believes she 213 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: saw him but didn't necessarily recognize him. He wasn't sure 214 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: of that, and then he then shot her. And it's 215 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: so flabbergasting to me the fact that Angie Kinneppus said 216 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner said that he rearranged Hannah May's body so 217 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: that her newborn baby could breastfeed, if that's even possible 218 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: off of her now dying or dead mother. I feel 219 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: like you couldn't make that up. And keep in mind, 220 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: this was after he'd already killed, allegedly or helped kill, 221 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: I should say, according to Jake, Christina Or and Gary, 222 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: it is the detail that I think was the most 223 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: haunting takeaway from opening statements. It's such a disturbing detail 224 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: on top of so many disturbing details. We're going to 225 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The 226 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: tragic arc of Jake and Hannah's romance highlights how intertwined 227 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: the families were, both in love and in business. It 228 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: turns out it was also the undoing of the Wagoners. 229 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: When Jake Wagner was initially interviewed pretty early in the investigation, 230 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: he indicated that everything was just dandy between he and 231 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: Hannah may A large part of the prosecution's case revolves 232 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: around texts and Facebook messages that paint anything but a 233 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: rosy picture of Jake and Hannah's battle over their daughter. 234 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: The media latches onto it immediately. Prosecutors said the Wagners 235 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: were aware of a chilling statement that Hannah May Rodin 236 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: made on social media about that little girl's custody just 237 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: weeks before the killings. In Facebook messages, the girl's mom, 238 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: Hannah said the only way he would get custody is 239 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: if quote, they kill me. Prosecutors said that Wagners knew 240 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: about that private social media post because they had stolen 241 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: the passwords of the person that Hannah Roden sent that 242 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: message to. Additionally, Billy Wagner was interviewed and he indicated 243 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: that he did not have the phone that he had 244 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: at the time of the homicides because he kept trying 245 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: to call Chris Senior because Chris Senior was his best friend, 246 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: and after the homicides, he kept trying to call him 247 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: and he finally got frustrated and upset one day and 248 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: broke his phone. Well, that was a good story, but 249 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't true because we have phone records that indicate 250 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: he never once tried to call Chris Senior. According to Kaneppa, 251 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: Jaco testified to the complicated and deep relationship Billy had 252 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: with Chris Senior. Here again, Stephanie, We've always heard that 253 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner and Chris Sr. You know, they knew each 254 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: other for a long time. They might have done some 255 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: ancillary work stuff together, but best friends. Never have I 256 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: heard that Billy Wagner was his best bud. I too, 257 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: have never heard the term best friends as it relates 258 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: to Billy Wagner and Chris Rudin. However, we do know 259 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: there is a past, there are some business dealings. There 260 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: are grandpas to the same baby. That's fair in this moment. 261 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: During the opening statement, Angie Caineppa then goes on to 262 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 1: give a preview of what Jake will say in his testimony, 263 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: including some details like the night of the murder, when 264 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: Billy was at Chris Senior's house before Chris was aware 265 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: of what was going on, Billy asked Chris Senior to 266 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: call him because quote, he couldn't find his phone, when 267 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: in actuality, all of the Wagner's phones were back with Angela, 268 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: so that when Chris called Billy's phone or any of 269 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: the other phones they would register at being at home. 270 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: Even just having the foresight to put that part of 271 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 1: the plan in place, they were smart enough to know 272 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: that these phones will be tracked and they will ping someplace, 273 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: and that will provide them with an alibi. And you, 274 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: Kneppa continues, Jake will tell you that Billy came running 275 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: out of the residence and was hysterical, saying, I just 276 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: shot my best friend. I just shot my best friend, 277 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: he will say. At that point, he and George tried 278 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: to calm Billy down, and George and Billy drug the 279 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: bodies of Gary Roden and Chris Senior back to the 280 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: bedroom of Chris Angeonette Levy. In Chris Senior's home, there 281 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: was a long path of blood drag marks from where 282 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: apparently he and Gary Roden had been dragged back into 283 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: a back bedroom and essentially thrown on top of each other, 284 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and then a comforter thrown on top of them. You know, 285 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: they were just thrown away like trash. Chris Senior was 286 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: shot just in that general area nine times, so there 287 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: was just a long path of blood. There were so 288 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: many familial roots and conflicting feelings between the two families, 289 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: But why the totality of the crime the entire family. 290 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: Early in her statement, Anchikinepa alludes to the collateral damage 291 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: and indiscriminate killing in this focused custody battle over Jake 292 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: Wagner and Hannah Me's shared daughter. Chris Roden was one 293 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: of the intended targets of the Wagners. That's because he 294 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: was the patriarch of the family and they considered basically 295 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: that if they kind of got rid of him, that 296 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: the structure of the family would fall. And they also 297 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: knew that if they only killed Hannah May that he 298 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: would know who did it, and he would that would 299 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: either get them arrested or he would retaliate. Gary Roden 300 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: was killed simply because he was there. As Kinnepa goes 301 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: through the entire family. At the defense's council table, George 302 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: Wagner the fourth looks down for this entire part of 303 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: the statement. Kenneth Roden and Chris Roden Senior were very 304 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: close to each other. There had been prior occasions where 305 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: Chris Roden had been hurt and Kenneth retaliated on his behalf. 306 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: So the Wagners very much knew that about Kenneth, and 307 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: so they decided that he had to be killed because again, 308 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: he would know who it was. We have kind of 309 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: been working under the narrative that whoever did this wanted 310 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: to wipe out the entire bloodline, frankly, or anybody who 311 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: would potentially lay claim to custody of the then three 312 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: year old. But it also sounds like some of the 313 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: victims were targeted because they feared retribution. Kenneth Roden has 314 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: always been a confusing crime scene to me because we 315 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: never understood why. And maybe now it makes sense that 316 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: the idea was he was very very close with Chris Senior, 317 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: and he was very close to the entire family, and 318 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: had he known that anybody had ill will toward his family, that, 319 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, he would have taken retribution. That makes sense 320 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: to me, but I hadn't thought of it before. I 321 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: always thought they would have been wiped out because they 322 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: would have possibly known who did it, not necessarily because 323 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: of the retribution or revenge aspect of it. It would 324 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: have just been like, oh, you have knowledge, you knew 325 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: you were going to put the point the cops at us. 326 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: But they make it sound like no Kenneth would have 327 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: maybe taken matters into his own hands and taken care 328 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: of this himself. The fact that Hannah Hazel, I always 329 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: thought she was killed because of Charlie Gilly, because of 330 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 1: a jealousy type thing there. But apparently they say she 331 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: was just collateral damage, that she was killed because she 332 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: was there. Gary Roden was killed because he was there. 333 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: The logic doesn't grock with me. She was Frankie's fiance. 334 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: Of course she was going to be there, like it 335 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: was Dana's house. Of course she was going to be there. 336 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: I really I can't logically compute it. I think it's 337 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: more like Hannah Hazel wasn't a target, but it was 338 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: almost like they had to kill her because she was there. 339 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: You can't go in and kill Frankie and not kill her, 340 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: and so that to me is just not that it 341 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: ever makes sense to kill anybody. But that's just even 342 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: more senseless. If they were fearing that the Rodent family 343 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: would want to take matters into their own hands, not 344 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: that they said that, but it was intimated that they 345 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: feared retribution. That also shows how much they were loved. 346 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: They were all steeped in so much loving history that yeah, 347 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: it speaks to the fact that they were all very close. 348 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: The motive to kill Dana Rodin always seemed murky. And 349 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: how about the fact that Dana Roden was considered not 350 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: a target, which I find really strange because how could 351 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target because she could 352 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: have possibly laid claim to She would have known about 353 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: the custody battle, and she was going to be home 354 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: that night. I mean maybe if she had worked an 355 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: overnight shift. We knew she worked a later shift, a 356 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: double that day and got home later. But how could 357 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target if they had 358 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: already said, you know, even if Chris Junior had a 359 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: friend over, they would have killed that person. They would 360 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: have killed whoever was there. So how was Dana Roden 361 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: not an intended target? According to Kinnepa, Dana was privy 362 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: to the threat Strig made towards Hannah. Dana couldn't be 363 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: left alive to reveal what she knew. When Chris Senior 364 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: and Gary's bodies were found, another persistent theme in our 365 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: investigation was discovered. Bobby Joe will tell you that on 366 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: this particular morning, she and Billy and Emma Morgan drove 367 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,959 Speaker 1: up to that location. Emma and Billy Morgan were a 368 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: married couple living with Bobby Joe Manley. They would come 369 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: to Chris Senior's house in the morning to help feed 370 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: his animals. Typically, Chris Senior is not there when they 371 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: arrived because he gets up early and he's already on 372 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: his way to Big Bear Leg where he works every day. 373 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: He operated heavy equipment and did construction, built decks and 374 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: stuff like that. You will learn that they immediately thought 375 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: something was amiss because Chris Senior's truck was still at 376 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: the house and both of the inside dogs were sitting 377 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: outside of the house on the front porch. Gary Roden 378 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: was thirty eight when he was killed. He was from 379 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: Kentucky and would come up to piked In and live 380 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: with Chris Senior on and off. Gary also worked at 381 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: Big Bear Lake. Billy went to go start feeding the animals. 382 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe goes up to the house to see what's 383 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: going on with Chris. Why the dogs are out all 384 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: that stuff? The door is locked. That's also unusual. They 385 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: obviously were not prepared for what they saw when they 386 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: entered that residence. When they found Chris, he was wearing 387 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: a big Bear Lake sweatshirt. They quickly exited and she 388 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: went to the car where Emma Morgan they call her Emmy, 389 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: was still seated, and she retrieved her telephone and made 390 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: a phone call to nine one one. Another loose end 391 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: in the case has brought up as well. Angie Kinneppa 392 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: mentions what she calls a quote false esculpatory story. It's 393 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: a story about a big drug deal in California that 394 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner and Chris Roden were supposed to be a 395 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: part of. Also part of this alleged deal was a 396 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: man named Skid Montgomery. It's important to note that we 397 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: are not saying Skid Montgomery has any drug related convictions, 398 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: nor are we saying he's implicated in any way into 399 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: the murders. This is simply a reporting of what was 400 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: brought up in open court. After the murders, a local 401 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: man named Jeff Tackett got a visit from his friend 402 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. He said, after the homicides, Billy came to 403 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: his home and stood at the end of the driveway 404 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: and talked to him and said that he couldn't stand himself. 405 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: He also told a story about Skid Montgomery one of 406 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: the wealthiest and most powerful people in Pike County, possibly 407 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: arranging the road and murders because Chris Senior cut Skid 408 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: out of a drug deal. And we've heard no evidence 409 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: that Chris and Skid Montgomery were actually involved in drug 410 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: dealing together, but we've heard that Billy and Chris Senior 411 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: were business associates. We've also gotten a lot of tips 412 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: from listeners in and around the area who keep pointing 413 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: to Skid Montgomery as something relevant. The prosecution also seems 414 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: to be rolling out the cartel as part of their case. 415 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: Whoever killed these individuals were very intimate with both the 416 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: personal habits of the Rodents and the residences themselves. I 417 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: told you that Dana Rodin and Hanna May and little 418 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: Chris had just moved into that residence less than thirty 419 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: days prior, so you had to know them well enough 420 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: to know that. Right. This kind of gets rid of 421 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the drug cartel idea, you know, and other individuals who 422 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: just wouldn't know that. So here's Billy putting out this 423 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: new theory, and it's caught enough wind that even we've 424 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: heard about it. I'm curious what the connection to this 425 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery is what do you think about the fact 426 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: that Angie Kineppa is sort of eliminating any of the 427 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: theories regarding the cartel. I think that what she's doing 428 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: is a good job at her job as a prosecutor. 429 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: She's laying forth a narrative and she wants to make 430 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: sure there is no other focus on anything but what 431 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: she is saying is true and that it was the 432 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: Wagner's and the Wagners alone. Is that the full story 433 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: we'll find out. Much has been made of the fact 434 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: that the opening statements are very long. Keep in mind, 435 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: there's so much to cover and it has to be 436 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: very thorough. She has to really take her time and 437 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: lay it all out there because one misstep could jeopardize 438 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: the whole case. All in all, Aji Caineppa's opening statement 439 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: runs nearly four hours long. The reaction from the media 440 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: swift and none too kind. Let's talk about the prosecution 441 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: and the storytelling, because we've had legal analysts on and 442 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: viewers have said the opening statement of the prosecution was 443 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,719 Speaker 1: very lengthy, somewhat confusing, pretty tedious about the details. It 444 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: wasn't what I would have done, which is to come 445 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: out say what the crime was tell them what the 446 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: crime was, who the victims were, who you think the 447 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: perpetrators are. I thought it could have been done much 448 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: more streamlined and more effectively. I was thinking to myself, 449 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, are these jurors going to be confused? 450 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: But had to be overwhelming. Much has been made about 451 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: Angie Kinneppo's maybe being too long winded, or she's giving 452 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: so much information that to your earlier point, it would 453 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: be really hard for a juror to kind of track 454 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: all of these details at the end of the day. 455 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: Mike Allen had a different take. You know a lot 456 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: of people lawyers too that I see it, said, Man, 457 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: how could she have given such a long opening statement? 458 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, she probably lost the jury, and opening statements 459 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: are never usually that long from the prosecutor. However, in 460 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: this case, there is so so much that she had 461 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: to unpack and tell that jury. And I was there 462 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: that day, I watched it. She did not lose that jury. 463 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: She didn't. They were just transfixed by what she was telling. 464 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Now let's stop here for another break. Angi Kinneppa may 465 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: already be planting seeds. One of the more rivetting aspects 466 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: of the opening statement is about the evidence the jury 467 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: will see in coming weeks. On the day after the 468 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: Wagners left for Alaska, search warrants were already in place 469 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: and police were combing the property for evidence. A neighbor 470 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: approached them and offered up a tip. The Wagner family 471 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: had put all of their belongings in trailers and parked 472 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: them off Route forty one. When please search these trailers, 473 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: they found a gold mine in a plastic tub labeled 474 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: quote important Things. They found custody documents and more. And 475 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: by custody documents, I mean documents that one would fill 476 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: out so that if anything happened to you, your children 477 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: would go to somebody. So there were documents that purported 478 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: to be signed by Hannah may that said if I die, 479 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: I want my child to go to Jake Ragan. That 480 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: piece of paper was dated as if Hannah Mae had 481 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: signed it on December twenty fourth of twenty fourteen, Christmas 482 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Eve twenty fourteen, which was really the last holiday that 483 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: she spent with the Wagoners. As she lays this out 484 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: to the jury, you can hear confidence in Kneppa's voice. 485 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: She stares them directly in the eye. The problem with that, 486 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: first of all, was that our handwriting people looked at 487 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: it and said that Hannah ma likely did not sign 488 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: that thing. But more importantly, it was printed off a 489 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: computer on April third of twenty sixteen. That piece of 490 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: paper didn't even exist until April third of twenty sixteen, 491 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: so it could not have been filled out in December 492 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen. April third of twenty sixteen, just a 493 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,719 Speaker 1: little over two weeks before the homicides. They're printing this 494 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: out so that if Hannah May would unexpectedly meet the 495 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: end would go to Jake. But what they found next 496 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: speaks to the question of who might be the instigator 497 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: of the entire massacre. But there were two other documents 498 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: that we found on that day which are extremely telling. 499 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: There were two documents, one that Jake filled out and 500 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: one that George filled out, and they were dated, I 501 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: believe in twenty fifteen March of twenty fifteen. But they 502 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: said for if he dies, he goes to Angela Wagner, 503 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: not Hannah May, almost like they knew Hannah Mae wasn't 504 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: going to be alive. That's one George Wagner also fills 505 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: out a custody document that if something happens to him 506 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: on the night of the murders, his child will go 507 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: to his mother. So they were anticipating whether they got arrested, 508 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: caught in the middle of the act, or something worse. 509 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: They wanted to make sure that custody of their children 510 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: was secure. On April third of twenty sixteen, all three 511 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: of those documents were printed out and filled out and 512 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: signed the Anjeanette Levy. We know that there were custody 513 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: documents drawn up that gave custody of Jake and Hannah 514 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: Mae's daughter to Angela. Should anything happen to Jake or George, 515 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: maybe and I say maybe, because I don't know. You 516 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: make it look like Jake did this and it was 517 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: a murder suicide. Or maybe you just take him out 518 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: because you want custody your granddaughter all to yourself. You 519 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: make him do the dirty work. I don't know, but 520 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 1: Billy is obviously somebody who's been described by Jeff Tackett 521 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: and other people as somebody who's capable of violence. For sure, 522 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: kill your own kid. We're going from more devented to 523 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: more devented. Angeli did not minimize her own involvement. In fact, 524 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: she will tell you that it was her idea to 525 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: begin with, and that she nagged and nagged and nagged 526 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: Billy to figure out a solution to the problem, the 527 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 1: problem being that we're losing control of the prosecution has 528 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: argued that you know this was a family affair, that 529 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: it was all for one, one for all. George Wagner 530 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: the Force lawyers disputed almost all of that. They also 531 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: pointed out that their client, despite facing eight aggravated murder charges, 532 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: is not believed to have killed anyone. George is an 533 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: outside George does not go along with what his family does, 534 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: and he didn't do it on that night. George is 535 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: not guilty of murder, and we believe when you've heard 536 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: all of the evidence, you will agree George had no 537 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: part in this murder, which you'll find him not guilty. 538 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 539 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat 540 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The piked In Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, 541 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott de Graus, Andrew Arnow and 542 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,959 Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff toa 543 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: music by Jared Aston. The Pikedon masker is a production 544 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Katy Studios. For more podcasts from 545 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 546 00:35:52,560 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome Markite 547 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: County Dogwin Festival. Queen Lord, I just thank you for 548 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: bringing us all together as a community. Okay, I'll sad. 549 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: There's blood all over the house. Who could have killed 550 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: eight family members in one night? I lost my best 551 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: friends and I will never be the same because of 552 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The 553 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. The 554 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was the 555 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: master mind? I'm telling you if a fer, I'm not 556 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller the town, 557 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,879 Speaker 1: the baker the sacreds. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, 558 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: The Pike County Murders, a family Massacre, premiering on NBC 559 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving 560 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: Day weekend November twenty fourth and November twenty fifth. Please 561 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: check your local listings and our hearts are with the 562 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: Rodents and the Gilly families.