WEBVTT - The Kavanaugh Confirmation. Mollie Hemingway talks to Armstrong & Getty 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:03.920 When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.560 know we're ready for you. Here are just a few 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:08.399 of the people at Metro to tell you how we're 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.320 doing our part to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:18.919 nevill before greatly. You've found half Santro, no mask, no 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.200 Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro. 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.079 We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving. 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.720 Find out more at well Matta dot com slash doing 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:33.160 our part. Molly Hemingway is a senior editor at The Federalist. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.240 We enjoy her work on Brett Bears Show Special Report 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.800 with Brett Bear. She is a thinker, she is a writer, 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.080 and she's written a brand new book about the Kavanaugh confirmation. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.400 And what a pleasure it is. Because four hours simply 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:52.800 usn't enough. This is Armstrong and Getty extra large. So 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.320 we've been trying to get Molly Hemingway on the Armstrong 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.080 and Getty Show for a very very long time. We 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.440 couldn't be bigger fans. For some reason, she's ducked us 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.920 all these years. Me finally, Wow, Wow, that's a fine. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.040 How do you do, Molly. I'd like to apologize for 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.360 the belligerence and aile manners of my co host, How 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.720 are you great, and it's great to be here with you. Well, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.559 we are actually very big fans of you. Your intelligence, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:17.120 your forcefulness in making your arguments. Also your occasional just 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.160 barely perceptible eye roll when you're there on a special 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:27.000 report and a particularly numb skulled confident has made. Your 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.720 lack of a poker face is more than appreciated. Yes, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.640 I've been told I need to work on that, but 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.320 I do, I do, my bet. Yeah, Well it's it's 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:41.280 it's absolutely a respectful exchange of ideas and not a 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.639 cable shouting match, which is why we like it so much. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:49.400 But the occasional glance by Molly Hemingway is appreciated. So anyway, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.920 So Molly Hemingway joined us today to talk about Justice 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.320 on Trial, the Kavanaugh confirmation, in the future of the 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.880 Supreme Court. And Molly, I've seen you talk about this 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.080 book and a couple of different settings, though I haven't 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.880 read it. But it's important that we soberly look at 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.480 that crazy couple of months that actually was a circus 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.480 and a national disgrace, as Kavanaugh described it. Why did 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.880 you decide to write the book right. My co author 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.800 Carrie Savarino, and I lived through the hearings. She was 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.560 working on the nomination, I was covering it. We knew 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.560 it was an important story. We we believe strongly it 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.560 was the most important thing to happen to the country 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.320 last year. We wanted to just get an accurate description 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.360 of what happened, learn what was going on behind the scenes. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.040 And we interviewed more than a hundred people, including the 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.440 President and vice president and members of the Supreme Court 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.160 and senators and people close to the Kavanaugh family and 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.000 the blasi Ford family, and just we're able to say 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.800 what happened and why it happened, and and get the 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.760 actual facts down before people forget them. Hey, I want 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:54.880 to get into the timeline and the various things and 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.480 when they happen in what order, and who knew what 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.920 when and what newspaper knew this but printed in anyway. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.200 All that stuff is interesting to me. But how close 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.160 did it ever come to them actually pull in Kavanaugh? 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.760 Did it ever get dicey? It definitely got dicey, but 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.280 it got dicey on the Senate side. It didn't get 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.720 dicey from the White House side. So the you know, 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.919 whatever else you want to say about the Trump administration, 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.079 they had kind of prepared for such a thing as 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.640 this type of confirmation battle. They had thoroughly vetted all 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.639 candidates for any kind of problems that could arise. They 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.280 knew their history enough to know that sometimes there are 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.480 last minute shenanigans where people try and pull you know, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.400 dirty tricks to sideline nominees, and they anticipated it, and 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.960 they were prepared, and perhaps no other administration in history 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.360 this was going to withstand this type of pressure like 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.560 this one. Whatever. There's hardly been another human being on earth, 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.960 let alone a president that was so, you know, perfect 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.720 for being able to withstand the slings and arrows of 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.680 one of these scandals. He's been living in his whole 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.880 adult life. He doesn't he doesn't go into a fetal 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.880 position when the media is on a roll with some 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.480 sex scandal. He's been doing this his whole life. So 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.240 that was perfect, exactly, and understanding the presumption of innocence 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.320 and why that's important, why people need to actually prove 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.080 allegations without them just being believed. But the Senate was not. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.880 They were not stalwarts. A lot of the senators were 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.440 ready to be ready to run throughout the process. You know, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.880 the story of Jeff Flake is well known about how 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.919 he was back and forth about all the elevator, But 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.560 there were other Republicans too that were that, we're kind 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.279 of wavering, and we'd tell the story of one senator 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.279 on the Senate Judiciary Committee who went to Susan Collins 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.080 and tried to get her to agree to go to 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.200 the White House and get and get them to pull 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.920 the Kavanaugh nomination. And she said that he did this 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.359 after Christie Lassie Ford testified and she said, I'd like 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.000 to wait until we hear from Brett Kavanaugh. Of course, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.839 so outrageous stalwart, but not everybody else was. Yeah. So listen, um, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.960 if you were to just describe the entire Kavanaugh circus 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.600 briefly for folks, well, if I were going to i'd 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.040 probably working back to Joseph Welchi was the guy who 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.080 famously asked Joseph McCarthy at long last, have you no 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.960 sense of decency? Um? Was this just an abandonment completely 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.840 of any sense of decency um in favor of just 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.480 achieving the end you want? I mean, it was so ugly, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.159 it was, and it was it got ugly very soon. 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.679 I think people forget what was happening early on. Within 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.400 moments of him being nominated, there was a big protests 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.680 that had been pre planned on the steps of the 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.960 Supreme Court. You had people announced that they were opposed 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.360 to his nomination before he before he had even been named. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.320 I mean, they were saying they would oppose anyone who 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.360 was a nominee, and so there were problems early on. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.640 There were people getting arrested. In the first round of hearing. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.880 Two people got arrested, people who were flown in from 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.240 out of out of the area to do protests where 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.880 they were um they had their bail paid for and 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.880 everything like that. So it was pretty chaotic from the beginning. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.760 I'm trying to figure out where's the timeline on this 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.440 whole thing, because there was the piece that came out 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:06.960 was at the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.240 about al frank and Stewart Smalley and how so many 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.360 people regret it. Regret that now it makes you understand 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.640 the Kavanaugh thing and the al Franken thing, how the 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.760 which trials happened, I mean, because we get into these fevers. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.000 Apparently now most Democrats look back on the al Franken 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:23.840 thing and think what were we doing? Why did we 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.839 run him out of office? And al Franken's thinking, why 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:27.520 didn't I stand up to that? So but that was 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.080 the that was the era and setting we were in 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.600 for this whole Kavanaugh thing, right, Oh well, it's even 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.279 more than that. And I actually found I'm very sympathetic 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.560 to the idea that al Franken got. Rail wrote it 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.680 that people were just in a mob hysteria type moment 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.080 and that he had to be the sacrificial lamb because 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.960 of the way that politicians have been playing up the 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.000 you know, the me too moment. But the woman who 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.320 wrote that piece in The New Yorker, Jane Mayor, was 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.839 one of the prime instigators of the Kavanaugh mob awesome, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.839 And she wrote the second piece you know, so first 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.000 of Christie blasi Ford come out. She writes this other 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.920 piece about a second accuser who spent six days alone 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.240 with her attorney to come up with an allegation. She 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.280 was very foggy on anything, She had nobody to corroborate 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.080 her story. And Jane Mayer published that story in the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.400 pages of New Yorker and said that she did it 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.520 precisely to show a pattern of alleged misconduct, which is 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.800 not a journalistic standard that I would encourage people to uphold. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:27.760 So it's great that she has come late to the 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.920 notion that people should be innocent until proven guilty and 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.160 the due process matters. But she is the last person 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.880 on earth I would have making that case, given how 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.360 she was not just about Kavanaugh, but also she was, 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.160 of course the author of one of the worst books 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.280 about Justice Thomas uh from decades. Well, I'm glad you 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.800 pointed that out, So would you? Was that your Is 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.200 that what you'd say as the most immoral and disgusting 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.000 um the episode within the greater story? Or do you 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.400 have another that's a favorite? Well, there were lot of 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.520 There was a lot of media misbehavior in this story, 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.720 and of course it's very important to take any allegations seriously, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.520 to investigate them and think about whether you are truly 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.880 about to nominate someone too. Are you're putting someone on 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.920 the Supreme Court who is a serial rapist, which is 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.840 where the allegations got by the end, regularly participates in 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.840 gang rapes. That's where we were of a leader of 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.640 a gang rape cartel that roamed the suburbs of Maryland. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.920 Was was the allegation made by Michael Abanati and his client, 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.720 Julie sweat Nick. And yes, they were referred for criminal 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.959 prosecution for making that false claim. Um, and so were 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.920 a few other people who made false claims against Kavanaugh. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.280 But it's one thing to make the false claim. It's 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.280 another thing that you had people who really should have 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.599 been more sensible believing the claim or publishing it or 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.320 putting it out there. And NBC News knew at the time, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.800 you know, before the confirmation. They knew that Michael Abanati's 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.440 supposed witness, second witness who would corrobor these crazy allegations. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.640 They knew she was saying that he what he claimed 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.760 about her was not true. But they sat on that 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.240 for weeks. They knew it before the confirmation vote, and 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.560 then they kind of like put it out quietly a 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.360 few weeks after he was confirmed. And again, that's just 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.520 really bad behavior that decreases people's trust in the media 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.719 to accurately. Oh my god, that's beyond bad behavior. You've 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.439 got to get out of the business. If you're willing 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.680 to do something that's not biased, that's that's that's crime. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.439 It's from It's astounding, yeah, that that should be criminally 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.240 prosecutable for ruining a person's life and image and reputation 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.360 and everything like that. Um what I remember this story barely, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.160 and this one was so amazing to me that a letter, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.800 it was in a just in an envelope to a 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.600 newspaper and that was pretty much all the information, you know, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.280 scrawled on their Kavanaugh raped me and that was about it, 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.120 and newspapers were willing to run with it. Was that 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.160 what was that whole story? I wouldn't say it was 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.000 quite that bad. But what was interesting is Christine Blossi 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.880 Ford sends a letter to her representative. She claimed she's 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.000 unclear on how to reach a U. S. Senator. She's 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.480 a little bit of a weird claim to make, given 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.600 that she's a PhD uh, you know, she's a professor 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.800 at a university. It's kind of odd to claim that 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:11.880 you don't know how to reach your own U. S. Senator. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.839 Her representative and as she puts her in contact with 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.360 Senator Diane Feinstein, the ranking member on the Senate Judiciary Committee. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.400 And that's where things get really weird because she writes 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.440 this letter to find Stein at the end of July, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.280 she says she doesn't want her name to be out publicly. 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.360 I while the Senate has a process for how to 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.719 handle allegations against nominees, it's completely confidential, and it is 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.520 actually it goes through the FBI. Um, but everyone's kept 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.000 all the information is kept confidential. It protects the accuser 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.800 and the accused, and you can actually investiga into claim. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.000 And Diane Feinstein, for some reason, circumvents that process. Instead, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.319 she connects the accuser with a high profile attorney who's 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.320 known for rolling out um like pr campaigns against against 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.240 high profile men who are accused her sexual misconduct. They 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.200 circumment the process that would have kept it confidential, and 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.560 then they arranged for a big PIA rollout, which was 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.280 against the stated interests of the accuser. Now, it is 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.080 also true that the accuser are saying that she didn't 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.280 want her name to be public or anything to be public. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.959 The first call she made was to the Washington Post 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.760 in early July. So there, you know, there's reason to 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.400 think that maybe what she claimed she wanted was a 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.360 bit at odds with her behavior. But um but either way, 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.760 her stated her stated preference was did not have her 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.760 name be public and everybody who had the information set 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.600 about to make it public, and that was unfortunate. It's 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.240 probably a minor point, but do you have an idea 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.360 an opinion on whether di fi herself was the engine 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.840 for that or was it activist staffers that are going 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.560 behind the old gal's back. Oh so, we you know, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.880 we interviewed a lot of people involved in the process, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.120 senators and their staff. They all actually speak extremely well 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.839 of Diane Feinstein and extremely poorly about her staff. But 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.319 they feel that her staff was taking advantage of her 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:02.200 that um, that she's older, she her she throughout the day, 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.280 maybe it gets more tired and whatnot, and they felt 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.320 that the staff was taking advantage of that situation to 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.000 do things in her name that were not what she 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.400 would want. And we had many examples that's how she 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.079 would negotiate things that were actually favorable to Democrats throughout 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.240 the process, and her staff would then renegotiate it in 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.520 a way that was so absurd that the Republicans just 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.040 sort of stopped working with them. Um. And they really 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.120 a lot of people had a higher regard for her 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.520 than they did her staff, and they really felt that 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.760 that in fact they get so upset about this. At 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.200 one point, we tell the story of a bunch of 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.520 senators who literally almost physically fight each other. They're so 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.640 frustrated about what's happening and that disconnect between the minority 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.800 staff and the majority staff. You know, I expect politicians 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.439 to behave badly and uh, maybe I should hold them 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:54.439 to higher standards and expect more, but I expect them 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.199 to But maybe it's because I'm in media. I expect 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.080 the media to be better. And I was speaking of 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.360 the particular letter that went to the San Diego Union 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.920 Tribune that showed up. It was to Kamala Harris's office, 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.520 then got forward to the San Diego Union Tribune. There 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.160 was just an accusation that Kavanaugh and a buddy of 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.119 his raped me, and it just it had no information, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.120 was unsigned, I think it was. I was unsigned. It 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.080 had no return just so it had nothing and it 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.600 actually made it into the into the into the media 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.080 and got talked about that. I mean, that's just disgraceful. 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.920 It's really that all standards were thrown out the window 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.199 for how to handle something just because I guess people 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.360 thought that reputational harm was not a big deal or 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.800 that it was justified because of political reasons, like political opposition. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.080 But there were all sorts of allegations. You had people 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.760 making claims. I think I just heard when you mentioned 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:47.800 the claim that there was a rape on a boat 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.559 in a in a state that, like Kavanaugh, had never 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.480 even been rod And the senator takes it to the 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.880 to Chuck Grassley, but he also releases it to the 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.880 media who run with it. And and these are the 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:02.800 types of things. You know. Anyone can make an allegation, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.400 and it's important for people who are gatekeepers like the 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.679 media to investigate the claim and decide whether it is 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.480 it meets the standard of should this be published? And 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.760 there was not a lot of that going on. And 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.960 that's very unfortunate because there is real harm caused by 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.560 reputational damage. You said, there was no buckling of out 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.120 of the White House. They didn't get close to pulling Kavanaugh. 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.440 How close did Kavanaugh come to us saying and I 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.960 don't need this is his wife or friends or whoever 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.200 egging him on saying just get out. We report that 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.800 when he was being considered for the nomination, his wife 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.200 actually prayed that he wouldn't get the nomination. They had 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.680 gone through two very different difficult confirmation battles years prior 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.920 he had a lifetime appointment on a federal court. Their 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.920 life was really good. She just didn't want to go 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.600 through it again, and that was before she had any 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.960 idea how bad it would get. But he always had 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.120 this idea that he would give it his best for everything, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:58.960 so he just, you know, if he was upsloord, he 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:00.240 was going to try and get it. If he doesn't 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.600 get it, that's fine. And then once he gets the nomination, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.760 he's going to try and actually make it through the process. 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.880 And if he doesn't, that's fine. Um, there is a change. 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.240 So he he was never going to back out, and 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.560 he had the support of his family, but there was 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.640 this change you saw in the reopened hearing where it's 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.480 not even about getting to sit on the Supreme Court, 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.240 but really about whether he's going to be able to 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.400 be around children anymore. You know, at that point you 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.600 have the media saying that he shouldn't be around children, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.360 like I don't even know where they were coming up 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.160 with some of these things. He shouldn't be coaching his 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.360 daughter's basketball team and that sort of thing with with 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.760 his background, what a terrible thing to say about a 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.600 Oh my god, Um did you did? You got more 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.840 emotional about it at that point? Yeah, yeah, I would too. 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.200 I he was pretty emotional, as we all remember in 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.680 that hearing, But I would have been I might have 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.680 physically attacked somebody. You start telling me I can't be 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.880 around my kid's friends because I'm so dangerous, such a 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.440 sexual predator. That'd make you insane? Did you do you 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.480 ever talk to anybody in journalism say I gotta ask you, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:01.880 how did you sit on that story or you knew 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.000 that probably wasn't true? How did how did you? How 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.480 do you live with yourself? Well, that's one of the 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.600 things that does bother us that we look at, is 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.240 how prior to the confirmation you have this feeding frenzy 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.720 of stories, all alleging really serious wrongdoing. The moment he's confirmed, 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.120 it all just goes away. And you have to wonder 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.880 there if it were bad that someone were being considered 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.480 for the Supreme Court who had these allegations, so much 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.880 worse if they actually are on the court. So there's 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.280 no reason why the story should have stopped if they 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.400 believed them to be true and that they didn't pursue 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.480 the stories and it just kind of disappeared. And even 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.080 you know, we we wrote this book. It's a number 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.480 one best seller, and the New York Times in Washington 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.320 Posts have admitted that in their best seller lists, but 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.440 they haven't covered the news that we break about, um 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.000 about what happened behind the scenes. You know normally when 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:54.400 you interview Supreme Court justices and key players. When you're 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.840 ready to ride Metro, we want you to know we're 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.160 ready for you. Here are just a few of the 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.280 people at Metro to tell you how we're doing our 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.040 part to keep righters safe. We're cleaning like Noble before 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.560 half builded greatly. You've found hand sign of stations Metro, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.440 no mask, no Metro need one. We have a few 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.280 extras at Metro. We're doing our part to keep the 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.040 DC area moving. Find out more at well mata dot 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:25.240 com slash doing our part. For all your foodies out there, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.440 I'm unwrapping a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel. Look 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.320 at this steak and the juice running down the side. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.679 Get a little bit on a wrapper here, m and 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.800 then the fluffy egg and real cheese folded over the side, 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:43.119 looking just so good. Mmm mmm grilled onions on a 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.960 butt of bagel too thumbs off a McDonald steak, egg 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.159 and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love It, m boup. I 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.400 participate in McDonald's. It's a major news story. You would 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.399 get some media coverage, and they're not even covering the book, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.679 which is a big, big thing with a lot of 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.520 news that is broken in it that has never been 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.720 reported before, about Kennedy's retirement, or about Christine blasi Ford's 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.879 friends not believing her. I mean, these are things that 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.400 are just reported that should be covered and they're not 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.360 even acknowledging them. Well, that would open up, That would 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.520 open up, Yeah, exactly, that would open up a can 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.720 of worms that they'd have to account for. Well, I'd say, 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.920 given the seriousness of what you're writing about in the 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.800 the impact that it's had to ignore it is well, 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:31.000 it speaks louder than words. Honestly, Um, you're you're a 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.760 serious journalist, so you might not be willing to go here. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.320 How nutty is blasi Ford? I mean, as you looked 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.800 into her life and her friends, my my personal take 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.639 was she believed what she was saying. That doesn't mean 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.040 it happened. I think she believed it though I don't know. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.639 I don't know, and we definitely don't get into into 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.800 pretending like we can know what was going on inside 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.040 someone's brain or whatnot. But we did talk to a 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:55.879 lot of people who are friends with her, and they 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.000 painted a really mixed picture. They all actually really like her, 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.600 and they thought she was a nice person. They did 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.560 acknowledge that she was very political, very motivated by her 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.320 support of abortion, that she scrubbed her Facebook page before 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:13.760 she went public, um that her behavior, her description of herself, 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.040 for her characterization of herself in high school was at 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.080 odds with what they remembered. But you know, there are 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.480 people who are lifelong friends, and they painted a pretty 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.760 complicated picture. She had no evidence to support her allegations, 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.359 and she named four people, including a lifelong friend who said, 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.080 not only did she not remember such an occasion, she 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.359 remembered the summer quite well, and for her not to 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.680 remember anything matching this description was notable. That friend also 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.040 reported that she had been pressured to change her story 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.600 by mutual acquaintances of the two that she didn't appreciate 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.040 that pressure. So these were you know, these are all 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.560 things that we cover in the book and it's um, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.240 it's important and noteworthy. Well and and Ms Blasi Ford 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.040 and I do not know what happened. I was not there. 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.680 And crazy people get raped and sluts it raped, and 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.960 and whoever perpetrates that sort of thing ought to be 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.480 punished severely. But she had some pretty severe emotional problems too. Um, 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.879 I mean just credibility. Why she's a little nutty, as 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.879 Jack said, but I know you you don't want to 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.199 go there. Just no, it's it's not I don't know 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.840 if it's emotional. I would just say that Rachel Mitchell, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.119 the sex crimes prosecutor who does the forensic interview of 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:26.399 her very difficult circumstances of live national television, impossible to 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.240 explore some of the inconsistencies. For instance, we were told 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.080 that the hearing had to be delayed because of a 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.400 of a terrifying, crippling fear of flying. Right, And she 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.199