1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: know we're ready for you. Here are just a few 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: of the people at Metro to tell you how we're 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: nevill before greatly. You've found half Santro, no mask, no 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro. 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving. 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Find out more at well Matta dot com slash doing 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: our part. Molly Hemingway is a senior editor at The Federalist. 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: We enjoy her work on Brett Bears Show Special Report 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: with Brett Bear. She is a thinker, she is a writer, 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: and she's written a brand new book about the Kavanaugh confirmation. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: And what a pleasure it is. Because four hours simply 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: usn't enough. This is Armstrong and Getty extra large. So 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: we've been trying to get Molly Hemingway on the Armstrong 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: and Getty Show for a very very long time. We 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: couldn't be bigger fans. For some reason, she's ducked us 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: all these years. Me finally, Wow, Wow, that's a fine. 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: How do you do, Molly. I'd like to apologize for 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: the belligerence and aile manners of my co host, How 21 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: are you great, and it's great to be here with you. Well, 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: we are actually very big fans of you. Your intelligence, 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: your forcefulness in making your arguments. Also your occasional just 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: barely perceptible eye roll when you're there on a special 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: report and a particularly numb skulled confident has made. Your 26 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: lack of a poker face is more than appreciated. Yes, 27 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: I've been told I need to work on that, but 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: I do, I do, my bet. Yeah, Well it's it's 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: it's absolutely a respectful exchange of ideas and not a 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 1: cable shouting match, which is why we like it so much. 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: But the occasional glance by Molly Hemingway is appreciated. So anyway, 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: So Molly Hemingway joined us today to talk about Justice 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: on Trial, the Kavanaugh confirmation, in the future of the 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. And Molly, I've seen you talk about this 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: book and a couple of different settings, though I haven't 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: read it. But it's important that we soberly look at 37 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: that crazy couple of months that actually was a circus 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: and a national disgrace, as Kavanaugh described it. Why did 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: you decide to write the book right. My co author 40 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: Carrie Savarino, and I lived through the hearings. She was 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: working on the nomination, I was covering it. We knew 42 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: it was an important story. We we believe strongly it 43 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: was the most important thing to happen to the country 44 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: last year. We wanted to just get an accurate description 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: of what happened, learn what was going on behind the scenes. 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: And we interviewed more than a hundred people, including the 47 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: President and vice president and members of the Supreme Court 48 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: and senators and people close to the Kavanaugh family and 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: the blasi Ford family, and just we're able to say 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: what happened and why it happened, and and get the 51 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: actual facts down before people forget them. Hey, I want 52 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: to get into the timeline and the various things and 53 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: when they happen in what order, and who knew what 54 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: when and what newspaper knew this but printed in anyway. 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: All that stuff is interesting to me. But how close 56 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: did it ever come to them actually pull in Kavanaugh? 57 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: Did it ever get dicey? It definitely got dicey, but 58 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: it got dicey on the Senate side. It didn't get 59 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: dicey from the White House side. So the you know, 60 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: whatever else you want to say about the Trump administration, 61 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: they had kind of prepared for such a thing as 62 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: this type of confirmation battle. They had thoroughly vetted all 63 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: candidates for any kind of problems that could arise. They 64 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: knew their history enough to know that sometimes there are 65 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: last minute shenanigans where people try and pull you know, 66 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: dirty tricks to sideline nominees, and they anticipated it, and 67 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: they were prepared, and perhaps no other administration in history 68 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: this was going to withstand this type of pressure like 69 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: this one. Whatever. There's hardly been another human being on earth, 70 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: let alone a president that was so, you know, perfect 71 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: for being able to withstand the slings and arrows of 72 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: one of these scandals. He's been living in his whole 73 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: adult life. He doesn't he doesn't go into a fetal 74 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: position when the media is on a roll with some 75 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: sex scandal. He's been doing this his whole life. So 76 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: that was perfect, exactly, and understanding the presumption of innocence 77 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: and why that's important, why people need to actually prove 78 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: allegations without them just being believed. But the Senate was not. 79 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: They were not stalwarts. A lot of the senators were 80 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: ready to be ready to run throughout the process. You know, 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: the story of Jeff Flake is well known about how 82 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: he was back and forth about all the elevator, But 83 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: there were other Republicans too that were that, we're kind 84 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: of wavering, and we'd tell the story of one senator 85 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: on the Senate Judiciary Committee who went to Susan Collins 86 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: and tried to get her to agree to go to 87 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: the White House and get and get them to pull 88 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: the Kavanaugh nomination. And she said that he did this 89 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: after Christie Lassie Ford testified and she said, I'd like 90 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: to wait until we hear from Brett Kavanaugh. Of course, 91 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: so outrageous stalwart, but not everybody else was. Yeah. So listen, um, 92 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: if you were to just describe the entire Kavanaugh circus 93 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: briefly for folks, well, if I were going to i'd 94 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: probably working back to Joseph Welchi was the guy who 95 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: famously asked Joseph McCarthy at long last, have you no 96 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: sense of decency? Um? Was this just an abandonment completely 97 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: of any sense of decency um in favor of just 98 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: achieving the end you want? I mean, it was so ugly, 99 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: it was, and it was it got ugly very soon. 100 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,679 Speaker 1: I think people forget what was happening early on. Within 101 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: moments of him being nominated, there was a big protests 102 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: that had been pre planned on the steps of the 103 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. You had people announced that they were opposed 104 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: to his nomination before he before he had even been named. 105 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: I mean, they were saying they would oppose anyone who 106 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: was a nominee, and so there were problems early on. 107 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: There were people getting arrested. In the first round of hearing. 108 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: Two people got arrested, people who were flown in from 109 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: out of out of the area to do protests where 110 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: they were um they had their bail paid for and 111 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: everything like that. So it was pretty chaotic from the beginning. 112 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out where's the timeline on this 113 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: whole thing, because there was the piece that came out 114 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: was at the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago 115 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: about al frank and Stewart Smalley and how so many 116 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: people regret it. Regret that now it makes you understand 117 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: the Kavanaugh thing and the al Franken thing, how the 118 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: which trials happened, I mean, because we get into these fevers. 119 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: Apparently now most Democrats look back on the al Franken 120 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: thing and think what were we doing? Why did we 121 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: run him out of office? And al Franken's thinking, why 122 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: didn't I stand up to that? So but that was 123 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: the that was the era and setting we were in 124 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: for this whole Kavanaugh thing, right, Oh well, it's even 125 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: more than that. And I actually found I'm very sympathetic 126 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: to the idea that al Franken got. Rail wrote it 127 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: that people were just in a mob hysteria type moment 128 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: and that he had to be the sacrificial lamb because 129 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: of the way that politicians have been playing up the 130 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, the me too moment. But the woman who 131 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: wrote that piece in The New Yorker, Jane Mayor, was 132 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: one of the prime instigators of the Kavanaugh mob awesome, 133 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: And she wrote the second piece you know, so first 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: of Christie blasi Ford come out. She writes this other 135 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: piece about a second accuser who spent six days alone 136 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: with her attorney to come up with an allegation. She 137 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: was very foggy on anything, She had nobody to corroborate 138 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: her story. And Jane Mayer published that story in the 139 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: pages of New Yorker and said that she did it 140 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: precisely to show a pattern of alleged misconduct, which is 141 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: not a journalistic standard that I would encourage people to uphold. 142 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: So it's great that she has come late to the 143 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: notion that people should be innocent until proven guilty and 144 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: the due process matters. But she is the last person 145 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: on earth I would have making that case, given how 146 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: she was not just about Kavanaugh, but also she was, 147 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: of course the author of one of the worst books 148 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: about Justice Thomas uh from decades. Well, I'm glad you 149 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: pointed that out, So would you? Was that your Is 150 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: that what you'd say as the most immoral and disgusting 151 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: um the episode within the greater story? Or do you 152 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: have another that's a favorite? Well, there were lot of 153 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: There was a lot of media misbehavior in this story, 154 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: and of course it's very important to take any allegations seriously, 155 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: to investigate them and think about whether you are truly 156 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: about to nominate someone too. Are you're putting someone on 157 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court who is a serial rapist, which is 158 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: where the allegations got by the end, regularly participates in 159 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: gang rapes. That's where we were of a leader of 160 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: a gang rape cartel that roamed the suburbs of Maryland. 161 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: Was was the allegation made by Michael Abanati and his client, 162 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: Julie sweat Nick. And yes, they were referred for criminal 163 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: prosecution for making that false claim. Um, and so were 164 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: a few other people who made false claims against Kavanaugh. 165 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: But it's one thing to make the false claim. It's 166 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: another thing that you had people who really should have 167 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: been more sensible believing the claim or publishing it or 168 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: putting it out there. And NBC News knew at the time, 169 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, before the confirmation. They knew that Michael Abanati's 170 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: supposed witness, second witness who would corrobor these crazy allegations. 171 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: They knew she was saying that he what he claimed 172 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: about her was not true. But they sat on that 173 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: for weeks. They knew it before the confirmation vote, and 174 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: then they kind of like put it out quietly a 175 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: few weeks after he was confirmed. And again, that's just 176 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: really bad behavior that decreases people's trust in the media 177 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: to accurately. Oh my god, that's beyond bad behavior. You've 178 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: got to get out of the business. If you're willing 179 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: to do something that's not biased, that's that's that's crime. 180 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: It's from It's astounding, yeah, that that should be criminally 181 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: prosecutable for ruining a person's life and image and reputation 182 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: and everything like that. Um what I remember this story barely, 183 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: and this one was so amazing to me that a letter, 184 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: it was in a just in an envelope to a 185 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: newspaper and that was pretty much all the information, you know, 186 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: scrawled on their Kavanaugh raped me and that was about it, 187 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: and newspapers were willing to run with it. Was that 188 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: what was that whole story? I wouldn't say it was 189 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: quite that bad. But what was interesting is Christine Blossi 190 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: Ford sends a letter to her representative. She claimed she's 191 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: unclear on how to reach a U. S. Senator. She's 192 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of a weird claim to make, given 193 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: that she's a PhD uh, you know, she's a professor 194 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: at a university. It's kind of odd to claim that 195 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: you don't know how to reach your own U. S. Senator. 196 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: Her representative and as she puts her in contact with 197 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: Senator Diane Feinstein, the ranking member on the Senate Judiciary Committee. 198 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: And that's where things get really weird because she writes 199 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: this letter to find Stein at the end of July, 200 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: she says she doesn't want her name to be out publicly. 201 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: I while the Senate has a process for how to 202 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: handle allegations against nominees, it's completely confidential, and it is 203 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: actually it goes through the FBI. Um, but everyone's kept 204 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: all the information is kept confidential. It protects the accuser 205 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: and the accused, and you can actually investiga into claim. 206 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: And Diane Feinstein, for some reason, circumvents that process. Instead, 207 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: she connects the accuser with a high profile attorney who's 208 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: known for rolling out um like pr campaigns against against 209 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: high profile men who are accused her sexual misconduct. They 210 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: circumment the process that would have kept it confidential, and 211 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: then they arranged for a big PIA rollout, which was 212 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: against the stated interests of the accuser. Now, it is 213 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: also true that the accuser are saying that she didn't 214 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: want her name to be public or anything to be public. 215 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: The first call she made was to the Washington Post 216 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: in early July. So there, you know, there's reason to 217 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: think that maybe what she claimed she wanted was a 218 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: bit at odds with her behavior. But um but either way, 219 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: her stated her stated preference was did not have her 220 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: name be public and everybody who had the information set 221 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: about to make it public, and that was unfortunate. It's 222 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: probably a minor point, but do you have an idea 223 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: an opinion on whether di fi herself was the engine 224 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: for that or was it activist staffers that are going 225 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: behind the old gal's back. Oh so, we you know, 226 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: we interviewed a lot of people involved in the process, 227 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: senators and their staff. They all actually speak extremely well 228 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: of Diane Feinstein and extremely poorly about her staff. But 229 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: they feel that her staff was taking advantage of her 230 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: that um, that she's older, she her she throughout the day, 231 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: maybe it gets more tired and whatnot, and they felt 232 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: that the staff was taking advantage of that situation to 233 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: do things in her name that were not what she 234 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: would want. And we had many examples that's how she 235 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: would negotiate things that were actually favorable to Democrats throughout 236 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: the process, and her staff would then renegotiate it in 237 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: a way that was so absurd that the Republicans just 238 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: sort of stopped working with them. Um. And they really 239 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people had a higher regard for her 240 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: than they did her staff, and they really felt that 241 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: that in fact they get so upset about this. At 242 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: one point, we tell the story of a bunch of 243 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: senators who literally almost physically fight each other. They're so 244 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: frustrated about what's happening and that disconnect between the minority 245 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: staff and the majority staff. You know, I expect politicians 246 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: to behave badly and uh, maybe I should hold them 247 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: to higher standards and expect more, but I expect them 248 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: to But maybe it's because I'm in media. I expect 249 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: the media to be better. And I was speaking of 250 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: the particular letter that went to the San Diego Union 251 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: Tribune that showed up. It was to Kamala Harris's office, 252 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: then got forward to the San Diego Union Tribune. There 253 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: was just an accusation that Kavanaugh and a buddy of 254 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,119 Speaker 1: his raped me, and it just it had no information, 255 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: was unsigned, I think it was. I was unsigned. It 256 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: had no return just so it had nothing and it 257 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: actually made it into the into the into the media 258 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: and got talked about that. I mean, that's just disgraceful. 259 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: It's really that all standards were thrown out the window 260 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: for how to handle something just because I guess people 261 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: thought that reputational harm was not a big deal or 262 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: that it was justified because of political reasons, like political opposition. 263 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: But there were all sorts of allegations. You had people 264 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: making claims. I think I just heard when you mentioned 265 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: the claim that there was a rape on a boat 266 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: in a in a state that, like Kavanaugh, had never 267 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: even been rod And the senator takes it to the 268 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: to Chuck Grassley, but he also releases it to the 269 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: media who run with it. And and these are the 270 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: types of things. You know. Anyone can make an allegation, 271 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: and it's important for people who are gatekeepers like the 272 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: media to investigate the claim and decide whether it is 273 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: it meets the standard of should this be published? And 274 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: there was not a lot of that going on. And 275 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: that's very unfortunate because there is real harm caused by 276 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: reputational damage. You said, there was no buckling of out 277 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: of the White House. They didn't get close to pulling Kavanaugh. 278 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: How close did Kavanaugh come to us saying and I 279 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: don't need this is his wife or friends or whoever 280 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: egging him on saying just get out. We report that 281 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: when he was being considered for the nomination, his wife 282 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: actually prayed that he wouldn't get the nomination. They had 283 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: gone through two very different difficult confirmation battles years prior 284 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: he had a lifetime appointment on a federal court. Their 285 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: life was really good. She just didn't want to go 286 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: through it again, and that was before she had any 287 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: idea how bad it would get. But he always had 288 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: this idea that he would give it his best for everything, 289 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: so he just, you know, if he was upsloord, he 290 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: was going to try and get it. If he doesn't 291 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: get it, that's fine. And then once he gets the nomination, 292 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: he's going to try and actually make it through the process. 293 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: And if he doesn't, that's fine. Um, there is a change. 294 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: So he he was never going to back out, and 295 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: he had the support of his family, but there was 296 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: this change you saw in the reopened hearing where it's 297 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: not even about getting to sit on the Supreme Court, 298 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: but really about whether he's going to be able to 299 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: be around children anymore. You know, at that point you 300 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: have the media saying that he shouldn't be around children, 301 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: like I don't even know where they were coming up 302 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: with some of these things. He shouldn't be coaching his 303 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: daughter's basketball team and that sort of thing with with 304 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: his background, what a terrible thing to say about a 305 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Um did you did? You got more 306 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: emotional about it at that point? Yeah, yeah, I would too. 307 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: I he was pretty emotional, as we all remember in 308 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: that hearing, But I would have been I might have 309 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: physically attacked somebody. You start telling me I can't be 310 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: around my kid's friends because I'm so dangerous, such a 311 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: sexual predator. That'd make you insane? Did you do you 312 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: ever talk to anybody in journalism say I gotta ask you, 313 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: how did you sit on that story or you knew 314 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: that probably wasn't true? How did how did you? How 315 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: do you live with yourself? Well, that's one of the 316 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: things that does bother us that we look at, is 317 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: how prior to the confirmation you have this feeding frenzy 318 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: of stories, all alleging really serious wrongdoing. The moment he's confirmed, 319 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: it all just goes away. And you have to wonder 320 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: there if it were bad that someone were being considered 321 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court who had these allegations, so much 322 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: worse if they actually are on the court. So there's 323 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: no reason why the story should have stopped if they 324 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: believed them to be true and that they didn't pursue 325 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: the stories and it just kind of disappeared. And even 326 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, we we wrote this book. It's a number 327 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: one best seller, and the New York Times in Washington 328 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: Posts have admitted that in their best seller lists, but 329 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: they haven't covered the news that we break about, um 330 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: about what happened behind the scenes. You know normally when 331 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: you interview Supreme Court justices and key players. When you're 332 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: ready to ride Metro, we want you to know we're 333 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: ready for you. Here are just a few of the 334 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: people at Metro to tell you how we're doing our 335 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: part to keep righters safe. We're cleaning like Noble before 336 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: half builded greatly. You've found hand sign of stations Metro, 337 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: no mask, no Metro need one. We have a few 338 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: extras at Metro. We're doing our part to keep the 339 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: DC area moving. Find out more at well mata dot 340 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: com slash doing our part. For all your foodies out there, 341 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm unwrapping a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel. Look 342 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: at this steak and the juice running down the side. 343 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: Get a little bit on a wrapper here, m and 344 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: then the fluffy egg and real cheese folded over the side, 345 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: looking just so good. Mmm mmm grilled onions on a 346 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: butt of bagel too thumbs off a McDonald steak, egg 347 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love It, m boup. I 348 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: participate in McDonald's. It's a major news story. You would 349 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: get some media coverage, and they're not even covering the book, 350 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: which is a big, big thing with a lot of 351 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: news that is broken in it that has never been 352 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: reported before, about Kennedy's retirement, or about Christine blasi Ford's 353 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: friends not believing her. I mean, these are things that 354 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: are just reported that should be covered and they're not 355 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: even acknowledging them. Well, that would open up, That would 356 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: open up, Yeah, exactly, that would open up a can 357 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: of worms that they'd have to account for. Well, I'd say, 358 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: given the seriousness of what you're writing about in the 359 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: the impact that it's had to ignore it is well, 360 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: it speaks louder than words. Honestly, Um, you're you're a 361 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: serious journalist, so you might not be willing to go here. 362 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: How nutty is blasi Ford? I mean, as you looked 363 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: into her life and her friends, my my personal take 364 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: was she believed what she was saying. That doesn't mean 365 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: it happened. I think she believed it though I don't know. 366 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: I don't know, and we definitely don't get into into 367 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: pretending like we can know what was going on inside 368 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: someone's brain or whatnot. But we did talk to a 369 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: lot of people who are friends with her, and they 370 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: painted a really mixed picture. They all actually really like her, 371 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: and they thought she was a nice person. They did 372 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: acknowledge that she was very political, very motivated by her 373 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: support of abortion, that she scrubbed her Facebook page before 374 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: she went public, um that her behavior, her description of herself, 375 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: for her characterization of herself in high school was at 376 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: odds with what they remembered. But you know, there are 377 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: people who are lifelong friends, and they painted a pretty 378 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: complicated picture. She had no evidence to support her allegations, 379 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: and she named four people, including a lifelong friend who said, 380 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: not only did she not remember such an occasion, she 381 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: remembered the summer quite well, and for her not to 382 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: remember anything matching this description was notable. That friend also 383 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: reported that she had been pressured to change her story 384 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: by mutual acquaintances of the two that she didn't appreciate 385 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: that pressure. So these were you know, these are all 386 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: things that we cover in the book and it's um, 387 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: it's important and noteworthy. Well and and Ms Blasi Ford 388 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: and I do not know what happened. I was not there. 389 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: And crazy people get raped and sluts it raped, and 390 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: and whoever perpetrates that sort of thing ought to be 391 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: punished severely. But she had some pretty severe emotional problems too. Um, 392 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: I mean just credibility. Why she's a little nutty, as 393 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: Jack said, but I know you you don't want to 394 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: go there. Just no, it's it's not I don't know 395 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: if it's emotional. I would just say that Rachel Mitchell, 396 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: the sex crimes prosecutor who does the forensic interview of 397 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: her very difficult circumstances of live national television, impossible to 398 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: explore some of the inconsistencies. For instance, we were told 399 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: that the hearing had to be delayed because of a 400 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: of a terrifying, crippling fear of flying. Right, And she 401 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: points out that not only did she fly all the 402 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: time for professional reasons, she does it for personal reasons, 403 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: and lists her primary hobby as international surf travel, which 404 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: involves not just flying, but like flying over large expanses 405 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: of the Pacific Ocean and island hopping and so the 406 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: claims that were made were at odds with the reality 407 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: um that she herself testified to. It's a very generous 408 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: way to put it. So this is just an opinion 409 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: question to you, as an acute observer of the political scene, 410 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: it seems to me that this trend can't continue much further. 411 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: Oh my god, unless you accuse somebody of being Hitler 412 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: reincarnate or the anti Christ. You can't go much further 413 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: than that. Yet, where does it go from here? Well, 414 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: and this has happened before. You saw this in the 415 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: Bork hearings, the Thomas hearings. Uh, there were other other 416 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: hearings where you've seen some pretty outlandish claims that are made. Um, 417 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: it happened here. I think people would be naive to 418 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: think it won't happen in the future. One of the 419 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: things we show is that it tends to happen not 420 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: because of particular nominees so much as when there's an 421 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: ideological shifts in play for the for the court. So 422 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: Neil gors Wich was replacing Anton and Scalia. That's not 423 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: a big shift, So nobody freaks out about it. When 424 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: a Trump nominee is replacing Anthony Kennedy who's a swing vote, Well, 425 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: that's a bigger issue. And if one of the liberal 426 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: block justices were to retire or have a seat open 427 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: up and then to be replaced by a Trump nominee, 428 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: I think you would expect it come like an apocalyptic 429 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: type battle. And it's not going to be about whether, 430 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, the nominee really has a problem in their past. 431 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: So much is whether people feel threatened by a change 432 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: on the court. Right. So if the notorious RBG actually 433 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: you know, can't do it anymore, and Trump gets to 434 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: appoint another Supreme Court justice the way he's appointed so 435 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: many justices at various levels across the country, that would 436 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: be Are there people out there that would be willing 437 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: to to stick their neck out and even even try 438 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: to make it through that gauntlet. It's certainly, and there 439 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 1: might be people who are willing to stick their neck out, 440 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: but aren't willing to have their family go through it. 441 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: It's there are all sorts of people who just cannot 442 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: imagine putting their loved ones through this type of battle, 443 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: which is why it's important to hold people accountable for 444 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: making false allegations for circumventing processes that are designed to 445 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: protect nominees and people who accuse them, and there hasn't 446 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: been a lot of the on ability at this point, 447 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: and it's important that people know the history and know 448 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: it well and tell people that you know, it's understandable 449 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: that political battles will be politically waged, but there should 450 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: be limits to what you're willing to do or able 451 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: to do as you go after people. It just occurs 452 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: to me the three examples we just gave here, so 453 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: you got Kavanaugh, Bork, and Clarence Thomas O's are all 454 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: Republicans that Democrats went off when after in a in 455 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: a very ugly way. Do we have any examples where 456 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: the parties are flipped? No, I mean Republicans play hardball 457 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: on this too. You might remember that when President Obama 458 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: nominated Merrick Garland to fill Scalia's seat, they just said, 459 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: we're not even going to have hearings, and that was 460 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: that was something that bothered a lot of people. Now 461 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: they didn't go after Garland. It bothered me. It was 462 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: a clever move and it worked, but it wasn't fair 463 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: they made that. They made the claim before Garland was 464 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: even named, which is a big difference and important difference. 465 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: So they didn't go after him personally. They went after saying, 466 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: we're just even getna hold hearings. We're not going to 467 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: consider anyone that you put forth. So Republicans play hardball, 468 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: but less personally. And of course the big issue here 469 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: is the court has become this way that people accomplish 470 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: things when legislatures fail to accomplish what they want, so 471 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: they use the court to push through their progressive ideology 472 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: and and so the court is kind of responsible for 473 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: this itself. The more political they are, the more political 474 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: people will be about nomination battles. The better course of 475 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: action would be simply to do their job, which is 476 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: determined whether a law is constitutional or not um and 477 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: that can be a law written by Democrats or Republicans. 478 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: You just determine is it constitutional or not. And when 479 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: you don't do that and you make it more political, 480 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: well you're gonna have a lot of political battles. What 481 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: was it was it Ben sass Or who was talking 482 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: about quite persuasively not long ago, about the fact that 483 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Courts been elevated to such astounding heights because 484 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: Congress won't do its damn job, and so you almost 485 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: have to have a nine person legislative body figuring out 486 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: what the hell Congress means. Well, I do think that 487 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: the Congress has passed a lot of its responsibility to 488 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: the administrative state executive branch agencies, and then that does 489 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: create a huge branch of administrative law where the courts 490 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: have to decide whether something's constitutional or not. So Congress 491 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: has been part of the problem. But really, even so, 492 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: even when that's their job, rather than um, make political decisions, 493 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: as the Court has done too many times. You know, 494 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: whether it's like redefining marriage or inventing rights to to abortion, 495 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: you know these are things better handled through the legislative 496 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: process and uh, and that people should litigate them through 497 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: the court of public opinion rather than the actual Supreme Court. 498 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: So you and Carrie Savorino have digested this ugly episode 499 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: as thoroughly as absolutely anybody. Uh. Looking to the future, 500 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: and of course the subtitle includes the future of the 501 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,959 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, but looking to the future of Supreme Court hearings. 502 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: If you were to have advised, say, an administration on 503 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: how to counter the battle roar administration for oh lord, um, 504 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: how to counter the fever pitch, the wild allegations, the 505 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: utter journalistic irresponsibility, Uh, what would your council be? Well, 506 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: I actually think the Trump administration handled it really well. 507 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: They started their vetting during the primary campaign, not even 508 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: not even in not waiting until they had the actual 509 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: Republican nomination, but they started going through candidates figuring out 510 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: who had the right approach to the law, this originalist 511 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: approach to whether something is constitutional or not. They looked 512 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: to see had they shown that they have the right 513 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: approach through multiple opinions and a track record that shows 514 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: they're willing to make unpopular decisions that are correct under pressure. 515 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: And they really did look for courage. Do they have 516 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: the courage of their convictions? That's what you're going to 517 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: need to get through this type of process. One of 518 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court justices we talked to was kind of 519 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: pointing out, if you can't make it through this brutal process, 520 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: and it's kind of brutal for everyone to one degree 521 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: or another, and then maybe you shouldn't be serving on 522 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: the court. You know, it requires a lot of courage 523 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: to make the proper decision, and if you don't have 524 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: if you don't if you can't make it through a 525 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: tough process, then you might not have what it takes 526 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: to withstand all the pressure that will be coming your 527 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: way once you do sit on the court. You know, 528 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Molly Hemingway, we are fanboys here on the Armstrong and 529 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: getting show for the term, and we're on all across 530 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: the country, including in Washington, D C. And and uh, 531 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: just hoping that we can get you on on a 532 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: regular basis to talk about that. We play clips from 533 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: you and then pretend you're here. That's what we do. 534 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: I love it, said Molly Hemingway. Hey, what a pleasure, 535 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 1: terrific book. Can't wait to read it. And uh, and 536 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: we appreciate the conversations. Why we got you on the line, 537 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: I got to ask, I mean, we just finished when 538 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: we're taping this two nights of Democratic debates. Who's going 539 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: to be the nominee? Who do you think? I'm really 540 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: not sure. I think I'm really not sure. And until 541 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: I am sure, I don't like to speculate too much. 542 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: I think Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren are strong. I 543 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: think there's something about Mary Ann Williamson that I wouldn't 544 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: which I know it sounds absurd and crazy, but she's 545 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: the only one that says anything actually interesting. Usually, how 546 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: about my boy Yang, He's pretty fun, He's pretty interesting. 547 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if his his what his platform is 548 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: universal basic income and no circumcision, which I'm not sure 549 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: how palatable that it's not my top five. Well well, well, 550 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: but speaking of palatable, I mean, if any of the 551 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: candidates run on health care for illegals, free healthcare for illegals, 552 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: they don't have a chance of beating Trump, do they. 553 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: It was so interesting to watch these debates where you 554 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: have the people desperately trying to plead with the more 555 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: radical candidates to moderate their positions somewhat, and then the 556 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: radical people getting very angry at being told that their 557 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: ideas are too extreme for the general populus. So just 558 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: watching that back and forth with people just think, can 559 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: you please not be so crazy if we're gonna have 560 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: if we're gonna have a shot of beating Trump, and 561 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: then the people saying nope, we're going to be crazier. Yeah, 562 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: I think it's a stay right now, and it's amazing. 563 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: You certainly wouldn't have guessed this a couple of years ago. 564 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: Trump's gonna get reelected and win like forty eight states 565 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: against some just crazy out there AOC green new deal 566 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: healthcare for a legals candidate. Wow, what a historic moment 567 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: that will be. Um, it'll be interesting to watch. But 568 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: I certainly think he has a lot of advantages right 569 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: now that are under noted by people in the media. 570 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: And of course, like the more crazy the people in 571 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: the media get where they're just they're just becoming almost 572 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: rabid in their dislike of Trump. Not almost that, they're 573 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: totally rabbid, and it just makes it hard to take 574 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: them seriously when they try to levy critiques. It just 575 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: comes off as absurd, all right, just an indulgence if 576 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: you don't mind a few words on a couple of 577 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: different people. Let's start with Brett Bear. What's Brett like? Oh, 578 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: he's great. He's wonderful. So one of the two major 579 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: shows that he comes on our show fairly regularly. We've 580 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: had him on before. What are you doing? I've tried 581 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: flatter and I'm gonna try shaming. I'm gonna see what works. Um, 582 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: But he's great. I really enjoyed. That's my favorite hour 583 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: of television on each day. And I like the cow 584 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: he handles the news and very thankful that he UM 585 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: puts people on his panel who represent the viewpoints of 586 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: a lot of Americans. Yeah, it's the best news show 587 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: on television. Absolutely. He seems like a thoroughly distant human being. 588 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 1: Do you deny that? He's absolutely wonderful. That's good. And 589 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: what was it like knowing, at least to some extent, 590 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: Charles Krahammer, who also came on our show regular nay, 591 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: oh stop it. I adored Charles and he was someone 592 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: who at first, you know, we would just fight a lot, 593 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: but then we would continue fighting off air because we 594 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: enjoyed it so much. And he was also very encouraging. 595 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people take things so personally 596 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: in DC right now, where if you disagree with them, 597 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: then they decide that you're evil and you're horrible and 598 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: you're beneath contempt. And he had this idea that when 599 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: people disagreed, they should explore that disagreement and talk about 600 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: it and you know, figure out where that disagreement led. 601 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: And he didn't take it personally, So he really was 602 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: encouraging in terms of um. You know, he and I 603 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: definitely disagreed on a lot, you know, whether it's about 604 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: Trump or foreign policy or whatnot, but we had fun 605 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: in that disagreement. Yeah, you know, it's funny you should 606 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: say that, because my dominant memories of Charles or number one, 607 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: how funny he was um and number two, whenever I 608 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: disagreed with him, I would think about it and think 609 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: about it and think about it because I thought I needed, 610 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: I need to have a really good case to disagree 611 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: with this guy. And you know, we need more people 612 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: like that. You know, he comes from that group of 613 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: people that were very anti Trump, but unlike so many 614 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: of them, he wanted to understand why people like Trump 615 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: and what they found appealing about him, and he was 616 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,719 Speaker 1: more humble about it than a lot of people are 617 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: who just can't even understand how anybody could possibly vote 618 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: for him. Well, that's doing it wrong. And Brett Show, 619 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: you gotta do it like they do on CNN. So 620 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: you've got nine people on a panel and hey, guess 621 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: what all nine of them agree, no disagreement. Yeah. Molly 622 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: Hemingway Justice on Trial with Kavanaugh confirmation in the Future 623 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court, which she wrote with Kerry Savarino, Molly, 624 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: great to talk to you. I hope we can do 625 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: it against soon. Thanks a milions, great, thank you, Thanks 626 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: so you think I was successful on any level. I 627 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: don't feel like I was. Were you trying to humiliate 628 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: yourself and me by extension? Well, then yes, you were successful. 629 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: I thought, absolutely successful. I realized flattering was getting nowhere, right, 630 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: So then I thought, these people that you like in respect, 631 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: who are also big deals. They've come on the show 632 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: multiple times. It was the what's the term transparency of 633 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: the strategy that bothered me. Really, she's she's a serious woman. Yeah, 634 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: no doubt, which is great. I cannot wait to read 635 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: this book because watching it unfold was so disgusting, and 636 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: part of it is, you know, I sort of got 637 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: My biggest fault is naivete. I can't believe people act 638 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: so badly in such a big way, and and you 639 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: can still suck air and sleep at night in the 640 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: rest of it. It's astounding. You can't shock politicians can't 641 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: shock me at this point. But I do expect journalists 642 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: to not sit on something that would could clear a 643 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: guy of being a gang rapist, right, but that would 644 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: interrupt the narrative. That's print Wait a minute, a piece 645 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: of notebook paper unsigned arrived at add newspaper office. Let's 646 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: go ahead and print that allegation. I mean, that's an 647 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: abandonment of journalistic principles so astounding and egregious. If it 648 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: hadn't happened, I wouldn't believe it. And you know, if if, um, 649 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: if the Weekly World News did that, I chuckle and think, well, 650 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: everybody knows what they are. But for n NBC to 651 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: do that, well, you know, let's screw him. That's I 652 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: think of NBC about like I think about the Weekly 653 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: World News. At this point, they have made their bed. 654 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: By God, they wouldn't lie in it. I don't remember 655 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: how we end these extra long podcasts. I think we 656 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: just stopped talking mark extra large. When you're ready to 657 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: ride Metro, we want you to know we're ready for you. 658 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: Here are just a few of the people at Metro 659 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: to tell you how we're doing our part to keep 660 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: riders safe. We're cleaning like nevill before, half builded greatly. 661 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: You've found half sanitizing, no mask, no Metro need one. 662 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: We have a few extras at Metro. We're doing our 663 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: part to keep the DC area moving. Find out more 664 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: at well mata dot com slash doing our part