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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 3: Ah, here we go. It is a Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: People are fuming and outraged and enraged. It's The Herd

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Speaker 1: in Chicago. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening.

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Speaker 1: Good show today. Thanks for making us part of your day.

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Speaker 1: So the interweb just went crazy last night. Jimmy Johnson's yelling,

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Speaker 1: screaming to on tots and pans. Bill Belichick, in his

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Speaker 1: first year of eligibility, did not get voted into the

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Speaker 1: NFL Hall of Fame. Now let's start with this. He will,

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Speaker 1: He's a Hall of Famer. He'll get in. And we

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Speaker 1: don't know that he didn't get thirty nine of the

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Speaker 1: fifty votes. I'm sure he got a majority. So let's

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Speaker 1: just start talking about is it possible possible that what

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Speaker 1: am I about to explain to you when into consideration,

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Speaker 1: let me start with this the winningest coach of all time.

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Speaker 1: Don Shula got to a Super Bowl with Dan Marino,

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Speaker 1: David Woodley, and Earl Morale. He had to wait five

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Speaker 1: years until he was even eligible for the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: But because of a tweak this year in the voting.

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Speaker 1: And I don't like this at all, coaches now can

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Speaker 1: get in one year removed from being out the league.

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Speaker 1: So the greatest players can't, but coaches can. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible that a handful of voters eleven twelve voters went timeout,

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Speaker 1: the classiest guy ever, the winningest guy ever, the guy

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Speaker 1: Belichick's been chasing forever. Don Shula had to wait five

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Speaker 1: years to even be eligible, and now because of a

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Speaker 1: weird tweak, I gotta put Belichick, who was a jerk forever.

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Speaker 1: And that does matter. I'll get to that later. Some

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Speaker 1: of these voters are writers. I'm gonna put him in

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Speaker 1: day one. Nah, I'll put him in next year. That

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Speaker 1: gets me to the second part of this. If you

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Speaker 1: take out one superstar quarterback in Belichick's career, he has

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Speaker 1: a winning percentage below Jerry Glanville and equal to Anthony Lynn.

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Speaker 1: With Brady, his team scored almost twenty nine points a game,

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Speaker 1: and he won seventy seven percent of his games. Without Brady,

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Speaker 1: they scored nineteen points and he wins forty four percent.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, he was fired in Cleveland without him,

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Speaker 1: was about to get fired in New England before Drew

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Speaker 1: Bledsoe got hurt. And in the minute Brady left, he

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Speaker 1: put a defensive coordinator in at OC in the one year.

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Speaker 1: And think about this, Mike Frabel is getting to a

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Speaker 1: super Bowl with Drake May, who's not even a finished product.

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Speaker 1: The current New England coach Mike Frabel got a number

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Speaker 1: one seed with Ryan Tannehill, the seventeenth best quarterback in

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Speaker 1: the league. Okay, Brady leaves and they can't score, they

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Speaker 1: don't get offense to the worst drafting team in the league.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Bill Parcells is his mentor. He won super

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Speaker 1: Bowls with Jeff Hosteller and Phil Simms was Parcells was

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Speaker 1: Belichick's mentor.

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Speaker 3: He had to wait forever.

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Speaker 1: Bill Parcells, Ask yourself if there was a great movie

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Speaker 1: director who made twenty movies. In twelve of them he

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Speaker 1: had a superstar actor and they won Oscars and they

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Speaker 1: were amazing. In the eight other movies, he didn't have

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Speaker 1: that one superstar actor, and they were unwatchable. Dreck Parky's

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Speaker 1: two would it give you pause for five minutes?

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Speaker 3: Ago? Was it the director or the actor? Even with

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Speaker 3: a stacked.

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Speaker 1: Roster of the one year Brady got hurt, they couldn't

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Speaker 1: make the playoffs and again Vrabel got a number one

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Speaker 1: seed with Ryan Tannehill.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and here's the third part.

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Speaker 1: I'm just asking you to consider it because Belichick is

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Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer and will get In the third part,

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Speaker 1: what is the most valuable week of the year in

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Speaker 1: Pro football? What is the one week of the year

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Speaker 1: that the league values the most?

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Speaker 3: Super Bowl Week?

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Speaker 1: And in two thousand and seven it was tarnished because

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Speaker 1: Belichick footage of him taping another team and Roger Goodell

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Speaker 1: had to go to the Super Bowl an all week

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Speaker 1: long address Belichick's cheating. Folks, you successful men out there,

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Speaker 1: there is a tax in life. You can be a

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Speaker 1: great husband for forty five years, but if your wife

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Speaker 1: finds that one of those years you were cheating, you

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Speaker 1: will sleep on the couch at minimum. There is a

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Speaker 1: tax to pay if the most valuable week of the

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Speaker 1: year you blew it up once because you were taping

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Speaker 1: another team. So in review, Don Shula had to wait

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Speaker 1: five years. Parcels, your mentor waited forever. Your winning percentage

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Speaker 1: is forty four percent without Brady, and you blew up

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Speaker 1: a Super Bowl week.

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Speaker 3: If you have.

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Speaker 1: Several asterisks by your name, is it okay to pause

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Speaker 1: for a year? My staff also did an interesting thing

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Speaker 1: this morning. We went and looked at some of the

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Speaker 1: other great coaches to see how quickly they got in.

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Speaker 1: Vince Lombardi, you know, the guy they named the trophy after,

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Speaker 1: did not get in first year eligible. Bill Walsh, the

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Speaker 1: most innovative coach in the history of the league. Half

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Speaker 1: the league uses his offense, did not get in first

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Speaker 1: year eligible. Joe Gibbs in unquestionably three Super Bowls with

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Speaker 1: three different quarterbacks, the most underrated coach in the history

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Speaker 1: of the league. Joe Gibbs first year eligibility, doesn't get in.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson waited forever, Parcels waited. Andy Reed'll have to wait.

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Speaker 1: But because they tweaked, and I don't agree with this,

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Speaker 1: they tweak the voting so the coaches can now get

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Speaker 1: right in. Somebody said Walsh didn't get in, Lombardi didn't

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Speaker 1: get in, Gibs.

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Speaker 3: Didn't get make him wait a year.

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Speaker 1: They may not be punishing Belichick, they're punishing the voting methodology.

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Speaker 1: So again, let's let's not argue that Bill is a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame coach. Yes, absolutely, I would have voted

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Speaker 1: him in. But when you change the voting methodology, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is what Biden and Trump argue lines, where do

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Speaker 1: you vote? Who's voting for? Who? Who's voting? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we can't even get our presidential election voting right. You cheated,

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Speaker 1: you rigged it you. I mean Hall of Fame voting

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Speaker 1: has always been wonky. I mean, baseball's got a morality clause.

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Speaker 1: Football doesn't. But when you change it, sometimes stuff like

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Speaker 1: this happens. He's getting in. But if you take a

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Speaker 1: deep breath, I think you have to. When Brady left,

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Speaker 1: went to Tampa, won a Super Bowl and Bill's teams were.

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Speaker 3: Awful DC TOCI, doesn't that make you pause a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what makes Christopher Nolan and Spielberg and the

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Speaker 1: great director so amazing. They use all sorts of actors

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Speaker 1: and writers and they can do it. That's what makes

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Speaker 1: Joe Gibbs and Parcels and the great coach Bill Walsh,

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Speaker 1: and when Andy Reid gets to Super Bowls with guys

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Speaker 1: not named the Holmes. Andy Reid wins with everybody. You

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Speaker 1: take out Brady, you can't pause for a year and ago.

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Speaker 3: Again. You guys are all freaking out. He's getting in.

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Speaker 3: He deserves to be in. But you start looking at

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Speaker 3: the methodology.

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Speaker 1: I do not like the idea that players have to

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Speaker 1: wait for half a decade to be eligible and coaches

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Speaker 1: can get in immediately. That makes no It's a player's league,

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Speaker 1: not a coaches league. I mean, I love Andy Reid,

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Speaker 1: he won't Hoyston trophies, still my homes. How about this

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Speaker 1: Bill can get in once Tom's in, since there's an

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Speaker 1: argument to be made he was going to get fired.

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Speaker 1: Belichick in New England would have failed that both jobs

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Speaker 1: had a surly reputation and may have never had any

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Speaker 1: of this debate because he didn't get another head job.

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Speaker 1: Brady's eligible in what twenty twenty eight? Bill's eligible?

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Speaker 3: Now you like that? I don't like that? Jmack.

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Speaker 1: Before I go to my next story, I think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because when you start looking at who gets in

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Speaker 1: and the eligibility, Baseball's Hall of Fame is weird because

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Speaker 1: they put in morality clauses, and you know, like are

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Speaker 1: you a good person? Did you cheat? And there's been

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Speaker 1: great consternation and debate on that. The NFL doesn't do that,

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Speaker 1: but there are people voting on that who covered Bill.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he wouldn't talk to I know two Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame voters he refused to talk to for fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: He held grudges, he could be petty, he could be difficult,

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Speaker 1: and every business, including football coaching, is a people business.

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Speaker 1: There was a reason when Jimmy Johnson got in on

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Speaker 1: the set, all the other men there cried because Jimmy'd

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Speaker 1: been good to a lot of people. Belichick didn't even

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Speaker 1: have a coaching tree. I mean seriously, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: like Sean McVay, relative to Belichick's been in the league

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Speaker 1: forty five minutes, He's got a coaching forest. So like,

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Speaker 1: there is something to be said in your life. It's

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Speaker 1: not a morality thing. But if you dump on people,

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Speaker 1: if you're difficult. If Bobby Knight's life ended sadly while

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Speaker 1: he was still coaching, I'm not talking his health deterioration.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking his last eight nine years of coaching. He

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Speaker 1: bullied people, He alienated people, even Coach K like, stop

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Speaker 1: connecting with him. Coach K, I'm not going to deal

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Speaker 1: with you. I'm not going to talk with you. If

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Speaker 1: you treat people like that, nobody's saying you won't get in.

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Speaker 1: Howard Stern took forever to get it into the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. And radio why he made fun of the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famer radio. Everybody knew he and Rush Limbaugh

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Speaker 1: dominated American radio. But if you poke people in the ribs,

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Speaker 1: you're difficult, You mock, you, you rip. You don't be

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Speaker 1: surprised if there's a little bit a twelve month tax

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Speaker 1: on your actions and personality. Just a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a tax. Just sleep on the couch for a night

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Speaker 1: or two. That's all I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: But can you still take the whole Hall of Fame vote? Seriously, Colin,

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Speaker 4: If when you see all the fifteen twenty thirty names

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Speaker 4: up eligible for the Hall of Fame and you go

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Speaker 4: through them, you see Bill Belichick saying that's an automatic,

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Speaker 4: he's in.

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Speaker 3: He's one of my doubt.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at the press, I mean, let's look at

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Speaker 1: the president. Why wasn't that the case with Parcels or

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson or Vince Lombardi or Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs,

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Speaker 1: the damn trophy guy didn't get in.

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Speaker 4: Well, Belichick has more trophies. I think that all those

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Speaker 4: guys may become more trophies. It's a different world.

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Speaker 1: But if they're if you literally have a trophy named

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Speaker 1: after you, you think you would have got in rather quickly.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it because in his infancy then back then, you know,

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Speaker 4: it was really early. I'm just curious. Are you surprised

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Speaker 4: by the whole Craft situation? Uh, you know, he's been waiting,

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Speaker 4: I think fourteen years to get into the Hall of

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Speaker 4: Fame and now he would have gone in with Belichick

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Speaker 4: if they both got in this time. And by all accounts,

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Speaker 4: it sounds like Craft's getting in and Belichick is not

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Speaker 4: interesting subplot given their ugly ending in New England.

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Speaker 3: Remember that beyond ugly end.

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Speaker 4: I mean they initially said it was a there's a

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Speaker 4: mutually parting of ways. Ten months later Craft on record,

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Speaker 4: Oh I fired him. You know I took a risk

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Speaker 4: on that guy. It's been ugly between those two. I

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Speaker 4: think the subplots here are fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Comments.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I and again Bill's getting in. He may have

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Speaker 1: gotten thirty nine of the fifty votes. But remember in

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Speaker 1: the football voting, five people are eligible, you only get a.

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Speaker 3: Vote for three. It's just ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: So all these Hall of Fame votes are I mean,

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Speaker 1: voting in America for presidents is convoluted, difficult, redistricting, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is what we argue about every four years. This

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Speaker 1: side cheated, this redistrict voting for this stuff.

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Speaker 3: All voting is weird. It should be more transparent.

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Speaker 1: I think when you vote for Hall of Fame, you

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Speaker 1: should be able to go in and say, somebody gets dinner,

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Speaker 1: they don't. It shouldn't be limited to I can vote

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Speaker 1: for two of five or three of five. Bill Belichick.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he's in or not?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yes, he shouldn't be.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't qualify it based on well, I've got to

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Speaker 1: let this guy in and that guy not it.

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Speaker 3: So the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't mind a handful of sports writers who covered

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Speaker 1: the league forever being.

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Speaker 3: Part of it.

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Speaker 1: I would put executives, coaches, a few of those. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you're an observer to something, you can have a

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Speaker 1: right to vote in any Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: It could be rady.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was just in a Radio Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame dinner. There were executives, there were hosts, there were local,

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Speaker 1: there were syndicated, there were sales people.

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Speaker 3: They're you know, all sorts of people matter in any business.

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Speaker 4: But you're right to voting. Like, I love Roger Craig,

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Speaker 4: you know they they were Roger Craig on the Niners,

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Speaker 4: the high stepping, tough running back. He's awesome. How could

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Speaker 4: you vote Roger Craig in the Hall of Fame over

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Speaker 4: Bill Belichick? Like, on no level? Does that make it?

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Speaker 1: Remember anounce of sense? Remember one guy, I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: but Bill is going to get in he is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: He's just sleeping on the couch for you.

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Speaker 3: How about that? All right?

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Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy is official. He is the Steeler coach. Big

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Speaker 1: Ben says something I think's worth noting.

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Speaker 3: That's next, It's the Hurt.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays

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Speaker 2: and Noone Easter non a em Pacific on Fox Sports

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Speaker 2: Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 5: Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth Hour with Ben

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Speaker 5: Maller with Me and a lot to have you join

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Speaker 5: us on our weekly auditory journey. You ask what in

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Speaker 5: God's name is the Fifth Hour. I'll tell you it's

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Speaker 5: a spin off of it. Ben Mathershaw a cult hit

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Speaker 5: overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture if you

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Speaker 5: will a world will We chat with captains of industry

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Speaker 5: in media, sports and more every week explore some amazing

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Speaker 5: facts about human nature and more. Listen to The Fifth

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Speaker 5: Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast

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Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: So Mike McCarthy at the end of yesterday's show was

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Speaker 1: hired as the Pittsburgh Steelers coach. I thought Ben Roethlisberger,

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Speaker 1: you know, along with Terry Bradshaw, have been the two

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Speaker 1: great quarterbacks in Steeler history. And Big Ben says, here's

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Speaker 1: the one thing about Mike McCarthy that is a game

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Speaker 1: changer in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 6: I think you bring you bring a new voice into

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Speaker 6: the locker room because sometimes avoid the message can get

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Speaker 6: repetitive and can get called stale, but it can just

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Speaker 6: get repetitive. We finally have an offensive minded coaching here

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Speaker 6: that we've never had. Believe, Chuck Noles defense is I

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Speaker 6: assume you know, and all the defensive head coaches we've had.

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Speaker 6: I'm so excited for an offensive minded coach because I

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Speaker 6: think we have to score more than six points in

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Speaker 6: a playoff game.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like, this is why Mike McCarthy isn't a bad Hire.

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Speaker 3: He's safe. He's a little uninspiring.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me this week I watched the movie on

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Speaker 1: Netflix called Rip with Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, and

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Speaker 1: the critics are like, well, it did not elevate the genre.

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Speaker 1: I don't get out of here either, to your columns. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it was a terrible It was a it was a

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Speaker 1: week swing. Not every paintings of Picasso, and not every

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Speaker 1: Hire is Sean McVay. It doesn't make it a terrible movie.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make it a terrible higher. I was entertained

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Speaker 1: for ninety minutes with Matt and Ben, and I will

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Speaker 1: say this, McCarthy, if Aaron Rodgers plays next year, probably

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Speaker 1: wins ten games. I mean, folks, John Malkovic maybe our

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Speaker 1: greatest living actor, did con Air?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Not everything is art, even in a world of art.

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Speaker 1: And this is an organization not only seven straight years

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Speaker 1: of a bottom ten offense.

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Speaker 3: No, it's worse than that.

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Speaker 1: In the last seven years they have a thirty second

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Speaker 1: ranked run game. And you can say what you want

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Speaker 1: about McCarthy, but if he and Aaron Rodgers next year together,

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Speaker 1: I'll take the over on wins at nine or ten,

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Speaker 1: I really will. I mean, in Dallas one year, Mike

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Speaker 1: McCarthy one season had the number four total offense. Cooper

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Speaker 1: Rush started five games, Dak got hurt, and they had

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Speaker 1: one legit receiver, Ceedee Lamb, and they finished with the

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Speaker 1: number four offense in the league. So the Steelers have

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Speaker 1: been in the wilderness offensively for seven to eight years.

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Speaker 1: I consider Mike McCarthy the compass that gets them back

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Speaker 1: to offensive civilization. They'll be competent, they'll spend more money again.

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Speaker 1: Not every movie is Goodfella was rip on Netflix is entertaining.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting there. My wife's like, you want to watch

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Speaker 1: a movie. I watched my maker watch football all season.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, watch it.

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Speaker 4: It's entertaining.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not scor say, it's not The Irishman, It's

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Speaker 1: not you know, it's not one of Christopher Nolan's best.

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Speaker 1: It was entertaining. Mike McCarthy's fine. You know, he's an

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Speaker 1: emotional guy. I mean here he was yesterday. It's hard

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Speaker 1: not to root for a guy who starts crying at

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Speaker 1: the mic.

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Speaker 8: No, oftentimes coaches and players. You know, you put on

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Speaker 8: new team colors and it takes a minute to feel

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Speaker 8: comfortable in those new colors, but to be blessed beyond

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Speaker 8: any measure one day to put on the colors you

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Speaker 8: wore since you brought home. I apologize, I understand and

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Speaker 8: embrace the responsibility, the privilege in the way that comes

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Speaker 8: with the stewardship out of city, this franchise, this fan base.

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Speaker 7: Made's the world to me.

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Speaker 8: Because Pittsburgh's my world and it's just awesome to be

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Speaker 8: buck here.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what am I going to root against that guy?

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Speaker 7: What?

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Speaker 3: I have no soul? Of course, I'm gonna root for him.

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Speaker 3: I want to see him win.

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Speaker 1: I just got tired of the repetitive defensive spending. There'll

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Speaker 1: be more of an offensive organization. I agree with Big Ben.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to see it, and I hope Aaron Rodgers

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Speaker 1: does come back. I mean, j Max said seven wins.

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Speaker 1: If Aaron and Mike McCarthy are together next year, I'll

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Speaker 1: say it right now, it's a ten win team. Not

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Speaker 1: saying it's winning anything beyond that. It's a ten win team.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, you doubted me on the Patriots and the Seahawk.

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Speaker 9: J Mack.

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Speaker 3: J Mack with the news. No, no, no, this is

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Speaker 3: the Herdline News. Do it in your own peril.

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Speaker 4: I'm scrambling to look up the Steelers opponents for next year,

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Speaker 4: but we'll do that later in the show. We got

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Speaker 4: some breaking news. The Browns have announced they have hired

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Speaker 4: Todd Munkin. Yes, Todd Munkin is going to be the

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Speaker 4: new head coach in Cleveland. He was the Ravens OC

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Speaker 4: with Harbaugh. Todd Munkin fifty nine years old. Interesting nugget

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Speaker 4: from the Athletic Munkin was in Cleveland as the OC

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Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen and allegedly told opposing team's coaches the

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Speaker 4: Browns were a mess, sorry, a total mess, which is

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Speaker 4: not really a surprise. I do say I think the

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Speaker 4: Monkin schaduor pairing is good news for Shador Sanders because

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Speaker 4: Monkin is a pretty sharp offensive guy. I won't talk

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Speaker 4: about the game plan against the Chiefs in the AFC

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Speaker 4: Championship that cost me money, but overall I think Munkin,

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Speaker 4: kind of a good offensive mind, could work well with Shador.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like Jim Schwartz, their DC, who was highly

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Speaker 4: thought of, it was up for the job, is going

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Speaker 4: to be leaving. He wants nothing to do with Cleveland.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's fine.

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Speaker 1: I think when you I mean, when's the last time

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Speaker 1: the sixth or seventh higher in a coaching cycle was

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Speaker 1: the great higher. I think it could work fine. I

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Speaker 1: think Cleveland has been a mess. I wouldn't let go

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Speaker 1: of Stefanski, who interviewed for every top job, but it's Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: so this is what they do. I think it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's not a single coaching hire I'm I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that is destined to be a failure. I think Jesse

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Speaker 1: Mentor is going to do really well in Baltimore. I

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Speaker 1: think John Harbaugh is going to crush with the New

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Speaker 1: York Giants. And I think eventually, if Pennix can be healthy,

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Speaker 1: whatever they do at quarterback, I think Stefanski will do

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Speaker 1: very well in Atlanta. After that, I mean the rest

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Speaker 1: of the hires, Joe Brady and Buffalo Todd Monkin. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you got a lot of you got a great quarterback,

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Speaker 1: and you got some more of the good players. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, can he win seven games next year. Certainly possible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean somebody's making the point that, hey, the

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Speaker 4: two teams in the Super Bowl this year, they weren't

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Speaker 4: in the playoffs last year. Anybody can do it. Then

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Speaker 4: let's just pump the brakes on that. Okay, Drake May,

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Speaker 4: they had their quarterback in New England. I'm sorry. I

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Speaker 4: don't think she door's in the Drake May class. I

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Speaker 4: don't think he's a franchise guy. He'll get a year,

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Speaker 4: he'll get a crack at it, sure, but the Browns

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Speaker 4: have a major uphill climb. Offensive position players are so weak.

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Speaker 4: I just had a good luck to Todd bunkin first

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Speaker 4: head coaching job at fifty nine. Proud, happy for the guy.

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Speaker 4: Let's move on to the Patriots. Colin Drake May, the

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Speaker 4: second year quarterback in the Super Bowl. There are you know,

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Speaker 4: let me say this. There's speculation he may have an

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Speaker 4: injured shoulder on his throwing arm. Mike Rabel was asked

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Speaker 4: about it yesterday and said, hey, this time of the year,

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Speaker 4: nobody's on hundred percent. Then May went on a weekly

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Speaker 4: radio spot on WEEI and had this to say about

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Speaker 4: a potential injury.

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Speaker 10: I'm feeling good. We got some extra rest, and really

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Speaker 10: the only thing it's from the game. I think just

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Speaker 10: a built up of throwing. For this is what almost

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Speaker 10: trading camp. Thirty weeks straight of throwing in four days

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Speaker 10: a week. It can add up. But not that we've

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Speaker 10: got some extra rest and I'm feeling good and you're

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Speaker 10: ready to go to Super Bowl.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like some excuses for a guy who's throwing at

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Speaker 4: fifty five percent completions in the playoffs. Colin, I like

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Speaker 4: Drake May again, you go back to our draft stuff.

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Speaker 4: Everybody loved Jayden. I said, no, Drake May's my guy.

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Speaker 4: You can look it up. I just he's been awful

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Speaker 4: this postseason. There is no argument. And don't give me

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Speaker 4: this weather. It was a one half of bad weather

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Speaker 4: against the Broncos O Game one.

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Speaker 3: So he's very young.

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Speaker 1: And also the offensive line for the Patriots is absolutely

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Speaker 1: the weak part of their team. And it should be

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Speaker 1: noted the Texans and the Broncos may have the two

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Speaker 1: best pass rushes in the league against his really average

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Speaker 1: O line, these have not been great matchups. I look

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Speaker 1: at it the other way, the fact that they were

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Speaker 1: able to score enough points to win when the weakness

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Speaker 1: of their team is O line, And I think it's

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Speaker 1: the number one question in the Seahawks Patriots Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: Can they block the Seahawks O line? Because Seattle will

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Speaker 1: score on New England. Seat JSN is going to get

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Speaker 1: his catches, Seattle's going to.

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Speaker 3: Score on New England.

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Speaker 1: Some the question is can they move the ball in

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Speaker 1: that Seahawks offense? Now, all they have to do if

432
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: you're the Patriot is watch the Matt Stafford film because

433
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: he went through it twice, Hot Knife through butter. So

434
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a really good super Bowl

435
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: right today. I would take the Patriots and the points.

436
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: I think four and a half five points for this

437
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: football team that's won sixteen to seventeen. Who's gonna here

438
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: for two weeks they have no chance to win. I

439
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: think Vrabel's brilliant, Josh McDaniel, Drake may Good defense been

440
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: here before.

441
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: I think it's a really good super Bowl.

442
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 7: Wow.

443
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, let's go to the final story con.

444
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 4: That's the LA Superchargers. They have Mike McDaniel as their

445
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 4: new OC. People are downright giddy out here. I'm not

446
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 4: even kidding Colin. There is so much excitement for pairing

447
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 4: Mike McDaniel with Justin Herbert, and here's McDaniel talking about

448
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 4: Herbert's ceiling and just how damn good of a quarterback.

449
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 7: He is.

450
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 11: Not relying too heavily on Justin's ability to do above

451
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 11: and beyond. I think is critical to maximize those types

452
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 11: of types of opportunities. You know, it'll be one of

453
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 11: the first things that we'll try to do is, you know,

454
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 11: take a little office plate so that he is free

455
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 11: to do that. When you know his greatness is required,

456
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 11: you try to take it off of him by creating

457
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 11: some low cost, high reward offense that you know he's

458
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 11: firmly capable of doing, but maybe a player of lesser

459
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 11: talent would be capable of doing as well.

460
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna work. You know, there's certain things that

461
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: are gonna work. John Harbon, New York, They're gonna do fine.

462
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: Mike McDaniel oc in LA, that's gonna work. I mean

463
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: there's certain things. By the way, Brian Dable, offensive coordinator

464
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: with Sala down in Tennessee, I'm they're gonna double their

465
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: win total. I don't know how great they are, but

466
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: you got one of the best defensive minds, an excellent

467
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: offensive coach. Tennessee's got a fortune they can spend on players.

468
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: There's if three things I think are absolutely true. Harbaugh

469
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: doubles the win total, the Chargers offense is suddenly really good,

470
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: and Tennessee crushed it. And they don't crush a lot

471
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: in Tennessee. Tennessee crushed it this year. In the coaching

472
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: cycle coordinator head coach.

473
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: So Colin.

474
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: This is an interesting mix. You've got Harball, who is

475
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 4: very quirky, right, is that a good word for Jim Harball.

476
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 4: He's a little quirky. He's Quirky's all the stuff he

477
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 4: says the interview exactly. McDaniel the smart guy from Yale,

478
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 4: not really a football guy. Harball's one of these are

479
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 4: like McDaniel's the opposite. And then you've got Herbert, who

480
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 4: I think you had said back in the day he

481
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,239
Speaker 4: was like a four to zero student at Oregon who

482
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 4: is a bio major or something like that. You have

483
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: a really interesting trio. This is for me, would be

484
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 4: a great team the league would spotlight in like a

485
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: Hard Knocks or one of these shows. I'm very interested.

486
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 4: You know, we go to Vegas a lot. This will

487
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 4: be one of the few teams I bet to win

488
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: the Super Bowl next year. I think this team is

489
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 4: really making a lead.

490
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 3: Collin Wow J Mack with the news.

491
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the

492
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: herd line there now.

493
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: I said this earlier.

494
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball has a morality clause in their Hall

495
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: of Fame. In football doesn't. But that doesn't mean treating

496
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: people poorly for twenty years. That's not a morality issue.

497
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: That's a personality issue. And if you know people who

498
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: cover you, you probably shouldn't treat them really, really poorly.

499
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: You know, if you build walls and make enemies, don't

500
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: be shocked if nobody shows up to your birthday party.

501
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: Belichick went out of his way to make people uncomfortable

502
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: who covered him. It shouldn't matter, folks, It matters. It

503
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: matters in your job. It always. Every single business, including mine,

504
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: is a people business. Doesn't mean I love everybody I've

505
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: ever worked for, but there's no reason to spit on them.

506
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: And Belichick has no coaching tree, his way or the

507
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: highway relative to how long he's been in the league.

508
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Mcveigh's got seven guys in the league, so I mean

509
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: he doesn't get along with Bob Kraft, who's probably trusted

510
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: more than any owner by Roger Goodell. Bob Kraft made

511
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: him the richest coach in the league, won't speak to him.

512
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, who by the way, kind of saved his

513
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: career to some degree, never had dinner in twenty years

514
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: with him, never broke bread once. I mean, Belichick was

515
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: five and thirteen in New England and Brady started okay,

516
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: and the wins started cascading downhill. And so again you

517
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: say it shouldn't matter. I mean, you are completely naive

518
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: if you think a museum or a hall of fame

519
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: in any industry, if you whiz on people, you build walls,

520
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: you make enemies, you mock and poke, and you think

521
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: they're all going to go come on in first eligibility,

522
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: they're not. I mean, that's it's And I know, powerful

523
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: rich guys think they're always going to get their way,

524
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: but they don't win every election and they don't always

525
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: get their way. And Bill's going to get in. And

526
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: again I understand that some people are just grumpy and

527
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: closed off and don't have big personalities. Nobody's saying you

528
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: have to be a boy scout. Nobody's saying you have

529
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: to come in and give the sports writers apples and cookies.

530
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: But I mean Bill was difficult with his owner. No

531
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: dinner at the other day. Jules Edelman Julian Edelman was

532
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: asked on the podcast do you ever remember Bill doing

533
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: something nice for you? He's like, he drafted me. I mean,

534
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: now everything had to be difficult. And again, that doesn't

535
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: mean Bill doesn't have a heart, doesn't mean he's a

536
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: bad dad.

537
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean anything. But I'm saying we're talking.

538
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: About first year of eligibility, anonymous voting into a Hall

539
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: of Fame. He may have ticked off eleven people for

540
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: the record, the eleven that didn't vote him in, if

541
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: that's the number, probably would vote him in next year.

542
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: So everybody is everybody.

543
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: There's an old saying about every but he learns at

544
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: a different rate. It's the same way with Hall of Fames.

545
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: Everybody gets in at a different rate. Sometimes it's first

546
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: bout Derek Jeter. That I mean, in the history of

547
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: baseball Hall of Fames, I think I'm right on this.

548
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: I don't have it in front of me.

549
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: Nobody's ever gotten Has anybody ever gotten one hundred percent

550
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: of the vote? You think like Hank Aaron would get

551
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of the vote. I don't know if

552
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: anybody's ever gotten one hundred percent of the vote in

553
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: the Baseball Hall of Fame. I can see one of

554
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: my producers, Grammy. I'm sure it's possible. But I mean,

555
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: I grew up with Johnny Bench. Johnny Bench, he was

556
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: the best catcher for like fifteen years in baseball. He

557
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: won titles, he hit for power, he was they had

558
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: the best army, threw out the runners. I remember when

559
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: he got in. I'm like, not everyone, how do you

560
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: not vote for him? I don't even understand that. I mean,

561
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: Mariano Rivera was the greatest closer of all time? Did

562
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: he get one hundred percent of the votes?

563
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: Did Mariono he the only one?

564
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: He is? Okay, Mariano Rivera, there you go, is the

565
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: only player ever.

566
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: So you're gonna tell me.

567
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: A guy that pitched seven pitches in his usual outing

568
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: gets it. And there's all these great pitchers starting Pitchers

569
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: wear and tear twenty years, so I mean it's it's

570
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: the closer.

571
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: And hey, I.

572
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: Got no problem with Mariano Rivera getting in with one

573
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the vote. I got no he's one

574
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: of the classiest guys ever. But could you make this

575
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: argument of all the great baseball players ever, Babe Ruth Mantle.

576
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: Cofax is part of the reason.

577
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: Mariano Rivera, because it wasn't innings pitched, one of the

578
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: reasons he got one hundred percent of the votes because

579
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: he's the nicest guy that's ever played that. Mariano Rivera

580
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: is the classiest, nicest human being that has maybe.

581
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: Ever played the game.

582
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: He didn't get it because the innings pitched. He also

583
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: blew a World Series against Arizona. You could have argued

584
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: he gets ninety eight percent of the vote, you get

585
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: one hundred.

586
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of.

587
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: It is he was so gracious, he was so humble,

588
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: he was so decent, and he was great.

589
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 3: But there's been a lot of great in baseball. It's

590
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: a hurt.

591
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays

592
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.

593
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: About once a year seth Wickersham stops by the show.

594
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: Senior writer at ESBN, New York Times best selling author.

595
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's a senior writer anywhere, since

596
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: he looks like Joe Burrow's younger brother. But Seth is

597
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: now joining us live. The man does not age. But

598
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: let's get to the football stuff. How are you doing, Seth?

599
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: So I made the argument with the voting methodology changing,

600
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: we all know Belichick's a Hall of Famer that now

601
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: coaches can get right in, players still can't. It's like, wait, so,

602
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: so Brady has to wait till twenty twenty eight Belichick

603
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: can get right in. Is some of this maybe maybe

604
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: voters saying well Lombardi Walsh waited, Shula waited, Gibbs waited,

605
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: It's okay if Bill waits a year. Is some of

606
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: it just the methodology methodology change.

607
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 3: In the voting?

608
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 9: Well thanks man, And you know, look, if you have

609
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 9: Burrow on the show, maybe you know, don't mention that

610
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 9: I look like his little brother.

611
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 7: I think that would probably lead to some awkward content.

612
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 9: I think that there is something to the methodology change,

613
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 9: but not quite that I think. So this is interesting

614
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 9: is that, like a couple of years ago, they changed

615
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 9: the groups of people who get in and they created

616
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 9: the Hall of Fame. Did created this hodgepodge of senior players, coaches,

617
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 9: and contributors. So this is why, in case your viewers

618
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 9: are wondering, we have Bill Belichick up against Roger Craig

619
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 9: and Ken Anderson, the quarterback for the Bengals of the seventies,

620
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 9: to make it into the Hall of Fame, and there's

621
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 9: fifty voters and they can vote for three candidates. And

622
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 9: I think that's where things got really tricky. I think

623
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 9: that there's some voters who didn't vote for him because

624
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 9: of Spygate and because of the you know, the cheating

625
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 9: and the rule breaking.

626
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 7: That happened during that time.

627
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 9: And then I think there's a lot of voters who

628
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 9: tried to vote for their guys with the assumption that

629
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 9: Belichick was going to get in. I think they figured

630
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 9: that it was a FATA complete and so because of that,

631
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 9: it's like this perfect storm of you know, dysfunction where

632
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 9: a guy who has eight Super Bowl rings and is

633
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 9: the second winningest coach of all time, greatest coach at

634
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 9: least of the Super.

635
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 7: Bowl era in the NFL, didn't get in.

636
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 3: I think that's what happened Spygate.

637
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 1: Listen, a lot of coaches, Bill Kawer, Jimmy Johnson have said,

638
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people were taping. I made

639
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: the argument the most valuable week of the year in

640
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: American sports, and certainly for the NFL a Super Bowl week.

641
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: Roger Goodell in two thousand and seven had to answer

642
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: questions for six days and it burned a lot of bridges.

643
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and Bill's bridge burning and being a little

644
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: petty spygate is that baseball's got a morality clause NFL doesn't.

645
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that turned off a few voters at

646
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: least one time.

647
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think that Belichick was probably Look, they

648
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 9: were taping it from the illegal location for seven years

649
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 9: before they got caught. You know, the league had sent

650
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 9: Belichick three letters warning him to stop, and he didn't

651
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 9: do it.

652
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 7: Then.

653
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 9: I think Belichick's paying also a price for the way

654
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 9: that the investigation was conducted, which was really a matter

655
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 9: of days. It's kind of astonishing to think about now,

656
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 9: but here you had this like longtime taping operation, and

657
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 9: Ernie Adams and Bill Belichick, two of the best football

658
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 9: minds at the time in the middle of it, and

659
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 9: three Super Bowls won by a total of nine points

660
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 9: by that moment in time. And really what happened was that,

661
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 9: you know, they started the investigation and closed it within

662
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 9: a week and Jeff Passed, the general counsel for the

663
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 9: NFL at the time, went to Jilted Stadium and stomped

664
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 9: tapes into pieces in a conference room, leaving it for

665
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 9: the Patriots executives.

666
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 7: To clean up.

667
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 9: By the way, So there was like an entire perception

668
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 9: that the league was covering up and swept all this

669
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 9: stuff under the rug for Belichick and for Robert Kraft.

670
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 9: And that really came back around onto flate Gate, where

671
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 9: we wrote about how that was a quote makeup call

672
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 9: for spygate. And I still think that there's some of

673
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 9: that lingering. You know, there's you know, we wrote about

674
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 9: Bill Pollian in the article. You know, those teams that

675
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 9: had to compete against Belichick haven't forgotten those things. But

676
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 9: I also think that, you know, for some of the

677
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 9: writers in the room, they're not as personally offended as

678
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 9: maybe someone like Tony Dungee or Bill Belichick would be.

679
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: Do we know, well, you got to get forty out

680
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: of fifty votes he could have gotten forty nine. I mean,

681
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean my take is, we don't know what the

682
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: vote total is. Seth, do you have any idea what

683
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: the vote total was?

684
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 9: I don't, and I do know that this is a

685
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 9: piece of reporting for my colleague Don van Natta, who

686
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 9: who we worked on the story together. Belichick was expecting

687
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 9: that he was going to get forty nine votes, like privately,

688
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 9: that was his expectation that he would get forty nine votes,

689
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 9: and obviously he didn't come close to forty And I

690
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 9: think that that's pretty interesting.

691
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 7: And again how that happened is really.

692
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 9: Difficult, Like it wasn't like the Hall of Fame wanted

693
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 9: us to break this story yesterday.

694
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 7: They didn't. And a lot of the voters didn't know

695
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 7: that Belichick hadn't gotten in.

696
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 9: You see a lot of their reactions on social media,

697
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 9: and they were blowing up Don and I's phones, for sure,

698
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 9: saying like this is an embarrassment for all of us.

699
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 9: We had no idea that Belichick didn't get in, you.

700
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: Know, I said, I was told by my producer the

701
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: only Baseball Hall of Fame inductee to get one hundred

702
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: percent of the vote was Mariano Rivera, And I said,

703
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: it's not because he was the most productive, it's because

704
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: he was great and the most humble, gracious human being

705
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: that's arguably ever played.

706
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 3: It does matter.

707
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: We're all in a people business, and Bill held grudges

708
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: to this day and can be petty.

709
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: And maybe there's a voter that was.

710
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: I do think when you build up walls, you may

711
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: lose a voter or too that you don't want to

712
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: hear that. You know, football doesn't have a morals clause

713
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: like baseball.

714
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, people are human.

715
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I think that probably cost him

716
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: a couple of votes.

717
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 9: No, well, my guess would be that there wasn't someone

718
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 9: who was going to vote for him who didn't vote

719
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 9: for him because of that.

720
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 7: But it may have not.

721
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 9: You know, it may have given some people the impetus

722
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 9: to say, hey, let's vote for Roger Craig and Elsie

723
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 9: Greenwood and robber Craft, right, because again, I think the

724
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 9: assumption among the voters was that Belichick was going to

725
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 9: get in, and so this result was as surprising for

726
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 9: them as it was for.

727
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 7: The rest of us.

728
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 9: You know, Bill Belichick was called by the Hall of

729
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 9: Fame on Friday as like a courtesy call.

730
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 7: To say that, you know, you didn't get in. You know,

731
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 7: don't come to.

732
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 9: Santa Clara and wait around for a knock on your

733
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 9: hotel door. It's not going to happen. And I think that,

734
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 9: like he was certainly disappointed by that, you know, as

735
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 9: one could expect, because again, it wasn't just the narrative

736
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 9: that you know, he's clearly a first ballot Hall of Famer,

737
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 9: it's that he himself expected that he would get at

738
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 9: least forty nine votes.

739
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: One more question. Two minutes you talked to Sean Payton

740
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: after the loss. He got beat up a lot, maybe

741
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: deservedly so for the fourth down call, I didn't mind

742
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: going for it. I did not like a rollout to

743
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: a backup quarterback. Bo Nick's rolling out is different than

744
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: Jarrett Stidham rolling out.

745
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: What did he say?

746
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, I spent a lot of time with Sean Payton.

747
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, I was in his office at

748
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 9: the next to the locker room in the stadium when

749
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 9: he walked in after the game, and I mean he

750
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 9: was a weathered and beaten and somewhat in shock person

751
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 9: and he said, you know, I can't believe we lost

752
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 9: that game. And the first thing he said was he

753
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 9: goes that fourth down. And you know, about twenty minutes later,

754
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 9: I did talk to him about that, and I think

755
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 9: that like he kind of philosophically was where you are

756
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 9: I think that he wanted to go for The Broncos

757
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 9: have general you know, each team has different metrics or

758
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 9: philosophies when it comes to first downs. The Broncos have

759
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 9: a general philosophy that if you drive down the field

760
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 9: and you're moving the ball, which they were, you go

761
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 9: for it. If you got the ball off a turnover,

762
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 9: you take the free points. So they were moving the ball.

763
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 9: Sean had called a run and the defense that they

764
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 9: came out in surprised him, so he called a time

765
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 9: out and he switched to a pass, and that's where

766
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 9: I think he made the mistake. I think, and I

767
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 9: think that he regrets the rollout pass and he wishes

768
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 9: that he had just stuck with the call that they

769
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 9: had before, or or by the way, gone to the

770
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 9: line tried to draw them off sides if they had

771
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 9: failed kicked the field goal. I think those are the

772
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 9: things he's thinking about now. But when I talked to him,

773
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 9: I didn't sense a lot of regret from going forward

774
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 9: on fourth down right there, he told me, because I

775
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 9: wanted it to be fourteen to nothing.

776
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 7: You know, I think that what he regrets is what.

777
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 9: Happened after the time out and the fact that they

778
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 9: and this is you know, look, it's not just Sean

779
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 9: Payton's fault, Mike Rabel. They had studied the Patriots defenses

780
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 9: on short yardage in the red zone and they were

781
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 9: mostly a man demand defense, and they came out and

782
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 9: played zone surprised the Broncos, and then that play had

783
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 9: no chance because of it.

784
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: Seth Wickersham, senior writer ESPN, been there more than two decades.

785
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: He always joins us on late notice. Great stuff on

786
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: Belichick and Peyton. Thank you so much, Seth. I appreciate it,

787
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Man.

788
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 7: Great to see you as always.

789
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, there is. There are just a lot

790
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: of things, so much of Hall of Fame voting. He

791
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: wants to now blow it up and start over. By

792
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: and large, the people in the Hall of Fames deserve

793
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: to be in Hall of Fame. There's every hall of fame.

794
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: It could be the culinary Hall of Fame, if there

795
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: is such a thing. There's some chef who is nice

796
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: to people and you know, didn't make the greatest food.

797
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: Okay, there's always.

798
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: Those kind of on the margins people that get into

799
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: Hall of Fames. I think they overwhelmingly eventually get it right.

800
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: We just don't like the timing of this. We don't

801
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: love the timing of it. Bill Belichick is getting in

802
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: and he may have gotten thirty nine. He may have

803
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: been one vote shy. This wasn't zero to fifty. Nobody

804
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: gave him a vote. I'm pretty sure of that. Hour

805
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: two Net