WEBVTT - P-Valley w Katori Hall 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:07.400 What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively gam 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.040 I'm so excited for today's guests because we're talking about 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.640 the hit television show on Stars P Valley. I mean, 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.880 I love that show, like it was so innovative. I 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:22.560 was like, what is happening? Oh my god. Yeah. The 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:27.040 series is an adaptation of Katri halls play Pussy Valley 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.240 and follow several people who work at a strip club 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.479 in the Mississippi Delta. The critically acclaimed and record breaking 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.400 series returned for its second season on June the three, 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.680 So if you haven't already, you gotta get to it. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.600 Joining me today is my guest Katri Hall. She is 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:51.480 a Pulitzer Prize, Olivier Award winning and Tony nominated playwright 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.280 from Memphis, Tennessee. The play that I love so much 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.680 that you wrote was Mountain Top, which was the fictionalized 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.240 version of the Last Night of Martin Luther King's life. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.720 I love that play. I didn't even know you had seen. Oh, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.720 of course, absolutely absolutely. I saw it in Baltimore. She 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.360 is the showrunner and executive producer of the hit Stars 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:21.480 drama series P Valley. So welcome Kuturi to positively, gam 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.920 I'm so happy to be here. And like I said, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.640 I'm such a such a fan, but we are a 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.040 fan of yours and definitely a fan of p Valley. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.760 So tell me what made you decide to write a 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.119 play number one about strippers and then to then turn 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.200 it into a television series like what Sparred that? So 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.800 you know, I'm just a home girl from the South 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.520 and I grew up going to shrip last okay, so 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:53.360 I knew that it was this strong, vibrant culture. I think, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.960 you know, when most people think about a shrip club, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.480 they think, you know, it's a full of sad, struggling women. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.840 And when I would go to strip clubs, I would 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.960 see athletes. I would see like do so latesque performers 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.080 whipping around the pole and so fast forward. I was 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.160 living in New York and I started taking pole dancing 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:19.320 classes myself, and yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah took 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.160 pole dancing classes. Like. I didn't do it for very long, though, 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.360 I have to say that I did not keep up 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.080 with it. I only took it. I only took three classes. 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.520 But it was very liberating. It really was absolutely and 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.560 what you said right there liberating, and when I took 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:40.320 those classes, I felt so sexually empowered. I felt limba, 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.600 you know, I was just like such a beautiful art form, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.760 and so I really wanted to dell them too, the 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.920 lives of the women who created this art form. And 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.800 I knew that obviously, you know, it comes out of 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.079 you know, the exotic dancing and the South, and so 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.400 I just really wanted to do this fusion of my 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.080 love for the South, my love for dancing, and my 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.920 love for just you know, women who are about their hustle. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.640 So I ended up researching it for six years. I 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.960 visited over forty clubs, interviewed over forty dancers. I remember 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.600 I celebrated my thirtieth birthday in the locker room of 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.560 Sin City in New York City. I was just really 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.079 in love with the strength of the women and how 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.240 resilient they were, even though, as we all know, the 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.120 choice is hard. It can be hard when it comes 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.480 to deciding to be a part of that life. And 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.560 so you know, Pussy Valley just ended up being this 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.960 excavation of the hardships, the struggles, but also the dreams. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.720 Like these women are dreamers, their hustlers, and so I 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.200 was just so grateful that I was able to research 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.120 for so long so I can get all these details. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.080 And so I ended up doing this play, which ended 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.040 up being produced at Mixed Blood Theater in Minneapolis. And 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.400 and when I saw the play, I was like, oh, Ship, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.280 this is the wrong medium. This is supposed to be 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.160 a TV show. Ah, So you saw that as soon 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.840 as you saw the thought as soon as I saw 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.720 the plays, like, there's so much going on, and I 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.400 wanted people to have Uncle Clifford and Mercedes and Miss 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.400 Mississippi in their living rooms, not just in the theater. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.479 I didn't want people to have to travel to a 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.200 space to be in the same room with them. I 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.279 wanted to bring those characters inside of people's houses. And 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.680 so that's why I decided to flip it into a 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.880 TV show, because TV is just such an accessible medium 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.480 and quite frankly my favorite medium. Yeah, it's so interesting 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.920 because I took that class, but I've never been to 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.600 a strip Closs know what we gotta get you to 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.760 the Closs. I know. Now I'm feeling like I've done 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:52.080 myself and injustice, like I probably need to actually experience 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.719 it live and see what it's really like. If I 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.719 were to do that, Katri, where do you think I 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.159 should go for that experience? You have to get down 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.400 to Magic City and they lay on them. Okay, Okay, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.720 I was so inspired by that place. We actually have 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.719 more than a few dancers who are our core dancers 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.520 who actually work at Magic City Kingdom Diamonds down in 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.320 Miami and in Atlanta. That got an Atlanta spot now 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.719 is a really great place to go, just because it's 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:24.400 a theatrical experience. It is, it's spectacle, its show. You know, 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.560 there's new to the Yes that it's kind of the 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.640 requirement being a stripper, But like I said, these women 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.360 are athletes what they can do on the pole with 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.080 their bodies and also together. Like I get blown away 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.480 when I see two women on the pole together because 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.720 they're literally holding each other up and the figure around 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.279 like the wind. So those are the two places that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.400 I think, you know you should go. You gotta get 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.480 down South because the other strip club culture is different. Yeah. 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:58.200 I actually am trying to plan a trip to Atlanta 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.279 and over this year for a different event, So I 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.080 might have to include a trip to what was the 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.480 name of it, magic Magic City City? Okay, I might 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.560 have to do that. So when you were in the 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:17.000 room pitching p Valley to the TV executives, you know 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.520 what was their response? They like, is this woman insane? 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.279 Or was it well received? Did they jump on it 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.320 right away? There was a lot of collection of pearls. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.520 I remember I brought this sizzle reel and it had 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:38.000 that song as the background, like cut off together, and 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.719 they were just like, whoa, this is a lot and 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.640 you don't. It's understandable, but also frustrating, right, you know, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.880 I knew that the strip club culture was something to 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.400 be celebrated and understood, and you know, they were just 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.040 looking at it with you know, something of their noses, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.920 and I'm like, oh my gosh, it could be exploited. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.680 It could you know, it could It could have easily 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.040 go in the complete wrong direction, in the wrong hands. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.720 I totally get that, totally got it. There are some 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.119 places that wouldn't even let me come in and pitch. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.840 They were like, no, we're not stepping on that cultural 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.200 land mind. But stars. I remember it was the last 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.640 place I pitched, and I remember I was late, you know, 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.800 the l A traffic, and I remember getting in there 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.200 and I just poured out, you know, the why of 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.800 why I wanted to do this series and tell this story, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.720 and I think at the core of it, you know, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.320 this is about celebrating the hard work and black women 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.760 and black women who are survivors. Yes, you know, this 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.800 particular profession is very complicated and not everyone understands it. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.679 It's very misunderstood. But they saw past the kind of lastidiousness. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.400 I think, you know, some people came to the pitch 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.000 with in their mind and they really saw the truth 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:51.480 of what I was trying to do, which was to 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.680 humanize this world and these women. And I think the 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.400 way that you do that, the way that you humanize 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.840 the character is by making them so three dimensional, like 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.840 we actually get into their lives so that we can 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.960 relate to them. Is that right? Absolutely? Absolutely? You know 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.640 that I was so blessed to have been able to 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.000 sit in not only the locker room with a lot 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.840 of these women, but also going to their homes, meeting 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:23.560 their sons, meeting their husbands, you know, really just integrating 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.000 myself into their lives like a fly on the wall. 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.720 And so I really created that almost journalistic approach when 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.280 it came to the research in helping me, you know, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:37.880 create this fictionalized world where everyone felt so human. Everyone 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.160 feels like a sister or a cousin or a mama. 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.440 You know, we know all of these women and all 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.240 of these men. We've crossed paths with them many times, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.520 and I'm just so glad that our audience not only 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.160 they see, you know, their family members, but oftentimes they 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.920 see themselves when they watch the value. Now, I want 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.600 to talk a bit about the casting too, because I'm 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.440 assuming the women men that are cast in the series 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.720 are real strippers. Is that correct or no? Then how 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.040 the hell did you so? How in the hell did 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.319 they learn to day? It was a process? Listen, because 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.080 what I have done is watch a pole dancing contest 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.599 on YouTube and you have to be strong and powerful 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.240 and it's no joke. It was crazy. What's so cool 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.679 is that we have very long casting process because for me, 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.160 as a writer, I'm very adamant that the soul matches 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.679 the soul of the character that I've created. Quite frankly, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.000 the acting and who that person is, what they're going 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.040 to bring to the role in terms of essence, it's 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.720 the most important thing I left out in that. Let's 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.839 talk about Brandy Evans, for example, she used to be 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.839 a background dancer. She's danced for Snoop Dogg, She's danced 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.920 for Katie Perry. She just she was a dancer. She 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.560 had never you know, stripped, but you know she knows 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.640 about a muscle memory and getting routines down and so, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.800 you know, for her, in terms of her particular trajectory, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.600 we just threw her in all dancing classes. She followed 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.000 dancers like she studied and learned the art of it, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.600 just like she learned the art of hip hop dance. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.000 Then you had other people like Shannon Thornton, who has 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.920 never been off the pole. In our lives. Let's step 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.840 back for a minute, because Brandy Evans plays Mercedes, so 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.480 she's the main character. So who is this So Shenon 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:40.280 Thornton plays Miss Mississippi, right, yes, and so that's her thing. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:47.840 But now she trained so hard, gotten so sore. You know, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.719 we put them like in a boot camp, so if 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.120 they were where of the city that they were living in. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.720 Once they got cast, we put them on a pole 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.280 dancing program and so they learned, you know, from level 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.520 one all the way as far as they could go 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.000 in terms of cultivating their skill set so that when 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.840 they got to set, they could do something. But of 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.600 course we have these amazing dance doubles who step in 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.600 and step up and do the way more complicated tricks. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.160 But let me tell you something, our ladies they sell 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.080 it like you could. You cannot think that it's knocked 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.600 them up on the pole, just because the way that 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.640 it's edited and just how hard they work, Like we 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.280 can really overlap a lot of their the dancing between 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.720 them and the doubles when people are watching the show. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.000 So it's been a hard road, but they're hard workers. 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.400 And so in terms of casting, you know, like I said, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.600 it's all about are they really good actors? They feel 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.400 like the character that comes first, and you know, the 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.920 skill set of pole dancing is something that they've all 0:11:51.000 --> 0:12:02.400 kind of trained together. Now, the first season of the 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:08.120 show was entirely directed by women. I'm sure that was intentional, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:13.080 and why it's interesting. I was open men directing, I 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.440 really was, but you know, I have a very tough 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.599 interview process. So I remember during the interview process, I 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.559 would be like, so what's your idea of the female gays? 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.720 And also interesting was that the male directors that I 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.880 you know, asked this question too. They never really have 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.680 thought about it, They had never really done it in 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.800 their work. They felt like it was necessary. And for me, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.280 the Female Gays is about centering the female experience looking 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.480 through a woman's eyes. And it just so you know, 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.599 every time a woman director, you know, stepped up to 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.440 the play, they had already been dealing with it within 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.080 their own work. And they also understood that, you know, 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:56.800 historically women have not been framed so particularly women like 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.760 strippers or or prostitute sex workers, and so you can 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.760 very easily just center on the sexiness of a woman 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.920 instead of who a woman is, who that character is. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.520 And so because this show is so much it's filtered 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.320 through the female games, it's you know, those women, those 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.560 female directors, they just answered that question so well that 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.240 it was just obvious that those were the women who 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.199 were the right folks for the job. Yeah, and like 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.160 you said, it is a topic and how it's portrayed, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.320 you know, is extremely important because it can go left 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.240 and they can go straight to the sex and the 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.839 sibiousness that tends to come along when you think about 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:43.120 strip clubs. For example, I remember asking a guy if 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.520 you were, you know, lensing a beautiful dance what would 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.840 you focus on? And the guy was like, yeah, we'll 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.320 travel the camera will travel down her body and we 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.360 will see her shape and then we'll go behind her 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.360 and to see how plump she is. And it was 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:01.720 just like, nah, do that? What do we need? So 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.680 when were the kinds of comments and that you've gotten 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.120 from fans of the show, Like when you're walking down 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.240 the street. I don't really be walking down the street 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.240 too much. I'm like, I'd be holed up in the 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.240 house trying to finish these scripts. But you know, when 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.520 I have been able to, like it's usually like my 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.280 you know, my family like it like gatherings, you know. Unfortunately, 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.880 hitter or whatever, they're just like, oh my god, look 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.880 cause listen you did. That's like my life. That's my uncle, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.680 that's actually me. You know. There's a lot of, like 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:39.640 I said, people feeling reflective. You know, sometimes people are like, okay, 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.960 episode two there was too much. There's a lot of 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.800 lu y'all went there. Now. I saw an interview when 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.480 you said that like Uncle Clifford was based on some 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.200 members of your family or people that you know. Is 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.320 that true? Absolutely true? So Uncle Clifford is a fusion 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.240 of my real Uncle Clifford, and my mom and my dad. 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.840 I wanted this character to feel very feminine and masculine 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.960 and equal measure, and so I just pulled the best 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.520 and the worst attributes from those three people and like 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.840 put it in a pot, mix it together, and then 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.600 out pop the fiction of Uncle Clifford. And something that 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.560 I like to do in my work is I always 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.600 love to name a really great character after a family member. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.320 It's a way to you know, pay homage to my 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.400 living ancestors, the people who are with me, who raised me, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.600 who you know, make me right the way that I do, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.480 which is you know, steeped in Southern nous and just 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.200 those kind of like quick witty things that Uncle Clifford 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.000 says and the rules. So it's the way that people 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:44.360 talk in the show is how I grew up speaking. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.480 And the people who you know, my closest family members, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.800 they just really poured that sound into me, and so 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.000 it comes out of my fingertips every time that I write. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.720 Now for the listeners, in case you don't know, Uncle 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:59.320 Clifford runs the Pink. The Pink is the club and 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.960 cal Clifford is the one who runs the club. Are 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.160 there any other characters that were plucked from your life 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.880 really feel like every single character feels like someone I've known, 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.440 or there's a sliver of me inside of all of 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.120 the characters, yes, in terms of their personalities. And I 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.680 grew up with all sisters, and so the sisterhood that 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.280 happens in the locker room and on stage and on 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.920 the main floor is something that I know very well, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.000 having grown up with a lot of women and a 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.520 lot of extrogens in the house, you know, for good 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.600 or or bad. It's inspired by everything that I've experienced 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.440 in my life, in addition to all of the research 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.200 that I've done over the years. When it comes to 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.480 strip club and strippers. Okay, then let's talk a little 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:51.160 bit about the relationship between Uncle Clifford and Little Murder 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.320 the rapper on there. I was surprised by that. Why 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.960 were you surprised? It just seemed like a hook up 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.680 to me. I just it's like, he's a rapper, Like, okay, 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.679 so what was that about. So that's exactly because I 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.960 wanted people to be like, oh my god, what is this? 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.840 They feel like a very odd couple. And yet yeah, 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.359 and all the undercover you know, because that's real. It 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.600 is some folks out here any streets and they're trying 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.199 to figure out who they are, who they're attracted to. 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.600 And it was very surprising, I think, you know, in 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.680 in that first episode to Uncle Clifford for a homeboy, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.320 Little Murder played by j Alfons Nicholson to be like, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.359 you know, all just like lovey dovey, like just looking 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.840 Uncle Clifford up and down. And so we really wanted 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.880 to center a black queer relationship in the show's still 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:51.399 very undercover undercover, particularly in season one, and you know, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.959 Uncle Clifford being much older than the murder, having gone 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.159 through a lifegown south where the home of o be, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.520 it just extremely rank it to the point where you know, 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.040 you know, you can get killed for being who you are, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.600 still can be killed for being who you are, right 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.520 and so really did not want to put their relationship 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.040 out on front Street, and the Little Murder was all 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.320 trying to you know, take care out on dates and whatnot. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.719 And so if anyone has seen you know, the first season, 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.400 at the end Latle Murder actually shuts her after all 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.160 that kind of you know, rolling up on her, and 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.040 that really is a slap in the face to the 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.280 character of Uncle Clifford because it's just, oh my gosh, 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:39.159 my my worst fear of not being recognized and embraced 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.680 by someone that I could potentially love. You know, it's traumatizing. 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.959 And so we spent the first season really looking into that, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.719 that down lowness and how it's very hurtful on an 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.840 emotional level. Um, and we're gonna pull that thread into 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.480 season two, and I hope people are ready for the 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.000 roller coaster that we're about to take them off. In 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.640 regards to those two write their yeah, I'm ready. Now. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.080 I want to talk a little bit about Mercedes and 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.480 her mom because I was sick of her. I was 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.879 sick of her mom at the end of Look girl, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:15.160 what church lady. Yes, it's poor Mercedes. Is she ever 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.360 gonna be without I guess you can't really give everything away, 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.280 but is she ever be able to recoup from that? 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.080 Because I'm like, that was everything. It was all her money. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.720 But for all y'all who don't know, like Mercedes, who 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.600 was our handline, our best dancer at the club, you know, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.720 she had been trying to retire for years in order 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.199 to you know, cultivate a relationship with her daughter and 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.439 to get this gym for these major retes. You know, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.119 she was a coach for a man, and so she 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.080 had say to all her scuirrell, all her money and 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:51.480 her hypocritical bible, something relot of a mama, her trees 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.880 would find deals, all of her money for the dance studio. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:01.320 And so her dream wiped out by her mother is trauma, 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:06.600 like like on on twenty five, like it just upended 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.560 everything that she'd have been working for. And so the audience, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.800 which totally made sense, hates her truths were by inded, 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.959 you know. And I think it's because you know, there 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.320 are a lot of mother daughter relationships that are very 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.440 traumatic and they're toxic, right, and I think that storyline, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:32.639 in particular, those two characters really allow us to see 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.200 our own relationships with our mother's and them and beyond 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.680 the relationship with the mother. For me, what was so 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.760 off putting was the hypocritical nature of her of the 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.280 mother with the church, the whole church thing, and you know, 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:50.120 the thing of being down south where there's these respectability 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.040 of politics at play, where you know, I ran into 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.159 that when I was even pitching the series, right in 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.160 these rooms where people were thumbing their nose I don't 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.679 know if we should do it show about strippers there, 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.840 you know, are these women who have family members who 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.959 they'll take the money that they're making, you know, shaking 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.680 it because right, they'll talk about them the next second, 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.959 because it's not seen as something that's moral. Um. And 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.760 I really wanted to highlight that because I just think 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.119 that there's a lot of judgment in our community, in 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.400 every community, real talk, and so I think this particular 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:32.120 relationship allows us to really deconstruct those feelings and those 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.040 tensions when it comes to how religion oftentimes plays a 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.960 very unfortunate role when it comes to how there's divides 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.679 and like moral judgment communities and our families. To lastly, 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.920 but not least, I love the relationship between Mississippi and Diamond. 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.520 Is that right? Yeah? Because I think Diamond is so sweet. 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.119 Are we gonna see that blossom more? We're gonna see something. 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.600 We're gonna see something. Okay, We're not gonna give it away. 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:09.719 I understand, I totally understanding. Before we wrap up, Cotri, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.040 I want to focus a little bit just on your 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.720 own career, and I wanted to know if there was 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:18.560 anyone growing up as you were coming and navigating your 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.200 career that you emulated. I actually had a conversation with 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.720 some folks and entertainment directors, and I was saying how 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.760 important writing is, and I just feel like we need 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:35.600 more writers. We need more Black writers, because I think 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.560 there's just such an array we have. There an abundance 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.600 of stories that we could be telling about our lives. 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.879 And it's not all just about slavery. It's all just 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:52.320 about you know, drugs and gangs. We live full lives 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.600 as a culture, just like anybody else, but the stories 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.480 aren't being told. So I just think writing is so 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.399 important because you can't You gotta start from somewhere, and 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:04.959 it starts with the writing. To me, I love this 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.640 question because as a Black writer, I am stepping into 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.760 such a beautiful tradition. There's so many amazing Black writers 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:20.200 that have come before me, whether it's Tony Morrison, August Wilson. 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.159 I would say, growing up, I thought I was going 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.679 to be a novelist. I didn't think that I was 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.720 going to step into the world of drama just because 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.400 you know, I'd like to be by myself. But then 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.359 as I grew up, I love the idea of community 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.080 and that's what drew me to theater. So I think 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.200 one of the writers that probably has influenced me the 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:45.600