Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host, Rams'.
Speaker 2: Ja he is Ramsey's Jaw.
Speaker 3: I am q ward.
Speaker 2: You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Yes you are, and we appreciate it. We are joined
Speaker 1: by our teacher, doctor Camilla Westenberg. If you don't know,
Speaker 1: she has been a decade long advocate for equality, both
Speaker 1: for women and marginalized communities. She is a charter member
Speaker 1: of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Additionally,
Speaker 1: she currently serves as the VP for Political Action of
Speaker 1: the Maricopa County Branch of the NAACP. She is a
Speaker 1: distinguished leader in the Alpha Cappa alph Sorority Phoenix Chapter.
Speaker 1: She is a member of the Phoenix Chapter of the Lynx.
Speaker 1: She is also a member of the Top Ladies of
Speaker 1: Distinction Phoenix Chapter, currently holding the position of Historian. Additionally,
Speaker 1: she is a life member of the National Council of
Speaker 1: Negro Women. She is here as herself, not any of
Speaker 1: the nonpartisan institutions that she is a part of, but
Speaker 1: she is indeed our teacher and she is going to
Speaker 1: help us make heads or tails of this next part
Speaker 1: of the show. But before we get there is time
Speaker 1: to be aba become a better ally. And what we
Speaker 1: want you to do this week in terms of becoming
Speaker 1: a better ally.
Speaker 3: Is to donate.
Speaker 1: Donate to the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
Speaker 1: I'm going to share something from their website for those
Speaker 1: that don't know in m AAHC, that's National Museum of
Speaker 1: African American History and Culture in AHC dot SI or
Speaker 1: Smithsonian Institution dot edu. I know that's a lot, but
Speaker 1: of course you can google them as well. All right.
Speaker 1: This is from their website. In their words, help us
Speaker 1: tell the full African American story. Join as a member
Speaker 1: of the National Museum of African American History and Culture
Speaker 1: to help elevate the African American experience to its rightful
Speaker 1: place at the center of our nation's history and culture.
Speaker 1: Please be generous and welcome to the museum family. Visit
Speaker 1: the gift membership page to give the gift of membership
Speaker 1: to someone special again that is in m.
Speaker 3: A HC dot SI dot ed.
Speaker 1: U, and then they have a thank you VENNMA share.
Speaker 1: It says thanks to these steadfast.
Speaker 4: Supporters of UH Sorry the stead Thanks to the steadfast
Speaker 4: support of our loyal members and donors, we are expanding
Speaker 4: and sharing digital resources with the world, impacting millions with
Speaker 4: unique stories from the collection, online exhibitions, and diverse experiences
Speaker 4: in American history all through the African American lens.
Speaker 3: Again, I want to restate that a huge part of.
Speaker 1: What funds these museums is people donating, and it is
Speaker 1: possible for us to sustain our institutions and run out
Speaker 1: the clock on the opposition there. And so if you
Speaker 1: are in a position, there is a way to do it.
Speaker 1: There is a path forward. And you know, everyone has
Speaker 1: to pick their battle. This might be the one that
Speaker 1: might resonate with you.
Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be large, not at all.
Speaker 2: All Right.
Speaker 1: Now, I want to shift gears just a bit, but
Speaker 1: I want to shift to a gear that you kind
Speaker 1: of touched on already, Doctor Westernberg. I'm going to share
Speaker 1: something here. It's from CNN. The Trump administration announced Monday
Speaker 1: that it would freeze two point two billion dollars in
Speaker 1: multi year grants and sixty million dollars in multi year
Speaker 1: contract value at Harvard University after the school said it
Speaker 1: would not follow policy demands from the administration. Earlier Monday,
Speaker 1: Harvard University said it would reject the Trump administration's demands
Speaker 1: for policy changes at the school in response to the
Speaker 1: funding freeze. The university referred CNN to its earlier statement
Speaker 1: that it would not comply with the administration's demands, specifically
Speaker 1: focusing on the following quote. For the government to retreat
Speaker 1: from these partnerships now risks not only the health and
Speaker 1: well being of millions of individuals, but also the economic
Speaker 1: security and vitality of our nation. The university received a
Speaker 1: letter from a federal task force last week outlining additional
Speaker 1: policy demands that will quote maintain Harvard's financial relationship with
Speaker 1: the federal government.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 1: We have informed the administration through our legal council, that
Speaker 1: we will not accept their proposed agreement, Harvard President Alan M.
Speaker 1: Garber said in a statement. Goes on to say, the
Speaker 1: university will not surrender its independence or its constitutional rights. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: at a time when authoritarianism looms, democracy is in jeopardy.
Speaker 1: The president is moving in a manner consistent with a dictator.
Speaker 1: Resistance is to be commended, it is to be applauded.
Speaker 1: Q and I had a conversation earlier in the week
Speaker 1: on the Black Information.
Speaker 3: Network where we discussed.
Speaker 1: President Barack Obama's response to Harvard, basically saying, bring it
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. And I don't want to talk too
Speaker 1: much here because I would definitely like to get your
Speaker 1: thoughts here. But you mentioned something in the first part
Speaker 1: of the show where you said that oftentimes the only
Speaker 1: time people will hear about certain histories is in an
Speaker 1: academic institution because some people don't make it to museums even.
Speaker 3: And Harvard.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where we landed, Q, but we did
Speaker 1: determine that Harvard was a among the top names that
Speaker 1: a person would think of when you think of higher education.
Speaker 1: And so for them to take this stance to reject,
Speaker 1: you know, the plight of this administration to erase history
Speaker 1: again is something to be commended. And I know you
Speaker 1: understand the importance of this move. Your thoughts.
Speaker 3: Well, I think a lot.
Speaker 5: Of it has to do with the financial equation and
Speaker 5: all of the instances.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's just like the African.
Speaker 5: American Museum, if the bulk of it is being funded,
Speaker 5: if it's a private entity being funded by people of
Speaker 5: the public, and a small segment of the funding comes
Speaker 5: from the government, your better position to survive and say no,
Speaker 5: we're going to go along with the omission. And and
Speaker 5: that is the way Harvard is positioned. To my understanding,
Speaker 5: that it is wealthy as a result of donors who
Speaker 5: believe in the enterprise of intellectual thought and research. And consequently,
Speaker 5: what funding may be taken away from the institution may
Speaker 5: hurt it in some way, but will not destroy it.
Speaker 5: For in some instances that's what has been occurring. Just
Speaker 5: if that industry is going to survive and those federal
Speaker 5: funds are taken away, then it literally destroys that enterprise,
Speaker 5: if you will. And so to think that Harvard has
Speaker 5: some principled individuals on its board and its president, it's
Speaker 5: alumni and it's students that will allow him it to
Speaker 5: take that stance and say, no, we are supposed to
Speaker 5: be the premier institution of this country and the world,
Speaker 5: and we are going to stand on that and not
Speaker 5: allow you to dilute who we are. And I applaud
Speaker 5: them for the position that they are taking. It's interesting,
Speaker 5: and again I have to say from a nonpartisan perspective, though,
Speaker 5: but if you look at the people who are in
Speaker 5: charge right now a number of them went to Ivy
Speaker 5: League institutions. But there is something.
Speaker 2: I don't want.
Speaker 5: What is that there's not jealousy or an insecurity, or
Speaker 5: there isn't the capacity to stand up in your own
Speaker 5: right being who you are next to someone else in
Speaker 5: their own right, being who they are, Okay, and stand
Speaker 5: tall each in your own right. What has to happen
Speaker 5: is they have to come and knock you down or
Speaker 5: take away. And in my mind, that's a weakness, although
Speaker 5: it's viewed as a strength other than money, and money
Speaker 5: isn't everything you said a minute ago earlier in the show.
Speaker 5: You know, none of us are going to be on
Speaker 5: this earth indefinitely. We're all going to be turned to dust. Dust,
Speaker 5: Thou art to dust, return it. That's going to happen
Speaker 5: to everyone. And what you have achieved is not.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna be able to take it with you.
Speaker 5: And my hope is that who you are, who you
Speaker 5: are is brought to the forefront and you know what
Speaker 5: your legacy was. My sensibility tells me if you stand
Speaker 5: and say I'm going to represent a country that believes
Speaker 5: in freedom of speech, and you take the oath, but
Speaker 5: you don't put your hand on the Bible.
Speaker 2: There's something to be said for that.
Speaker 5: Sure, there is really something you are not. There are
Speaker 5: so many things taking place right now that are hurtful,
Speaker 5: but one person not to understand the hurt and the
Speaker 5: damage that you are doing because of who you are.
Speaker 5: To take a student off of a campus.
Speaker 3: And take them.
Speaker 5: Out of this country and not have that person go
Speaker 5: through any kind of process to determine whether you are
Speaker 5: deserving to stay here to go? How can that be right?
Speaker 5: And how can you say you are the epitome of
Speaker 5: what you should be when you are exhibiting that kind
Speaker 5: of behavior. That's the reality of it. There is a
Speaker 5: lot of falsehood taking place, and then on top of that,
Speaker 5: when it's brought to your attention, there is retribution. Are
Speaker 5: your retalian? I have to be careful. I'm seventy seven,
Speaker 5: but I want to live longer. Why come at me
Speaker 5: because of what I say? Why take me out? There
Speaker 5: are people that are being harmed. Part of the reason
Speaker 5: that people are aligning themselves with some of the executive
Speaker 5: orders is because of finances, because of fear. And then
Speaker 5: there are others who want to move into this world
Speaker 5: of finances. I want to have I want to be rich.
Speaker 5: I want to think I'm more than and it's it is,
Speaker 5: in my estimation, the lowest of law of processes in humanity,
Speaker 5: and it is very sad for the United States of America.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Now, now, que I remember that, I don't remember the
Speaker 1: exact number, but we were talking about this, and you
Speaker 1: said that Harvard was indeed sitting on like I forget
Speaker 1: the name of the fund, whatever it was.
Speaker 2: You have about a fifty billion dollar endowment.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So so Harvard has enough to weather a storm, right,
Speaker 1: But there was another point that I want to I
Speaker 1: don't know if we had this in private conversation or
Speaker 1: we were talking on an episode or something like that,
Speaker 1: but you made another point.
Speaker 2: Q.
Speaker 3: About a lot of the.
Speaker 1: Capitalistic like businesses that pledged to start listening to black people,
Speaker 1: start hiring black people in numbers that reflect the population
Speaker 1: and reflect the skill set of human beings available to them,
Speaker 1: that committed to promoting black people and listening to black women,
Speaker 1: and you know, bringing diverse perspectives into you know, conversations
Speaker 1: that helped shape the future of these companies, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Those companies were perhaps well positioned to weather a storm
Speaker 1: in the same way that we're seeing Harvard doing it.
Speaker 1: And you know, your reaction to the stark difference there
Speaker 1: is I think worth repeating here, So give me your
Speaker 1: thoughts on those companies now that we see what's possible
Speaker 1: with Harvard.
Speaker 2: The more interesting thing, more than even Harvard having this
Speaker 2: endowment that gives them some financial and fiscal protection, is
Speaker 2: that they had to steal be okay with losing federal funding.
Speaker 2: As doctor Westernberg pointed out, a lot of these private
Speaker 2: corporations do not require federal funding to thrive. M that's good.
Speaker 2: So them kissing the ring or bending the knee.
Speaker 3: ORSU company makes pressure out of the.
Speaker 2: Administration, are more in line with them doing what they
Speaker 2: want to do and feeling some type of external pressure fiscally.
Speaker 2: Because a lot of these companies have lost billions of
Speaker 2: dollars in revenue, I think they forgot the two trillion
Speaker 2: dollars worth of buying power from our community alone and
Speaker 2: other marginalized communities who have stood in solidarity with us,
Speaker 2: you know, through this bit of a storm that we're
Speaker 2: going through, and it was really discouraging and kind of
Speaker 2: embarrassing that so many very very successful corporations and very,
Speaker 2: very wealthy people who had the autonomy to not have
Speaker 2: to just give in to these ideas. Not only did
Speaker 2: they give in, but again it was with no pressure.
Speaker 2: They voluntarily align themselves with this administration and with its mission.
Speaker 2: And that was scary, that was discouraging, it was infuriating.
Speaker 2: You know, we have conversations with people who have decidedly
Speaker 2: different political opinions and views than we do, but I
Speaker 2: try to always bring our conversations to a level of
Speaker 2: just basic humanity. I told a story on the show
Speaker 2: Once upon a Time, and I'm paraphrasing because I don't
Speaker 2: remember it in specific detail, but it was about a
Speaker 2: college professor who had a class and most of the
Speaker 2: students didn't pass an exam. It was a final, and
Speaker 2: it had a very heavy weight on their grades. This
Speaker 2: professor realized that some of the students would not pass,
Speaker 2: therefore would not graduate if they didn't pass this final,
Speaker 2: so he made a deal with the class. If everybody
Speaker 2: votes in unison, everyone pass is the final. And this
Speaker 2: story about humanity has a very partisan lens on it.
Speaker 3: At the end, Okay, I think I know where you're going.
Speaker 2: If every student in the class says yes, everyone passes
Speaker 2: the exam, and today's America that would be the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2: We don't want anyone to fail, So let's create a
Speaker 2: system where everyone can be successful. Let's call it DEI
Speaker 2: in this conversation, where everyone has access to success. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: every student in that class did not pass the final
Speaker 2: because they did not vote in unison. Because like the GOP,
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, the right wing, there were students in
Speaker 2: that class who also didn't not pass on their own,
Speaker 2: but did not want anyone that they deemed unworthy or
Speaker 2: undeserving of passing to pass either. So there are students
Speaker 2: who didn't pass on their own, who didn't even vote
Speaker 2: for themselves to pass because they didn't want a classmate
Speaker 2: who they thought might not deserve it to pass either.
Speaker 2: And that is just a lesson on humanity. There are
Speaker 2: those of us who will harm ourselves just to ensure
Speaker 2: that other people don't get a leg up, and there
Speaker 2: are those of us that would sacrifice the work that
Speaker 2: we did to assure that everyone has a chance. These
Speaker 2: are not political differences in views and values. These are
Speaker 2: humanitarian differences in views and values. So this is why
Speaker 2: those who marched, who stormed, and who adorned their heads
Speaker 2: with that red cap. I have a very very hard
Speaker 2: time having anything in common with you, because you've made
Speaker 2: a humanitarian decision that goes against the safety, the well being,
Speaker 2: the potential for a healthy, abundant life. You've gone out
Speaker 2: of your way to make sure that there are people
Speaker 2: who don't have access to that for no other reason
Speaker 2: than in most cases hate, and that is a very
Speaker 2: very difficult thing to reconcile.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that the gravity of that story is worth,
Speaker 1: you know, some some reflection, because, yeah, you knows, there's
Speaker 1: always this conversation about people voting against their own interests,
Speaker 1: but often enough I find that it's true, a especially
Speaker 1: true among poorer white folks in this country, in the South,
Speaker 1: especially where they.
Speaker 3: The aperture that they.
Speaker 1: Choose to lean into the Republican Party is through religion,
Speaker 1: and that's how they align and then they excuse everything else.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, yeah, a lot of the policies they are
Speaker 1: inherent in the party that.
Speaker 3: They vote for.
Speaker 1: Don't really create opportunities for them to advance their standing.
Speaker 1: But what they do is they make it harder for
Speaker 1: people that don't look like them, and that's enough, and
Speaker 1: that feels crazy but in order to have these type
Speaker 1: of conversations that we're having, and they have conversations across
Speaker 1: the aisle, you need a space to have discourse, to
Speaker 1: have a debate, to find out which ideas are going
Speaker 1: to survive, which ideas are worthwhile. And you know, as
Speaker 1: doctor Westernberg pointed out, the one place where that is.
Speaker 3: Celebrated discourse and the exchange of ideas.
Speaker 1: Is in the institutions of higher learning exactly.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I guess we'll leave it there.
Speaker 3: Any final thoughts, Doctor Westburn.
Speaker 5: I have to remain hopeful, Okay, I have to remain
Speaker 5: hopeful for you all, for my daughter, for my granddaughter,
Speaker 5: for myself, but senior citizens, for all of us, because
Speaker 5: we are all really in a state of uncertainty right now. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we are navigating as we go through our day, unsure
Speaker 5: of what's going to happen. We don't know if we
Speaker 5: are going to be labeled a citizen food serious. You know,
Speaker 5: at any point you walk out and there they are
Speaker 5: so apprehending you and taking you off and not giving
Speaker 5: you the opportunity to expound on who you are and
Speaker 5: to provide the necessary documents to prove that.
Speaker 3: We've seen it we've seen, so that's frightening. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, like you said, we have to remain hopeful and
Speaker 1: we will remain hopeful right here on Civic Cipher. So
Speaker 1: we'll leave it right there. Thank you as always, Doctor Westernberg,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: Coming on to the show.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Please lock in with us on all social media. You
Speaker 1: can find us at Civic Cipher. You can find me
Speaker 1: on all platforms at Rams's.
Speaker 2: Jah I am q Warred on all social media as well.
Speaker 3: And until next week, y'all be good to each other. Peace,