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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, we have another birthday edition of our Saturday Classics.

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Speaker 1: Today it is Emmy Nurture, who was a groundbreaking mathematician

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Speaker 1: and was born March two. We hope you enjoy her

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Speaker 1: mathematical world. Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class

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Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm CALLI Frying. I'm Tracy B. Wilson, and

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Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about a subject that was

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Speaker 1: directly inspired by a listener mail. And we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk in some detail about that listener mail at the end,

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Speaker 1: but just know that it did and we'll credit the

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Speaker 1: person when we get to the end, because it's pretty spectacular.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about a really important lady mathematician and

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Speaker 1: her the pronunciation of her name is a matter of

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Speaker 1: some debate here at the office and online. Uh so

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Speaker 1: it's Emily Nurture. You will sometimes also hear it pronounced

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Speaker 1: more like nuture. Well, and then when I looked it

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Speaker 1: up at four vough, the one German speaker pronounced it

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Speaker 1: more like yeah, and I was like, we can't say

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Speaker 1: it that way. That's not gonna work. So I think

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Speaker 1: we decided we're going to hover right around Nurture that

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Speaker 1: with all our possible respects to Emmy, and I hope

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Speaker 1: we do not offend her ghosts should it exist, or

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Speaker 1: German speakers, or German speakers, or people who love math

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Speaker 1: and love her as a figure. So we're just going

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Speaker 1: to jump right into talking about her. Emmy was born

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Speaker 1: Emily Emmy Nurture on March two in Erlangen, Germany, and

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Speaker 1: her father, Max Nurture, was a mathematician. Her mother, Ida

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Speaker 1: Amalia Kaufman, was from a very well to do family,

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Speaker 1: and after Emmy was born, Max and Ida had three sons,

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Speaker 1: although two of them died when they were very young,

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Speaker 1: only Emmy's brother, Fritz, survived to adulthood. And as a

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Speaker 1: young child, by most accounts, Emmy did not really stand

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Speaker 1: out as a specially gifted. She was a bright child,

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Speaker 1: but nobody was like, this is the future of mathematics.

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Speaker 1: She attended the State Girls School in Erlangen from ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: studying the basics of school curriculum, and she also took

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Speaker 1: piano lessons, and she learned to speak French and English,

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Speaker 1: and as she grew into her teen years, she loved

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Speaker 1: dancing and she was known as a very friendly, clever girl.

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Speaker 1: When she was eighteen, she was certified to teach both

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Speaker 1: French and English, and the series of exams that she

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Speaker 1: had to go through to get this certification was pretty

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Speaker 1: strenuous that it took four days for her to do this.

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Speaker 1: But instead of settling into a career teaching in girls schools,

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Speaker 1: she decided that she would go to university and study mathematics.

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Speaker 1: And this was a pretty big jump to suddenly make.

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Speaker 1: And we don't know why Emmy had this sudden shift

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Speaker 1: in interests. Her life up to this point had seemed

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Speaker 1: to follow a pretty standard course for a young woman

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Speaker 1: in that period of time in Germany from an intellectual,

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Speaker 1: middle class family. You know, she would potentially get married,

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Speaker 1: but if not, she had this cup job as a teacher.

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Speaker 1: And none of her personal writing from this time has

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Speaker 1: survived to offer us any clues why she suddenly decided

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Speaker 1: that what she really wanted was to pursue a mathematics career. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do know that it wasn't a completely foreign subject

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Speaker 1: to her. Her brother Fritz was studying mathematics at the time,

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Speaker 1: and her father also entertained other mathematicians in their home

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Speaker 1: from time to time. So she had been around the

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Speaker 1: subject of math her whole life. So while it does

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Speaker 1: seem like quite a shift to go from teaching French

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Speaker 1: and English to studying math, it wasn't something that was

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Speaker 1: completely new to her. And just the same though, this

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Speaker 1: desire to take university courses was incredibly ambitious. So the

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Speaker 1: schooling that girls received at this time in Germany was

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Speaker 1: vastly different from the way that the boys were educated.

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Speaker 1: The goal for a girls school was to turn out

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Speaker 1: proper young ladies or trade workers, depending on the young

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Speaker 1: woman's family background, and they just simply did not receive

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Speaker 1: the kind of educational groundwork that would make a transition

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Speaker 1: to university studies a natural step. Regardless of exactly how

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Speaker 1: it was that she arrived at this decision, Emmy went

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Speaker 1: to the University of our Langen to continue her education.

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Speaker 1: But because she was a woman and it was she

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Speaker 1: couldn't just enroll in classes. She had to get special

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Speaker 1: permission from every instructor of every class, and then she

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Speaker 1: couldn't actually enroll as a regular student. She could only

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Speaker 1: audit the class. She had to once again get special

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Speaker 1: permission to actually take the exams from the instructors. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so she uh really had to jump through every imaginable

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Speaker 1: hoop just to get this math education that she had

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Speaker 1: decided she wanted. Um. In July three, Emmy took the

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Speaker 1: enrollment exam for the university at the Royal Gymnasium in

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Speaker 1: Nuremberg and she passed, basically, proving at that point that

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Speaker 1: she was even with male classmates despite having missed their

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Speaker 1: educational background. After the exam, in the summer and he

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Speaker 1: started auditing advanced mathematics courses at the University of Linen,

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Speaker 1: and that started in the winter of nineteen oh three

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Speaker 1: oh four. During these winter courses, she learned from teachers

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Speaker 1: who would make incredible contributions in the world of mathematics.

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Speaker 1: Herman Minkowski, for example, developed the geometry of numbers. He

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Speaker 1: contributed to number theory, and he worked on relativity, influencing

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Speaker 1: his famous student Albert Einstein. David Hilbert, another of her instructors,

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Speaker 1: set the foundations for functional analysis. Felix Klein influenced the

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Speaker 1: development of mathematics is it related to representing the properties

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Speaker 1: of space and spatial relations through geometry. So she was

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Speaker 1: learning from serious heavy hitters. But in nineteen o four

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Speaker 1: she went back to the University of Erlangen because the

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Speaker 1: school had started actually accepting women as for real legitimate students.

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Speaker 1: On October nineteen o four, she was officially enrolled as

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Speaker 1: student number four eighties six, and she was the only

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Speaker 1: woman student in a field of forty seven. Emmy's mentor

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Speaker 1: during this time was Paul Gordon, who was a friend

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Speaker 1: of her father's as well as an influential mathematician in

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Speaker 1: his own right, and Emmy had known him since she

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Speaker 1: was just a child. He was very close with her

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Speaker 1: family and he has often described as sort of a

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Speaker 1: second father figure to her. He was, however, in terms

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Speaker 1: of personality, a stark contrast to her father. Max Air

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Speaker 1: Nurture was gentle and warm. He was passionate about his work,

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Speaker 1: but he is always described as sort of having this

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Speaker 1: overlying sense of calm about him. Gordon, who was nicknamed

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Speaker 1: the King of invariant Theory, was unlike Max, a more

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Speaker 1: dramatic figure. He was impulsive, He was expressive in very

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Speaker 1: unbridled ways. He was given to wild gesticulation while he

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Speaker 1: was talking, which I can identify with. Emmy was the

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Speaker 1: only doctorate student that that he ever mentored, and she

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Speaker 1: was really devoted to him. She kept a photo of

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Speaker 1: him on her wall for the rest of her life.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting when people describe Emmy's behavior, she is

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Speaker 1: sometimes described as having traits that are in some ways

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Speaker 1: more similar to Paul Gordon than her father, like she

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Speaker 1: too was given to serious gesticulation and kind of would

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Speaker 1: make messes and be very dramatic and very excited and

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Speaker 1: so passionate that she would kind of lose herself. But

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Speaker 1: she received her PhD in mathematics from Erlangen after several

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Speaker 1: years as Gordon's protege, and her thesis was a dissertation

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Speaker 1: on algebraic invariance, which she successfully defended on December thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of nineteen o seven. She was given her degree sumakun

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Speaker 1: lauda on July two of the following year. This timing

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Speaker 1: is really significant because co ed classes were not a

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Speaker 1: thing in Germany until nineteen o eight, the year after

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Speaker 1: she successfully defended her thesis. Any woman who had gone

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Speaker 1: through the education system prior to that had, like Emmy,

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Speaker 1: had to get special permission and was not granted equal

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Speaker 1: students status. Yeah, just for clarity, we mentioned that she

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Speaker 1: returned to Erlangen because they were doing it, but in

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Speaker 1: terms of Germany wide, women were still not considered equal

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Speaker 1: until that year after she defended her thesis, and in

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Speaker 1: nineteen o eight, Emmy attended the International Mathematical Congress in Rome, Italy,

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Speaker 1: and she attended that along with her father. She was

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Speaker 1: at this point still a young woman and relatively unknown,

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Speaker 1: despite sort of making this name for herself as an

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Speaker 1: unusual figure being a woman in a very male dominated field,

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Speaker 1: so it seems that during this particular conference she really

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Speaker 1: kept a fairly low profile. After Ms Nurture received her PhD,

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Speaker 1: she continued her research work at their Lingen, although she

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Speaker 1: wasn't paid for any of this work. She assisted her

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Speaker 1: father in his research and then she was invited in

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Speaker 1: nineteen o eight to join the Cholo Mathematico in Italy

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Speaker 1: and then in nineteen o nine the German Mathematical Union.

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Speaker 1: Emmy's first sort of professional lecture was in nineteen o

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Speaker 1: nine at the Salzburg meeting of the German Mathematical Union.

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Speaker 1: She lectured at the Vienna chapter of the group several

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Speaker 1: years later in nineteen thirteen, and not long after that

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Speaker 1: she also started guest lecturing for her father as a

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Speaker 1: substitute and during this same period. Although as we said,

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Speaker 1: we don't have writings from her, so we don't really

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Speaker 1: know how this impacted her, but surely it did. Emmy's mentor,

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Speaker 1: Paul Gordan, died in nineteen twelve, so just as her

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Speaker 1: career was taking off. So next up we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about a significant move in Emmy's life. But before that,

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Speaker 1: let's have a word from one of our awesome sponsors,

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Speaker 1: who keep the lights on here in our studio. That

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Speaker 1: sounds grand. So after eight years of post pH d

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Speaker 1: work at er Langen, her former teachers David Hilbert and

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Speaker 1: Felix Klein asked her to come back to gutting In

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifteen. And this was right after Albert Einstein

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Speaker 1: had published his Theory of General Relativity and Klein and

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Speaker 1: Hilbert wanted Nurture to work with them on unraveling the

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Speaker 1: mathematics that were involved in Einstein's work. And Nurture had

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Speaker 1: published several papers of her own by this time, and

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Speaker 1: she had really exhibited some insightful approaches to mathematical concepts,

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Speaker 1: so she was the perfect candidate to assist in Hilbert

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Speaker 1: Incline's work. She went to Goettingen, but this move turned

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Speaker 1: out to be extremely controversial. Many faculty members objected to

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Speaker 1: the idea of a woman on the teaching staff. If

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Speaker 1: Emmy notre couldn't be granted faculty status, Hilbert and Kline

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Speaker 1: wanted Hurt to at least have what's called a privat descent,

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Speaker 1: which is a position similar to a post doc. It

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Speaker 1: would have given Emmy at least an officially recognized post

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Speaker 1: within the Good Educational system, would also grant her sufficient

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Speaker 1: title and permission to teach for nurtures thesis to be accepted,

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Speaker 1: and for her to be granted this privat, the entire

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Speaker 1: philosophy faculty had to vote on it. And this umbrella

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Speaker 1: of philosophy, keep in mind, included not only philosophy, but

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Speaker 1: also history, natural sciences, and mathematics. And it turned out

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Speaker 1: that the math people there were pretty cool with Emmy,

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Speaker 1: but the non mathematics people in the mix, we're really

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Speaker 1: vehemently arguing against having a woman teach students. The arguments

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Speaker 1: against Nurture were that giving her a provactance and position

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Speaker 1: would mean that she was on track to be faculty

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Speaker 1: and what would the returning soldiers think when they came

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Speaker 1: back to war to find that they're supposed to take

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Speaker 1: classes from a woman. Yeah, they really framed it like

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Speaker 1: what a slap in the face that would be these

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Speaker 1: young men who had gone to defend the ideals of

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Speaker 1: Germany and they then come back and find a lady teacher.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, and keep in mind, this wasn't even soldiers

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Speaker 1: saying this. This was kind of the weird trumped up

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Speaker 1: argument that the non mathematics faculty was trying to put

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Speaker 1: together to keep Eman Nurture off of their cool kids club.

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Speaker 1: And her mentor and now colleague Hilbert's response was, gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: I do not see that the sex of the candidate

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Speaker 1: is an argument against her admission as a privatdot sent

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Speaker 1: After all, the sent it is not a bath house,

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Speaker 1: and he meant like the educational Senate, not their uh

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Speaker 1: government Senate. And his argument, though, didn't sway the detractors,

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Speaker 1: and Emmy was not granted this title. Hilbert and Klein

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Speaker 1: had to convince Nurta to stay for obvious reasons, but

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Speaker 1: she couldn't lecture under her own name, so they had

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Speaker 1: to come up with a sneaky kind of work around.

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Speaker 1: The lectures were listed under Hilbert's name, but Nurture was

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Speaker 1: the one who actually delivered them. Yeah, she worked under

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Speaker 1: his name for quite some time. Um in eighteen. However,

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Speaker 1: she has been doing this sort of sneaky workaround plan

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Speaker 1: for several years. At this point, she had developed at

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Speaker 1: through her work with Hilbert Kleine Nurture's theorem, which deals

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Speaker 1: with the relation between what are known as the symmetries

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Speaker 1: of a physical system and its conservation laws. So among

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Speaker 1: the revelations of this theorem is the linkage between time

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Speaker 1: and energy, directly related to the idea of conservation of energy,

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Speaker 1: so that in case you do not remember, is that

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Speaker 1: energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but merely changes form.

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Speaker 1: And this is incredibly significant stuff. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: really a huge part of physics as we know it, right.

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Speaker 1: It's an incredibly important concept at theoretical physics, and her

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Speaker 1: peers at the time recognized its significance, so much so

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Speaker 1: that the following year, Emmy not Are was finally officially

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Speaker 1: recognized as an academic lecture with the privit zodes and

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Speaker 1: title that we've been talking about for so long she

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Speaker 1: had to lecture without. She no longer had to lecture

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Speaker 1: under a male mentor's name, and this was obviously incredibly significant,

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Speaker 1: but uh, it's not maybe the huge win that we

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Speaker 1: would all be hoping for, because, just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: at this point, emmy noture was in her thirties, she

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Speaker 1: had published numerous influential and important papers, and she was

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Speaker 1: working with the best mathematicians at the time as a

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Speaker 1: respected peer of theirs on the mathematics of relativity. And

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Speaker 1: despite all of that, she had up to this official

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Speaker 1: um you know, kind of track to be in a

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Speaker 1: faculty position. She had zero stability or safety in her career.

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Speaker 1: But even though she now had a title but made

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Speaker 1: it okay for her to lecture as herself, her position

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Speaker 1: did not actually come with any pay. She would not

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Speaker 1: get any pay as a lecture until nineteen three, four

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Speaker 1: years after she was made of private dotes in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't know exactly where the money was coming that

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Speaker 1: supported her. Uh, this is one of those kind of

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Speaker 1: wiggily fuzzy points. Presumably she was getting some from like

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Speaker 1: a family fund and possibly sort of private grants from

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Speaker 1: other mathematicians, but we don't really knew. In she collaborated

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Speaker 1: with colleague Werner Schmidler to write concerning moduli in non

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Speaker 1: commutative fields, particularly in differential and difference terms, and this

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Speaker 1: publication really established, like without question, Nurture as a mathematician

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Speaker 1: at the very top of her field. While the start

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Speaker 1: of World War One kept her from traveling to speak

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Speaker 1: at gatherings of mathematicians, starting in nineteen twenty she was

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Speaker 1: often on the road lecturing throughout Germany, and from ninety

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Speaker 1: and nineteen twenty six Nurture's work focused on what's called

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Speaker 1: the general theory of ideals, no more commonly in modern

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Speaker 1: times as commutative algebra. Her work during this time united

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Speaker 1: a lot of different mathematical concepts, but this was in

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Speaker 1: terms of her personal life a period of ups and

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Speaker 1: downs for Emmy. In one, for example, her father died,

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Speaker 1: so at this point she was left without both of

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Speaker 1: her father figure mentors in mathematics, and in the middle

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Speaker 1: of all that work, as we said, she was given

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Speaker 1: a lecture ship specifically in algebra in ninety three. Just

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Speaker 1: two years later, and he's first student to complete a

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Speaker 1: doctorate under her mentorship received her PhD. Emmy had mentored

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Speaker 1: another woman, Greta Herman, through her thesis process and Herman

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Speaker 1: finished her doctorate in February nine, twenty five. Around nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty four, while she was working with Greta Herman and

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Speaker 1: lecturing and doing her research, Nurture was at the center

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Speaker 1: of this sort of interesting walking and talking phenomenon on campus.

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Speaker 1: Students and scholars alike would take long walks with Emmy

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Speaker 1: around the school of grounds, talking about what else mathematics

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Speaker 1: and math theory, and this informal group, which came to

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Speaker 1: be known as Nurtures Boys, included Russian scholar Pavel Alexandrov,

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Speaker 1: who was a visiting professor from the University of Moscow.

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Speaker 1: Nutter and Alexandrov became friends, and she was eventually invited

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Speaker 1: to Moscow as a guest lecturer in the nine academic year.

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Speaker 1: This was not the only international recognitions she was receiving

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Speaker 1: during this time, though. She also delivered a paper at

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Speaker 1: the International Mathematical Congress in Bologna, Italy that was in

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Speaker 1: nine and then a few years later in nineteen thirty two,

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Speaker 1: she addressed the same group in Zurich. In nine seven,

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Speaker 1: nursers focus shifted almost exclusively to noncommutative algebras, and these

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Speaker 1: are algebras where the order in which the numbers are

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Speaker 1: multiplied affects the outcome and nur There's work in this

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Speaker 1: area yielded a theory that enabled a conceptual unification of

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Speaker 1: all of them, and during her work in this phase

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Speaker 1: of her career, she collaborated with Helmet Hass and Richard

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Speaker 1: Brauer and published papers hyper Complex Number Systems and their

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Speaker 1: Representation in nine and non Commutative Algebra in nineteen thirty three.

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Speaker 1: From nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty three she also worked

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Speaker 1: as an editor on the German Mathematical Annual. Throughout all

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Speaker 1: of her research, writing and editing, she was also still

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Speaker 1: teaching regularly, but even so she was still employed at

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Speaker 1: a level far below what her colleagues thought she deserves. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even as male mathematicians were rising up through the ranks

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Speaker 1: in the Gutting gutting in educational system at a rate

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Speaker 1: that really easily outpaced Emmy, they were so hugely influenced

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Speaker 1: by her work that many of them tried to point

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Speaker 1: out how wrong this was and tried to petition for

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Speaker 1: an improved title on her behalf. It generally came to

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Speaker 1: not with the greater university system, but in terms of

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Speaker 1: the mathematics world. She was regarded not just as a peer,

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Speaker 1: but as a leader. At this point, n three would

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Speaker 1: prove to be a pivotal year for Nurture, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it after we paused to chat

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Speaker 1: about one of our awesome sponsors who keep our show going.

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Speaker 1: In ninety three, Germany changed, obviously pretty significantly when the

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Speaker 1: Nazi Party came into power. Emmy Nurture, who was Jewish,

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Speaker 1: lost her job, as did many of her colleagues. The

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Speaker 1: Nazi Party had actually passed a number of laws that

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Speaker 1: were intended to keep Jews out of civil service jobs,

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Speaker 1: and that included academics. For a while, Emmy gave informal

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Speaker 1: lectures at her home, and she certainly had students who

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Speaker 1: were eager to continue learning from her. She was apparently

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Speaker 1: not even bothered when a student or two showed up

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Speaker 1: in their Nazi uniforms. She just wanted to talk about math. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: her friend Pablo Alexandrov was working to get the University

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Speaker 1: of Moscow to appoint her to a position, and his

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Speaker 1: efforts were really passionate, but they were getting slow response,

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Speaker 1: and finally Emmy just had to make a decision about

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Speaker 1: her future. As tensions mounted in Germany, she left Germany

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Speaker 1: in October to move to the United States. She'd been

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Speaker 1: offered a one year guest professor spot at brent Mark College.

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Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to Nurture, when she accepted the offer, the school

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Speaker 1: was also setting up a graduate fellowship in her name

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Speaker 1: for the academic year she would be teaching there. She

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Speaker 1: also lectured and worked on her math research in Princeton,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, at the Institute for Advanced Study, and while

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Speaker 1: interest in her lectures was initially slow to catch on,

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Speaker 1: eventually Emmy did get a following of students, and she

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Speaker 1: sort of found this mirror group to the Nurture Boys

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Speaker 1: of gut In, but this group was called the Nurture Girls,

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Speaker 1: and they would go on hikes on Saturdays all the while,

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Speaker 1: just as she had in Germany, discussing mathematical concepts. Her

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Speaker 1: one year invitation to teach at bren Mar was extended

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Speaker 1: the following academic year of nineteen thirty five, but before

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Speaker 1: it started, she went back to Germany to visit her

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Speaker 1: brother Fritz and his family before they moved to Siberia

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Speaker 1: for a teaching position there. Like Emmy, Fritz lost his

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Speaker 1: job at the Institute of Technology under the Nazi government.

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Speaker 1: Emmy also visited her old campus and her friends at

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Speaker 1: gutting In, but she soon headed back to Pennsylvania for

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Speaker 1: another year at Bryn Mar and during her second year

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Speaker 1: there she mentored her first American PhD candidate, a young

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Speaker 1: woman named Ruth Halfer. The life of Emmy Nore ends

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Speaker 1: rather abruptly. In the spring of nineteen thirty five. She

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Speaker 1: went into the hospital to have an ovarian sister moved,

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Speaker 1: and while she seemed to be recovering well initially, she

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Speaker 1: died quite suddenly on April fourteenth, four days after her surgery.

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Speaker 1: Just a weeks later, on May third, of the New

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Speaker 1: York Times ran a letter that was written by Albert

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Speaker 1: Einstein about Emmy Nutter, and he wrote, within the past

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Speaker 1: few days, a distinguished mathematician, professor I mean Notre, formerly

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Speaker 1: connected with the University of Guttingen and for the past

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Speaker 1: two years at Renmark College, died in her fifty third year,

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Speaker 1: and the judgment of the most competent living mathematicians, Fraeulein

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Speaker 1: Notre was the most significant creative mathematical genius thus bar

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Speaker 1: produced since the higher education of women began in the

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Speaker 1: realm of algebra, in which the most gifted mathematicians have

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Speaker 1: been busy for centuries. She discovered methods which have proved

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Speaker 1: of enormous importance in the development of the present day

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Speaker 1: younger generation of mathematicians. And now while we have reached

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Speaker 1: the point in emmy story where she has departed this

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Speaker 1: earthly plane, there's a little bit more to talk about

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Speaker 1: in terms of her politics. And the reason that we're

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Speaker 1: putting that this at the end is because the primary

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Speaker 1: infra nation we have about it isn't from things that

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Speaker 1: came up in her actual lifetime or again her writings,

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Speaker 1: which we don't have. It's stuff that came up in

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Speaker 1: eulogies and memorials from colleagues after her death, specifically two

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Speaker 1: of them. In nineteen nineteen, Nature joined the independent Social

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Speaker 1: Democrats group and getting in and to some the group

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Speaker 1: was considered an extremely radical Bolshevik group. It was a

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Speaker 1: splinter group that broke away from the Social Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen as a centrist group between the Social

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party and the Communist Party of Germany. But two

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Speaker 1: of her close friends and fellow mathematicians interpret her politics

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Speaker 1: very differently. When they spoke about her life. First Herman

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Speaker 1: Wile while worked in analysis, number theory, foundational mathematics and

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, among other areas, and he met Nature in

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Speaker 1: gutting In in nineteen thirteen, and they remained quite close

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Speaker 1: throughout the rest of Emmy's life. And when while spoke

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Speaker 1: of Emmy's political stance, it was very much in the

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Speaker 1: vein that she was a pacifist and she definitely was,

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Speaker 1: we know that with great hopes for Germany's future, and

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Speaker 1: that really she saw the independent Social Democrats as the

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Speaker 1: next stage of the Social Democrats, not as a radical shift,

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Speaker 1: but as a gradual evolution. And he also wrote of

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Speaker 1: Emmy that quote, without being actually in party life, she

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Speaker 1: participated intensely in the discussion of the social and political

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Speaker 1: problems of the day. On the other hand, Pavel Alexandrov

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Speaker 1: characterized Emmy as very pro Soviet. He said that quote,

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Speaker 1: she always had a lively interest in politics and hated

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Speaker 1: war and chauvinism in all its forms, and with her

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Speaker 1: whole being, her sympathies were always unwaveringly with the Soviet Union.

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Speaker 1: So it seems based on the fact that Alexandrov was

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Speaker 1: working to get Emmy a position in Moscow in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three, that she was comfortable with the idea of

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Speaker 1: living in the Soviet Union, and the Bolshevik Revolution took

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Speaker 1: place while she was working in academia, so it's really

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Speaker 1: unlikely that she was blind or ignorant to the political

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Speaker 1: events that were playing out around her. But since both

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Speaker 1: of these men likely saw Emmy's political stance through their

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Speaker 1: own lenses and in the way they wished to see her,

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Speaker 1: and since we do not have any of her own

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Speaker 1: writing on the subject to reference, we really don't know

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Speaker 1: where she truly stood. What's really indisputable as that I

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Speaker 1: mean notre was a major figure in mathematics, both in

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Speaker 1: her time and today, as many others have built upon

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Speaker 1: her work, and she seems simply unflappable in the face

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Speaker 1: of the difficulties she faced as she made a name

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Speaker 1: for herself in a field that had very few women

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Speaker 1: in it. And so I wanted to end with a

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Speaker 1: quote from her friend Pavel Alexandrov, because it describes Emmy

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Speaker 1: in such a way that I think anybody would want

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Speaker 1: to know her. It says, quote her great sense of humor,

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Speaker 1: which made social gatherings in personal contacts with her so

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Speaker 1: pleasant enabled her to counter the injustices and absurdities that

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Speaker 1: beset her academic career easily and without anger. In such circumstances,

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Speaker 1: instead of being offended, she would simply laugh. But she

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Speaker 1: was very offended indeed, in protested sharply when even the

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Speaker 1: smallest injustice was directed at one of her students. I

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Speaker 1: love that quote. Um, there's really no substantiation in any way,

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00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: but there are. It will come up as theory sometimes

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00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: that she was connected romantically to either While or Alexandrov,

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Speaker 1: although we don't know, and none of them, none of

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00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: their letters ever hinted any of that, so we just

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00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: have no idea. But we do know that she was

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00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: very close with both of those men. So I love

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00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: that that sort of lovely description of her. Yeah. Um,

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00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: And now we'll get to the listener mail and inspired

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00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: this whole thing. And this is from our listener, Mark,

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00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: who is amazing, and he writes, Hi, Holly and Tracy,

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00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: I enjoyed listening to your podcast, and I thought you

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00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: might like a laser engraving of one of my favorite mathematicians,

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00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: Emmy Nurture. I did the engraving on one millimeter aircraft Plywood,

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00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: hoping that would make it a little more unique. I

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00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: listened to your podcast when I'm on the road or

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00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: in the lab a guitar lab. Really keep up your

447
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: great work. And Mark sent us this absolutely beautiful engraving

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00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: of Emmy and I just was so struck by it

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00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: that we had to do an episode. Yeah, and we're

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00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: going to post a picture of it. It's great and

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00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: it's uh So we've talked about how I don't normally

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00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 1: work in the same office as Holly anymore, and so

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00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: Holly will send me pictures of the things that come

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00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: into the office and are amazing. And that was whe

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00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: where I kept zooming in on my phone usually text

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00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Gorget like WHOA, what's happening. It's really it's very beautiful.

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00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: I love it. Mark, thank you so much. That was

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00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: so thoughtful and cool, and I appreciate that you took

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00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 1: time to make us a really famulous gift. We're very,

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00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: very lucky. Thank you so much for joining us on

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00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: this Saturday. If you have heard an email address or

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00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: a Facebook you are l or something similar over the

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00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: course of today's episode. Since it is from the archive,

464
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: that might be out of date Now. You can email

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00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: us at History podcast at how stuff works dot com,

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00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: and you can find us all over social media at

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00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: missed in History. And you can subscribe to our show

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00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the I Heart Radio app,

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00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: and wherever else you listen to podcasts. For more on

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00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how staff works

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Speaker 1: dot com