WEBVTT - What the Iran War Means for Dubai's Luxury Boom 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:14.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.760 Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.240 I'm Tracy Alloway. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.200 And I'm Joe Wisenthal. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.960 Joe, Obviously, there's a lot going on right now in 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.360 the Gulf. One of the things that's been happening is 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.279 that Iran, of course, has been sending drones across the 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.280 sea and over to the UAE and hitting various energy 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.200 infrastructure assets. But it's also been hitting some non energy 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:46.760 infrastructure assets such as hotels, you know, consulates, residences. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.040 Right of course, you know we've seen, for example, the 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.360 various strikes. We're going to talk about Dubai specifically in 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:59.000 this episode. The interesting thing about Dubai, as we know 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:01.600 is there's been a lot of people who've moved there, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.880 lots and lots of money, to say the least. But 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.200 part of the appeal there is here's an island of stability, 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.480 not just an island. And this is what the part 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.479 that enters me not technically an island, not technically an island, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.280 and not just an island of stability. Within the context 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.440 of the Middle East. There is this growing perception all 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.520 around the world, particularly in rich countries where people don't 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.840 like what's going on with taxes, where they don't like 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:32.120 feel safe about the trajectory of politics in these countries, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.760 et cetera. This sort of ongoing feeling of deterioration of 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.200 various flavors where they're from. And it's like, you know what, 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.280 I want to live in a country that has low crime, 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.040 a high level of stability, and sort of you know, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.000 to be crude, escape the failing West. Exit as they say, 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.760 in sort of the idea of exit, loyalty and voice 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:55.400 and so forth. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:55.720 Right. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.640 So this is really interesting because in addition to styling 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:04.800 itself as this sort of island proverbial island of stability, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.440 that's true, but they've also styled themselves as and I'm 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.440 stealing this from the guests that I will introduce in 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:14.880 just a minute or two, but they've styled themselves as 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.960 the capital of capital. Right. So, here is this region 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.160 that has an enormous amount of money from oil wealth, 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.680 and a lot of that money has been flowing into 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.320 not just real estate in the region itself, but real 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.680 estate externally in the West. We know that there are 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.000 big sovereign wealth funds in the Middle East and they 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.760 invest in all sorts of things. Lately, there's been a 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.960 lot of private debt investment, which is an interesting one 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.960 given the concerns around private lending at the moment. They've 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:52.440 invested in famously US treasuries. Tech stocks like the UAE 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.840 Saudi Arabia are huge, huge forces when it comes to 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.400 tech valuations at the moment. And so when you kind 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.160 of start connecting all of these things together, you have 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.600 to ask what does the situation in Iran actually mean, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.160 not just for the idea of Dubai and Abu Dhabi 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.840 as this sort of expat paradise, but also as this 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.920 locus of an enormous amount of money that tends to 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:19.720 flow around. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.760 The world absolutely and again like this is a place 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.280 where those with means, those with like lots of money 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.760 are feeling like this is this is arguably the future. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.440 This is where I want to set up shop. Ray 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.560 Zalio has a family office that's in the UAE and 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:41.000 so forth. And you know, historically there have been these places, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.240 these places where capital wants to be either have a 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.080 literal or sort of figurative footprint. Switzerland of course long 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.320 time in that category. Singapore perhaps similar, but you have 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.560 people in the West. You have a lot of people 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.840 in the UK and you're like, you know what, this 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.800 is where I'm going. This is my bet on the future, right, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.520 I'm betting my future, the future of my money, the 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.640 future of my business somehow to be domiciled figuratively or 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.760 literally in Dubai, the UAE, et cetera. 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.600 There's also something that the UAE in particular has done, 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.880 which is it's achieved this sort of diplomatic or strategic ambiguity. Yeah, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.159 I guess you could say where it's a place where 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.560 everyone from the US to Russia and to some extent 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.479 Iran can do business right. So there's a big question 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.640 over whether that continues at all. Anyway, we do, in 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.640 fact have the perfect guest. I actually think this is 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.400 a really good way to look at the sort of 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:41.360 interconnection of global capital and some of the gray market 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.719 stuff that happens in the UAE is through property and 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.800 commercial property in particular. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.640 Totally, And you know, I just want to say, this 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.760 is not the first time, you know, we've talked about 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.000 the UA. Certainly we've talked about the golf, but it's 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.280 even prior to the last few weeks. In my mind, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.840 I've thought I want to do more on this topic, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.919 specifically in England. It's a very big deal. It's a 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.000 very big part of the sort of news and politics. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.440 How many of their wealthy have left over the years 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.839 to go to the UAE and so forth. I wonder 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.679 to some extent the UAE. And I'm not the first 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.680 person to make this observation, but like the you know, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.080 if you imagine this place with an extraordinary amount of 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.800 abundant natural resources, et cetera, a world in which there 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.200 is an extreme and it makes a miracle look very 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.280 pale in comparison, an extreme gap between the haves and 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.560 the have nots, et cetera. Sometimes I think about, like, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.719 you know, is the future of the world? Essentially, do 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.240 buy a five where you have this very tiny slice 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.440 of people who are just insanely wealthy kind of you know, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.920 to use the popular parlance, a permanent underclass within the 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.080 same thing, a place where there a lot of these 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.320 successful people are like something you talk a lot about, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.800 which is is the future of the economy, just like 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.760 people who look really good and so forth. No for real, Yeah, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.839 and you know, we know that it's a home to 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.440 a lot of influencer is taking photos in front of 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.000 iconic hotels on man made beaches, et cetera. I have 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.479 this feeling that there is a version of the world 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.960 that looks like the UAE, for better or worse. So 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.359 I've just been thinking, both literally and sort of metaphorically, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.039 we need to understand these dynamics of the UAE better. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.080 It's funny because when I was an Abu Dhabi and 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:38.920 people asked me what it was like living there, I 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.080 used to say, it's like living in Texas in the 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.560 sense that you spend a lot of time in the 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.640 shopping mall, you spend a lot of time in your car, 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:46.640 and it's hot all the time, and you don't really 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.839 see that many people out on the street. Now I 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.159 kind of think, well, you know, maybe Abu Dhabi is 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.040 the blueprint for some places in Texas. But anyway, you 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:54.279 know what. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.280 I just say, you know what it looks like is 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.880 it looks like Miami. And if you've spent any time, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.760 like on North Collins Avenue and some of the architecture 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:04.640 and hotels, etc. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:05.240 There. 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.159 When I've looked at some of the recent photos, including 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.280 unfortunately one of the hotels that got hit, I was like, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.360 this could be like this could be a building that 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.600 went up two years ago in like somewhere in Miami Beach. 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.120 So so much to discuss, all right. 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.960 Rather than us spending more time discussing this, we do, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.320 in fact have the perfect guests, someone who's been on 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.880 the podcast before talking about real estate for the ultra wealthy, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.119 and someone who has personal connections to Dubai as well. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.280 We're going to be speaking with Hitten Stani. He is 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.200 the founder of ten thirty one Media and publisher of 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.840 the Promote. So, Hitten, thanks so much for coming back 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:40.560 on the podcast. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:41.680 Hey, good to be here. 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.000 Would you agree with that framing? How do you think 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:49.840 about you know, Dubai's reputation in the world in recent years. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.120 I think for the most part it's correct, I would 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.760 add to it. So, not only is it styled itself 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.800 as a safe haven to do business, I think where 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.320 it has probably gone further than any country in the 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.360 modern era is cherry picking the kind of society that 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.480 an ultra rich person would think about too. So there's 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.160 one thing to be in Singapore and say all right, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.080 make your money here, But we have a Singaporean society 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:16.240 that is very specific right in ubbe Dubai etc. It's 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.160 almost like a build your own bear kind of society. Okay, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.920 you're a wealthy person, come here. The only rule is 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.640 don't mess with our politics. You're never getting involved in 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.680 anything related to any sort of democratic debate. Outside of that. 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.480 You want to live a decadent lifestyle, we have everything. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.080 Set up for you. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.040 You want to live a pious lifestyle, it's all set 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.880 up too. We will guarantee you safety, and that's obviously 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.079 the big asterisk why we're talking today. Will guarantee you safety, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.920 will guarantee you an incredibly pro business environment, and you 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.839 can kind of stitch together this existence. I think there 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.839 is no other place in the world that has this 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.720 mix between the decadent and kind of the family friendly 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.920 life that the UA government has very very concernedly created 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.480 for the well healed globally. And I think Tracy had 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:05.000 made a point about sort of all these nationalities coming 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.880 together in this diplomatic xanadu. It's been true forever. 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.280 Yeah, it always reminded me a little bit of like Casablanca, 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.080 you know, all these years the day around, Yeah, exactly. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.400 I don't know what people do there. I don't know 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.040 if people work, I don't know if anyone actually does work. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.480 The only thing, you know, I see the Instagram photos, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.400 et cetera. But like, talk to us about the scale 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.880 of the influx, particularly among the global elite, and to 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.040 what degree is it a real phenomenon. You see people 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.160 talk about this on Twitter of like a certain type 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.560 of people who's kind of given up on the West 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.160 and they're willing to take that trade off. I bet 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.880 a lot of them if you'd asked them, they're like, yeah, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.720 democracy is good, et cetera like that, but they're like, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.800 you know what, I look at Western democracy and it 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.320 really does not look that good. It only looks in 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.520 one direction. I'm worried about communists taking over and taking 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.640 my money. I'm worried about all this, and Dubai looks 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.400 like this, you know, oasis and how big has that 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:08.280 trend to ground? 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.160 Sure, So there's two ways to think about it. One 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.680 is what you're talking about, which is sort of the chavvy, right, 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.600 the chav chavvy British influencer. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.600 Made a bunch of money because they were early to 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.200 Solana and yeah. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.880 Yeah, I saw someone shoot up outside my house on 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.120 a very nice street in the UK. I'm sick of this, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.679 I'm going to go over to Dubai twenty four to 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.520 seven son no taxes, blah blah blah. That is obviously 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:33.559 one component. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.160 Of four seven son. I'm pretty sure. 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.120 I mean, except when there's like a dust storm, they 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:38.880 pretty much do. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.480 Okay, Okay, I'll have to figure out the astronomy of 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:42.480 that one, but keep going. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.920 Well, they do cloud seating too, so they can mess with. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.520 The weather and ways they Okay think amazing. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:52.080 There is that cohort of sort of disgruntled let's say, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.720 upper middle class to wealthy people from places like the 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.520 UK et cetera. That's one class, and I think that 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.439 is culturally much more significant than it is financially significant. Okay, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.160 the other class, and I think the inflection point that 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.840 is probably the most logical to take is the Russian 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:14.160 invasion of Ukraine. Right around early twenty twenty two. There 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:19.680 was this unbelievable influx of people from let's call it 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.920 Russian Republic for just to make it a little easier 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.520 kind of that area of the world. All this money 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.560 flowed in, and now you look at parts of Dubai 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.120 that have been transformed by let's call it Russian wealth. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.840 Right there are parts of Dubai that look exactly like 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.280 Sunny Isles Beach in Miami, which is Russian wealth, Russian dominated. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.920 That's the tongue you hear in the streets, and the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.600 culture of it has been turned on its head very 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.280 dramatically and very rapidly. So unlike other places, Dubai is 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.240 very I'm going to pull up some numbers now. So 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.280 the city Dubai specifically is home to about three point 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.480 eight million people at the moment. I think when I 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.640 was growing up there in the nineties that was number 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.560 was probably close to two million, and it's expected to 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.840 surge by to five point eight million by twenty forty. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.440 So you're talking about adding two million people to the 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.120 city in what fifteen years or so, Right, that's gonna. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.800 Be a I'm already imagining what that means for traffic. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.080 I mean, it's traffic there is now kind of a 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.080 parody of itself, Like there is no way to gauge 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:28.280 what's going on. The metros are you know, in full capacity, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.200 but it's always terrible, right, So they do have all 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.079 these infrastructure problems similar to what Miami is going through now. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.600 But I think the difference in in the Ua in 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.760 general is the government is really on it. They're really 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.240 trying to create large scale solutions to a lot of 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.280 the problems that we have there. Right so be a 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.640 traffic they're building roads every single day. The joke is 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.640 that people like my dad who grew up there are 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.720 actually the worst drivers there because they try to go 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.240 by gut and they can't because there's always a new flyover, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.760 our new intersection, et cetera. But they're doing that the infrastructure, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.079 they're doing the cloud seating for the weather, They're trying 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.000 so many different social experiments for cohesion. There's a lot 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.800 going on, and I haven't seen a government as kind 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.680 of on it, which is why where we are today 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.120 is it's such a big question mark. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.960 What have you seen just in terms of property prices 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.880 in Dubai in recent years. So you mentioned the influx 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.320 of Russians my you know, anecdotally, I still have friends 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.360 in Dubai. They were saying that all the rents basically 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.360 went up for residential because you had this huge population jump. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.120 But I'm curious also what happened with commercial property prices. 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.080 I think a lot of the sort of the explosion 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:56.920 of growth in Dubai can be seen can be seen 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.720 in land prices. Land prices are up by a factor 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.000 for four forty to seventy percent, And this all stems 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.320 from the super luxury boom that Dubai has seen. I 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.280 think the last time we talked a year or change ago, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.880 I was telling you about the superprime luxury market in Dubai, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.880 which is globally defined by night Frank as sales of 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.880 ten million dollars or more. Dubai is leading the charts 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.360 for a long time. I think in Q three they 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.320 had north of two billion dollars of sales just in 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.560 the super prime category. So by volume they are they 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.000 have the most transactions of any market in the world 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:32.920 in this category. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:33.280 Right. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.360 So, because developers can get and this is something we 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.160 that is mirrored in Manhattan for the longest time. Because 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.720 developers can get that kind of pricing for condos and homes, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.360 they then go and buy more and more land. They 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.960 do some land banking, and because land has become so 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:53.120 expensive now, they're going and getting some exotic financing for it. So, Tracy, 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.720 you probably remember covering Sukuk and all the Islamic bond 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.760 stuff that is blowing up now in the real estate market. 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.640 So I think you guys had a stat. Bloomberg got 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.840 a stat that dollar bond in sukkook issuance has grown 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.640 more than twelvefold to six billion dollars since twenty twenty one. 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.760 Wow. When I'm in Miami and I love Miami, I've 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.760 never been to Dubai, but I love Miami. I'm going 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.960 to be sort of diplomatic in my words here about 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.480 when I'm in Miami, I get this feeling that it 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.000 is a very diverse on paper city. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:29.880 Right. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.960 You have your Russians, you have your other Eastern Europeans, 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.720 you have your Ironans, effect you have your Israelis, you 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:44.640 have your various multi obviously Latin Americans of various sorts, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.680 et cetera. There is this nominal diversity in terms of 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.680 the type of person who comes there, and yet everyone 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.720 sort of merges into the same guy, if you know 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.440 what I mean. They sort of dressed the same, they 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.520 drive this cars, they kind of talk the same. There 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.520 is this sort of I would say, ethnically ambiguous Miami guy. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.000 They end up all kind of looking the same, et cetera. 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.960 They have the same vibe. Is it sort of true 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.760 in Dubai? Do you have this sort of nominally diverse population, 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:24.080 but then when they're there, they suddenly fuse into Dubai. Guy, 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:25.680 do you know what I'm saying? 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.920 Hundred percent? Get it? Okay, this is yeah, one hundred percent. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.000 So a friend of mine recently went to what's known 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.040 as a watch party, okay, where it's a bunch of 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.840 guys who just sport their ice on the wrist, right, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.880 and and that that is exactly when you go into 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.320 a party like that, you will see people had every 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.400 nationality bound by just the love of that. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.320 I yes, yes they have this, yes. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:50.800 The masquerading love whatever you want. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.040 Yeah, there is this kind of Dubai type right, because 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.040 in a city where roots are not really a thing 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.360 for a lot of people, the external factors be more 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.800 and more important. The car I remember vividly. I was 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.040 out with friends for shisha and we were heading from 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.280 from I missed the shisha so much. It's probably, yeah, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.000 probably better for us that we don't smoke it all 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.520 the time now. But I remember going from a sort 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.280 of a pedestrian sheiesha place to a nicer sisha place 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.560 right so old part of town to new part of town, 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.800 et cetera. I remember this friend. We went home to 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.760 switch cars. That's the only reason we went this place. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.880 We went to the garage, we did not go inside. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.239 We switched cars, and then we went back out. This 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.840 is a very common thing that has always been a 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.400 part of Dubai. The difference between what you talked about, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.160 Joe and what happens in Dubai is it's not necessarily 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.719 a melting pot. It really is like it is it is. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.360 It is a collection of ethnic enclaves, right, and the 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.440 only thing they have in common is that they live 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.960 in Dubai. You can spend your entire life sort of 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:01.359 ghettoized in your with your type of people. Interesting, and 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.680 I think with so much influx that has only become 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.560 more accentuated now. It would be silly to say, oh, yeah, 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.240 you only see your type. I have friends from all 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.840 over the world. Anyone who lives in Dubai has had 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.640 that privilege too, right, Like you can kind of tap 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.920 into any culture you want. Yeah, but you can also 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.800 stay very fixated in yours. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:26.520 Let's say there's also a lot of racial stratification maybe 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.520 that's the right word, where you know, if you go 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.080 into a fancy restaurant, a lot of the people who 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.359 are like sat down will either be Amoradi or white, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.080 and all the servers and waiters are going to come 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.080 from Nepal or India. Like that happen. It's very noticeable. 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.000 Yeah, I think I think Tracy, a lot of that 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.720 has changed quite a bit, right, I think so much 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.400 money coming in from all parts of the world, including 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.439 South Asia, that that hierarchy that used to be so 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.200 preced there is very much diluted a little bit. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.000 So you will go to. 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.840 The top restaurant or top club and you will kind 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.720 of a United Nations type of vibe. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.239 Now, talk to us about what you're hearing just on 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.560 the ground in Dubai at the moment, because the information 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:13.479 flow is a little bit tricky. The UAE controls the 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:18.920 information that not only circulates domestically but also circulates externally. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.840 So while we have seen some videos of drones hitting 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.720 various buildings, it's not entirely clear. We're getting a really 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.760 good sense of the situation there. What are you hearing 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.080 from friends and family on the ground. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.440 So overwhelmingly the messages that things are okay in life 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.520 is moving on. I think anyone you talk to in 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.600 the region has a certain the information flow problem that 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.200 you kind of alluded to. That is very much a thing. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.919 Most people are getting their news and information from social 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:49.640 media nowadays. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:50.480 Social media is. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.119 Very tightly controlled in the UA and in the region 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:57.560 in general, so a lot of us who are have 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.680 Dubai sort of close to their hearts from the outside 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.240 end up seeing kind of more than we more than 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:05.399 the people back home do. 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:05.879 Now. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.560 There have been certain things, right there was an attack 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.960 on the airport that was major news. The government in 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.159 Dubai duscent or the government in the UE, sends out 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.679 alerts and all that, that's the kind of thing that 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.679 they see. But in general, and I think this is 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.880 going to be a broader part of our conversation, and 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.320 not to make a desert pun here, but the UE 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.520 has to project an image of an oasis of common stability. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:29.200 Right. 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.359 I like to say that New York is a great 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.199 city any day of the week, any weather, at all times. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.480 Los Angeles has to be on its best best weather 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.800 behavior at all times, and there is a similar analogy. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:41.520 To be made at the UAE. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.480 The whole game does not work unless it feels safe. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.320 That is the number one thing that the government talks 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.359 about that is the number one thing that investors taut 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.159 in their materials. When you're soliciting investment for the UAE 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.480 or convincing someone to move your business to the UE, 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.480 safety is the number one thing. And again we don't 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.320 know how bad this is. I think I'd like to 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.680 make an example from another neighbor of the UAE, the 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.480 Kutthery Energy minister. Did you guys see that comment? I 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.320 mean that is absolutely stunning. 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:11.920 Oh what do you say? 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:16.240 So the Iranians struck an LNG facility. 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:20.119