WEBVTT - Norah Jones/Don Was 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:22.516 Pushkin. Blue Note is one of the first and longest 0:00:22.556 --> 0:00:26.636 standing institutions of jazz music, and it's always been one 0:00:26.676 --> 0:00:29.596 of my favorite record labels. It started when my guitar 0:00:29.636 --> 0:00:32.556 teacher passed along Herbie Hancocks made in Voyage and the 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:35.276 self titled album from Art Blaking and the Jazz Messengers, 0:00:35.476 --> 0:00:38.716 the one featuring Monin. It was the music, of course 0:00:38.756 --> 0:00:41.476 that made the most lasting impression, but there was the 0:00:41.636 --> 0:00:45.836 artwork also. No label had cooler branding than Blue Note. 0:00:46.436 --> 0:00:48.436 Later I'd find out that was thanks to people like 0:00:48.516 --> 0:00:51.556 Reed Miles, who was the label's art director, and Francis Woolf, 0:00:51.596 --> 0:00:54.356 who was a photographer that became an important executive at 0:00:54.356 --> 0:00:57.436 the label shortly after its founding in nineteen thirty nine. 0:00:58.276 --> 0:01:00.236 And in those eighty five years, the labels put out 0:01:00.276 --> 0:01:04.676 albums by Robert glasper Lee Morgan, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, 0:01:04.956 --> 0:01:09.716 Bobby McFerrin, Gregor Reporter, and so many more. To celebrate 0:01:09.756 --> 0:01:12.596 eighty five years of music from this iconic label, I 0:01:12.596 --> 0:01:15.156 thought I'd get together with Blue Notes's current president, Don 0:01:15.396 --> 0:01:18.796 Was to speak with the labels past president in future 0:01:19.356 --> 0:01:24.356 that's Ron Carter, Michelle and Digiocello. Charles Lloyd, Julian Lodge, 0:01:24.836 --> 0:01:29.236 and today Nora Jones. Nora's been with Blue Note Records 0:01:29.316 --> 0:01:32.636 her entire career, starting with her Juggernaut two thousand and 0:01:32.676 --> 0:01:35.596 two debut Come Away with Me, to her latest album, 0:01:35.676 --> 0:01:39.316 Visions that was put out just this year. Visions was 0:01:39.356 --> 0:01:42.116 created with New York's Leon Michelle's of El Michelle's Affair, 0:01:42.476 --> 0:01:46.236 and there are two distinctive sounds, Nora and Leon's blend beautifully. 0:01:47.156 --> 0:01:48.956 Nora was the first interview Don and I did in 0:01:48.996 --> 0:01:52.236 this series. It came together quickly and Hollywood Studio Sunset 0:01:52.316 --> 0:01:55.076 Sound was kind enough to accommodate us at the last minute, 0:01:55.236 --> 0:01:58.596 not only for a chat with Nora, but also a performance. 0:01:59.276 --> 0:02:00.956 And I should tell you before we begin that you 0:02:00.996 --> 0:02:03.996 can binge the entire Blue Note Anniversary series early in 0:02:04.076 --> 0:02:06.756 ad free by subscribing to Pushkin Plus on the Broken 0:02:06.796 --> 0:02:09.956 Record Show page on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot 0:02:10.076 --> 0:02:16.676 fm Slash plus. This is Broken Record Liner Notes for 0:02:16.756 --> 0:02:20.196 the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Don Was and 0:02:20.276 --> 0:02:23.076 myself in conversation with Norah Jones. To see the full 0:02:23.156 --> 0:02:25.716 video version of this episode, go to YouTube dot com 0:02:25.756 --> 0:02:30.156 slash Broken Record Podcast Well I'm excited. This is the 0:02:30.156 --> 0:02:31.956 eighty fifth anniversary of Blue Note. 0:02:32.196 --> 0:02:32.836 That's wild. 0:02:33.636 --> 0:02:36.556 Yeah, the year twenty twenty four. We have Nora Jones here. 0:02:36.556 --> 0:02:39.436 We're going to celebrate the anniversary of Blue Note with 0:02:39.556 --> 0:02:43.156 the series of guests, our first being Nora Jones who's 0:02:43.436 --> 0:02:46.436 releasing her ninth album with Blue Note. The newest album 0:02:46.516 --> 0:02:50.596 is Visions. And also to celebrate, we have Don was 0:02:50.876 --> 0:02:53.876 president of Blue Note Records, and it's going to be 0:02:53.916 --> 0:02:56.036 a guest with us on these episodes. 0:02:57.036 --> 0:02:58.316 Lovely to be here. Thank you man. 0:02:58.596 --> 0:03:00.156 So excited to have the both of you here. 0:03:00.316 --> 0:03:01.116 Thanks and. 0:03:03.596 --> 0:03:05.676 Love the new album. I want to get to that, 0:03:06.116 --> 0:03:11.476 but first I want to ask Don your first recollections 0:03:11.516 --> 0:03:14.516 of Norah Jones as an artist. 0:03:16.636 --> 0:03:20.636 Sandra Bullock turned me on to you. 0:03:19.516 --> 0:03:21.676 In person or in the movie two weeks notice. 0:03:22.156 --> 0:03:24.196 I was going to work on that movie. Oh really, 0:03:24.276 --> 0:03:26.876 and she said, we want to have this artist. You 0:03:26.876 --> 0:03:28.476 got to hear this record, and it was I think 0:03:28.516 --> 0:03:30.636 before the album came out, but she had an advanced 0:03:30.636 --> 0:03:33.436 copy and she sent it to me. I said, yeah, 0:03:33.756 --> 0:03:36.196 it's incredible. And then I ended up not working on 0:03:36.196 --> 0:03:37.756 the movie. But yeah, but you. 0:03:37.716 --> 0:03:38.156 Were in it. 0:03:38.396 --> 0:03:39.036 I was in it. 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:41.756 I was in a scene that Donald Trump was in also, 0:03:41.916 --> 0:03:43.716 which is so weird going back. 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:48.196 Yeah it was, Yeah, it was cool though. She was 0:03:48.276 --> 0:03:50.756 really sweet. She loved me so sweet. 0:03:50.876 --> 0:03:54.076 Yeah, so she had how did she become aware of 0:03:54.436 --> 0:03:55.236 I don't know I had. 0:03:55.116 --> 0:03:57.836 An advance copy of the record, I didn't, And she 0:03:57.996 --> 0:04:01.436 was looking for music to put in her movie. I 0:04:01.436 --> 0:04:02.836 can't even remember the name of the movie. 0:04:03.076 --> 0:04:05.596 Two weeks notice Grant. 0:04:05.356 --> 0:04:06.076 Yes, that's right. 0:04:06.196 --> 0:04:09.836 Yeah, that's funny. I didn't know she had an advanced happy. 0:04:10.076 --> 0:04:15.196 I think we shot it somewhere in November, and the 0:04:15.356 --> 0:04:17.836 album had come out in February, and it was kind 0:04:17.876 --> 0:04:20.356 of a slow, steady rise that year. 0:04:20.916 --> 0:04:26.516 Yeah, it's that kind of is the perfect illustration of 0:04:26.596 --> 0:04:31.556 how quickly you kind of went from somebody playing music 0:04:31.636 --> 0:04:35.196 for fun to getting signed to recording an album and 0:04:35.516 --> 0:04:38.196 the album just sort of becoming a phenomenon. The fact 0:04:38.236 --> 0:04:41.076 that not early in your recording career you were and 0:04:41.116 --> 0:04:43.516 a Sandra Bullet. I mean, that was a huge movie 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:43.956 at the time. 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:44.916 You know, it's a big movie. 0:04:46.116 --> 0:04:48.996 Well, I want to get to that, but I'd kind 0:04:48.996 --> 0:04:53.516 of like to start at the beginning. Okay, I got 0:04:53.516 --> 0:04:57.276 this this image of grape fun Texas is then like 0:04:57.916 --> 0:05:05.076 the City and Last Picture Show like Tumbleweed. Yeah, it's 0:05:05.116 --> 0:05:06.916 not right suburb of Dallas. 0:05:07.236 --> 0:05:09.356 It's a suburb of Dallas. When I was little was 0:05:09.476 --> 0:05:12.036 very small though. There was a McDonald's and nothing else. 0:05:12.796 --> 0:05:16.676 But it is now like one of the biggest I mean, 0:05:16.756 --> 0:05:23.076 it's just I think strip malls and chain restaurants, and 0:05:23.236 --> 0:05:26.756 it's got one of the biggest malls in Texas. It's 0:05:26.876 --> 0:05:27.676 quite the suburb. 0:05:27.876 --> 0:05:31.436 Yeah, so it didn't have like a small town mentality 0:05:31.716 --> 0:05:32.076 to it. 0:05:32.556 --> 0:05:33.196 Maybe it did. 0:05:33.276 --> 0:05:36.316 I think it was kind of a small town when 0:05:36.316 --> 0:05:36.756 I was little. 0:05:36.876 --> 0:05:40.916 I really was only there until I was maybe I 0:05:40.916 --> 0:05:43.596 guess I was there till ninth grade. I kind of 0:05:43.636 --> 0:05:46.436 bounced around, though, and I bounced around schools a lot. 0:05:46.476 --> 0:05:48.396 And we moved to Alaska for six months. Then we 0:05:48.436 --> 0:05:50.636 came back and I went to the Junior High and 0:05:50.676 --> 0:05:53.156 then I went to Colleyville, which is the neighboring town, 0:05:53.236 --> 0:05:54.476 and then you know what I mean, I was kind 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:54.796 of all. 0:05:54.716 --> 0:06:01.916 Over because it seems a little incongruous that the world's 0:06:02.796 --> 0:06:06.676 most successful jazz singer comes comes out of great time, 0:06:06.756 --> 0:06:07.236 but maybe not. 0:06:07.436 --> 0:06:07.916 I don't know. 0:06:08.596 --> 0:06:12.876 I was in marching band in ninth grade and they 0:06:12.916 --> 0:06:17.876 had a I had a saxophone teacher, John Rosina, and 0:06:17.916 --> 0:06:19.676 I had quit piano at that time because I didn't 0:06:19.676 --> 0:06:23.276 want to practice anymore, and he turned me onto this 0:06:23.316 --> 0:06:26.476 piano teacher named Julie Bank who lived in the area, 0:06:27.076 --> 0:06:30.596 who was a jazz pianist because Dallas, you know, and Denton, 0:06:30.676 --> 0:06:34.796 Texas is a big jazz college. So that kind of 0:06:34.796 --> 0:06:37.156 got me going on on the jazz tip. But I 0:06:37.196 --> 0:06:40.196 grew up singing in church choir at Grapevine Methodist Church. 0:06:41.036 --> 0:06:45.236 Yeah, did you listen? Like, I got a son who's 0:06:45.796 --> 0:06:47.356 he's a year or two older than you, but I 0:06:47.476 --> 0:06:50.396 remember what he was listening to, and you know, like 0:06:50.476 --> 0:06:53.236 Paul Abduel and Millie Vanilli and Bobby Brown. 0:06:53.796 --> 0:06:57.876 You were absolutely I loved Paul Abdul that album. 0:06:58.316 --> 0:07:02.876 That one album was just it was huge when straight Yeah. 0:07:02.476 --> 0:07:05.636 Yeah, it's actually it was a great record. 0:07:05.676 --> 0:07:08.116 It was a great record. The songs are really good. 0:07:08.156 --> 0:07:11.236 I think I covered one on my during COVID because 0:07:11.276 --> 0:07:15.036 I was just like in a normal Yeah, I was 0:07:15.076 --> 0:07:17.356 into all that stuff growing up. I listened to case 0:07:17.396 --> 0:07:18.356 case them every weekend. 0:07:18.596 --> 0:07:20.156 Do you remember the first record you bought? 0:07:20.996 --> 0:07:26.996 Yeah, it was digital underground. Wow, that's the Humpty Dances. 0:07:28.516 --> 0:07:31.716 The radio. And then my first concert was EMC Hammer. 0:07:32.316 --> 0:07:35.396 Wow. Yeah, were you a shy kid? 0:07:35.676 --> 0:07:39.516 I was kind of shy. I wasn't that shy until 0:07:39.556 --> 0:07:41.636 seventh grade. I think in sixth grade, I was like 0:07:42.356 --> 0:07:46.556 completely unaware of how I was perceived, and I was 0:07:46.596 --> 0:07:49.316 completely open and you know that time in your life 0:07:49.356 --> 0:07:50.796 where you don't care what people think. 0:07:51.916 --> 0:07:53.676 And then I remember. 0:07:54.076 --> 0:07:55.916 There were some girls at school who were kind of mean, 0:07:56.236 --> 0:07:59.356 and I think I realized. For the end of the year, 0:07:59.716 --> 0:08:02.116 I just got really self aware and self conscious and 0:08:02.156 --> 0:08:03.236 I kind of went inside. 0:08:03.516 --> 0:08:07.036 You know, did you kounter of racism. 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:13.916 Towards me? Not that I was aware of. I never 0:08:14.116 --> 0:08:14.516 was aware. 0:08:15.316 --> 0:08:18.716 Yeah, I'm mixed as well. I'm black and white. My 0:08:18.716 --> 0:08:22.196 mom's white, my dad's black, and I feel like there 0:08:22.196 --> 0:08:24.836 was a time when it was less common to be mixed. 0:08:25.316 --> 0:08:28.876 So that was kind of like a weird experience not 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:33.356 knowing many other people who were of two cultures. Did 0:08:33.396 --> 0:08:35.876 you feel of two cultures or did you feel well? 0:08:35.996 --> 0:08:37.276 I felt a lot of. 0:08:39.716 --> 0:08:42.556 I mean, I didn't see a ton of my dad. 0:08:42.636 --> 0:08:46.676 I grew up seeing my dad, but because I wasn't 0:08:46.836 --> 0:08:50.996 in his culture, so much. I didn't feel very of 0:08:51.076 --> 0:08:55.676 two cultures, but I did feel a little different, and 0:08:55.716 --> 0:08:57.796 people never really knew what I was, and they would 0:08:57.796 --> 0:09:02.476 always ask, but they always assumed I was Mexican. Especially Yeah, 0:09:02.836 --> 0:09:04.916 and then like they would speak Spanish to me, and 0:09:04.916 --> 0:09:07.116 then I wouldn't speak Spanish because I didn't know Spanish, 0:09:07.116 --> 0:09:07.436 and then. 0:09:07.316 --> 0:09:10.236 I felt bad, you know, like I'm so are you like? 0:09:11.316 --> 0:09:15.756 But then yeah, and then in high school some people 0:09:15.756 --> 0:09:18.796 thought I was half black and they just didn't know 0:09:18.796 --> 0:09:21.276 what to make of me. But I never encountered any 0:09:21.716 --> 0:09:24.676 negativity from it. Just nosiness, you know what I mean? 0:09:24.916 --> 0:09:26.196 Yeah, what are you? 0:09:26.516 --> 0:09:29.996 That question was always funny, but I never got offended 0:09:29.996 --> 0:09:30.276 at it. 0:09:31.756 --> 0:09:34.716 So you fit in. I have this industry of being 0:09:34.836 --> 0:09:39.276 like like someone who was thirty years late for being 0:09:39.316 --> 0:09:39.996 a beatnik. 0:09:41.716 --> 0:09:45.316 Well, I mean, I think as a kid, I was 0:09:45.476 --> 0:09:48.316 just sort of like other kids, just weird. 0:09:48.396 --> 0:09:50.516 You know, all kids are kind of weird, I think. 0:09:51.316 --> 0:09:53.716 And then in junior I when kids were starting to 0:09:53.716 --> 0:09:57.516 get into football, especially in Texas, at cheerleading, I wanted 0:09:57.556 --> 0:09:59.236 to be a cheerleader and my mom wouldn't let me 0:09:59.276 --> 0:09:59.676 because it was. 0:09:59.676 --> 0:10:02.116 Too expensive, I think. And then. 0:10:03.556 --> 0:10:06.356 And then I got into band. So then I was 0:10:06.436 --> 0:10:09.876 with my people, the band nerds, you know. So I 0:10:09.876 --> 0:10:13.236 felt like you always kind of find your thing. And 0:10:13.276 --> 0:10:15.276 then in high school, I went to Performing Arts High 0:10:15.276 --> 0:10:20.076 School in Dallas, which was completely all all people of 0:10:20.916 --> 0:10:23.676 artistic you know interests, and. 0:10:23.636 --> 0:10:26.596 That's like I didn't like Roy Hargrove go to school 0:10:26.596 --> 0:10:30.316 and Erica Badri. Yeah. So it's a great school, great school, 0:10:30.396 --> 0:10:33.516 and there was an influence. There was an emphasis put 0:10:33.516 --> 0:10:34.076 on jazz. 0:10:35.196 --> 0:10:37.796 Yeah, I think I was a jazz piano major. But 0:10:37.836 --> 0:10:40.676 I still had to take a classical piano class, which 0:10:40.676 --> 0:10:42.676 I was horrible at, and I still had to take 0:10:43.956 --> 0:10:46.356 I took Actually it was kind of cool because they 0:10:46.356 --> 0:10:50.196 had a synthesis ensemble. Wow, And so I took a 0:10:50.236 --> 0:10:56.076 synthesis class with my heroes, some guys in my class. 0:10:56.516 --> 0:11:00.556 They were older and they really, I know, they were 0:11:00.596 --> 0:11:03.516 just really insanely amazing musicians. 0:11:03.556 --> 0:11:04.836 So that was really fun. 0:11:05.196 --> 0:11:07.796 We had like a d X seven and a Moog 0:11:07.996 --> 0:11:10.876 and we all the teacher encouraged us to al write 0:11:10.956 --> 0:11:12.756 songs and we actually put out. 0:11:12.636 --> 0:11:13.476 A cassette tape. 0:11:13.836 --> 0:11:14.636 It was pretty cool. 0:11:14.756 --> 0:11:18.436 I must somewhere my song I hated on it. I 0:11:18.476 --> 0:11:21.236 hated it so much because it had like synth strings 0:11:21.276 --> 0:11:23.156 on it, which wasn't really what I wanted. 0:11:22.876 --> 0:11:25.676 But that can be a rough sound. 0:11:26.956 --> 0:11:27.876 That's not what. 0:11:27.796 --> 0:11:30.236 I was going for, but that's what ended up happening, 0:11:30.316 --> 0:11:33.396 and it was fine, but it was just funny. 0:11:33.796 --> 0:11:37.356 You know, where did the where did the jazz come in? 0:11:38.116 --> 0:11:40.716 After I quit piano because I didn't want to practice, 0:11:40.916 --> 0:11:42.396 My mom said I had to take for five years 0:11:42.436 --> 0:11:44.156 and then I could quit it. So on five years 0:11:44.156 --> 0:11:47.916 on the dot, I quit, well, yeah, sixth grade, and 0:11:47.956 --> 0:11:51.956 then she took me to a big band concert at 0:11:52.676 --> 0:11:55.876 University of North Texas, which is funny. 0:11:55.756 --> 0:11:57.116 That's how I got into jazz. 0:11:57.796 --> 0:12:01.476 But I liked it, and so she found a saxophone 0:12:01.516 --> 0:12:03.556 teacher and that's when I joined the band, and then 0:12:03.596 --> 0:12:05.476 he found me the jazz piano teacher. 0:12:06.076 --> 0:12:06.276 Yeah. 0:12:06.796 --> 0:12:09.716 Yeah, I never made my kids practice. They're all three 0:12:09.716 --> 0:12:13.796 of my sons are musicians, and I start making him 0:12:13.796 --> 0:12:15.836 practice was like the worst thing, supposed to be the 0:12:15.876 --> 0:12:21.516 thing from work too. Yeah, but you got the background 0:12:21.756 --> 0:12:24.196 so when you wanted to, when you finally felt compelled 0:12:24.236 --> 0:12:27.076 to play, you didn't have to start from scratch. 0:12:27.236 --> 0:12:28.796 She was right, I had the foundation. 0:12:28.996 --> 0:12:30.236 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:12:30.516 --> 0:12:30.996 It was good. 0:12:31.556 --> 0:12:35.556 So then you went to North Texas and then I ended. 0:12:35.476 --> 0:12:37.876 Up going to North Texas. Yeah, for two years. 0:12:37.916 --> 0:12:40.436 From that it was really a jazz program. 0:12:40.596 --> 0:12:41.756 It was very jazz. 0:12:42.276 --> 0:12:45.396 And in high school I was in the vocal ensemble too, 0:12:45.476 --> 0:12:46.796 even though piano was my major. 0:12:47.276 --> 0:12:50.316 And then college same thing. I started out. 0:12:50.236 --> 0:12:53.316 Just doing piano and then I joined the vocal ensemble too, 0:12:53.716 --> 0:12:56.836 like the jazz singers, and so I sang a little bit, 0:12:56.916 --> 0:12:59.596 but it wasn't my main focus for school. 0:12:59.836 --> 0:13:02.716 You know. The only time I ever saw Willie Nelson 0:13:02.796 --> 0:13:06.316 get mad was in a session that we did, and 0:13:06.356 --> 0:13:08.596 he came back in the room to listen to a playback, 0:13:09.556 --> 0:13:15.476 and the engineer had his guitar down, and he just 0:13:15.476 --> 0:13:20.516 couldn't understand why anyone would separate his singing from his guitar, 0:13:20.516 --> 0:13:22.796 why they wouldn't be at an equal level, because to him, 0:13:23.036 --> 0:13:28.836 it was one form, one solitary expression was coming from 0:13:28.916 --> 0:13:30.796 his vocal chords or his. 0:13:30.676 --> 0:13:32.676 Fingers, that makes sense. 0:13:32.956 --> 0:13:36.796 Was there a point where the two became inextricable to 0:13:36.836 --> 0:13:41.556 you where you weren't like where it's just one expression. 0:13:42.476 --> 0:13:44.196 I mean, I don't think I realized it till the 0:13:44.236 --> 0:13:45.476 last ten years, but. 0:13:47.196 --> 0:13:50.476 I think in college because I sang and I played, 0:13:50.516 --> 0:13:52.916 but I didn't really do it together so much. I 0:13:52.916 --> 0:13:55.396 mean I tried, but I had a couple of demos 0:13:55.396 --> 0:13:58.116 where I did. But I got a gig at a 0:13:58.276 --> 0:14:02.276 restaurant in Dallas called Popolo's. It was an Italian restaurant, 0:14:02.996 --> 0:14:06.916 and somehow I got a gig playing every Friday and 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:10.396 Saturday night and if I could sing too, because that 0:14:10.436 --> 0:14:12.836 wasn't really the gig, and they said sure, but not 0:14:12.996 --> 0:14:15.916 like every song, and so that was my paid practice 0:14:16.156 --> 0:14:20.516 and that's how they got sort of like the coordination factor. 0:14:21.516 --> 0:14:25.036 Yeah. I don't know if people understand what a great 0:14:25.036 --> 0:14:30.476 pianist do. I hear it in your voicings are incredibly sophisticated. 0:14:30.916 --> 0:14:34.356 So you clearly study theory and you understand your scales 0:14:34.396 --> 0:14:37.916 and your modes and all that. And I just think 0:14:38.116 --> 0:14:40.556 you're such a great singer that it might get overlooked, 0:14:40.556 --> 0:14:42.276 but you're an incredible pianist. 0:14:42.476 --> 0:14:44.956 Thanks, don I mean, were you. 0:14:45.596 --> 0:14:48.076 In bands as just a keyboard player? 0:14:48.196 --> 0:14:49.276 No, I wasn't. 0:14:49.716 --> 0:14:53.556 I was still you know, as far as the piano 0:14:53.596 --> 0:14:57.436 players in college and high school, I mean everyone else 0:14:57.476 --> 0:14:59.956 could play circles around me. I never had a lot 0:14:59.996 --> 0:15:02.356 of chops. I still don't. I can't play very fast, 0:15:03.596 --> 0:15:05.996 but yeah, I have my own thing that has developed 0:15:06.036 --> 0:15:12.076 over the years. But I think just over the last 0:15:12.236 --> 0:15:14.716 ten years, even I've played so much more piano live, 0:15:15.516 --> 0:15:19.316 sort of stripping my band back into trio form at 0:15:19.316 --> 0:15:20.236 some point. 0:15:21.956 --> 0:15:24.396 That I've just I just have gotten. 0:15:24.116 --> 0:15:26.556 A lot better in the last ten years, and it's 0:15:26.596 --> 0:15:27.756 been really fun to play. 0:15:28.396 --> 0:15:28.556 You know. 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:31.676 I feel more connected to it than I did even 0:15:32.356 --> 0:15:33.276 fifteen years ago. 0:15:33.476 --> 0:15:36.596 You know, is it hard now when you have to 0:15:38.156 --> 0:15:40.836 when you're in a situation where you have an accompanist. 0:15:41.156 --> 0:15:42.916 Does that ever come up where you just have to 0:15:42.956 --> 0:15:43.596 stand and sing? 0:15:43.836 --> 0:15:46.316 I'm not great at it. I'm much better if I 0:15:46.356 --> 0:15:50.036 accompany myself. Yeah, And like if there's a situation where 0:15:50.036 --> 0:15:52.156 there's a house band or a tribute show, I always 0:15:52.196 --> 0:15:54.876 try to play, you know, because I feel like I 0:15:54.876 --> 0:15:57.956 can do my thing a little easier. But it depends 0:15:57.996 --> 0:16:01.196 on the situation, of course. Yeah, sometimes it's fun to 0:16:01.236 --> 0:16:03.356 have an accompanist if it's the right person. 0:16:03.516 --> 0:16:06.516 But so there is a bit of a willy thing though. 0:16:06.996 --> 0:16:10.076 It does feel like these are these I do these 0:16:10.076 --> 0:16:12.636 things together, not so much apart. 0:16:13.076 --> 0:16:16.276 I do think that where I can do my thing, 0:16:16.316 --> 0:16:18.676 which is more special. It's when they're together. 0:16:19.596 --> 0:16:23.076 Yeah, absolutely gives you something to bounce off of. 0:16:23.236 --> 0:16:23.436 Yeah. 0:16:23.796 --> 0:16:26.556 Also, I'm really not great at standing and singing because 0:16:26.596 --> 0:16:29.236 I don't know what to do with my hands. So 0:16:29.276 --> 0:16:31.036 even in college, I was in a couple of bands 0:16:31.036 --> 0:16:32.916 where I just sang, and I think it was a 0:16:32.956 --> 0:16:36.876 good match musically, but I always just they're looking really awkward. 0:16:37.076 --> 0:16:39.476 That's the whole other thing, especially if you're used to it. 0:16:39.556 --> 0:16:41.876 But I think it's rhythmically too. He I was just 0:16:42.116 --> 0:16:46.356 I was talking to Lucinda Williams who's having trouble guitar, 0:16:46.956 --> 0:16:51.756 and she just what she's got no rhythmic point of reference. 0:16:51.796 --> 0:16:55.196 Bob Villains another person like that. His guitar playing was 0:16:55.276 --> 0:16:58.556 so essential to the way he sang that when he 0:16:58.716 --> 0:17:03.756 stopped being the primary source of accompaniment, his singing changed, 0:17:04.316 --> 0:17:07.876 and he's been looking for a band that would play 0:17:08.916 --> 0:17:10.076 the he plays. 0:17:10.396 --> 0:17:13.116 But it's not that it's that he's doing the thing 0:17:13.396 --> 0:17:17.676 and filling the space with part of him. Yeah, probably 0:17:17.796 --> 0:17:21.836 it's more that that you're not filling the space. And Yeah, 0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:25.516 I feel like when I record, I'm always getting a 0:17:25.556 --> 0:17:28.356 better vocal and piano take. If I am doing it 0:17:28.396 --> 0:17:31.356 at the same time live. If I overdubbed the piano 0:17:31.676 --> 0:17:33.836 or the vocal, it can be cool if it's the 0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:36.076 first or second take. But the more I the more 0:17:36.116 --> 0:17:38.156 takes I do, I get really busy, or like I 0:17:38.196 --> 0:17:41.076 overthink or I over sing or I overplay, and it's 0:17:41.236 --> 0:17:42.516 just not the same. 0:17:43.196 --> 0:17:46.156 All right. So when you when you finally go to 0:17:46.196 --> 0:17:48.556 New York City, you dropped out of college, right, Yeah, 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:50.396 I did too. It's a good move. 0:17:51.476 --> 0:17:52.196 Well, I didn't want to. 0:17:52.276 --> 0:17:54.916 I didn't want to teach, so I didn't know that 0:17:54.996 --> 0:17:57.476 I needed a music degree. And I also failed my 0:17:57.556 --> 0:18:02.436 classical piano jury. That's I'm not proud of that, but 0:18:02.956 --> 0:18:03.756 I am not. 0:18:04.476 --> 0:18:05.436 Afraid to admit it. 0:18:06.036 --> 0:18:08.556 So I was also faced with like having to do 0:18:08.676 --> 0:18:11.956 six semesters of classical piano, and I had already failed 0:18:11.996 --> 0:18:14.916 the first one, which was pretty sad. 0:18:14.996 --> 0:18:16.116 So there was no alternatives. 0:18:16.156 --> 0:18:17.916 And it's really just because I didn't practice. It's not 0:18:17.916 --> 0:18:20.356 because I couldn't do it. It was because I didn't practice. 0:18:20.516 --> 0:18:23.076 Were you busy doing other things besides practicing? 0:18:23.516 --> 0:18:26.516 I mean I was practicing for other classes, I was 0:18:26.516 --> 0:18:29.076 playing in two bands, I was doing gigs, so I 0:18:30.156 --> 0:18:34.756 wasn't practicing my classical piano, got it or my arpeggios. 0:18:35.676 --> 0:18:38.956 It was back to the original. Yeah, quandary almost of 0:18:38.956 --> 0:18:42.836 your piano plan, being forced to do a site reading 0:18:42.836 --> 0:18:44.716 and classical and when you got in your own thing, 0:18:44.876 --> 0:18:46.636 fell back in love. But now you're kind of going 0:18:46.676 --> 0:18:48.796 back to this is not the stuff I like. 0:18:48.876 --> 0:18:49.836 Yeah, I didn't want to do that. 0:18:50.076 --> 0:18:51.596 Yeah, it's interesting. 0:18:51.756 --> 0:18:53.756 That's the same for me. I went to the University 0:18:53.756 --> 0:18:57.596 of Michigan, but this is in nineteen seventy and if 0:18:57.636 --> 0:18:59.396 you wanted to be in the music program, you were 0:18:59.436 --> 0:19:02.476 in the orchestra, or you weren't in the music program. 0:19:02.556 --> 0:19:03.156 Yeah, exactly. 0:19:03.196 --> 0:19:06.796 It was a recording lab or electronic music lab or 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:11.196 no jazz pro and nothing like that. Yeah, so I 0:19:11.236 --> 0:19:14.116 knew what I wanted to do. So when you got 0:19:14.156 --> 0:19:16.836 to New York, were you did you? Were you thinking 0:19:16.876 --> 0:19:20.636 that you'd be someone like Shirley Horn, you know, a 0:19:20.796 --> 0:19:21.636 jazz singer. 0:19:23.156 --> 0:19:26.196 I didn't really know, but at that point I was 0:19:26.236 --> 0:19:31.076 still way into jazz. And so I got a gig 0:19:31.156 --> 0:19:36.276 at an Italian restaurant, another Italian restaurant, but it paid 0:19:36.356 --> 0:19:38.796 way less than the Texas one, Did I tell you that? 0:19:39.236 --> 0:19:41.436 And I was just I was going to Smalls every 0:19:41.516 --> 0:19:43.956 night and watching people play and just so in love 0:19:43.996 --> 0:19:46.036 with going to hear music every night. I mean, I 0:19:46.036 --> 0:19:47.996 went out and I heard music every night of the week. 0:19:48.876 --> 0:19:52.476 And I would hear Brazilian bands, I would hear jazz 0:19:52.516 --> 0:19:54.316 I would go to you. 0:19:54.236 --> 0:19:56.596 Know, there were so many different jazz scenes too. In 0:19:56.636 --> 0:19:57.036 New York. 0:19:57.116 --> 0:19:59.636 There was there was the small scene, and then there 0:19:59.716 --> 0:20:02.396 was the tonic scene, which was kind of avant garde, 0:20:02.396 --> 0:20:03.996 and I knew some people in that scene, and I 0:20:04.036 --> 0:20:05.116 knew some people in that scene. 0:20:05.156 --> 0:20:07.916 So there was all these different scenes and talk as 0:20:07.956 --> 0:20:12.036 in it was a club, a club called. 0:20:15.636 --> 0:20:21.956 Yeah Yeah. And then I had friends who were songwriters 0:20:21.996 --> 0:20:24.116 and I would go see them play at the living room, right, 0:20:25.516 --> 0:20:27.476 And that was totally different for me because I had 0:20:27.516 --> 0:20:33.756 never thought about songwriting since my synthesizer class song that I. 0:20:32.756 --> 0:20:33.156 I don't know. 0:20:33.196 --> 0:20:35.796