1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,396 --> 00:00:22,996 Speaker 2: On the fifth day in the trial of US v. Kory, 3 00:00:23,636 --> 00:00:26,636 Speaker 2: right after the defense left the fundraiser for the Georgetown 4 00:00:26,716 --> 00:00:30,196 Speaker 2: University Athletic Department in small pieces on the floor of 5 00:00:30,196 --> 00:00:33,836 Speaker 2: the courtroom, the attorneys for Amon Kurry asked the judge 6 00:00:34,116 --> 00:00:37,956 Speaker 2: for a sidebar. They wanted to call a witness, a 7 00:00:37,996 --> 00:00:42,276 Speaker 2: surprise witness who the defense team had somehow persuaded to 8 00:00:42,316 --> 00:00:47,156 Speaker 2: make an appearance. She's in the bathroom, Howard Trebnick told 9 00:00:47,156 --> 00:00:49,916 Speaker 2: the judge. I just wanted to let you know. They 10 00:00:49,996 --> 00:00:52,676 Speaker 2: just whispered to me that she's coming. I didn't want 11 00:00:52,756 --> 00:00:57,276 Speaker 2: you too, his voice trailed off. The prosecutors in the 12 00:00:57,316 --> 00:01:00,076 Speaker 2: case from the US Attorney's office were there in the 13 00:01:00,116 --> 00:01:04,556 Speaker 2: sidebar too, standing right beside Shrebnick. And it is safe 14 00:01:04,556 --> 00:01:08,716 Speaker 2: to say this sudden revelation came as a shock to them. 15 00:01:09,196 --> 00:01:12,876 Speaker 2: They weren't expecting this particular witness to show up. They 16 00:01:12,876 --> 00:01:16,116 Speaker 2: were counting on her not showing up, and now she 17 00:01:16,316 --> 00:01:23,516 Speaker 2: was here in the bathroom. Fuck then, Howard says, and 18 00:01:23,556 --> 00:01:27,636 Speaker 2: we're going to propose to introduce text messages that she 19 00:01:27,756 --> 00:01:34,196 Speaker 2: wrote back in May of twenty fifteen, text messages. Fuck 20 00:01:43,156 --> 00:01:46,276 Speaker 2: my name is Malcolm gladwell you're listening to Revisionist History, 21 00:01:46,476 --> 00:01:50,596 Speaker 2: my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This is part 22 00:01:50,636 --> 00:01:53,636 Speaker 2: two of the story of my favorite court case of 23 00:01:53,756 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 2: all time, usv. 24 00:01:55,556 --> 00:01:55,876 Speaker 3: Coory. 25 00:01:56,476 --> 00:01:58,876 Speaker 2: In part one, which you should listen to first if 26 00:01:58,956 --> 00:02:01,796 Speaker 2: you have not already, we talked about how Roy Black 27 00:02:01,956 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 2: and Howard Strebnick were presented with an impossible case, a 28 00:02:06,036 --> 00:02:09,076 Speaker 2: client who openly admitted to giving one hundred and eighty 29 00:02:09,316 --> 00:02:12,596 Speaker 2: thousand dollars in cash in a brown paper bag to 30 00:02:12,636 --> 00:02:15,996 Speaker 2: the Georgetown University tennis coach in order to get his 31 00:02:16,116 --> 00:02:22,076 Speaker 2: daughter admitted to the school. Days one, two, three, and four, 32 00:02:22,196 --> 00:02:25,996 Speaker 2: the trial had been a disaster for the defense. Am 33 00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:29,076 Speaker 2: and Curry seemed destined for prison, but by the end 34 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:32,956 Speaker 2: of the Georgetown massacre on day five, Howard and Roy 35 00:02:33,156 --> 00:02:35,716 Speaker 2: had managed to introduce an element of doubt into the 36 00:02:35,716 --> 00:02:40,436 Speaker 2: minds of the jury. What exactly is or isn't a bribe? 37 00:02:40,716 --> 00:02:43,716 Speaker 2: And are the dubious actions of a wealthy man worse 38 00:02:44,276 --> 00:02:48,796 Speaker 2: than the dubious actions of a wealthy university. This episode 39 00:02:49,236 --> 00:02:52,756 Speaker 2: is about what happened in the afternoon on day five, 40 00:02:53,356 --> 00:02:58,516 Speaker 2: the aftermath of the Georgetown massacre. The mystery witness entered 41 00:02:58,556 --> 00:03:04,876 Speaker 2: text messages. What were the talk about the during the trial? 42 00:03:04,916 --> 00:03:08,316 Speaker 2: What you feel were the most significant turning points. 43 00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:13,556 Speaker 4: Most trials don't have one thing like that, but things 44 00:03:13,636 --> 00:03:17,356 Speaker 4: just developed. You know. The more you worked on it, 45 00:03:18,196 --> 00:03:20,756 Speaker 4: the more we got into the case, the more facts 46 00:03:20,796 --> 00:03:23,916 Speaker 4: we learned, the more details, the better it looked. 47 00:03:24,316 --> 00:03:26,476 Speaker 2: I talked with Roy Black when we met at his 48 00:03:26,516 --> 00:03:30,276 Speaker 2: offices in downtown Miami. Roy is a trial lawyer. He 49 00:03:30,316 --> 00:03:33,116 Speaker 2: and his partner Howard are maybe the greatest defense team 50 00:03:33,116 --> 00:03:37,596 Speaker 2: of their generation. They construct elaborate narratives out of mountains 51 00:03:37,596 --> 00:03:41,116 Speaker 2: of complicated facts. They are not mystery novelists who tell 52 00:03:41,156 --> 00:03:44,436 Speaker 2: stories with a clever twist on the last page. Things 53 00:03:45,116 --> 00:03:50,116 Speaker 2: just develop. But then Roy Black thought about it a 54 00:03:50,116 --> 00:03:54,956 Speaker 2: little bit and he said, well, actually, I take it back. 55 00:03:55,836 --> 00:03:59,916 Speaker 2: There was a knockout bunch. It was the mystery witness. 56 00:04:00,196 --> 00:04:04,236 Speaker 4: I mean to me, that was like an extraordinary event 57 00:04:04,356 --> 00:04:04,716 Speaker 4: at the. 58 00:04:04,716 --> 00:04:11,436 Speaker 2: Trial from the very beginning. And Howard had a problem. 59 00:04:11,756 --> 00:04:15,156 Speaker 2: They could show that Georgetown was a corrupt institution where 60 00:04:15,156 --> 00:04:19,036 Speaker 2: the lines between admissions and fundraising had been all but obliterated. 61 00:04:19,796 --> 00:04:22,876 Speaker 2: That was the point of the Georgetown massacre. But that 62 00:04:22,916 --> 00:04:24,756 Speaker 2: didn't resolve that problem. 63 00:04:25,036 --> 00:04:28,156 Speaker 4: If we say, Okay, the whole system's corrupt, and our 64 00:04:28,236 --> 00:04:32,196 Speaker 4: client took advantage of the corrupt system by paying money. 65 00:04:32,716 --> 00:04:35,996 Speaker 4: What are we doing. We're admitting that our own clients corrupt. 66 00:04:36,356 --> 00:04:39,996 Speaker 2: The Georgetown massacre, in other words, didn't win them the case. 67 00:04:40,556 --> 00:04:44,516 Speaker 2: It simply leveled the playing field. They needed something more, 68 00:04:44,996 --> 00:04:48,836 Speaker 2: another layer to their argument, proof that Georgetown was worse 69 00:04:48,916 --> 00:04:52,196 Speaker 2: than Amon Curry. And in the first few difficult days 70 00:04:52,196 --> 00:04:55,396 Speaker 2: of the trial, when the government was running roughshod over 71 00:04:55,436 --> 00:04:58,676 Speaker 2: at Amon Curry, Howard and Roy began to drop little 72 00:04:58,756 --> 00:05:03,556 Speaker 2: bread crumbs. They were cryptic. Chances are the jury missed them. 73 00:05:03,836 --> 00:05:06,756 Speaker 2: But if you read through the trial transcripts, all twelve 74 00:05:06,836 --> 00:05:10,676 Speaker 2: hundred pages of them, and you pay attention, it's obvious 75 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:15,676 Speaker 2: something is afoot. The first inkling came during an offhand 76 00:05:15,716 --> 00:05:20,036 Speaker 2: moment in Roy's cross examination of a Georgetown admissions officer 77 00:05:20,396 --> 00:05:24,436 Speaker 2: named Meg Lycey. Once again, we have our wonderful voice 78 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:27,356 Speaker 2: actors Dak Sheppard and britt Marling. 79 00:05:28,196 --> 00:05:31,916 Speaker 1: Listen, isn't it a fact that at Georgetown you have 80 00:05:31,996 --> 00:05:34,516 Speaker 1: a software called Salesforce? Don't you. 81 00:05:36,116 --> 00:05:38,076 Speaker 5: Not that? I remember? 82 00:05:39,316 --> 00:05:42,476 Speaker 1: Isn't it a fact that you have an investigation into 83 00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:45,756 Speaker 1: the net worth of the parents of potential students. 84 00:05:46,116 --> 00:05:51,436 Speaker 2: The prosecution jumps up immediately objection, which in retrospect was weird. 85 00:05:51,876 --> 00:05:54,556 Speaker 2: What was it about the mention of that word sales 86 00:05:54,676 --> 00:05:57,796 Speaker 2: force that led the government to stand up abruptly and 87 00:05:57,876 --> 00:06:03,196 Speaker 2: say stop no. But the judge won't have it overruled. 88 00:06:03,916 --> 00:06:05,636 Speaker 5: I don't know about that. 89 00:06:06,636 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 2: Lyce denies any knowledge. Roy moves on. Then, at the 90 00:06:10,916 --> 00:06:14,996 Speaker 2: end of the Georgetown massacre with Brenda Smith, he tries again. 91 00:06:15,716 --> 00:06:19,596 Speaker 2: He leads Brenda through a long series of questions about fundraising. 92 00:06:20,236 --> 00:06:23,916 Speaker 2: She's evasive in her answers. Then Roy asks, out of 93 00:06:23,956 --> 00:06:24,596 Speaker 2: the blue. 94 00:06:24,916 --> 00:06:27,516 Speaker 1: Does Georgetown use a program sales force? 95 00:06:29,436 --> 00:06:31,676 Speaker 5: It is my understanding that they do. 96 00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:34,196 Speaker 1: And what is salesforce? 97 00:06:36,356 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 5: It's a customer relations management tool. 98 00:06:41,276 --> 00:06:45,356 Speaker 2: Roy follows with a few more questions than he says, all. 99 00:06:45,356 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: Right, well, let me then show you a document marked 100 00:06:48,436 --> 00:06:48,876 Speaker 1: in you. 101 00:06:49,516 --> 00:06:52,276 Speaker 2: Roy is just about to put a document on the screen, 102 00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:55,196 Speaker 2: a document that he is desperate to show the jury. 103 00:06:55,396 --> 00:06:58,436 Speaker 2: His finger is literally on the clicker, but just as 104 00:06:58,476 --> 00:07:03,036 Speaker 2: he does, the prosecutor jumps up again objection. The judge 105 00:07:03,036 --> 00:07:08,796 Speaker 2: agrees sustained under the rules of a trial, if you 106 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:11,396 Speaker 2: have evidence you want to show to the jury. You 107 00:07:11,476 --> 00:07:14,556 Speaker 2: have to find a witness to authenticate it, someone who 108 00:07:14,596 --> 00:07:17,996 Speaker 2: will say it's real. That's what Roy is trying to 109 00:07:17,996 --> 00:07:21,236 Speaker 2: do with Brenda Smith, get her to say, yes, I 110 00:07:21,316 --> 00:07:24,596 Speaker 2: know all about that, but he's shut down. Your honor 111 00:07:24,956 --> 00:07:30,796 Speaker 2: objection sustained. You have what you think is a knockout punch, 112 00:07:31,036 --> 00:07:34,996 Speaker 2: and you can't show it to the jury. Plan A foiled. 113 00:07:35,636 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 1: So what do you do? 114 00:07:37,316 --> 00:07:41,676 Speaker 2: You go to Plan B. The mystery witness and the 115 00:07:41,716 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 2: text messages a little bombshell dropped in the middle of 116 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:47,436 Speaker 2: the sidebar. 117 00:07:49,716 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 1: Your honor, we call Katherine Coury. 118 00:07:56,756 --> 00:08:00,036 Speaker 2: There had never been any indication during the first few 119 00:08:00,116 --> 00:08:03,516 Speaker 2: days of usv. Coory that the person at the heart 120 00:08:03,556 --> 00:08:07,036 Speaker 2: of the case, the person on whose behalf Amon Curry 121 00:08:07,076 --> 00:08:10,116 Speaker 2: had paid one hundred and eighty thousand dollars in cash 122 00:08:10,396 --> 00:08:13,636 Speaker 2: to the coach of the Georgetown tennis team, would show up. 123 00:08:16,196 --> 00:08:20,436 Speaker 2: The government's lead prosecutor made this clear in his opening statement. 124 00:08:20,956 --> 00:08:23,756 Speaker 2: He told the jury, we're not here because of the 125 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:27,116 Speaker 2: defendant's daughter. You're going to hear about her grades and 126 00:08:27,156 --> 00:08:29,516 Speaker 2: her test scores, the fact that she wasn't very good 127 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:32,556 Speaker 2: at tennis. But to be clear, we're not here because 128 00:08:32,596 --> 00:08:36,636 Speaker 2: of Katherine. We are here talking about Catherine because of 129 00:08:36,676 --> 00:08:41,636 Speaker 2: the crimes the defendant committed outside of her formal application process. 130 00:08:42,396 --> 00:08:44,356 Speaker 2: So during the trial, we're going to ask you to 131 00:08:44,396 --> 00:08:48,756 Speaker 2: focus on the defendant's actions and his words and those 132 00:08:48,756 --> 00:08:55,036 Speaker 2: of his co conspirators. In other words, the prosecution wanted 133 00:08:55,076 --> 00:08:58,276 Speaker 2: to make a case about Katherine Courry's shortcomings as a 134 00:08:58,316 --> 00:09:02,836 Speaker 2: tennis player and student without the awkwardness of actually having 135 00:09:02,916 --> 00:09:06,916 Speaker 2: Katherine speak for herself. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, 136 00:09:07,476 --> 00:09:11,636 Speaker 2: we would prefer if catherine career remains an abstraction. But 137 00:09:11,716 --> 00:09:13,796 Speaker 2: of course, if you are the legal team of Black 138 00:09:13,836 --> 00:09:17,276 Speaker 2: and Shrebnik and you sense a certain reluctance on the 139 00:09:17,276 --> 00:09:20,276 Speaker 2: part of your adversaries to confront the person at the 140 00:09:20,276 --> 00:09:23,956 Speaker 2: heart of the case, what do you do You convinced 141 00:09:23,956 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 2: the person at the heart of the case to make 142 00:09:26,836 --> 00:09:27,476 Speaker 2: an appearance. 143 00:09:32,836 --> 00:09:36,116 Speaker 4: I would say the one thing that stands out that 144 00:09:36,356 --> 00:09:41,676 Speaker 4: really made a huge difference was the daughter testifying introducing 145 00:09:42,116 --> 00:09:45,396 Speaker 4: the text messages with her father. I mean, to me, 146 00:09:45,556 --> 00:09:52,236 Speaker 4: that was like an extraordinary event at the trial, and 147 00:09:53,116 --> 00:09:56,236 Speaker 4: I thought it was really a great part of the case. 148 00:09:56,916 --> 00:10:00,156 Speaker 2: Why is that? Explain to you why you think that 149 00:10:00,196 --> 00:10:02,396 Speaker 2: testimony would have been so powerful for the jury. 150 00:10:02,956 --> 00:10:08,876 Speaker 4: A couple of reasons. Number one, in terms of POI 151 00:10:09,916 --> 00:10:16,476 Speaker 4: and speaking, she had such authenticity about her. I know 152 00:10:16,516 --> 00:10:19,156 Speaker 4: that authenticity is like a cliche these days, but she 153 00:10:19,956 --> 00:10:24,476 Speaker 4: came across very well as a witness Number one. Number two. 154 00:10:25,316 --> 00:10:31,436 Speaker 4: The government amazingly change after her testimony. Never changed their 155 00:10:31,476 --> 00:10:32,516 Speaker 4: theory of the case. 156 00:10:32,916 --> 00:10:33,076 Speaker 6: Ah. 157 00:10:33,196 --> 00:10:37,876 Speaker 2: Yes, the theory of the case, the explanation given for 158 00:10:37,916 --> 00:10:41,036 Speaker 2: the nature of the crime. The government laid out their 159 00:10:41,036 --> 00:10:45,196 Speaker 2: plan of attack with their very first witness, Timothy Donovan. 160 00:10:45,836 --> 00:10:48,556 Speaker 2: Remember him from the Boozy Dinner at the Capitol Grill. 161 00:10:49,156 --> 00:10:51,476 Speaker 2: He played on the Brown tennis team way back when 162 00:10:51,756 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 2: with Amon Curry and Gordy Ernst. He ran and still 163 00:10:55,396 --> 00:10:59,156 Speaker 2: runs by the way an outfit called Donovan Tennis Strategies, 164 00:10:59,436 --> 00:11:02,836 Speaker 2: whose goal, according to its website, is to help parents 165 00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:09,876 Speaker 2: with quote successfully navigating the college recruiting process end quote. 166 00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:13,636 Speaker 2: Donovan helps tennis players avail themselves of the back door 167 00:11:13,996 --> 00:11:18,516 Speaker 2: that elite colleges reserve for tennis players. In the Cory case, 168 00:11:18,836 --> 00:11:21,596 Speaker 2: that meant he was the bagman who picked up the 169 00:11:21,636 --> 00:11:25,476 Speaker 2: money for Aymond Coury, got twenty k for himself and 170 00:11:25,516 --> 00:11:29,276 Speaker 2: delivered the brown paper bag to Gordie Ernst's wife. The 171 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:33,676 Speaker 2: government gave immunity to Timothy Donovan, and Donovan in return 172 00:11:33,956 --> 00:11:37,876 Speaker 2: provided them with their theory of the case. Listen to 173 00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:41,956 Speaker 2: this excerpt from Donovan's testimony on day two of the trial. 174 00:11:42,556 --> 00:11:45,556 Speaker 2: He's being questioned by one of the prosecutors. 175 00:11:45,836 --> 00:11:47,756 Speaker 5: Did there come a time when you discussed with the 176 00:11:47,756 --> 00:11:51,356 Speaker 5: defendant whether Catherine would in fact play on the Georgetown 177 00:11:51,436 --> 00:11:55,596 Speaker 5: tennis team. Yes, what did you discuss about that? 178 00:11:57,276 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 1: He said that she didn't have any plans to play 179 00:11:59,956 --> 00:12:02,076 Speaker 1: in that as a matter of fact, that you know, 180 00:12:02,436 --> 00:12:05,716 Speaker 1: her old shoulder injury would kick in and she'd be 181 00:12:05,996 --> 00:12:07,596 Speaker 1: unable to play for that reason. 182 00:12:08,556 --> 00:12:12,396 Speaker 5: And based on how the defendant described Catherine's old shoulder injury, 183 00:12:13,276 --> 00:12:17,116 Speaker 5: what was your understanding as to the nature of that injury. 184 00:12:17,396 --> 00:12:20,236 Speaker 1: That was not legitimate, that it was a story that 185 00:12:20,276 --> 00:12:21,836 Speaker 1: would allow her to not play. 186 00:12:22,836 --> 00:12:27,316 Speaker 2: The prosecution painted a picture of a conspiracy, Gordy Ernst, 187 00:12:27,636 --> 00:12:32,636 Speaker 2: Timothy Donovan, and Amon Curry conspiring to deceive Georgetown into 188 00:12:32,676 --> 00:12:35,956 Speaker 2: thinking they were getting a real tennis player. And what's more, 189 00:12:36,196 --> 00:12:39,836 Speaker 2: Amon Curry and his daughter Catherine conspiring to fake an 190 00:12:39,916 --> 00:12:43,276 Speaker 2: injury so she would never have to reveal how unworthy 191 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:46,636 Speaker 2: she actually was of playing tennis at Georgetown University. 192 00:12:47,116 --> 00:12:50,956 Speaker 7: So when the daughter gets to the school as a 193 00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:55,156 Speaker 7: tennis admission, she then doesn't play tennis. 194 00:12:55,596 --> 00:12:58,636 Speaker 2: This is Jackie Purchek, one of the Black Shrebnik partners 195 00:12:58,796 --> 00:12:59,876 Speaker 2: who worked on the case. 196 00:13:00,276 --> 00:13:04,236 Speaker 7: She doesn't go to practice and never practices with the team, 197 00:13:04,276 --> 00:13:07,156 Speaker 7: and never play tennis. And so the government fed off 198 00:13:07,196 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 7: of that to come up with this theory that she 199 00:13:10,876 --> 00:13:15,516 Speaker 7: knew all along that this was paid for admission, because 200 00:13:15,516 --> 00:13:17,996 Speaker 7: otherwise she would have shown up to play tennis. 201 00:13:18,436 --> 00:13:22,076 Speaker 2: This was the theory on which the prosecution based its case, 202 00:13:22,556 --> 00:13:25,716 Speaker 2: and it came gift wrapped and tied with a bow 203 00:13:26,236 --> 00:13:29,236 Speaker 2: from Timothy Donovan. Why would they advance the theory about 204 00:13:29,236 --> 00:13:31,236 Speaker 2: the daughter having never talked spoken to. 205 00:13:31,236 --> 00:13:33,716 Speaker 4: The daughter because they had the fact that she never 206 00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:36,196 Speaker 4: as Jackie just said, she never went to play tennis, 207 00:13:36,196 --> 00:13:39,276 Speaker 4: So they just assumed. See what I think what happened 208 00:13:39,676 --> 00:13:43,716 Speaker 4: with the case is that remember they have a slam 209 00:13:43,796 --> 00:13:47,516 Speaker 4: dunk all along, you know, fifty five or fifty six cases, 210 00:13:47,556 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 4: how many They didn't think that this was going to 211 00:13:49,956 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 4: be a problem at all. They thought the client was 212 00:13:52,556 --> 00:13:54,996 Speaker 4: going to plead guilty to begin with, and then then 213 00:13:55,036 --> 00:13:57,116 Speaker 4: he didn't. Then I guess they got ready for Troyal. 214 00:13:57,356 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 4: I don't think they took it that serious. 215 00:14:02,036 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 2: I don't think they took it that serious. On some 216 00:14:05,196 --> 00:14:08,996 Speaker 2: unconscious level. I think Howard and Roy were offended by this. 217 00:14:09,996 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 2: It was a slight People from Miami take particular umbrage 218 00:14:14,396 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 2: at the condescension of fancy lawyers from Boston with their 219 00:14:17,636 --> 00:14:22,916 Speaker 2: high falutint manner and Ivyley pedigrees. Thus the dramatic sidebar 220 00:14:23,316 --> 00:14:26,596 Speaker 2: when the stiletto that they had brandished during the Georgetown 221 00:14:26,596 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 2: massacre was inserted a little deeper. We have Catherine Coury, 222 00:14:32,596 --> 00:14:35,196 Speaker 2: the person you didn't think belonged to her, and we 223 00:14:35,276 --> 00:14:38,476 Speaker 2: have her text messages which you somehow didn't think were 224 00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:42,916 Speaker 2: going to be an issue. Then a long pause when 225 00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:47,516 Speaker 2: the news registers with the prosecution, a sharp intake of breath, 226 00:14:47,916 --> 00:15:10,236 Speaker 2: and a silent scream that echoes across the courtroom full 227 00:15:10,356 --> 00:15:14,196 Speaker 2: The direct examination of Katy Curry was conducted by Howard, 228 00:15:14,796 --> 00:15:18,396 Speaker 2: not by Roy, which makes sense. Roy is, as I've said, 229 00:15:18,756 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 2: an apex legal predator. You don't let the grizzly bear 230 00:15:22,516 --> 00:15:28,596 Speaker 2: play with your grandkids. This one was Howard's responsibility. Howard 231 00:15:28,956 --> 00:15:32,276 Speaker 2: is not just the intellectual half of Black Shrebnik. He 232 00:15:32,396 --> 00:15:35,276 Speaker 2: is the warm and fuzzy half. Howard is the one 233 00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:38,436 Speaker 2: most likely to dress as Santa at the Black Shrebnik 234 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:42,116 Speaker 2: Christmas Party. Howard has a daughter of his own, whom 235 00:15:42,236 --> 00:15:45,516 Speaker 2: I'm quite sure has Howard wrapped around her little finger. 236 00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:50,396 Speaker 2: Katy Curry was twenty five at the time, tall, long 237 00:15:50,436 --> 00:15:54,516 Speaker 2: brown hair, generous smile when she's smiling, but she's nervous 238 00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:57,556 Speaker 2: when she emerges from the bathroom. She clearly does not 239 00:15:57,676 --> 00:16:00,156 Speaker 2: want to be there. The adults in her life have 240 00:16:00,276 --> 00:16:02,076 Speaker 2: made a dreadful mess of things. 241 00:16:02,676 --> 00:16:05,356 Speaker 6: The momentum continued to build when the daughter gets on 242 00:16:05,396 --> 00:16:08,156 Speaker 6: the witness stand, the government having married itself to a 243 00:16:08,236 --> 00:16:11,716 Speaker 6: theory that a daughter was a fraud, essentially that her 244 00:16:11,756 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 6: application was a fraud. 245 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:18,476 Speaker 2: Howard starts quietly and calmly, tell us how old you are? 246 00:16:19,276 --> 00:16:22,596 Speaker 2: Easy questions to answer, where do you work? You went 247 00:16:22,636 --> 00:16:27,796 Speaker 2: to graduate school? Where only when she seems comfortable does 248 00:16:27,796 --> 00:16:30,396 Speaker 2: he get to the heart of the matter. Once again, 249 00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:33,716 Speaker 2: we've asked our voice actors to read from the transcript. 250 00:16:35,036 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: Okay, Catherine, growing up, did you play tennis? 251 00:16:40,076 --> 00:16:42,276 Speaker 5: I did yes, okay? 252 00:16:43,036 --> 00:16:44,556 Speaker 1: And who taught you how to play tennis? 253 00:16:45,556 --> 00:16:46,116 Speaker 5: My dad? 254 00:16:47,396 --> 00:16:50,196 Speaker 1: And how old were you when you learned to play tennis? 255 00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:54,676 Speaker 5: Oh, I want to say I was maybe about five 256 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:55,716 Speaker 5: six years old. 257 00:16:56,876 --> 00:17:00,116 Speaker 2: Her voice is soft. At one point, the judge tells 258 00:17:00,116 --> 00:17:01,196 Speaker 2: her to speak up. 259 00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:05,956 Speaker 1: Okay, And your dad, when you said you would play 260 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:08,716 Speaker 1: tennis with your dad, was it just hitting the balls 261 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 1: or was there anything more instructive about the relationship, the 262 00:17:12,436 --> 00:17:14,196 Speaker 1: tennis relationship with your dad? 263 00:17:16,236 --> 00:17:20,276 Speaker 5: Well, so, yeah, my dad is an amazing tennis player. 264 00:17:20,676 --> 00:17:23,756 Speaker 5: He did play at Brown and so I guess in 265 00:17:23,796 --> 00:17:26,956 Speaker 5: a way we had not only a father daughter relationship, 266 00:17:26,956 --> 00:17:29,596 Speaker 5: but in a lot of ways. He was my primary coach. 267 00:17:30,036 --> 00:17:32,636 Speaker 5: I mean he would help me with drills, techniques, my 268 00:17:32,756 --> 00:17:35,876 Speaker 5: serve which was the weakest part of my game, set 269 00:17:35,916 --> 00:17:39,196 Speaker 5: up cones around the tennis court, and try to boost 270 00:17:39,276 --> 00:17:43,636 Speaker 5: my tennis skills. So it was something he enjoyed and 271 00:17:44,636 --> 00:17:47,676 Speaker 5: also something he encouraged me to work hard on. 272 00:17:49,356 --> 00:17:51,836 Speaker 1: How passionate was he about playing tennis with you? 273 00:17:53,796 --> 00:17:57,116 Speaker 5: I think it was one of our favorite things we 274 00:17:57,156 --> 00:17:57,676 Speaker 5: did together. 275 00:17:58,356 --> 00:18:01,476 Speaker 2: Howard pauses and has one of his paralegals put up 276 00:18:01,516 --> 00:18:05,076 Speaker 2: a photo on the screen. It's Catherine and her father 277 00:18:05,596 --> 00:18:08,596 Speaker 2: side by side at the tennis court at their country club. 278 00:18:10,196 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 1: Of all the people on the planet Earth, who is 279 00:18:12,876 --> 00:18:16,076 Speaker 1: the person with whom you played most hours of tennis 280 00:18:16,116 --> 00:18:17,036 Speaker 1: in your lifetime? 281 00:18:18,116 --> 00:18:18,596 Speaker 5: My dad. 282 00:18:20,316 --> 00:18:23,116 Speaker 2: They talked about high school. She went to a very 283 00:18:23,116 --> 00:18:27,316 Speaker 2: small private school in Massachusetts. Eight players on the tennis team. 284 00:18:27,676 --> 00:18:31,556 Speaker 2: She was number six, mostly played doubles. Her grades were good, 285 00:18:31,916 --> 00:18:34,796 Speaker 2: not great. Then they get to the subject of college. 286 00:18:35,396 --> 00:18:39,596 Speaker 2: What did she want to go Boston College or Northeastern? 287 00:18:39,916 --> 00:18:43,076 Speaker 2: Did she think she would play tennis at those schools? No? 288 00:18:43,716 --> 00:18:48,076 Speaker 2: What about Georgetown? Well, she'd never thought about Georgetown until 289 00:18:48,116 --> 00:18:50,916 Speaker 2: she ran into Gordy Ernst at a July fourth party. 290 00:18:52,236 --> 00:18:56,076 Speaker 5: I mean he basically said, you know, I'm Gordy Ernst, 291 00:18:56,076 --> 00:18:58,396 Speaker 5: a friend of your dad's, and I'm a tennis coach 292 00:18:58,476 --> 00:19:02,156 Speaker 5: at Georgetown, and you know you should like have you 293 00:19:02,276 --> 00:19:05,876 Speaker 5: ever thought about playing tennis at Georgetown? It could be fun? 294 00:19:06,836 --> 00:19:07,756 Speaker 1: And what did you tell them? 295 00:19:08,716 --> 00:19:08,956 Speaker 4: Said? 296 00:19:09,236 --> 00:19:12,676 Speaker 5: Wow, that sounds amazing. No, we'd love that, but I 297 00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:15,556 Speaker 5: don't think I'm good enough. 298 00:19:16,116 --> 00:19:17,876 Speaker 1: And what did he say? 299 00:19:17,916 --> 00:19:21,436 Speaker 5: He said, Well, you know, train hard and maybe you could. 300 00:19:23,156 --> 00:19:25,796 Speaker 2: She began playing more tennis. She began to take her 301 00:19:25,796 --> 00:19:30,036 Speaker 2: tennis more seriously, she got excited. The idea was that 302 00:19:30,076 --> 00:19:32,596 Speaker 2: she would practice with the team, but red shirt for 303 00:19:32,596 --> 00:19:36,116 Speaker 2: a year. She got an acceptance letter from Georgetown. Howard 304 00:19:36,116 --> 00:19:38,396 Speaker 2: put it on the screen for all the court to see. 305 00:19:38,756 --> 00:19:41,316 Speaker 2: She was in. She thought it was all her doing, 306 00:19:41,596 --> 00:19:45,156 Speaker 2: her talent and hard work. The back and forth between 307 00:19:45,196 --> 00:19:50,316 Speaker 2: Howard and Catherine is building slowly. Everyone on the jury 308 00:19:50,596 --> 00:19:53,596 Speaker 2: must know something is about to happen, but they don't 309 00:19:53,636 --> 00:19:56,756 Speaker 2: know what it is. And Howard is in no hurry 310 00:19:56,796 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 2: to tell them. He's just content to let her talk 311 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:04,556 Speaker 2: and let her credibility, her authenticity, sink in. 312 00:20:05,796 --> 00:20:10,356 Speaker 1: And then finally, I want to talk to you now 313 00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:14,596 Speaker 1: about some of your family circumstances that arose in May 314 00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen, this after you've been accepted at Georgetown. 315 00:20:19,636 --> 00:20:25,316 Speaker 1: Do you know what time period I'm talking about? During 316 00:20:25,356 --> 00:20:27,756 Speaker 1: the months of April. In the first week of May, 317 00:20:27,876 --> 00:20:32,836 Speaker 1: your parents, Melanie and Amon, did you understand them to 318 00:20:32,996 --> 00:20:35,156 Speaker 1: be still married and living as a family. 319 00:20:36,716 --> 00:20:40,236 Speaker 5: I did until like the second week of May. 320 00:20:42,036 --> 00:20:44,116 Speaker 1: Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you 321 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:45,916 Speaker 1: learned in the second week of May. 322 00:20:48,196 --> 00:20:51,716 Speaker 5: So in the second week of May, I was actually 323 00:20:51,756 --> 00:20:54,356 Speaker 5: in a tennis match. I believe it was a match 324 00:20:54,396 --> 00:20:57,676 Speaker 5: and not a practice. My mom had flown from Florida 325 00:20:57,716 --> 00:21:01,436 Speaker 5: to Middlesex, which wasn't uncommon. She liked to visit us 326 00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:06,316 Speaker 5: a lot. But you know, I could tell that something was. 327 00:21:06,276 --> 00:21:10,076 Speaker 1: Wrong up until that moment moment in time, did you 328 00:21:10,156 --> 00:21:12,596 Speaker 1: have any idea that your parents were divorcing? 329 00:21:13,356 --> 00:21:13,436 Speaker 8: No? 330 00:21:13,956 --> 00:21:16,396 Speaker 1: How did it affect your feelings towards your father? 331 00:21:17,556 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 5: I was really very angry with him for that decision 332 00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:23,916 Speaker 5: to leave the marriage. 333 00:21:24,556 --> 00:21:26,876 Speaker 1: And how did you express yourself to your dad. 334 00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 5: With tears and anger and some mean words. I had 335 00:21:32,596 --> 00:21:35,596 Speaker 5: lost respect for him at that moment in time and 336 00:21:35,876 --> 00:21:40,356 Speaker 5: was Yeah, I felt I felt betrayed. 337 00:21:41,436 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: How was your mom handling it? 338 00:21:44,396 --> 00:21:47,036 Speaker 5: She was not handling it well at all. She was 339 00:21:47,356 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 5: you know, it broke her, for lack of a better word. 340 00:21:53,916 --> 00:21:56,716 Speaker 2: And then Howard puts the text messages Catherine said to 341 00:21:56,756 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 2: her dad up on a big screen for the whole 342 00:21:59,436 --> 00:22:00,756 Speaker 2: court to see. 343 00:22:01,036 --> 00:22:04,596 Speaker 1: I made tent you described your dad to directly to 344 00:22:04,716 --> 00:22:09,436 Speaker 1: him that he's pathetic, yes, and hoping there will be 345 00:22:09,436 --> 00:22:11,396 Speaker 1: a day when he'll be strong again. 346 00:22:12,636 --> 00:22:13,116 Speaker 5: Yeah. 347 00:22:14,196 --> 00:22:19,316 Speaker 1: Next page, Keith. This is two days later, on May twelfth, 348 00:22:19,316 --> 00:22:22,556 Speaker 1: you write to him. I wasn't the one who traded 349 00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:25,716 Speaker 1: our family for the feelings of being young again. You're 350 00:22:25,756 --> 00:22:30,316 Speaker 1: a grown man. Don't equate my actions with yours. Just 351 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:33,596 Speaker 1: from that statement, it's a parent how selfish you are? 352 00:22:35,836 --> 00:22:36,196 Speaker 5: Yes? 353 00:22:37,876 --> 00:22:39,276 Speaker 1: Is that how you felt at the time? 354 00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:39,876 Speaker 5: Yes? 355 00:22:40,956 --> 00:22:47,236 Speaker 1: Had you ever felt that way about your father before? No, Keith, 356 00:22:47,636 --> 00:22:50,396 Speaker 1: go to the next page. Do you recall your dad 357 00:22:50,436 --> 00:22:54,116 Speaker 1: trying to explain himself in you telling him you have 358 00:22:54,196 --> 00:23:01,836 Speaker 1: not done anything wrong? Lol? Laugh out loud. Yeah, next 359 00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:05,316 Speaker 1: page you tell your daddy's clueless and you have no 360 00:23:05,396 --> 00:23:11,676 Speaker 1: interest in associating with him. Is that right? It's correct, Keith. 361 00:23:11,676 --> 00:23:13,316 Speaker 1: If we could go to the next page. 362 00:23:13,956 --> 00:23:17,356 Speaker 2: At which point the judge interjects how many pages is this? 363 00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:23,956 Speaker 2: And Howard says fifteen more. The judge says fifteen more, Yes, 364 00:23:24,036 --> 00:23:29,436 Speaker 2: your honor, fifteen pages, and when it ends, Catherine Cory 365 00:23:29,476 --> 00:23:32,876 Speaker 2: explains where her anger left her. 366 00:23:33,396 --> 00:23:37,836 Speaker 5: Well, you know, Tennis was something that my dad and 367 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:42,676 Speaker 5: I shared. When I thought of Tennis, I thought of 368 00:23:42,716 --> 00:23:45,836 Speaker 5: my dad and I wanted nothing to do with him. 369 00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:51,876 Speaker 5: At that point, I was disgusted and hurt, and I 370 00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:56,876 Speaker 5: was basically like, you know, screw it. I feel like 371 00:23:56,956 --> 00:24:00,036 Speaker 5: you've ruined the sport for me. I think of you 372 00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:03,316 Speaker 5: when I'm out there, and I'm not going to follow. 373 00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:06,396 Speaker 5: You know, we keep on following your leads and everything 374 00:24:06,436 --> 00:24:09,796 Speaker 5: when you don't set good examples. To be honest, it 375 00:24:09,876 --> 00:24:14,596 Speaker 5: was just too painful to be out there with those reminders. 376 00:24:16,116 --> 00:24:19,556 Speaker 2: So when she got to Georgetown, she didn't join the 377 00:24:19,596 --> 00:24:24,196 Speaker 2: tennis team. She didn't play the sports she loved. And 378 00:24:24,236 --> 00:24:27,636 Speaker 2: it had nothing to do with her shoulder. It had 379 00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:28,476 Speaker 2: to do with her heart. 380 00:24:31,156 --> 00:24:35,116 Speaker 1: When was the last time you played competitive tennis? 381 00:24:35,396 --> 00:24:38,036 Speaker 5: May like right before? 382 00:24:39,836 --> 00:24:43,436 Speaker 1: And did you have you ever since played tennis? 383 00:24:44,996 --> 00:24:45,076 Speaker 4: Not? 384 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:49,516 Speaker 5: Really? Maybe one day I want to love the sport again, 385 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 5: you know, like I don't want to just I used 386 00:24:53,436 --> 00:24:57,236 Speaker 5: to love it. And you know, one day, when hopefully 387 00:24:57,236 --> 00:25:01,956 Speaker 5: we've found peace and a stable, you know, familial unit, 388 00:25:03,476 --> 00:25:06,916 Speaker 5: I will be able to be at peace with, you know, 389 00:25:07,196 --> 00:25:11,836 Speaker 5: playing the sport that reminds me of my dad, that 390 00:25:11,916 --> 00:25:14,836 Speaker 5: does hold so many good memories again. 391 00:25:18,556 --> 00:25:21,836 Speaker 2: The lawyers for the US Attorney's Office called Katie Coury 392 00:25:21,956 --> 00:25:27,476 Speaker 2: a mediocre tennis player when Georgetown's specialty was mediocre tennis players. 393 00:25:27,716 --> 00:25:30,796 Speaker 2: They said she got into Georgetown because her dad was rich, 394 00:25:31,236 --> 00:25:34,836 Speaker 2: but recruiting rich kids for the Georgetown tennis team was 395 00:25:34,876 --> 00:25:38,596 Speaker 2: what Georgetown did as a matter of course. And then 396 00:25:39,076 --> 00:25:42,276 Speaker 2: they threw her under the bus a third time. They 397 00:25:42,316 --> 00:25:44,996 Speaker 2: said that she had been involved in a conspiracy with 398 00:25:45,076 --> 00:25:52,116 Speaker 2: her father to fake an injury, and that just wasn't true. 399 00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:56,076 Speaker 2: Back at the top of episode one, I said that 400 00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:58,636 Speaker 2: I asked the US Attorney's office to talk to me 401 00:25:58,676 --> 00:26:02,556 Speaker 2: about the Coury case and they refused. Now I know 402 00:26:02,636 --> 00:26:06,436 Speaker 2: why because they went home and tried to wash their hands, 403 00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 2: and the stink wouldn't come off. Closing arguments in the 404 00:26:14,996 --> 00:26:19,556 Speaker 2: case of USB Coorry came the next day, Roy did 405 00:26:19,556 --> 00:26:20,716 Speaker 2: the honors for the defense. 406 00:26:21,196 --> 00:26:23,556 Speaker 4: I came up with this walking over to the courthouse, 407 00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 4: goes trying to figure out how to make these text 408 00:26:26,596 --> 00:26:30,796 Speaker 4: messages as dramatic as possible, And it doesn't come across 409 00:26:30,876 --> 00:26:33,716 Speaker 4: in the transcript. But what I did is I picked 410 00:26:33,796 --> 00:26:36,876 Speaker 4: up the exhibits and I walked over to the defense 411 00:26:37,036 --> 00:26:40,316 Speaker 4: table and stood in front of Corey and read every 412 00:26:40,356 --> 00:26:43,036 Speaker 4: one of those text messages, looking him in the eye. 413 00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:46,076 Speaker 2: I mean, the text was is Fronday's. 414 00:26:45,636 --> 00:26:49,196 Speaker 4: Daughter, Yeah, where she's calling him every name in the book, 415 00:26:49,236 --> 00:26:51,876 Speaker 4: and how I hate you and all this stuff and. 416 00:26:53,036 --> 00:26:54,276 Speaker 2: I'm and Coury as you did. 417 00:26:54,316 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 6: That was in tears. 418 00:26:55,156 --> 00:26:56,476 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, all of us. 419 00:26:57,596 --> 00:26:58,476 Speaker 1: So there's the jury. 420 00:26:58,676 --> 00:27:01,356 Speaker 4: Yeah, there, this is Roy Black. There's the jury. 421 00:27:01,436 --> 00:27:02,196 Speaker 1: There's the judge. 422 00:27:02,236 --> 00:27:04,796 Speaker 6: Corey is standing sitting right where you are. By the way, 423 00:27:04,836 --> 00:27:07,356 Speaker 6: my daughter was sitting right behind him and Corey. Sophie 424 00:27:07,356 --> 00:27:08,356 Speaker 6: was watching the trial. 425 00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:10,116 Speaker 4: And my son okay, and your son. 426 00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:13,836 Speaker 6: Yeah. And Roy who's talking to the jury. And it's 427 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:14,196 Speaker 6: right there. 428 00:27:14,196 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 9: We have the transcript and stands literally the distance four 429 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:20,396 Speaker 9: feet from Am and Corey, and he's reading to Am 430 00:27:20,436 --> 00:27:22,276 Speaker 9: and Corey and they're right here. You can read him 431 00:27:22,276 --> 00:27:25,316 Speaker 9: out loud into the micro into the tape each one 432 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:28,436 Speaker 9: of those texts. Roy stands up, Well. 433 00:27:28,316 --> 00:27:28,996 Speaker 6: Why don't you read it? 434 00:27:29,076 --> 00:27:29,276 Speaker 5: Roy? 435 00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:33,996 Speaker 6: This is the actual closing heartment quote. 436 00:27:34,156 --> 00:27:36,596 Speaker 4: The night of my graduation is supposed to be a 437 00:27:36,676 --> 00:27:40,036 Speaker 4: fun celebration. I don't think it will be of you. Come, 438 00:27:40,556 --> 00:27:43,556 Speaker 4: Lexi and I are not doing that well. I hope 439 00:27:43,556 --> 00:27:46,196 Speaker 4: that you know that your family won't be able to 440 00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:50,916 Speaker 4: exist peacefully together, and don't spend another holiday together. I 441 00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:55,476 Speaker 4: will forever blame and resent you and have zero interest 442 00:27:55,556 --> 00:27:59,476 Speaker 4: in sharing vital parts of my life with you. That's 443 00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:02,316 Speaker 4: what Katie Corey was saying in the summer of twenty fifteen, 444 00:28:02,436 --> 00:28:05,396 Speaker 4: not making up some story about her shoulder injury. 445 00:28:06,116 --> 00:28:10,436 Speaker 2: The courtroom is absolutely still, and rouyg just keeps going 446 00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:15,316 Speaker 2: right in front of his client, face to face. And 447 00:28:15,516 --> 00:28:18,996 Speaker 2: so what's happening, Well, the jurors were crying. 448 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:21,476 Speaker 6: But the jurorsy, you didn't see that, but we did. 449 00:28:22,796 --> 00:28:23,796 Speaker 1: There's a juror cry. 450 00:28:24,316 --> 00:28:28,116 Speaker 2: So there, So explain to me psychologically, what's happening with 451 00:28:28,156 --> 00:28:33,996 Speaker 2: the jerks there? What conclusion are they drawing from the 452 00:28:34,076 --> 00:28:35,316 Speaker 2: from the emotion in that moment. 453 00:28:36,756 --> 00:28:41,036 Speaker 4: Well, I think that they're all parents. Can you imagine 454 00:28:41,556 --> 00:28:45,596 Speaker 4: getting messages like that from one of your children about 455 00:28:45,636 --> 00:28:52,636 Speaker 4: how catastrophic, how tragic, how emotional that would be. And 456 00:28:52,716 --> 00:28:55,436 Speaker 4: the reason why I wanted to do that is to 457 00:28:55,516 --> 00:28:59,476 Speaker 4: show that there was simply no way that this girl 458 00:28:59,836 --> 00:29:03,276 Speaker 4: was being controlled by her father and would go and say, Okay, 459 00:29:03,876 --> 00:29:07,796 Speaker 4: we're now getting into Georgetown on this fake admission, and 460 00:29:07,836 --> 00:29:11,516 Speaker 4: I'm going to fake a a shoulder injury. It's just 461 00:29:11,596 --> 00:29:16,956 Speaker 4: that it was just such a powerful, tragic thing to 462 00:29:17,076 --> 00:29:18,276 Speaker 4: get from a child. 463 00:29:19,116 --> 00:29:21,556 Speaker 9: What I thought happened was it now became a contest 464 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:26,196 Speaker 9: between this prosecutor and Katie Kury, who was the jury 465 00:29:26,236 --> 00:29:26,836 Speaker 9: going to rule. 466 00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:32,156 Speaker 2: For Roy's closing argument didn't last very long. It didn't 467 00:29:32,196 --> 00:29:36,156 Speaker 2: have to. He just said, you know why the prosecution's 468 00:29:36,196 --> 00:29:39,196 Speaker 2: case makes no sense because they didn't know about the 469 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:45,036 Speaker 2: text messages. The jury acquitted Amonkury on all counts. They 470 00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:48,156 Speaker 2: couldn't distinguish between what Am and Curry did and what 471 00:29:48,236 --> 00:29:51,636 Speaker 2: Georgetown did. I think they must have wondered what they 472 00:29:51,636 --> 00:29:54,596 Speaker 2: had been dragged into a full on trial in a 473 00:29:54,636 --> 00:29:57,796 Speaker 2: federal courthouse that ended up being about a daughter's broken 474 00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:02,796 Speaker 2: heart and a father's tears. Oh and all taking place 475 00:30:03,356 --> 00:30:06,156 Speaker 2: on a tennis court, Which is the question that got 476 00:30:06,196 --> 00:30:08,956 Speaker 2: me interested in us v. Koury in the first place. 477 00:30:09,476 --> 00:30:11,636 Speaker 2: The other half of the case, the half I write 478 00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:14,596 Speaker 2: about in Revenge of the Tipping Point. Since when do 479 00:30:14,676 --> 00:30:18,116 Speaker 2: we care so much about games like tennis that prosecutors 480 00:30:18,236 --> 00:30:21,716 Speaker 2: and elite universities and rich men and their daughters make 481 00:30:21,756 --> 00:30:24,036 Speaker 2: at the staging ground for their ambitions. 482 00:30:25,516 --> 00:30:27,956 Speaker 9: By the way, one more moment that no one knows 483 00:30:27,996 --> 00:30:30,796 Speaker 9: about because we were there and it didn't. 484 00:30:30,596 --> 00:30:31,436 Speaker 1: Happen in the courtroom. 485 00:30:31,636 --> 00:30:36,356 Speaker 6: We walk out of the courtroom with a not guilty verdict. 486 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:40,316 Speaker 6: We encounter some of the jurors right outside the courtroom. 487 00:30:41,916 --> 00:30:43,556 Speaker 9: Aim and Corey is standing next to me. 488 00:30:44,476 --> 00:30:48,476 Speaker 6: The juror is standing five feet away. She looks over 489 00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:52,316 Speaker 6: to mister Corey and she says, take care of your daughter. 490 00:30:57,516 --> 00:31:01,596 Speaker 2: Vision's history is producad. Wait, we're not done. What about 491 00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:05,276 Speaker 2: the mysterious Salesforce document? The document Roy kept trying to 492 00:31:05,276 --> 00:31:09,436 Speaker 2: get Georgetown witnesses to say, yes it exists or yes 493 00:31:09,796 --> 00:31:11,796 Speaker 2: it's real. What was it? 494 00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:13,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, Salesforce. 495 00:31:13,796 --> 00:31:19,716 Speaker 7: They kept the database where people were and they have 496 00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:24,356 Speaker 7: like they had like targets. So if this person is 497 00:31:24,396 --> 00:31:26,756 Speaker 7: worth this amount of money, my target is to get 498 00:31:26,756 --> 00:31:29,956 Speaker 7: them to donate this amount, And they would keep track 499 00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:32,876 Speaker 7: of contact with the family and what they're going to 500 00:31:32,956 --> 00:31:35,836 Speaker 7: ask for it, And they kept us in a database 501 00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:41,876 Speaker 7: internally in a Salesforce database at the school for each parent. 502 00:31:43,676 --> 00:31:47,716 Speaker 2: It uses a sophisticated set of software to analyze thousands 503 00:31:47,716 --> 00:31:51,036 Speaker 2: of people and figure out who among them is the 504 00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:54,596 Speaker 2: best target for a fundraising call and what that person's 505 00:31:55,036 --> 00:31:58,876 Speaker 2: and this is the term that is used, capacity might be. 506 00:32:00,196 --> 00:32:03,156 Speaker 2: It looks at patterns. Families that have given a lot 507 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:05,236 Speaker 2: tend to be those who will continue to give a lot. 508 00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:09,076 Speaker 2: Then there's a question of the individual's ties to the institute. 509 00:32:09,916 --> 00:32:12,116 Speaker 2: Do they have a child at school there that helps 510 00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:14,836 Speaker 2: a lot, or if they are an alarm what did 511 00:32:14,876 --> 00:32:18,316 Speaker 2: they do while on campus. Turns out a connection to 512 00:32:18,516 --> 00:32:24,756 Speaker 2: athletics is a top indicator for future giving. Needless to say, 513 00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:29,116 Speaker 2: this kind of algorithm would really really like aim and Kouri. 514 00:32:30,396 --> 00:32:33,876 Speaker 2: After Catherine was admitted, before she had even set foot 515 00:32:33,916 --> 00:32:38,076 Speaker 2: on campus, the admissions officer who handled her application sent 516 00:32:38,156 --> 00:32:41,316 Speaker 2: an email to someone in the development office, are you 517 00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:44,916 Speaker 2: able to give me giving for aim and Kuri? Meaning 518 00:32:45,516 --> 00:32:48,676 Speaker 2: can we run him through the algorithm? And they do 519 00:32:49,436 --> 00:32:53,876 Speaker 2: and put it all in an internal document. Why was 520 00:32:53,916 --> 00:32:57,236 Speaker 2: Georgetown so reluctant to admit to the existence of the 521 00:32:57,276 --> 00:33:03,196 Speaker 2: mysterious salesforce capacity report because their capacity estimate for the 522 00:33:03,236 --> 00:33:10,156 Speaker 2: Kouri family was, shall we say awkward, one to five 523 00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:16,716 Speaker 2: million dollars. When the so called victim Georgetown is landing 524 00:33:16,796 --> 00:33:19,796 Speaker 2: up the so called perpetrator for one to five million. 525 00:33:20,516 --> 00:33:23,316 Speaker 2: The victim doesn't really look like a victim anymore, do they. 526 00:33:24,196 --> 00:33:26,916 Speaker 2: It looks more like they're in on the grift. 527 00:33:27,116 --> 00:33:29,996 Speaker 4: So yeah, they were. They nobody would agree to it, 528 00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:32,996 Speaker 4: so we mentioned that the jury, the jury knew it 529 00:33:33,076 --> 00:33:35,036 Speaker 4: existed but never got to see it. 530 00:33:35,316 --> 00:33:39,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, so for you, you you saw you did you 531 00:33:39,636 --> 00:33:40,396 Speaker 2: have the doctor? 532 00:33:40,516 --> 00:33:41,716 Speaker 4: Yes, we have the document. 533 00:33:41,836 --> 00:33:46,116 Speaker 7: Then after the trial there's the not guilty verdict, and 534 00:33:46,236 --> 00:33:49,356 Speaker 7: that night or the next day, the New York Times 535 00:33:49,516 --> 00:33:53,036 Speaker 7: or somebody calls Roy for a comment and Roy comments 536 00:33:53,076 --> 00:33:55,956 Speaker 7: on the trial, and in part the comment was, there 537 00:33:56,036 --> 00:33:59,036 Speaker 7: was this Salesforce document and the target for the corries 538 00:33:59,116 --> 00:34:02,796 Speaker 7: was one to five million. And now Georgetown, who during 539 00:34:02,836 --> 00:34:05,996 Speaker 7: the trial, is saying, I don't know what document you're 540 00:34:06,036 --> 00:34:10,036 Speaker 7: talking about, and no witness will own to the document, 541 00:34:10,076 --> 00:34:13,316 Speaker 7: and no witness is prepared to testify about it. After 542 00:34:13,476 --> 00:34:14,236 Speaker 7: Roy makes the. 543 00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:18,036 Speaker 3: Comments, the lawyers for Georgetown send an email saying, hey, 544 00:34:18,156 --> 00:34:21,116 Speaker 3: why are you talking about our Salesforce document? There's a 545 00:34:21,156 --> 00:34:23,676 Speaker 3: confidentiality order in the case and you're not supposed to 546 00:34:23,716 --> 00:34:26,316 Speaker 3: be talking about our documents and rites. 547 00:34:28,036 --> 00:34:32,116 Speaker 8: So at the trial nobody's owning the document. After the trial, 548 00:34:32,116 --> 00:34:35,156 Speaker 8: they're all upset that Roy's talking about their document. Roy 549 00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:40,316 Speaker 8: writes back, I mentioned it an opening, and can I 550 00:34:40,556 --> 00:34:44,356 Speaker 8: And he writes back to the group in capital letters, 551 00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:48,756 Speaker 8: sore loser, to the lawyer. 552 00:34:48,436 --> 00:34:51,196 Speaker 7: To the Georgetown lawyer, Oh my god, when we all 553 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:54,116 Speaker 7: got that email. I was like bagging the desk. 554 00:34:54,196 --> 00:34:55,076 Speaker 6: That's hard. 555 00:34:55,796 --> 00:35:08,236 Speaker 2: It was awesome. Usv. Courry, best trial ever or maybe 556 00:35:09,116 --> 00:35:12,676 Speaker 2: second best trial ever, because there was another federal case 557 00:35:12,836 --> 00:35:15,236 Speaker 2: that I fell in love with while writing my book, 558 00:35:15,396 --> 00:35:18,356 Speaker 2: Revenge at Sipping Point. It's the basis for the chapter 559 00:35:18,556 --> 00:35:24,476 Speaker 2: entitled The Trouble with Miami usb s Forms, involving a 560 00:35:24,516 --> 00:35:28,196 Speaker 2: shadowy nursing home operator from Miami Beach who looked like 561 00:35:28,236 --> 00:35:31,036 Speaker 2: Paul Newman, drove around town in a one point six 562 00:35:31,076 --> 00:35:36,076 Speaker 2: million dollar Ferrari, dated supermodels, and in a weird coincidence, 563 00:35:36,716 --> 00:35:39,716 Speaker 2: was so obsessed with getting his diminutive son onto the 564 00:35:39,796 --> 00:35:43,316 Speaker 2: University of Penn basketball team that he gave large amounts 565 00:35:43,356 --> 00:35:46,996 Speaker 2: of cash in a gym bag to the Penn basketball 566 00:35:47,036 --> 00:35:52,196 Speaker 2: coach who represented that shadowy Paul Newman look alike in 567 00:35:52,236 --> 00:35:55,676 Speaker 2: a Ferrari handing out bags of cash to IVY League coaches. 568 00:35:57,596 --> 00:35:58,276 Speaker 1: Ten guesses. 569 00:36:07,156 --> 00:36:10,036 Speaker 2: Regional's history is produced by Nina Birdlanrance with Ben at A. F. 570 00:36:10,116 --> 00:36:15,036 Speaker 2: Haffrey and Lucy Sullivan. Our editor is Karen Schakerji. Fact 571 00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:19,596 Speaker 2: checking by Sam Russick, original scoring by Luis Guerra, Mastering 572 00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:23,556 Speaker 2: by Eco Mountain engineering by Sarah Buguer and Nina Bird Lawrence. 573 00:36:24,036 --> 00:36:28,796 Speaker 2: Production support from Luke LeMond, Voice acting by Dak Sheppard 574 00:36:28,876 --> 00:36:33,476 Speaker 2: and Britt Marling. Thank you, guys. Our executive producer is 575 00:36:33,796 --> 00:36:39,716 Speaker 2: the incomparable Jacob Smith. Special thanks to Sarah Nix. I'm 576 00:36:39,716 --> 00:36:40,476 Speaker 2: Malcolm Bobwell.