Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Term Keene Jay Ley.
Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg Let's
Speaker 1: bring it. David Kelly Showery, JP Morgan, Asset Management, Chief
Speaker 1: Global Strategists. So, David, help us understand two things. Near
Speaker 1: term outlook darkening, long term out look, medium turn out
Speaker 1: look getting brighter. How do you navigate those two things
Speaker 1: at the moment. One of the advantages of being a
Speaker 1: bear is you can always hybridate. I think a lot
Speaker 1: a lot of people would like to hibernate through the
Speaker 1: next few months because it is going to be pretty rough. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there's you can look at those case cans.
Speaker 1: You know how this is going to play out. It's
Speaker 1: going to be difficult for the economy, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: very difficult for people's lives, and I could we think
Speaker 1: that growth in the US has to show down to
Speaker 1: about three growth if that, over the next quarter or two.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, you know, the vaccine news is good news, um,
Speaker 1: And we do if we're passed. I think the election,
Speaker 1: uncertainty in reality or whatever, you know, maybe going on
Speaker 1: to Washington right now. Um, And I do think the
Speaker 1: vaccine is going to make a big difference, because the
Speaker 1: difference between a you know, a vaccine that six effective
Speaker 1: and nine percent effective is is it's a big difference
Speaker 1: because a meaning revenge you would be able to squash
Speaker 1: this thing. Um. So we do think the growth will
Speaker 1: pick up a lot in the second half of the
Speaker 1: next year as people get back to normal and people
Speaker 1: start doing all the things they haven't been able to
Speaker 1: do for a year and a half. So we do
Speaker 1: see a certain today, but we do have to go
Speaker 1: through a pretty rough time for the economy and for
Speaker 1: society between now and then. David, David help us with
Speaker 1: the application of when strategies shift and go bullish. We
Speaker 1: saw there some Golden Sex David, you may be familiar
Speaker 1: with them as a small bank downtown. And also JP
Speaker 1: Morgan again shifting to a or more bullish tact as well.
Speaker 1: How does your world change when it's team at JP
Speaker 1: Morgan gets quote unquote more bullish? Likely, sa Bramo wits, well,
Speaker 1: we obviously we're trying to do the research ourselves. We're
Speaker 1: trying not to be influenced by by other teams. But
Speaker 1: there's a there is a logic to this thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you know stocks, you know even long term bonds
Speaker 1: are very long term investments. So you've got to look
Speaker 1: past the next six months, and very often the best
Speaker 1: way to make money in the long run is to
Speaker 1: basically to fade whatever emotion is in the market at
Speaker 1: the time. So, yes, we've got this rising case content.
Speaker 1: It's it's dreadful from from many perspectives, but you've just
Speaker 1: got to look beyond that. I think the other thing
Speaker 1: that that's very important for for world markets in general
Speaker 1: is with the new administration, I think you're gonna have
Speaker 1: more certainty on trade. I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons the dollar is going down um. But also a
Speaker 1: folding dollar is advantageous for a lot of reasons. I
Speaker 1: think it will help out emerging markets. I think it
Speaker 1: will help US investors with UM with you foreign investments,
Speaker 1: it will, it should help SMP pipeund that, and then
Speaker 1: a divided government means you don't necessarily get an increase
Speaker 1: in corporate taxes. To put all this together, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of reasons to be optimistic once you can get past
Speaker 1: this pandemic. David, you said fade the emotion in markets,
Speaker 1: A fascinating turn of phrase at a time when the
Speaker 1: motion that we have seen, at least so far this
Speaker 1: week until today has been borderline euphoric. So are you
Speaker 1: fading the hope that they are having next year or
Speaker 1: do you think that we still have some pessimists and
Speaker 1: baked into markets where they are now. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't mean that. I mean they fade the emotion that
Speaker 1: that's bubbling up in society and will bubble up over
Speaker 1: the next week ahead. I you know, these case cants
Speaker 1: are rising very very rapidly. So you know, if if
Speaker 1: if it keeps on the same trajectory, within a week,
Speaker 1: people are going to be talking about nothing but the
Speaker 1: you know, the misery that COVID is inflicting upon us,
Speaker 1: and talking about shutdowns and lockdowns and businesses in trouble.
Speaker 1: So the I'm not necessarily talking about the emotion of
Speaker 1: the last week and sort of the weirdness after the election.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about what's just ahead of us here. I
Speaker 1: think people should not overplay that. I think they should
Speaker 1: recognize that there is light at the end of the tunnel,
Speaker 1: even though the tunnel itself right now is getting darker. Whatever.
Speaker 1: It keeps coming back to the same question we've asked
Speaker 1: repeatedly in the last couple of days about this how
Speaker 1: much bad news is this market willing to ignore? Just
Speaker 1: how much? Well? The problem? The problem is it's it's
Speaker 1: we've got this, this market which is being supported by
Speaker 1: these very easy central banks. Um, there is nowhere else
Speaker 1: to go. There's a lot of liquidity, and that's really
Speaker 1: what's supporting this market. I think the market can probably
Speaker 1: look through a fair amount of that. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's until there's something that's going to pull money away
Speaker 1: from upper income individuals and institutions that can that can
Speaker 1: put this money to work. There's money that needs to
Speaker 1: go to work. Where is it going to go to work? Um?
Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, longer term, as uncertainty fades,
Speaker 1: you want to really look at valuations more than momentum.
Speaker 1: So we've got a lot of momentum and megacap growth stocks.
Speaker 1: That's kind of been the continuing trade of But I
Speaker 1: think as uncertainty diminishes, as you get back to more
Speaker 1: normal economy and particularly if you get a correction at
Speaker 1: some stage, then people are going to focus more on valuations,
Speaker 1: and valuations look a lot better in US value stocks
Speaker 1: and in e M and developed country international stocks than
Speaker 1: they do in the S and P five handed overall,
Speaker 1: and particularly in megacap growth stocks, Mega Camp growth. Right
Speaker 1: now bit NaSTA film at David Grants to catch up
Speaker 1: with you, David Kelly, that of JP Mulgan Asset Management,
Speaker 1: thank you, And right now Albert co of Yale University
Speaker 1: to say he is a professor of epidemiology barely describes
Speaker 1: his focus on the heart of the matter right now,
Speaker 1: which is transmission dynamics. He is world class in this
Speaker 1: and we're thrilled he could join us this morning. Dr Co,
Speaker 1: Are you smarter about the transmission dynamics of this virus
Speaker 1: than you were in April? So so, Tom, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for the invitation. And uh and with respect
Speaker 1: with whether we're smarter, I'm not sure if that's the
Speaker 1: best way to describe it. Were we learned more much
Speaker 1: more about how this virus transmits, who it transmits, and
Speaker 1: where it transmits. I think what we're not necessarily smarter
Speaker 1: is is learning the lessons and translating that that knowledge
Speaker 1: of evidence to policy. Well, okay, in the policy, but
Speaker 1: we have a policy void. Can we wait until January
Speaker 1: or please call it from the urgency of policy right
Speaker 1: now in the final days of the Trump administration. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so Tom, we're at a critical moment right now. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we can't wait until the January for effective action.
Speaker 1: We're on the ex meddential curve of growth of cases,
Speaker 1: not only in new places where the viruses has spread
Speaker 1: in the United States, but also old places. For example
Speaker 1: here in the northeast of Connecticut, northeast of the country.
Speaker 1: We were hit hard in the early part of the epidemic,
Speaker 1: and now we're having a resurgence at this moment, I
Speaker 1: felt that to find exponential for us if you can
Speaker 1: with the numbers that you're sink currently, and whether what
Speaker 1: you're saying is once you reach that kind of right
Speaker 1: of change, the inevitably the only way to handle this
Speaker 1: is to lock back down. Again, is that what you're implying.
Speaker 1: So so I'll take the first part and what we
Speaker 1: were doing in by expensional curve. So, this is a
Speaker 1: virus that propagates by person or person in contact. So
Speaker 1: if you have one person in it it um transmits
Speaker 1: to two people, those two people transmit to four people,
Speaker 1: those four people up to sixteen people. And that's that
Speaker 1: what we call the exponential curve. When there's that uncontrolled
Speaker 1: transmission and people are are we're undergoing doubling rates um
Speaker 1: the whether what the response to that is is actually
Speaker 1: to do several things, and we know the evidence and
Speaker 1: we've learned this in the last ten months of this epidemic.
Speaker 1: What is face matchs, you know, what we call barrier
Speaker 1: reduction or barrier interventions to prevent people from from being
Speaker 1: exposed to the virus. The other is to decrease the
Speaker 1: social contact rate. Now that doesn't necessarily need lockdown, but
Speaker 1: when the cats out of the bag or when we
Speaker 1: have a wildfire, this extensional growth lockdown as we've seen
Speaker 1: back in the early stages of the epidemic is a
Speaker 1: is one, you know, one of the effective interventions dr CO.
Speaker 1: When we talk about what types of interventions are necessary,
Speaker 1: I feel like we have to revisit how contagious the
Speaker 1: disease is and the main methods of transmission. There are
Speaker 1: some questions about whether it's effective to close bars and
Speaker 1: restaurants at ten pm whether that actually does anything, whether
Speaker 1: the surface transmission mechanism is a substantial one or not.
Speaker 1: What do we know so far about the main modes
Speaker 1: of transmission other than people looking at each other for
Speaker 1: more than fifteen minutes and speaking and singing at each other. Right,
Speaker 1: so we know that person or person contact is essential
Speaker 1: and it drives this uh, drives transmission. I think you
Speaker 1: can break it down into three parts. One is the
Speaker 1: transmission through respiratory droplets. These are larger droplets that travel
Speaker 1: roughly six ft um uh and and really that type
Speaker 1: of transmissions fueled by close contact physical contact. The second
Speaker 1: is through what we call famites or person coughing or
Speaker 1: sneezing onto our surface. Uh. And then the third is
Speaker 1: the aerosols. Uh. These are smaller droplets that travel much further.
Speaker 1: But but what we know now we don't actually have
Speaker 1: the exact figures, but the large majority of transmission is
Speaker 1: actually fueled by the kind of close contact through through
Speaker 1: respiratory droplets within six ft. And that's good news in
Speaker 1: the sense that we know how to kind of we
Speaker 1: know how to address that. It's use of face masks
Speaker 1: and to maintaining physical physical distance distancing in that scenario.
Speaker 1: Dr Coe solid Or Brazil is a thousand miles or
Speaker 1: so north of Rio. You've had a huge commitment there
Speaker 1: to their medicine, their micro biology. I say this with
Speaker 1: great respect and nothing to demean the Brazilian government. Do
Speaker 1: you trust the statistics out of Brazil, out of South
Speaker 1: America and out of Mexico. Yeah, so, I think you know.
Speaker 1: The key issue with surveillance and the numbers and getting
Speaker 1: reliable numbers. And this is an issue here in the
Speaker 1: United States is round powder round public testing. Being able
Speaker 1: to test people who are symptomatic with the disease and
Speaker 1: to test the vulnerable populations and those UH in those settings.
Speaker 1: This is purely a challenge here in the United States,
Speaker 1: even in our own vulnerable communities, but this is a
Speaker 1: challenge throughout poorer countries and developing countries and even richer
Speaker 1: countries among that group, such as such as Brazil. UH.
Speaker 1: Certainly there are two key issues. One is you know,
Speaker 1: which is key, and is the government uh investment in
Speaker 1: the response. And we've seen the of the foiables and
Speaker 1: the problems that Brazil that had due to political concerns
Speaker 1: in the last uh you know, last ten eight to
Speaker 1: ten months. Uh. The other is is that you know,
Speaker 1: there are places in Brazil which we're doing extensive testing,
Speaker 1: places like some polo in uh In, many of the
Speaker 1: state's buildings, Auch City, or build Auch in the city
Speaker 1: that I work in Salvador. They're doing quite a bit
Speaker 1: of testing. So numbers are going to change based on
Speaker 1: where you are within a country. But the numbers, actually,
Speaker 1: I think what's more important than the absolute number is
Speaker 1: the trends and where they're going through. Many of these
Speaker 1: places are either going up or they're staying the same.
Speaker 1: Don't to appreciate your time this morning, Thanks for being
Speaker 1: with us, Come back soon. Why don't you don't to
Speaker 1: wrap a cord that of university right, albeit a kur
Speaker 1: joints us to Bernstein maybe Bernstein Co. Ahead of investment strategies.
Speaker 1: Do we sort of laid out the present land here?
Speaker 1: How do you write for March of two thousand twenty
Speaker 1: one or investment out all through two thousand twenty one. Well,
Speaker 1: we think about a continuation of the same forces that
Speaker 1: the market has been reckoning with this calendar year, which
Speaker 1: is of course the challenge of COVID, which is ongoing
Speaker 1: and escalating. As you've been discussing. But the offsetting force
Speaker 1: is the fiscal support and monetary support that's providing tremendous
Speaker 1: momentum and liquidity to the market. And I think what
Speaker 1: you've seen over the course of the last week is
Speaker 1: really a recognition that so many people were waiting for
Speaker 1: event risk around the election and have re engaged with
Speaker 1: the market as there is more clarity around that policy.
Speaker 1: So I think we have to wrestle with those two forces, Peter.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people also thinking about whether
Speaker 1: we would have some regime change on the policy side,
Speaker 1: away from a monthy policy regime towards a fiscal policy regime.
Speaker 1: And understand we've had a mix of both, but I
Speaker 1: do wonder for you WHI you're sitting right now what
Speaker 1: regime are we in at the moment on the policy
Speaker 1: from We're in a regime that's been coordinated, and what
Speaker 1: we saw in the first quarter was an incredible response,
Speaker 1: both in terms of speed and magnitude, and that is
Speaker 1: ultimately what gave markets the comfort to start that steady
Speaker 1: march upward and then over the summer. It's been frustrating
Speaker 1: to not see that second round of fiscal stimulus be passed,
Speaker 1: we really think the economy and ultimately the markets will
Speaker 1: be looking for direction around fiscal stimulus, a much smaller
Speaker 1: stimulus package than what would have occurred under the consensus
Speaker 1: views going into the election of a blue wave. But nonetheless,
Speaker 1: we do think you'll see in the numbers today that
Speaker 1: there's still a tremendous number of people looking for work
Speaker 1: out of work that need help, and especially as COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen ramps up pretty relentlessly, we think that fiscal stimulus
Speaker 1: is going to be critical. While the numbers are ugally
Speaker 1: in the United States and the prospect of they see
Speaker 1: doing more as diminished considerably out of the aus compliments
Speaker 1: as you've described, What are the capital aizication consequences of
Speaker 1: that for you right now as you look into your
Speaker 1: rend Yeah, well, I'm coming to you here from Chicago, Illinois,
Speaker 1: where we're the one state in the Union right now
Speaker 1: that doesn't even allow indoor dining, to give you a
Speaker 1: sense of the escalation and the potential for ongoing shutdowns
Speaker 1: and lockdowns. So we do see the vulnerability of the
Speaker 1: economy to ongoing stress from lockdowns. That being said, we
Speaker 1: are long term bullish, and in fact, we went into
Speaker 1: September and the election, slightly overweight equities. That has been
Speaker 1: the right call, and we have trimmed that back of
Speaker 1: a little bit, but ultimately maintaining that position because we
Speaker 1: see vaccine optimism and earnings recoveries that are substantial in
Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty one, so be able let's build
Speaker 1: on that. Is there an idea then that the virus
Speaker 1: counts and all of the high frequency data that people
Speaker 1: were pouring over earlier this year, but none of that
Speaker 1: matters right now. If you've got a longer term you well,
Speaker 1: we don't think none of it matters. If you think
Speaker 1: about what happened in the spring, the market was really
Speaker 1: focused on a national healthcare crisis and the inability of
Speaker 1: the system to manage the virus. And what we've learned
Speaker 1: today and you've had a prior guests this morning actually
Speaker 1: addressing this is better treatment, ultimately lower fatality rates, and
Speaker 1: more targeted economic impact from more localized shutdowns. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what the market is effectively expecting. But again
Speaker 1: we come back to the fact that we do think
Speaker 1: fiscal stimulus is necessary in some form. The sooner the better,
Speaker 1: but the odds of it happening this year are being
Speaker 1: reduced as we speak. He always fought a lot of
Speaker 1: math into this, and I love your phrase, the mathiness
Speaker 1: of the phrase. The idiosyncretic drivers discussed that what's the
Speaker 1: new idiosyncratic driver. Well, in our opinion, as active investment
Speaker 1: managers for over fifty years, it burns. What it means
Speaker 1: is that being an index investor or simply investing in
Speaker 1: sectors today is not enough. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: underlying company fundamentals that you have to look at very specifically.
Speaker 1: We know that we're in a year where growth has
Speaker 1: led in an extraordinary way, but even within the growth
Speaker 1: style um there's growth at a reasonable price, and then
Speaker 1: there's simply momentum growth. And the valuation differences are huge.
Speaker 1: And you could say the same thing about value in
Speaker 1: terms of cyclicals and financials versus energy. So you have
Speaker 1: to look at the company, it's balance sheet, it's management team. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: we're focused on buying enduring businesses and in the end
Speaker 1: we think that focus on stock selection will prevail. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about that and let's finish there. Just give
Speaker 1: us an idea of how you do that. Early this week,
Speaker 1: when the positive news around the vaccine came out the
Speaker 1: likes of AMC get bits up aggressively. I want to
Speaker 1: understand the difference between a company that just places the
Speaker 1: catch up write on a bit of opium on a
Speaker 1: Monday morning into Tuesday, and something more durable through the
Speaker 1: recovery that you anticipate. Well, I leave that hard work
Speaker 1: to our research analysts and our portfolio managers, who are
Speaker 1: responsible for ultimately kicking the tires with the management teams.
Speaker 1: But I can tell you that what our pms have
Speaker 1: been doing over the last couple of weeks is picking
Speaker 1: up a little bit more in the cyclical space. But
Speaker 1: to give you an example, even within technology, for example,
Speaker 1: focused on semiconductors, an area that we think will continue
Speaker 1: to benefit from the stay at home economy, but ultimately
Speaker 1: support that reversal to going back to normal, picking up
Speaker 1: a little bit more in the transportation sector, as well
Speaker 1: as some of the most beaten down names in consumer
Speaker 1: discretionary and travel and leisure. So uh, that is how
Speaker 1: we're thinking about positioning today. A bit of case. Thank
Speaker 1: you always, great to catch up. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: If I b Bernstein there on this market. I have
Speaker 1: anticipated this interview since I spoke to James Travitas a
Speaker 1: number of days ago. General Mark Kimmitt is the rarest
Speaker 1: of rare, someone with a distinguished military career who's dovetailed
Speaker 1: it was State Department experience. We're thrilled at General Mark
Speaker 1: Kimmitt could join us right now. General Kimmitt, the name
Speaker 1: Bler right now is off the chart. We have a
Speaker 1: general here, We've got a colonel there. We've got a
Speaker 1: list of slot can out of Michigan with their Defense
Speaker 1: Department experience and all of its name in this cacophony
Speaker 1: comes down to one thing. How is the Pentagon doing?
Speaker 1: What is your feeling of how the Pentagon is doing
Speaker 1: in this immediate turmoil. Look, I think the uniform services
Speaker 1: are doing just fine. As Admiral Steverta said, you can
Speaker 1: be sure that Mark Milly has got the rudder in
Speaker 1: the boat, moving them straight, uh and in the right direction.
Speaker 1: I am all concerned about what's going on in my
Speaker 1: old policy shop in the Pentagon and the intel shop
Speaker 1: and the Secretary Defense. Something doesn't click here. What is
Speaker 1: the price or the good or the negative of an
Speaker 1: Afghanistan exit? Clearly the zeitgeist, as the President desires that
Speaker 1: we hear a silence from the military. Give us the
Speaker 1: calculus if we were to exit Afghanistan. Well, on that
Speaker 1: particular itch with Afghanistan, Zal Holizade is doing some great negotiations,
Speaker 1: but he's negotiated with the Taliban. The fact remains, as
Speaker 1: we are coming to an agreement where the Taliban say
Speaker 1: you leave, will take care of al Qaeda. We know
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen in the United States of
Speaker 1: saying if you take care of al Qaeda, will leave,
Speaker 1: and that's not going to happen. I mean, if there
Speaker 1: is an al Qaeda threat or any other isis thread
Speaker 1: inside of Afghanistan, we will come back in. It may
Speaker 1: be from the air, it maybe with like special operations units.
Speaker 1: But the fact remains is we are not going to
Speaker 1: allow Afghanistan to remain and become again a safe haven
Speaker 1: for terrorists. So this kabuki about pulling all the American
Speaker 1: troops out, We'll pull the ones that are sitting around
Speaker 1: the base is not doing much. But the ones that
Speaker 1: we need to have there to work with the Afghan
Speaker 1: national security forces and in counter terrorist operations. I'm not
Speaker 1: worried about that. Under the revolution that was Goldwater Nickels
Speaker 1: really the last act of Senator Goldwater to create a
Speaker 1: real structure and separation of our military. How confident are
Speaker 1: you that the military can operate over the next sixty
Speaker 1: nine days. I'm not the slightest that worried about that.
Speaker 1: I mean, Goldwater Nichols was a result of the clown
Speaker 1: college that we called Grenada, where you had every service
Speaker 1: doing their own thing. Since then, since eighties six and
Speaker 1: Goldwater Nickels, it's a very smooth running military set up,
Speaker 1: going from the President to the Secretary Defense down to
Speaker 1: the combatant commanders. Uh, that's not where I'm worried about
Speaker 1: right now. It's from the combatant commanders through the Secretary
Speaker 1: Defense and up where I have some concerns. All right,
Speaker 1: can you elaborate, General on your concerns with the practical
Speaker 1: implications of some of the turnover. Maybe, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: concerned about the practical implications. I'm concerned about the people.
Speaker 1: I think. You take a look at the record of
Speaker 1: Tony Tayta, Doug McGregor, Ezra Cohen Watkins, Stephen Miller. I
Speaker 1: don't know the Secretary Defense, but these are guys that
Speaker 1: have a great military background, but it seems their greatest
Speaker 1: qualification for joining the policy shop is that they appeared
Speaker 1: on Fox News on a repeated basis, probably echoing back
Speaker 1: to President Trump what he wanted to hear. Does this
Speaker 1: have I media implications or long term implications in terms
Speaker 1: of a greater politicist as its politicization of the entire
Speaker 1: military forces. That's not going to happen. I mean, Mark
Speaker 1: Milly and the team will resign before they have become
Speaker 1: political bozos. What I am concerned is I have and
Speaker 1: this is purely speculative. I've got this sneaking suspicion that
Speaker 1: something's going on here in terms of why these people
Speaker 1: were brought in, and I think it's far more than
Speaker 1: just Afghanistan. These are people with a deep loyalty to
Speaker 1: a president, a president who has sixty days left in
Speaker 1: unfinished business, and I'm just hoping that the Secretary of
Speaker 1: Defense is not going to give actions in orders to
Speaker 1: the military in the next sixty days that are going
Speaker 1: to haunt us for a while. You have a great
Speaker 1: experience with Colonel McGregor. If you mentioned Fox TV, he
Speaker 1: has of course been a contributor there as well. Can
Speaker 1: you describe if Colonel McGregor enters the Pentagon is a citizen.
Speaker 1: How he will relate to the Joint Jesus staff. Again,
Speaker 1: what I'm concerned about with Doug is not relating to
Speaker 1: the staff as a and I mean there's a great
Speaker 1: respect for X military among the Joint staff. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: what is being planned and why he was brought in.
Speaker 1: Doug McGregor is brilliant, but he's got some very strong views.
Speaker 1: I worked side by side with him over the years.
Speaker 1: I worked for him in one job. He is creative,
Speaker 1: He thinks outside the box, and I just wonder what
Speaker 1: he's thinking outside the box right now for the next
Speaker 1: see General Kimmon, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: today under sum drest. We're thrilled we could find the
Speaker 1: time to speak to market Kimmon. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on
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