WEBVTT - Are We Still Building?

0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to On the Job. It's hard to believe it

0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.240
<v Speaker 1>that this is now our eighth season, so a sincere

0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.440
<v Speaker 1>thank you to those of you who've been listening through

0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.400
<v Speaker 1>the years. We're thrilled to have you back, and to

0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.000
<v Speaker 1>you newcomers, welcome in. We've got a lot of great

0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.360
<v Speaker 1>stories coming your way because on this season of On

0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.439
<v Speaker 1>the Job, we're going to be focusing our attention on

0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.480
<v Speaker 1>people who have made some pivots in their careers, because

0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.360
<v Speaker 1>while things are looking pretty good out there, if the

0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.600
<v Speaker 1>recent years taught us anything it's that life and the

0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.120
<v Speaker 1>workplace are filled with uncertainty. But as we're going to

0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.040
<v Speaker 1>hear over the next eight episodes, change doesn't have to

0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:51.360
<v Speaker 1>be a bad thing to stick around. If you're not

0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.080
<v Speaker 1>sure how to feel about the economy these days, you're

0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.640
<v Speaker 1>not alone. It's an admittedly confusing time right now. On

0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.640
<v Speaker 1>one hand, we've got quite a low unemployment rate and

0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:06.360
<v Speaker 1>arising GDP, which are both great statistics. Yet at the

0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.319
<v Speaker 1>same time, consumer confidence is shaky, and according to a

0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.119
<v Speaker 1>recent Pew Research poll, when Americans were asked how they

0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.880
<v Speaker 1>feel about the economy, about three and ten said it's excellent.

0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Well nearly the same number of people said the exact opposite.

0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:24.760
<v Speaker 1>So to try to make sense of what's going on

0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.280
<v Speaker 1>out there, I gave a call up to Boston, Massachusetts

0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.440
<v Speaker 1>to speak with author, labor historian, and fellow at Harvard

0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Law mark Erlick, to help us cut through some of

0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.240
<v Speaker 1>that confusion and gain a better understanding of how our

0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.360
<v Speaker 1>economy is faring and what might be coming our way.

0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Mark Erlick, thank you for being on the podcast. Let's

0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.680
<v Speaker 1>jump right into it. How's it looking out there to you?

0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I actually think it's looking quite good. You know,

0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.880
<v Speaker 2>there's the issue of perception and reality and how it's

0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.520
<v Speaker 2>perceived politically about the reality is that the job market

0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.720
<v Speaker 2>keeps climbing, that we have come out of the pandemic

0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.600
<v Speaker 2>better than really any other country in the world, and

0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.200
<v Speaker 2>I think there are a lot of opportunities. I would

0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.680
<v Speaker 2>say that to the degree that what our future holds

0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.000
<v Speaker 2>in some ways is dependent on the election in November

0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.720
<v Speaker 2>and whether the current trends continue or whether there's a

0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.320
<v Speaker 2>sharp turn to a different set of politics and economics.

0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:27.960
<v Speaker 3>You mentioned the election.

0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything else we should sort of have on

0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.000
<v Speaker 1>our horizon to be aware of?

0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you know, there's all sorts of shocks

0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.120
<v Speaker 2>that come that nobody can ever anticipate. Certainly, I think

0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the Russian invasion of Ukraine ended up having global consequences

0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:47.560
<v Speaker 2>that nobody expected and nobody anticipated. So you know, I'm

0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:49.560
<v Speaker 2>not about to pull out my crystal ball and tell

0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.720
<v Speaker 2>you what shocks are on the way.

0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:52.320
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:58.040
<v Speaker 2>But if if we presume that basically the essential elements

0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.720
<v Speaker 2>of economic life continuous, they are, you know, I think

0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.720
<v Speaker 2>the future is pretty promising, and there's a lot of

0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.680
<v Speaker 2>federal dollars that are going to be invested in the

0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.000
<v Speaker 2>economy that you know, while the infrastructure bill was passed

0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.680
<v Speaker 2>a couple of years ago, those dollars are really only

0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.160
<v Speaker 2>getting on the ground now and in the near future. So,

0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, particularly for folks in the construction industry, the

0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:25.760
<v Speaker 2>outlook is pretty promising.

0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.720
<v Speaker 1>As Mark told me, there's only so much crystal ballgazing

0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.680
<v Speaker 1>one can do. As a historian, he knows that unforeseen

0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:40.040
<v Speaker 1>surprises are both unpredictable and inevitable. However, there is one

0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.320
<v Speaker 1>thing that we can all see coming our way, and

0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:44.040
<v Speaker 1>that's AI.

0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I think for the majority of jobs, I don't think

0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:49.960
<v Speaker 2>in the short term is going to be much of

0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.280
<v Speaker 2>an impact one way or another. I think twenty five

0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:57.320
<v Speaker 2>thirty fifty years out, the impact of AI is probably

0:03:57.880 --> 0:03:59.559
<v Speaker 2>going to be incomprehensible.

0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Means well, we might not be able to fully grasp

0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.040
<v Speaker 1>what a world with AI is going to look like.

0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Mark suggests that we don't necessarily have to fear it

0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.480
<v Speaker 1>or fight it tooth and nail. Sometimes the best way

0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.680
<v Speaker 1>to prepare for our future is to understand our past,

0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.640
<v Speaker 1>and so Mark looks to previous innovations like the computer

0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.400
<v Speaker 1>and Internet, which were certainly disruptive to some, but instead

0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:29.800
<v Speaker 1>of eliminating tons of jobs, they've been incorporated into them,

0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.520
<v Speaker 1>allowing people to do their jobs better.

0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.480
<v Speaker 2>If you walk on the construction site and you open

0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.760
<v Speaker 2>up the old gang box where everybody used to store

0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.240
<v Speaker 2>the tools, nine times out of ten you open up

0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:42.840
<v Speaker 2>the gang box and the inside of the lid is

0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.440
<v Speaker 2>a flat screen because everything is done on iPads. Now

0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that the foreman, that the lead electricians, lead carpers, will

0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.640
<v Speaker 2>have an iPad, and the architects will be shooting drawings

0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>back and forth.

0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.159
<v Speaker 1>And at least for now, it seems unlikely that AI

0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.160
<v Speaker 1>will be able to replace a plumber or an electrician

0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:05.320
<v Speaker 1>anytime soon, which is a great thing because those types

0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.239
<v Speaker 1>of jobs, the sort of skilled trade jobs, are having

0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:14.240
<v Speaker 1>quite a resurgence these days. And Mark, a former carpenter himself,

0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.640
<v Speaker 1>which we'll hear more about in the second half of

0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.520
<v Speaker 1>the episode, says, not only are those jobs quite plentiful

0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.679
<v Speaker 1>these days, they were also finally getting their respect they deserve.

0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's been an interesting process. I think

0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:35.039
<v Speaker 2>that's for two reasons. One is that guidance counselors in

0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:40.960
<v Speaker 2>high schools and families works kept saying college, college, college, college.

0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:42.640
<v Speaker 2>You got to go to college if you're going to

0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.840
<v Speaker 2>have a secure living. And what happened when you graduated.

0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.000
<v Speaker 2>You had a pile of student debt and you were

0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.880
<v Speaker 2>a barista or an uber driver, and the prospects, the

0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.560
<v Speaker 2>employment prospects were not anywhere near what they had been

0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.359
<v Speaker 2>projected to be. On the other hand, if you do

0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.400
<v Speaker 2>blue collar work, if you frankly, if you go say

0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.799
<v Speaker 2>through an apprenticeship program, you are earning while you learn.

0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.360
<v Speaker 2>There is no debt. You're learning a skill. In four

0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.600
<v Speaker 2>years and you've become a licensed electrician or you become

0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.799
<v Speaker 2>a master carpenter or whatever, and the occupation may.

0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.279
<v Speaker 3>Be, and you have been.

0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:25.080
<v Speaker 2>You've been making money that entire time, and you're well

0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.600
<v Speaker 2>on your way towards, you know, having a secure livelihood.

0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, not to romanticize these occupations. They're

0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:38.560
<v Speaker 2>still dangerous, they're dirty, they're difficult, but it is I think,

0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.719
<v Speaker 2>becoming increasingly attractive to people when they look, on the

0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.560
<v Speaker 2>one hand, as college tuitions keep increasing and increasing, that

0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.640
<v Speaker 2>becomes an attractive alternative. And I think that's a good thing,

0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.840
<v Speaker 2>because I think for too long we devalue that kind

0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.239
<v Speaker 2>of work in the society. And I'm glad to see,

0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.960
<v Speaker 2>like the enrollment of vocational schools is increasing all over

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.839
<v Speaker 2>the country, and that seems to me kind of like

0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.160
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and eighty degree shift from say even twenty

0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:04.680
<v Speaker 2>years ago.

0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.400
<v Speaker 1>With soaring enrollment in technical and vocational schools and a

0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.120
<v Speaker 1>strong jobs market in the blue collar sector, some have

0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.960
<v Speaker 1>even started calling gen Z the tool belt generation. And

0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.960
<v Speaker 1>as public opinion of the trades continues to change, so

0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:27.040
<v Speaker 1>too are the people drawn to them. For example, women's

0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.920
<v Speaker 1>participation in the blue collar sector is now at a

0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty five year high.

0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, when I was an apprentice again a

0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.960
<v Speaker 2>long time ago, back in the seventies, they were sort

0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.320
<v Speaker 2>of the pioneers who came in with Title nine back

0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.440
<v Speaker 2>in the late seventies with the federal order, and it

0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.840
<v Speaker 2>was really very, very difficult. I mean, most of the

0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.320
<v Speaker 2>guys on the job did nothing one way or another,

0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.880
<v Speaker 2>but they were always a veryly large number of jerks

0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:03.239
<v Speaker 2>who were really hostile. I mean, thankfully those days are gone.

0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Mark has even seen support groups for women in the

0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.000
<v Speaker 1>trades popping up around the country to offer mentoring and

0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:11.200
<v Speaker 1>to increase retention.

0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.840
<v Speaker 2>You're seeing women in the trades being elevated to leadership

0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.480
<v Speaker 2>positions in the industry.

0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.120
<v Speaker 3>It's a very healthy thing, very good thing.

0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.320
<v Speaker 1>And a similar trend is happening with foreign born Americans.

0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.920
<v Speaker 2>My parents are immigrants. I'm a big support of immigration.

0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.959
<v Speaker 2>I think this country was built on immigrant labor, and

0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.480
<v Speaker 2>the only difference now is that it's instead of being

0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.480
<v Speaker 2>folks from Southern Europe or Eastern Europe or wherever, they're

0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:44.600
<v Speaker 2>coming from Central and South America as well as other

0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:50.040
<v Speaker 2>parts of the world. And I think actually that is

0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.319
<v Speaker 2>a strength of the United States. And I am very

0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.520
<v Speaker 2>disappointed that it's become such a political football, because I

0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:05.040
<v Speaker 2>think we thrive on immigration and and and welcoming new

0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.800
<v Speaker 2>workers in the industry. So I think that's you're going

0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to see that that's going to be true everywhere, that

0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:15.400
<v Speaker 2>the blue collar workers are going to be I mean,

0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.960
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons actually that the job projections are

0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.920
<v Speaker 2>doing so well is because of the new of the

0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:24.400
<v Speaker 2>surge of immigrant labor.

0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.560
<v Speaker 1>But the diversity we're witnessing in this toolboat generation is

0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.520
<v Speaker 1>also being felt in white collar and service industries as well,

0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:38.160
<v Speaker 1>where jobs are no longer divided among genders and ethnicities

0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:42.240
<v Speaker 1>the way they once were, and as our workforce becomes

0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.400
<v Speaker 1>more reflective of the community it's built from, that will

0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.480
<v Speaker 1>only make our economy more resilient and more adaptable to

0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:55.240
<v Speaker 1>whatever challenges come our way. When we come back from

0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.320
<v Speaker 1>the break, we'll hear how mark erlik went from the

0:09:58.400 --> 0:09:59.800
<v Speaker 1>job site to the ivy.

0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.560
<v Speaker 4>Looking for a job is lonely, endless searching, phone calls

0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.720
<v Speaker 4>that go nowhere, applications that vanish into thin air. Why

0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.200
<v Speaker 4>if you could link with dozens of local companies who

0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:22.280
<v Speaker 4>are hiring right now with just one connection. That's Express

0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:27.120
<v Speaker 4>Employment Professionals find us at expresspros dot com. One connection,

0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:32.560
<v Speaker 4>endless opportunities and no fees ever for job seekers, Express

0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Employment Professionals, expresspros dot Com.

0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.200
<v Speaker 1>We're back with Mark Irlick, who, aside from having his

0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.720
<v Speaker 1>finger on the economic pulse, is the perfect person to

0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.520
<v Speaker 1>lead off our pivot focus season of On the Job,

0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.720
<v Speaker 1>because it turns out that Mark has quite the pivot

0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.320
<v Speaker 1>story of his own, because long before he was walking

0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 1>those hallowed halls of Harvard, he was swinging a hammer

0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.480
<v Speaker 1>on a job site as a master car carpenter.

0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm a carpenter by trade. I was a member of

0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.880
<v Speaker 2>the Carver's Union. I still am for over fifty years.

0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I worked as an apprentice, the journeym and a foreman

0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.120
<v Speaker 2>and superintendent. But I very much valued my time in

0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:16.560
<v Speaker 2>the field.

0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Was there one area of expertise you had as a carpenter.

0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:20.640
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.280
<v Speaker 3>I tried to be a generalist.

0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.600
<v Speaker 2>I did concrete forms, I did drywall, I did framing,

0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I did finished work mostly, and when I had the

0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.320
<v Speaker 2>opportunity be superintendent, I had to learn about, you know,

0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:33.440
<v Speaker 2>the other trades as well.

0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Mark hat a beautiful analogy for his time as a

0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:40.520
<v Speaker 1>superintendent in which he was responsible for all these different trades,

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.120
<v Speaker 1>each doing their own thing, yet all leading towards the

0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:45.040
<v Speaker 1>same end goal.

0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.280
<v Speaker 2>At its best, and it wasn't always at its best,

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.120
<v Speaker 2>but at his best it was like being a conductor

0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.000
<v Speaker 2>of a symphony when you had got all the different

0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:53.960
<v Speaker 2>trades to kind.

0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.280
<v Speaker 3>Of work together to create this.

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, someone's vision in their head of an architect,

0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 2>and you actually made it.

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.040
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a very exciting process.

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.320
<v Speaker 1>And like anyone who spent enough time on our job site,

0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Mark isn't short on stories.

0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.720
<v Speaker 2>So we got we got there on the on the

0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.679
<v Speaker 2>first day and I said, well, w there's the plans

0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, we don't really actually have the plans.

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.680
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, what do you mean. He says,

0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>I just fired the architect. So I said, well, how

0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.040
<v Speaker 2>are we going to build this thing? And he says, well,

0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.400
<v Speaker 2>we have the initial plans that we did and we'll

0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.240
<v Speaker 2>just work it out now. This was the ended up

0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.880
<v Speaker 2>being the most expensive by square foot restaurant in Boston

0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 2>at the time, and the whole thing was done with

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.320
<v Speaker 2>this guy would travel on weekends to auctions in India

0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and Turkey and he would buy bars and things and

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 2>he would bring him back and and he had a

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.920
<v Speaker 2>storage facility in Boston and he would bring at that time,

0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Polaroid pictures and he would show me, sayd where are

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.200
<v Speaker 2>we going to put this? And I said, well, that

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>won't fit because we've already got the walls. And he said,

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I tear down the walls. So it was a great

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 2>deal of fun. It was a little ridiculous. It was

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.400
<v Speaker 2>way more expensive than it needed to be.

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 1>For the last twelve years of Mark's career, he became

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 1>the head of the entire New England Carpenters Union.

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I got a PhD in constructionology with all those experiences

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.920
<v Speaker 2>and the exposure to the issues of real estate development politics,

0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 2>and because it's really what happens with construction is kind

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 2>of I think, the essence of what a community thinks

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.960
<v Speaker 2>about itself, how it's going to grow, how it's going

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to develop.

0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.120
<v Speaker 1>But when Mark reached retirement age, he didn't just hang

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.440
<v Speaker 1>up his hard helmet and pick up the golf clubs.

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Even after a fifty year career, Mark was still excited

0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>about the construction industry and he had a lot of

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 1>knowledge that he wanted to share with others, and there

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.080
<v Speaker 1>were some very smart folks who were more than willing

0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:58.600
<v Speaker 1>to listen.

0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I retired some years ago, sort of semi retired.

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 2>And now I am a fellow at the Center for

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Labor and adjust Economy at Harvard Law School, and I

0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.959
<v Speaker 2>use that platform to teach about labor and politics and

0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 2>labor history and also to write. I've written three books

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 2>and numerous op eds articles on the topics of labor, politics, history,

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:27.640
<v Speaker 2>et cetera.

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>And Well, Mark didn't personally work on the buildings at Harvard,

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.800
<v Speaker 1>he knows a lot of the tradesmen and women who did. Yeah,

0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>do you ever find yourself at Harvard Law just, you know,

0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 1>looking at joinery or something like that, just drifting off.

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I do most of my work from home. I write,

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>and I see a lot of it as remote. So,

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 2>but you know, when I go there, the Harvard Law

0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 2>School is has quite the beautiful buildings, and almost all

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 2>of those buildings were built by my friends in the trades.

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 2>And I always admire the Uh. It's it's nice to

0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 2>be there to be teaching in a context of an

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 2>environment that my colleagues and friends built.

0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 3>Uh. And so that sort of brings it together.

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 1>But there are more than enough buildings all around Boston

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 1>that Mark did get to work on.

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean I think everybody who

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 2>is a construction worker will go by, We'll drive around

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>with their kids and say, you know, daddy worked on

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>that or mommy worked on this, and it's it's a

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 2>standard item. Uh, you know, sort of a joke but

0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:42.480
<v Speaker 2>also a but a meaningful joke that people again, you know,

0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.040
<v Speaker 2>I think that's part of the satisfaction of the work

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.800
<v Speaker 2>is that you can see that, you can point to

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:54.080
<v Speaker 2>to a structure that you helped create, and that's that's

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 2>not a small thing.

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 1>And if Mark Rlick's predictions of a resilient economy that

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 1>continues a long hold true, and this tool belt generation

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 1>continues to turn to the trades, hopefully in a few

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 1>years we'll have a lot more men and women driving

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 1>their children around wherever it is they live in this

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 1>country and pointing to a building, a bridge, or even

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>an Ivy League school and saying, you see that, kids,

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 1>I built that for on the job. I'm Avery Thompson