WEBVTT - Big Tech in Wait-and-See Mode 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:09.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from Mahard. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:13.600 We're Innovation of Money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:41.080 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.680 Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.680 Technology Coming up. Tech leads us lower as we end 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.760 the week in the red. All eyes on in video 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.160 earnings as the Trump trade it fades plus. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.120 Ali Barber reports solid growth in international and cloud units, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.720 offsetting week sales in its China e commerce. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.800 Business, and SpaceX gets ready to launch a tender offer 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.200 in December, which would value it at more than two 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.600 hundred and fifty billion dollars according to reports. But first 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.400 from private markets to public markets. We're having a pretty 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.000 lower end to the week. Look, the risk off focus 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.840 has come. Whether it's Trump Trade, the euphoria dying, or 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.759 whether it's Federal reserve. Reality is we cut our bets 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.360 for a FED rate cut in December to as low 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.920 as a fifty percent chance. Now we're off by three percent. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.560 This is the worst week since the beginning of September 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.839 for the NASDAC. Just bear that in mind. Four straight 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.200 days of losses. We thank one of our producers for 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.039 that particular key fat. That is the worst set of 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.440 losses that we've seen going back to April. On a 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.720 back to back basis. We're looking at bitcoin though managers 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.120 to continue to power higher on the week but not 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:36.720 on the day. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.199 Bitcoin up some fifteen percent. 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.640 It's a seven day version of this end because trades 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:41.320 over the weekend. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.760 What are you looking at on a micro basis, Yeah, I. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.640 Think part of the reason that the overall euphoria's faded 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.880 post election is the hearing now is about technology earnings. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.520 Applied Materials is the biggest US maker of chip making equipment. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.080 It's like the US version of ASML. It's given us 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.040 a week outlook. We're going to dig into that later 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.160 in the show. Bloombergsin and King. Clearly the stock is 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.000 down a lot. Then you have Ali Barber. These are 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.160 the US listed shares or ADRs, and we kind. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:08.079 Of summer it at the top. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.120 They're seeing really weak or anemic growth in e commerce 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.280 in China, which is their domestic core business, even if 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.399 they're doing well in other areas. Again, we will dig 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:18.919 into that a little bit more in just a moment, 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.480 but don't forget earnings is a story from here. Are 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.560 in because the big one next week in Vidia. All 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.480 relevant and we'll get to it later in the program. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.359 Karen re member the twentieth after the market, All eyes 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.480 on Nvidia, all eyes on what's moving the markets right here, 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.399 right now. Bloomberg of course as well. Lee is over 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.760 in Boston today. Just tell us what you're looking at 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:37.760 in the market. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.359 I'm looking at tech and it's really interesting because it's 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.639 a weight and see for all these tech companies, they're 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.240 really struggling to parse out what a second Trump administration will. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:47.120 We'll do it. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.520 It doesn't help the Trump personally. This likes meta and alphabet. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.520 And if you look at the stocks, they're reflecting that. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.560 While we have Tesla up at about twenty percent for 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.160 a good reason, which is Elon Musk, the rest are 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.560 really trading flat. And then as that, as you pointed out, 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.239 is down for a four straight day, so that's really 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.760 a really long stretch of losing streak. If you want 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.400 to see the where we're seeing action, of course, it's Bitcoin. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.040 It's up thirty percent ever since Trump has declared victory. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.600 And we're looking actually at the sailor buffet ratio so 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.520 as we know, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hasaway is an established company, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.360 it tracks more in names so to speak, and micro 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.080 Strategy tracks Bitcoin well. That ratio, which measures the relative 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.600 stock performance of both so its highest level since two 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.720 thousand and it's not really a surprise because micro Strategy 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.520 is up over four hundred percent while Berkshire Hathaway is 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.200 up just around thirty one percent. And for more conviction, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.880 we saw six billion flowing through crypto funds. That's a record, Caroline, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.760 So it's really interesting to see the two spaces as 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.560 this administration plays out. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.680 Okay, bloombergs Isabelle Lee, thank you very much. We mentioned 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.920 it a moment ago, Ali Barber reporting some solid growth 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.160 in its businesses outside of China international cloud divisions and 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.560 that kind of helped set some of the drag from 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.000 an anemic Chinese e commerce business. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:04.440 Going back to. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.600 Henry Wren out of London's been tracking this print and 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:08.960 that sums up the story. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.320 But what's going on, particularly. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.800 In mainland China with the Chinese consumer that has at 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.040 least the US listed shares moving downwards. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.120 And as you said, this is certainly a result that 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.640 has some good and bad But the bad part is 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.200 of course the local e commerce business, because this is 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.400 the two thirds of ali Baba's revenue generation, and what 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.200 we've been seeing for this quarter is still anemic because 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.440 the revenue that ali Baba generates from third party merchants 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.800 that grew only two percent during the quarter, So that's 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.560 not a sort of rebound that investors have been hoping for. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.679 And a direct cell from Ali Baba's platform also stuck 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.520 in the decline as well. That really shows that consumer 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.279 sentiment in China is still weak, although this morning that 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.920 we have some more positive retail sales state data in 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.080 October showing that the retail sales actually expanded by four 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.800 point eight percent, which is the fastest pace in eight months. However, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.560 we have to take in an account that these results 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.560 came between June and September, and during that period we 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.760 can say that the consumer sentiment. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:19.640 Is really not on amend just yet. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:25.080 International growth, how resilient is that going to be in 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:29.039 the face of geopolitical headwinds, most dominantly here in the 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.880 United States we're anticipating in new administration which isn't very 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:32.600 China friendly. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.359 Yeah, So, as we discussed the domestic e commerce business 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.120 has been weak for quarters and quarters, so they have 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.160 to find a new growth engine. It used to be Cloud, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.760 but Cloud that growth engine has been sputtering for several 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.320 quarters in a row. Now it has showed some signs 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.800 of recovery, but still a long way to go. So 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.600 another way to expand is through overseas business. What we 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.000 see from pdd door as well, which we've been seeing 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:03.000 from team. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.520 Explosive growth in the US. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.800 For Ali Baba, the focus has been in other Asian markets. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.360 We're talking about Malaysia, Indonesia, those markets, and they've been 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.840 doing quite well, although we would have to point out 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.280 that Ali Baba is still burning. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.200 Cash in those markets. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.080 What we've been seeing in the past quarter is they 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.640 are narrowing losses and we see the margins has been improving, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.800 although it's still some distance away from break even. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.479 Henry Wren has been across all of these Chinese e 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:33.240 commerce players. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.000 We thank you. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.120 Now and we're going to turn our attention a minute 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.279 to SpaceX. It's preparing a tender offer in December. The 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.200 two hundred and fifty billion dollar valuation. We're going to 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:43.640 get to those reports. That's next. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:44.600 This is bloe Meg. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:58.080 Technology SpaceX is preparing to launch a tender offer in 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.440 December that will sell existing shares in the business at 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.440 about one hundred and thirty five dollars each. That's according 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.080 to a report in the Financial Times, where they cited sources. 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.000 Bloomberg's Bris ein Horn is here with us and Bruce 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.000 just for a Bloomberg technology audience. The basics a tender 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:18.960 is where employees or some early investors sell shares. There's 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.320 no new capital raise. The main point, I think is 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.920 a valuation of two hundred and fifty billion dollars or 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.280 more is quite eye watering. Put SpaceX up there. What 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:29.000 else do we know? 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:30.240 That's right? 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.360 And so typically SpaceX does these offerings twice a year. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.119 The previous valuation, which was in mid year, was around 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.320 two hundred and ten billion dollars, So two hundred and 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.800 fifty billion dollars of course a big jump up. It 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.560 would be a record for a US company. It's not 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.840 a record for a startup. The record for a startup 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.880 is two hundred and sixty eight billion dollars for Byte 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:56.480 downs to the Chinese parent of TikTok. Just to give 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.840 you a sense of just how much SpaceX's valuation has increased. 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.840 A year ago, when there was a similar offer, the 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.920 valuation was one hundred and eighty billion dollars. 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.520 It feels for some as though the valuation goes higher, 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.680 maybe it gets a Trump Elon Musk bump. Maybe everyone's 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.640 just trying to plow in money to associate themselves with 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.280 the success of Elon Musk and the considerable perhaps ease 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.800 with which he'll get better regulatory approvals when he's associated 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.800 with the next administration. Is that something you eyeing, Bruce, certainly, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.760 gwinnshot while the president of SpaceX is talking about that 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:32.720 very thing this morning. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.720 It's a good point that, of course Elon Musk does 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.400 have the ear of President elect Trump. That said, though 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.280 this is a lot more than just a politics story. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.679 Starlink has more than six thousand satellites in operation. Gwinshot 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.000 well this morning, speaking at a conference in New York, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.120 said that the company has launched more than seven thousand satellites. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.760 This puts Starlink far ahead of any competitor. So they 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.200 are really the dominant player for now, at least in 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:09.719 lower th orbit. The satellite communication, which the valuation partly reflects. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.800 You know, Bruce, the focus on SpaceX is about reusability. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.640 The Falcon generation of rocket can go up and then 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.160 come back down and be used again. But our attention 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.199 is going to turn to Starship. What did Shotwell say 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.040 about Starship? And I guess should the audience be looking 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.000 out to see another test anytime soon? 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.760 Yes, so there will be another test soon. This morning 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:35.320 Gwinschotwell said that we should expect that on Tuesday next week. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.000 This would be the latest test of Starship. Starship is 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.559 just a level, a whole other level bigger than anything 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.680 that's existed up until now. And in her comments this morning, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.600 she also did say that the company expects to launch 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.040 direct to sell service sometime before the end of the year, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.559 sometime in the next month or so. That would also 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.640 put SpaceX out front in another business that's really just 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.640 getting started, offering satellite based communication that could go directly 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.040 to cell phones without having to have any sort of 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.800 satellite dish or any other type of equipment. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.320 More than four hundred Starship launches are possible in the 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.120 next four years, according to Quench Shutwell, extraordinary numbers on 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.720 both evaluation and the amount of launches. Briseiinhorn, we thank 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.680 you Meanwhile, let's talk about Elon Masqu's Tesla seeing a 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.080 big reaction alongside other EV makers. 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.319 Today we get a reprieve. It was yesterday that a. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.240 Report hit from Reuter's saying that Donald Trump and his 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.000 administration is set to end some seven and a half 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.760 thousand dollars EV tax credits that are currently out there. 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.199 Joining us is Terry o Day, in charge Energy COO Terry. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.200 So the point here is that when you buy an 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.640 EV you can get a nice, juicy tax credits seven 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:50.520 and a half thousand dollars and that would be wiped 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.880 out potentially by the next administration. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.640 How important, How integral is that tax credit to demand? 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.160 Well, it's not clear yet, but we do know that 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.440 it is important. It's very valuable to the industry, and 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.200 it's important because of both consumers relying on it and 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.600 manufacturers relying on it. So it's really about EV jobs 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.920 when it comes down to it. And the current incentive 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.960 is only available to American made vehicles, So what we're 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:24.160 really talking about is manufacturing in the US, and that's 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.320 why this comes as a bit of a surprise. And 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.880 the last time this personal tax credit was challenged, it 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.160 had a lot of support in Congress from states that 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.360 are manufacturing the components for electric vehicles, like states like 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.600 Tennessee and South Carolina and Michigan and Illinois. They wanted 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.959 to protect jobs and that's why they protected this tax 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.840 credit last time. So we'll see how this proposal goes 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:48.440 in Congress. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:54.040 Many of those states, not blue states per se, potentially 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:58.280 read and therefore affecting home territory to certain extent for 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.120 your business, when you think about the infrastructure play of this, 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.800 does this set back the adoption. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:04.640 Of evs in the longer term? 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.000 Do you think I know it's hypothesis here, but does 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.440 that make you think about readjusting your strategy? 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:11.960 It definitely has that potential. 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.280 I mean, for our business, we rely on demand from 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.880 consumers and from businesses, so this is a personal task 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.600 credit for individuals. There are other incentives in the industry 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.359 that are definitely on the shopping block from this administration. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.760 So there's an important fight to protect a lot of 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:32.720 those incentives. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:38.160 Now, Terry, you said this is a surprise, is it really? 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.120 Elon Musk has been talking about scrapping subsidies for years. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:44.360 He has been close to. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.640 Trump throughout the election process and now in an advisory 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.240 role because those will out act outside of government. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.000 He will have Trump's here. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.560 But also we had decelerating EV sales growth anyway for 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.679 the latter part of biden'sministration. Why is it a surprise to. 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.920 You, Well, I think decelerating sales growth was going to 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.840 happen anyway, right, because when you're growing year over year 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.960 double digits, you cannot continue that forever, just the law 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.800 numbers doesn't allow it. So deceleration was going to happen. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.480 But this incentive has broad support, as I was saying, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.400 So that's why it comes as a bit of a surprise. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.079 And to be saying this so early in the transition 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.600 is I think also kind of surprising. Look, this is 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:31.720 not a significant tax credit and the range of new 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.439 tax policy we're going to be seeing coming out of 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:40.600 this administration, and it favors US manufacturing, which this new 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.560 administration has been saying is what they really want. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.840 So they're looking for manufacturing. This is something that does that. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.080 Terry, Don't get me wrong, I've got a Tesla model 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.000 why I think Carroy I'm right and saying, also has 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.079 an EV I leased it. It was a competitive lease 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.920 because of the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit. But 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.200 big picture, what is it that's going to put electric 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.160 vehicle sales in North America at least back on a 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.400 path to accelerating sales growth. What do you want to 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.480 see proactively the Trump administration do well? 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.160 The most important thing is that California has the right 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.520 to regulate tailpipe emissions today, and about a dozen other 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:19.640 states have signed. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:19.880 On to that. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:25.560 They have regulations forthcoming that are affecting fleets, So fleets 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.800 would be required to buy evs when those fleets are 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.400 larger than fifty vehicles in their fleet, and manufacturers would 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.120 be required to sell to those fleets, so that dual 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:43.640 regulation is in jeopardy. And overall, California's right to regulate 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.440 tailpipe emissions is what created the EV industry in the 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.440 first place. We think we can compete on an equal 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.360 footing with gas and diesel. Today, my customers like PEPSI 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.920 and FedEx and ups and school districts across the country 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.080 are already saving money by going to electric because it's 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.359 cheaper than gas and diesel on a total operating cost. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.640 So we think we can compete on an equal putting. 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.880 But it's important to have these regulations in place to 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.480 just kind of get over the hump of these pilot 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.240 programs and enable it. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:14.120 To go to scale. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.080 In so saying that terry, it almost makes you think, well, 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.920 why have them if already you're able to compete. That's 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.280 sort of therein lies the argument, and going back to 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.720 the consumer right now, is it that you need to 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.880 compete by what you do. Many people are reticent to 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:31.840 commit fully to an EV. They've been going back to 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:36.400 a hybrid model because they're worried about infrastructure and alack thereof. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:38.600 Yeah, and that's the real trick here. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.560 I think, you know, committing capital to build out an 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:46.119 industry like this is extremely risky. So those regulations provide 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:52.280 the guardrails for investment. It attracts private investment and creates jobs. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.240 And so that's really what this is about, is not 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.360 the you know, favoring one industry over another, but really 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.240 just giving enough certainty to investors that they can put 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.040 capital into the space to continue to grow that charging infrastructure, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.480 to continue to convert their fleets and do the things 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.000 that we want to do for this space. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.440 President Elect Trump's point, i think is not that he's 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.280 antiev but that he's not fully all in ev he 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.840 wants choice. Terry O'Day in charge energy. Soah, great to 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:30.880 have you on the program. 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.120 We're just getting started. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.680 And the thing I remember about last week is when 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.200 Donald Trump was in this room, everybody else was celebrating. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.880 He was stone cold ready for the next step. But 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.040 I also want to thank him for making sure that 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.480 Elon Musk and I own a position to start the 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:51.440 mass deportations of millions of unelected federal bureaucrats out of 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.760 the DC bureaucracy. That too, is how we're going to 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.920 save this country. And I don't know if you've got 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.560 to know Elon yet, but he doesn't bring a chisel. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.680 He brings a chainsaw, and we're going to be taking 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.200 it to that bureaucracy. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:06.160 It's gonna be a lot of fun. 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.040 Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswami, who has recently chosen by President elect 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.520 Donald Trump to co lead the new Department of Government 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.280 Efficiency along with Elon Musk, to cut excess regulation, it says, 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.760 and expenses. Let's discuss this with Jennifer Pallack Pulker. 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.159 Sorry, it's a Friday. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.080 Jennifer Pulker, Senior Fellow at Niscannon Center and former President 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.560 Barack Obama's deputy Chief Technology offers a boy, you have 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.400 got inside knowledge about how easy or hard it is 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.280 to affect policy change within a civil service that already exists. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.360 Look Vivek Ramaswami saying it will be fun to take 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.959 a chainsaw to it. For many who work there, this 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:46.640 won't be fun. 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:47.720 But what's the reality. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.720 Do you agree that, in principle efficiency needs to be found? 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.520 I agree that government has to get better at doing 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.879 what we say we're going to do, and I think 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.320 our inability to do that has I've created the opening 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.960 for this DOGE and sort of other initiatives that you 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.440 see coming out of the Trump White House. Now there's 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.800 so many questions about this. You have significant confluence of interest, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.560 especially for Elon Musk. They have established this thing outside 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.199 of government, so it's unclear if they really intend to 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.040 just rely on executive action or really get. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:25.800 Involved with Congress. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.240 So there's some questions about the whether they can be effective. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.080 But I do think that there is a real problem 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.240 behind all of this rhetoric that needs to be handled 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:41.600 with probably more care than the way that Musk and 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.560 Ramaswami are talking about it. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.480 Jediv I do want to be naive to the fact 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.800 that people have been probably trying to make government more 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:49.960 efficient for a little while. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.359 So what is it that hasn't been done? Oh, we 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:53.520 at the level now. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:58.439 That this sort of decision not to care, not to 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.199 be precise, but actually to just go at it with 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.200 the chainsaw. Just every other Social Security number is out. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.800 Is that the place that we've got ourselves to. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.840 I don't think it has to be. I think a 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.200 good analogy might be brush fires. So I live part 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.040 time in California in a very very high fire risk area, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.600 and I was told when we moved there, you know, 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.560 backwen natives all in the land, there were fifteen trees 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.399 per acre, sorry, yes, per acre, and now there's fifteen 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.520 hundred and so the fires now are bigger, and we 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.080 can do fire management. Now, we've learned a lot, and 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.959 we can mitigate the worst damage. 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.280 But when you haven't cleared out. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.520 The craft for many years, and I think that is 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.520 unfortunately what has happened in our government is that we haven't, 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.919 then we get these conflagrations. 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.440 That burn out of control. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.120 I hope we can stop that, but we are going 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.239 to have some burning, and some of it will end 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.159 up being healthy over the long run. It's in a 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.200 difficult situation to be in, and I think that public 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.640 servants to Jennifer feel nervous about this, have. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.679 A road to be We heard from Vivek Ramaswami in 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.800 that SoundBite, but I had an exchange with him on 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.760 x the social media platform yesterday, and as part of 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.040 that exchange, I flagged the idea that investors are basically 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.439 selling out of companies that are historically main contractors to 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:27.000 the government. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:28.000 For a reason. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.080 They think that you know that mister Ramaswami, who calls 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.040 Uncle Sam not supposed. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.040 To be Uncle Sucker. They think he'll be successful. I 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.680 guess that I would just like you. 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.760 To outline the reality of doing that, canceling long term contracts, 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.879 looking at automate vendors, and ultimately reducing headcamp at government 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.320 agencies based on your experience having worked within it. 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:54.160 If we do that, there. 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.760 Will be damage in all sorts of ways. There's going 0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.240 to be damage to. 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:02.760 Our ability to protect our nuclear arsenal. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.120 For instance, Michael Lewis writes about this in the fifth Risk. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.280 It will chill your bones. We do not want that. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.880 On the other hand, we do need some changes, and 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.040 we need when we do those changes to be thoughtful 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.840 about preserving the foundations that this country is built on. Now, 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:23.479 this isn't a Doge proposal, but if you look at 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.520 the schedule F proposal, for instance, it's not actually addressing 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.960 the real problems of being difficult to fire under performers, 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:36.120 for instance. It's going at the core principles of a 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.600 independent civil service that's able to tell the truth, that 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.040 is hired and fired on the basis of merit. We 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.720 need real civil service reform, not schedule F. 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.080 Jennifer Palker, Senior fellow at NISCAN and sent I really 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:59.080 appreciate your time here on Bloomberg Technology. 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.800 Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.080 New York and I met. 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.439 Love Low in San Francisco. What's going on in the market, Scarret, 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:07.960 I've risk off. 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:08.400 Kind of a day. 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.199 Look, we're back to fundamentals yourfuria. The highs of the 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.840 Trump trade just ease a little bit, and we've refocused 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.880 on the other guy, that is, of course, the head 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.320 of monetary policy. We think about what Jay Power is 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:20.399 saying in in terms of the FED and rate cuts, 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.959 in the market really pairing back how likely that cut 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:24.880 is for December. 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:26.160 We're off by almost three percent. 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.120 You can see the sudden jarring move that we've got 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.159 on this last day of trade. It is the worst 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.840 week for the Nasdaq, the main benchmark now's that one 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.480 hundred at least since going back to the beginning of September. 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:36.920 So we have got a sort of a bit of 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:38.480 a pain trade to end the week. Move on and 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.360 have a look at what's happening on the individual movers 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:42.680 because we're actually back to fundamentals when it comes to 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.359 earnings as well. Ed I China, like what's happening with 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:46.119 some of the chip makers. 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:47.560 Firstly, Tesla is up four percent. 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:50.480 It's like the only Magnificent seven company that is on 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.920 the higher side from the benchmark today it pulls up, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:55.800 but the rest of the Mags seven are pulling down 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.960 on a points perspective, and really that's a relief rally 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.240 after yesterday's sell off from the back of that ev news. 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.560 Applying Materials down eight percent, we're seeing it trade at 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:06.480 the lowest level since February of this year. This is 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.119 a chip equipment maker like asml over in Europe. This 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.520 is the US version, and look, it's signaling that perhaps 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.000 everything in Chipland isn't all that rosy if you strip 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:17.760 out AI again, we're thinking industrial or thinking autos, and 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:19.879 we're thinking China. And I'm looking at in video what 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.879 does this reader cross mean for in video? When we 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.520 get its earnings on November the twentieth ed key for 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:27.160 there were down by two and a half percent. Of course, 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:28.960 the key points drag on the day. What are you 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:29.840 looking at? 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:31.600 Well, let's go back to the chips and do a 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.520 deep dive bloomberg z and King is here with us 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.280 in San Francisco on Applied Materials. It's interesting because part 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.280 of kind of the bigger tech markets discussion is we've 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:41.440 got over the election. 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:42.800 Now and earnings are with US. 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.479 Applied Materials is America's biggest chip equipment maker. Was there 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:49.520 anything in it that was kind of consistent with what 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:53.200 we've heard from ASML the big themes about AI investment 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.359 and those cutting edge machines or China or anything else. 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.240 Yeah, No, that's one hundred percent consistent with what we've 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.399 heard from others. Spoke with the CEO yesterday after the 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.919 release and he was like, look, everything's Okay, well, you know, 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:08.199 there's nothing to worry about. The long term picture for 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.280 this industry is fantastic. I'm not going to worry about, 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:13.679 you know, the odd fluctuation here and there on a 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:18.520 quarterly basis. Unfortunately for him, investors are because you know, 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.840 you have to be perfect with the amount of money 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:24.119 that's been put into these stocks, with the expectations that 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:28.879 exist around AI. Our performance is the only performance. 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.720 Well said, I think a prior to this on the year, 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:33.760 they had actually been up to the tune of about 0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:34.600 fifteen percent. 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.439 Now were only up about five percent. In the reader 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:39.760 cross is important because we're all. 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.520 Going to be obsessing about in video next week, and 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.040 this is your main company that you focus on. 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:46.440 What does it mean for in video? 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:47.600 Yeah? 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:51.280 I mean again, the word AIAIAI keeps cropping up over 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:53.920 and over again. What we've heard with regards to in 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.240 video has been very positive. 0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:56.479 Right. 0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.000 The only thing that's going to hold them back will 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:02.639 be availability of supply. Can they get enough chips to 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:06.440 meet demand. Everything that we're hearing in terms of the fundamentals, 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:08.280 in terms of the sell through, in terms of the 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:10.680 capex's planned is absolutely positive. 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:16.440 You've reported overnight that TSMC, the world's largest contract manufacturer 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.919 of chips, is finalizing its awards from the US government 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:23.719 through the Chips Act. What's new and why is that significant? 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.000 Oh, it's now a legally binding contract between the United 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:31.680 States government and TSMC. So not I won't say there's 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:34.399 no going back, but it makes going back a lot harder. 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.120 It shows that they've already achieved some of the things 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:39.800 that they were supposed to do. They're going to get 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:42.760 a billion dollars of federal money this year, we were 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:46.040 told yesterday. So in general it's a positive sign. It's 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:50.920 moving that whole bill forward, obviously ahead of the administration handover. 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:53.879 Blimbozy and King and all things chips. Thank you very much, Carol. 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.800 Sticking with chips a little bit, it's time for talking 0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:00.800 tech ed and first up shares of Samsung. They'd been 0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:03.520 up in South Korean trade today because the tech giant 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:07.159 is surprising investors with a mammoth buyback of seven billion 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:09.320 dollars worth of its own stock over the next year. 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:11.840 The move comes, of course, the mid investor concerns that 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:15.359 the growth in the firm's memory chip business has been lackluster, 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:19.359 Struggling to keep up with rival sk Heinex, for example. Meanwhile, 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:21.879 Elon Musk was ramping up his feud with Sam Altman. 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.199 In a revised court filing must highlighted and trust concerns 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:27.919 by OpenAI, alleging that the company is trying to corner 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:30.880 the Generator AI market and sacrificing safety. 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:33.000 OpenAI didn't immediately respond to. 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:37.160 A request for comment, and the Ultimate Fighting Championship will 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.000 be looking for a decade long partnership when it shops 0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:42.280 around its media rights next year. This is all according 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:44.560 to the company CEO Dana White, who sat down with 0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:47.680 Boomberg TV yesterday. He also spoke about his relationship with 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:48.600 the President elect Trump. 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:49.200 Just take a listen. 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:52.640 He's the one that when we first bought the company 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:57.760 and venues didn't love the UFC. Back then, he opened 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:00.400 up the TAJ and New Jersey and said, we did 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.800 our first couple of events there at the TAJ and 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:05.320 he showed up for the first one and stayed till 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.080 the last fight. That was when he became a fan. 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:08.880 I know you've been friends with him for a long time. 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.320 Any plans to actually work for him in his new administration. 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:13.200 I want nothing to do with politics. 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:14.440 No I do not I know. 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:20.400 Let's stay in the realm of fighting and competitive sports. 0:27:20.480 --> 0:27:23.840 Netflix shares actually down two percent. Remember tonight is the 0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:27.520 big fight. It is streamed exclusively on Netflix. Jake Paul 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.399 versus Mike Tyson. Don't know about you, Carrot. It's been 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.280 all over my social media feeds and it's an interesting 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:37.320 moment for Netflix whether they can pull off There he 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.160 is and there he Is. We'll be tuning in one 0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:42.320 to watch. You can discuss it on the show on Monday. 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:45.399 Coming up on this edition of Bloombog Technology. Business leaders 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.679 from around the world are gathered in Lima for apex 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:52.680 CEO summit. That includes Google's VP of Government Affairs Corumbatia, 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:55.040 and we're going to hear from him next Stay with us. 0:27:55.200 --> 0:28:12.840 This has Boombog Technology. 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:09.320 Apex CEO Summit. It's been underway for the last few days. 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:09.760 In Lima, Peru. 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.560 Global business leaders gathered to discuss the latest in the 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:14.920 space sector, in AI policy, and much more. 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:16.480 Most Lisa Bromo, it's. 0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.959 Actually sat down with Google's VP of Government Affairs, Kuran Batia. 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:20.520 Take a listen. 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:25.479 In all honesty, I've been here today. The conversation actually 0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:29.560 has mostly been and I've been meeting with foreign ministries 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:34.879 government officials has really mostly been about how can they 0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:39.040 get the benefits of this amazing new technological revolution that's 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:42.680 happening around artificial intelligence. So they want to hear about 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:46.560 what can they be doing in terms of building infrastructure, 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.160 what can they be doing in terms of skilling their people. 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:51.960 There are you know, there's an awareness that there is 0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:57.200 geopolitics that impacts the technology sector as well as everything else. 0:28:57.440 --> 0:28:59.880 But frankly, it's been interesting to me to see how 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:04.800 much interest and appetite there is around getting that technological edge. 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:07.920 So how much have you been surprised or why is 0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:10.920 it important for Google to be so heavily invested in 0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.880 areas like Latin America, like zact East Asia. 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:16.640 Well, first of all, it kind of starts with our 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:20.320 mission as a company, which is to organize the world's 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:23.600 information and make it universally accessible and useful. 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:25.640 And that universal part. 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:27.400 Is really core to our being. 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:31.479 It's a recognition that Google's not fulfilling its mission if 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:37.200 we're not operating in places like Latin America, like Southeast Asia, 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:41.080 East Asia. So I think part of it literally has 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.640 to do with what it is we do every day, 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.040 and as the technology expands and as our business expands, 0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:48.360 these regions. 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:49.280 Become more and more important. 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.920 Obviously, you can't look at the growth that's happening in 0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:57.600 places in East Asia. Latin American markets are doing very 0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:00.640 well and not being encouraged by sort of we're seeing. 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.160 That was Corumbatia, Google VP of Global Public Policy and 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:09.240 Government Relations. Let's get out to Lima, Peru and bring 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.160 in Bloombergs Lisa Rumvitz, who's been there for a few days. 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.160 And what's notable is the presence of big tech, right, 0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:18.680 not just Google, Microsoft as well. What is it that 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.520 they were actually doing there, like give us a bit 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:22.720 more of a sense of the role that those tech 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:24.080 names played in the discussion. 0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:28.800 It's a good question, And first I just want to 0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:31.080 say it is notable that the big tech firms were 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.360 here because there were so many US companies that were absent. 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:35.360 We saw big. 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.959 Tech, we saw energy companies, we saw JP Morgan, but 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:41.760 other than that, US companies were kind of more on 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.880 the sidelines and Chinese companies much more present. Now when 0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:47.040 you talk about some of the big tech names, they 0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:48.840 want to make sure that they get their footprint as 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:52.360 everybody clamorous for the artificial intelligence bedrock that a lot 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.600 of people think will establish the next generation of business. 0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.640 But here's the question, how can they do that when 0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:01.880 regulatory regimes are not set? And that was sort of 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:05.000 the big existential aggs hanging over all of this. How 0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:07.840 do you deal with the fact that President Trump, president 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:11.200 elect Trump will have different policies than President Biden, and 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:13.360 that even now we don't have a real sense of 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:15.920 what counts as national security when some of these companies 0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:17.680 are expanding and what does. 0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:21.800 It so true? Lisa, and we heard from Xijingping at 0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:24.680 the event, the Chinese narrative coming and saying, look, let's 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:29.240 not backtrack, let's stick to a global economy here. But 0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:31.800 how much do you take that at face value at 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:35.600 the moment? How all companies able to invest? 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.719 Well, this is a good question, and the answer is 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:42.280 they look at where they can and what they do know. 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:44.080 And I think that a lot of these companies have 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:46.760 made inroads when it comes to, for example, big tech. 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:50.440 They're looking for countries that have some energy infrastructure. So 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.720 a place like this which has a copper and lithium 0:31:53.760 --> 0:31:57.720 and a whole host of other natural renewable energy sources 0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:01.200 that is appealing on the large your scale, though, there 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:04.000 is a hesitance in certain sectors to really invest, and 0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:05.880 you are seeing that, which is maybe why you're not 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:09.560 seeing some of the more consumer facing sectors like retail 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.160 really coming down here. But you're right, there is this 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.440 question of how do you invest in a time of change. 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:18.960 The answer is carefully, and that's what people are saying. 0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:21.560 You are seeing on the margins, but it's select industries 0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:24.040 and otherwise there is a bit of a paralysis as 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:27.040 people try to figure out what exactly comes next. 0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:31.520 Lisa so busy, great conversations, key among them, Jamie Dimond. 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:34.160 We appreciate it, Lisa Bramowitz. On the ground there in Peru. 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.480 There's so much to unpack from the US election in 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:41.280 terms of geopolitics as well from a venture capital standpoint too, 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.160 from AI policies, tax implications. 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:45.480 Let's just get to it with a race between US 0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:45.960 and China. 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.960 Let's discuss it with a venture investing on today's VC Spotlight. 0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:52.760 Alfred Chuang Founer, General partner at Race Capital. Someone who 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:56.040 has built businesses yourself, be a systems for example, And 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.040 I'm really interested Alfred at this moment of how much 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:03.800 you are putting your mind to the future of US 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:07.520 China relations, the US global relations at this point. 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:10.680 Apparently, good morning, thank you for having me back by. 0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:11.440 Good to CEEO. 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.640 This is a very interesting time. But I think just. 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.880 If you look at where all the activities are in 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:21.920 tech and inventure at this point, pretty much everything is 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.000 AI driven, whether they are like what we do, which 0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:28.000 is straight in the plumbing. So I'm like the plumber 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:31.760 of Silicon Valley. Try to ment all the infrastructure, which 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:35.240 is all the critical pieces to enable the enterprise application. 0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:38.600 Do now have a new network inside and be able 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.960 to be very smart and be very efficient and be 0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:45.880 extraordinarily efficient. The China and the US part of it 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:48.520 is because the way that we train the data for 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.800 the large model itself, we're not completely separated. 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:53.840 So there's a model for China, there's. 0:33:53.720 --> 0:33:56.760 A completely different model what we've been doing actual multiple 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:58.360 models in the United States. 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:00.360 Because I think a lot of it has to do 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:01.000 with history. 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:04.040 Our data are just so much more organized, and we 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:07.000 have systems that we've been preparing for the past decade, 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:08.600 you know, like all the things that we're put into 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:13.040 Spark data breaks, for example, we're all grape preparation for 0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:16.320 organizing this data to make the computer thing like human. 0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:18.880 So US has a huge advantage at this point in 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.480 time and time and getting ahead of this program. 0:34:23.160 --> 0:34:26.799 I'm interested in just the supply chains fact a bit 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:29.880 there out for you talk about the efficiency, the clear 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:33.200 efficiency that's been built in the US, but we're about 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:35.120 to pledge you see, tariffs, so that we can't be 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:37.600 unaware of the fact that a lot of things are important, 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:41.840 even at the most high end technological element. Will that 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:45.800 put pains to efficiency here in the US. 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:48.520 I think there's already pain. I think obviously there's more 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:50.920 pain to the people that are not now allowed to 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:52.960 be importing the eight one hundred and one hundred form 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.640 En video. They're equivalently Obviously, supply chain is not like 0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:58.600 what it used to be before COVID, so we have that 0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:01.680 slowdown already at this point in time. There's never back 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:04.200 to non one. By the way, we are still very 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:06.960 behind in this country. So we're you know, we don't 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:10.319 have any babs right well, pfares have limited availability. We 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:12.840 are dependent on loot of fabs in Taiwan. Some of 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.960 these lower trips are building China still, so there's call 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:18.920 dependency between these countries in order to continue to advance. 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:20.240 At Ai and. 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.960 I'm you know, have great Hopdad, or the great reasons 0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:27.200 of continuing to progress mankind, we don't start this trade 0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:28.879 and which I don't think that will be the case, 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:30.480 because it just will be dysfunction. 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:35.440 I want to think about the environment a bit, Alfred. 0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:38.880 This week, for example, my colleagues and I reported that 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:42.799 Data Breaks is doing a tender largely for employee liquidity. 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:45.400 And that's a name that Data Breaks. That that's in 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.799 your portfolio. But there are signed things are happening right, 0:35:49.040 --> 0:35:51.160 whether it's the IPO market, whether it's. 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:52.680 Different kinds of exits through M and A. 0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:55.000 I'm going to ask you what you think kind of 0:35:55.040 --> 0:36:00.000 happens next, particularly under a Trump administration, for your portfolio 0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:02.880 companies and vcs that are looking for an exit. 0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:03.879 Yeah. 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:06.919 At Berger to CEO, thank you for having me back. 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:11.759 Database is in the unique case Database perhaps, which I 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:16.560 believe is probably the best, the most exciting, the fastest 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:21.799 growing large enterprise tech company and run by probably the 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.000 best CEO ever. 0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:26.359 In enterprise tech. So they're in a unique place. I think. 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.840 Whatever they're going to do in fundraising is their choice 0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.440 that they decided not to go to the proper marketplace 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:34.960 they might have qualified to do so. And I think 0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.359 that's just by choice. And I think that choice come 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.560 from which I believe in the past ten days is 0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:43.080 kind of how we feel with all the founders in 0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:46.040 the valley, which is we're going through a rebook process. 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:49.640 Does rebook process will likely have a chance pose to 0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:56.120 relook at how the SEC, the FDC, the CTPB, how 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.120 they're going to be conducting business, on their policies, how 0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:01.480 they're going to regulate, how to get regularly AI, how 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:05.560 they're going to regulate other webprear technology, cryptos and other things. 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:07.360 And I think we kind of were stuck for the 0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:10.000 last two three years, you know, in a place where 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:13.000 it's very difficult to get anything. Then from that perspective, 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:16.400 very little company, one IPO, very m and A happened. 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:18.360 So I think there's a. 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:20.279 Lot of new hook you know, we don't know, Yeah, 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:22.560 I mean, the new admonstration won't start until the twentyeth 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.080 of January. How are they going to do to do 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.840 things differently to kind of re enable this ability to 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:30.160 do some. 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:30.800 Of these things. 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:34.120 So I think I'm very optimistic I think next year 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:37.080 is going to be an unreal great year for innovation 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:39.560 and for our venture deployment. 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:44.920 Capital out for it very quickly. 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:50.160 The next area of growth for you, the fair the 0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:53.600 next area of growth. Where are you looking right now? 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:54.920 We just have ten seconds? 0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:59.920 Okay, ten seconds without a doubt, AI enabled enterprise applications. 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:03.480 Let's gette hundred percent efficiency on every individual they're using 0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:04.360 enterprice computing. 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:06.080 That's where the growth would be. 0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:07.240 That was ten seconds. 0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:10.320 Alfred Trunk, founder and Race General Partner at Race Capital, 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:22.000 Thank you very much. Plantable Foods has already harnessed the 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:25.800 power of plants to manufacture the Ruby protein, which comes 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:28.680 from duck weed. Now the company's looking to grow the 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:32.120 popularity of the nutrient rich products with a new thirty 0:38:32.160 --> 0:38:35.320 million dollars Series B funding. Round here with more Plantable 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.600 co founder Tony Martin's bacchini and welcome to the program. 0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:39.000 Thank you. 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.960 Also known as water lentils. If you're not familiar with 0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:46.200 duck weed, I don't really know where to start other 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:50.000 than you have some specific technology that has made something 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:52.440 others have tried a success. 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:54.279 Yeah, well we really tried to do it. 0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.360 Plantable is to work backwards from what the food industry needs, right. 0:38:57.440 --> 0:38:59.480 I think over the past couple of years, we've seen 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:04.360 the food industry being overwhelmed with synthetic, unhealthy or elecgenic ingredients, 0:39:04.560 --> 0:39:07.799 and we started to look for a natural successor to 0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:11.400 these unhealthy ingredients that they're using today. We found that 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.000 in an enzyme known as ribisco, which is funnily enough, 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:16.680 one of the most abundant proteins on the planet and 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.440 millions of people are consuming it on a daily basis 0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:22.400 because it's present in every leafy green. Now, then we 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.160 started to look for the most cost efficient and environmentally 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.360 friendly way of scaling ribisco, and we found that in 0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:31.879 this aquatic plant known as lemna or some other people 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:33.080 might call it water lentils. 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:35.120 And so, why do you need the thirty million dollars 0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:36.520 of what's the process from here? 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.399 Yeah, So over the past couple of years, we've built 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:42.359 out our first commercial manufacturing module in West Texas, and 0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:45.239 since then we've been able to start to fulfill some 0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:47.440 of the commercial demand that's out there in the market. 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:49.399 But we're seeing that we aren't really able to keep 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:51.640 up with the demand that's out there, and so we 0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:53.759 need to thirty million dollars in order to continue to 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:57.240 expand our manufacturing operations in Texas to fulfill the commercial 0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:58.160 demand that's out there. 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:01.560 So Tony, am I eating this now? Is it available? 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:03.640 It is available? 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:05.840 You can Actually there are some products on the market 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.640 that contain our product at the moment, so absolutely you 0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:10.560 can eat it right now. 0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:13.480 Where are you in sort of the general approvals when 0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:16.240 it comes to FDA, when it comes to Food Science 0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:17.360 Authority as well. 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:20.560 Yeah, great question. So at the moment we're self affirmed Grass. 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.520 We're working with the FDA to get the final letter 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:27.000 of no questions from their site. In the meantime, we're 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:29.920 also working on a formal approval from the European Food 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:32.279 Safety Authority, which we hope to get by the end 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:34.279 of twenty twenty five early twenty twenty six. 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:37.480 What's it like in the world of raising capital for 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.640 food tech ad tech right now? Because it's been through 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:42.120 to some peaks and troughs, shall we. 0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:47.719 Say, yeah, it's misogonistic as maybe the right word. But 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:50.560 I think we've been working incredibly hard as a team 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:54.040 to hit milestone after milestone and that has really allowed 0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:56.879 us to propel the company forward show that we can 0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:59.680 scale up, but also scale out our technology and prove 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:02.839 that they're true product market fit for our ingredient while 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.840 actually discovering new and new market opportunities every day of 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:06.240 the week. 0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:09.640 Let's talk about the investors why they're interested in you? 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:12.920 Are they traditional texts? And how did you go about 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:16.040 doing this? It's a pretty tough environment. Actually, yeah, it 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:17.200 is a pretty tough environment. 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.080 I think like, why are these Why are the investors, 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:23.200 both the financial and the strategic investors interested? Is for 0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.319 a couple of reasons, right, I think on the on 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:28.160 the financial side, we've obviously been able to show the 0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:30.759 de risking of the technology, the de risking of the 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:33.360 market risk, and it's now a matter of solving the 0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:35.400 operational risk as we move from being an R and 0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:38.160 D company to a full fledged manufacturing company very quickly. 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:39.239 Chipotle is on there. 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:41.480 What's the kind of go to market I'm assuming that's 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:44.359 more a strategic partner, sure, and just financial Yeah. 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:46.680 I think about Chipotle as a company that's really whose 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:50.520 mission it is to produce food with integrity and basically 0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:54.480 create delicious, clean label and healthy foods for the consumers 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:54.799 out there. 0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:56.960 And what we're able to do is We're able. 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.080 To allow them to unlock new recipes or improve their 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:02.560 current recipes without having to introduce new allergence or food 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:04.560 safety risk containing ingredients. 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:06.319 I'm going to look at the ponds near me in 0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:08.640 a whole new way water Lentils. 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:09.279 That's their name. 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.880 Plantable co founder Tony Martin's bikini. 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:14.600 Great to have some time with you. Congratulations on the rais. 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:15.439 Well. 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:17.880 That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:21.680 What a week, ed, Yeah, another astonishing week, a historic 0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:23.520 week in many ways in the context of the election, 0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:26.279 but also tech. Check out the podcast It's Worth the 0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:30.319 recap online on Apple, Spotify and also on iHeart. Big 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:32.279 thank you to the team in New York and here 0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:33.280 in San Francisco. 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:35.319 This is Bloomberg Technology.