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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight at iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Sunday, November thirtieth, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines. We hope you had

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Speaker 2: a fantastic Thanksgiving Day weekend. There is so much to uncover,

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Speaker 2: so I'm going to talk very very quickly. Bear with me.

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Speaker 2: Authorities have actually found the body of that missing Michigan

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Speaker 2: pregnant woman, Rebecca Park, but the story around her and

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Speaker 2: what happened to her body and her baby continues. Plus

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Speaker 2: the family of eighteen year old Anna Kepner who lost

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Speaker 2: her life on that cruise. Her family is begging for answers,

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Speaker 2: and we're told there could be somebody in custody soon

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Speaker 2: and later the show. Also those new developments in the

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Speaker 2: Celeste Revis case. Is it possible that David the popstar

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Speaker 2: will be arrested this week?

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Speaker 3: And that high school football teacher.

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Speaker 2: Not sure if you all have been following that one,

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Speaker 2: but he mysteriously disappeared after some harrowing, terrible allegation, so

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Speaker 2: we'll be unpacking that as well. Plus, we have Joseph

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, our favorite forensics expert and host of the

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Speaker 2: hit podcast Body Bags with us.

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Speaker 3: He'll be doing a little crime lab.

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Speaker 2: Section with us, where we'll be talking about ballistics. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker here of course, with my two favorite ladies,

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in, and we have Taha

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Speaker 2: and Adam in the control room and guys, we hope

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Speaker 2: you had a wonderful holiday.

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Speaker 3: Did you? I did?

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Speaker 4: Did you?

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Speaker 3: I did? I actually caught up on just a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff.

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Speaker 2: It was a very uneventful, worky kind of get through

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Speaker 2: that pile kind of a weekend.

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Speaker 4: And I feel so good for it. My pile was

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Speaker 4: the laundry pile. Yeah, exciting exactly.

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Speaker 2: You know, sometimes the holidays get me a little tripped up.

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Speaker 2: Either I feel so excited or I feel a little blue,

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Speaker 2: and this was.

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Speaker 3: A lot of all of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I had all those emotions as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, same here. Yeah, it was good.

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Speaker 5: I mean, turkey, my oven broke in the middle of

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Speaker 5: preparing Thanksgiving dinner, so that was exciting. Thankfully, the turkey

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Speaker 5: was done. But yeah, then the oven literally just quit working,

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Speaker 5: and so everything else had to be figured out between,

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Speaker 5: like the toaster, the air fry to the stovetop.

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Speaker 3: But we got it on and it was fabulous. Oh good,

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Speaker 3: And now you need to get a new oven.

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Speaker 5: We're seeing we it's gonna I know, it's so annoying.

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Speaker 5: They're so expensive and I don't want one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but we'll say maybe a repair man, yeah maybe Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Are the sales still going on?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, that was the most eventful for sure. That

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Speaker 5: was that was surprising.

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Speaker 3: I would be surprised too, especially goodness.

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Speaker 6: I did a lazy version. I went to a group

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Speaker 6: of friends that had a friend Sera, and all I

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Speaker 6: had to do was bring the alcohol. So I was

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Speaker 6: the bellow the ball.

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Speaker 4: I bought my raining pepsi, my traditional rain dings and pepsi,

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Speaker 4: and it was good. I had a great the food

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Speaker 4: was delicious. My friend Tifany did a great job.

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Speaker 3: I love Adam. What about you?

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Speaker 8: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I had a real low key Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 9: I had friends giving scattered throughout the week because I'm

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Speaker 9: a very popular person.

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Speaker 4: But I can see oh right, right right, you may

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Speaker 4: not believe me. But the show too, you know, yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it was nice. I was just grateful to

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Speaker 3: have some time off of work too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was nice. It was really nice.

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Speaker 10: All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I missed your faces and I'm so glad we're

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Speaker 2: back together. In fact, if anyone here wants to join

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Speaker 2: the conversation eight at eight to three, one crime, or

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Speaker 2: you can leave us a talk back.

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Speaker 3: In fact, we have one right now.

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Speaker 1: Hey, do you guys see that?

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Speaker 11: What do you guys think of?

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Speaker 2: It?

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Speaker 11: So sad?

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Speaker 4: So I could barely hear that. But what I did

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Speaker 4: hear was did we hear about the update in the

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Speaker 4: Rebecca Park case? It's so sad?

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Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, that's correct.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, Unfortunately, Rebecca Rebecca has been found and not

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Speaker 4: in there's no good news. Authorities have found the body

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Speaker 4: of pregnant twenty two year old Michigan woman Rebecca Park,

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Speaker 4: although her baby remains unlocated. Remember she was nine months.

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Speaker 4: Her due date was December I think I'm sorry, November two.

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Speaker 4: It was right after she had gone missing, like a

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Speaker 4: couple of days. So victim Rebecca Park's fiance his name

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Speaker 4: is Richard Lee Fowler, and her biological sister Kimberly Park

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Speaker 4: have been arrested on unrelated felony charges. Though it's very

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Speaker 4: interesting this all happened on the same day they found

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Speaker 4: Rebecca's body in the morning, and Kimberly, her sister, and Richard,

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Speaker 4: her fiance, who's also allegedly the baby's daddy, were both arrested.

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Speaker 4: So initially it looked like, oh my gosh, they must

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Speaker 4: have had something to do with this. But apparently it's

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Speaker 4: on unrelated charges. But I still think there's maybe something

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Speaker 4: there that we just don't come on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way those are now related. Is that

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Speaker 2: even possible?

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Speaker 4: Well maybe because the charges are very strange. Okay, So

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Speaker 4: Kimberly's charges are I'm sorry, Richard's charges. He is the

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Speaker 4: father of the baby that's a missing right now. Okay,

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Speaker 4: the baby's missing. When they found Rebecca, the baby had

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Speaker 4: been removed.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So Richard, who's the baby's father and also her fiance,

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Speaker 4: he is on charges two. He is in on charges

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Speaker 4: of two counts of methamphetamine distribution. So if convicted of that,

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Speaker 4: is going to jail for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's a massive charge that he you know,

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Speaker 4: will will have the sister is her biological sister. Her

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Speaker 4: name is Kimberly Park and she isn't in prison for

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Speaker 4: or in jail right now for The charges are tampering

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Speaker 4: with evidence and lying to police. So I don't know,

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Speaker 4: if listen, there's something there, but we don't know. But

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Speaker 4: what I do know, and what's happening right now, real time,

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Speaker 4: right this moment, I'm getting updates as we were going

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Speaker 4: live on the show. Brad, who is Kimberly, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 4: not Kimberly. Rebecca the victim, okay, the pregnant woman who

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Speaker 4: went missing and found dead. Her mother his name is Courtney.

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Speaker 4: That's her biological mother, Okay. Her husband's name is Brad,

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Speaker 4: so it's Rebecca's stepdad. He has been at the sheriff's

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Speaker 4: office today and is now leading the Sheriff's department in Cadillac, Michigan,

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Speaker 4: in that area in Michigan to an area near the

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Speaker 4: two Track road where that phone was found initially and

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Speaker 4: very close to where Rebecca's body was found. So the

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Speaker 4: scuttle butt right now, this is allegedly, allegedly allegedly this

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Speaker 4: is a scuttle butt, is that he is singing and

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Speaker 4: showing the police some information, and the police have been

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Speaker 4: at the home today Courtney and Brad again the victims mother,

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Speaker 4: biological mother, and stepdad at their home and they've taken many,

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Speaker 4: many things from the home, including a burn barrel.

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Speaker 3: Can I just make sure I get all of it?

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's it's you know, it's a WYB Rebecca

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Speaker 2: Park who's pregnant in twenty two years old.

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Speaker 3: She has a mother, a stepfather.

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Speaker 2: Then she has a boyfriend who she's having a baby with,

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Speaker 2: and a sister and.

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Speaker 3: It gets more complicated.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, I was gonna say, so, the sister's been

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Speaker 2: arrested for lying to police and you know, maybe tamper

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Speaker 2: with evidence. Do we know if that's related to Rebecca's death. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the case that she's been tampering.

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Speaker 3: That's what I believe.

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Speaker 4: We don't know for sure, we do believe so, yes,

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Speaker 4: because the judge, Okay, the judge gave Kimberly the sister,

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Speaker 4: a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash bond and

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Speaker 4: said that she is basically a danger to the community.

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Speaker 4: So I do we do believe that it's related.

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Speaker 2: Then the father or the soon to be father of

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Speaker 2: this right, we should talk about the forensics with Joseph

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Speaker 2: when he's here. The how this baby is no longer

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Speaker 2: in its mother.

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Speaker 4: We shouldn't definitely do that. It's sickening.

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Speaker 2: So there's a baby daddy, and that baby daddy's been

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Speaker 2: arrested on meth charges and if convicted, he's looking at

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Speaker 2: life completely secretly unrelated.

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Speaker 4: But I think probably with him, what happened was they

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Speaker 4: were searching the home that they lived in and found

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Speaker 4: probably evidence that he was dealing. He is a registered

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Speaker 4: sex offender and he as a pretty ad violent passed

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Speaker 4: and so I think they were searching the home and

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Speaker 4: found probably something that related to him.

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Speaker 2: Going wow, and then so sweet Rebecca also has a

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Speaker 2: mother and then a stepfather, And just to track that,

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Speaker 2: authorities have been in and out of their home even

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Speaker 2: as we speak, and materials have been.

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Speaker 3: Removed from their home moment.

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Speaker 2: And it seems like this circle is not only small,

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Speaker 2: but the walls are closing in on this particular circle,

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Speaker 2: and right now they're circling the area to a very

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Speaker 2: specific location where Rebecca's phone was found.

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Speaker 3: Correct, which is right near the biological mother's home, which

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Speaker 3: is also right near where Rebecca was found as well.

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Speaker 3: So what do we think, does anybody else series? Yes?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So when Rebecca went missing, Courtney her mother said that,

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Speaker 4: you know, she had come over to get like an

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Speaker 4: inheritance check or some cash from an inheritance, like two

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars, and that a black car pull up and

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Speaker 4: Rebecca got into the car saying this is something I

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Speaker 4: have to do. Well, that was shady to begin with,

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Speaker 4: and clearly that didn't happen, right, it did, never happened.

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Speaker 4: And so I think, listen, this is all alleged. I

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Speaker 4: think all of them are involved, all of them. Goodness, Well,

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Speaker 4: you have to understand Courtney, her mother, the victim's mother.

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Speaker 4: Courtney was also at one time in a relationship with

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Speaker 4: Richard baby Daddy who her daughter is now engaged, was

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Speaker 4: engaged to and now sex offender. Yeah, well, listen, we're

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Speaker 4: gonna keep We're gonna keep updated on this. This is

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Speaker 4: true crime tonight. Give us a call at eighty to

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Speaker 4: eight thirty one crime or hit us on the talkbacks

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Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app. What do you think? Where is

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Speaker 4: this baby? Give us a call and let us know.

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Speaker 3: Courtney.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so we're gonna move to a different story. Austrian

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Speaker 5: beauty influencer. It's a woman named Stephanie Piper. She's thirty

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Speaker 5: one years old and was found dead in a forest

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Speaker 5: in Slovenia. Allegedly she was strangled by her ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 5: So this beauty influencer, Stephanie Piper. She went missing November

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Speaker 5: twenty third. Relatives and colleagues alerted authorities when she failed

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Speaker 5: to appear for a scheduled modeling shoot, and her unnamed

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Speaker 5: ex boyfriend has been arrested and extradited to Austria. And

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Speaker 5: this was after he allegedly led police to the victim,

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Speaker 5: Stephanie Piper's body, which was hidden in a suitcase in

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Speaker 5: the woods.

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Speaker 2: In a suitcase, again, you don't just like fold up

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Speaker 2: into a suitcase.

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Speaker 3: So likely she had been you know, dismembered, I assume.

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Speaker 5: Or it was a lot I actually I have no

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Speaker 5: information on that, but certainly there are suitcases or Duffel bags.

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Speaker 3: That's true, big enough over.

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Speaker 6: To large pieces that yeah. And also we're not one

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Speaker 6: hundred percent sure of how she might be a smaller girl,

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Speaker 6: so we don't know her stats just yet.

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Speaker 2: So good luck finding a suitcase to fit me in

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Speaker 2: and meet a woman. I mean, this is horrendous. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Joseph can break some of that down. If you look

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Speaker 2: at a photograph of her, she's just the most stunning,

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Speaker 2: most beautiful girl you've ever seen in the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she really is.

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Speaker 5: And here are the details of what led up to

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Speaker 5: that time, and there's a decent amount of time stamped information.

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Speaker 5: So on November twenty third, the victim, Stephanie Piper, she

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Speaker 5: returned home to her apartment in Austria, and this was

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Speaker 5: after she went to a Christmas party. She left with

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Speaker 5: a friend in a taxi fine. That night, the victim,

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Speaker 5: Stephanie Piper sent a WhatsApp message to a friend and said, Hey,

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Speaker 5: I've arrived home safely. That, however, was followed up by

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Speaker 5: another message and she expressed concern that Stephanie Piper thought

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Speaker 5: someone might be in her starewell and she was scared.

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Speaker 3: Good god, Yeah, terrifying.

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Speaker 5: So the night of the twenty third of November, the

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Speaker 5: morning of the twenty fourth, the victim, Stephanie Piper's neighbors

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Speaker 5: reported hearing an argument between the makeup artist and beauty

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Speaker 5: influencer Stephanie and also saw the victim's ex boyfriend presence. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and Then, shortly after this argument was heard, witnesses say

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Speaker 5: that the ex boyfriend of the victim, Stephanie Piper, was

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Speaker 5: seen leaving the apartment with some kind of a rug

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Speaker 5: on his shoulder.

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Speaker 3: Oh gods, so this isn't looking great so far.

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Speaker 6: Rug on his shoulder, like as though like a body

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Speaker 6: might have been rolled up in it or something, you think,

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Speaker 6: or what you know.

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Speaker 5: That's where my mind certainly jumps too, but we can't

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Speaker 5: say that specifically. However, the now deceased Stephanie Piper, her

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Speaker 5: family and colleagues, they were just crazed, and again they

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Speaker 5: did the absolute right thing and reported her immediately.

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Speaker 3: And the excuse me.

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Speaker 5: When the police got to the apartment and found the

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Speaker 5: ex boyfriend of the victim there, he claimed at the

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Speaker 5: time that he was simply looking after the victim's dog.

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Speaker 5: But that's when police noticed that there was some blood

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Speaker 5: on the door.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. So this, however, was not enough for an arrest.

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Speaker 5: But then, you know, I don't know if Austrian or

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Speaker 5: Slovenian law is sure different than American. However, surveillance camera

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Speaker 5: footage then revealed that the victim's ex boyfriend was seen

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Speaker 5: driving across the Slovenian border and back to Austria that

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Speaker 5: same afternoon. The countrys small and border each other. So

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Speaker 5: Veni is particularly small. I've been there, and you can

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Speaker 5: drive back and forth in an hour, Like an hour, right,

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Speaker 5: it's like the size of Rhode Island. So that's where

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Speaker 5: that's where it lands. The ex boyfriend of the victim

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Speaker 5: then tried to douse his car allegedly to yeah, allegedly

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Speaker 5: to cover up evidence.

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Speaker 4: Oh my, we should talk to Joseph about that too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So we'll continue this with Joseph later. And then

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Speaker 5: after the break, a high school coach is missing after

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Speaker 5: being accused of a heinous crime. We've got that and

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Speaker 5: more true crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 3: Body move in.

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Speaker 2: We hope you guys had a wonderful thing Thanksgiving, because look,

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Speaker 2: we have Joseph Scott Morgan, our favorite forensics expert and

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Speaker 2: host of the hit podcast Body Bags. If you have

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Speaker 2: not listened to it, please do three episodes a week.

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Speaker 3: He's such a rock star of forensics.

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Speaker 2: And we're so happy you're with us, Joseph, did you

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Speaker 2: have a good Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 7: I did.

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Speaker 11: I was just telling you guys, I'm recovering from trip

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Speaker 11: to fan hangover right now and hangover of grand babies

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Speaker 11: running all over my house. Job.

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Speaker 2: It's exhausting. Yeah, exhausting. Well, hopefully we'll all sleep well tonight. So, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: we've been talking about some really difficult cases. So we're

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Speaker 2: so happy you're here. But first let's go to a

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Speaker 2: talk back.

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Speaker 10: Hi, my name is will Uh and I heard about

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Speaker 10: influencer girl, the influencer girl that was strangled by her

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Speaker 10: boyfriend in Europe. My question is, when someone is strangled,

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Speaker 10: what are the key forensic signs you look for to

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Speaker 10: confirm it? Okay, thank you, good question.

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Speaker 5: That's a great question. And just to catch up anyone

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Speaker 5: who's just joining us, what that talkback?

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Speaker 3: Who boy? You are keeping it current?

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Speaker 5: What that talkback was referring to was Austrian beauty influencer

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Speaker 5: thirty one year old Stephanie Piper. She was found dead

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Speaker 5: in a forest in Slovenia and allegedly she was strangled

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Speaker 5: by her ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: She had gone missing.

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Speaker 5: Parents put up a big search and the ex boyfriend

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Speaker 5: has been arrested in this case and her body was

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Speaker 5: found hidden.

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Speaker 3: In a suitcase in the woods.

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Speaker 5: So what are back to the talk back, What are

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Speaker 5: the signs that someone looks for for strangulation Joseph.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, it's an excellent question, and thank you for it.

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Speaker 11: There's a lot to be learned because we've got a

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Speaker 11: variety of structures in the neck. You think, you know

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Speaker 11: the everybody's heard of the highway bone. We want to

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Speaker 11: know if that's certainly fractured, but it's really high up

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Speaker 11: in the neck. You do see it associated with manual

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Speaker 11: strangulations and also the laynix, the kind of cartilaginous body

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Speaker 11: that sits in the middle line of our neck that

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Speaker 11: can be crushed, and of course that includes the airway

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Speaker 11: and your ability to uptake oxygen and then internally also

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Speaker 11: we have all of the various muscle structures you'll here

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Speaker 11: refer to as what are called strap muscles STRP and

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Speaker 11: they're kind of interlaced in the neck. It's a very

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Speaker 11: interesting structure. And what we look for in there like

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Speaker 11: little focal areas of hemorrhage. Now those areas of hemorrhage

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Speaker 11: translate also into the eyes, particularly with PETIKII, and that

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Speaker 11: is where the blood flow is so compromised by the vessels.

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Speaker 11: We think of the the juggler vein as well as

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Speaker 11: the crotted artery in the neck. And if that's squeeze,

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Speaker 11: just think about squeezing a hose pipe and pressure bills, right,

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Speaker 11: And so those little vessels burst. So there's a litany

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Speaker 11: of things that you look for in structures of the

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Speaker 11: neck and we have to be very very careful when

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Speaker 11: we dissect those What.

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Speaker 2: Is a hemorrhage exactly just in Layman's terms.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, so you know when we were in school, we

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Speaker 11: learned about the capillary beds, right, you know, you have

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Speaker 11: the arterials and the venuols and their all kind of interlaced.

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Speaker 11: They're very tiny. They're meant to move blood, not store blood.

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Speaker 11: And so particularly when you've got a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 11: pressure in there, and so those little focal areas of

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Speaker 11: hemorrhage arise from those little vessels bursting and it leaches

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Speaker 11: out into the underlying muscle and the soft tissue and

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Speaker 11: you don't get those, you know, they just don't spontaneously happen.

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Speaker 11: Here's an interesting little aside. Did you know that women

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Speaker 11: that are giving birth will actually present with ocular PETIQI

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Speaker 11: because of the strain international birth. And here's a little

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Speaker 11: bit more disgusting. But you'll also see it with people

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Speaker 11: that have chronic bowel issues like constipation. They'll blow out

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Speaker 11: little vessels in their eyes as well, But primarily in

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Speaker 11: our field, they're associated with manual strangulation.

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Speaker 5: I had another question about this case, Joseph, about the

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Speaker 5: Stephanie Piper, the beauty influencer's death. So before she was

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Speaker 5: led by her ex boyfriend, now in custody and allegedly

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Speaker 5: strangled by him, this ex boyfriend did what I would

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Speaker 5: consider a very odd thing. So between the borders of

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Speaker 5: Austria and Slovenia, this unnamed ex boyfriend how doused his

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Speaker 5: car with flammable liquid and the theory is that he

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Speaker 5: did that to help get rid of evidence, but he

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Speaker 5: then went into the casino to get help putting the

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Speaker 5: fire out. Just an odd choices all around. But how

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Speaker 5: much you know? If I wanted to cover up a

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Speaker 5: crime and light a fire, am I in the clear?

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Speaker 5: I've destroyed all the evidence.

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Speaker 11: No, it's my opinion. Some people will differ from this,

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Speaker 11: I submit to you.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you do.

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Speaker 11: De stroy certain fragile elements. Think about trace evidence. Okay,

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Speaker 11: you know fibers, those sorts of things, you are destroying it,

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Speaker 11: and yeah, you can destroy blood. However, you are creating

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Speaker 11: another category of evidence when you do this, when you

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Speaker 11: make this choice. And you know, if a fire is

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Speaker 11: started with a source like an accelerant, and you know,

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Speaker 11: in Europe they call it petrol, okay, but gasoline here

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Speaker 11: in America. If you apply gasoline to the surface, that

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Speaker 11: is not fuel. We think of gases fuel for our vehicles,

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Speaker 11: but that's not fuel. That's an accelerant. So the fuel

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Speaker 11: in this case would be the vehicle. And vehicles can

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Speaker 11: burn pretty well. However, it's not like you've got cord

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Speaker 11: wood that you're piling onto a fire and you keep

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Speaker 11: the fire rolling. It's got a Every fire has a

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Speaker 11: terminal event, But vehicles don't make great sources of fuel

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Speaker 11: in order to sustain a fire. You know, some of

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Speaker 11: the things we need to sustain fire are uninhibited oxygen

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Speaker 11: access to oxygen, We have to have a fuel source,

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Speaker 11: we have to have heat, all of that sort of thing,

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Speaker 11: and heat is actually a byproduct of that fire. So

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Speaker 11: you're creating other evidence. So if you have an accelerant

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Speaker 11: that's used, we can track down the type of accelerant

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Speaker 11: that was used. We can also source where the fire started. Okay,

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Speaker 11: So you would normally think, well, the fire because how

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Speaker 11: many people that we know of or just our general experience,

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Speaker 11: you drive down the road and there's a car fully

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Speaker 11: involved in fire and you see it on the side

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Speaker 11: of the road. Many times it's emanating from under the hood,

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00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 11: and fires generally starting the engine. Fires don't start in

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Speaker 11: the back seats of cars, right, and so you know,

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Speaker 11: you have to pinpoint and most of the time, here's

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Speaker 11: a little insight most of the time. Most of the time,

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Speaker 11: particularly when it comes to structure fires, the more destruction

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Speaker 11: you have in the area, there's a higher likelihood that's

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Speaker 11: where the flame started or the ignition source was applied

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Speaker 11: at that location.

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Speaker 2: This guy wasn't even trying, Like he literally wasn't even

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Speaker 2: I mean, you don't leave a suitcase in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the forest with a dead body in it and

415
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Speaker 2: think nobody's going to find it.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, it's just blows your mind.

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Speaker 2: Now there's two lives completely destroyed, right, terrible.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, And I would submit to you that that se

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Speaker 11: suitcase also is a massive piece of information because suitcases. Look,

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Speaker 11: all you have to do is roll into lax or

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Speaker 11: Atlanta Airport and you look at the carousel. How many

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Speaker 11: different types of suitcases are there? Suitcases are unique to

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Speaker 11: the owners, right, so that suitcase is a conveyance for

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Speaker 11: the body. We would want to end cases where I've

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00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 11: worked where no pun intended, where a body has been

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Speaker 11: encased in a suitcase. You'll see how many times we

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Speaker 11: can use that word. We want to know the origin

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Speaker 11: of that suitcase. Who's the manufacturer, what lot number did

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Speaker 11: it come off of at the manufacturer? Can we source

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Speaker 11: it back to where it was purchased when it was purchased,

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Speaker 11: because a lot of people that make the decision to

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Speaker 11: use a suitcase will go out and purchase a suitcase

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Speaker 11: specifically for that. They don't just say, hey, let me

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Speaker 11: see what I've got in a closet. You know, Kimmy

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Speaker 11: and I have got tons of suitcases around the house,

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Speaker 11: you know, And so not that we're going to dispose

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Speaker 11: of any bodies or anything. However, you know, if people

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Speaker 11: will run out, what can I do to get rid

439
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 11: of a body? Well, there's your first big clue. So

440
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 11: you want to be able to track down the suitcase.

441
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 11: Suitcase is also not good because it protects evidence. It's

442
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 11: an encasement you're holding on to trace the evidence.

443
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: Right, you're just joining us. We've been talking about the

444
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 4: death of Australian I almost said Australian Courtney, you cursed me,

445
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 4: Austrian beauty influencer Stephanie Piper, who was Yeah, sound a.

446
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: Little scratchy, You sound a little bit scratchy.

447
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: I can jump in is yeah, don't.

448
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: It's like a little it's like a little she has

449
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: a little mouse in her microphone.

450
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 3: So I don't know what's as that's getting like sordid.

451
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: We are talking about the influencer whose body was just horrendously,

452
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: horrendously found in a suitcase. If you have any thoughts

453
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: on that, please join the convo. But also there's this

454
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: other terrifying, horrible case about Rebecca Park Joseph that I

455
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: know you've been following so closely, the young Michigan woman

456
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: who was pregnant twenty two years old, whose body was

457
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: discovered although her baby had I don't even know how

458
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: to say this without grossing everybody out. Please trigger alert

459
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: on this Thanksgiving weekend her baby was not with.

460
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 4: Her body taken baby whose baby was taken?

461
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: But was it?

462
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know that we have the stomachs

463
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: to hear how, but what.

464
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: Do you think?

465
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 11: So well, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step

466
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 11: on anybody there. So yeah, there's been a couple of

467
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 11: cases where in euro babies have been taken. And forgive me,

468
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 11: I know we've got such brilliant fans out there in

469
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 11: the true Crown community. I know that someone will remember

470
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 11: this case because I was completely disgusted by it. It

471
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 11: was something it happened in the dakotas I believe, and

472
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 11: there have been other ones too. And if you can

473
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 11: just imagine, you've got an individual who may or may

474
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 11: not have I'll just talk in generalities here. They take

475
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 11: viable babies, you know, bies, Babies are viable or you know,

476
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 11: in the latter port portion of their gestations, so you

477
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 11: start to get in that third trimester and babies can

478
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 11: become viable money.

479
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 4: And she was only missing for a couple of days

480
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 4: before her due date.

481
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 11: Right, and so she's well, you know, she's approaching the

482
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 11: grand date, right, and so this baby would be viable

483
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 11: unless there's some kind of underlying medical stuff that we

484
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 11: don't know about.

485
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 7: However, the.

486
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 11: Trick is, if you're going to I don't know how

487
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 11: to say this, if you're going to deliver a child,

488
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 11: you have to do it quickly. And there have been

489
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 11: cases where children have been delivered after the mother has

490
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 11: passed on. It's like an immediate event.

491
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 7: Uh.

492
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 11: There have been also events where and this is quite horrible,

493
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 11: where the mother is.

494
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 7: Still alive where this takes place. Uh.

495
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 11: And then what are you going to do to protect

496
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 11: the child? Because you know, a newborn is one of

497
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 11: the most fragile, fragile creatures on the face of the planet.

498
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 11: You have to protect this precious little angel. So when

499
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 11: you think about that, what are you going to do?

500
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 11: And we can find evidence of what happened, that's the

501
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 11: most important thing with with mama's remains.

502
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 7: Uh.

503
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 11: And that's important because we do an extensive exam.

504
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 8: At the at the autopsy suite, would they be able

505
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 8: to tell that, Joseph if and I don't mean to

506
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 8: be graphic, but would they be able to tell if

507
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 8: the baby survives from at Rebecca?

508
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 11: Well, okay, here here's here's the thing we've got. We've

509
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 11: got a mother who has uh, that's absent a child,

510
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 11: and so it would be hard to know if the

511
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 11: baby has survived to this point. I prayed that the

512
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 11: child has. However, if there is some type of methodology

513
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 11: that they used other than her just spontaneously delivering badgeally,

514
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 11: I think that it would be very difficult to determine

515
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 11: if the child in fact was live following some kind

516
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 11: of traumatic delivery. And if I'm not mistaken, her remains

517
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 11: were found sometime after she was last known missing. I

518
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 11: forgive me, I can't remember the daby.

519
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 10: Well.

520
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: Is it possible that she died while in childbirth just

521
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: naturally and you know the body, the baby was delivered

522
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: and in a panicked moment, everybody around her, I don't know.

523
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: Story from the.

524
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 11: Family, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And that is possible. And

525
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 11: some of the things we're going to be looking for

526
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 11: at autopsy. I want to know because anybody that has

527
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 11: gone through a birth been pressing. I've been present for

528
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 11: all of my precious children being born. One of the

529
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 11: things that you're looking for, you know, you want to

530
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 11: know if the placenta has been delivered. You want to

531
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 11: know if there's a bilical cord there, if the body

532
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 11: is intact. That's mama's body. We can lurk, we can

533
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 11: actually do a bit of research relative to hormonal changes

534
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 11: that have taken place. That they're kind of a company,

535
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 11: a company of birth and so you know, a lot

536
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 11: of data to sif through. And it's complicated because we

537
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 11: were talking about a mama that was found sometime down

538
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 11: range following the last time she was actually seen alive.

539
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 4: Right, and it is my understanding from the searchers who

540
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: found her, because they've been on social media that it

541
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 4: was not a vaginal birth, that the baby was actually

542
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: taken from her.

543
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, and it's really horrible, and there would be evidence

544
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 11: of that even in a state of decomposition.

545
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 7: That we could appreciate. Yeah, and they.

546
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 11: Will be able to describe the trauma that she endured.

547
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: And listen, we're going to try to shift things up

548
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: a little bit because those are very difficult stories now

549
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: that this next crime lab is not. But we're gonna

550
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: switch gears a little bit and change up the energy.

551
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: So we have Joseph Scott Morgan, our most favorite forensics

552
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: expert in host of the hit podcast body Bags please

553
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: check it out. He's going to give us a dissertation

554
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: because he's also a professor of forensics.

555
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if you all know this.

556
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: So he's going to give us a little bit of

557
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: a dissertation about gunshot wounds and we're going to call

558
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: it a crime lab featuring Joseph Scott Morgan talking about

559
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: gunshot wounds. So Joseph and if anybody wants to join live,

560
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: call us eight eight eight three one Crime or you

561
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: can leave us a talk back about any thing forensics

562
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: related for Joseph, and he's always happy to answer.

563
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 11: Thanks for having me, guys, and welcome. Your hands up

564
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 11: and I'll recognize you accordingly. Yes, probably the single biggest

565
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 11: question I get in the realm of death investigation as

566
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 11: a relative to methodology is going to be firearms related

567
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 11: to us. And the nature of firearms are fascinating, particularly

568
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 11: from a scientific standpoint, because they fall under a general

569
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 11: category called ballistics, and ballistics is a subdivision of physics.

570
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 11: So you think about major areas of science that we

571
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 11: study in the natural sciences. We think about biology and

572
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 11: chemistry and physics, and so we have internal ballistics and

573
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 11: external ballistics. How the firearm actually works internally and then

574
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 11: the external effects of the projectile traveling traveling through the air. Okay,

575
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 11: So for us as forensic scientists, one of the things

576
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 11: that we're interested in, it all goes back to the

577
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 11: principle that's called individualization. Can we take a projectile, we

578
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 11: don't call them bullets, we call them projectiles. Can you

579
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 11: take a projectile and tie it back to a specific

580
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 11: weapon platform, and not just any weapon platform. If we're

581
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 11: talking about a nine millimeters pistol or a five point

582
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 11: five to six rifle, we want to know the exact

583
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 11: weapon within there. That's where we come up with. You know,

584
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 11: you'll hear terms thrown around like ballistic fingerprint and all

585
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 11: those sorts of things. But some of the major areas

586
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 11: that we look at when we're talking about death investigation

587
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 11: are going to be range of fire we think about,

588
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 11: we think about trajectories, which is some thing that goes

589
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 11: into positionality, and then we also think about gunshot residue,

590
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 11: you know where, and all of these are part and

591
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 11: parcel and it's not strictly physics. You know, you start

592
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 11: to get into the composition of propellant, which other people

593
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 11: if people say gunpowder, what that actually is is propellant

594
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 11: and the composition the chemical composition. So when we swab

595
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 11: someone's hands, for instance, we swab a body, we're actually checking.

596
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 11: And you hear the term GSR thrown around a lot

597
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 11: on these TV shows. It's gunshot residue. So we're looking

598
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 11: for things like lead, barium, antimony, which are the chemical

599
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 11: components that are there. We're searching for those and their distribution.

600
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 11: Like on the hands of the dead, we'll actually look

601
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 11: at the webbing. If you'll look at the space between

602
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 11: your thumb and your index finger, that webbing right there.

603
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 11: You want to know if they've grabbed a weapon when

604
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 11: it's been discharge. You also, if you have a perpetrator,

605
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 11: you'll look at their hands and you'll swap that quickly

606
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 11: before they have a chance to clean their hands. So

607
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 11: probably what we deal with the most and the morgue

608
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 11: is going to be range of fire, because if we

609
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 11: can get an idea about range of fire, Like, how.

610
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 7: Do any of you.

611
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 11: Guys know what the three primary categories of a range

612
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 11: of fire are?

613
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 5: No, I know three categories, Like now we.

614
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 11: Get actually four, there's actually four, but we have we

615
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 11: have what's referred to as contact or press contact. You

616
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 11: think about a weapon that's actually touching the skin, okay,

617
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 11: And we have a close range, which you know, the

618
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 11: muscle of the weapon. When I say muslem, i'm talking

619
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 11: about the opening of the barrel is you know, several

620
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 11: inches away, just well a few inches away. Then we

621
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 11: have what's called intermediate, which you can get out to

622
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 11: about some people. And there's an ongoing argument here because

623
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 11: every weapon is different. Some people will say that intermediate

624
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 11: starts at eighteen inches and goes out to about thirty six.

625
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 11: And the reason they're basing that on is the unburned

626
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 11: debried that deposits on the body. And so if you

627
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 11: think about a garden hose, as a garden hose sprays

628
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 11: and kind of sprays wide, the further away you are

629
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 11: the wider that pattern. If you think about a fire,

630
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 11: I'm talking about shotguns, I'm just talking about a single

631
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 11: projectile that's traveling through the air, because it's not just

632
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 11: the projectile coming out at the end of the barrel,

633
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 11: it's all that schmutz that's inside of the barrel. If

634
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 11: somebody hasn't clean gun, you have grease that's actually in there.

635
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 11: You have unburned powder, you have dirt, and that's deposited

636
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 11: on the body. As well, so the further the spread,

637
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 11: the further the spread, the greater the distance of the

638
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 11: muzzle to where it terminates that bullet terminates and cavitates

639
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 11: the body.

640
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 7: And then.

641
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 4: From this gun on my forehead and my belly, you're

642
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 4: probably pretty far away, right, Like the spread of those

643
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 4: items can determine how far the suspect was.

644
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, you mean.

645
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 11: And obviously it's the physical relationship. So the further you

646
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 11: move away, the wider the distribution. If you get there

647
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 11: and there's no distribution, we can conclude that this is

648
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 11: an indeterminate range because once you get out past about

649
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 11: thirty six inches, all of that, I'll give you an

650
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 11: experiment to do at home. I've got homework, so you will.

651
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 11: If you will, take a little bit of talcum powder

652
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 11: and put it in your hand and go to your bathroom. Okay,

653
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 11: go to your bathroom. Don't do it in the dark.

654
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 11: To turn on the lights. Look at the mirror. Okay,

655
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 11: look at the mirror and take take that talcum powder

656
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 11: and stand about two inches away from your mirror. It

657
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 11: doesn't take a lot blow on it like that, and

658
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 11: you'll see that pattern kind of deposit on surface. Now

659
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 11: back up another twelve inches, do it again and then

660
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 11: gets far away from the mirror and do it one

661
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 11: more time. And what happens is the powder itself is

662
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 11: not very aerodynamic. It just kind of floats like snow

663
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 11: to the ground. But the projectile, the lead core projectiles

664
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 11: traveling through the air and it strikes. And so you know,

665
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 11: like with President Kennedy, when we think about his assassination,

666
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 11: that was an indeterminate range. But what you could see

667
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 11: on President Kennedy's entrance wound is there is a little

668
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 11: ring around the entrance wound and it's a friction twist

669
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 11: that happens on the skin. It's kind of like if

670
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 11: you've ever had a brother and a sister or a

671
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 11: brother's sister they grabbed your wrist and they twisted them

672
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 11: in two different directions like that and friction burn that

673
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 11: you get right there. The skin is being torqued. So

674
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 11: the projectile, by virtue is the rifling is spinning at

675
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 11: a high rate of speed. It twists the skin. But

676
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 11: that's the only marker you have. You can't judge distance

677
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 11: with that, and so kind of a fascinating thing. And

678
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 11: I guess you know, when we're looking at this as well,

679
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 11: we begin to think about, well, where was the shooter

680
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 11: in relation to the victim, And this is kind of

681
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 11: hard to do sometimes, so we begin to hear you

682
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 11: hear us, You hear us doing things like pulling trajectories.

683
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 11: They'll say that term where that we come out with

684
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 11: our little laser lights, and in the morgue we actually

685
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 11: use we actually use uh trajectory rods where we'll take

686
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 11: these rods and we will place them into the projectile

687
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 11: defects and gently place them in there. And I've seen

688
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 11: I've seen bodies.

689
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 7: So bullet ridden.

690
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 11: You said, I wasn't going to use that term projectile ridden.

691
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 11: Where we put in uh, we will actually put in

692
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 11: uh trajectory rods into the body. The body will look

693
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 11: like a porcupine because there's so many details where it's

694
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 11: kind of sticking out, and you get an you get

695
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 11: an appreciation because shooting doesn't just happen in a vacuum.

696
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 11: You know, people don't stand still from one another, and

697
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 11: so they can twist, they can turn, you can there's

698
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 11: multiple axes that your body turns on the perpetrator is turning,

699
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 11: and yet it happens in the twinkling of an eye.

700
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 11: But you have this real dynamic event. So we're trying

701
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 11: to understand after the fact and the more what is

702
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 11: the body going to tell us? Is it from above

703
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 11: to below, is it from less to right, is it

704
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 11: from front to back? You know those sort of things.

705
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 11: And with that scientific information, you can blow somebody's alibi.

706
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 3: Oh interesting.

707
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 5: Listen if you're just joining us here, we are with

708
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 5: e forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and we are learning

709
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 5: about gunshot wounds and what can be found out. If

710
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 5: you have any questions for Joseph, give us a call

711
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 5: eighty to eighty three to one Crime. So Joseph, on

712
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 5: on that topic, can you tell if someone indeed does

713
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 5: have multiple gunshot wounds? Are you able to tell which

714
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 5: can first?

715
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 3: Second? Third?

716
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 11: Now see how quickly?

717
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 3: Okay?

718
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, no, no no, and even with stab wounds, I.

719
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 7: Would okay, this is this is what I would say.

720
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 11: If anybody tells you, they can tell you that they're

721
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 11: lying because they're not there to see it. Now, there

722
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 11: are certain unique circumstances.

723
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 7: Okay.

724
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 11: If you might have an eyewitness said they saw a

725
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 11: fine pink miss you know, emanate from somebody's head after

726
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 11: they heard the first report of a weapon and then

727
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 11: they're shot multiple other times. Maybe you can draw that

728
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 11: can clue. However, if you're just looking at a body

729
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 11: in the morgue and the body arives, you have the

730
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 11: body laid out on the table, you've got multiple defects

731
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 11: in the body, you understand. I use that term too.

732
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 11: I don't say gunshot wound most of the time because

733
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 11: do you know that there are things out there that

734
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 11: I've encountered that actually imitates so called gunshot wounds. We

735
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 11: had a problem with the homeless population in Atlanta for

736
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 11: a long time where they were breaking off pieces of

737
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 11: rebar and they would wrap they would wrap duct tape

738
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 11: around one end of it to create a handle, and

739
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 11: they would file the tip of the rebar down and

740
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 11: use it as like a shank or a shie and

741
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 11: put multiple holes in a body and guess what they

742
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 11: look like that the person had been shot multiple times

743
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 11: because they're perfectly circular, and all gunshot wounds are not

744
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 11: perfectly circular. Again, that goes back to the position that

745
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 11: you're in. You can get these kind that are kind

746
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 11: of a liptoid in shape. You can have what are

747
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 11: called keyhole injuries where the projectile will pass through an

748
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 11: intermediate target kind of flip on its end and hit

749
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 11: the person broadside almost And you know, you see all

750
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 11: manner of things when it comes that you can get

751
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 11: fragmented gunshot wounds where you have or defects where it'll

752
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 11: pass through an intermediate target like a piece of glass

753
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 11: or a piece of wood. And now you're not just

754
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 11: dealing with one solid projectile. You've got these little satellites

755
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 11: that blast off of a off of a projectile, a

756
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 11: single projectile, and it's launching towards the body. And we

757
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 11: haven't even talked about shotguns. You know, shotguns are a

758
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 11: completely different category. They're not rifled, they're smooth bore, and

759
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 11: shotguns are harder to track down because they don't have

760
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 11: the ballistic fingerprint on them that a standard projectile would.

761
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 11: And so they're they're much they are. Yeah, and again

762
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 11: they come in multiple different types of of of of platforms.

763
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 11: You can get bird shot, which is like I said,

764
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 11: with small gun small game. Then you've got bug shot,

765
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 11: which is used to shoot bucks with and each here's

766
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 11: something interesting with buckshot. Buckshot dependent upon the gauge of

767
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 11: the of the round or the caliber. Caliber is kind

768
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 11: of a weird word to use with buckshot rounds, But

769
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 11: did you know that you can have a round of

770
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 11: buck shots that's loaded with say nine projectiles. That's the

771
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 11: equivalent of getting shot a single time with nine to

772
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 11: thirty two caliber round. That's why it's so deadly because

773
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 11: it creates multiple, multiple defects in the body. Can you

774
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 11: imagine being a trauma surgeon and you've got somebody who's

775
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 11: been blasted one time with shotgun with buckshot, and you've

776
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 11: got multiple tracks and they're having to do microsurgery to

777
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 11: top all these vessels and repair organs. That's why shotguns

778
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 11: can be very devastating.

779
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 6: Imagine right, There was a difference I was saying earlier,

780
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 6: like what would be the one misconception? Like I watched

781
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 6: a lot of films and TV shows, Like, what's the

782
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 6: one misconception that people have from you know, television shows

783
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: and movies about gunshot moons? Is there something that.

784
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 11: That everybody that everybody dies instantaneously? I think that's one

785
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 11: of the things. And if they how quickly they die

786
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 11: is depended upon depended upon the anatomical location of around

787
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 11: If they're shot in the head, there's a high probability

788
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 11: they're going to drop. One of the graphic gunshot wound

789
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 11: things that's ever been put on film. Is there's one

790
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 11: scene in Saving Private RD, and it's not in the

791
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 11: beach landing. This is where I can't remember this kid's

792
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 11: name that played the role. He plays the medic and

793
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 11: he is gut shot. He shot in the liver and

794
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 11: he says the blood is dark, which is actually kind

795
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 11: of accurate, and he lingers. They have to give him morphine.

796
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 11: And he shot a single Tom in the abdomen and

797
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 11: he lingered forward Tom and that was where the mouths

798
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 11: are around and.

799
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Joseph, thank you, thank you so much

800
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 5: for joining us. As always, anyone who wants more of

801
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 5: Professor Joseph Scott Morgan can find him on his incredible

802
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 5: podcast Body Bags and stick with us after the breaks

803
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 5: lest Revus David Updates.

804
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

805
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. We hope you had a

806
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: fantastic Thanksgiving weekend and we want to make sure that

807
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: you are prepped for your week ahead. I'm Stephanieleidecker here

808
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Boddy Movin. Hey, Big thanks to

809
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan for joining us in the last hour.

810
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: We always love his Crime Lab and if you've missed

811
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 2: any of the show, it is no problem at all.

812
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 3: You could always catch us right after as.

813
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: A podcast, So please listen up and we want to

814
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: hear from you as well. Eight eight eight three one

815
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: Crime More stories to get to, ladies. So, first off,

816
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: Anna Kepner, the eighteen year old who lost her love

817
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: lost her life while a board a cruise ship. She

818
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: was cruising with her family, and her family really wants

819
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: answers Courtney take it away.

820
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we've been hearing a lot about this eighteen

821
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 5: year old deceased victim, Anna Kepner, and her father and

822
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 5: aunt have spoken out after Anna was indeed found dead

823
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 5: aboard a Carnival cruise ship. So Anna Kepner's sixteen year

824
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 5: old step brother is being investigated as a potential suspect

825
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 5: in her death. So eighteen year old victim Anna Kepner,

826
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 5: She is from Titusville, Florida, and was discovered under a

827
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 5: bed aboard the Carnival Horizon ship on November seventh. And

828
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 5: if you recall Anna Kepner, her deceased body was also

829
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 5: found under several life vests, and I believe a blanket.

830
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 5: The victims death certificate sites that mechanical asphyxiation by other

831
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 5: persons is the cause of death, so that gives us

832
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 5: some indication of what went on. So victim Anna Kepner,

833
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 5: she had been traveling on this cruise with her father,

834
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 5: her stepmother, her siblings, step siblings, as well as paternal grandparents.

835
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 5: And in her room she was sharing that with her

836
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 5: sixteen year old step brother, the suspect, as well as

837
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 5: her biological brother, who was I believe fourteen.

838
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 3: So that is the what happened.

839
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: And I really hope this is not true that this

840
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 2: stepbrother is the guy.

841
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 4: I don't know what else it could be, though, I mean,

842
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 4: they were It's reported right Courtney, that her biological brother

843
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 4: and her stepbrother were in the room with her, and

844
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 4: then the biological brother left the room to go. I

845
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 4: think he went to go take pictures of the ship

846
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: and whatnot. And when he came and all three of

847
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 4: them in the room when he left. When he came back,

848
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 4: Anna was not there. He reported that he thought she

849
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 4: had just left the room, but she wasn't there. And

850
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 4: when they woke up in the morning she been missing

851
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 4: and that's when they found her. So the only thing

852
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 4: that could have happened was the stepbrother.

853
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 6: Right, is that?

854
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 8: Yes? So?

855
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 4: And there's no surveillance of anybody else going into that room.

856
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: Got it correct?

857
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 5: So, in fact, victim Anna Kaepner's father, Christopher Christopher Kaepner said,

858
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 5: I cannot say that he referencing Anna's sixteen year old

859
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 5: stepbrother the suspect, I cannot say that he is responsible,

860
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 5: but I can't decline he was the only one that

861
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 5: was in the room. And the FBI has an ongoing

862
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 5: investigation into which they will have to provide the evidence

863
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 5: to say he did do this or did.

864
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 3: Not do this.

865
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 5: So that is recently what victim Ana Kaepner's father, Christopher

866
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 5: Kepner said. He also stated, I want him again, referring

867
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 5: to the victim sixteen year old stepbrother, I want him

868
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 5: to face the consequences. I will be fighting to make

869
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 5: sure that does happen. Additionally, victim Anna Kaepner's aunt named

870
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 5: Crystal Right, of course, she's grief stricken and she is

871
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 5: terribly frustrated, and she said, I know Anna fought. I

872
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 5: know she fought for her life, and the victim's aunt, Crystal,

873
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 5: has also questioned why the sixteen year old step son

874
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 5: has not yet been charged.

875
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 4: I mean, what a.

876
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: Mess, And isn't it possible?

877
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: I mean, there were reports early on about the sixteen

878
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 2: year old step brother that he was hysterical, and that

879
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: mem who was Anna Kepner's grandmother, Mema was kind of

880
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: present for some of that questioning, and that, you know,

881
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: the sixteen year old was such a mess.

882
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 3: And again I'm just.

883
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: Devil's advocate here. Yeah, sure, is it possible that? Well,

884
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: first of all, is it possible that somebody else entered

885
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: the room at some point? I know there's cameras. I

886
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: would have to assume that's being covered. Is it also

887
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 2: possible that, you know, maybe Anna hit her head and

888
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 2: you know, maybe they were like, you know, play fighting

889
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: or something and something happened and she kicks her head

890
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: or something goes down and she dies.

891
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 3: He panics.

892
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he's sixteen years old, he has no frontal

893
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: lobes that have been fully developed yet not to make

894
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: an excuse, and rather than asking for help, he like

895
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: panics and shoves her under the bed. I know there's

896
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: no good answer here, but where is he right now?

897
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: He's not even in custody.

898
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: So there's all these accusations being thrown around about a

899
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: sixteen year old boy, I mean justifiably. So, I mean

900
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 2: I'm just again playing both sides here. He's not even

901
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: in custody, Like what is happening? Like his where is he?

902
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: And can you imagine what is going on in the

903
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 2: beehive of that family over Thanksgiving?

904
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 3: Are they just waiting for an arrest? You know, their mourning?

905
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: Their daughter, Anna Kepner, has a mother that was not

906
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: allowed to go to the funeral and had to show

907
00:52:58,719 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: up in a disguise.

908
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 4: She found out that her daughter di via Google online.

909
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 6: You have to find it that way.

910
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 4: The internal working family of just I was just going to.

911
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 6: Say, Steph, to your point that I did think early

912
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 6: on it could have been an accident, but didn't they

913
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 6: say it was expeciation, So it might have been a

914
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 6: bruise on the head. But they could have been playing around.

915
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 6: It could have been an accident, you know, I don't know.

916
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 2: It seemed like, you know, the motion that Mema made,

917
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 2: Not that Mema is the lead investigator, but Mima is

918
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: the grandmother of Anna Keepner, her birth grandmother who kind

919
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: of like showed it, like you.

920
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 3: Know, when you put somebody in a headlock.

921
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: You know, if you're like, oh you better stop it,

922
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: I'll put you in a headlock. And boys, we'll be

923
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: boys air quotes. And you know, maybe the sixteen year

924
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: old got a little carried away and was stronger than

925
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: he thought, or she was well, you know, screaming or something.

926
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not making an excuse, but.

927
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 4: The ex boyfriend of Anna told reporters that he talked

928
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 4: to the biological brother, and again this has been reported,

929
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 4: but this is, you know, allegedly, and the biological brother

930
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 4: heard like shouting and furniture being moved around and whatnot

931
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 4: when he was like outside the door.

932
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 3: Maybe they were rough housing.

933
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, maybe I don't know.

934
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 5: Well, Victim Anna Kapner's father, he consistent with Anna Kapner's grandparents.

935
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: By the way.

936
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 5: He has described the sixteen year old suspect and step

937
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 5: son as being just a normal kid and is just

938
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 5: really in disbelief. So I just say, that's what we have,

939
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 5: Like there are no accounts except for Anna's ex boyfriend,

940
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 5: But again, I who knows, you know, but you would

941
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 5: have thought you would have heard more accusations from classmates,

942
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 5: et cetera.

943
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 3: Of like, yeah, this kid was always.

944
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: A little off right, but you know, we have the

945
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: thing has come out, and you know, we all know

946
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: that people love to come out of the woodwork when

947
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: they can jump in on a story.

948
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 3: You know, the kid's sixteen years old? Is that tenth grade?

949
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 3: Eleventh grade?

950
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 2: I kind of it rips my heart out for Anna

951
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 2: and her family.

952
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 3: They're suffering so deeply.

953
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 2: And now this kid must be you know, I have

954
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: a hard time believing he had contentionally killed her.

955
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 4: It might have in an accident. I just know how

956
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 4: you accidentally strangle somebody.

957
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 3: I mean, but I do you.

958
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 6: Know, wrestling around?

959
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean it takes a long time to

960
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 4: do that that way.

961
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just I'm

962
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: not making excuses for this.

963
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 4: I don't know.

964
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: I wanted to knock at this family photo and I'm like,

965
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 2: I talk about a lousy holiday for them. I mean,

966
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: we all have our stuff, right, Everybody's like, oh, that

967
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: is that that the era? Well, the holidays, And then

968
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: you think, you know how difficult it is for really

969
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: difficult it is for that family right now, for all involved,

970
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 2: including the step family, and what a mess their marriage.

971
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 2: What a mess that is? Now dad, step mom? Now

972
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: it's her son. And what do you do in that situation?

973
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 2: You stick with your kid. You probably have to stand

974
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: by your child, no matter I would imagine, doesn't probably

975
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 2: stand well with your with the husbandouse. Yeah, whose daughter

976
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: is dead, that's a horrifying question. But what do you

977
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,760
Speaker 2: do in those situations?

978
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 9: Oh?

979
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, feeling blessed to not be in any pat of

980
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 5: similar situation broke as it is, it's horrible and so

981
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 5: many ends. Well, listen, we've been talking about eighteen year

982
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 5: old Anna Keepner who died on a cruise ship. And

983
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 5: we'd love to hear your thoughts in an a three

984
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 5: to one crime. And in the meantime, body, what's up next?

985
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 4: So a grand jury in Los Angeles has heard evidence

986
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 4: in the case involving the death of fourteen year old

987
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 4: Celeste Revas Hernandez, whose remains are found September eighth, almost

988
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 4: four months ago. Now, you guys, almost four months?

989
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 3: Can you do that? And no actual suspect official named?

990
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 4: Right, so he remains her remains were found September eighth, Again,

991
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 4: it was almost four months ago in the front of

992
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 4: that tesla owned by pop singer David David who's twenty

993
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 4: years old. His real name is David Anthony Burt. He saw,

994
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 4: you know, his career kind of just combust right and

995
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 4: totally disrupt after his tesla was towed from the Hollywood

996
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 4: Hills where it had been abandoned near his rental property.

997
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 4: The trunk was opened three days later after a foul

998
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 4: order was noticed and they discovered poor celest revealing fourteen

999
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 4: year old Celestrievus Hernandez' remains. And there's been there's been

1000
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,439
Speaker 4: quite a bit of information that's come out. Last week,

1001
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 4: TMZ reported that the remains had been frozen right and decapitated,

1002
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 4: and then LAPD did an article with The La Times

1003
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 4: and said, no, they weren't, and then a TMZ said

1004
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 4: yes they were, and then LAPD had to They were like,

1005
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: they had to do a written statement, and in the

1006
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 4: written statement they said, no, they weren't. She was not

1007
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 4: frozen when she was discovered. That was the language they used.

1008
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 4: And then just just this weekend, Harvey, our beloved Harvey

1009
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 4: from TMZ made a video and he was like, yes

1010
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 4: they were, and not only was she frozen, but our

1011
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 4: sources at the Medical Examiner's office tell us that her

1012
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 4: fingertips were so water logged that they couldn't even do

1013
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 4: a fingerprint.

1014
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, there seems to be some discreptanivey. I don't know.

1015
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: Harvey Levin is really doubling down on this one. And

1016
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: by the way, what he's asserting is that there is

1017
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 2: some sort of an inner working conflict between the Medical

1018
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 2: Examiner's office and the LAPD. Right, and I who's to say, right,

1019
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: But it does seem like there's some sort of a

1020
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: StopGate if in fact her fingers were water logged. You know,

1021
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: that's a pretty astounding thing. And what they're suggesting is

1022
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 2: that Celeste's body was dismembered, likely in Santa Barbara, and

1023
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: that David the pop star allegedly allegedly allegedly drove to

1024
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara, whether by himself or with accomplices or someone solo,

1025
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: and that they dismembered her, put her in a body,

1026
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 2: froze her somehow, or I don't know where the freezing

1027
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 2: took place. That's a TPD, and that that would be

1028
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 2: the reason why her body wasn't sooner discovered. In the

1029
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: front which is like slang for the front trunk of

1030
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: a Tesla because you know, we just lost Joseph. We

1031
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 2: should have asked him. You know, would the freezing of

1032
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 2: a human body make it smell less quickly? It's probably

1033
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: an easier way to phrase that, but you know what

1034
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're frozen, it.

1035
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 5: Would camp it would hold a comp right for the

1036
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 5: amount of time being frozen. Absolutely, it was gone for

1037
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 5: it was you know, she was in a trunk allegedly,

1038
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 5: allegedly for a very long time.

1039
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 4: For a very long time. This this trip that you

1040
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 4: talked about to Santa Barbara, this was just revealed as

1041
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 4: well that the police say that they did confirm this

1042
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 4: trip to Santa Barbara that David took in the spring.

1043
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 4: So again, she was found in September. You know spring,

1044
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 4: let's say spring is what March or April? Yeah, okay,

1045
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 4: so yeah, that's quite some time.

1046
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: March April May, Yeah, March April May.

1047
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 4: So the District Attorney's office they presented information to the

1048
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 4: grand jury, and this is an investigative grand jury which

1049
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 4: they can subpoena witnesses, secure evidences and recommend charges. LAPD

1050
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 4: Deputy Chief Allen Hamilton sorry said accountability is coming and

1051
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 4: detectives are going to get justice for Celestrivas Hernandez. Police

1052
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 4: successfully persuaded a judge to block the Los Angeles Medical

1053
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 4: Examiner from releasing fourteen year old Celestrevas Hernandez's autopsy, which

1054
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 4: a court petition described as part of an investigation into murder.

1055
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 4: So the yeah, there's some kind of internal conflict going

1056
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 4: on in Harvey is Harvey is doubling down. So he

1057
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:08,959
Speaker 4: really is so.

1058
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 3: Like a dog with a bone, he is doubling down.

1059
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: He's doubling down.

1060
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 5: I'm very curious when the Coroner's office was saying to

1061
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 5: the Los Angeles place, hey, we do we want to

1062
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 5: release all of this because normally that's very rare to

1063
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 5: have that kind of back and forth become public. So yeah,

1064
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 5: I'm very curious to see what is the root cause

1065
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 5: of what's going on.

1066
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it's it's it is tantalizing, like

1067
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 4: the secrets that that are. I think we'll know something

1068
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 4: maybe by the end this week.

1069
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 6: I feel like I still can't get past the fact that,

1070
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 6: like why would he put the body in his own

1071
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 6: car and park it right down the street from his

1072
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 6: own house like that? That part still just never has

1073
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 6: made sense to me and if he's involved with it.

1074
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 4: But that's but this grand jury met and he's not

1075
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 4: been indicted. He's not been charged. David, by the way,

1076
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 4: who is the suspect in the murder of Celestrian Resernandez.

1077
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 4: There's been no charges, so they mustn't because the district

1078
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: attorney has to present this evidence to the grand jury

1079
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 4: and guess what, no indictment. So they must not have

1080
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 4: the evidence they need right now to get him indicted.

1081
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 6: Got it?

1082
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 7: Wow?

1083
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 3: We have to continue to talk about this, I have one.

1084
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 5: Oh, of course, yeah, absolutely, So we'll be continuing after

1085
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 5: the break, as well as talking about a beloved high

1086
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 5: school coach who has vanished into the mountains right as

1087
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 5: disturbing charges against him surfaced.

1088
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 3: Keep it here at True Crime Tonight.

1089
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

1090
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1091
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: and Body and you know, we're talking about this pop

1092
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 2: star that David, the pop star case and why there

1093
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: hasn't really been an arrest yet, particularly considering that there

1094
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: has been an investigative grand jury at play. You know,

1095
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 2: my prediction is that's going to heat up. But it's

1096
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 2: pretty upsetting for one reason and one reason specifically, if

1097
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: in fact, anybody is in the picture right now that

1098
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 2: LAPD is aware of that may have hacked up a

1099
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 2: human body fourteen years old, seventeen, you know, fourteen year

1100
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 2: old Celestrivus Hernandez and left her in a trunk, and

1101
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 2: that he is at large or she is at large,

1102
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: or they are at large. That those people are at

1103
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 2: large right now, you want to tell me that that's

1104
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 2: not a danger to society?

1105
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 4: Right?

1106
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 2: Why is there possibly not somebody that has been brought

1107
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 2: into custody at this point?

1108
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 5: I mean it sounds like given the fact that the

1109
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 5: information and evidence that exist was presented to a criminal

1110
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 5: grand jury and said what you got isn't good enough.

1111
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 5: I think that's our answer. I think that's the answer.

1112
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 5: They don't have They don't have enough to arrest somebody.

1113
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 5: So it's a dangerous shore.

1114
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 3: But what are you going to just.

1115
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 5: Pick people off the street and to make people feel

1116
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 5: better and say.

1117
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: Someone I just find it so hard to believe that

1118
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 2: a young woman who has found in a car, who's

1119
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 2: been dismembered, that there's not enough information on her human

1120
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: body that could actually lead to some real investigative responses

1121
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: at this point, it's just not like this was as

1122
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: messy as it gets.

1123
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we don't know that she was dismembered. Let's

1124
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 4: we don't know that, correct, There's the information on that

1125
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 4: is is sketchy. Let's just say that like some one

1126
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 4: person says she was, another person says she wasn't. You

1127
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 4: know what I mean. The LAPD have said no, she wasn't,

1128
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 4: but they also said she wasn't frozen, and then Harvey

1129
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 4: is like, yes she was. So again, we don't know,

1130
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 4: we don't know, and we don't know what we don't

1131
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 4: know either.

1132
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 5: The coroner has correct me if I'm wrong, has not

1133
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 5: spoken to any of.

1134
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 4: This specific medical examiner.

1135
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 3: The medical examiner. Excuse me, so, is this.

1136
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 6: An unusual amount of time like you guys have followed

1137
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 6: many of these cases, like this is like four months

1138
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 6: of talks? Like is that an unusual Well.

1139
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 3: No, I think the talks is all back.

1140
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 4: We just don't know what it is because we the public,

1141
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 4: it's been barred from the public getting notified about it.

1142
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 4: The judge ruled that the medical examiner has to keep

1143
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,919
Speaker 4: you know, quiet about everything when it comes to her death.

1144
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 2: Right now, it just seems like somebody at large right

1145
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 2: now that's extremely dangerous.

1146
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 3: Hills.

1147
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 4: I definitely agree, but you know, double jeopardy exists, and

1148
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 4: they can't they can't jump the gun early if they

1149
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 4: don't have the evidence right. If they do, then we're

1150
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 4: going to have, you know.

1151
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 6: Nothing more embarrassing than to bring them in in the wrong.

1152
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 4: Anything with the LA, with the Los Angeles District Attorney's

1153
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 4: history on you know, people getting off on cases and whatnot,

1154
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 4: they're probably you know, very hesitant to jump the gun.

1155
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 2: Well David didn't do it, then if they feel like

1156
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 2: he's not a suspect, then his entire world tour was

1157
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: canceled and his life has been ruined and he's been

1158
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: dragged to the press.

1159
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 3: Good luck getting that life back.

1160
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 4: I get the feeling from reading the report from the

1161
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 4: LAPD like they have like a public affairs department, and

1162
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 4: if you follow them on X, which I definitely recommend

1163
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 4: you do, I get the impression from reading the statement

1164
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 4: that they released that they really think it's David really well,

1165
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 4: just how they were talking about we will get justice

1166
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 4: for celest and it's just reading it, it just I

1167
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 4: had him in mind, And.

1168
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 2: How did I know if that's the case, that he's

1169
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: not going to bolt and completely did that of the country,

1170
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: like they let this guy wander around for months and months.

1171
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 3: Allegedly, allegedly allegedly if in fact he did.

1172
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 2: It, well, he's got the money, he's a flight risk,

1173
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 2: he has tons of cash, there's no reason to stay.

1174
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 2: It just it's it's so confusing to me. This is

1175
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 2: a confusing one.

1176
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think Jared spoke to that just a

1177
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 6: little bit, that he's just a bit too recognizable right now.

1178
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 2: And I'm sure, like, come on, if somebody wants to

1179
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: put on a disguise and slip through the cracks, I

1180
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 2: don't know. I have literally not seen any photographs of

1181
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 2: David basically anywhere. He must be living in amazement in someplace,

1182
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 2: because according to anyone, no one's seen him at Chipotle,

1183
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: no one's seen him, you know, running a quick errand

1184
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: you know, no one's seen him at the stopping shop.

1185
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: There's been literally no photographs of him anywhere.

1186
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 3: I haven't seen a single one, have you.

1187
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 5: No.

1188
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 4: I did look today, ahead, body, No, I did look today,

1189
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 4: and there has been no confirmed sightings of him.

1190
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:47,919
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1191
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 4: No, Now, I did think he went to Texas. Initially,

1192
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 4: remember his parents got yeah exactly, Oh.

1193
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

1194
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 4: And then but here's the thing I do think. I

1195
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 4: think it's possible that La told him he needs to

1196
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 4: stay put.

1197
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, La, Well no problem, there, no problem.

1198
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 3: I have unlimited resources.

1199
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 2: I've you know, allegedly murdered somebody and tossed them in

1200
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 2: a car, you know, like, I know, I don't like it.

1201
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 3: I don't like it.

1202
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: Or is that like a celebrity thing, like, oh, because

1203
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:19,879
Speaker 2: it's a celebrity, I can't imagine.

1204
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 5: No, I really don't think so. And here's where I

1205
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 5: stand is, do you feel like the twelve I believe

1206
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 5: it's twelve people gathered for a criminal grand jury would

1207
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 5: be indifferent twenty three people? Okay, so do you think

1208
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 5: twenty three people would be indifferent to this deceased in

1209
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:44,480
Speaker 5: some bad way fourteen year old girl and say blithely

1210
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 5: you don't have the evidence. I'm going to go ahead

1211
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 5: and believe that their heads and hearts were in the

1212
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 5: correct place and the investigators do not have enough evidence.

1213
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 3: Right, that's where are now. I don't need people and

1214
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: he should bail.

1215
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 2: And then if you're David, you should be on your

1216
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 2: first train into paradise because maybe maybe he is step

1217
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 2: that your life sucks, you know, everybody's all over you.

1218
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: You your nabob way right now or something maybe, And

1219
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 2: that wouldn't be illegal.

1220
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 4: No, no, it wouldn't. So, just so everybody knows, there's

1221
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,520
Speaker 4: twenty three people that sit on a grand jury, fourteen

1222
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 4: or more have to vote, you know, one way to

1223
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 4: return an indictment. So yeah, that's how that's the numbers there,

1224
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 4: So fourteen people at least have to say, yeah, there's

1225
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 4: enough here to indict. And apparently that didn't happen, so.

1226
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 2: Meaning it didn't happen, therefore it won't like so that's

1227
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: a done thing.

1228
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 3: We just don't have thought.

1229
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 2: We didn't have the answers on what the grand jury's

1230
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 2: findings were.

1231
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 4: Well, we don't have the answers. I'm assuming they didn't

1232
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 4: have enough to indict him because he's not been indicted.

1233
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 3: I just assumed that the holidays got in the way.

1234
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 4: No, that wouldn't stop this murderer indictment. Absolutely not. The

1235
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 4: holidays do not matter. Yeah, I'm listen, this is all

1236
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 4: just allegedly, allegedly allegedly, because there's men no indictment handed

1237
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 4: down and he's not in cuffs, you know, waiting for

1238
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 4: a preliminary hearing that the grand jury said, no, you

1239
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 4: don't have enough.

1240
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 2: This is all just well, wait for your lawsuit, because

1241
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 2: you've just destroyed David's life. I know the you know,

1242
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 2: it's been insinuated that it was David plus one and

1243
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 2: and and it happened outside of his house, and there

1244
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: was a private investigator who found all this new information.

1245
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 2: And you know, she was fourteen years old, so she

1246
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 2: was under age. I found it also slightly strange that

1247
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 2: if in fact there was some sort of a personal

1248
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 2: relationship that was intimate in any way.

1249
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 3: As pop star.

1250
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 2: David's friends made this suggestion that it was that why

1251
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 2: he wasn't brought in on charges for that, for solicitation

1252
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 2: of a minor or some sort of.

1253
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:52,719
Speaker 3: Just locked down.

1254
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: This investigation is going on, you know, keep him on

1255
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: a leash a little bit, if that's how it's handled

1256
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 2: from a strategy perspective, because if in fact that's accurate,

1257
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 2: he would have been you know, again, I'm not the lawyer,

1258
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 2: but something seems fishy to me. And then if listen,

1259
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: if if he's not the guy, then boy did his

1260
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 2: life get destroyed also, But.

1261
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 6: What a bad look to have a concert still going

1262
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 6: on if this is happening.

1263
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 4: You know he had nothing to do with it, He's

1264
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,799
Speaker 4: like she was found in his heart's broken.

1265
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 3: He can't just be a on a tour. Well, if

1266
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 3: he had.

1267
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 4: Nothing to do with it, he could take a moment

1268
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 4: of silence and take a few.

1269
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,759
Speaker 2: Days off to pay pay his respects and say to police,

1270
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 2: I'm here to help in any way, and I'm going

1271
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: to throw some cash at a reward and every night

1272
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to honor Celeste and sing a.

1273
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 3: Special song for her because she was such a lovely.

1274
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,719
Speaker 4: Person who was fourteen and I'm touring fourteen.

1275
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 2: It was a super fan that I was not having

1276
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 2: a sexual relationship with.

1277
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 6: I have made Yeah, I think it just would not

1278
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 6: look no to me, it just looks awful.

1279
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 2: What looks off, Well, it's you know how hard it

1280
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 2: is to get a world tour. It's not just David.

1281
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: There's so many people that were employed by this. If

1282
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 2: he had absolutely nothing to do with it, then it

1283
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,919
Speaker 2: would be a really heartbreaking thing that would really require

1284
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 2: I mean, there's many examples of world concerts where very

1285
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 2: terrible things happened that you know, ultimately the show goes

1286
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 2: on because money talks.

1287
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,639
Speaker 3: Again, I'm just giving you all sides of this. I'm

1288
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 3: not giving you this is not my personal opinion.

1289
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 2: No, I know, but you know, it's big money and

1290
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people's jobs on the line. So I

1291
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 2: think it was a pretty clear clear indicate that there

1292
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 2: was something fishy to it, because they wouldn't have caused

1293
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 2: their world tour to end. Yeah, it's an unfortunate circumstance.

1294
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: What a terrible, terrible thing. Okay, I think it's best

1295
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 2: to wait.

1296
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 4: I think it's best to wait to make sure that

1297
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 4: he's going to get indicted, and not only get indicted,

1298
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 4: but he has to get convicted after that, right, So,

1299
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 4: and I think it's best to wait to make sure

1300
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 4: that you have all your evidence lined up, everything sign

1301
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,440
Speaker 4: sealed and delivered, and then go ahead and do a prosecution.

1302
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 4: I think it would be jumping the gun. I think

1303
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 4: would be horrible. And here's the thing, though, you can

1304
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 4: indict a ham sandwich. Okay, that's like the phrase, right,

1305
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 4: you've heard that before. The fact that he wasn't, I believe,

1306
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 4: not indicted yet is concerning to me.

1307
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 3: I'll just just.

1308
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 4: Because like I said, you can indict a ham sandwich people.

1309
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 4: You know, you don't need the bar. So there's two things.

1310
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 4: You can have a preliminary hearing where evidence is presented,

1311
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 4: it's public, you know whatnot, and then there's a grand

1312
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 4: jury where it's secret. Everything is sealed, there's no transcripts,

1313
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 4: we don't get anything. A preliminary hearing, the level of

1314
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 4: evidence has to rise to a certain level in order

1315
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 4: to get indicted. Okay, the grand jury does not. And

1316
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 4: remember Brian Koberger got indicted via grand jury and it

1317
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 4: was all secret. Remember all of a sudden it was like, oh,

1318
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 4: I got he's been indicted. So the fact that he

1319
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 4: hasn't been indicted leads me to believe that they have

1320
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 4: little eens.

1321
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 5: That is what I ascertain, which does seem nuts because

1322
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 5: I can't imagine with all of the public pressure and outrage,

1323
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,519
Speaker 5: of which Stephanie, of course you are not alone and

1324
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 5: everyone's all outraged for it.

1325
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 3: But if you don't have you don't have it.

1326
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 5: What do you know?

1327
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 2: I feel outraged that David's life is ruined and his

1328
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 2: world tour was canceled if he had absolutely nothing to

1329
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 2: do with it, and they.

1330
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 3: Have, we don't know, nothing's to go on, don't that's even.

1331
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 2: More outrageous to me. Honestly, that is a slander. If

1332
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 2: something tragic happens and you had nothing to do with it,

1333
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 2: literally nothing, and there's literally no evidence. Obviously this tragedy happened.

1334
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 2: You know, she was found in his car, but he

1335
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 2: was allegedly not even in the state because he was

1336
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 2: on tour.

1337
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: If that tracks and his career has been ended.

1338
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 2: This is a young man, right, and if there there

1339
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 2: was no sexual affair or anything between them and she

1340
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 2: was just like.

1341
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 4: A superable let me ask you a question, fingering, what

1342
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 4: if they did have an affair and he still didn't

1343
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 4: have anything to do with the murder, how do you

1344
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 4: feel about that?

1345
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 2: Well, my feelings have nothing to do with it, although

1346
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 2: it seems like I'm hopped up. But I would have

1347
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 2: thought that they would have brought him in on charges

1348
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 2: for that, to hold him strategically while figuring out the

1349
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,719
Speaker 2: rest of the the evidence and waiting for the toxic college.

1350
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 4: Don't you think that it's telling that they haven't.

1351
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems that it sounds to me like this

1352
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,639
Speaker 2: guy got a really bad maybe has a bad group

1353
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 2: of friends, or you know, there was trouble from a distance,

1354
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 2: and you know his life is now completely screwed. Yeah,

1355
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 2: one way or the other, you know, and that seems unfair. Also,

1356
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 2: you know the court of public appeal. You know, in

1357
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 2: the court of public opinions aren't totally fair. His family's

1358
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: getting swatted now, all of his money's out the window.

1359
01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 3: There's nothing to fall back on.

1360
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: Anybody who ever worked on his or also out of work,

1361
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 2: let alone poor Celeste, and nobody like yeah, thanks, but

1362
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 2: no thanks. Poor Celeste. Her family is just desperate for answers.

1363
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: She's been in a trunk for three months and they

1364
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,839
Speaker 2: still can't find any evidence. Like, how is it possible

1365
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 2: that the Tesla doesn't have more information? I thought that

1366
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,680
Speaker 2: was the most important program in all the world. Like

1367
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 2: the Tesla was like could practically drive itself and brush

1368
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: your hair while you're driving.

1369
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 6: Like how.

1370
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, right right, get away with any crime?

1371
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 2: And a Tesla, based on what I know of Tesla's

1372
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 2: not that I own one.

1373
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 3: But isn't that like the thing it's like a supercomputer.

1374
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:39,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it has all these cameras and if you like,

1375
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 4: if if you just walk next to it, it records you.

1376
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,440
Speaker 4: You know, I see all these videos in my neighborhood.

1377
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 4: App you know, that's like somebody keep my car. It's like,

1378
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 4: you know, and it's always a tesla or a cyber

1379
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 4: truck or something. You know, So it's like, you know

1380
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 4: that has always cameras.

1381
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, except for Celeste. You know, it was apparently deactivated.

1382
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 4: Well I think you I think you do have to

1383
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 4: pay for it. I think you do. I think it

1384
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 4: is a service.

1385
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 6: Levels up that you could go and the higher levels

1386
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:11,719
Speaker 6: had the better.

1387
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 2: Systems, right, but still it's like, this is twenty twenty five.

1388
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:17,919
Speaker 3: It's hard to get on anything.

1389
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 2: Your blueprint, your footprint, your everything, your phone prints, your

1390
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 2: car print, I mean, come on, and blue right behind

1391
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 2: the Chateau More Months and the Hollywood fiends were there's

1392
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,440
Speaker 2: also cameras everywhere.

1393
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I know. Listen, you're you're you're preaching to

1394
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 4: the Quire and we know it's.

1395
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 3: Got worked up. I'm apologizing now. She is fired. This

1396
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:50,640
Speaker 3: sweating and sleeves are rolled up and it is it's insanity,

1397
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 3: but we just it's a it's a lack of it.

1398
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 5: I agree, it doesn't make sense, but there's there is information.

1399
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 5: We obviously don't have access to that at some point

1400
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 5: we'll explain what's going on. Because it's very strange. I

1401
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 5: will grant you that ten times over. It's strange and infuriating, but.

1402
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 4: Justice, justice for Celeste. Well, stay tuned. We've got more

1403
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 4: to dig into. We're going to get some talkbacks in

1404
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 4: and possibly cover this high school teacher stick around a

1405
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 4: true Friend tonight.

1406
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1407
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. We hope you're having an

1408
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 2: amazing Sunday, and listen, guys, it's going to be a

1409
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 2: strong week.

1410
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 3: So come on.

1411
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 2: First day back after a holiday break. Sometimes that can

1412
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 2: feel overwhelming, but I'm telling you it's going to be

1413
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 2: a good week, so let's all buckle up for it.

1414
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about David the pop star.

1415
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 2: Will there be an arrest? It sounds like no is

1416
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 2: what everybody seems to be saying. Listen, I thought that

1417
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: about Diddy too. I thought Diddy did He was getting

1418
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 2: a bad rap, and I felt like I was always

1419
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 2: defending did He until I saw that video of him

1420
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 2: beating Cassie to the ground while holding a towel with

1421
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 2: his left hand. It was hard to unsee that and

1422
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 2: it changed the whole picture, and we haven't seen that

1423
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 2: with David. So I guess this is why this case

1424
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 2: is so confusing. And of course we'll continue to follow it.

1425
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure there'll be some new developments this week. Courtney Armstrong,

1426
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 2: what else you got for us? Any other good news?

1427
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 5: Well no, I'm not going to call this good news,

1428
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 5: but it is news. So can meet you halfway there.

1429
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 5: In Virginia, authorities are actively searching for a missing high

1430
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 5: school gym teacher and football coach, Travis Turner, so he

1431
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 5: is now considered a fugitive now. The missing forty six

1432
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 5: year old Travis Turner disappeared on November twentieth. He left

1433
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 5: his home with a gun and entered what we know

1434
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 5: to be a heavily wooded mountainous area. So this coincide

1435
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 5: with the missing football coach. Travis Turner is under investigation

1436
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 5: for multiple charges. These charges include five counts of a

1437
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 5: possession of child pornography and five counts of using a

1438
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 5: computer to solicit a minor.

1439
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 3: And of course this is a high school football coach

1440
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 3: right before Thanksgiving.

1441
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, his wife, his beloved wife, is like, we just

1442
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 2: want him home safely. She's like telling out to the media. Please,

1443
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 2: if you're hearing me, come home.

1444
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 3: We love you.

1445
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 2: I mean to have somebody that devoted standing by you.

1446
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 2: He dips right before Thanksgiving or on Thanksgiving?

1447
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 3: Was it just before?

1448
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 2: These are the accusations before.

1449
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 6: He has a.

1450
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 2: Family of his own, and now their lives have been

1451
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:55,919
Speaker 2: just destroyed. These last few days just horrible.

1452
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry for them. It's very sad.

1453
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 5: And investigator had gone to the home of Travis Turner,

1454
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:04,759
Speaker 5: again now considered a fugitive.

1455
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 3: Police went there.

1456
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 5: On November twentieth to speak with Travis Turner and it

1457
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 5: was just the police allege as early parts of an

1458
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 5: investigation and that they indeed were not seeking to him

1459
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:22,120
Speaker 5: arrest him at that time. However, five days after the

1460
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:27,679
Speaker 5: missing football coach vanished, authorities announced those ten warrants again,

1461
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 5: five of possession of chob pornography, five of using a

1462
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 5: computer to solicit a minor. Which is so scary, Stephanie, Yeah,

1463
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 5: to your point. The missing coach, Travis Turner's wife, Leslie Turner,

1464
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 5: she as soon as the twenty four hours were up,

1465
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 5: she contacts police, says she was missing, and she's spoken out.

1466
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 5: After the charges were filed and said that none of

1467
01:21:56,080 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 5: the allegations are true, that Travis Turner is a good father,

1468
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 5: a good husband. She wants him home. She knows nothing.

1469
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 5: She repeated that several times. She doesn't know anything.

1470
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 2: Thing, and he has kids, like for these poor children too,

1471
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 2: and for the victims of this. If this is actually

1472
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 2: true and he's soliciting minors.

1473
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 3: Interesting, So I had been told that he was tipped.

1474
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 2: Off that the police were coming to arrest him, and

1475
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 2: that's why he dipped.

1476
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 5: Oh, that may well be the case that tracks yeah, well,

1477
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 5: and we know that the police had come to his

1478
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 5: house before he left anyway, so I don't think it

1479
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 5: was for tea. They did come to ask him, probably

1480
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 5: some very uncomfortable question even though it was so I

1481
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 5: don't know if a third party tipped him off. They

1482
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 5: may well have, but that would put my back up

1483
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 5: if police came to my home to.

1484
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:52,600
Speaker 3: Have a chat.

1485
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 2: Well, but you know, not to get too secretly lost

1486
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 2: in the sauce here. But it was five days prior

1487
01:22:57,439 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 2: to his disappearance that the police go and they do

1488
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 2: a you know, a general talk to and a little

1489
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: dry by if you will. So now he's tipped off

1490
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,600
Speaker 2: and freaked out. But that's not when he dips. He

1491
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 2: waits five full days and then just like rolls out

1492
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,600
Speaker 2: into the woods, I think, wearing very little clothes, like

1493
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 2: he wasn't dressed for the wilderness. He was just wearing

1494
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 2: street clothes and carrying a gun. So that implies two things.

1495
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 2: Either he's going out because he's just going to make

1496
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,599
Speaker 2: a run for it and is you know, an active

1497
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 2: man and can pull that off, or god forbid, is

1498
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,799
Speaker 2: going to take his own life, or is just running

1499
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 2: scared because he got tipped off. Like if he was

1500
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 2: going to be very strategic about it, he would have

1501
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:40,640
Speaker 2: left pretty much right after the police went to his

1502
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 2: house and packed a bag.

1503
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 5: Well, my understanding is that it was again on November

1504
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,280
Speaker 5: twentieth that the police went to his home. It was

1505
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 5: also on November twentieth that he went missing, So it

1506
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 5: was that same oh for him what saying like that,

1507
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 5: So what I may have been confusing about is that

1508
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 5: it was a five days after that fact that then

1509
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 5: the allegations came out, right, the charge you went.

1510
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 4: Missing on the twentieth, and then on the twenty fifth

1511
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,479
Speaker 4: the police said, oh there's ten there's ten charges now

1512
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 4: for this guy.

1513
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 3: Even though he's missing.

1514
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 6: But on the twentieth is when the police came.

1515
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 3: As well, right, and when he disappeared.

1516
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,639
Speaker 6: And when he disappeared, So it wasn't so the.

1517
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 4: Police come to his house, you know, hey, what's up

1518
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,440
Speaker 4: with you? You know, the first initial visit, he disappears immediately,

1519
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 4: like immediately, which is very suss to me, Like, if

1520
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 4: you're innocent of something, just my opinion, This is just

1521
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 4: my opinion. If you're innocent of something, you don't run

1522
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 4: off into the woods with the gun immediately.

1523
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course don't.

1524
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to stand and defend your name, and yeah,

1525
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:51,680
Speaker 2: defend yourself, my family and children and life, right to

1526
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 2: live for and yeah, you're a pillar of society.

1527
01:24:55,120 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 3: You're a teacher. So yeah, that's very disturbing, very.

1528
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 5: I'm sure we will be following this very closely as

1529
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 5: it unfolds, and just for anyone who might be there.

1530
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:15,839
Speaker 5: Big Stone Gap, Virginia is the town where missing football

1531
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 5: coach Travis Turner went missing from town Appalachi. It's got

1532
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 5: about five thousand residents. He was last seen wearing a

1533
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 5: gray sweatshirt, sweatpants, and glasses. This is according to the

1534
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 5: state's Missing person database and again he is considered a fugitive.

1535
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 3: So more on this to come as it evolves.

1536
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 5: And if you want to weigh in on this missing coach,

1537
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 5: Travis Turner, we want to hear from you, hit us

1538
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 5: on the talkbacks. And speaking of talkbacks, let's go ahead

1539
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 5: and listen to one.

1540
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 12: Hi to your crime tonight. This is Sarah from Michigan,

1541
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 12: and I just wanted to thank you for your Thanksgiving episode.

1542
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 6: I was just.

1543
01:25:55,160 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 12: Listening to it and the Andrew Phillips segment is just

1544
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 12: monumentally important and it gave me chills along with you guys.

1545
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 12: I really appreciate you having him on and everything that

1546
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 12: everyone's doing. But that was a great, great, great segment.

1547
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, I still think about I mean, yeah, I

1548
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,719
Speaker 13: thought that was a really good segment and a really

1549
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 13: good program.

1550
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 4: The writers, the prisoner writers.

1551
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 6: Right, it was just the prison.

1552
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 4: And you know, getting to speak with him, and he

1553
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 4: was just so proud, you know that he was able

1554
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 4: to like he was working in a play as a

1555
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:44,600
Speaker 4: player atouse.

1556
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 3: So wonderful.

1557
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:47,759
Speaker 6: He's already something.

1558
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, imagine being in jail for like twenty years and

1559
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 4: you come out and there's all this new tech, you know,

1560
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 4: and he's having to deal with a saone and like

1561
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 4: it's like I don't know what I'm doing and I

1562
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 4: don't know. I was really proud of him, and I

1563
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 4: hope he'spired.

1564
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 6: It was nice to hear like how he's turned his

1565
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 6: life around and he's doing something positive. But also like

1566
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 6: just just he was soul and he was so wonderful

1567
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 6: the redemption factor, but just just to hear that, like

1568
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:17,679
Speaker 6: there were little things that I took away to where

1569
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 6: he was saying that it was his only form of

1570
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,479
Speaker 6: communicating with people on the outside and some of these

1571
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 6: inmates don't have that. So it just it gave you

1572
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 6: for Thanksgiving Day. It was just such a warm and

1573
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 6: fuzzy feeling, like it just made you feel good hearing

1574
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,639
Speaker 6: all of that. And I don't know if everyone remembers.

1575
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 6: The other half of that episode was the US Marshals.

1576
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 6: We had William's raucous brocus. He was so good and

1577
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 6: I still think about the whole twenty one Jump Street moment.

1578
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 4: He was so serious. Ye twenty one Jump Street and

1579
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 4: he was so serious and we were like, ye, anyway.

1580
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 6: Serious job.

1581
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:53,599
Speaker 9: No.

1582
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 3: I have thought about this.

1583
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 2: It's not because necessarily he's serious, because I could tell.

1584
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:58,759
Speaker 3: He had a wicked sense of humor.

1585
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: Oh he does, because he's like undercover all the time.

1586
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,679
Speaker 2: He gives you nothing in terms of a viable cue,

1587
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 2: like we're so expressive, like I couldn't play poker if

1588
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 2: my life depended on it, you know, and was like.

1589
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 3: Who has a secret. I'm like, you know, it's like.

1590
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 2: Written all over my face, you know, he is. I

1591
01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 2: think we're all kind of that way. Well, Court, you

1592
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 2: can hold it pretty toughly, but like he just if

1593
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 2: you give no reactions, no nonverbal cues, and even whether

1594
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:32,719
Speaker 2: it's a giggle or something aggressive, nothing, then there's nothing

1595
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,400
Speaker 2: to read. And that just becomes sort of your way

1596
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 2: of in high school when you're a full blown adult.

1597
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 6: That was crazy or then even at one point he

1598
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 6: was saying like he had to I guess for those

1599
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 6: not who didn't follow along. He was a US Marshall

1600
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:50,679
Speaker 6: and he had to go undercover when he was younger,

1601
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 6: and at one point he was trying to in high

1602
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 6: school he was doing a drug bust and he actually

1603
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 6: do you guys remember he had to actually take care

1604
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 6: to take the drugs. He took the drugs. I'm like,

1605
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 6: how do you not like I would anything the bus.

1606
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 3: The bus didn't happen because he was too high.

1607
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1608
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also like solved the Andrew Kunanan case for

1609
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:12,759
Speaker 2: Sachi's murder.

1610
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 3: I did he say sniper too?

1611
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 6: The guy?

1612
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, really wildly interesting and he was brilliant so interesting.

1613
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really enjoyed him, even though he didn't give

1614
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 4: us much in terms of his giggles. But that's okay

1615
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 4: because I was very impressed with professionally.

1616
01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 3: But that's why.

1617
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're trained seals probably give you nothing

1618
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:37,519
Speaker 2: to intentionally because I agree there's nothing to pick up on.

1619
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 3: There's no micro expression too to pick up on.

1620
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know I would be the worst. I can

1621
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 6: tell you right now. They walk you would be the worst.

1622
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 2: You and I together in high school with the disastrous.

1623
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 6: They walk in with a drill. I'm like.

1624
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:57,440
Speaker 3: I was undercover.

1625
01:29:57,800 --> 01:29:59,919
Speaker 4: Could you guys imagine Taha being interrogate.

1626
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 6: I would be the one that screams the loudest out

1627
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 6: of everyone in this group. I can promise you that.

1628
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:13,839
Speaker 6: So and then pitched probably, but it's so funny. Sadly

1629
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 6: had any more fun talkbacks because I like seeing everyone laugh.

1630
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 6: At the end of our Thanksgiving holiday and what do

1631
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 6: we got going on tonight.

1632
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 12: I just think it's funny that Andrew Phillips just got

1633
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 12: released and is reacclimating to the regular world with tech technology,

1634
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 12: and you guys put him on the spot live on

1635
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 12: the radio on Boom or something, and I just think,

1636
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,560
Speaker 12: you know, you put him up to a challenge. He

1637
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 12: did really good.

1638
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 5: Ah, he did better than I do on most days.

1639
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 6: And yeah, he's referring to it. At one point during

1640
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 6: the yes little.

1641
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,599
Speaker 4: Text he disconnected and reconnected.

1642
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 6: Figured out how and I think he even complained about

1643
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 6: the tech service he did. Imagine, please, we've been out

1644
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:08,720
Speaker 6: free and I still struggle with it.

1645
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did really well. I was impressed with his

1646
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 4: ability to overcome that the technical issue that he did have.

1647
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 9: So but yeah, listen, did you lention Sorry to interrupt you, please,

1648
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 9: but you know, imagine I don't remember how long he

1649
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 9: was in for, but imagine you're in from you know,

1650
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 9: nineteen sixty to nineteen eighty or something compared to two

1651
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,120
Speaker 9: thousand and five twenty twenty five.

1652
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 3: It's, oh my god.

1653
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 4: I know, it's a crazy coma to come out of

1654
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 4: it is, Yes, I mean ament.

1655
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Since five years.

1656
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 6: I don't think all of us use zoom in the

1657
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 6: same way for you.

1658
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 4: Well, even the machine at McDonald's. You guys like little things, right,

1659
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 4: the coke machine at McDonald's. It's like a robot.

1660
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:50,280
Speaker 8: Right.

1661
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:51,479
Speaker 6: I don't like it.

1662
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 3: I can't hate it. It actually ruins McDonald's. So does

1663
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 3: sas for me? And why do I have to self

1664
01:31:57,560 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 3: serve so much?

1665
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 2: Like the waiting in line and then I get in

1666
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 2: another line. It's like the movie theater kind of ruins

1667
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 2: it too, with all the self serves and the sodas

1668
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 2: and the butter.

1669
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 3: It's like, what a mess.

1670
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 2: It's like a full crime scene by the time I

1671
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 2: get to my seat, and it's for you know what

1672
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it is but cock, you gotta get the dampkins.

1673
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 3: They're under your thing. The butter's all over you. Your

1674
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 3: SODA's spilt.

1675
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1676
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 5: I went to actually the movies on Friday. We saw

1677
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 5: The Knives Out.

1678
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 6: Oh, I saw that.

1679
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 7: That was good.

1680
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 5: It was very darling. I loved it. Daniel Craig's amazing.

1681
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 5: But the place I went to has a Pink's Hot

1682
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 5: Dogs and so just yeah, when you're talking Stephanie, So

1683
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 5: by the time you know, lights came on, I had

1684
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 5: like the mustard the chili at the cheese from the.

1685
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 3: Hotway, because you know, it's just they don't give you

1686
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 3: a tray. You know, you have that a little squear

1687
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 3: about you if you're smart enough to ask for the

1688
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:51,440
Speaker 3: brown box.

1689
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:53,719
Speaker 2: You know, like then it's like doesn't hold anything.

1690
01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 4: It seems to be the only place that delivered. Do

1691
01:32:56,240 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 4: you guys remember when Pink's delivered and it was like

1692
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 4: it was like the first like Uber eats kind of

1693
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 4: pink dots, right, yeah, pink Dot. Pink dots different than

1694
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:10,800
Speaker 4: pink No, you're totally right.

1695
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:12,599
Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm with.

1696
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 2: You, though I knew, I can't remember, and pink Dot

1697
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:16,560
Speaker 2: was the first.

1698
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 3: Pint was like one of the first ones.

1699
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 4: I don't know why, but pink hot dogs are really good.

1700
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:24,439
Speaker 6: Okay, I just want to my bed.

1701
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 5: Yeah there for anyone who doesn't know, they're in La

1702
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 5: staple Icon been around for a long time, one hundred

1703
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 5: years or something something.

1704
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 4: I don't know, a long time staple, but I got

1705
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 4: them confused. Pink Dot is like a convenience store, right,

1706
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 4: they have like a little it's like a little seven

1707
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,600
Speaker 4: eleven type situation and they used to deliver I was

1708
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 4: like so impressed by that. Back in the day, I

1709
01:33:43,320 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 4: remember being.

1710
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:46,560
Speaker 3: Like, oh pink, same delivery.

1711
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 4: Now it's like whatever you know, but anyway I thought

1712
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 4: the music it's already over.

1713
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for spending your Sunday night with us.

1714
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 2: We're going to start this week strong. Monday, we have

1715
01:33:57,240 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 2: a big show. Luigi Mangioni is back in court and

1716
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:02,440
Speaker 2: he wants lots of things.

1717
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 3: Left out of the case.

1718
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 2: So more on that to come. Listen Monday, let's do this.

1719
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 2: Have a great night, everybody.

1720
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:10,560
Speaker 3: Goodness