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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five.

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Speaker 2: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, trust Me. I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 3: never lied to you. If you think that.

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Speaker 1: One person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 1: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abuse of

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Speaker 1: power from two Santa's Helpers who've actually experienced it. I

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Speaker 1: am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth, and today is

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Speaker 1: part two of our interview with the wonderful Bob Niguard,

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Speaker 1: private investigator who's best known for taking down fraudulent psychics.

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Speaker 1: So in this episode, we'll hear more about Bob's experiences.

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Speaker 1: We'll discuss how cult leaders tend to be men but

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Speaker 1: psychics tend to be women, and we'll hear more about

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Speaker 1: the prolific scammer Gina Marx hmm.

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Speaker 2: We'll also talk about the extent so it psychic fraud

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Speaker 2: is organized crime. The difference between cold and readings and

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Speaker 2: the common things psychics will say to lure you in.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, and also today's episode is sponsored by apparently a

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Speaker 1: big fan of the show, Alyssa.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy the gift that Josh had to

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Speaker 1: send to you and sign for you. So Merry Christmas

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Speaker 1: and Happy New Year to you both. Thank you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Wow amazing.

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Speaker 5: I know that was really cool.

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Speaker 1: Anyone listens to us enough to want to shout out

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 4: I'm so grateful, thank y'all.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so before we dig in with Bob again, Megan,

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Speaker 1: do you have a cultist thing this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, Lila, we were discussing before we started

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Speaker 2: recording just we might have talked about Christmas being culty

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Speaker 2: last year as well, but I'm here to talk about

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Speaker 2: it again this year because last year I didn't join

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Speaker 2: the cult of Christmas.

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Speaker 5: My family, as I've said.

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Speaker 2: Before, so religious that they say Christmas is rude to Jesus,

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Speaker 2: so we didn't celebrate it because it's commercial and materialistic

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Speaker 2: and all that shit. This year, I'm fully in Christmas.

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Speaker 2: I made everybody make their own decorations. I have like

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Speaker 2: weird popcorn things hanging from the tree. It's my first tree.

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Speaker 2: We are taking it really seriously. I have Christmas lights

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Speaker 2: and like little stockings hanging from the fireplace, So I'm in.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, I've been a member of this cult

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Speaker 1: since age one, so I'm with you.

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Speaker 5: At zero, you were not into it.

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Speaker 1: As soon as I could understand what lights were and

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Speaker 1: what songs were, I was like one of Santa's hose

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Speaker 1: from day one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I love Christmas. I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: People make fun of me because of how much I

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Speaker 1: love Christmas. This is like something that's well known amongst

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Speaker 1: my friends. They're like, why are you such a fucking nerd?

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Speaker 1: But my happiest memories growing up like on a farm

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Speaker 1: with snow on the ground and thinking Santa, thinking I

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Speaker 1: hear Santa on the room.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if there's any little ones around, turn it down.

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Speaker 2: But I remember my parent and so tell me that

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Speaker 2: you know I was an asana and I would be like, yes,

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Speaker 2: there is.

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Speaker 5: So that's like I knew there.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't, but I like wanted to believe, so I just

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Speaker 2: did it in it.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny that we just accept culturally, like not universally,

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Speaker 1: but like close to universally at least among you know,

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Speaker 1: the Christian roots types of folk that we just lie

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Speaker 1: to our children about this thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's and it's a perfect parallel to being

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Speaker 2: in occult because you can just tell children anything and

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Speaker 2: they're like absolutely yes.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember feeling betrayed when I learned that Santa

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Speaker 1: was real. I just remember feeling like really disappointed. I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, so, like there's not magic in the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, great, well that's cool. I guess adulthood is

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Speaker 1: so much more boring Jesus, Yeah it is. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: does have that parallel and that it's like a little

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Speaker 1: bit like coming out of a cult because you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you mean, I'm I'm not special and things aren't magical

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Speaker 1: and there's nothing other than just like what I've seen

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Speaker 1: before me that fucking sucks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, sure does.

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Speaker 4: I want there to.

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Speaker 1: Be a jolly man coming through my chimney and eating

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Speaker 1: my cookies.

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Speaker 2: What about you and cults? What's the cultiest thing that

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Speaker 2: happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: Soone on one of my teams, you know, this person

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Speaker 1: invited me to like a little mini seminar with a

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Speaker 1: coach of neuro Linguistic Programming MLP NLP, and first of all,

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Speaker 1: shook it that anyone would think that I would be

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Speaker 1: interested in this, although I was very interested in going

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, I want to know what the fuck

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Speaker 1: they're gonna.

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Speaker 4: Say, because it's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately I had a meeting during the time of the

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Speaker 1: little seminar, so I was unable to go, But I

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Speaker 1: would love to do a whole episode on NLP.

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Speaker 2: Do you know.

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Speaker 4: Anything about it?

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Speaker 1: I do, Yeah, I'm not into it though, what do

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Speaker 1: you know? What is your perception of it?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot of visualization to kind of change

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Speaker 2: the way your mind.

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Speaker 5: Thanks. I actually have a book on it right next

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Speaker 5: to me right now.

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Speaker 2: Ironically, excuse me why, because I was like.

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Speaker 4: Like, I hate it. Here's a book right next to me.

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Speaker 2: When I went home, my dad had like a really giant,

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Speaker 2: big thick copy of a book about it that his

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Speaker 2: nurse had made him get, and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: want to look more into this, and then I read

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Speaker 2: it on the flight home and I was like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I remember I hate it. I have that thing

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Speaker 2: where you can't see images in your mind, so I

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Speaker 2: can't visualize at all.

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Speaker 5: Uh So it's just, yeah, I can't see anything.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's awful.

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Speaker 1: Really, So, like, but how when you write a scene

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Speaker 1: for like a show or like the pilot that you wrote,

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Speaker 1: how does that work?

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Speaker 2: Then I see it, But it's like seeing something with

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Speaker 2: your eyes open and just a memory. Like if I

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Speaker 2: close my eyes and you say, think of a pink elephant,

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Speaker 2: I don't see what that would actually look like.

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Speaker 5: Huh.

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Speaker 4: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still a little confused. But we can come

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Speaker 1: back to it another time because that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So my impression of NLP is that it's like I

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Speaker 1: remember first reading about it when I read that book

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Speaker 1: the by Neil Strauss, which is about how to pick

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Speaker 1: up women, the whole pickup artist culture, and it was

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Speaker 1: presented as this like kind of scientific way to become

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Speaker 1: better and also manipulate people, and it's very it feels

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Speaker 1: like a very male self help sort of path, which

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Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I feel like the people I've

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Speaker 1: heard talk about neurolinguistic programming have.

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Speaker 4: All been men.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, and I think it kind of goes with that,

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Speaker 1: like I'm going to be the best, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: rule the world. I'm going to make the most money.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, it feels like this very it's

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Speaker 1: like that Tony Robbins kind of.

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Speaker 2: Tony Robbins is very MLP oriented for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I actually found a little section on MLP

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Speaker 1: on his website for sure, which gets just just adding

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Speaker 1: to the list of evidence for him being a charlatan.

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Speaker 1: But okay, so some of the things I'm saying, and

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Speaker 1: tell me what you read in the book, it's like

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Speaker 1: you model someone who is very successful already or whatever

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Speaker 1: you like, model after them by literally like mimicking their

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Speaker 1: physicality and their tone of voice, even like maybe some

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Speaker 1: of the things they believe sounds fucking creepy.

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Speaker 4: First of all, it's like a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Affirmation stuff mirroring people's body language. Oh, on Tony Robin's website,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't call them affirmations. It calls them incantations, of course,

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Speaker 1: a phrase you repeat to yourself about your beliefs and goals.

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Speaker 1: Incantations taking a step further changing your physiology as well

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Speaker 1: as your words to create a state of total confidence,

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Speaker 1: get yourself into a peak state by embodying what you're

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Speaker 1: saying with all the intensity you can. Tony began using

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Speaker 1: incantations when he was seventeen and he still uses them

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Speaker 1: backstage today. NLP techniques like incantations are an effective way

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Speaker 1: to reprogram your mind and create empowering beliefs. Okay, first

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Speaker 1: of all, No, yes, there's something important about like what

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Speaker 1: you focus on grows in your mind right, Like that

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Speaker 1: is a known thing.

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Speaker 4: Like you can shift your attention. We all know this.

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Speaker 1: From half empty or half full in no CD land.

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Speaker 1: We can focus our attention on like the fearful dots

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Speaker 1: we're having, or we can choose to refocus on our life.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like there's nothing to the idea of

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Speaker 1: like choosing what to focus on.

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Speaker 4: But from everything that.

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Speaker 1: I understand, if you are feeling bad about yourself, saying

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Speaker 1: affirmations to yourself about how you feel good about yourself

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Speaker 1: that you don't actually believe actually reinforce you not believing

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Speaker 1: those things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's fake.

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Speaker 1: You can't force yourself to believe something you haven't internalized.

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Speaker 1: And to me, one of the biggest problems with all

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Speaker 1: of this like this like self help culture stuff is

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Speaker 1: because while growth is important and betterment is important, and

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Speaker 1: of course it's important to have goals. It's important to

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Speaker 1: work towards something. When we are fixating so much of

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Speaker 1: our energy on like becoming more, becoming more, becoming something

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Speaker 1: that we're not yet and achieving and achieving and achieving,

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Speaker 1: we're like rejecting the present version of ourselves and like

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Speaker 1: the actual feelings that we might be feeling in that moment,

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Speaker 1: which can actually make them come back stronger because we're

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Speaker 1: pushing them down so hard. Absolutely, it's inauthentic. It can

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Speaker 1: even backfire and be like the opposite of effective, and

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Speaker 1: it perpetuates this idea that we have to be perfect

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Speaker 1: in order to be valuable, or we have to be

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Speaker 1: like super super rich and successful, and I just fucking

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Speaker 1: hate that shit.

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Speaker 4: Sorry that was my rant, and right.

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Speaker 5: Now I hear you.

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Speaker 2: I think performatively it can be helpful, you know. I

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Speaker 2: think athletes can get a lot by watching somebody sink

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Speaker 2: a goal and just copying that stance.

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Speaker 4: And like sure sure energy.

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Speaker 2: I think stand ups can do it. I think it's

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Speaker 2: just far as like your daily life. It does get

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Speaker 2: a little too much, but I think that there is

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Speaker 2: value and if you're stuck and feeling the same four

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Speaker 2: things year after year, after year, and they're all negative,

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Speaker 2: like experiencing feeling different emotions maybe by watching somebody else

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Speaker 2: feeling them, and I sometimes I'm just like pretend I'm

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Speaker 2: not me and I'm like a new person feeling this

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Speaker 2: emotion so I'm not blocked from it, and that sometimes

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Speaker 2: works to just open me up a little bit, because

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Speaker 2: I also have OCD and I can get very repetitive

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Speaker 2: with my moods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying don't look to people

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Speaker 1: for examples of like what you can improve, for sure,

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Speaker 1: But I think this idea that if you just repeat

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Speaker 1: something that the particular, if you just like say something

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Speaker 1: to yourself long and to me, that feels like you're

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Speaker 1: fighting something that you don't want instead of just like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is what I feel, but I'm not gonna focus

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Speaker 1: it on it. I'm gonna choose to act in this

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Speaker 1: other way, for sure.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've seen people you like, employ the idea of affirmations

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Speaker 1: in a way that actually feels unhealthy to me and

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Speaker 1: like a rejection of their actual true experience. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's only by embracing our actual true present experience

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Speaker 1: that we can like get to the growth, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean for sure? Yeah, yeah, it's complicated. I

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Speaker 1: mean whatever, there are things that are valuable, of course.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like I take issue with the like constant

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Speaker 1: growth mindset. I feel like there's something inherently capitalistic about it,

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Speaker 1: or something there is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it so rejecting of yourself.

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Speaker 1: Always we are valuable, even when we're not performing our best,

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Speaker 1: and even when we're not achieving the perfection we're after

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Speaker 1: any and when we're not the most rich and successful.

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Speaker 4: I mean I'm not, but everyone else is.

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Speaker 5: No, everyone else is certainly that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, well anyway, I'm not francing for now.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk to Bob. Yeah, ho ho ho, y'all, here

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Speaker 4: we go, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe that I have to fight in a

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Speaker 3: day in and day out with police and prosecutors who

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Speaker 3: are ignorant and or lazy. Lazy victims are met with laziness, ignorance, ineptitude,

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Speaker 3: and even corruption. The money's being changing hands, all right,

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Speaker 3: and I have to fight. I have to fight harder

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Speaker 3: with the police and the prosecutors. The hardest part of

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Speaker 3: my job is dealing with them than dealing with the

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Speaker 3: bad guys. The bad guys the seconds they know what

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Speaker 3: they did, and I can even talk to them, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I even have a relationship with them after they've

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Speaker 3: done it. Sometimes where I've talked to them and they're like,

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Speaker 3: you got us. I mean you got us good. You

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Speaker 3: knew what you know, you knew what you had and

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Speaker 3: you got to say you know, they called me. I

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Speaker 3: have informants that called me from all over the country

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Speaker 3: telling me information on you know, on what's going on.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm an honest I'm a straight shooter, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I don't judge anybody, and I just do you know,

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Speaker 3: I go about an unprofessional manner, you know. And but

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Speaker 3: the thing is is that like I had a cop

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Speaker 3: the other day and I'm on the phone and he's like,

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Speaker 3: this is ridiculous, you know, just because you used to

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Speaker 3: be a cop, you don't think you could tell us

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Speaker 3: what to do. I said, I'm not gonna I'm not

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Speaker 3: telling you anything what to do, all right, I'm just

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Speaker 3: asking you to do your job. He's like, well, she

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Speaker 3: willingly gave her money. I said, let me ask you

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Speaker 3: something Bernie made offs victims willingly give them money to him?

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Speaker 3: Or did he put a gun to their head. Right,

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Speaker 3: Well that's different. I said, what Wow? Was that? What

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Speaker 3: that's investment for it? I said, oh, so, because those

285
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Speaker 3: people were trying to make you know, fifteen percent interest

286
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Speaker 3: when everyone else was making two percent interest. Well, gonna

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Speaker 3: help those people because we can understand how they wanted

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Speaker 3: to make a lot of money and Bernie rip them off.

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Speaker 3: But when my client is going in there because she

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Speaker 3: was diagnosed with cancer and she wants the cancer to

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Speaker 3: be cured, well we're gonna just call her ignorant stupid

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Speaker 3: because she's not looking to make money. She was going

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Speaker 3: in there and she got ripped off because she really

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Speaker 3: didn't want to have cancel, or because you're trying to

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Speaker 3: help her child, or because she's in love and wanted,

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Speaker 3: you know, her husband to come back, or whatever. So

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Speaker 3: you're gonna dowbreak, you know, like make fun of her.

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Speaker 3: But then you say, the victims of Bernie Madoff deserve help.

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Speaker 3: But my clients don't know. I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 3: buy that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And what happened is when I was a cop,

302
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Speaker 6: I was given a hard time by the people that

303
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Speaker 6: I worked with for many years, where I would bring

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Speaker 6: in arrests and I was very active, and they would

305
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Speaker 6: try to like make it go away because they didn't

306
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Speaker 6: want to.

307
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Speaker 3: Have to do the paperwork and they were going to

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Speaker 3: watch the jet game on TV at one o'clock and oh,

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Speaker 3: now you've so they try to find something wrong with

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Speaker 3: what I did in order to let the person go

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Speaker 3: so that they didn't have to do the paperwork. It

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Speaker 3: is crazy, wow. Interest So anyway, so what happened is

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Speaker 3: though they made me better, they made me better at

314
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Speaker 3: what I do because I had to know all the

315
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Speaker 3: laws everythings to stop my own people from sticking it

316
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Speaker 3: to me for twenty years. So when I was retired

317
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Speaker 3: and I went down to the beach and was sitting

318
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Speaker 3: on the beach, and then I picked up the pig

319
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Speaker 3: license and I met that doctor and the nurse in

320
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Speaker 3: the neighborhood bar and grill and I took that case.

321
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Speaker 3: I hit a brick wall at one point. Because what

322
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Speaker 3: happened was I gave the case to the detective in

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Speaker 3: the Broward Shriff's office. He Qing was a good guy.

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Speaker 3: He called me back and said, hey, Bob, I got

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Speaker 3: good news. I got the whole sixty five thousand back.

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Speaker 3: All you got to do is how do you people

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Speaker 3: come down, pick it up, and we're good to go.

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Speaker 3: And I said, oh, that is good news. But when

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Speaker 3: she getting arrested and he's like, well, well, no, there's

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Speaker 3: not going to be an arrest. I got the people

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Speaker 3: their money back, you know, we get the money back.

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Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, no, I understand it, But how

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Speaker 3: does that protect society? Like, how does that help protect

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Speaker 3: people from her doing it again? If all she has

335
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Speaker 3: to do is give back what she took son. He's like, well,

336
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 3: the prosecutor's never been a go for that, Like, you know,

337
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: they're getting their money back. They should be happy to

338
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 3: getting their money back. I said, no, no, who's the

339
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 3: prosecutor that's telling you this. He's like, well, that's the

340
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Speaker 3: prosecutor said to talk to the family lawyer. I said,

341
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Speaker 3: how will you even know who the family lawyer is

342
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Speaker 3: if she's never even been arrested? Like, what's going on here?

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Speaker 3: You know? So I call a prosecutor's office and he's

344
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Speaker 3: got the same attitude. He's like, well, who were you

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Speaker 3: to tell us what to do? And you know, the

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Speaker 3: people should be lucky to getting anything back at all.

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Speaker 3: And I said, well that's not going to fly. And

348
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Speaker 3: I said, I hope. He says, well, we have prosecutorial discretion.

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Speaker 3: I said, you know something, You're absolutely right you do,

350
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Speaker 3: I said, but I hope you're comfortable with it, because

351
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Speaker 3: in a few days, maybe a couple of days, or

352
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Speaker 3: maybe a week, or it's maybe two, you're going to

353
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Speaker 3: see an article. It's going to be in a newspaper.

354
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Speaker 3: It's going to say watching the wheels of justice fall off.

355
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Speaker 3: And it's not going to say to browd State Attorney's office.

356
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Speaker 3: It's going to say you by name on not doing

357
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Speaker 3: your job. And then I'm watching the wheels of justice

358
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Speaker 3: force and then we'll see how comfortable you are to

359
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Speaker 3: be a prosecutorial discretion. And the next thing, you know,

360
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Speaker 3: he hangs the phone up on me. Well, I went

361
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 3: back to the detective. The detective said, Bob, listen, at

362
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Speaker 3: the end of the day, I can't say warm, you know.

363
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 3: So he went and got a warrant from a judge

364
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 3: and they got the warrant on her, and she turned

365
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Speaker 3: herself in. And that was in like two thousand and nine,

366
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 3: turned her self in, got arrested. They were still hem

367
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 3: and horn about what are they going to charge you?

368
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 3: And then because of the newspaper article dropped, and I

369
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 3: had a guy that but I knew by the name

370
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Speaker 3: of Bob Norman, who had been writing articles about this

371
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 3: woman and how she had been skirting justice all the

372
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Speaker 3: time with the help of her attorney, who was, you know,

373
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 3: negotiating off the table restitution deals in order to help

374
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Speaker 3: her get out of trouble. And that's the way they

375
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 3: were handling it. So what happened was I was able

376
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Speaker 3: that that was the first case there that I was

377
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 3: able to get her arrested. Now, had I just let

378
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Speaker 3: her get away with it, and I didn't know the

379
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 3: law and the ins and outs and everything, then there

380
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 3: is no arrest, there's no fingerprints, there's no photographs, okay.

381
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,040
Speaker 3: And what happened is about eight nine months later, I

382
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 3: guess it was I got her again, and this time

383
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 3: it was the lawyer that was out was a young lawyer.

384
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 3: She was in her late twenties, and she she was

385
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 3: going through romance issues, romantic issues, you know, wanted to

386
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 3: meet the love of life, get married if kids wasn't

387
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 3: working out. And so she meets this woman and Gina

388
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,679
Speaker 3: Mark starts to tell her that she has to do

389
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 3: all these rituals.

390
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,640
Speaker 4: Gina Marks again Wow, Yeah.

391
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,440
Speaker 1: Gina isoman busy.

392
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Speaker 5: There bobs after her.

393
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 3: And in this case, ye case, there's three victims, five

394
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,400
Speaker 3: hundred and three thousand dollars. My one client, this young

395
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,239
Speaker 3: woman who's you know, late twenties, is out. She's an

396
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 3: attorney and she's out three hundred and twelve thousand dollars.

397
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 3: Now I get a call from her brother, who's a doctor,

398
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 3: who says, my sister has we found out that she's

399
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 3: given over three hundred thousand to a psychic. And I

400
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 3: don't know what we're going to do, you know, like

401
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 3: we can't stop her, Like we can't talk any sense

402
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 3: into her. She's still under genius control completely. So he

403
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 3: says that I see that you had her arrested before.

404
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 3: We can't even you know, talk any sense into it.

405
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,920
Speaker 3: So I had to do an intervention. I went down

406
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,479
Speaker 3: to Miami. They introduced me as a friend. They kind

407
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 3: of blocked her car in. She pulled in one day

408
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,959
Speaker 3: she was there. She had a violable. She had this

409
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 3: goat blood that she was going to come in come

410
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,719
Speaker 3: in the house with this blood. You're told to go

411
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 3: and do a ritual, to go into the bathroom and

412
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 3: poured this alleged goat blood over herself to do some

413
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 3: kind of ritual in any of that. She's there, She's

414
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 3: sitting there, and I'm trying to tell her that, you know, listen,

415
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 3: I am. You know. They introduced me as a family

416
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 3: friend at first, and then I'm like, listen, I'm no

417
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 3: family friend. Okay. Once we have her on the couch

418
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 3: and I said I'm no family friend. I said, I'm

419
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 3: an ex police officer. And I take out my retired

420
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 3: shield and show it. I figured it's a prop. Maybe

421
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 3: it'll help, you know, with the visuals of doing an intervention.

422
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, so you know here,

423
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 3: I'm an ex police saucer. This is who I really am.

424
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 3: I'm not a friend of a family. They're worried about you.

425
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 3: They called me in and she's like, no, Gina, she's

426
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 3: for real, she's the real deal. And I'm like, listen,

427
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 3: she's not the real deal. Okay, I'm telling you, well,

428
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 3: yes she is. I go listen, all right. So you

429
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 3: you were told that back when you were a little girl,

430
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 3: there was a cursed that was placed on you because

431
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 3: your maid put a curse on you. You had a

432
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 3: Haitian maid. I learned the story from a brother. We

433
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 3: learned it from her. So I said, a Haitian maid

434
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 3: that you had when you were two years old, the

435
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 3: three years old, the Haitian maid got fired by your

436
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,879
Speaker 3: family and she had a grudge against your family, so

437
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,959
Speaker 3: she put a curse on you to get back at

438
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 3: your family because they fired. She says, that's right, that's

439
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 3: what happened. And I said, oh, okay. And she she

440
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 3: buried like half an animal dead carcass outside your bedroom window,

441
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 3: and then the other half was buried on a mountaintop

442
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 3: in Columbia, and this whole thing right, And she's like, yeah,

443
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: that's right, that's right, you know. And I said, and

444
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 3: you have to talk to the Haitian Bludoo priest, you know,

445
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 3: this guy in little Haiti in Miami area. She's like,

446
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 3: that's right. And she's like she's firmly believing this stuff,

447
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 3: you know. And I said, well, and there's nobody that

448
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 3: can remove the curse. Here's the key. There's nobody that

449
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 3: can remove this curse except for Gina. She says, that's right.

450
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 3: I said, because the maid died. Your maid died, so

451
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 3: she and no longer removed the curse. And she says

452
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 3: that is right. And I said, well, then who is this?

453
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 3: And I opened up my laptop and I play her

454
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 3: a video of her maid from when she was a

455
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 3: little girl, who lives a mile away, like one point

456
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 3: five miles away. And I went and found her and

457
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: interviewed her and got her on tape. Wow, here she is, so,

458
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 3: Gina said, she's dead. Huh, well, look that, she goes,

459
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 3: that's not her. I go, I'll drive you to her

460
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 3: house right now. It's a mile of the way. And

461
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 3: then she started to think that all of a sudden,

462
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 3: it was like she said, I saw shoulder stuff to

463
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 3: go up and down, and she started to breathe heavier,

464
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 3: but I still didn't have her. I was like, oh,

465
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 3: I can't believe this. She's still like nos, Gene's the

466
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: real deal. I said, all right, I said, and Gina

467
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 3: told you that her mother died of cancer, right, And

468
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 3: she's like, that's right, Gina's mother died of cancer. And

469
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 3: I said, well, then who is this? And I showed

470
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 3: her a picture of Gina, her daughter, and the mother

471
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 3: at a party and said, here's the picture. Here's the

472
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: date of the picture. I said, her mother is not dead.

473
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 3: Her mother's alive, and well, and at that point she

474
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 3: just broke down and started crying and.

475
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

476
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I took her, I held her. I said,

477
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 3: get us some water. They got us some water, and

478
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 3: we became friends. And she put now I want to

479
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 3: bob build a case against her. You know, wow, And

480
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 3: I'm friends with her to this day. But you know

481
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 3: it took a lot. Look at look at what that took.

482
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: This is what I have to go through to get

483
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 3: people justice. Yeah, and then just the you know, long

484
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: story short. A few years down the road, I get

485
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: a call from a woman in Maryland. She's out eighty

486
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 3: two thousand. She says, I was ripped up by a

487
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 3: woman named Natalie Miller. Within five minutes, I look it up.

488
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: It's Gina Mark. She's now operating in Maryland a case

489
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 3: for three hundred and like sixty four thousand for six women.

490
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 3: Put it together on we have for six women, and

491
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 3: she got six years. But in Maryland, like you only

492
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 3: have to do like two years at a six or

493
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 3: something like that.

494
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 4: So by bitch, Gina's out of control.

495
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: Dude, I want there to be a TV show about

496
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: you following and hunting, do not hunting, but like, don't.

497
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 5: Want to like sopranos. I want it to be fictional.

498
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 3: I want to I agree with you with the word hunting.

499
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: I don't like the word like when it's a psychic hunter,

500
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: like people say that, well hunting, because hunting is an animal,

501
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 3: you know, And I don't look at the people that

502
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 3: I go after, you.

503
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: Know, getting justice.

504
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: I don't have anything personal against the people that I investigate.

505
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: I don't like what they do. I don't like the

506
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 3: acts that they commit, but I keep it professional and

507
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 3: so I don't use the you know, in the beginning,

508
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: and it's I said, psychic hunt the worlds only I

509
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 3: don't really like that term. I wish there was some

510
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: other term that people would use for it.

511
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 4: You know, psychic tracker, downer.

512
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: I don't know you. I guess they go like dog

513
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 3: the bounty hunter, like, you know, like that, but but

514
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: I don't like. I don't like hunting using the word

515
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 3: hunting for people, you know.

516
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, it's weird, but I still it's

517
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: just like the drama just of you. And by the way,

518
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: like it sucks that you can't just clone yourself and

519
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: have there be like fifty of you all across the

520
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: States and the world. Because this is happening to so

521
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: many people. Maybe if it's even maybe it's not this

522
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: exact format with a psychic, but this particular kind of thing,

523
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: this manipulation, this coercion, is happening to so many people

524
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: everywhere all the time, and the majority of people, if

525
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: they aren't too ashamed to come forward about it, which

526
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: usually there is a lot of shame, are just not

527
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: getting the justice that they need to get. And people

528
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: are continuing, like my profit guy, who is still out

529
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: there with a whole group of people conning people, taking

530
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: their money. They're writing their wills, signing their wills over

531
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: to him, and you know, it's just fucked up. There

532
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: aren't enough people advocating for justice for this kind of situation.

533
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 4: So I really appreciate what you do. And if you

534
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 4: could clone yourself that would be great.

535
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 5: Yes, So please do that.

536
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, And like I said, I told you,

537
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 7: I listened to the songs you know, and in your

538
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 7: lyrics you go through to you know, it makes you

539
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 7: blood boil, you know, and it makes my blood well.

540
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: It makes you turn red, It makes me turn red.

541
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 3: These are the emotions that you express, or the emotions

542
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 3: that I feel as I'm trying to build the case

543
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: and help people, you know. And it's also the stuff

544
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 3: that you say is the stuff that I that I

545
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 3: you know, attribute to the psychics. In other words, you know,

546
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: don't say it, you know if it's not true, you

547
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. If it's a lie, don't say it.

548
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 3: You know, make you know, and you say that stuff

549
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: and you know it's it's very It hits me close

550
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 3: to the heart in that you're expressing what I'm doing,

551
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 3: but through your music.

552
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 4: You know, Oh, I think I so much.

553
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: I have a question, have you Have you ever had

554
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: an experience with the psychic where you know.

555
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 3: It has come from Bob did like, did you have

556
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: a bad experience right now you're like, you know, on

557
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: a walk path or whatever. No, I just never did,

558
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 3: and no, nothing like that. It just was I when

559
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: I grew up, my parents just instilled in me that

560
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: you always stick up for the underdog. Like I just

561
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 3: remember even if I was like when I was a

562
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: kid and I was in the playground, that I'd come

563
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: home and say, hey, they picked on a little Johnny,

564
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: you know this stuff because he's a little slow or something,

565
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: you know. And my father, even as a little kid.

566
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 3: My father grabbed me and said, let me tell you something.

567
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 3: If I hear it at you were part of that.

568
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: You know, if I hear it you made fun of

569
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: that kid or you picked on that kid, he goes,

570
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 3: You're going to get it worse for me, you know.

571
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: And so I was taught that from a young age,

572
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: you know. And then my family was always entrepreneurs. They

573
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 3: always own their own businesses and stuff. And so when

574
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: I went into the police department, it was like a

575
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: civil service mentality where it was an attitude of do

576
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: the least amount possible and collect your paycheck and don't

577
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: make work for other people. But I was brought up

578
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: with like, always treat people the way you would want

579
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: your own family to be treated. And it was very

580
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 3: It was a rude awakening dealing with people that didn't

581
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 3: think that way. And so it was like oil and

582
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 3: water my whole career. But then, you know, I wondered,

583
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: I said, you know, God, why is it that it's

584
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 3: so hard all this time, so, you know, twenty years

585
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: and knock on my head against the wall dealing with

586
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: people that are not like minded, you know. And it

587
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: wasn't until I got that case with Gina Marks and

588
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: was able to get it through and had the fortitude

589
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: to know the law so good know how the theft

590
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 3: law applied. Be able to go toe to toe with

591
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 3: the prosecutor. Not scared to go up against the prosecutor,

592
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: not scared to go up against the detective, the powers

593
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: that be. Most guys they retired, they don't want nothing

594
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: to do with that. They're scared to go up against

595
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 3: anybody like that, you know, they don't want confrontation. But me,

596
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: I was almost forged through the fire of going through

597
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 3: twenty years at that and then I all of a

598
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: sudden it kind of clicked and I said, you know something,

599
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 3: that was what that was all about. It like it

600
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 3: came full circle. That was what was making me be

601
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: able to be the person that I am today. Was

602
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 3: all of that that I had to go through back then.

603
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: That's the way I feel, at least that's what I

604
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 3: feel about.

605
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: Can you lay out some other tactics that are commonly

606
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: used in the very beginning before someone is like fully

607
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: invested in doctrinated.

608
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 3: Well, there's the progression of fees. Okay, so that's subtle.

609
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: I mean they're not just calling someone in and saying

610
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: give me five hundred and three thousand dollars, it's twenty dollars,

611
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 3: you know, something under one hundred, and then it's oh,

612
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: I need money for crystals and candles, and that's you know,

613
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: eight hundred. They're keeping her under a thousand. So now

614
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 3: we're at eight twenty. Well, I'll tell you something. They're

615
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: ce method behind that because in a lot of places,

616
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 3: like in New York, they'll do that because one thousand

617
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: dollars one thousand and one is a felony. So while

618
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 3: they're still trying to feel the person out, they keep

619
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: it out of misdemeanor until I realize whether they're going

620
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: to go for it or not. Then they'll take it

621
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 3: into the felony level. This is all calculated, Okay, this

622
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 3: is this is organized crime. This is not you know,

623
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: just willy nilly. You know, this isn't all bought out.

624
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: And these people move around the country and they go

625
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 3: and open up shops in different places. If things get hot,

626
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: they go to another area and they change their hair color,

627
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: change their name, and they all know each other. There's

628
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 3: a group of people that know each other all around

629
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: the country and trade off shops and places. But getting

630
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 3: back to your question. So you have the initial you know,

631
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: low fee, a nominal fee, and then an increasing fee,

632
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: and then they really test the person. And then the

633
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: other thing is with the rituals. What they're doing is

634
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: they're taking up the person's time. If you want to

635
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: control someone, if you want to modify someone's behavior. In

636
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: other words, what we're really dealing with is undo influencial

637
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: thought reform. Some people say brainwashed. I don't like to

638
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: use the word brainwashing because everybody scoffs said that, like,

639
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 3: oh the woman said she was brainwashed, she said she

640
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: was in a trance as a negative connotation, like the

641
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: police if the victim says, oh, you know, she brainwashed me,

642
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: they laugh at her. You know, but I understand it.

643
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: But basically it's under influence. It's psychological manipulation, it's thought reform.

644
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: And in order to do that, what the person does,

645
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: the psychic does they take up a lot of the

646
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: person's time. Because if you want to psychologically manipulate somebody,

647
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 3: you need to control the time. You need to take

648
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: up a lot of their time to get them only

649
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: dealing with you. That's the me.

650
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: Like flooding their life basically, which.

651
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: The numerous text messages and making the person run around

652
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: and do all of these rituals and stuff. It's it's

653
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: to get the person dependent on them by controlling their time.

654
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: That's a very important aspect of it, because the more

655
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: time that they have to deal with the psychic now,

656
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: then the less time they can have. Other people bought

657
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: the scam right.

658
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: And I would just love to point out one thing.

659
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: That I've observed just just this past week, when I

660
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: was talking to a girlfriend about someone she has started

661
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: seeing who we suspect it is a narcissist and is

662
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: potentially signing showing signs.

663
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 4: Of abusive behaviors.

664
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: That is such a common thing that I've noticed among

665
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: like narcissistic types of people or abusive types of people,

666
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: is that when you first start dating them, they do

667
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: sort of like start flooding your phone and wanting to

668
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: see you all the time.

669
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: And it's just sort of this like constant.

670
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: Like just like takes over your life completely.

671
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: Mean it's times too because it's into your space too.

672
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, because love bombing is like the positivity and the validation,

673
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: but it's like just the also just the NonStop contact thing.

674
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 4: I remember people would say that about Armie hammer.

675
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: They would say that about Marilyn Manson, which I found

676
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: to be the case when in my experience with him,

677
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: it was just like nonstout, like I had to be

678
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: talking to him all the time. And so I find

679
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: it really interesting. I've never thought of psychics in that

680
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: way where they would just want to be constantly in contact,

681
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: But it makes perfect sense because the more you're in contact,

682
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: the more isolated you're going to be, the more like

683
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: you're going to be less less exposed to alternative ideas

684
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: or ways of thinking. So, yeah, that's a great thing

685
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: to look out for, so continue right, right.

686
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: So sort of red flags for people is one if

687
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: the psychic says to you, don't talk about this, what

688
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: anybody else? Okay, you've been a secret you know. Why

689
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: is this person telling you to keep this a secret? Right?

690
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: You know alleged work. So anytime in life someone says, well,

691
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: don't tell anybody about this, red flag should go up

692
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: and say why is the person telling me that? You know? So,

693
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: And especially in the case of a psychic, it's just

694
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: one of the main hallmarks in the very beginning. If

695
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: you see a progression of fees early on, that's a hallmark.

696
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 3: If they're using a magic trick, you know, in order

697
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: to dupe you into believing in the existence or something.

698
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: Why are they using a magic trick? You know, if

699
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: they end up exacerbating your existing fears if you tell them,

700
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: you got to be careful, realize that what you're telling them,

701
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: and try to But the thing is, you know, I

702
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: could say all of this stuff, but as much as

703
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: I could say, educate people about it, when they walk

704
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: out of that doctor's office and he says you have

705
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: terminal cancel, they just find out that their boyfriend or

706
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: girlfriend was cheating on them. All of this goes out

707
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: the window. I hate to tell you, like it just

708
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 3: their critical thinking just goes right down, you know, the tombs.

709
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: But one of the things what I would say is

710
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that I would say to people is

711
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: when you, you know, in your life, have somebody you

712
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: can reach out to, try to develop a network or

713
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: at least just one person. That when if you say

714
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: to yourself, if things ever got really bad, if I

715
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 3: ever found out my wife was cheating on me, if

716
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 3: I ever got diagnosed with cancer, if something happened to

717
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: my kid, you know, if I ever lost my job,

718
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: someone that I could pick up the phone and call

719
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: who I know I could talk to, you know, other

720
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: than some anonymous person that you've never met before, right,

721
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: you know, So a support group, okay, and that you

722
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: know it's easier said than done, you know, but you

723
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 3: need to create that support group or even just have

724
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: that one person. You need that before the crisis hits,

725
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: not after the crisis.

726
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 5: Hits, right, smart, right, you know.

727
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: And then and then don't put all your trust in

728
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: someone that's self proclaimed.

729
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: You know.

730
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: That's another thing. It's and and you know, even.

731
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: People with credentials sometimes don't necessarily warrant all of your

732
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: trust as your only source of information, because there are

733
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: people who have degrees who are doing the same thing.

734
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: You know, absolute are dangerous that you know, quack doctors

735
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, you know that are taking advantage

736
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: of people. So I mean, you're already starting off behind

737
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: the eight ball when you just have someone that doesn't

738
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: even have that, you know what I mean. You know,

739
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: and and if you want to believe in this stuff

740
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: like just you know, have the big thing is have

741
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: alternative people to talk to, you know, don't let the

742
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: person isolate you, don't become completely dependent on one particular

743
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: person for your worldview, you know, your view of what's

744
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: going on in your life, because that's dangerous. You need balance,

745
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: you need you need other people around you. You need

746
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: you know, you can't just put all your eggs in

747
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: one basket, so to speak. You can't just you know,

748
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: like depend on one person for all your decisions and

749
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: give that person total control of your life, you know, right,

750
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 3: But it's easy. You know, I could talk to Blue

751
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: in the face, but it's easier said than done. When

752
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: the crisis hits, there is just a tendency for even

753
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,719
Speaker 3: smart people to reach out for this, this supernatural world.

754
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 3: And you know because a lot of times what happens is,

755
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 3: you know, they could reach out to a doctor or

756
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: somebody rational, and they're not going to give them the

757
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: answer they're looking for, you know. So so what they're

758
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 3: doing is reaching out to the person that will give

759
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: them the answer. I mean, they could go to ten

760
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: different doctors, and the doctors are all going to say,

761
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 3: you got lung cancer, and you know what, there's nothing

762
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 3: that can be done. It's stage four and you've got

763
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 3: lung cancer. But the psychic is going to say, oh,

764
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: Godden never meant for you. To have this. I can

765
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: help fit, you know, I can cure this. So who

766
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: else is going to do that? You know? So they're

767
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 3: reaching out to this person and they're you know, they're

768
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 3: putting all their faith and hope in somebody that's you know,

769
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 3: looking to financially exploit them. And it's sad. It's said

770
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: that there's people out there, these self psychis that are

771
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 3: like that that can just look at another person dead

772
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 3: in the eye. Know that, you know that they're just

773
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: looking at them like they're a dollar sign, like they're

774
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: a money bag. You know. It said it said religious terminology. Okay,

775
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 3: I need to go to the altar. I need to

776
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: go to the church. Yeah. My clients say, where's the church?

777
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: Can I go with you to the church, And they're like,

778
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: oh no, if you go, it would bring the evil

779
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: that's on you. Would you go to the church and

780
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: go on to people there? You know? I got my

781
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: people at the church are all working for you, and

782
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: we can't have them contaminated by the evil that's on you.

783
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 3: So you can't go there. So why is the person

784
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: not telling you the name of the church. Why are

785
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 3: they not letting you go to the church. Why are

786
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: they creating the pseudo world where they're keeping you in

787
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: the dark about important facts that when you ask these questions,

788
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 3: where is the church? Who are the people that you're

789
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: working with? They avoid the questions, They avoid the answers

790
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: to these questions that pop up. And then what happens

791
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: is if you really get close and the person starts

792
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: to question a lot as to where where's my money?

793
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: Where's the church? I'm not starting to feel that this

794
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 3: is right. They say, how dare you do? This? Become abusive,

795
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: and they go from being nice to Oh, you like

796
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: the sister I never had, you like the daughter I

797
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: never had. I want to help you so much, you

798
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 3: like a member of my own family. Would I introduce

799
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 3: you to my kids and my husband and bring you

800
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: into my house if I was scamming you? But then

801
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: we go from missus nice to oh, you're doubting me.

802
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 3: Oh you know something, how ungrateful you are? You know

803
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 3: I put my own family in jeopardy doing battle with

804
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 3: the evil. It could it could hurt my family and

805
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: you and you ungrateful so and so that you would

806
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: come into my house and then you would treat me

807
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: this way? They turn it. They flip the script, and

808
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: then the person generally is a good natured person who says, oh, no,

809
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: I didn't mean to do that. I've never meant to

810
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: offend you, you know. I know you've been working hard

811
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 3: for me, and they just flip the script on them.

812
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 3: It's almost like an abused woman syndrome where the husband

813
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 3: is nice and nice and then he hits them, and

814
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 3: then they don't want him arrest it, and then they're

815
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: nice for a little while again, and then when things

816
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: happen again, they hit them again, you know, And it's

817
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 3: like an abusive and I don't want to, you know,

818
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 3: make it the same severity with that, but it's similar

819
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: in the psychological aspects of it. Bit the person is

820
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: being nice to you, and then all of a sudden,

821
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: when you question things, they flip the script on you

822
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: and be real mean to you. You got to wonder

823
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 3: why is that happening.

824
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: It seems like most cult leaders, certainly not all of them,

825
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: but the majority of the ones that we hear about

826
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: at least are men. But it seems like the majority

827
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: of these psychic frauds that we hear about our women.

828
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 4: Is that Have you found that to be true?

829
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: Yes? And I was thinking about that before we came on.

830
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah here, and I was wondering, I've never really looked

831
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: into why that is, and I'm not quite sure why

832
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 3: that is, to be honest with you. But why is

833
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: it that men? You know? I mean, I know they

834
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: say that men are more narcissistic, psychologists say than women.

835
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: You know, if they look through a study, there's more

836
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: narcissistic men than women. But in this particular situation, why

837
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: is it that?

838
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 2: Well, because sick men don't know how to fake empathy

839
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: as well as narcissistic women.

840
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, but here we have women praying upon other women.

841
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 4: You know, are the victims that you've worked with mostly women?

842
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 4: Or how many men? Would you say?

843
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: It's mostly women? But I'd say maybe ten percent men.

844
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a good amount of men, you know, like,

845
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: but it's mostly women. And it's mostly women between like

846
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 3: twenty five and thirty five who are looking to get

847
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: married and have kids and stuff. That's when I find

848
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: the biggest subset. And then I find a lot of

849
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: my clients are Chinese and Indian and then White after that,

850
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: because there's a big superstition that in those communities, there's

851
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: like in China, like their grandparents and their parents actually

852
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 3: go see psychics over there. But it's a whole different thing.

853
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 3: It's like it's a completely different thing than what's going

854
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: on here, and what the way the psychics act towards

855
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: the people. And then and in India, like the people

856
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: have prayer rooms and they believe in you know, there's

857
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: just a spirituality through those communities where I feel that

858
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: Chinese people and Indian not everybody, of course, but I'm

859
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: just saying a lot of my clients are Chinese and

860
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: Indian and I find as an undepending of spirituality of

861
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 3: some type that run.

862
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, theory, just gonna posit a theory here could

863
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: be wrong. It could be just like definitively way more

864
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: women who end up being victims of this sort of thing.

865
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: But I would posit that there are more men that

866
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: are victims of this sort of thing, and there is

867
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: more shame about coming forward about it or talking to

868
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: anyone about it.

869
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 4: It could be wrong. This is my theory.

870
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: If I ever get that twenty percent, I would say

871
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: it goes up to thirty forty percent.

872
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 5: Okay, I'll do thirty two.

873
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean because because we hear that a lot about

874
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: cults about people who joined cults, and yes, certainly there

875
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: are a lot of women. But I was just thinking

876
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: today about this guy I know who he described a

877
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: situation to me and I was like, oh, that was

878
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: a cult.

879
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 4: Let's call him Jared.

880
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 5: I don't know.

881
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: I was like, Jared, that what you're describing as a cult,

882
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: and he was so as soon as he heard me

883
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: say that, he had so much resistance to it, and

884
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: there's just like so much shame around the situation. He

885
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: didn't even want to hear it. And I know that

886
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: that's not exclusive to men, but I have found that

887
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: there's just like in aversion to you know, we all

888
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: have in a version of vulnerability to some degree.

889
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 4: And I would say that in our particular.

890
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: Society that that is something that would seem to me

891
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: to be more prevalent along men.

892
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 3: I would think, I would think women have a tendency

893
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: to open up to other women more than men are

894
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: comfortable opening up to people. Men keep things more internalized

895
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 3: than women do. Yes, So therefore, if that's true, if

896
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: that theory is true, then a man would be less

897
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 3: likely to go open up and bear his heart and

898
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: soul to a psychic than a woman. Would because she's

899
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: more comfortable talking with her friends and other women.

900
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: Right, But would he join a very self help group

901
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: that is to get you?

902
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: Like?

903
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: I can think of a few men I know right

904
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: right off the bat, who are members of like groups

905
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: for men to like become more successful, right, Like it's

906
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: a different kind of.

907
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: Of pursuit perhaps, But I don't know.

908
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: Just listen to questioning Yeah men women, Yeah.

909
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 3: And maybe maybe it has to do with the topic itself,

910
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: not only opening up, but what they're opening up about. Right.

911
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 3: You know?

912
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: The guy I'm thinking of the group that he joined

913
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 1: had to do with like, I can't remember. I don't

914
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: think it was spirituality though, I think it was a different,

915
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: like type of self improvement thing.

916
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: But I mean, I would like to say to the

917
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: psychis you know, like like what Lowless says in a song,

918
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: you know, if it's not true, don't say it. You

919
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 3: know you know, you know you know what I mean,

920
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 3: Like you say you know if it's a lie, don't

921
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: say it's true. You know what I'm saying. How do

922
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: you look someone in the face you know what I'm saying,

923
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: and and tell them lies when you when you know

924
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: it's not true, you know what I mean. And that's

925
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 3: what bothers me. And you know, if you don't feel it,

926
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: if you don't you said, if you don't feel it,

927
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 3: don't fake it. You know, like, why if you're not

928
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 3: feeling why are you telling me I'm like the daughter

929
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: you never had? You like, I'm like the sister you

930
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: never had. When at the when you're looking at me,

931
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: and really what you're looking at me is like I'm

932
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: Uncle'm a dollar sign, you know so, and you're telling me,

933
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 3: Oh God, bless I love you so much. If you

934
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: don't love me, don't say it. You know what I'm saying.

935
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 3: That's what they I wish they would get you a message,

936
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?

937
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: Thank you?

938
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 3: Well.

939
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: That that brings me to another question, which is do

940
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: you think that any of these people truly believe that

941
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: they are psychic?

942
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: No? I really don't believe that, you know, based on

943
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 3: my experience in dealing with them. I you know, like

944
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 3: there's there's a New York Times article, a very interesting

945
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: New York Times article where uh, they had some psychic

946
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: ecept or for a parole hearing, and they asked the

947
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: parole board asked them, was it a scam? Or was

948
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 3: it real what you were doing. And they said it

949
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: was a scam. You know, like, all right, I get it.

950
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 3: They're looking to get out of prison, so they're saying

951
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 3: what they have to say to get out of prison.

952
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: But they admitted it was a scam. And in my

953
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 3: talking to people within that network, they laugh about it

954
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: and they tell me that they know. So of the

955
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: people I've talked to. Now, can I say that everybody?

956
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: I can't make the blanket. You know, is there somebody

957
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: out there, a couple that might actually believe that, you know,

958
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: they have the power or ability or something. You know.

959
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: I can't speak to everybody, but I could say that

960
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 3: within the people that I've forced to be arrested, and

961
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: the network of people more generally as a whole, I,

962
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 3: in my opinion, I don't believe that they that they

963
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 3: believe in it. I think they know the people doing.

964
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 5: The like twenty thousand dollars for cambells, I think they just.

965
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: Let me give you an example, though. I want to

966
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: give you an example because and the reason I say

967
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 3: they know is because I talk about provable lives when

968
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: I build the case. So you know, when a self

969
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 3: proclaimed psychic is texting one of my clients saying I'm

970
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: at the church right now doing battle with the spirits,

971
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 3: and I'm doing surveillance at that psychic and they're in

972
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 3: the hard rock casino down in Florida, right in the

973
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 3: pole blot machine while they're texting that they're at the

974
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: church at the altar. There's no way that they really

975
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 3: believe in that they're at you know what I'm saying.

976
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: They know they're not.

977
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 5: At the church, you know, right right?

978
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

979
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: I think of the I guess I think of the

980
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: kind that like do retreats and stuff and are like

981
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: claiming to contact dead.

982
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 5: I know people who definitely believe that they are really.

983
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I know that there are people

984
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: who believe it, but the ones who are like, like,

985
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: I just wonder if there's a world where they're justifying

986
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: the amount of money they're having people spend because they're like, no,

987
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: but I'm real, so they should spend this money.

988
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 3: So that's a whole different subset of psychics that I

989
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: don't really investigate because I'm investigating ones that really stick

990
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 3: to a script kind of you know, there is a

991
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 3: real modus operandi and a script that goes on in

992
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 3: the ones that I'm causing to be arrested. You know,

993
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: they're starting the more for phenomenal feeded, you know, going

994
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: a little higher and doing the magic trick. They're saying things.

995
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 3: It's almost like when they talk to the person. I mean.

996
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: I had one one day where I sent in a

997
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 3: woman under cover and she had the glasses on and

998
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: she caught the psychic reading the script from a piece

999
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 3: of paper. She was young, and she was reading what

1000
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 3: the mother would say in a reading. Because we had

1001
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: the same woman went in and got reading from the mother.

1002
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: Then she went in and got a reading from the

1003
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: younger one, which was the daughter in law actually, and

1004
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 3: the daughter in law had a piece of paper under

1005
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: the table and was reading what to say to the

1006
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: victim of the piece of paper. Wow, okay, so you

1007
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 3: can't tell me that that woman doesn't know, you know,

1008
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 3: and she's telling them you know. And this is something

1009
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: like common things that they'll say. One of the common

1010
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 3: things is they'll go you know, you know. One of

1011
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: the things that I can see is that you always

1012
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 3: do for others, but that others don't always do for you.

1013
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 3: I see that you're such a good person and you're

1014
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 3: always trying to help other people. But sometimes you feel

1015
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: let down and that they don't do that back, and

1016
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 3: you don't get that same feeling back from them, you know.

1017
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: And they do this and they say and it's the

1018
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: same thing that gets said to each victim. Yeah.

1019
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1020
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 3: But when I started talking to a victim on the

1021
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: phone and I'm interviewing the victim, I'm like, okay, let

1022
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: me see. You went to see the psychic, and the

1023
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: psychic said, oh, God, bless you. You know, I'm so

1024
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 3: glad you came to me. And sometimes I said, maybe

1025
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: you called and the psychic didn't answer, and then when

1026
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: you call back, you said, oh, that was the evil

1027
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: spirits trying to keep us apart. That's why I didn't

1028
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,479
Speaker 3: answer right away, or I didn't come to the door.

1029
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 3: And then oh, then I need a little bit of money.

1030
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 3: And then oh, you know what, I need some money

1031
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 3: for crystals and candles. But I see a negativity, I

1032
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 3: see a blockage, and then oh, you know what, I

1033
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 3: think you have to go home at night, and we

1034
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: have to say prayers together, you know, and then the

1035
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 3: person will say prayers with the psychic, and then and

1036
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: then I'll say, oh, and then she said, you know,

1037
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 3: you like the sister I never had, you, like the

1038
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 3: mother I never had. You know, you like the daughter

1039
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: I never had. And then you know, she'll she'll bring

1040
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 3: you and say, look, I introduced you to members of

1041
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 3: my family or and and the victim will say to me, Bob,

1042
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: it's almost like I'm talking to the psychic Like everything

1043
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: you're saying is stuff that during the scam was said

1044
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: to me, you know, And so so you know, I

1045
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: know the script, okay, and at various stages I know,

1046
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: and I'll say, okay, well, she was really nice to you,

1047
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden she turned it on

1048
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 3: and got mad at you when you saw the question exactly, Bob,

1049
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: that's what she did, you know. And I'm like, you know,

1050
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: and they said thank you so much for understanding, like

1051
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: they feel a sense of relief. The victim, I could tell,

1052
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: you feel such a sense of relief to be talking

1053
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 3: to somebody that understands what they actually went through.

1054
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Have you observed the girl Noel we had on our show,

1055
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: her psychic person. She figured out that the woman googled

1056
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: her in advance and googled everyone in advance and was

1057
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: just like using information that was found on Google. Have

1058
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: you found that to be a thing that is common, Lola.

1059
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: It's called the hot reading hot reading. So you have

1060
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: you're right on the money. You have the cold reading

1061
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 3: where someone walks in up the street cold and then

1062
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 3: picking up on verbal and nonverbal clues just off you know, cold,

1063
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: and then you have a hot reading with another thing

1064
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 3: that the psychic will do. And now that you've hit

1065
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: on it is, they'll say to the person, Oh, I

1066
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 3: need you to write down your name and your data birth,

1067
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 3: and your boyfriend's name and data birth. Well whoever it

1068
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: is that they're talking to, I'm about And so that's

1069
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 3: so that they can do internet research and learn what

1070
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 3: kind of assets does this person have, what kind of

1071
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: job does this person have? Does this person look like

1072
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 3: they'll make a good mark. So they're doing a hot

1073
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: reading with their learning about.

1074
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: The person who died that they can bring up. Yeah.

1075
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 3: I was on a TV show one day, and a

1076
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: major TV show, and it was this psychic that supposedly

1077
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: talked to mediums and whatnot talked it was a medium

1078
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: that talks to you know, dead people. And I was

1079
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: backstage in the green room and the psychic comes over

1080
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 3: to me and says, hey, Bob, you know what, I'd

1081
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 3: really love to give you a reading, you know. So

1082
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 3: I said, oh, that's great, you know, like you know

1083
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: that thought this was pretty funny, you know, being in

1084
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 3: the green room and now she knows what I do

1085
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 3: for a living and you're reading right, come on, you know.

1086
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: So I said, oh, really, She says, you know, I see, well,

1087
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: I see that you're not really into it. But I

1088
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: see someone and I'm just going to make up poetic

1089
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 3: because I don't want to give my own family name.

1090
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 3: But so she says, I see someone with an L

1091
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 3: in your life. I see someone in your family with

1092
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 3: an L. I think it's like a brother, like like

1093
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 3: a Larry, right. And it turns out the first she says,

1094
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 3: like a Larry or something, and then she goes, no, no,

1095
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 3: like a Leonard right, because and so she did hit

1096
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 3: on the name right, So it was the right name

1097
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: that she was given of my brother, although it wasn't

1098
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: Larry a Leonard. So I looked at her and I

1099
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: realized that before we came to that show that day,

1100
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 3: it's very easy to go on the internet and find out.

1101
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 4: Family message, you know.

1102
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 3: So I looked right back at her and I said,

1103
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 3: hold on a second, let me read you. And she

1104
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: looked at me stunned, and she says what And I said,

1105
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 3: let me read you? And I put my hands on it,

1106
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 3: and I said, well, I see something with an E

1107
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 3: an E, I see something with it with a m okay,

1108
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: and uh, you know. And then she's and I'm not

1109
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: going to say an exact place, but so she goes,

1110
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: what do you what do you mean you see somebody?

1111
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: I said, I see where you were born East Manitoba

1112
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 3: and that that's where she was born, you know. And

1113
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 3: she goes and I go, listen, honey, I go, I

1114
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 3: googled you, just like you googled me. She says, well,

1115
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 3: I could see you're not ready for this. I said,

1116
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm ever going to be ready.

1117
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 4: But we call it a love. That is such a

1118
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 4: good story.

1119
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 1: I want to I want to google every psychic now

1120
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: and just go on them. I I one time someone

1121
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: when I was younger, a family friend insisted that I

1122
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: talked to their psychic.

1123
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 4: On the phone.

1124
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: And I was like, already pretty skeptical at that point

1125
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: in my life, and I was like, I don't want

1126
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: to do that. They're like, I'm going to pay for it.

1127
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: Just trust me, like you need this person. I was

1128
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: like fine, So I do the call and the woman

1129
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: is like, uh, like she's not She's asking me questions

1130
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: and I'm giving her really really vague answers because I

1131
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: don't want to give her any information to like read

1132
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: me off of. So she starts getting frustrated with me,

1133
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, you're not giving me anything.

1134
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 4: I don't know how to. I don't know how I

1135
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 4: can't read you if you're not giving me anything.

1136
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're psychic, Like I shouldn't have to give

1137
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: you information to read me off of if you're literally

1138
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: psychic and able to like determine magically what is happening

1139
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: with me, Like, I'm not going to let you cold

1140
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: read me.

1141
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 4: And then the call went nowhere and that was it.

1142
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: Right. Well, one of the things I say to people,

1143
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: I just want to you know, I'm just hearing what

1144
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 3: you're saying about, you know, giving them stuff. But one

1145
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: of the things that people need to realize, and I

1146
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 3: think law enforcement really is a message for them, is

1147
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 3: to you need to credit the con more and stop

1148
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: blaming the victim so much. Yeah, you know, and realize

1149
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 3: how professional they are like you. You in that situation,

1150
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 3: you limited that person's ability to do a cold readings.

1151
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 3: So you were, you know, onto their technique. But a

1152
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: lot of people aren't, you know, and there walk in

1153
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 3: or they walk in cold and they're dealing with a professional,

1154
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 3: and then they think that they can use their wits

1155
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: to you know, like and a lot of times people

1156
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: that are very smart, they overestimate their own street smarts

1157
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: or their own intellect. Yeah, thinking because they are so smart,

1158
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 3: they'll never get skinned.

1159
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 1: To be clear, that was not the point of that story, okay, smart.

1160
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: The point was that the psychic is like not a psychic,

1161
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: but no, I hear I.

1162
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just going off on it. And then

1163
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: what I say to to my clients is I say, listen,

1164
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: you got to understand something. You were dealing with a professional. Okay,

1165
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 3: maybe not a professional in terms of you has a

1166
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 3: professional degree, but probably learned this when they were five

1167
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 3: years old, okay, and then learned it from their grandmother

1168
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 3: and their mother and have been doing it for many years.

1169
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 3: So you know, I said, it would be like me

1170
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: thinking that I'm going to go out on a basketball

1171
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: court and beat Lebron James in a game of one

1172
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 3: on one. Guess what it's not.

1173
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: I love that analogy.

1174
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I say you walked in and you

1175
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: didn't stand the chance. With your problems that you were

1176
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: experiencing at the time, and as vulnerable as you were,

1177
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: you did not stand a chance against this professional, just

1178
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 3: like I wouldn't stand a chance in a one on

1179
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 3: one game with lebron V. So give yourself a break.

1180
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 4: That is a really good point.

1181
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: And if you google, I was just talking about this

1182
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 1: before you were recording. I'm like obsessed with mentalism, which

1183
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: is you know, for anyone who doesn't know, it's like

1184
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: basically using psychology to manipulate people on purpose for like

1185
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: a show.

1186
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 4: But you can they the things that they can do.

1187
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: They can predict what you're going to draw on a

1188
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 1: piece of paper by giving you little subtle cues. They

1189
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: can they can read you. They can read your really

1190
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: really subtle body cues and face cues. So like, especially

1191
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: when you're in person with someone, you're even more susceptible

1192
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: than you would be on like my phone call, for example.

1193
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 4: There are so many ways to manipulate.

1194
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: People with just like these little psychological techniques that we

1195
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: are not aware of.

1196
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 4: Because we haven't studied that.

1197
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: And and you're right, like we it doesn't matter how

1198
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: smart you are. If you're not a cognizant of all

1199
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: of the many many different tricks and all the many

1200
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: different skills that a person could have to read you like,

1201
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: you might get tricked and there's nothing.

1202
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 4: Wrong with you because of it. It just means they are

1203
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 4: so good at that.

1204
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 3: And how can you expect too much of yourself? Because

1205
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 3: even if you were on top of your game and

1206
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 3: there was nothing going on, you could be you know,

1207
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 3: a mentalist can still get over on you. But these

1208
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 3: are people going in with genuine problems. You know that

1209
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 3: kid is sick. You know they diagnosed with an illness,

1210
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 3: and you know they've got a lot on their plate,

1211
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 3: and so you know, you just can't expect them to be,

1212
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 3: you know, on top of the game mentally when dealing

1213
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: with this professional and to expect that and for someone

1214
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 3: a victim to expect that of themselves is expecting too much.

1215
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 3: But that's what happens when the victim feels embarrassed or ashamed,

1216
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 3: They feel that they let themselves down, and I try

1217
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: to explain them, you did not let yourself down, you know, like,

1218
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you need to give

1219
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 3: more credit. You know, could you have exercised critical thinking.

1220
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 3: I'm not taking total you know, like taking it totally

1221
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: off the victims shoulders. But the thing is is that

1222
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 3: the you know, you need to give more credit to

1223
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 3: the skill of the con artist and give more credit

1224
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 3: to the vulnerable situation that you were in.

1225
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: You were played on by a predator who is specific.

1226
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 3: Right, instead of instead of instead of looking to the

1227
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 3: blame part of it, you know, right, that doesn't help

1228
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 3: internalizing self blame on something where you were ripped off

1229
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 3: by a professional con unist or help.

1230
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: Right, Oh my god, Yeah, you're the best, Bob, really,

1231
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: thank you, You're doing God's work. Honestly, this is this

1232
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: has been really really awesome. Are there any final thoughts

1233
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: that you would like to share? And also let us

1234
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: know where people can find you on the internet if

1235
00:55:59,320 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: that's a thing.

1236
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, people can just google my

1237
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 3: name and then you know, everything pops up. You know,

1238
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 3: you just google Bob Niguard and then my Twitter page

1239
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 3: is there with my email address and my phone number

1240
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 3: on it. You know, people contact me from all over

1241
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: the world. I mean, I got a call coming the

1242
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 3: other day. It's in Mainland China on my phone. It's

1243
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 3: a woman. She's in mainland China. She ripped off by

1244
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 3: a psychic when she was in the United States, and

1245
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 3: she got my name off of Twitter, off the internet.

1246
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 3: So it's just really it's just very simple. Just google

1247
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 3: my name, you know, even if you put it psychic scam,

1248
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: my name pops up.

1249
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 4: With That's how I found you. That's how I found you.

1250
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 6: It's like, so.

1251
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: It's you know, there's not many people doing this, you know,

1252
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 3: so so that's you know, not not hard that way.

1253
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 4: So it's Bob my guard N Y G A A

1254
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 4: R D.

1255
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct. Yeah. I just want to say that I think,

1256
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 3: you know, this podcast is doing just a wonderful job

1257
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 3: of helping people to understand the dynamics of what is

1258
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 3: involved with cults and uh and now you know, having

1259
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 3: me on about psychics and it's just so important, you know,

1260
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 3: the education that you're providing, you know. I'm just I

1261
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,720
Speaker 3: was thrilled to get this call to be on this show,

1262
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: and uh, and I think that it's going to help

1263
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 3: a lot of people, you know, And I think that

1264
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 3: you and I listened to some of your past shows,

1265
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 3: and I, you know, I learned a lot in just

1266
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: listening to your past shows. And I think you've you've

1267
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 3: helped many people that you don't even know.

1268
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 4: Oh, I appreciate that so much.

1269
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1270
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: Same yeah, same, awesome. Well, I appreciate you so much.

1271
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: And I guess we'll say goodbye.

1272
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to, Okay, bye, And there we

1273
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 2: have it.

1274
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: Bob Nightguard. Everyone absolutely love him. He's doing really great work.

1275
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: Just just a delight. So Megan, Yeah, curious. Do you

1276
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: believe that you yourself have any kind of psychic power?

1277
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 6: Oh?

1278
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: No, I would say I have the opposite of psychic power.

1279
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 4: What does the opposite of psychic power look like?

1280
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 2: I will just be like I think this might happen,

1281
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: and then the exact opposite will happen. Or if I

1282
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 2: watch any game, I'm like, I think they'll win and

1283
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 2: then they don't.

1284
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 4: I will say that.

1285
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: I have had dreams that have happened in kind of

1286
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: weird ways. There's this very interesting Oprah interview with this

1287
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: basketball player who is going to be the next Michael Jordan,

1288
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: and he kept having this recurring dream of like laying

1289
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: on the ground seeing this fire hydrant and feeling totally

1290
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: hopeless and seeing the sky and then he got in

1291
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: this really bad motorcycle accident and paralyzed himself, and that's

1292
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: what he saw, and he was just like, holy shit,

1293
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: I've been dreaming this for my whole life.

1294
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: While that is a crazy story, you know what I'm

1295
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: going to say, right, yes, yeah, which is of course

1296
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: that that is only notable because that happened. But for

1297
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: all of the millions and millions of other instances of

1298
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: us having recurring dreams that do not connect to anything

1299
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: that happens, we don't take note of them because they're

1300
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: not interesting. But of course when something like that happens,

1301
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: it always feels crazy. When I was a kid, I

1302
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: was convinced that I knew when something bad was happening

1303
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: to my family member because it had happened like two

1304
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: or three times where I would just like get this

1305
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: horrible feeling, and then I found out that my brother

1306
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: had broken his arm, or I'd get this horrible feeling,

1307
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: and I'd find out that my mom had been assaulted.

1308
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: You know, that happened like it probably like three times.

1309
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: So I was super convinced. But looking back, I'm like,

1310
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: what about all those other times? That I got that

1311
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: feeling and nothing had happened, and I was just like

1312
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: having a fearful night for some reason. Yep, they're just

1313
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: not as interesting to think about.

1314
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 5: So no, they're not.

1315
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that you know something isn't happening,

1316
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: and I would don't understand, Yeah for sure, but for now,

1317
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: how thats skeptical lie as I always do, as either

1318
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: the lolo we know in love I mean or hate

1319
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. It's all fine, it's all fine, Yeah,

1320
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: it's true.

1321
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, Merry Christmas.

1322
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna take next week off to try to embrace

1323
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: the giant COVID wave that's happening and have a happy

1324
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: holiday regardless.

1325
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 4: Somehow.

1326
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: I hope you're all healthy and safe and have a

1327
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: very happy holiday.

1328
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 5: Have the happiest of holidays.

1329
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 2: Remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags,

1330
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 2: and never ever trust me.

1331
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 6: Well bye,