1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Guess what mango was that? Well, today we're doing a 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: show on cheese crimes. I've been excited for this one, 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: So I've got a question for you to kick things off. 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: So what's the first thing that comes to mind when 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: I say cheese crime? Because there's so many things that 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: could come to mind. What comes to mind for you? 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: I know there's gonna be a pop quiz, Yeah, someone 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: committing a crime with cheese, like maybe blusheoning someone with 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: like a huge wheel of parmesan and then eating that parmesan. 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: So there's a murder weapon. Oh, that would be like 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 2: the perfect crime. 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe just using cheese whiz in a sandwich, 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: which is kind of a cheese crime. 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: I feel like, out, I look the way you just 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: quickly planned to murder around a wheel of cheese and 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: then you dissed the giant part of Philadelphia culture. This 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: is all in the first minute of the show. But 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: the thing is, cheese is reportedly the most shoplift did 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: food in the world. Plus it's the target of all 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: sorts of craziness from stealing and grifting to tyst and 23 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: even smuggling. 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: So this whole episode is kind of just a bad 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: setup for a nacho cheese jokes. 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: That's the whole reason. That's why I'm excited for this. 27 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: All right, let's dive in. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: I'm Will and as always, I'm here with my good 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: friend Mango, and somewhere behind that big booth is our 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: pal Dylan, who has a giant can of easy cheese 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: and a plate full of crackers that actually Mango, I 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: think he's preparing for us. The guy's just so generous. 33 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 1: I love that he made us a snack. I guess 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: he didn't want us to be angry. But speaking of 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: cheese crimes, I know this is a little off topic, 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: but can you retell that story about that time you 37 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: stopped at a gas station and was. 38 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: So I didn't think we were going to go there, 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: but yeah, so I was in a hurry to a 40 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: meeting one day, and for whatever reason, it had been 41 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: an ongoing joke about grabbing a hot dog from a 42 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: gas station with a group of friends. I truly was 43 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 2: in a rush, was filling up with gas and I 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I'm going to do it. 45 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to get a gas station hot dog because 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: I was angry, and so I grabbed one. I go 47 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: out to the car, finished, you know, filling up the tank. 48 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: I take a bite of This is going to sound 49 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: like terrible. I took a bite of the hot dog 50 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: and suddenly I feel something like hot, like squirt the 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: back of my throat, which I hate to even say 52 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: those words. And I looked and the hot dog had 53 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: been cheese injected. And I had heard of these before, 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: and I know that they exist. I have no interest 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: in them, but I also just I want to heads 56 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: up when my hot dog is going to have cheese 57 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: in it, and I didn't know, and so, needless to say, 58 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 2: I did not finish the hot dog. It is the 59 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: last time I've had a gas station hot dog. So yeah, 60 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: that's the story. 61 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: It's a good warning to all our listeners to check 62 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: out the label on the hot you always find out 63 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: whether it's cheese injected. Yeah, so let's get started. I 64 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: know the reason we chose this episode is that we 65 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: both heard that shoplifting fact about cheese, like that's the 66 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: most shoplifted food. And I'd also heard about this parmesan mafia. 67 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: So I was curious what the real story was there. 68 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: But why don't we start with just a quick list 69 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: of how expensive cheese can be. So here's a quick 70 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: top three of expensive cheeses I found on a site 71 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: called Chef's Pencil. So number one is Pool, which is 72 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: a donkey cheese. Talked about this before, but just to 73 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: get a sense of how expensive it is. For comparison, 74 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: grocery store cheddars can go for about six dollars a pound, 75 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: Mozzarella might go for like eight dollars a pound, but 76 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: pool goes for six hundred dollars. 77 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 78 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: And the reason is it's mostly made of donkey milk. Right, 79 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: It's sixty percent donkey milk forty percent goat milk. So 80 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: donkeys are doing the heavy lifting there. And apparently, unlike goats, 81 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: donkeys are stingy milk givers, like you have to milk 82 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: them three times a day. They only give milk six 83 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: months of the year, so production is really tricky. Plus 84 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: there's only one farm that makes pool, and it's in 85 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: the donkey reserve in Serbia, right. 86 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: Right, you know, for whatever reason, I have not seen 87 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: this six hundred dollars pound cheese in the Pickley Wiggly 88 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: in Alabama. But my question is is it any good? 89 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I love that you're asking me, like 90 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: I have like caviar and pool breath this morning. But 91 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: so if you do a quick internet search, it's supposedly 92 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: nutty and earthy, and it tastes like manchigo. It doesn't 93 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: sound like that special. But I actually read this review 94 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: from this cheese blogger, Missed cheesemonger, who's a cheese connoisseur 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: from San Francisco, and it immediately made me want to 96 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: try some. 97 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: So this is what she says. 98 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: Quote. Once I took a bite, I understood what made 99 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 1: this cheese special. There were so many layers a flavor, 100 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 1: from demi cell butter at the foundation to the middle 101 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: flavors of sweet grasses to the extremely heady floral notes 102 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: that lingered in a ridiculously long finish. This was no 103 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: ordinary fresh cheese. It was aromatic to the extreme. I 104 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: might as well have been inhaling the scent of milk 105 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: on a Serbian hillside. Texture Wise, it is not so unusual. Oh, 106 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: but that lingering, longing aftertaste, it was like nothing I 107 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: had ever tasted. 108 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: I actually just ordered some on Amazon while you were 109 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: talking about it. It sounded so appealing. 110 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: So she points out there are only about one hundred 111 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: jennies or female donkeys that can produce the milk for 112 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: the special cheese, and the fresh cheese is often best 113 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: eaten the day it's made, which I'm sure also drives 114 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: up that price. 115 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: And actually that's the cheese that Djokovic was supposedly trying 116 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: to corner the market on, right. 117 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I heard so much about that. 118 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: It was basically this drummed up story that the producers 119 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: at the farm and a poorly sourced Daily Mail article 120 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: made up. But Djokovic apparently has no interest in a 121 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: monopoly on donkey cheese. 122 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: Okay, mainly tennis y okay, got it's all right? So 123 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: that's number one. What's number two on your list? Moose cheese, okay. 124 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: Which feels like it could use better branding than just 125 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: moose cheese. But it goes for five hundred dollars a pound, 126 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: and again it's. 127 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: The steel compared with some donkey. 128 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: Cheese, pretty laborious because you're trying to milk a twelve 129 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: hundred pound moose here It's made from a place called 130 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: the Elkhouse in Sweden, and according to Chef's pencil, all 131 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: the moose cheese comes from three moose named Goulan, Juna, 132 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: and Helga. Okay, Helga's cheese is my favorite, obviously. 133 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, of course, wow that is that's fascinating. 134 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: I do want to try both of those. And I 135 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: feel like all these cheeses are expensive because they're not 136 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: goat or cow cheeses. So I'm I'm predicting number three 137 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: is going to be elephant cheese. 138 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: Am I right? Well, no elephant cheese on my list. 139 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: But I do feel like the next few cheeses that 140 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: are listed across the internet as the most expensive cheeses 141 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: are kind of frauds. Like there's Stilt and Gold, which 142 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: is flecked with this edible gold leaf, which I don't 143 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: feel like it should count because it's almost like like saying, like, 144 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean you the world's most expensive burger, and I 145 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: put truffles under a big matt something right, Like, it's 146 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: not really expensive on its own. But I'm going to 147 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: say Number three is Wyke Farm Cheddar. It's supposedly this 148 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: incredibly tasty cheddar. It sells for two hundred dollars a pound, 149 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: and the family that makes it has kept the recipe 150 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: of secret since eighteen sixty one. 151 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So at two hundred dollars a pound, 152 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: if you're stealing one of these giant wheels of cheddar, 153 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: you could make a lot of money off of that. 154 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: But doesn't it feel like stealing one of these super 155 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: expensive cheeses is almost like stealing a Picasso off the 156 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: wall of a museum, like it's worth a lot more. 157 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: But also someone is going to be looking for you. 158 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's some cheese detectives out there who specialize 159 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: in cheese thefts, which is pretty amazing. 160 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: I love that as a job. All right, I do 161 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: want to hear about that, But before we do, let's 162 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: talk about cheese's origins. So just a quick primer on this. 163 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: While we don't know the first instance of humans making cheese, 164 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: we do know that cheesemaking is related to the domestication 165 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: of milk producer animals, no surprise there, now that goes 166 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: back about eight to ten thousand years ago. You can 167 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: also find cheesemaking in Greek mythology, which is pretty interesting 168 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: to see. And there's evidence of cheese and cheesemaking that's 169 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: been found on Egyptian two murals. These date back probably 170 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: four thousands incredible. Yeah, it's a long time ago. But 171 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: the truth is cheese was probably discovered accidentally. 172 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: So I actually remember that bit because we did a 173 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: show about craft singles and we talked about how cheese, penicillin, 174 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: and the slinky were like the greatest accidental distoperies. 175 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: Easy, easy, top three, all equally important. But there are 176 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: a few different theories of how we got cheese. It 177 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: could have been the practice of storing milk and containers 178 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: made from stomachs of animals. We've talked about that a 179 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: little bit which naturally contained this enzyme called rennet, and 180 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: that would cause the milk to coagulate it separates into 181 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: curds and whey. Now, another possibility is the practice of 182 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: salting curdled milk for preservation, or the addition of fruit 183 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: juices to milk, which would result in the curdling of 184 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: the milk. 185 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: It's kind of like how my kids accidentally make cheese 186 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: when they leave a carton of milk in the back 187 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: of the fridge. Cheae long, but I can't imagine eating that. 188 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: Now, It's not the type of thing Dylan I think 189 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 2: would serve on a ritz cracker. I don't seed on 190 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: the plate back there, but if you dump some salt 191 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: on that glop, you basically have early cheese. The Roman 192 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: Empire produced and traded hundreds of varieties of cheese, so 193 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: it was certainly an industry back then, and trade with 194 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: Europe could explain how the cheese got to Asia. But 195 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: there could have been parallel thinking at work here too, 196 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: the Tibetans, the Mongolians, They've also got this long history 197 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: of producing cheeses. And of course cheese has been produced 198 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: in America since the early seventeenth century, when the English 199 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: Puritans brought their knowledge of dairy farming and cheesemaking from 200 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: the Old World over to the colonies. 201 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: Right and now Americans are so obsessed with cheese that 202 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: we feel comfortable wearing like giant cheese hats on our 203 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: heads to sports games. 204 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: I love those cheeseheats. I've always though about getting one. 205 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: I never have. But interestingly, Wisconsin didn't start out in 206 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: the cheese business really. This date was actually a leading 207 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: wheat supplier before the Civil War, but as crop eels 208 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: started to fail, Wisconsin farmers knew they needed to pivot 209 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: to something, and they pivoted to dairy. Now. At the 210 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: same time, settlers from New England and Ohio and New 211 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: York and other places in that region they started moving west, 212 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 2: as did the Europeans. So all of these folks start 213 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: bringing this interest in cheese and knowledge of cheese production 214 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: to the area. So the result is today that Wisconsin 215 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: produces more than a quarter of all domestic cheese in 216 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: the US. 217 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: I had no idea about that. 218 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, cheese is of course a huge business, part of 219 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: why we're talking about it here. But the US cheese 220 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: retail market is growing and it's slated to reach twenty 221 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: seven point eight billion dollars by twenty twenty eight. 222 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: Wow. 223 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: The retail cheese sales in the UK are expected to 224 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: reach five point two billion euros by twenty twenty eight. 225 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: So obviously a huge amounts of money and it makes 226 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: on That's why cheese crime is a thing. 227 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as commodities that are worth stealing, 228 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: cheese is ripe. But yeah, you like what I did there, 229 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: But think about it compared to the other dairy products. 230 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: It's durable and it's easy to transport. It doesn't melt 231 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: like ice cream or spill or leak or spoil as 232 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: fast as milk, and it's ubiquitous like it's in cuisines 233 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: around the world. People everywhere love cheese, which makes it 234 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: easier to sell. Plus, unlike guns or drugs, cheese is 235 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: mostly legal, which is a good segue into some cheese jackings. 236 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: This was a big thing in Italy back in two 237 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: thousand and six. Apparently gangs would lie in wait at 238 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 2: service stations on the Milan Bologna Motorway and as soon 239 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: as a truck driver would stop for coffee, they'd ambush them. 240 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 241 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: It kind of makes driving a cheese truck seem pretty dangerous. 242 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And in one instance, a driver was threatened by 243 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: four armed men and then tied up while his van 244 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: carrying three hundred wheels of cheese was driven away. The 245 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: cheese wheels were then taken to this industrial estate. They 246 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: were cut up and sold in stores. And this happened 247 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: for quite a while with different bands of criminals. In 248 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, a group of criminals were arrested in Moderna 249 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: for stealing roughly nine hundred thousand dollars worth of parmesan cheese. Yeah, 250 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: and according to the Italian news site Al Sol twenty four, 251 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: the criminals were so savvy that they stole over twenty 252 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: thirty nine wheels of parmesan reggiano cheese over the course 253 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: of roughly two years. 254 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: It feels so weird that there's basically this like Ocean's 255 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: eleven of cheese. I don't know, there's something fascinating about it, 256 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 2: but in general, it must be so hard to catch 257 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: a cheese thief because it's not like you can track 258 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: these like using GPS or anything like that. 259 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So producers and the Italian farmers union, which is 260 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: called Colderetti, are experimenting with microchips and they're hidden in 261 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: the crusts of the cheese, which means they are actually 262 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: more identifiable. They also have marketings burnt on the crust 263 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: so that you can help police track the stolen cheese. 264 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: But it's still a huge problem. A survey by Coldoretti 265 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: found that parmesan is the most shoplifted item in Italy. 266 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's a little different than here where it's 267 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 2: mostly like I would guess, batteries and deodorant or something 268 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: like that. 269 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, we might need that deodorant because 270 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: we're also hard at work stealing cheese. It's not just Italy. 271 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, seventy thousand pounds of cheese were stolen 272 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: from a cheese store in Germantown, Wisconsin and later recovered 273 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. Apparently the thieves i'mdoing was trying to sell 274 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: the cheese on the cheap, like they tried to hawk 275 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: their contraband cheese for just a dollar a pound. And 276 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: as you well know, no self respecting Wisconsin retailer would 277 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: expect to pay so total, and nor would they buy 278 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: the cheese without knowing its prominence. But you know, these 279 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: thefts they make the Wisconsin cheese community really really upset. 280 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: There's this guy, Tyson Wormheister, the co owner of Mars 281 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: Cheese Castle, and he said, a cheese like that not 282 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: available for use. It saddens me. 283 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: I feel like I need to know what Mars Cheese 284 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: Castle is. 285 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: It's a castle shaped restaurant specializing in cheese. 286 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds a bite right. Well, I know we 287 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: want to talk more about cheese crimes and of course 288 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: those cheese detectives that you teased earlier, but let's take 289 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: a quick break first. Welcome back to part time genius 290 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: where we're talking cheese crimes. So there are obviously lots 291 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: of these cheese stuff stories. There's this one from twenty 292 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: thirteen where a guy showed up to a manufacturer in Wisconsin, 293 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: forged a bunch of paperwork, then drove away with two 294 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars worth of monster. There's a story from 295 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: France in twenty fifteen where thieves broke into a dairy 296 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: and stole one hundred wheels of specialty Conte cheese. They 297 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: boosted four tons four tons of cheese. And there's another 298 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: of these high stories from a seller in France where 299 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: seven hundred blocks of delicious Saint Nectar cheese were stolen. 300 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: It's amazing, I mean, just how much cheese these bandits 301 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: are taking off with. It's not a little bit of cheese. Yeah, 302 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: it's insane, which brings us to cheese detectives. This is 303 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: great piece on the Today Show site about this officer. 304 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: His name is Inspector Georgia Cappovanni, which sounds right for 305 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: a cheese detective. 306 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: And this is from two thousand and eight, so it's 307 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: a little dated, but the agency actually still exists. But 308 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: this is what the article says about him. Quote in 309 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: the Wild West of gastronomical ripoffs, men like Cappovanni are 310 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: a kind of sheriff. They're sworn judicial officers who can 311 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: demand admission to premises, examine documentation, and confiscate products at wholesalers, 312 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: warehouses or supermarket aisles. And according to the article, they 313 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: can even tote weapons if they want. It talks about 314 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: how Cappavanni and his men race around Europe protecting Italy's 315 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: very special products like matrella from Buffala is one, hams 316 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: from Parma or whatever. They'll go into what the article 317 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: describes as cathedrals of ham, the shops where the meat 318 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: is just air drying, and warehouses, and they'll poke the 319 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: hem with this special needle made from the shin bone 320 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: of a horse and that apparently releases these extraordinary aromas. 321 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Then the inspector, who I guess is also a gormand 322 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: will sniff the needle to make sure it has that 323 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: special Parma proscudo scent. A friendly they see something like 324 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: a thousand Parma ham knockoffs in one of these raids. 325 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: And then how do they catch these folks? 326 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: Apparently one of these ham counterfeiters had like twenty aliases 327 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and the Spanish police have been chasing them around for decades. 328 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: But Capavani and his team have this whole network of 329 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: salespeople who double as informants, and so they tip off 330 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: the investigators whenever they scent something fishy. 331 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: There are people out there doing much more interesting stuff 332 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: then we are legal and illegal. But are they now 333 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: doing this for cheese as well? 334 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah? And more than stopping the heist, this team is 335 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: basically set up to chase ripoffs, right, Like the producers 336 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: know that if people start thinking parmeham is a less 337 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: quality ham and it's less sweet, then they'll start thinking like, 338 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: what's the difference between that and some of those sort 339 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: of like grocery knockoffs or whatever. Right, And it's the 340 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: same for cheese. So there's this scene of Cappavanni running 341 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: his hand across the rind and pointing out why this 342 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: branding on a food is clearly counterfeit. Apparently there's a 343 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: whole system of branding machines that the authenticated manufacturers use 344 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: that makes slightly imperfect marks to thwart counterfeiters, and the 345 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: machines are really closely monitored. They're switched out every three months, 346 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: which you know feels insane, but Cappavanni takes pride and 347 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: sniffing out the fakes, and in fact, he claims to 348 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: have a museum of hundreds of fraudulent parmesans. 349 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, there's this whole world of fakes out there. 350 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: This is one of the things that kept coming up 351 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: as we were preparing for this episode. And you know, 352 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 2: the old saying I think is something like if your 353 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: cheese is fishy, it might be sawdust. I don't think, 354 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: I don't think. I know that's not familiar with that one. 355 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: I think mamma had it cross stitched on a pillow point. 356 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 2: But back in twenty sixteen, Time revealed a jaw dropping 357 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: report on manufacturers like Castle Cheese, not to be confused 358 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 2: with the Mars cheese Castle that you talked about before, 359 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: which produced quote parmesan that contains significant amounts of woodpulp 360 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 2: as a filler. 361 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: It's like a cheese made for termites. 362 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: Yes, it's gross. And some experts believe about a fifth 363 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: of the parmesan cheese bought at grocery stores is actually mislabeled. 364 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: And representatives for the Emman Taylor Cheesemakers, which we usually 365 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: referred to as Swiss cheese. Say that around ten percent 366 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: of the Swiss cheese of the market is fake. It's 367 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: true for all kinds of cheese and chego Camembert, but 368 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 2: parmesan is hit particularly hard. Sales of parmegano regiano cheese 369 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: are about two point four to four billion, according to 370 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: Food and Wine, but fake parmesan takes an almost equal 371 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: wedge of the wheel, with about two point oh eight 372 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: billion dollars every single year. 373 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: I didn't realize the size of the market. 374 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, weirdly, cheese has been stuffed with more sinister 375 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: substances than just sawdust. And twenty twenty three customs officials 376 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 2: encountered a pickup truck transporting four large wheels of cheese 377 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 2: from Mexico into Texas, and they had hunch that something 378 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: was off. 379 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: Here, which doesn't sound strange at all. I always load 380 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: up my truck with the giant cheese wheels. 381 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, actually an X ray scan of 382 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 2: these cheese revealed quote anomalies there, which upon further inspection, 383 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: turned out to be seventeen point eight pounds of cocaine. 384 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: So that steals like that's an anomaly, you know, yes, yeah, 385 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: now this is fair. I have never I don't think 386 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: I've eaten cheese with a bunch of cocaine. But it's 387 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: a good idea hiding stuff in cheese. Like if you 388 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: wanted to propose, and you put a diamond ring and 389 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: you know, deep in a wheel of cheese, there your 390 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: you know your potential fiance would never go digging around 391 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: in there. It's a great place to hide stuff. 392 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: Speaking of soft cheeses, do you know that Switzerland used 393 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: to have a cartel that was responsible for the popular 394 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: already a fun. 395 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: Due Wait did you say a cartel? I mean it 396 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: was more of a union, all right, So why did 397 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 2: you say cartel? Though? I'm curious. 398 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: I'm a Brooklyn dad. I need some excitement, and I 399 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: guess more than a few articles online referred to it 400 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: as a cartel because of the way they fixed prices 401 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: and manipulated the market. Anyway, it was called the Association 402 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: of Swiss Cheese Export Firms, better known as the Schweizer 403 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: kas Union okay or Swiss Cheese Union. This was an 404 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: organized monopoly designed to use cheese export revenue to offset 405 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: and milk production costs. Because of World War One and 406 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: the SCU fixed prices and production limits, and most importantly, 407 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: they restricted what types of cheese could be made in 408 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: the country. So actually Switzerland used to make over one 409 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: thousand different varietals and they reduced it to just seven 410 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: or eight, and they favored Swiss cheese, you know, or 411 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: what we know as Swiss cheese. It was super effective. 412 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty nine, Wisconsin newspaper reported that consumption of 413 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: Swiss cheese had increased in the US because of a 414 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars ad campaign run by the Swiss 415 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: Cheese Union, which it also copyrighted the cheese in the US, 416 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: calling it Switzerland Cheese. 417 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 2: And so that's why when we say Swiss cheese, we 418 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: mean Emma Taylor. 419 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was just the beginning. In the fifties 420 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: and sixties, the SEU ramped up their promotions and they 421 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: sent a young woman named Elizabeth Koenigstor to the US 422 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: as the ambassad Dress of Switzerland Cheese. 423 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 2: It's a great title. 424 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: She was beautiful, multilingual, and expert skier, just kind of 425 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: like the perfect cliche of like a Swiss woman. And 426 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: she would travel the US giving these cooking lessons for 427 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: dishes like Kisch Lorraine and fondue, and also teaching Americans 428 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: things like you're not supposed to freeze your cheese, which 429 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: was apparently a thing we used to do regularly. Anyway, 430 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: the SEU went really hard on fondue in the seventies, 431 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: mainly because it's easy to make and it requires a 432 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: lot of cheese. So they really sort of like flooded 433 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: the interesting and making fond and they ran these global 434 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: ad campaigns featuring these beautiful Swiss people in ski sweaters, 435 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: making it seem kind of healthy, healthy. 436 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: It does sound like they're marketing and almost like a 437 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 2: sports drink in a way. You know. 438 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like everyone should sub out your Gatorade 439 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: for a thermos of Swisses. 440 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 2: Really appetizing manga. 441 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: But the SEU was everywhere. From nineteen ninety two to 442 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, they were the main sponsor of the 443 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: Swiss national ski team. So the team's actually wore these 444 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: yellow suits with cheesehole motifs. I mean, I just want 445 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: to show you this. 446 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 2: Picture that is amazing. 447 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: They look like the cheese, I know, and they actually 448 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: had holes in their suit which caused drag, which is 449 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: kind of annoying to a skier. 450 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 2: I'm sure. 451 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 452 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like you're representing your country in 453 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: this huge athletic excellence performance and you've trained your whole 454 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: life to wear the uniform and the cheese suit. It 455 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: feels a little bit demeaning to me. 456 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. Anyway, By the nineteen nineties, 457 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: the Swiss Center meant towards the SEU had changed. It 458 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: was seen less as a protector of this like national industry, 459 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: and more's a system of power abuse. Corruption scandals didn't 460 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: help either. In nineteen ninety six, a former SEU executive 461 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: was arrested for skimming at least three hundred and fifty 462 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: thousand Swiss francs and a cheese export price scam, and 463 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine the SEU was dissolved the Swiss 464 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: Museum rights quote. During the eighties and nineties, the Cheese 465 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: Union came to be regarded principally as a cautionary tale 466 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: of abuse of power in fondue. 467 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: The abuse of fondue. That's great, all right, but I 468 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: feel like we should get back to your boring Brooklyn 469 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: dad thing. 470 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I said boring. 471 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know, when you were talking about cartels, and 472 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 2: there have been these links between the cheese industry and 473 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: the mafia. There's this story about al Capone, who owned 474 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: this string of dairy farms near Fondu Lac, Wisconsin, forcing 475 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 2: New York pizzerias to use this very like rubbery mob cheese. 476 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 2: And as the story goes, the only places permitted to 477 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: use good mozzarella where the old fashioned pizza parlers, you know, 478 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: places like Lombardes, Patsy's, John's, which could continue doing so 479 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: only if they promised to never serve slices. So, according 480 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: to the author Jonathan Quitney in his book Vicious Circles 481 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: the Mafia in the Marketplace, this is why John's Pizzeria 482 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 2: on Bleeker Street still has the warning no slices on 483 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: its awning today. Apparently neighborhood pizzerias that serve slices and 484 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 2: refuse to use Copone's cheese would be firebombed. But according 485 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: to historian Scott Wiener that we both know from Scott's 486 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 2: Pizza tours, the story is probably not true. It doesn't 487 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: really make any sense. He says, the reason that most 488 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 2: of these places don't sell slices is that they use 489 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: these coal fired ovens, which would just burn any slice 490 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: that you were trying to reheat. 491 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: I love Scott so much. I remember the first time 492 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: I met him and I heard he was pizza obsessed. 493 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: His opening line was, so, what do you like about pizza? 494 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 495 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like the CRSs the cheese, and then 496 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: you just like went on to you know, give me 497 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: this fascinating history of pizza. But I just assume tho's 498 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: no slices places were trying to sell you more pizza. 499 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they are. But the no slices might 500 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 2: be a little bit of mafia lore, but the mob 501 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: shaking down people over mozzarella is on the record. So 502 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 2: Joseph Banano, a mafia godfather, partially owned Grande this cheese 503 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: company based in Fondula, Wisconsin. That's where components handful of 504 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: dairy farms were two. So this March nineteen eighty report 505 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 2: from the Pennsylvania Crime Commission states that Banano quote initiated 506 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: a conspiracy to control the specialty cheese business in the 507 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 2: United States in the early nineteen forties, and that he 508 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: and his associates controlled the activities of the largest and 509 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: most prosperous specialty cheese companies I love. 510 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: That they came out with that report in nineteen eighty. 511 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, said I wanted to go ahead and take 512 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: care of it. Yeah. 513 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: So we've got the mobs like this potential to make 514 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: a lot of money and they're putting a toll hold 515 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: in the industry, which is, you know, pretty standard for 516 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: the mob. But I also kind of love the idea 517 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: of al Capone having his own dairy farm and just 518 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: like sweet right, I know, just like nuzzling every cow's 519 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: nose before he puts them in the barn at night. 520 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird image. But since we're on the mob, 521 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 2: the Italian mafia, or more specifically, the Camora, is also 522 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: pretty mixed up with buffalo mozzarella, which is made in Campania. Now, 523 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 2: in the early aughts, the Camora controlled Italy's biggest buffalo 524 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: mozzarella maker, the Magara Group. Now, obviously, mozzarella is hugely 525 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: popular as a cheese, which meant buffalo milk was basically 526 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: liquid gold for the most part, and that's what attracted 527 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: the interest of the Camara. So the Kamora started charging 528 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: this protection money sure, and in early two thousand and one, 529 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 2: during one weekend, two well known cheese houses just went 530 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 2: up in Flames, La Perla and Barlodi, which helped them 531 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 2: make their case to the man manufacturers. Of course, taking 532 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: care of barns full of buffalo comes with its own problems, 533 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 2: like apparently buffalo are very susceptible to infectious bacterial outbreaks 534 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: like bruce iliosis, and controlling these farms suspected of bruceiliosis 535 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: isn't easy and it requires you know, herd depopulation from 536 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 2: time to time, and obviously that's not great for mozzarella production. 537 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: So often state veterinarians would show up to inspect the 538 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: farm and instead of getting to do their work, they'd 539 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: be met by the members of the Kamora at gunpoint. 540 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: Like sometimes the mobsters would within the herd by hiding 541 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: a bunch of buffalo. 542 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: So state officials are there, they're inspecting the farm. Meanwhile, 543 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: it's like one guy's job to hide a bunch of 544 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: sick buffalo. 545 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: I guess, I mean buffalo are huge, though, it's like 546 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 2: trying to hide a pack of land rovers. You know, 547 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: just starting to imagine this. But if that didn't work, 548 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: they would just force sanitary officials to sign the certificate 549 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: of good health despite the fact that the herd is 550 00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 2: clearly infected. 551 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, seems like an easier plan be Yeah. 552 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Kumora's involvement in Buffalo mozzarella has actually 553 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: threatened the ecosystem of the entire region. They got involved 554 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: with waste management back in the nineteen eighties, and according 555 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: to a mafia treasurer who testified about this in nineteen 556 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: ninety seven, the Kumora had been illegally dumping and burning 557 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: millions of tons of toxic waste in Campania, leading to 558 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: reports of cancer clusters and other health issues. 559 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: That's awful. So obviously a cheese can be involved in crime, 560 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: but there's no such thing as illegal cheese, right. 561 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Danish feta is actually illegal. According to 562 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: the EU, feta was awarded the appellation of being a 563 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: designated Greek product, but Denmark was producing it and exporting 564 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: it to non EU territories, and so in twenty nineteen, 565 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: the European Commission took Denmark to the European Court of Justice. 566 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: And of course there are really gross cheeses, like you know, 567 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: Kasu marzu, so that's illegal too. 568 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Sardinian cheese with maggots that jump out at you, 569 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: which is pretty disgusting. 570 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: I'd say that that counts as disgusting. And there's a 571 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: hairy cheese fermented in the stomach of a baby goat 572 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: and left out in the open air. It's this delicacy, 573 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 2: also from Sardinia called Soukalu, and people are apparently selling 574 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: it from their cars. I guess that's what I read. 575 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: It's according to this piece and the outline. But it's interesting. 576 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: The outline rights that these illegal cheeses aren't just a 577 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: matter of unusual taste. There are also low stakes political 578 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: statements of people telling the EU or whoever they can, 579 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: that they can't dictate values on them. Yeah. 580 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I don't want any of that 581 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: maggot cheese in my mouth. But I also support Sardinia's 582 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: right to protect their culture. 583 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: It's good for you to take a stand. Mag I 584 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: usually it'll make political statements, but that's a pretty big one. 585 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: And here's the mystery cheese you can definitely support. It's 586 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: amazing how much cheese comes up in crime novels, right, seriously, Yeah, 587 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many crime novels with cheese puns 588 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: in the title. There's just a few examples here up 589 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 2: to no gouda to bree or not to bree final 590 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: fondue that sounds dramatic, clabbered by camon Bear. I told 591 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: you there's so many of these shudder off Dale, No, No, 592 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: these are I swear, I am not making these up. 593 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: These are all real titles of books that you can 594 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: probably buy at the airport, I would guess. 595 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, I know you've got a flight to catch, 596 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: But how about we do a quick fact off before 597 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: you fly out? 598 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: Let's do it all right, here's a quick one. Did 599 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: you know cheese can get you high? 600 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely shotgun to Pizzar before, so I 601 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: think it tracks. 602 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. Well. According to a twenty fifteen study 603 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: at Mount Sinai, there's a chemical in cheese called casin, 604 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 2: and when you digest it, it can trigger your brain's opioid receptors, 605 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: which may be why we loved going out for late 606 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: night cheese dip in college so much. 607 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah we did. Do you know that eatam cheese never 608 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: goes back? It just hardens, which is why it was 609 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: often taken to sea. And I hadn't realized that. It 610 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: actually explains one of my favorite facts that eatam cheese 611 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: was used by a navy ship in Uruguay when it 612 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: ran out of cannonballs, and it actually want to battle 613 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: that way, which makes more sense why they had so 614 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: much old cheese on board. 615 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: Now, okay, all right, well here's a fun one from Kotkey. 616 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: Did you know that in French pie charts are actually 617 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: called les Camembert after the cheese or sometimes and I'm 618 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: going to need Jess who's helping today, pronounce this one. 619 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: But is un diagram in fromage that is so far 620 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: away from what it works. Okay, we're going to go 621 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 2: with it, which is her way of saying it was 622 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 2: so off that we're just going to have to ignore it. 623 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: A cheese diagram. So meanwhile, in Brazil, pie charts are 624 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 2: known as pizza charts. 625 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: Which makes sense. Brazil is supposedly one of the places 626 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: that has the best pizza in the world. Speaking of pizza, 627 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: you remember stuff crust pizza from Pizza Hut do I yeah, 628 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: we'll ask. 629 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: For it sometimes and these commercials where they encouraged you 630 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: to eat the pizza the wrong way, crust first. 631 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: And weirdly, Donald Trump was the spokesperson. Okay, but Pizza 632 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: had developed that in nineteen ninety five and sales of 633 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: it were insane, apparently over three hundred million dollars of 634 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: sales in the first year. And this is from an 635 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: article in mash dot com. But the crazier thing is 636 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: that foods that are stuffed with cheese, like the stuff 637 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: pressed pizza or Taco Bell's caesalupa, are guided by an 638 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: organization called Dairy Management INK, and Bloomberg actually refers to 639 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: them as the Illuminati of Cheese. 640 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 641 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is from a Bloomberg article. For the 642 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: past eight years, the group has been the hidden hand 643 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: guiding most of fast foods dairy hits, including and especially 644 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: the caesalalupa. In twenty twelve, it embedded food scientists Lisam 645 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: and Clintalk with the Taco Bell product development team to 646 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: develop a cheese filling that would stretch like taffy when heated. 647 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: Then they figured out how to mass produce it and 648 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: helped invent some proprietary machinery along the way. So apparently 649 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 1: the group has a two hundred million dollar budget from 650 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: cheese manufacturers to create cheese centric products to slip more 651 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: cheese into our food isn't that incredible? 652 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: That is wild you You really saved the best for 653 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: last and this whole thing. I don't think I can 654 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: top an illuminati of cheese, especially in a cheese crime episode. 655 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: So with that, I'm going to give you today's fact 656 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 2: Off Trophy. 657 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: Fun and I'm going to dedicate this to my colleague 658 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: Kate's dog, who I am certain is listening, always listens 659 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: to our show. His name is Cheesy or Cheese for short. 660 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 2: I like that. I'm sure he'll appreciate that. All right, Well, 661 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: that's it for this week's Part Time Genius. Thanks everybody 662 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: for listening. 663 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 664 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongaytiguler 665 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode 666 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with 667 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced for 668 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social media 669 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: support from Sasha Gay, trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. 670 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio 671 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.