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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 4: But enough with that, Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Immigrants, we'll add seven trillion with eighty dollars to the

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Speaker 1: gross domestic product of the United States over the next

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Speaker 1: ten years, seven trillion dollars.

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Speaker 5: You don't worry that bringing all these new people into

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Speaker 5: the workforce, well, it might be good for the GDP

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Speaker 5: depresses wages for Native born Americans.

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Speaker 6: The Biden administration seems to only be tightening sanctions and

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Speaker 6: expanding the Trump administration's kind of tough policy.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that President Biden has gotten this right.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the President Trump, President Obama, President Bush,

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Speaker 1: or the presidents before them have.

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Speaker 4: No one has been willing to take this on.

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Speaker 5: According to Ice, the like seventy three thousand non citizens

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Speaker 5: with the criminal history arrested just last year, aren't there

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Speaker 5: pretty real concerns. That's just people who were arrested with

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Speaker 5: criminal histories last year.

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Speaker 6: Today's conversation is going to focus on immigration and the border,

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Speaker 6: and for that we are joined by former Congressman Beto O'Rourke.

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Speaker 3: Beto, thank you so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 4: Nice to be with you.

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Speaker 6: And I was just telling Emily before the program, you know,

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Speaker 6: we were talking about you and I did my first

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Speaker 6: interview with you when you were a city councilman back

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Speaker 6: in El Paso, when you were pushing a we legalization resolution,

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Speaker 6: and we actually have some footage of that we can

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Speaker 6: put at the very end of this clip for people

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Speaker 6: who can who will see both of us as much

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Speaker 6: younger people. But here we are today and so thanks

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Speaker 6: for joining us. We want to have a kind of

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Speaker 6: wide ranging conversation that if people watch the entire thing,

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Speaker 6: they can come away with kind of a broad understanding

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Speaker 6: of both the the history of immigration, our immigration policy,

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Speaker 6: our current border policy, and what different ideas there are

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Speaker 6: around it, and then they can figure out for themselves

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Speaker 6: where they stand on this. But you, as a city

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Speaker 6: councilman and then a member of Congress from El Paso,

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Speaker 6: this has been something that is just kind of inherent

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Speaker 6: to policy making.

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Speaker 3: I suppose that is that fair to say?

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Speaker 6: Like, what is it what is it like to be

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Speaker 6: a kind of a border city politician.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm speaking to you right now from Elpaso, which,

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Speaker 1: with our sister city of Siula quad Is Chihuahua, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: forms the largest binational community anywhere in the Western Hemisphere,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the largest, or at least one of the largest

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Speaker 1: anywhere in the world. It's about two and a half

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Speaker 1: million people, two countries, two cultures, two languages, who come

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Speaker 1: together in this one spot in the Chihuahuan desert, in

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Speaker 1: the Rio Grande River Valley and do something absolutely extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: We're far from the centers of power in our respective countries,

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Speaker 1: like here in El Paso, I'm closer to the state

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Speaker 1: capitals of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Chihuahua than i

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Speaker 1: am to Austin, Texas, my own state capital eight hours away.

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Speaker 1: So you thought Watts is similarly politically and geographically isolated.

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Speaker 4: So there's this really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Symbiotic, interdependent relationship that we have had for as long

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Speaker 1: as we have been communities. In fact, where I'm speaking

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Speaker 1: to you from my living room here in Sunset Heights.

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Speaker 1: Al Passo one hundred and ten years ago hosted a

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Speaker 1: meeting between Pancho Villa and the Chief of Staff the

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Speaker 1: United States Army General Hugh Scott, trying to address US

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Speaker 1: Mexico US Mexico border issues, not too different from the

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Speaker 1: role that Ol Paso could play today.

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Speaker 4: So we really are at the.

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Speaker 1: Epicenter of the US Mexico relationships, certainly the US Mexico border.

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Speaker 1: All the dynamics positive and negative, whether it's the hundreds

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Speaker 1: of billions of dollars of trade that flow through our

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Speaker 1: ports of entry, the millions of legal, documented inspected crossings

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Speaker 1: of people, of travelers, of workers, of students, of tourists,

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Speaker 1: and then yes, the dynamic of unauthorized immigration, and significant

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Speaker 1: challenges when it comes to our border, our immigration system,

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Speaker 1: and the political dynamics that drive elections up and down

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Speaker 1: the ballot, including the presidency in November. So al Paso

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Speaker 1: in s WHA does our sister city hold a very

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Speaker 1: special place. And that's why when I was on the

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Speaker 1: city council in two thousand and nine and you interviewed me,

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Speaker 1: we were working on drug policy because at the time set,

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Speaker 1: Wadas was the deadliest city in the world bar none,

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Speaker 1: in large part due to the United States drug interdiction,

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Speaker 1: drug enforcement, drug militarization policies that it created such a

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Speaker 1: premium for people to be able to cross things like marijuana,

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Speaker 1: which seems quoint today, but back then people were literally

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Speaker 1: willing to die or to kill for the ability to

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Speaker 1: cross it into our community.

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Speaker 4: So this is where it is all happening.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'm really eager to get to that point,

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Speaker 5: because when we talk about border and immigration, there's the

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Speaker 5: economic concerns, there's a humanitarian sort of security, drug, all

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Speaker 5: of those concerns. If we start with labor though in

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Speaker 5: the economy, H five N one is just ripping through

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Speaker 5: American dairy farms right now, and a lot of people

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Speaker 5: might not have thought about this in the context of immigration,

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Speaker 5: but there are so many migrant workers, a lot of

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Speaker 5: them on humanitarian parole. Surely over the course of the

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Speaker 5: last several years, we've seen big increases in that, and

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Speaker 5: I wanted to ask betto about this. This excerpt from

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Speaker 5: an article in Compact this week from Sorobramari, who wrote,

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Speaker 5: farmers and ranchers who hire legal workers will struggle to

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Speaker 5: compete against those who rely on soobs illegal serfs. The

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Speaker 5: more the latter get away with, the more surf or

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Speaker 5: slave life like labor becomes the norm across a whole sector.

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Speaker 5: America's worst academic isn't an epidemic, is an addiction to

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Speaker 5: cheap and vulnerable labor. It brings together unlikely bedfellows like

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Speaker 5: the farm and ranch lobby and open border progressives in

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Speaker 5: the White House and beyond. Carrying the addiction will require

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Speaker 5: a similar pro worker alliance across partisan and regional lines.

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Speaker 5: I thought this was a good question for you as

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Speaker 5: someone who's also supportive of progressive causes on labor. It

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Speaker 5: seems to me that there's tension there between you know,

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Speaker 5: people who are concerned for workers and people who are

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Speaker 5: concerned about the border. But how do you see that issue?

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Speaker 5: And are you concerned about all of those workers now

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Speaker 5: dealing with the outbreak of H five N one where

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Speaker 5: they're on the front lines. It's probably not going to

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Speaker 5: get into our food supply, but it may well get

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Speaker 5: into their systems.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think this is a great point, and it is

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Speaker 1: something that I'm concerned about. I read that expose the

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Speaker 1: New York times led on immigrant child labor. Kids who

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Speaker 1: are working as roofers, who are in slaughterhouses and meatpacking plants,

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Speaker 1: who are doing some of the toughest, most dangerous, deadliest

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Speaker 1: jobs in America. And they're twelve, and they're thirteen, and

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Speaker 1: they're fourteen years old, and many of them are leaving

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Speaker 1: these jobs maimed, mangled, or dead. In addition to that,

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Speaker 1: you talk about this permanent second or third or fourth

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Speaker 1: class of Americans that we have essentially created over the

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Speaker 1: last many decades, growing comfortable with the fact that there

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Speaker 1: are people who are struggling to come here, in many

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Speaker 1: cases literally willing to die to get across the US

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Speaker 1: Mexico border to work a job that, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: no one born in this country is willing to work.

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Speaker 1: Many of these same jobs that I just listed earlier,

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Speaker 1: working for substandard wages in some standard conditions, and again

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Speaker 1: very often sacrificing their health or even their lives in process.

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Speaker 1: We the consumer, ultimately, in some messed up way, is

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Speaker 1: the beneficiary of this. It's lower costs, it's more abundance,

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Speaker 1: it's less work for our kids or for us personally.

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Speaker 1: But this is not sustainable, at least from the moral

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Speaker 1: imperative as I see it, and it may not be

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Speaker 1: sustainable for us economically going forward. The other side of

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Speaker 1: this is that we're missing out on a massive, unrealized

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Speaker 1: windfall if we could only find legal, safe, orderly channels

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Speaker 1: for people to come here and work the jobs that

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Speaker 1: were unable to fill. The last count that I saw

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Speaker 1: is there are more than nine million of them in

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Speaker 1: the United States economy. These nine million unfilled jobs exacerbate inflation,

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Speaker 1: supply chain issues, the life and death of smaller communities

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Speaker 1: that are dependent upon this labor. And here we have

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Speaker 1: literally millions of people who are willing to work these jobs.

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Speaker 1: So it is absolutely incumbent upon Congress, upon this President,

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Speaker 1: upon both parties to change our immigration laws and certainly

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Speaker 1: our work permission process to ensure that there's a legal

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Speaker 1: way to do this. People come in from out of

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Speaker 1: the shadows. There's no longer the unfair competition that no

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Speaker 1: one except the corporations, the bosses, and ultimately perhaps the

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Speaker 1: American consumer is good with. Certainly not the American worker,

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Speaker 1: Certainly not the immigrant worker. We can fix this, but

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a matter of political will and

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Speaker 1: leadership from those who are in positions of power right now.

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Speaker 6: We want to get to some of those fixes towards

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Speaker 6: the back end of this conversation, So people that are

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Speaker 6: curious about that, go ahead, fast forward there. I wanted

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Speaker 6: to go backwards a little bit here and ask you

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Speaker 6: about Kamala Harris's assignment that she was given by the

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Speaker 6: by President Joe Biden go deal with root causes. She

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Speaker 6: famously want of her efforts to keep immigration down was

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Speaker 6: just to say don't come. But she was also supposed

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Speaker 6: to address what they call these root causes. Now, often

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Speaker 6: on this show we'll talk about the kind of the

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Speaker 6: history of US interventions abroad. Some people think that that's

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Speaker 6: just distracting from the current crisis that we're facing now

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Speaker 6: and making excuses so you don't have to deal with

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Speaker 6: the responsibility now. So I'm curious what you think the

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Speaker 6: root causes of some of this immigration surge are. Is

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Speaker 6: the history still relevant today or is that kind of

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Speaker 6: some type of a cope And has Kamala Harris actually

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Speaker 6: addressed any of these or from my perspective, seems like

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Speaker 6: this administration is just maybe destabilized things further.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's absolutely a consistent through line, at least in

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Speaker 1: the modern era of American policy in Latin America.

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Speaker 4: You could go back to.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen fifty four, for example, when the United States helped

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Speaker 1: lead a coup against a fairly freely democratically elected president

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Speaker 1: in Guatemala, a coolbar Benz Guzman. From nineteen fifty four

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Speaker 1: forward after he was deposed in this US led coup,

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Speaker 1: that country, for lack of a better phrase, has really

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Speaker 1: been a political, a security, a civic basket case that

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Speaker 1: has helped to exacerbate problems in Central America at the

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Speaker 1: US Mexico border and with our immigration system. You can

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Speaker 1: fast forward to the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: to the civil wars in Nicaragua and El Salvador, to

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Speaker 1: our relationship with Honduras, which many people referred to as

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Speaker 1: essentially an undisclosed American aircraft carrier or base for American

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Speaker 1: paramilitary sponsored operations in those two other countries, again further

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Speaker 1: destabilizing that region, sending people fleeing by the hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands to the United States in the nineteen eighties, people

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Speaker 1: who were often apprehended, imprisoned while in prison, picking up

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Speaker 1: gang culture in US penal system, and in exporting that

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Speaker 1: back to El Salvador, back to Honduras, back to Guatemala,

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Speaker 1: back to Nicaragua, only to see that come back to

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Speaker 1: us again in the two thousands leading up all the

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Speaker 1: way today. The fix for this is one that I

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Speaker 1: think is going to exceed the portfolio or the mandate

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Speaker 1: or the authority given to.

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Speaker 4: The Vice President.

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Speaker 1: It's really going to have to involve a reorientation in

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Speaker 1: the United States foreign policy. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: answer to this is, but I wonder if we looked

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Speaker 1: at where the Secretary of State and where senior State

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Speaker 1: Department officials spend the majority of their time physically, where

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Speaker 1: they travel to in the world, where we are spending

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Speaker 1: resources right now, where our attention, our focus is, and

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Speaker 1: I would guess that Latin America, the Western hemisphere is

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Speaker 1: pretty low on the list. Now, granted, you have Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: you have Gaza, you have China, you have so many

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Speaker 1: important places on the world, but none of them are

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Speaker 1: literally physically and culturally and familiarly connected to us the

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Speaker 1: way that the Americas are. And the longer that we

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Speaker 1: choose because it is a choice to ignore the Americas

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Speaker 1: or to only respond in crisis reactively, the longer we

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Speaker 1: are going to have this conversation on shows like these

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Speaker 1: about what's happening at the border, what's happening with our

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Speaker 1: immigration system this moment, this issue begs for the kind

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Speaker 1: of leadership that only the United States can provide, and

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Speaker 1: that's presidential leadership that's convening the leaders of the Western

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Speaker 1: hemisphere and looking at a migration crisis that is decades

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Speaker 1: in the making and will require cooperation with all of

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Speaker 1: the people and all the governments in this region, including

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Speaker 1: governments that we don't like that much.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you just one example.

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Speaker 1: Venezuela has seen a diaspora of more than seven million

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Speaker 1: people who have fled throughout the region. About five hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand of them of those seven million, put this in context,

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Speaker 1: have come to the United States. Countries much smaller than ours,

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Speaker 1: like Columbia population of about fifty five million, have taken

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Speaker 1: in millions of Ennsolonos. Other countries have taken in hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands and millions as well. So let's try to

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Speaker 1: find a logical, rational, fair, cooperative way to handle this challenge,

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Speaker 1: or we will continue to meet this at the border

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Speaker 1: to the detriment of our country, of our politics and

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Speaker 1: to the future that we could see if we were

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Speaker 1: able to get a handle on this and make the

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Speaker 1: most of those who want to come here and do

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Speaker 1: better for themselves and do better for all of us.

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Speaker 5: See it's interesting because I actually agree with a lot

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Speaker 5: of what you've said on the root causes, and you know,

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Speaker 5: going back to you know, we were talking about you

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Speaker 5: cover our guns ourselves earlier, and I agree with a

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Speaker 5: lot of that. But it's funny because when I look

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Speaker 5: at what's happening today, and when I look at Big

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Speaker 5: ag benefiting from this migrant work and the manufacturing sector

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Speaker 5: benefiting from this migrant work, I also see the Biden

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Speaker 5: border policies. This is from the Washington Post, the increases

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Speaker 5: in humanitarian parole over the course of the Biden administration.

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Speaker 5: I look at that almost as a way to or

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Speaker 5: something that has destabilized a lot of these countries because

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Speaker 5: they've created these pathways. I've talked to people, you know,

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Speaker 5: when I was in matam Moros a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 5: who described it as kind of a super highway through

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Speaker 5: Central America, Latin America up to the American border in

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Speaker 5: ways that are incredibly destabilizing every migrant pays cartels, so

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Speaker 5: that's for each person, it's more money in the pocket

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Speaker 5: of the cartels. So how do we design a border

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Speaker 5: policy that's at once humanitarian but on the other hand

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Speaker 5: is also understands that, you know, the easier it is

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Speaker 5: to get humanitarian parole or a pathway to citizenship in

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Speaker 5: the United States, the more people you're going to have

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Speaker 5: flocking up through these countries that are already incredibly destabilized

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Speaker 5: and need security in some ways. You know, you don't

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Speaker 5: want to I want to end up subsidizing Buchala. You

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Speaker 5: don't want to end up, you know, with the situation

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Speaker 5: in Ecuador that Ran and I've talked about before. So

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Speaker 5: it's so complicated. I'm curious how you think about that, Beto.

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Speaker 1: You know, I see this perhaps a little bit differently,

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Speaker 1: and that is I think the Biden administration was really

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Speaker 1: responding to people who were already coming to this country,

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Speaker 1: and many were coming and crossing in between ports of entry.

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Speaker 4: They weren't able to get one of.

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Speaker 1: Those coveted slots for an asylum interview. They weren't able

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Speaker 1: to exceed the quota system that we have for visas

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Speaker 1: for people who are coming from countries that are over subscribed.

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Speaker 1: In other words, there was really no legal channel for

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Speaker 1: people to come here, and those people, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: felt like they could not return to the country from

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Speaker 1: which they had originally fled, and so taking their lives

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Speaker 1: in their hands literally, they attempted to cross in between

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Speaker 1: these ports of entry, you know, fording the Rio Grande

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Speaker 1: River and trying to get through the razor wire that

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Speaker 1: Governor Abbott has put up, or braving you know, the

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Speaker 1: desert conditions in the summer in Arizona. What the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration did with humanitarian prole was say, look, you are coming,

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Speaker 1: and though we've told you not to come, you know,

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Speaker 1: as Kamala Harris, Vice President, famously said when she went

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Speaker 1: to Central America, you're still coming, and.

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Speaker 4: You're putting your life at risk.

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Speaker 1: You're creating, you know, potentially chaos at our border, and

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Speaker 1: it's a real security and political challenge for the United States.

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Speaker 1: We've got to do something about it. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to give you a legal pathway to come here. This

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Speaker 1: is through humanitarian prole and that was extended to folks

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Speaker 1: who are coming from Haiti, who are coming from Nicaragua,

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Speaker 1: who are coming from Cuba, and who are coming from

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Speaker 1: Venezuela and Emily. When the Biden administration did that, illegal

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Speaker 1: crossings undocumented crossing attempts dropped by more than ninety two

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Speaker 1: percent for these populations. It may not be the perfect solution,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think it is, but absent any action

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Speaker 1: from Congress, this was about as much as a president

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Speaker 1: could do to find that safe, legal, orderly path for

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Speaker 1: those who are coming here. The other thing I would

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Speaker 1: say is that you're absolutely right to focus on root causes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to continue to manage this at

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Speaker 1: the border through humanitarian parole or bigger walls or Concertina wire,

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Speaker 1: or deportations or detentions, or we're going to work cooperatively

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Speaker 1: with leaders and populations in the region to address the

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Speaker 1: root causes in their economies, in the lack of the

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Speaker 1: institutions that we take for granted in the United States

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Speaker 1: that make civil society possible, security and safety, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: We either work on that which is not easy, which

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Speaker 1: is not sexy, which is a long term investment and

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Speaker 1: prospect and diplomatically incredibly difficult, or we will continue to

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Speaker 1: have this problem at our border and in our country.

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Speaker 5: I have a quick follow up on that. I want

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Speaker 5: to roll this video. We have this as ex.

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Speaker 7: Two.

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Speaker 5: This is a Red Cross worker in Mata Moroso years

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Speaker 5: ago now, but he was talking about some of the

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Speaker 5: causes of migration.

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Speaker 7: My colleagues and I interviewed him. Let's roll this.

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Speaker 6: Political divid in patrol meno drastic drum.

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Speaker 5: People are being told in their home countries that there's.

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Speaker 4: With President Biden. He has policies that are not as drastic.

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Speaker 7: As as President Trump, and it's just causing a constant flow.

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Speaker 4: Of people to arrive at the border.

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Speaker 3: It was quiet, but once once Biden won, another wave

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Speaker 3: of people arrived who thought that the border was going

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Speaker 3: to open.

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Speaker 5: So I found that interesting because to me and when

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Speaker 5: I've talked to people, you've spent way more time in

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Speaker 5: the border than I have. When I've talked to people,

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Speaker 5: there was a consistent drum beat that people thought Biden

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Speaker 5: was going to be more lenient. And as we saw,

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Speaker 5: we can put ex. One, this is just crossings under

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Speaker 5: Biden up on the screen. As we saw Biden take office,

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Speaker 5: we did see an increase in illegal crossings. But now

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Speaker 5: what we've seen is increase is also in humanitarian parole

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Speaker 5: because people are being shifted away from I I think

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Speaker 5: when Republicans talk about illegal immigrants right now, it's completely

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Speaker 5: misnomer because a lot of this is actually authorized now,

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Speaker 5: a lot of this is coming through humanitarian parole. So

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Speaker 5: how is it possible to have a policy where you're

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Speaker 5: getting people into the American economy to get it to

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Speaker 5: where people are being treated humanly and fairly, but also

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Speaker 5: not for that to be a pull factor that endangers

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Speaker 5: people as they're being pulled up by cartels.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I think you make a good point,

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Speaker 1: and I think common sense tells us that following Trump

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Speaker 1: with his vicious nativist, anti immigrant rhetoric, having someone like

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Speaker 1: President Biden, who is known for his empathy, who wants

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Speaker 1: to get America back to its foundational values, including the

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Speaker 1: acknowledgment that we are a nation of immigrants and refugees

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Speaker 1: and asylum seekers from around the world, that that's going

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Speaker 1: to have an impact on the prospective immigrant or asylum

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Speaker 1: seekers decision on coming to this country. So a great,

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Speaker 1: great point there, But in that graph that you just showed,

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Speaker 1: there was also a pretty significant bump in twenty and nineteen.

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Speaker 1: That's when Donald Trump, of course was president of the

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Speaker 1: United States. And I just point that out because the

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Speaker 1: dramatic increase that we saw in twenty nineteen, which was

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Speaker 1: some of the highest numbers we had seen in many,

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Speaker 1: many years, followed twenty eighteen, where you had a family

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Speaker 1: separation policy where you had kids in cages, where you

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Speaker 1: had some of the most fearful, hateful, racist rhetoric that

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Speaker 1: we'd ever seen from an American president, and yet you

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Speaker 1: saw the attempts increased dramatically in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 4: From twenty twenty going forward, it's a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit challenging to parse these numbers because you had Title

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Speaker 1: forty two, which allowed border patrol agents to summarily deport

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Speaker 1: without processing, people who are trying to enter this country,

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Speaker 1: many trying to claim asylum. Those people were then free

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Speaker 1: to try to cross again and again and again, and

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Speaker 1: so you may have many crossing attempts that are representative

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Speaker 1: of just a single person trying to cross multiple times.

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Speaker 1: I guess this boils down to the fact that it

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Speaker 1: has been decades, really since Ronald Reagan was a president

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Speaker 1: of the United States, that we've had a comprehensive rewrite

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Speaker 1: of our immigration, our asylum, our refugee and our border

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Speaker 1: policies to match the conditions as they are today, to

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Speaker 1: match the reality of our country right now, and certainly

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Speaker 1: to match our values who we aspire to be, who

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Speaker 1: we tell ourselves and the rest of the world that

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Speaker 1: we are at the end of the day. And no,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that President Biden has gotten this right.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that President Trump, President Obama, President Bush,

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Speaker 1: or the presidents before them have.

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Speaker 4: No one has been willing to.

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Speaker 1: Take this on and to put in the work and

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Speaker 1: to expend the political capital necessary to get this done.

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Speaker 1: I really think, Emily, it's going to take the next

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Speaker 1: president to use everything they have in the first one

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Speaker 1: hundred days of their administration to make this happen.

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Speaker 4: The way that LBJ did with civil rights.

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Speaker 1: In sixty four, the way that Obama did with the

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Speaker 1: ACA in two thousand and nine, it's going to have

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Speaker 1: to be. My hope is that it's President Biden his

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Speaker 1: second term, doing everything he can with what he has

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Speaker 1: to finally end this problem, this current crisis, and make

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Speaker 1: sure that we have laws that correspond with our values,

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Speaker 1: our reality, and the best interests of America.

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Speaker 6: Obama's effort to do that during his term seemed to

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Speaker 6: be to pretty much appease Republicans on enforcement in order

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Speaker 6: to kind of win some capital, to get some comprehensive deal,

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Speaker 6: none of which seemed to work. In the militarization that

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Speaker 6: he advanced didn't seem to slow much. But I'm curious

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Speaker 6: from your prosuctive you were serving in Congress then while

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Speaker 6: Obama was engaged in that policy.

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Speaker 3: What was Obama's policy like from your perspective, which parts

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Speaker 3: of it worked, what.

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Speaker 1: Didn't you know? I think that you're right. I think

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Speaker 1: he was really trying to demonstrate this. This is me guessing.

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Speaker 1: He didn't tell me this. I don't know this for

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Speaker 1: a fact, but I think he and his administration we're

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Speaker 1: trying to demonstrate just how tough they could be on

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Speaker 1: the border and how strong they.

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Speaker 4: Could be on security issues.

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Speaker 1: You know, many people derided him as quote unquote the

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Speaker 1: deporter in chief. At that point, he had deported under

438
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: his administration more people from this country than any administration previously.

439
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: There were these, you know, so called deportation camps that

440
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: existed in places like Artesia, New Mexico. I visited one

441
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: of them as a member of Congress. It's three hours

442
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: from Malpasso, which is the closest big city to Artesia,

443
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: meaning that asylum seekers, refugees, migrants who were stranded at

444
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: these camps had little recourse to representation, to family, to help,

445
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: to really anybody, including the media, even knowing that they

446
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: were alive. And the the sense was among those migrants

447
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: and some of the ICE staff that I talked to

448
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: in Artesia that this was an effort to get people

449
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: to quote unquote self deport to make conditions so miserable

450
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: for them, but they'd go back to the country from

451
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: which they fled and tell others in their hometowns not

452
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: to make the attempt.

453
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 4: That just doesn't work.

454
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 1: We can be as cruel as we can imagine, and

455
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: in Texas we've defied most people's imaginations. I mean, it's

456
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: not just the razor wire on the shores of the

457
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: Rio Grande, submerged under the water level. It's not the

458
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: floating buoy barriers with nets underneath designed to ensnare, entangle

459
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: and drown migrants who are crossing. It's not just the

460
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: fact that five years ago, in the entire i'll passive

461
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: Border patrol sector all of West Texas, all of southern

462
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: New Mexico, only six migrants died trying to cross in

463
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: the US, and last year, one hundred and forty nine

464
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: migrants died trying to cross into this country. It's the

465
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: fact that we've quintupled border patrols spent over the last

466
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: five years. We've more than tripled the size of ice,

467
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: we are spending ungodly amounts of money, we are building walls,

468
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: we are militarizing the border. You would think that doing

469
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: all of that, with all of the death, all the misery,

470
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: all the suffering that we are seeing, that numbers.

471
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: Would plumb it. That's just not the case.

472
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: And I think that should break through to both our

473
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: brains and to our hearts, to show us that people

474
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: aren't doing this for kicks. They're not coming here to

475
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: steal our jobs or our kids place in school, or

476
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: to freeload on free benefits and a social welfare system

477
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: in the United States. They are leaving because they absolutely

478
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 1: have no other choice but to do so.

479
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 4: They're making the same decision.

480
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 1: That you or I would make if faced with the

481
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: same conditions. And I really do think we have a

482
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: responsibility to figure out how to humanly address this issue.

483
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: And yes, from the presence perspective, now without the help

484
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: of cong Risk. That includes things like opening up more

485
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: asylum appointments, more humanitarian parole, more work authorizations. But I

486
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: take the points that both of you are making that

487
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: we have to absolutely address the root causes of this

488
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: work hemispherically with our partners and some folks that we

489
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: don't like so much in the region. To address root

490
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: causes or we're never going to get a handle on this,

491
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: and that will be to the detriment of our country

492
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: and politically, it's going to continue to be in albatross

493
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: around the neck of any Democrat running for office, including

494
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: the President, because the other side, cynically Donald Trump, who

495
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: says the quiet part out loud all the time, they

496
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: don't want a solution. You know, he infamously broke the

497
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: border deal negotiated by Senate Republicans and the President because

498
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: he wants to run on the problem. They can fit

499
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: their solution on a bumper sticker, build the wall.

500
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 4: Democrats actually have.

501
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: To govern, and until we get this right, it is

502
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: going to be very challenging for us politically, and that

503
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: leads to all other problems or a number of other

504
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: problems that we're going to continue to have in this country.

505
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: So I don't think that there's a more important issue

506
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: for the president to lead on and if he has

507
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: majorities in his second term to actually get the job done.

508
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 5: Actually, that's interesting because you don't see it. We keep

509
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 5: going back on this. I feel like this is where

510
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 5: the impasses. But you don't see it in that. You know,

511
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 5: if you look at increased deaths or the humanitarian suffering

512
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 5: people going through the Darien Gap and the Darien Gap

513
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 5: they say they've seen massive increases, you don't think that's

514
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 5: connected to the increase in humanitarian parole in the United States.

515
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: And I asked that question again just because like you're

516
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 5: talking to these people, is the world I mean, is

517
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 5: so heartbreaking exactly because of what you said. It's what

518
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 5: everyone would do in these situations when gangs are targeting

519
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 5: your family and you know, you have so much more

520
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 5: opportunity in the United States. You know, some of the

521
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 5: Haitian migrants, you talk to them and they'll say, you know,

522
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 5: they're doing okay in Brazil or somewhere like that, but

523
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 5: what they want is the opportunity of the United States.

524
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 5: But you don't see that as being connected to the

525
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 5: Biden policy. To think Greg Abbott, Well, he would say,

526
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: you know, I can put up as much razor wire,

527
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 5: but unless the Biden administration decreases the humanitarian parole that

528
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 5: it's given, or you know, does detention or remain in Mexico,

529
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 5: people are going to keep coming because they're desperate. So

530
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 5: those two things, you don't think they're completely correlated.

531
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're completely correlated, but I absolutely

532
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: can see that that is a factor.

533
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: Again, and I mentioned this earlier.

534
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: If you know, we're moving from an administration where the

535
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: president is describing asylum seekers as animals, calling them an

536
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: infestation and invasion, as are all words that President Trump

537
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: used inspiring a mass killer to come to all Pass

538
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen and murder twenty three people in the

539
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: walmart here, claiming that he's repelling this invasion that he'd

540
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: heard about from Donald Trump, of Hispanics who are coming

541
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: to politically take over this country if that person is

542
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: replaced by somebody who is not as hateful, not as violent,

543
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: not as vicious, and says, yes, I want to get

544
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: America back to its fundamental values. I want to treat

545
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: people with the basic dignity and respect that they deserve

546
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: could that be a factor.

547
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: Absolutely, very happy to concede that.

548
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: Very proud of the President, by the way, for representing

549
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: that value in American history. But the reason I pointed

550
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 1: out the significant spike in twenty nineteen under Donald Trump

551
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: is that he was as cruel a president towards immigrants

552
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: as we've ever had, and you still saw a dramatic

553
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: increase in people trying to cross. The one hundred and

554
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: forty nine deaths that I described earlier. Those are moms

555
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: and little babies drowning in the Rio Grand River. These

556
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: are people whose desiccated bodies were finding in the Chiuahuan desert,

557
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: who died of dehydration and sun exposure. This is the

558
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: most miserable way possibly to lose your life. One hundred

559
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: and forty nine people who died just in this region

560
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: from which I'm talking to you right now, I'm confident

561
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: are an undercount, and I'm also confident that their deaths

562
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: do not go unnoticed back in their home country. So

563
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: we've got to ask ourselves, given all of that, why

564
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: would someone still try to make this journey here? And

565
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't think it is just because there is a

566
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: more generous humanitarian bargain to be had under President bid

567
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: and I think they've they've really lost hope in being

568
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: able to stay in their home country or being able

569
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: to go to any other country, because, as I pointed

570
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: out earlier, in a country like Colombia, they're absolutely beyond

571
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: capacity to take any more. We've taken hundreds of thousands

572
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: of Venezuelans and we're a three hundred and thirty five

573
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: million person country. They've taken millions of Venezuelans and they're

574
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: a fifty five million person country. You know, maybe a

575
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: strategy is to help address capacity issues in these other countries. Hey, Columbia,

576
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: what do you need to better process and retain and

577
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: help put to work Venezuelans who can't return to their

578
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: home country right now? And then, hey, region, how can

579
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: we work together to address what is happening in Venezuela

580
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: so people can come back home. I mean, just like

581
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: those of us here in America, people are proud of

582
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: their home countries. They love the hometown they come from,

583
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: they miss their families. They're not leaving for kicks. This

584
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: is an incredibly arduous, very often deadly journey, and many

585
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: people want to come back home. Let's help them find

586
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: a way to do that.

587
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 6: What about the sanctions on Venezuela. We also see a

588
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 6: lot of migration from Cuba recently, more people fleeing Cuba

589
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 6: now than during the Marial, the famous Mariyal boat lift

590
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 6: that gave this country scarface. The Biden administration seems to

591
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 6: only be tightening sanctions and expanding the Trump administration's kind

592
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 6: of tough policy towards them.

593
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: What role do you think that plays.

594
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 5: Well, and even back in coups like in Venezuela and

595
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 5: other places.

596
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: Our foreign policy has really just been a disaster across

598
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: the Americas, throughout the Western hemisphere. We are reaping what

599
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: we have sown over decades. It's a combination of catastrophic disinterest,

600
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 1: like literally ignoring what is happening right next door, and

601
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: then when we intervene, it is reactively. Whether it's Reagan

602
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: fighting the boogeyman of communism in Nicaragua, in El Salvador,

603
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: whether it's a successive administrations that militarize the police forces

604
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: throughout the Americas to fight our drug war on their turf.

605
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that we represent about half or at

606
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: least a quarter of the global demand for illegal drugs,

607
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: and those drugs are going to transit through these places,

608
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: and they're going to hollow out their institutions, their judiciary,

609
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: their free press, their civil society. They're free and fair

610
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: and democratic elections. I mean, we bear some culpability for this,

611
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: and we should acknowledge that, and we should do what

612
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: we can to make it right, while also acknowledging that

613
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: it's not completely our burden to bear, and there's responsibility

614
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: in these countries certainly as well and throughout the hemisphere.

615
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 4: But I also want to make this point.

616
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: We have so much to gain really if we can

617
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: figure this out. I think the Congressional Budget Office estimates

618
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: that over the last fifteen years, just asylum seekers and

619
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: refugees have contributed about one hundred and twenty four billion

620
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: dollars to the net positive after you subtract all of

621
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: our costs to care for them or to process them,

622
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: or to in any way handle them, one hundred and

623
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: twenty four billion dollars to the positive of the United

624
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: States economy. Looking prospectively over the next decade, the numbers

625
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: are even more dramatic. Immigrants, undocumented, legal, processed, citizen, permanent resident,

626
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: and otherwise will add seven trillion with eight dollars to

627
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: the gross domestic product of the United States over the

628
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: next ten years, seven trillion dollars. One trillion dollars will

629
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: net to federal, state, and local governments in taxa seats.

630
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: These are net numbers. Now, imagine if we could get

631
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: this right and provide safe, legal, orderly pathways for people

632
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: to come here to work jobs that were otherwise unable

633
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: to fill, to contribute to the success of our communities,

634
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: especially small towns that I see across Texas that without

635
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: the influx of immigrants, would otherwise dry up and die,

636
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: and also our ability to realize our promise and our

637
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: potential as a country that stands on the world stage

638
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: that is comprised of people from the planet over.

639
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,479
Speaker 4: It really is the.

640
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: Best thing going, and we lose this at our own peril.

641
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: As you all know, we're not having enough kids in

642
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: our families right now to replace the population in the

643
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: United States, to pay into Social Security, to keep it solvent,

644
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: to work all these jobs that I've been talking about

645
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: right now.

646
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 4: To Emily's point.

647
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: We want to make sure that those who come here

648
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: to work those jobs are doing these jobs above board

649
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: and are competing on an equal, fair playing field and

650
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: are out in the sunlight. And when we do all

651
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: of that, when we have regular, controlled, legal, safe, orderly

652
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: immigration or reports of entry, the real challenges that we

653
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: have and I and I completely admit that we have

654
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: some at our border, you know, illegal drug trafficking, illegal

655
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: human trafficking, modern day slavery that is taking place in

656
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,959
Speaker 1: the Americas, it becomes much easier to focus on those

657
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: challenges right now. Those are needles in the haystack of

658
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people who are coming here every month.

659
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: We regularize the ability for those people to come here,

660
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: address the root causes, so fewer people are coming in

661
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: the first place, and we're going to be more effective

662
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: at stopping the real threats that we face at the

663
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: US Mexico border.

664
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 5: And on the point about labor, from a macro perspective,

665
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 5: it's hard for me to see how bringing in you know,

666
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 5: two millions, So if we're taking the humanitarian parole numbers,

667
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 5: most of those are most of those people get authorized

668
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 5: work permits, a couple million people into the labor force.

669
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 5: How that doesn't depress wages? There is competing research on that,

670
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 5: but you don't worry that bringing all these new people

671
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 5: into the workforce. Well, it might be good for the

672
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 5: GDP depresses wages for native born Americans.

673
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: No, I am concerned about that, and I think you

674
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: raise a really important point in effect that is happening

675
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: right now because we don't have legal pathways for people

676
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: to come here and work above board, and they're being

677
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: paid depressed wages underneath the minimum wage, which is already

678
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: so low. In Texas it's seven dollars and twenty five

679
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: cents an hour.

680
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 4: Try feeding your family on one of those jobs.

681
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: Now imagine if you're paid five bucks an hour or

682
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: two bucks an hour, as some of these undocumented migrants are,

683
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: and now imagine that you're an American born worker who's

684
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: in the labor.

685
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 4: Pool competing against that.

686
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: It's really really tough to get by and incredibly unfair

687
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: to Americans first and foremost. So you've just provided one

688
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: of the most important reasons that we've got to find

689
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: these safe legal pathways for people to come here and

690
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: work within the law, to make sure that they're vetted,

691
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: and also to make sure that they have a pathway

692
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: that will allow them to escape, you know, a third

693
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: place or second place level of citizenship ultimately, if they

694
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: want to to become United States citizen and to enjoy

695
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: the fruits.

696
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 4: Of their labor.

697
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: You know, they're literally helping to build this country up,

698
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that they and their

699
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: descendants are going to have a place and a future

700
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: in this country. That's good for all of us. And

701
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: as you know, that's the story of this country. That's

702
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: the story of my ancestors fleeing famine in Ireland to

703
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: come to this country, probably to work jobs that no

704
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: one else would take, and then successive generations continue to

705
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: contribute to the success of their cities, their communities, and

706
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: their country.

707
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 4: We want that to continue in America.

708
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: That's the best part of our story as far as

709
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: I'm concerned.

710
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 4: But yes, you're right, it has to happen legally.

711
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: But to your point about demand, we have nine million

712
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: unfilled jobs right now. It's absolutely one of not the only,

713
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: but one of the drivers on inflation, one of the

714
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: drivers of supply chain issues, and it's really holding back

715
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: an economy that could go gangbusters if we could find

716
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: a way to make the most of this unrealized labor

717
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: pool that wants to come here to work these jobs.

718
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 6: How do you respond to people who say, look, it's

719
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 6: all well and good that we're a nation of immigrants,

720
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 6: but we're just too crowded now. Rent is too high,

721
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 6: housing prices are too high. We just can't take any

722
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 6: more people. I'm sure you hear that. What's your response

723
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 6: to that?

724
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: When you hear it?

725
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: It's funny.

726
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: When I was running for governor here in Texas, I

727
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 1: could point to the abysmal state of public education in Texas,

728
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: or the fact that teachers are paid less than ten

729
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: thousand against their counterparts nationally, talk about the power grid

730
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: failure in twenty twenty one that killed seven hundred people,

731
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: or the fact that two years after Uvaldy.

732
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 4: We lead the nation in school shootings.

733
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: The fact that we haven't expanded medicat or minimum wage

734
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: is solo. I could make any of those charges and

735
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: the governor would simply point to the border or raise

736
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the boogeyman of immigrants who are coming to take our jobs,

737
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: or to rape our kids, or to kill our families.

738
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: Until we address this issue, it will continue to be

739
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: a distraction. And unlike the economy or inflation, these are

740
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: things that we experience in day to day life. I

741
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: know how much more milk costs than it did four

742
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: years ago. I know what it costs to fill up

743
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: my truck when I go to the gas station.

744
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 4: You can't snow me on that. But immigration, unless you're

745
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 4: an immigrant, unless.

746
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: You work with immigrants, perhaps if you live in El

747
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: Paso or Eagle Pass or Del Rio or Nogals, this is.

748
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: Not something you experience on a day to day basis.

749
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,439
Speaker 1: This is something you are told how to feel about

750
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: by people like Donald Trump or Greg Abbott, and they

751
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: tell you to be afraid, and they incite so much

752
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: of that hatred, so much of that violence, like we

753
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: saw in El Paso, so much of that dysfunction that

754
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: we see in Congress where you have a border security

755
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: deal that Republicans could only dream of. Frankly, I was

756
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: surprised that the President conceded to all of those to

757
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: all of those demands.

758
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: You know, until we solve this, that's going to be

759
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 4: the problem.

760
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: You all have seen that cartoon where you know, there

761
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: there's three people at a table, and there's the American

762
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: worker with his one cookie, and then there's the fat

763
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: cat CEO of the corporation with the pile of cookies.

764
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: And the CEO points to the immigrant. He says, that

765
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: guy's trying to take your cookie. I think we have

766
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: to focus on the challenges where they really are, hold

767
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: people in positions of public trust accountable for the jobs

768
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: they're doing or not doing.

769
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 4: But Ryan to your point, you know, whether it's fair

770
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 4: or not.

771
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: Until we solve these challenges that we've been discussing the

772
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: course of this program, it will continue to be a

773
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: political problem and it will hold us back from addressing

774
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 1: the very real challenges that we have throughout this country.

775
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 5: One question on the security point, because according to ICE,

776
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 5: there were like seventy three thousand non citizens with a

777
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 5: criminal history arrested just last year. I feel like that

778
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 5: does go beyond Nagallis and go beyond Egle Pass and

779
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 5: up into different parts of the country. Obviously, there was

780
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 5: the tragedy of Lake and Riley earlier this year, so

781
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 5: there are and basically other parts of the border are

782
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 5: saying there's this influx of Chinese migrants, and you know,

783
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 5: there's people who are engaged in demonization, There's no question

784
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 5: about it. There are people who are engaged in creating

785
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 5: the Boogeyman's no question about it. But aren't there pretty

786
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 5: real concerns you know, even if there's plenty of research

787
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 5: that suggests immigrant populations have lower crime rates than native

788
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 5: born populations, you're still bringing in some seventy three thousand people.

789
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 5: That's just people who were arrested with criminal histories last year.

790
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're making the case for rewriting our

791
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: immigration laws to ensure that there's that legal, safe, orderly

792
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: pathway for people that we want to have in this country,

793
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 1: and it will make us far more effective at being

794
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: vigilant against those that we don't want in this country,

795
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: people who have violent criminal histories, for example, or gang affiliations,

796
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: or who are trafficking in fentanyl or in human beings.

797
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 4: For that matter.

798
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: Right now, that we have more than twenty thousand border

799
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: patrol agents, that we're spending billions more than we ever have,

800
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: And I think President Biden's budget for DHS, I think

801
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: has got us almost twice the level we have for

802
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: border patrol spending alone as what we had in the

803
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: Trump administration. President Biden has deported I think, far more

804
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: people than President Trump ever has. If we don't get

805
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: to some kind of order, control, legal pathway for people

806
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: to come here, we're going to continue to put these

807
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: border patrol agents in this absolutely untenable situation of not

808
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: being able to effectively interdict and stop the very real

809
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: threats that we face. Now, all of what you laid

810
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: out is a serious challenge in terms of those with

811
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: criminal histories, I for one, am not too concerned whether

812
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: someone is Chinese.

813
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: Or Honduran, or Nigerian or anything else. That really does

814
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 4: not matter to me.

815
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: But it matters if they have a criminal history, if

816
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: they pose a threat to this country. Let's make sure

817
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: that we're more effective. We're only going to be more

818
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: effective when we have control of our border. We're only

819
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: going to get that when we have comprehensive immigration reform.

820
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: And that's only going to happen when you have really

821
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: strong leadership at the very top, when you're able to

822
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: compel members of Congress to actually do their job, and

823
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: where you have enough popular push from the people of

824
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: this country to ensure that that there's that level of accountability.

825
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: Otherwise we're going to continue to have this co again

826
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: and again and again. And as a lifelong resident of Elpaso, Texas,

827
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: I can tell you, going back to the to the

828
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, I am super familiar with this conversation, and

829
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 1: it's one of the more disappointing aspects of our political

830
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: system in this country that we don't see the leadership

831
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: and the political will to fix this, to get this right.

832
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: For all of the moral reasons, all the economic, all

833
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: the humanitarian, and all the security and safety reasons that

834
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: you're bringing up right now, Emily.

835
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 6: The problem from my perspective with a democratic position is

836
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 6: that they seem to be kind of mimicking what the

837
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 6: kind of center left Europeans did over the last ten years.

838
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 6: You know, they had a migration crisis out of the

839
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 6: Syrian War significantly, and right wing nativists made a huge

840
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 6: stink out of it, and the center left parties said,

841
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 6: we're basically, you know, as far right wing on the

842
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 6: question of immigration as the right wing parties are, but

843
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 6: we're just we're just a little bit nicer and friendlier

844
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 6: about it.

845
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: But they embraced a lot of the same kind of

846
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: very tough policies.

847
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 6: All this, all the studies in all the common sense

848
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 6: shows that that did. That didn't work for the center

849
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 6: left parties. They were they basically don't exist anymore and

850
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 6: people have moved.

851
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: You know, if you have a choice.

852
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 6: Between yeah, then you know, mccron is the only one

853
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 6: that's that basically has been able to hold on. Otherwise,

854
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 6: at the right wing parties have pretty much been dominant,

855
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 6: and it hasn't worked to appease them. It seems seems

856
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 6: like Biden's attempt to do that probably goes the exact

857
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 6: same direction, doesn't work, just just enables the right. But

858
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 6: if I ask myself, okay, well what is the left

859
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 6: position on immigration? Like I know what it is on

860
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 6: climate change, I know what it is on healthcare, I

861
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 6: know what it is on the economy generally, but what

862
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 6: is it on immigration? So if if you were, let's say,

863
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 6: running for president again and you're going to do a

864
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 6: left wing democratic position of what of what Democrats are for.

865
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 3: When it comes to immigration, not just what they're against,

866
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: which is Trump being bad? What would that what would

867
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 3: that kind of position be?

868
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 6: And it's complicated, maybe it's too complicated to boil down,

869
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 6: but I'm curious, you know, what what is the the

870
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 6: left position in America on immigration?

871
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you raised this because you know, earlier

872
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: I was mentioning, you know, the cruelty of the Trump administration,

873
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: the rhetoric of Greg Abbott, you know, literally on the

874
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: eve of the Old Passo shooting said Texans, we've got

875
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: to defend ourselves. We have to take matters into our

876
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: own hands. And then the absolutely, absolutely cruel way in

877
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: which he has met this humanitarian challenge at our border.

878
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right on the part of Democrats, at

879
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 1: least nationally, it is a paler version of this, maybe

880
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: uh you know, kinder or gentler in some way. But

881
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: you have President Biden saying, give me the authority and

882
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: I will shut the border.

883
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 4: Down on on day one.

884
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: You have the revival of detention, many of these detention

885
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: camps run by the private prison industry here in Texas.

886
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: You have a throttling of asylum and really new barriers

887
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: and obstacles to people who are trying to apply for asylum.

888
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: If you didn't apply, you know, in countries through which

889
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: you transitd if you didn't use CBP one which has

890
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: a very limited number of appointment slots, then you know

891
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: there is no recourse for you whatsoever, which drives so

892
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 1: much of that desperation.

893
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 4: So Ryan, you're asking me, then, what's the positive side

894
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 4: of that? I would love.

895
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: To hear Democrats say immigration is one of the best

896
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: things about this country. It is literally what has made

897
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: us who We are, the dominant superpower in this world economically, culturally, militarily.

898
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 4: You find a way to measure it.

899
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: Immigrants have made it happen in this country, and we

900
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: will continue to be a dominant country in this world,

901
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: will continue to have a high standard of living, will

902
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: continue to be a country that we can be proud

903
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: of if we continue to find a way to legally

904
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: in an orderly fashion and safely allow those from around

905
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: the planet who want to come here to do better

906
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: for themselves, who doesn't want to, but who also want

907
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: to do better for all of us, which they have.

908
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: Al Passo one of the safest cities in America, not

909
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: despite but because we are a city of immigrants. I

910
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: mentioned the hundreds of billions of dollars to the positive

911
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: that refugees and asylum seekers have brought, the trillions of

912
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: dollars that they will bring over the next decade. If

913
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: we do not screw this up. This is a great opportunity.

914
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: It's something that we should be proud of. It is

915
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: something that we should be for. It is not something

916
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: that we should be afraid of, defensive about feeling compelled

917
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: out of fear or anxiety to agree with Republicans just

918
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: to try to win the election or to do better

919
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: in the polls.

920
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 4: Voters can sniff that out.

921
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: And if they can have the real thing, you know,

922
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: real cruelty in Donald Trump, or they can have you know,

923
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: some you know simulation of it from Democrats, they're going

924
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: to take the real thing.

925
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 4: I think we have an opportunity here. You know.

926
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: President Biden as a candidate in twenty twenty defeated Donald Trump,

927
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: and the lines on this issue were actually a lot.

928
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 4: Clearer than than they are now.

929
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: Trump was, you know, family separation, he was kids in cages,

930
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: he was cruelty at the border remain in Mexico. The

931
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: Migrant Protection Protocols the most orwellian named American policy ever.

932
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: President Biden said, let's get back to who we are

933
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: as a country of immigrants. Let's treat these people who

934
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: are coming here humanly.

935
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 4: Let's protect the border.

936
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: Let's make sure that we prioritize safety and security.

937
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 4: But there's a much better way to do that.

938
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: American voters, for whom immigration was one of the central

939
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: issues in twenty twenty, as it was in twenty sixteen,

940
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,479
Speaker 1: as it will be in twenty twenty four.

941
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 4: Chose President Biden on that basis.

942
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: I think he has an opportunity to return to that

943
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: right now, and it's not too late, and it's not

944
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: news to anyone that he's really.

945
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 4: Struggling with young voters right now.

946
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: If instead of conceding the position to Republicans on these issues,

947
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: he said, you know, in addition to making sure we

948
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: manage the border better, address legitimate security concerns, manage the

949
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: flow of people who are wanting to come here, I

950
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: am going to fight for those dreamers to make sure

951
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: that they have a pathway to citizenship. I'm going to

952
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: do something about the eleven million undocumented who, to Emily's point,

953
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: are working jobs here that no one else will at

954
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: substandard wages that are a real threat and danger to

955
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: the American worker.

956
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to get this right.

957
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: Speak in aspirational, ambitious, strong terms.

958
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 4: Man.

959
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: I think that would fire up a lot of young

960
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: people right now who are looking for a reason to

961
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: support President Biden in November.

962
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wish Democrats and Republicans had a more serious appetite,

963
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 5: and you know, they were more willing to dismiss corporate

964
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 5: interests on this question because now that as we've been

965
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 5: talking about it reminds me it's sort of like my

966
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 5: position on student loans, because I probably disagree with both

967
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 5: of you on this, like I don't support student loan

968
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 5: forgiveness unless there's also addressing the root cause is because

969
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 5: then from my perspective, it thrusts us deeper and deeper

970
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 5: into this cycle, into a vicious cycle. But the last

971
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 5: question is kind of about that vicious cycle. I wanted

972
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 5: to tee you and Ryan bothap Betze because you both wrote, written,

973
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 5: and done a lot of work in drugs in the

974
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 5: space of immigration and the border, and obviously fentanyl has

975
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 5: become a huge concern for people looking at the border now.

976
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 5: But just even going back decades of failed American drug policy,

977
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 5: over the course of the Biden administration, there's been again

978
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 5: an attempt to crack down a fentanyl obviously real problem.

979
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 7: We all agree on that.

980
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 5: But from the vantage point of people who have studied

981
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 5: this again for decades, what do you make of the

982
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 5: Biden era drug policy and as it pertains to migration.

983
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: Well, look, I'll start and then I'm interested to hear

984
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: what Ryan has to say on this. I think the

985
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: announcement by the Biden administration that they're going to move

986
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: forward on rescheduling marijuana is a great step in the

987
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: right direction. It had more of a bearing on the

988
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: US Mexico Board order when it was illegal in almost

989
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: every state in the Union than it does today. So

990
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: I don't know that that is addressing the border issue

991
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: as directly anymore when it comes to fentanyl and other

992
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: illegal drugs that are being transited across through our ports

993
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: of entry, actually far more than in between our ports

994
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: of entry. I think we get back to the core

995
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: idea that if you know ninety nine percent of what

996
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: comes into this country is inspected, is doing so legal,

997
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: that there is an orderly safe pathway for people who

998
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: want to come here apply for asylum or refugee status,

999
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: or for temporary work permits, or through our green card system,

1000
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: or citizenship, or join a family member, a lot of

1001
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: ways to do this. If we can get that right,

1002
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: then our ability to interdict and stop the flow of fentanyl,

1003
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: for example, is going to be that much greater. Until

1004
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: we do that, Given the hundreds of thousands of undocumented crossings,

1005
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: the lack of control we have over our immigration system

1006
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: right now, this will remain the needle in the haystack

1007
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: that unfortunately and tragically is very difficult for us to uncover.

1008
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: I think the Biden administration is doing really the best

1009
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: they can with the resources and the authority and the

1010
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: appropriations that they have. But what they really need is

1011
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: a comprehensive fix, and that will require Congressional action.

1012
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think fentanyl has some unique elements to it

1013
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 6: because I think there's some significant amounts of China policy

1014
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 6: related to that. I don't think there's just I just

1015
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 6: think there's no way that that amount of fentanyl is

1016
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 6: being produced in China and exported to Mexico and up

1017
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 6: through the United States without China. You know, China knows

1018
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 6: what it's doing. Okay, they're they're they're looking the other

1019
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 6: way or or even worse, actively encouraging I think the

1020
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 6: ventanyl exporting.

1021
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 7: Let's say that about Amlo too though.

1022
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: Well is an interesting figure too.

1023
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 6: But and I'm curious for your take on this because

1024
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 6: as I've we both have covered the drug war, but

1025
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 6: uh for so many years and basically every South American

1026
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 6: and Central American country, like you said, the institutions are

1027
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 6: being just completely hollowed out and taken over by by

1028
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 6: drug cartels and by allies of drug cartels. Ecuador, just

1029
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 6: in the in the span of the Trump and Biden administration,

1030
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 6: went from one of the safest countries in South America

1031
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 6: to one of the most dangerous countries in South America

1032
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 6: as drug gangs are basically you know, taking the entire

1033
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 6: country over with the with the help of the US

1034
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 6: Ambassador to Ecuador, under both the Trump administration and and

1035
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 6: the Biden administration, it feels like, as in Washington, d C.

1036
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 6: You can get you can get psilocyba, and you can

1037
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 6: get you can get legal marijuana. Uh and with with

1038
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 6: with enough pro upper education and public health, I feel

1039
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 6: like you could actually make it so that people can

1040
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 6: get access to drugs that are currently illegal and that

1041
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 6: they use on a recreational basis, approach it from a

1042
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 6: public health perspective, and then basically shut down these cartels

1043
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 6: because you shut down their ability to exist, and then

1044
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 6: you give these South and Central American countries a chance

1045
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 6: to actually be democracies rather than completely controlled by these cartels.

1046
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 6: But there must be some advantage to the current situation

1047
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 6: for US foreign policy, because it just seems clear at

1048
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 6: this point that you've got to move in that direction,

1049
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 6: even though that isn't something you can really kind of

1050
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 6: say as a candidate today, I don't know, like, where

1051
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 6: do you come down on this as somebody kind of

1052
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 6: looking back.

1053
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: I think that's a much better answer and point than

1054
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: the one I made to Emily's question, because this really

1055
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: is where these two issues intersect. And Emily, I've read

1056
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: some of what you've written about how unwittingly certainly our

1057
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: current immigration system, our current border policies really serve to

1058
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: strengthen cartels, and much in the way that I described,

1059
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, cartels placing a premium on the ability to

1060
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: cross marijuana back in the early two thousands when it

1061
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: was still illegal in the United States and people were

1062
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: willing to literally die.

1063
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 4: Or to kill for the privilege of being able to

1064
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 4: do that.

1065
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: These cartels are now making billions of dollars on the ability.

1066
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 4: To transit human beings into the United States.

1067
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: And if there is no legal pathway to come here,

1068
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: then perhaps the only recourse you feel, as a young

1069
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: mother with young kids who fears death in your home

1070
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: country is to pay you the thousands of dollars to

1071
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: these cartels. The tens of thousands in some cases to

1072
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: get yourself and your kids across, which by the way,

1073
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: may not work. You might end up dead in the

1074
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: attempt or on the other side. And I think the

1075
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: same is very true with our drug war. We have

1076
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: unintentional allowed and really supercharged these cartels in Mexico for sure,

1077
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,439
Speaker 1: but Ryan pointed this out earlier. They kind of serve

1078
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: as almost a shadow or separate government at a local

1079
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: level and really in some cases on a national level

1080
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: throughout the Americas, and that is directly connected to United

1081
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: States policy, well intentioned going back fifty plus years to

1082
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: the initiation of the War on drugs, but with disastrous results.

1083
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean, we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars

1084
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: and drugs are not less likely to be in the

1085
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: hands of American citizens or even our kids, you know,

1086
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: tragically than they were before. But we have empowered these

1087
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: cartels to the detriment of the stability of these countries,

1088
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: which then exacerbates outbound flow of migrants who are like, look,

1089
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: this is a shit show where I am right now.

1090
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: I cannot stay here, cannot find a job, I cannot

1091
00:58:59,040 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: protect my family.

1092
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 4: I have no choice but to leave.

1093
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: So yes, these two issues come together in this way,

1094
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: and I think it really speaks to trying to find

1095
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: some common sense in the United States drug policy and

1096
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: addiction policy. We have the largest prison population on the

1097
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: planet and within the most heavily incarcerated country. Texas has

1098
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: the largest prison population in America. There are so many

1099
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: challenges that we could address if we took the drug

1100
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: war seriously, began to unwind it and replace it with rational, logical,

1101
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: humane policies that make us better and safer and also

1102
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: help to undercut the power and influence of cartels in

1103
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: the Americas.

1104
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 7: We can all agree on that. I think there you

1105
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 7: go perfect tell us.

1106
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 6: I would quibble with well intentioned, but that's fair enough.

1107
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 6: It doesn't actually and the intentions don't matter.

1108
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 4: It doesn't point take it better.

1109
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 7: Tell us what you're doing with power by people.

1110
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: We have a group in Texas that is focused on

1111
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: registering voters in a state that makes it hard to

1112
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: register than any other any in the Union. It's also

1113
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: the toughest state in the nation in which to vote,

1114
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: and I think that has a lot to do with

1115
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, in twenty twelve, Obama lost

1116
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: Texas by sixteen. Hillary lost it by nine and then

1117
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: Biden lost it by only five.

1118
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 4: And a half.

1119
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: That's without any of those candidates spending a dime or

1120
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: a minute in the state of Texas.

1121
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 4: That's just the natural trajectory of our state.

1122
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: And so the millions of unregistered, especially young voters out

1123
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: there are seen as a threat by the Republicans.

1124
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 4: Who are in power.

1125
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: And whether you're a Republican, Democrat, independent, unaffiliated, hopefully you

1126
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: believe in free and fair, democratically decided elections. We're something

1127
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: less than a democracy right now in Texas. So our

1128
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: volunteers get certified as volunteer deputy registrars, a requirement under

1129
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: Texas law. Where there is no online voter registration, no

1130
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: automatic voter registration, no same day voter registration, you actually

1131
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: have to go out there, find the eligible, unregistered voters

1132
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: and take them through that process.

1133
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,439
Speaker 4: And so our volunteers at Powered by People do that work.

1134
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of everyone out there across the two

1135
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty four counties bringing new voters in and

1136
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 1: hopefully helping to overcome the serious voter suppression and voter

1137
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: intimidation that we see here in Texas.

1138
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 6: All Right, that also has a book out on paperback

1139
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 6: now called We've Got to Try, which is about the

1140
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 6: history in Texas of civil rights and voting rights movements, which,

1141
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 6: unlike most politicians book, I think actually sounds good.

1142
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 3: Well, I'm actually going to read this. Most politicians don't

1143
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 3: write their books.

1144
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 6: They just have some staff or write it and they

1145
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 6: have their campaign by Ted Cruz. Thats right, but thanks, yeah,

1146
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 6: thank thanks so much for joining us, very much appreciate it.

1147
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, and thank you all for focusing on immigration.

1148
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: I wish that more people were talking about this and

1149
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: doing it in the way that you're doing it by

1150
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: going into the root cause, is talking through what the

1151
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: solutions might be and getting beyond just the talking points

1152
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: and the slogan.

1153
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 4: So thank you so much.

1154
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 7: Thank you.

1155
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 6: And if you guys caught this on YouTube, you can

1156
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 6: go to breakingpoints dot com subscribe to us. You can

1157
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 6: get an ad free probably if you listen to this

1158
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 6: whole thing, you got like eight different ad breaks. You

1159
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 6: don't want that, just get the premium version breakingpoints dot

1160
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:21,959
Speaker 6: Com and you get an emailed to you on every

1161
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 6: Friday Friday, the Don Draper Breaking Points.

1162
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 3: Right, that's some great sales work, right exactly.

1163
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much better, and thank you to

1164
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 5: everyone for tuning in. That does it for us today, Ryan,

1165
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 5: I think we found more common ground than even I expected.

1166
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 5: Here's my perspective on Beta. You've known him for a

1167
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 5: long time. I think he's somebody one of the rare

1168
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 5: people who is genuinely thoughtful and not a robot, even

1169
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 5: though I disagree with him just about everything. Genuinely thoughtful

1170
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 5: and not a robot, and he kind of wants to

1171
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 5: break out of the politician shell, do you know what

1172
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 5: I mean?

1173
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 7: It's almost to me like if you ran.

1174
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 5: For Congress, right, And I know that's impossible to ambition,

1175
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,919
Speaker 5: but I feel like there's sort of part of him

1176
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 5: that's trying to do both, and that's a really hard

1177
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 5: about something and have heterodot's opinions because everything doesn't fit

1178
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 5: perfectly into the Democratic party box. I feel like he

1179
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 5: was pretty careful not to be explicitly directly too critical

1180
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 5: of President Biden and Kamala Harris and people that he

1181
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 5: runs in similar circles with politically. But if he was

1182
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 5: something that was sort of outside of those circles, I

1183
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 5: don't know. I actually I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

1184
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 5: I genuinely appreciate it, because if you want to be

1185
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 5: able to do both, you have to.

1186
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 7: You have to be able to talk to both both worlds.

1187
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 4: Right.

1188
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 6: I think he's still he's still careful in the sense

1189
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 6: that he doesn't want a headline that says, like Beto

1190
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 6: O'Rourke slam Biden Biden at the height of a presidential

1191
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 6: campaign against Trump. But it takes zero effort to read

1192
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,959
Speaker 6: between the lines of what he's saying that he thinks

1193
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 6: that Biden is a failure when it comes to his

1194
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 6: border policies, that he's a paler version of Trump, and

1195
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 6: that that isn't the way to get there. But he

1196
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 6: also is willing to grant Biden the reality that he

1197
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 6: doesn't control Congress.

1198
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 3: Right now. The people are coming, so you have to

1199
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 3: do something.

1200
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 6: And so his argument is, look, if it's either they're

1201
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 6: coming in between the ports and dying by the thousands

1202
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 6: or given basically you know, asylum, so they you know,

1203
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 6: come in and boom, rubber stamp and kind of moved

1204
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 6: through into the system, it's better to have them going

1205
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 6: through the port of entry. But it's by no means

1206
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 6: an effective border policy. I still pessimistic that we'll ever

1207
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 6: get to one because good conversations aren't gonna necessarily, good

1208
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 6: conversations don't change the structural obstacles that we that we

1209
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 6: have here.

1210
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 3: But at least it gets it does get you closer

1211
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 3: at least.

1212
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, And like I, you know, could have kind of

1213
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 5: going on some of those things, but it sort of

1214
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 5: we're ad an impasse because I don't think like Fundamentsalge, if.

1215
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 6: He's willing to acknowledge, he's like, look, yeah, Biden and

1216
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 6: his rhetoric and his and being not Trump does bring

1217
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 6: more people.

1218
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 7: Up, right.

1219
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 5: And what was interesting about that is he stopped at

1220
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 5: mostly Biden's rhetoric and without going into you know, he said,

1221
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 5: it's true that probably granting more people humanitarian parole has

1222
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 5: brought more people up. I just think the magnitude of

1223
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 5: the crossings that we've seen. It's true that there was

1224
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 5: an increase in twenty nineteen, but the magnitude of what

1225
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 5: we've seen under Biden.

1226
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 7: The Red crossworker that I talked to you there like

1227
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 7: that is.

1228
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 3: We're seeing a surge that is significant.

1229
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 7: It's not just COVID.

1230
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 5: It's almost impossible to say that that's just COVID or

1231
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 5: US coups in Venezuela, especially when you look at you know,

1232
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 5: we're opening up pathways specifically for Cubans and Venezuelans and

1233
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 5: Haitians and you see more. So there is clearly a correlation.

1234
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 5: And to me, the as I was even just having

1235
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 5: this conversation, which is one of the things I liked

1236
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 5: about the conversation, it does remind me so much of

1237
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 5: what I think about student loans, which is that like, yes,

1238
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 5: I think people have unfair debt. I think it was

1239
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 5: you know, in many cases working class people were basically

1240
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 5: like bamboozled by the bullshit system. Not to say they

1241
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 5: don't an agency, but that like this is your ticket

1242
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 5: to the middle class. We created a very narrow pathway.

1243
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 5: You have to have a degree for all of these

1244
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 5: different jobs. And until we fix the root cause. At

1245
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 5: the same time as maybe we create more lenient pathways,

1246
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 5: you're going to see more people dying in the Darien Gap.

1247
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 5: You're going to see more people dying in the desert,

1248
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 5: no matter what Biden or Greg Abbott do.

1249
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 6: Interestingly, the other parallel is that the reason you have

1250
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,439
Speaker 6: a band aid student aid policy is because you can't

1251
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 6: get anything through Congress.

1252
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I actually what can the executive do?

1253
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 6: And they do something and the Supreme Courts like, ah,

1254
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 6: you actually can't even do that, Like okay, well that

1255
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 6: we're going to do it in pieces instead, So instead

1256
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 6: of like putting a band aid on whom, they put

1257
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 6: like a five different cut.

1258
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 7: Up band aids half the puzzle.

1259
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 6: So and it's the same situation with immigration, and it

1260
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 6: goes back to what we were saring on West Show,

1261
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 6: where the question becomes like can America actually do anything?

1262
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 6: Like do we have a political system that is capable

1263
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 6: of producing enough consensus to generate any policy in any direction?

1264
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 6: Because so many checks and balances and choke points were

1265
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 6: built into our system that it has always required some

1266
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 6: consensus and we don't really have that anymore. And so it's,

1267
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 6: like Beto said, the only chance of solving this seems

1268
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 6: to be Democrats take the House to send it and

1269
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 6: the White House and decide to put political capital into

1270
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 6: it in the moment they have that, or Republicans take

1271
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 6: all three and then you know, look out, like we'll

1272
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 6: see what they do.

1273
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, I see you, guys. Both as like parallel gen.

1274
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 5: Xers, similar hair, similar interests in drugs and politics and

1275
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 5: one of you went into politics, one of you went

1276
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 5: into journalism.

1277
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's true.

1278
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 3: But again, like that's why it's written a couple of books,

1279
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 3: one on drug policies, right.

1280
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, his book on Texas is kind of like we

1281
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 5: got people like a Texas version of it, which is

1282
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 5: one of your books.

1283
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 3: He's a better skateboarder by far.

1284
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 5: But anyway, all that is to say it was pleasantly

1285
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 5: he's he's obviously, at least since I followed his career,

1286
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 5: he's always been a little bit more heterodox in your

1287
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 5: average Democrat. But because he was so feted, I think

1288
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 5: by a lot of people who saw him as someone

1289
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 5: who could get Democrats more power, I was just pleasantly

1290
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 5: surprised that he wasn't as boxed in as I guess

1291
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,719
Speaker 5: I expected him to be. So it was a great conversation.

1292
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 5: I'm so happy we focused on the issue.

1293
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 3: I wish he'd one instead of Biden. Maybe they would

1294
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 3: have done something different, could have been interesting.

1295
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe wouldn't have had the Arilanrie situation in Haiti.

1296
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 3: Oh no way, Yeah, who knows?

1297
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 7: Deep states? Deep Ryan?

1298
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, Deep States, the deep state.

1299
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 5: George Sephanopolis, I don't know if you saw this this week,

1300
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 5: he said, the deep state is full of patriots, so

1301
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 5: the all right, well that does it for us on

1302
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 5: today's edition of the show. We will be back here

1303
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 5: next Friday, well next Oneesday with more next Friday, with

1304
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 5: more of this format.

1305
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 7: We're hoping to have some really good guests.

1306
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and watch your Yeah, we're hoping to confirm good

1307
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 3: guests for next week. They're very very close to that.

1308
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 3: Watch your inbox this weekend for update about Breaking Points.

1309
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 3: It's not a huge deal, but it's pretty it's pretty cool,

1310
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 3: pretty cool, pretty cool.

1311
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 7: We're excited about.

1312
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 3: It and that you will be like.

1313
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 4: This.

1314
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 6: It won't be I think as impactful as you're thinking

1315
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 6: to you yourself, and we hope it's not.

1316
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 7: Actually and you'll be back here what on Tuesday?

1317
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. I'll be back here with Saga for

1318
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 3: a bro show on Tuesday.

1319
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 5: Bro Show Tuesday, Counterpoints back Wednesday, and Counterpoints back Friday.

1320
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 7: We'll see you then,