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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell Tonight. Teen ballerina Ella

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Speaker 1: just fifteen, hit and killed by a speeding luxury boat

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Speaker 1: as Ella waterskied at a birthday party. The boat jets off,

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Speaker 1: leaving Ella for dead, but after a massive search, the vessel.

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Speaker 2: Just spotted is jogged at a four million dollar Coral

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Speaker 2: Gables compound.

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Speaker 1: According to experts, there is no way the driver did

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Speaker 1: not know he mowed over the teen ballerina Ella. Good evening,

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 3: All those significant progress has been made. This is still

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Speaker 3: an active investigation. We are asking anyone who witnessed the

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Speaker 3: accident or may have video footage to call the Wildlife

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Speaker 3: on ther hotline at eight eight eight four zero four

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Speaker 3: three nine two four, Miami Day Crimestoppers at three h

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Speaker 3: five four seven one A four seven seven. Our hearts

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Speaker 3: and prayers are with the family and friends of Ella

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Speaker 3: Alder and they remain in our thoughts during this difficult time.

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Speaker 1: I just cannot imagine what Ella's parents and family are

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Speaker 1: going through to lose your child at age fifteen, just

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Speaker 1: fifteen years old, and this girl.

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Speaker 2: Was a star.

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Speaker 1: We keep saying we keep hearing teen Ballerina. That's because

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Speaker 1: Ella had starred in so many very serious and very

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Speaker 1: sophisticated ballet performances. Just an amazing talent, the apple of

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Speaker 1: her parents eye.

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Speaker 2: Of course, that could be said.

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Speaker 1: Have millions of fifteen year olds, they're the apple of

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Speaker 1: their parent's eye.

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Speaker 2: But the dichotomy of.

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Speaker 1: The sharp contrast of letting your little girl go to

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Speaker 1: a birthday party. She's an avid skier, avid swimmer, and

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Speaker 1: then to find out she's dead, and how in the

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Speaker 1: hay could the boater speed away as if nothing happened.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that for one minute. What exactly did happen?

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Speaker 4: Listen?

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Speaker 5: Ella makes a good run on the wakeboard but eventually

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Speaker 5: ends up in the water, still wearing a life vest.

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Speaker 5: Ella makes it back over to the board and clings

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Speaker 5: to it while she's towed back up to the yacht.

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Speaker 5: While Ella's waiting in the water, another boat gets dangerously

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Speaker 5: close to her and shows no sign of stopping. Moments later,

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Speaker 5: the boat strikes Ella, forcing her underneath. When Ella floats

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Speaker 5: back up to the surface, she's limp and there's blood

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Speaker 5: in the water. Ella dies before they make it back

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Speaker 5: to shore.

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all Star panel makes sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know right now, but for straight out to Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigation reporter who has been on the

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Speaker 1: case since the very beginning when we heard Ella, a

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old little girl, had been killed, Sidney Sumner

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Speaker 1: joining us. Sidney, leave me up to the moment where

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Speaker 1: Ella is struck by a boat and according to reports

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Speaker 1: that I have no reason to disbelieve the boater just

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Speaker 1: took off in the last hours after a massive search,

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Speaker 1: that boat has been spotted outside a four million dollar mansion.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hit me, Sidney.

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Speaker 6: Nancy. Ella is fifteen years old and she is joined

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Speaker 6: by a group of twelve friends to celebrate a birthday.

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Speaker 6: They were driven on a boat.

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Speaker 2: It's unclear if this is one of the girl's.

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Speaker 6: Fathers or maybe a rental company that was out driving

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Speaker 6: the girls, but they took to Biscayne Bay in the

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Speaker 6: late afternoon, around four thirty pm. So the girls were

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Speaker 6: on this boat taking turns wakeboarding, so standing on one

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Speaker 6: board not two water skis a board and holding a

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Speaker 6: tow line behind the boat, and one of her friends

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Speaker 6: were behind the boat being towed. They both fell off

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Speaker 6: at different times in different places in the water and

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Speaker 6: We're waiting to be picked back up and get back

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Speaker 6: in the boat. At this point, Ella is hit by

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Speaker 6: a forty foot Boston whaler boat that goes directly over

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Speaker 6: at the top of her. She disappears below the water,

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Speaker 6: and when she floats back to the surface, there's lots

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Speaker 6: of blood in the water and Ella is limp Guys.

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Speaker 1: Sydney Sumner joining me crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter. But

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Speaker 1: for just one moment, I just want to talk about

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Speaker 1: Ella to Daniel Grammis joining US high profile maritime lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and he's actually born and raised in this area in Miami. Daniel,

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Speaker 1: do you have children, Not yet, Nancy, but if I did,

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Speaker 1: I probably would not have been taking him to that

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Speaker 1: area to do the way for and it is a

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Speaker 1: high traffic area. Okay, Daniel, That is not at all

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Speaker 1: what I was going to ask you regarding what Elli's

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Speaker 1: family has been going through. And I'm detecting your suggestion

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Speaker 1: that somehow this is the family or the birthday party

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Speaker 1: hosts thought it is not. There were many boats out,

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Speaker 1: there were many people skiing, water boarding, swimming. This is

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Speaker 1: a recreational area. I am a very avid diver all

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Speaker 1: around the world, swimmer water enthusiasts. Let me just say,

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Speaker 1: and there is no circumstance in a recreational water area

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Speaker 1: that a boater should be at that speed, much less

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Speaker 1: leave the scene of a crash.

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Speaker 2: Bam.

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Speaker 1: This was not an air where the children should not

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Speaker 1: have been swimming.

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Speaker 2: Where are you? Where are you getting that well?

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Speaker 7: I definitely agree that the vessel that hit Ella is

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Speaker 7: at fault. They were reckless. They should have had a

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Speaker 7: look out and ultimately it is on them to avoid

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Speaker 7: hitting Ella. And this is reckless operation. And we don't

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Speaker 7: know yet whether or not it was a hit and run,

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Speaker 7: but I think it's likely.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if it's a hit and run. What

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Speaker 1: you believe all the witnesses are lying. No, they said

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Speaker 1: Ella was hit, there was blood and the water, and

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Speaker 1: the driver took off.

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Speaker 2: That's a hit and run.

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Speaker 7: It is as of right now, that's what we're going

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Speaker 7: to label it. We haven't got any facts whether or

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Speaker 7: not the driver.

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Speaker 2: Knew the authorities.

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Speaker 1: If there was nothing wrong with what the boat did,

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Speaker 1: do you think we would have had a helicopters overhead

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Speaker 1: and the coast guard and everybody else looking for the boat. No,

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Speaker 1: they were looking for the boat because it hit Ella

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Speaker 1: and took off.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

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Speaker 1: That's not even when I was going to talk about

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Speaker 1: you know what, Dan, don't move, But trust me, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to circle back with you. Joining right now is

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, Lucky for me,

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Speaker 1: detective out of Lexington County Sheriff's Department, and literally the

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide.

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Speaker 2: Investigation Field Guide. She wrote the book.

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Speaker 1: But doctor Dupre, on a personal note, you have handled

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Speaker 1: so many child autopsies and when I look at this girl, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: perfectly straight teeth, gorgeous outfit, professional photo. The parents have

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Speaker 1: invested doctor Dupree all of their love, all of their hopes.

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Speaker 1: They've transferred their own dreams to making her dreams come true,

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Speaker 1: working long hours to support her, not only in school

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Speaker 1: where she was a star student.

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Speaker 2: But in her ballet.

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Speaker 1: Listen, doctor Dupree, you've heard me talk about it. Lucy

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Speaker 1: is a football manager and John David plays multiple sports.

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Speaker 1: They're both honor students. You know how hard that is

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Speaker 1: for the parent to try to make help them make

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Speaker 1: their dreams come true. I mean that's a parent's focus,

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Speaker 1: their goal. And now they find out Ella's at this

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Speaker 1: birthday party and this happens to her. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you handle dealing with parents in these

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Speaker 1: autopsies of children.

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Speaker 2: Nancy.

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Speaker 8: This is such a tragic case for a beautiful young lady,

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Speaker 8: and it's difficult. It weighs on I'm sure all of

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Speaker 8: us who do these kinds of things, and you have

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Speaker 8: to talk to the parents, but at least what we

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Speaker 8: try to do is give them some closure, to give

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Speaker 8: them some answer that word closure, because it really isn't.

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Speaker 8: But we try to help them as best we can

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Speaker 8: during these difficult times. And she was a beautiful young lady.

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Speaker 8: Such a horrible story.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: To think this little girl was out there first of all,

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Speaker 1: joining me in addition to a high profile lawyer, maritime

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Speaker 1: lawyer Daniel Grammis from Miami Sidney Sumner and doctor Dupree

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Speaker 1: joining me right now is Phil Odem voting accident reconstructionist.

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Speaker 1: He's the owner of H two to Investigations and former

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Speaker 1: law enforcement Phil, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You see voting accidents all the time, you investigate them,

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Speaker 1: you solve them. That's what you do, that's what you eat,

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Speaker 1: what you breathe and what you live.

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Speaker 2: How do you deal with parents like Ellis? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: How they put one foot in front of the other

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Speaker 1: after finding out their little girls out there swimming and waterboarding,

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Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, there's literally blood in

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Speaker 1: the water and all you see is elbows.

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Speaker 2: And tailhole of the driver the boat. He's gone.

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Speaker 9: Compassion. That's the word all in word I can think

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Speaker 9: of is compassion. You have to deal with these folks.

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Speaker 9: I have children.

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Speaker 10: I can't imagine what it's like losing a child, but

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Speaker 10: you have to take it in very small steps and

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Speaker 10: try to give the family the answers the best that

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Speaker 10: you can get them.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened,

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Speaker 1: phil Odom, because there is no way that this driver

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Speaker 1: did not know what happened.

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Speaker 11: Listen, the boat that hit Ellen never slowed down despite

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Speaker 11: a legal requirement to stop, call law enforcement and give aid.

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Speaker 11: Maritime lawyers have contested claims the boat operator may not

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Speaker 11: have realized they hit someone, seeing anyone on board would

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Speaker 11: have felt the hit. A witness saw a fishing boat

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Speaker 11: past the gray yacht, then heard screams and distress calls

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Speaker 11: over the Yachts Radio. They described the boat as a

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Speaker 11: light blue center console with dark blue bottom paint and

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Speaker 11: three or four outboard engines.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I need to understand that description. It's not just

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Speaker 1: a little fishing boat. This is a full on yacht.

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Speaker 1: Well what is that with three outboard engines?

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Speaker 2: Phil? What is that?

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Speaker 7: Actually? Four?

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Speaker 2: Four?

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Speaker 10: There was actually four, not three. I couldn't see the

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Speaker 10: horse power. But your question is how does that happen?

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Speaker 10: It's called in attention and my federal law rule five,

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Speaker 10: the operator a vessel must maintain a bomber lookout at

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Speaker 10: all times. The only way that this could have happened

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Speaker 10: was through inattention. He did not see her in the water,

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Speaker 10: which she was.

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Speaker 9: Obligated to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, we earlier heard Daniel Grammis state that they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been out there boating because of the area. Okay,

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Speaker 1: technical legal term objection, that's what I call BS that

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Speaker 1: I could smell it all the way here in this

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Speaker 1: studio where this occurred is not far offshore. It's near

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Speaker 1: a beach area, and.

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Speaker 2: It's a recreational area.

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Speaker 1: There's no reason that Ella and her birthday party group

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Speaker 1: should not.

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Speaker 2: Have been there. Phil odom I agree with you one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent.

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Speaker 9: It's all about waters.

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Speaker 10: Obviously, you can ski in that area, four in that area,

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Speaker 10: and if there is that type of traffic out there,

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Speaker 10: then every operator of a boat should be in full attention.

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Speaker 10: They should be more aware of their surroundings than if

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Speaker 10: they were in very open water but no traffic depity

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Speaker 10: or anything.

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Speaker 9: But somebody fell asleep with the switch and wasn't paying attention,

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Speaker 9: and that's how this accident occurred.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you say four outboard motors, why does one

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Speaker 1: vessel one yacht need for outboard motors? What does that indicate?

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Speaker 1: How much what a yacht like this cost? And what's

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Speaker 1: the difference between a boat and a yacht.

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Speaker 10: Nay, I can't afford a boat like that, so I

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Speaker 10: can't tell you the amount of money, but probably close

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Speaker 10: to the millions.

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Speaker 9: And the reason for the four outboards. And again I

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Speaker 9: don't know a horse power it is to go fast.

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Speaker 10: When you have a boat like that, it is four

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Speaker 10: foot long and you want to go fast, you need

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Speaker 10: that type of horsepower.

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Speaker 9: To go fast.

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Speaker 1: Guys, how could he possibly have not known he had

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Speaker 1: struck down Ella? It reminds me of a similar case

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Speaker 1: dealing with a car. The defendis name. I will never

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Speaker 1: forget her. Shante Mallard. Listen Schante.

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Speaker 12: Mallard drives home, a route she has taken many times,

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Speaker 12: but this night she strikes Gregory Glenn Biggs, who's walking

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Speaker 12: along the highway. His body is propelled partially through the windshield,

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Speaker 12: but Biggs does not die on impact. Instead of pulling

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Speaker 12: over and calling police, Mallard stops and tries to pull

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Speaker 12: the moaning man off her car. When she can't dislodge

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Speaker 12: the seriously wounded and bleeding man from her windshield, Mallard

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Speaker 12: drives home, parks in the garage, and leaves Biggs there

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Speaker 12: for hours to die.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm just trying to figure out, Tom, you

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Speaker 1: are the boning accident construction constructionists feel odum of H

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Speaker 1: two investigations, but back to high profile maritime lawyer joining

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Speaker 1: us out of this jurisdiction, Daniel Grammis. Daniel, based on

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Speaker 1: what our accident reconstruction is is telling us, how could

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Speaker 1: the driver possibly have not known he hit Ella.

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Speaker 7: I think he did know. I think the forensic data

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Speaker 7: of the Alphor engines is going to show in the

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Speaker 7: RPM's john you know, even in a vessel that's about

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Speaker 7: thirty pounds. When you hit a hard object like that,

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Speaker 7: you feel it. So you know, all this conversation that

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Speaker 7: he may not have heard it, I don't really buy it.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 7: I'm a voter myself, and you hit the smallest thing

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Speaker 7: and you feel those vibrations, and no matter what, if

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Speaker 7: you had the proper lookout, you would have seen her. So,

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Speaker 7: no matter what, it was careless operation on the vessel operator.

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Speaker 12: All motor boats in Florida are required to be registered

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Speaker 12: and numbered by the County tax Collector's office within thirty

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Speaker 12: days of purchase. Owners are required to paint its number

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Speaker 12: on both sides of the boat above the waterline, similar

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Speaker 12: to a car's license plate. Owners must renew the registration annually,

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Speaker 12: display a tag, and keep the registration documents on board.

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Speaker 1: It appears to me, and I'm going to go to

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Speaker 1: Daniel Grammus on this, who is a high profile maritime

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Speaker 1: lawyer born and raised in this jurisdiction, Miami, Avid voter, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me like he had.

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Speaker 2: His boat his yacht.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, I know you boat owners are very particular

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Speaker 1: about calling your.

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Speaker 2: Yacht a boat.

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Speaker 1: He had his yacht in a private docking area kind

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Speaker 1: of an inlet of sorts.

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Speaker 7: Yes, he had the convenience of having his vessel right

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Speaker 7: behind his house, which you know, in a situation like this,

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Speaker 7: he was able to get away pretty easily. And you know,

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Speaker 7: they didn't find the vessel until two days later, which

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Speaker 7: to me is very suspicious.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, because I feel the

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Speaker 1: same way, Daniel. I kind of hate to agree with

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Speaker 1: you on anything, but I.

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Speaker 2: Found that very suspicious too. Why do you say that.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, all these reports were coming out in

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Speaker 7: the local news. This was not something that was a secret,

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Speaker 7: and we knew about the description of this vessel, and

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Speaker 7: we knew about the path of that the vessel was

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Speaker 7: likely going. If you're that operator and you truly had

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Speaker 7: nothing and you didn't do anything wrong or per se,

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Speaker 7: the conversation is, then you would come forward a lot

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Speaker 7: quicker and say, hey, that might have been me. I

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Speaker 7: didn't notice, But that's not what we had here. We

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Speaker 7: had time to think about how we're going to approach

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Speaker 7: this situation. And two days later, in fact, I don't

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Speaker 7: even think this person came forward. I think the FWC

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00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 7: was the one that actually found the vessel. And then

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Speaker 7: quote unquote, we see cooperation, which to the extent we

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Speaker 7: don't know yet, but we will find out.

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Speaker 1: When you say FWC, Daniel, to what are you referring to?

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Speaker 7: The FWC is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Control here

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Speaker 7: in Florida and the patrol our waters are surrounding waters,

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Speaker 7: including fishery regulations and also enforcing the laws on the water.

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Speaker 1: Daniel, I want to follow up on what you just said.

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Speaker 1: Let me put it to you the way I would

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Speaker 1: tell a jerry. This guy had to be hiding under

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Speaker 1: a rock in a cave on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the world, with no cable and no Internet, not to

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Speaker 1: know that his yacht was under suspicion that he was

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Speaker 1: being looked for. So I know you're normally the one

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00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 1: doing the cross examination, Daniel Grammos. But was the defendant

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Speaker 1: under a rock in a cave on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the world without internet or cable that's a yes.

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Speaker 7: No, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't think

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Speaker 7: he is.

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm taking that as a note.

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Speaker 7: Look at where he's at on the water the house.

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Speaker 1: Yes, as Daniel described it, he had the convenience of

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Speaker 1: docking right outside his house and walking I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It looks like thirty forty maybe fifty feet into his mansion, passing.

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Speaker 2: By his pool en route.

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Speaker 1: That said, I guarantee you they've got internet.

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Speaker 2: And gable in there. So what leads you to believe

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Speaker 2: you know?

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Speaker 1: Let me ask phil Odom phil Otum joining me in

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Speaker 1: addition to Daniel Grammys said doctor dupree phil I agree

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Speaker 1: with Grammys.

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Speaker 2: This guy didn't say, look, I hit the girl. I

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Speaker 2: didn't mean to. At first. I wasn't sure what happened.

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Speaker 1: Then I realized what happened, and I panicked and I ran,

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Speaker 1: here's my yacht. I did it, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to cause the family any more grief. Now that I

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00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 1: could have respected well.

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Speaker 9: Could be an easier way to do it too. He

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00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 9: had to have known exactly what Rowby was taking. Even

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Speaker 9: if he truly believed he did hit.

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Speaker 10: Her or did nothing, then why wouldn't he call forlornificial

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Speaker 10: wildlife and go, hey, I was in this area, I

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Speaker 10: owned this hype of boat.

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Speaker 9: Would you guys like to come out and look.

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Speaker 10: At That would have been upfront, That would have been honest.

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Speaker 10: That would have put a little more credibility in a story.

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Speaker 10: But when he wasted two days and as you said,

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Speaker 10: it put him out of lot with no internet know anything.

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Speaker 10: That had to be a big story of Florida. It's

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Speaker 10: a story you're in Texas. For him not to put

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Speaker 10: two and two together, I don't want to tell you.

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Speaker 1: You know another thing, Doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologists, medical

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Speaker 1: examiner and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. And you

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00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: have a recent book, what's the name of your knee book,

357
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, about Alex Murdog.

358
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Speaker 2: It's called Money, Mischief and Murder. The Downfall of the

359
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 2: Murdog Dynasty. The rest of the story.

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Speaker 1: I live through the trial. I can't guarantee I'm going

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Speaker 1: to read a book about it. But doctor Dupre, I've

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00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: certainly poured over your Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Dupree,

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Speaker 1: You've handled so many boating accident cases and.

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Speaker 2: Car crash cases.

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Speaker 1: Very often people may not hear that they hit someone,

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Speaker 1: but certainly you can feel it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you.

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Speaker 1: Ever hit anything with your car, you don't necessarily have

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Speaker 1: to hear it, you can feel it. That's what Graham's

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00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: was saying earlier.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, absolutely, there had to be something you know you

372
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Speaker 8: can tell when you get something absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Even on a boat, Doctor Dupree, You've handled so many

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Speaker 1: water deaths.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you handled and investigated the death of Malory Beach.

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Speaker 1: You know, outside the investigation, there is something very different,

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Speaker 1: very unique. It's a whole another animal. And I know

379
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: when I dealt with drowning homicides or water related homicides,

380
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: gathering the evidence, it's a whole another skill set and prosecuting,

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Speaker 1: investigating any mishap on the water.

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Speaker 2: Explain that. I compare it to the cases you've handled well, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: Of course, with the water, a lot of the forensic

384
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 8: evidence is literally washed away. As you know, in any

385
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 8: crime like this, the body itself can tell us so

386
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 8: many things, but when it's been in the water, when

387
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 8: there's been a tragedy like this, so much of that

388
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 8: is taken away. And these these are typically significant injuries

389
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Speaker 8: to the person, and then that water just takes away

390
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 8: some of the evidence, the forensic evidence that we my mind,

391
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 8: that makes it much more difficult.

392
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: Another thing I don't understand, and maybe Daniel or Field

393
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: could jump in and clear this up for me. I

394
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: thought that boats are like vehicles. For instance, you know,

395
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: you have to register your vehicle, you have to have

396
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 1: insurance on it, and you've got the ven number and

397
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: everything else on that insurance. Don't boats have to be

398
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: registered and identified in much the same way to you, Daniel,

399
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct?

400
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 7: Yes, that's correct. So they do require registration, but you know,

401
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 7: as far as whether or not they're going to have

402
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 7: the same requirements as a car, they're a little bit different.

403
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 7: And how they can register you can do state, federal,

404
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 7: or even some vessels they can register them in foreign

405
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 7: countries for legal benefits. But you know, they have to

406
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 7: properly display what's called in Florida we call FL numbers

407
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 7: on the sides of the vessel.

408
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 9: And let us document it.

409
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 10: If it's that they don't have to display ANFL number

410
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 10: or number on the side.

411
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 13: The owners of the home where the boat was located

412
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 13: have been identified as Carlos Alonso and his wife, Magali Alonso.

413
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 13: The Miami Herald reports that a child of the Alonzo's

414
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 13: has a boat registered to him. Authorities have said the

415
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 13: owners are cooperating with the investigation, but have not identified

416
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 13: who the owners are or who was driving at the

417
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Speaker 13: time of Ella's death.

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Speaker 2: Then, how is that cooperating.

419
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: If they are cooperating, they would tell us who are

420
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: the owners and who was driving.

421
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: So I don't know that taking off at a high.

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00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: Speed and hiding your boat in an obscure docking position

423
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: is really cooperating. But that said, joining me, Sidney Simoner,

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00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Sydney tell me about

425
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: the search for the boat that has just been spotted

426
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: and recovered Nancy.

427
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 6: FWC Chairman Rodney Barretto has described that search as good

428
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 6: old fashioned police work. Once they had a physical description

429
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 6: of the boat they were looking for, officers were dispatched

430
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 6: to all of the canals from South Miami to Coconut

431
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Speaker 6: Grove to try and locate this boat.

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00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: Dispatch who was dispatched, Sydney FWC officers? Okay, dispatch from

433
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: where to where?

434
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 6: South Miami all the way to Coconut Grove.

435
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: Okay.

436
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: Daniel Graham's joining US maritime lawyer in this jurisdiction?

437
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: How big?

438
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: How large of a swath of water is that? How

439
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: where were they looking?

440
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 7: It's a pretty large area. You know, Miami has a

441
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 7: lot of waterfront homes in the area, so at least

442
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 7: a day to find the vessel in this area.

443
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Sydney. How long was the search? Didn't

444
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: they go for several days? That is correct, Nancy.

445
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 12: I believe we learned where the boat was.

446
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 6: Located on Tuesday, and this accident was Saturday, so there

447
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 6: was definitely a significant amount of times searching for this boat.

448
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: Guys, we are taking a look at the search for

449
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: the boat that, according to authorities FWC ran down a

450
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: teen girl ballerina, a gorgeous little girl. Right now, we're

451
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: sifting through the intricacies of how the.

452
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 2: Boat was the yacht was found. Why is that important?

453
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: Because if there is a jury trial, or if there

454
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: is a plea of any sort, the boat driver, the

455
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: yacht driver is going to fall under suspicion, obviously, And

456
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: to me, Daniel Grammas, the fact that authorities, the FWC

457
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: had to search for days to find this guy. They

458
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: finally find him through water searches and through aerial searches

459
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: and as they say, good old fashioned police work. If

460
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: this guy was cooperating, they wouldn't have had to do

461
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: all that, Daniel.

462
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 7: Well, Nancy, in situations like this, we you know, I

463
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 7: represent the victims, but you know, anticipating the defenses his

464
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 7: defense is going to be that he didn't see Ella,

465
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 7: perhaps the vote was on autopilot, and that there was

466
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 7: no opportunity to see here because the wakeboarding vote had

467
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 7: dropped her right in front of the vessel and he

468
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 7: had no opportunity to avoid and didn't notice at the

469
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 7: time of navigating the vessel. That's what I would assume

470
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 7: his defense is going to be when the time comes.

471
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: So, Daniel Graham is a maritime lawyer joining us out

472
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: of the Miami area. Daniel, do you believe that there

473
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: is any way that's not going to be brought up

474
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: at a plea or a trial that he basically hid

475
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: out while the Coast Guard and the FWC are turning

476
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: the world upside down to find him.

477
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 7: No, all these sorts of factors would come into play,

478
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 7: especially out of sentencing hearing, regarding how he came forward,

479
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 7: what are the circumstances, and what was said to me

480
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 7: after the incident. So all of these are going to

481
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 7: be factors that if he is convicted and there goes

482
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 7: to a sentencing hearing, you know, all the facts that

483
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 7: we have are going to be put forth before judge.

484
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel Grammas, I don't know that We're going to

485
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: have to wait for sentencing, because wouldn't you agree that

486
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: in so many felony cases, evidence of flight is introduced

487
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: In many jurisdictions. Of course, the prosecutor can't argue that

488
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: flight equals a dish of guilt. But I mean, you know,

489
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: when the Florida Highway Patrol comes up behind you, Daniel Grammas,

490
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: you might tap the brakes a little bit, but you

491
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: don't take off a ninety mph do you?

492
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: Because you have no reason to take off. I assume

493
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: right A hit and.

494
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 7: Run is an aggravating circumstance to a crime like this

495
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 7: is be one that they would take into consideration and sentencing.

496
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 7: Of course, his anticipated defense is going to say, well,

497
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 7: I didn't know, I didn't realize what happened, never all

498
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 7: what happened, and just kept on going my merry way

499
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 7: to my house in Coral Giebles.

500
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: You know another thing he could argue, and I certainly

501
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: don't want to give them fuel.

502
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: For fodder, but.

503
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: Daniel, he could blame those four outboard motors that phil

504
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: Odin was just describing, talk about the noise that they created,

505
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: claim that he was listening to music and because it

506
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: was outside on the water. He had it cranked up

507
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: really loudly. Then he would be asked, you didn't feel anything.

508
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: I find that hard to believe, and he could very

509
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: easily argue it was choppy. I was feeling all sorts

510
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: of bumps and ups and downs on the choppy water.

511
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: I didn't feel anything. Can't you just see that unfolding

512
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: in court, Daniel.

513
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, I can, and I can see. The opposite argument

514
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 7: to that is there's a huge difference between a light

515
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 7: chop of water and hitting an object in the water

516
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 7: like a person. The displacement of the water when it

517
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 7: hits the boat, the v shaped hole is need to

518
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 7: disperse that water. When you get an object, the vibrations

519
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 7: that that sends to the vessel is far different from

520
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 7: when you hit a chop. So you know, that would

521
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 7: be the counter argument too. I didn't realize. It just

522
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 7: felt like I hit, you know, with some sort of

523
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 7: way or light chop.

524
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 11: In an incident report, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation

525
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 11: Commission has identified the boater that hit and killed Ella Adler.

526
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 11: Carlos Alonso, the homeowner where the boat was found, admitted

527
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 11: he was driving the boat alone Saturday, May eleventh, neighbors

528
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 11: describe Alonzo as a family man and experienced voter, adding

529
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 11: that he is devastated by what happened. There has been

530
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 11: no word if any criminal charges will be filed.

531
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I would like to believe that, I really would.

532
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: But if you're devastated about what happened, then why are

533
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: you hiding and not coming forward to ases?

534
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: Suffering of the parents They just had to bury their.

535
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: Fifteay year old little girl, just fifteen gorgeous little girl,

536
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: the product of so much love, gone, gone forever. Joining

537
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: me is an all star panel, But I want to

538
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: go to boating accident reconstructionist owner H two zero investigations

539
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: phil odem.

540
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: Phiel what evidence?

541
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: We all can relate to evidence on a car because

542
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: we hear about it all the time. You've got a

543
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: broken front light, you have possibly blood on the car,

544
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: you have a.

545
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: Dent in the car.

546
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: We know what we're looking at for a car, a

547
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: vehicular homicide hitting run.

548
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: But on a boat, you're out.

549
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: In the water, which makes this type of investigation so

550
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: much more difficult because the evidence is lost.

551
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 9: It's going to be on the underside of or boat.

552
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 10: The evidence is going to be strations or transfers on

553
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 10: the whole boat.

554
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 9: The color of the weightboard will play a big part

555
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 9: of it, what color personal.

556
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 10: Flotation device was, and any anything else of color. Also,

557
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 10: we're unsure that this particular point in time, but it

558
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 10: sounds like there's probably a pops right, so she or

559
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 10: her wayboard went into a prop here. Other biological evidence

560
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 10: could be there. You're going to want to get that

561
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 10: boat out of water as soon as you can in

562
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 10: order to start analyzing that and get your forensics people

563
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 10: out there, along with her clothing that she was worn

564
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 10: that will.

565
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: Be gotten it autop So the clothing is important.

566
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 10: Why Phil, Because you'll be able to match the striations

567
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 10: or what actually caused it. I actually had a case

568
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 10: where I had a person could ran over by a

569
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 10: boat and the buckle, which was made of black plastic.

570
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 10: The personal flotation device wants to push you up above

571
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 10: the water, and the boat's actually holding you below the water, so.

572
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 9: That creates a certain a force on the.

573
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 10: Whole of the boat, and that buckle actually melted and

574
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 10: you could follow the path of the person that got

575
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 10: hit all the way underneath the hole to.

576
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 9: The back of the boat.

577
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: Daniel Grammis, maritime lawyer, are you familiar with what Phil

578
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: is saying? How could her swimsuit be a value in

579
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: gathering evidence? And what can you tell us about striations

580
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: and marks on the underside of the boat that the

581
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: FWC and authorities will be looking for.

582
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 7: Sure, you're going to look forward any of the clothing

583
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 7: or any of the wakeboard, any markings on the vessel

584
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 7: itself into the props on the skegs of the outboard engines.

585
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 7: But also I think it's important to get the electronical

586
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 7: data from the vessel, including the GPS navigational chart plotter data.

587
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 7: It's going to show the route that matches up with

588
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 7: where Ella was wayboarding in the area where she was found,

589
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 7: and then also the outboard engine data, because if Ella

590
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 7: was hit by the prop or her way forward winning

591
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 7: the prop, we're going to see some sort of disturbance

592
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 7: in the RPMs and the performance of the motors, and

593
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 7: if it matches up with what we see in the

594
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 7: GPS data, and they're going to be able to use

595
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 7: that as circumstantial evidence.

596
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: Crime stories.

597
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: With Nancy Gray, Daniel Grammas, and Phil odom and now

598
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: joining us, noown medical examiner, doctor Kendall Crowns joining us

599
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: out of Terrance County. That's fort Worth who is a

600
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: lecturer at the medical School at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns,

601
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: thanks for joining. You know, I just was thinking, Daniel,

602
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: about a recent case that all of us on the

603
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: panel to day worked, and that was the Alex and

604
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: Murdoch double murder of his wife Maggie and son Paul.

605
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,479
Speaker 1: In that case, it was amazing, Daniel, the level of

606
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: sophisticated data that was taken from his vehicle.

607
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: I believe it was a suburban vehicle.

608
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: The nav system showed us every time the window was

609
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: rolled up or down to throw out his wife's cell

610
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: phone along the side of the street, when he sped up,

611
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: when he slowed down, when he opened a door, when

612
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: he put it in part or drive. I'm thinking about

613
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: what must be a very sophisticated electronic system and data

614
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: system on.

615
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: A yacht that costs as much money.

616
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering about the jump in the RPMs also,

617
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: so what could be obtained specifically from the black box,

618
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: so to speak, from this yacht. What can I learn

619
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: about the precise moment that Ella was struck.

620
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, like you said, the jump in the RPM, You're

621
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 7: going to see some sort of issue there if there

622
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 7: was a problem skeg engine encounter with Ella. Also, what's

623
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 7: going to be interesting is whether or not there was

624
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 7: any sort of increase in speed, because we have this

625
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 7: theory that we were concerned about whether or not it's

626
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 7: a hit and run, and if you increase speed after

627
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 7: this incident, that's going to be a likely circumstantial factor.

628
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 7: That's going to say, why did you increase your speed

629
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 7: right after this incident? You know, what's your answer to that?

630
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 7: And that's going to be a very important answer to

631
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 7: that question.

632
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: Now I see, Daniel, why you win so many cases?

633
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: Another thing I heard which is food for thought.

634
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: No word on charges and joining me now are now

635
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: medical examiner who has handled countless water desk including water homicide.

636
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns joining us out of Terran County. Doctor

637
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, thank you so much for being with us.

638
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: Tell me about what you have gleaned regarding this case

639
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: and other cases similar to it that you have performed

640
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: the autopsies.

641
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 4: So anytime you have an individual struck by a boat,

642
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 4: you get the standard blunt force injuries, fractures of the skull,

643
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 4: fractures of the ribs, things of that nature. But then

644
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 4: also you have the additional effect of the propeller from

645
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 4: the motor boat. But this is a propeller from a

646
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: motor boat that I had case from a few years ago.

647
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 4: But what happens is the propellers spinning through the water,

648
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 4: it'll come into contact with the body and the prop

649
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: blades will actually cut into the body hatchets, if you will,

650
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 4: and leave these gigantic lines on the face and on

651
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 4: the body, and then can even make a large enough

652
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 4: cut into the body where it will eviscerate out the organs.

653
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: So you have that blunt force injury component from the

654
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 4: boat striking the individual, and then you have the kind

655
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 4: of chop wound effect from the propeller braides as it

656
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: crosses over the body.

657
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, I know that you have performed around ten

658
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: thousand autopsies, actually more. But when a death occurs in

659
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: the water, is it more difficult to get evidence from

660
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: the victim's body.

661
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 4: It can be because you have the effect of them

662
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 4: being in the water, which can wash away evidence. And

663
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 4: then if recovery takes a while, you have the loss

664
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: of blood seeping out of the body, and it will

665
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: change the look of the wounds, so you're unsure if

666
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 4: they happened at the time of death or if it's

667
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 4: something that happened later. And then you get the added

668
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: effect of the local fish and turtles all beginning to

669
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 4: bite or chew at the body. So if recovery takes

670
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 4: a while, the more evidence is lost, the longer the

671
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 4: body sits in that water.

672
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: Luckily, in this case, doctor crowns Ella was taken out

673
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: of the water almost immediately, but there was blood in

674
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: the water, so this was not, for instance, a closed

675
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: head injury where someone is hit by the boat and

676
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: they suffer a brain a blow to the head causing

677
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: in closed head injury. So explain to me what you

678
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: believe was the cause of the blood in the water.

679
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: It had to be from a propeller, do you agree, yes, she.

680
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 7: Would have been exposed to the propeller blades if she

681
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 7: went under the vessel, which is likely. The propellers create

682
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 7: some sort of suctions and the body would have likely

683
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 7: have been sucked into those propellers. Those bleeds hit also

684
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 7: the skeg which is right behind the propeller, and cause

685
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 7: some serious damage.

686
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 9: To the body.

687
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: As you all know a jury or judge can consider

688
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: behavior before, during, and after an incident. If you know

689
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: or think you know anything to help Elli's family in

690
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: this case, or to help the FWC as they build

691
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: their case, please dial eight eight eight for zero four

692
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: three nine two two repeat eight eight eight four zero

693
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: four three nine two two. We stop and remember American

694
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: hero Sergeant Philip Dale Nicks Colfax, North Carolina. Sergeant Nicks

695
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: shot and killed attempting to intervene in a crime at

696
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: a gas station. He survived by his grieving wife Kelly,

697
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: and beloved son Will American hero Sergeant Philip Dale Nicks.

698
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: I want to thank our guests today, maritime lawyer Daniel Grammis,

699
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: voting reconstructionist H two O Investigations, feel odem doctor Michelle Dupre,

700
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner, and a renowned medical examiner, doctor Kendall Crowns.

701
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: Thank you to them, but especially to you for being

702
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: with us tonight and everyone joining us seeking justice.

703
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off, good night,