WEBVTT - BONUS: World-Renowned Casting Director Linda Lowy Unpacks the Industry 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.720 Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.760 partnership with Higheartradio. 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:27.240 Micshas and Katie. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:33.120 Guys. 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:35.800 First of all, we have to say that at the 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.199 time of this recording, we're just coming together after my 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.839 one of my best friends in the entire world's favorite 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.599 day on Earth, which is Halloween. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:43.400 Halloween. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.360 Whose special holiday is that? Is that? Mister Cci, Oh, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:50.279 mister Cci. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:55.600 Mister Gierma Diazes. Yes, I love Halloween. I do, I do. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.720 And oddly enough, I was traveling. I was in Berlin 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.200 for about a week, so I was traveling up until 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.959 the thirtieth. So on the thirty first, on Halloween, I 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.720 ended up just staying like home in my living room 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:08.520 watching horror movies. 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:09.440 And I didn't do anything. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.600 I didn't even dress up, but I was I was 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:13.320 fine with that. I was exhausted. 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.119 Oh my god. Secretly, gee, you kind of loved that day. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.480 I mean, you've done all the things you could possibly 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.839 do out to celebrate Halloween. That it's like it's okay 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:25.679 once in a while to have a quiet And it 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:25.959 was on. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.640 A Tuesday, so it was like, okay, it's gonna stay 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:29.200 home and rest. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.880 Yes, for everyone listening. Who who has listened to Unpacking 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.760 the Toolbox? And it's different incantations. You know that a 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:39.959 big part of the show is that we always do 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.120 six degrees of horror films, and the biggest part of 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.600 horror films and just what we do in general is 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:48.960 the casting of them. 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.600 G Oh, oh, you brought that up. I wish we 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.360 had someone who is the best casting person in the 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.600 history of casting people around to speak about that. It's 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:02.280 so weird. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:03.440 Yes do we? 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.520 Oh? Way we do? Oh? 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.079 How like the person that oh, one of the people 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.440 that I think saved my life and saved Germo Diaz's 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.799 life along with Yeah, saved all of our lives and 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:24.800 countless countless actors. Countless actors have paid their rent, their mortgage, 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:29.119 their health insurance because of this. Yes, Goddess, goddess who 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.200 goes by the name of. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.239 So long, you all have saved me countless times. Betsy, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.360 you saved my life so many times, so many times, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:47.160 just by. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.600 Hiring, by the way, that was the smartest. I made 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.280 some good decisions and dumb ones, but that was one 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.480 of the smartest ones. We pat ourselves in the back 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.200 of the luck that we ended up meeting when we did, 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.480 and how when I also tell you too, because you 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.600 won't see this that Linda, there's a whole side of 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.680 our business for people who are listening to this, who 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.280 are learning about these sides of the business, where there 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.440 are these agents and agents represent actors. And when I 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.840 tell you that, Linda Lowie, every time there was a problem, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.119 I would look at Linda and say, I can't talk 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.359 to that person. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna lose 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.440 my mind. I'm gonna lose my much. She's like, will 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.520 save you. I'm We're going to save you for the 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.680 losing the mind part. I'll take care of it. From 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.440 from the actual casting, the reading, the choosing, the the 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:41.000 ad the deal making. It sounds the advocating just advocating 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.480 for different people, the ability to put an ensemble together, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.600 and also being just an all round lovely human being 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.280 who's the most terrific to be around, and also who 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:58.520 also has a baller husband. You can say that again. Yeah, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.040 And just so we're clear, we didn't know Linda Lowie 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.280 had a baller husband. When we hired Linda Lowie. She 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.000 was just a baller. It turns out it's a what. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:08.560 No, you didn't know that. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.440 Linda Lowe went along with the one and only Jeff Perry. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.680 For one We saw we saw Jeff Perry moving like 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.240 a microwave one day and we were like, what's that 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.440 dude doing here? And Linda said, that's my husband. We 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.800 were like, that's her husband. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.680 This isn't Prospect Studios, right, this is like the OG. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.400 I mean, for all of you guys listening, Linda Lowe 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.480 and Betsy Beers and Shondaland go back so long before 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.920 there was a Shondaland, before there was Shondaland. I mean 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.440 the of the Shondaland was with Linda Lowi And so 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.520 I'm just assuming you're at your offices in Prospect, and 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.000 lovely husband Jeff Perry, who is like the most amazing actor, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.280 is helping you put a microwave in your office. 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:52.560 I think it was a microwave. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.680 He was walking, he was he was bringing in some 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.560 boxes from the car because I was moving into my office. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.719 It was the only time I ever saw Shonda run. 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.120 She came running towards me because she saw him out 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.080 the window. And she one of the things she said was, 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.880 oh my god, it's so sad. And I said, what's 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:15.799 so sad? And she said that that he's moving. Why 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.640 is that actor who's my favorite actor? Were boxes? 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.760 She came back. She was like, it must be really 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:24.400 hard and I. 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:28.320 Said that's my husband. She went, oh my god. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:29.400 Was she mortified? 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.479 Was she immediately was just like, oh my god, we 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:32.400 can cast him, we. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.719 Can cast him. And I said, well, he could be 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.360 you know, t R's father. I was already starting to think, though, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.200 please got cast it. And she was and she and 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.320 in her way, the way she was, the wheels were turning. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.320 You could see it in her face. You all know 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:52.200 that face. Oh yeah, oh yeah, and she was she said, no, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.680 not his father, but a different father, like she already knew, 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.120 and she wouldn't tell me, but she already. It was 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.920 pretty great. It was pretty great. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.320 And that was so early, super early on. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:12.400 Oh that his role is so iconic as Meredith Gray's dad, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.719 iconic iconic role. 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.200 That do you mean that the dad of somebody who 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:19.360 might have been on a medical show. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:25.239 Yeah, that's exact, that's exactly correct on a medical show. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.920 Linda, tell us a little bit, and tell everybody who's list, 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.960 say a little bit. So you are have been for 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.360 years and you are a casting director. What's your story? 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.679 How did you start? How do you how did this happen? 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.400 Yeah, Betsy likes to call it, what's your superhero like 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:42.480 origin story? 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:43.080 Yeah? 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:44.080 Because I I don't. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.000 Did you just wake up one day and know that 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.080 being a casting director is something you could do? 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.200 Because we all start as actors. I always figure like. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.599 Yeah, well I started as an actor, but that isn't 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.800 you know. Look, I think for me it was it 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.320 was a bit of a different journey. I have to say, say, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.440 and Katie, I think I told you this, so I 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.280 hope you're not bored. I think we you and I 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.720 talked about this recently. But besides the fact, you know, 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.160 growing up in New York, growing up in New York 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.360 was a huge boost because if you grew up in 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.400 New York and if your parents went to see the 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.480 theater sometimes they sometimes you got lucky and they took 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.600 you to Broadway, and they took me to you know, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.679 the big Broadway shows. Sound of Music in my time, 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.440 you know Sound of Music and My Fair Lady and 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.680 Oklahoma and Westside Store, you know all those big musicals. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.080 I was never so happy in my life as when 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.600 I was sitting there, and I think for a kid, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.960 it was more than just I love this. I like 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.200 wanted to work there. I wanted to vacuum the carpets. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.960 I wanted to be an usher. I wanted to see 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.280 the show every night for the rest of my life. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.440 I wanted to, you know, run away from home and 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.880 just be like join the circus. I thought about it 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.400 all the time. I had a little record player and 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.920 I used to play the records over and over and 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.440 over and over and over again, the musicals, and I 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.960 just thought that probably I wanted to be an actor. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.120 And I think that's where we get confused, because you 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.760 don't know what the other jobs are, right, You just 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:25.000 don't really know. So I went to the American Academy 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:26.239 of Dramatic Arts. 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.400 I did not know that you went to AMDA. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:36.240 From ninth grade to twelfth grade. I went from just 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.440 on Saturdays, and I took the train to New York 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.200 ause I grew up in Westchester County. Anyway, I did 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.679 really well there, and they invited me into their college program. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.920 And they only invited two of us from all of 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.960 the classes into the college program. So you know, I 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.439 was going to go. So I went home that night 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.520 and I said to my dad and my mom, I said, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.040 you know, this is what's happening. I'm going to stay 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.400 in New York and I'm going to go to the 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.400 American Academy for college. They did not look happy. And 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.240 it's not that they didn't want me to be an actor. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.040 They just said, that's what is that? And I said, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.000 it's a two year pro that was it. They were like, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.080 that's a junior college. No, yeah, that's how they viewed 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.480 the world. It was college, junior college. And I was 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.600 a good student. So my dad and I made a 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.760 deal that i'd apply to one school and if I 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.080 didn't get in, it was pretty a good deal for me. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.439 I thought, just if I didn't get in, I could 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.520 go and Harvard and Yale and some of the sort 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.080 of we used to call them the seven Sister schools. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.240 You know, we're off the list, you know, because not 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.960 the obvious. You're not getting into Harvard, so you can't 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.560 use that. But I knew about a little school called 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.360 Northwestern that we used to call the Harvard of the 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.600 Midwest growing up. They didn't know that, my parents, they 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.720 didn't know anything about it. It was in Chicago, it 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:00.000 was out in the provinces, so to speak. So I said, okay, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.720 and I knew they had a good theater department if 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.720 worse came to worse, you know. So I applied to 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:10.319 Northwestern and I got it. So never today could I 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.160 get into that school, but I got in. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.719 Did you do a lot of plays, Linda, while you 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:16.080 were there? 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:16.839 No place? 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:17.360 Really? 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.680 I got so scared because at north When I got 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:25.720 to Northwestern, you were all kind of mushed together, you know, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.600 for auditions and whatnot into a little theater in the 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.559 heart of Evanston, which was called the Benson Street Theater 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.320 or Cohn Auditorium, and you were auditioning against seniors and 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.520 like stars at Northwestern. And that's when I got a 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.560 taste of rejection. And I thought, oh, I don't like 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.880 hell I don't know hell no, hell no, I don't 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.920 know how you all do it. I just was like, 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.200 this is the most depressing I'm you know, I just 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.760 but I still like the the literature, you know, and 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.280 I love the professors, and I loved like my interp 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.640 class and one of the professors at Northwestern. I graduated early, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.600 and I kept going back to the school to visit, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.160 and I ran into him and can't even remember his 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.720 name right now. And he said, look, Lynda, I've been 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:20.640 thinking about you. There's a course in England, in the 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.320 North of England at Durham University that is starting a 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.840 degree for drama and education and they're accepting applicants and 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.960 it's just starting and they're only going to take a 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.800 few people. And I think you should apply. And I 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.240 know that I know the professor who's running it a 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.680 little bit, and he's worth he's worth it. So what 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.040 did I I just thought, okay, you know, I didn't 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.000 even look at a map. I just thought, oh, Durham, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.320 it's probably near London. I mean it was six hours 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.319 by trying because you'd have to go to the library 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:53.839 to look at him. I had never been out of 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.840 the country except to Canada. On the train going to Durham, 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.959 it seemed like every stop we made we went back 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.560 in time, about fifteen years. I thought, by the time 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.080 we got to Durham, like the women would be wearing 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.280 like little and I thought there was there was. I 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.880 thought there was Queen's English and Cockney. I had no 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:19.560 idea that there were all the other. 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.880 Actual you were raised on. You were waste on my 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:22.439 fir lady. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.760 I mean, what else did you Poppins? Which they're just 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.360 too Yeah, what did I know it's like? 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.959 And so when I get off the train and it's 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.080 a Jordy thing, I thought I was in Scotland and 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.160 I had gotten off at the wrong time. I couldn't 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.040 understand anybody, and it started drizzling, and I walked into 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.679 my classroom and maybe the most beautiful man I had 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.440 ever seen in my life, in my whole life, was 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.120 standing at the head of I thought it was hallucinating. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:52.240 And it's not Jeff Perry. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.959 It's not Jeff Perry. It wasn't Jeff Perry. It wasn't 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:00.680 my first husband either. But it was Sting. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.840 Oh, no one, the only Sting. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.240 The only only He wasn't Sting. Then he was Gordon 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.840 Sumner and he was a teacher in a high school 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:11.640 in Newcastle. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.640 Please tell me, Please tell me there was love. You 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:15.640 guys make out. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.880 And then please take us through you. 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.680 Please tell me there was sweet sweet love. 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.320 Yeah, and then tell us what I was like. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:23.760 Truth. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.160 So the reason I bring that up is because you 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.560 never know how your past is going to intersect with 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.240 your future. And the reason I got my first big 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:38.400 break in casting, which was to do a Michael Apted film. Wow, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.200 every casting director wanted to meet him, every single one 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:43.920 in the world, And I thought, I don't even know 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.920 how I got there. Anyway. I was sitting there and 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.240 I was thinking to. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.600 Myself, how do I make out with Sting? 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.720 Yeah? How come I didn't make out with Sting? That's 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:57.280 what I was thinking about. I was thinking to myself, Well, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.480 wait a minute, he did Bring on the Night. Michael 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.000 Apted directed Bring on the Night, the Sting documentary, so 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.200 I thought, oh, I'll talk to him about Sting. You know, 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.480 I'll tell him what happened. And when I told him 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.120 that story, it was like his chin had to be 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.320 lifted off of the desk. He just said, you know, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.720 when we were doing Bring on the Night, we were 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.040 looking for anybody who knew him in that at that time, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.520 if there was an American that might have known him 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.400 during those years when he had that other band. He said, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.920 this is so incredible, and he and I got along 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:38.440 like wildfire, and I got the job above like I 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:39.560 hadn't cast one thing yet. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:44.040 Wow, Wow, we will be back with more after the break. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.840 My degree never helped me one bit. It was the 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:56.360 place and people, so sting that helped before that. Going 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.640 back now to after graduate school, when I moved back 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.920 to New York and I lived in the West Village, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:03.880 I lived in the East Village. Sorry, I lived on 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.240 Tenth Street. And I go and interview with this company. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.680 They're called TDF and they support Broadway during previews through 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.200 a subscription that they do, and they pretty much support 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.400 completely support off off Broadway, or they did through this 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.080 thing called a voucher program. It's just to give theater 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.880 a boost, and they gave Broadway a boost during previews 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.840 because they sold cheaper tickets to their subscriber based smart right. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.720 Any company that was getting X amount of dollars from 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.520 the federal government at that time that was a not 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:44.640 for profit had to start providing for the differently able. Anyway, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.120 go for my interview, and I made it to like 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.200 the third or fourth, I guess it was the third 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.000 interview where I met that guy who ran the place 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.240 and he was a brit I didn't know that. And 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.440 he's looking at my resume and he said, did you 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.160 actually go to Durham University? And I said, well, you know, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.320 I didn't make it up. And he said, I'm from 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.560 Durham and I've never met an American that's ever spent 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.280 time there. So we talked about Durham the whole time 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.880 and where I lived and my experiences and everything, and 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.840 he hired me off the spot at age twenty three 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.360 to run this program to make Bad Way cut to 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.800 I was interested in doing this, getting sign language interpreters 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.880 in and signing the shows, you know, once a month. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.760 We figured we would figure it out. The Schuberts and 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.520 the Nederlanders wouldn't let us do that because of union rules. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.040 They were being so still. It was like we're unionized 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.360 down to the floor tax and you can't do that 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.000 or we'll get sued. And we're like, well what do 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.440 you That doesn't anyway. They just didn't want to do it. 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.360 They thought it would be I didn't want to do 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.800 a night for the deaf, and I knew so they 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.000 could look through the sign language interpreters onto the stage. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.320 We'd have a special play bill. It would be an 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.960 integrated event. And they said you can't start at Broadway. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.120 You need to start off off Broadway and I was like, okay, Well, 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.000 if you're a deaf person and you're taking the bus, 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.919 to work like every person in the city. And you 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.120 see marquees for you know, a chorus line. You want 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.800 to go see a chorus line. You do not want 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:29.000 to go see kabuki media down in the east, you know. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:30.439 Yep. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:31.439 And it was and I was. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.120 Naked, which Katie was doing in a black box theater 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.320 when she started. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.879 She was naked and she was reroly running glass. 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.840 Yeah anyway, that's hard period. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.840 No, yeah, no, I want to see the show like 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.520 this is ridiculous. 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:43.840 People. 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.199 Yeah, yes, it was ridiculous. So for two So for 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.479 two years or a year and a half, while that 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.240 was a fight between my boss and the supert Anitalanders, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.040 I went around all the boroughs and got a mailing list, 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.000 like a huge mailing list of deaf people interested. And 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.680 Phyllis Freelich was you know, around then, and there were 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.600 people that were helping me. And but in the meantime, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.040 I did a wheelchair access. I did tickets if you 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.480 were visually impaired. I became like a little box office, 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.400 and so people could come to me and I could 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.800 get your seats up front. I could get your seats 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.439 a nile seat. I could get you what you needed 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.639 because I became friends with all the box office treasurers. 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.640 Here was I twenty three, running around God, my friends 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.119 with all the box office treasurers. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:33.880 So Great lod. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.119 Hold, Children of a Lesser God comes to Broadway and 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.400 wins two. And at that point the Schubert's called Hugh 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:46.040 Southern my boss. And they said, that little persnickety sassy 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.879 gal you got back there. Tell her she can do 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:49.680 whatever she wants. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:50.560 No way. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.560 So we started and I hired the I had the 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.080 ability to hire a few of the actors from the 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.399 National Theater of the Deaf to be like my board, 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.120 you know, to be like my to make sure that 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.840 the signing, that the signage of the interpreters was correct, 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.520 and to just to just lend a hand, so to speak. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.720 And so what happened was I started casting, and I 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.280 didn't know I was casting because I wanted the sign 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.040 language interpreters, and there's a lot of them in New York, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.200 to look like the shows. So if we were doing 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.400 chorus line, I wanted them to look like dancers. If 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.760 we were doing you know, best Little Whorehouse in Texas, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.760 I didn't want them to look like I wanted them 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:38.720 to look like something else. And so that's that's that 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.439 isn't so, you know, incredible. So I didn't really know 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.440 I was casting though until I came to Hollywood. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:45.240 That's amazing. 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.879 We keep start hearing this. That's what's interesting because I 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.320 think certainly I can relate to a lot of what 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.800 you're talking about. Is I always say when people ask them, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.119 like every single thing you do will lead you to 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.000 what ends up bringing you joy or you feel success 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.639 full or confident doing every single job you do, every 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.560 single thing you study. I mean, the fact that you've 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.160 just pointed out that the location you were in, which 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:15.240 was in Stick City, England, that I mean, then the 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.160 stink connection, the fact that you had the experience you had, 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.879 all of that added to a job and it's like 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.160 it's like spirits were going like, this is your job, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.439 but you don't know it yet. You're just gonna build it. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.680 But there's a job. And that's one of the things 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.159 we keep saying in this podcast is listen, like what 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:39.639 you did. That's amazing story because you've absolutely encapsulated what 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:45.800 I would call an incredibly inspiring but successful path of 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.560 accepting what comes in your lap. It's like, for me, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.439 I gave up acting because I needed to make money, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.800 and I read scripts and it turned out I was 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.919 really good with scripts and material. All of a sudden 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:58.600 there was a job. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.480 At that point, I thought maybe I was going to 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.439 turn into Betsy. Do you remember the producing team in 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.440 New York for theater Now Nation and Len McCann. Yeah, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.480 I thought I was going to be them with a 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.879 different person, you know, like I'd have a partner and 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.560