1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: We have to have this debate in conference about whether 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: we should be in places like Afghanis death. This tell 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: that has changed. We've got a hold of accountable book. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: See how they governed. Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Perspective from DC's Top Names. Infrastructural bill or create jobs 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: that we desperately need in this country, good paying jobs. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: We need to go all out to a green, renewable 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: economy and all of the infrastructure to make that happen. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Live 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: from Washington, where the President has addressed the American people 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: about ending the war in Afghanistan twenty years later, the 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: evolving threats against the US and the role we will 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: play in helping Americans and our Afghan allies get out 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: of Afghanistan still even though the military has left. Coming up, 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: will talk about this historic moment with retired Air Force 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: General David Deptula, who orchestrated air operations over Afghanistan during 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: Operation Enduring Freedom. And we'll review the President's address you 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: heard live on Bloomberg Radio with our politics contributors Jeanie 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: she and Zano and Rick Davis, and welcome to the 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: Tuesday edition of Bloomberg Sound. On last night in Ka, 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: the United States ended twenty years of war in Afghanistan, 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: the longest war in American history. President Biden, speaking from 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: the White House a short time ago address you heard 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: live on Bloomberg Radio, as he framed our withdrawal, the 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: US withdrawal as a global change in direction for the 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: United States military. This decision about Afghanistan, It's not just 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: about Afghanistan. It's about ending an era of major military 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: operations to remake other countries. The President saying that terr 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: threat has metastasized to other countries and made the case 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: that there's no advantage to the US having boots on 32 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: the ground any longer in Afghanistan, joining us for his 33 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: reaction and a way in on the administration's view of 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: over the horizon this approach to fighting terrorism is retired 35 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: Air Force General David Deptula, who orchestrated, as I said, 36 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: the air operations over Afghanistan and Operation Enduring Freedom. A 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: long time fighter pilot turned general. It's great to have 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: you back. General. I wonder if you could start off 39 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: with your thoughts as you see the last aircraft go 40 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: wheels up from Cobble in that very same theater that 41 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: you began the air war over so many years ago. Yeah, well, Joe, 42 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: thank you very much for having me on again. Um uh, 43 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: there's so much that's going on. And in direct response 44 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: to your question, I really have mixed emotions at two 45 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: separate levels. First, um, from a strategic perspective, i'd tell 46 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: you it's about time. It's about nineteen years too late, 47 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: because we met our critical U s national security interests 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: by the end of December two thousand one. There were 49 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: really three the removal of the Taliban from power and governance, 50 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: assisting the new government, protecting the Afghan people as well 51 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: as our interests, and then the third one being eliminating 52 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: the Alkada terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. And thanks to 53 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: the measured application of air power in conjunction with a 54 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: light footprint of special operations for forces both partnering with 55 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: the Afghan Northern Alliance, we accomplished those objectives in three 56 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: short months. The trillion dollar question is literally what why 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: did the US not declare victory? Then? In there we 58 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: should have said we're out of here. See you later. 59 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Have a nice life, but if you do it again, 60 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: we'll be back instead. The US led coalition poured hundreds 61 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: of thousands of ground forces into Afghanistan over the next 62 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: two decades, after we'd accomplished our vital security objectives. So 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: what I'd tell you is neutering al Qaeda and eliminating 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: Afghanistan as an Alcada sanctuary were critical US security objectives, 65 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: but attempting to turn Afghanistan into a modern Jeffersonian democracy 66 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: was not. So. When we shifted from a strategy of 67 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: counter terrorism to one of counterinsurgency, we shifted from a 68 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: set of strategic objectives that were vital to the US 69 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: to a set of objectives that were not. Now, you know, 70 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: kind of wrapping up my thought here, this mission creep 71 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: will not be easy to admit, but it's really necessary 72 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: to recognize if we're to avoid similar outcomes in the future, 73 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: and it alter the failure of the ground centric nation 74 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: build via land occupation strategy. It was embraced by US 75 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: Central Command and by a US Joint Staff that was 76 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: dominated by land warfare officers who didn't learn the lessons 77 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: of the Vietnam So it's well past time that we 78 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: abandoned that failed strategy. The four presidents share the blame 79 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: for that mission creep. General, And what do you make 80 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: of that line we just heard from President Biden. I 81 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: suspect we're going to hear that again, ending the era 82 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: of major military operations to remake other countries. Isn't that 83 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: what you're saying? Yeah, and the exactly, um so on 84 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: that part, we agree. Now that that that my second 85 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: but but let me directly answer your question. Um Uh, 86 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: that's true. We should not have embarked on a strategy 87 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: of trying to win hearts and minds and turn Afghanistan 88 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: into a democracy in our own image. Um. First, that's 89 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: not the military subjective, much less the United States objective. 90 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: We have critical objectives. And in that regard, he's right. 91 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: We should have left after we accomplished our critical objectives. 92 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: And that was back at the end of two thousand one. Now, 93 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: you know, one can parse words, but I would tell you, 94 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, the war on terrorism isn't over. The President 95 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: didn't end the war on terrorism, he just changed the 96 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: character of it. Um And and so we're going to 97 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: continue to engage around the world because terrorism has the 98 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: potential of being a direct U S national security threat. 99 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: Uh so those operations are continued. I'm a little dismayed 100 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: at hearing this that the newest army euphemism for air 101 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: power of over the horizon. That's called air power, you know. 102 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: And we're going to continue with the smart use of 103 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: air power like we saw of the past couple of 104 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: days using the m Q nine Reaper drone attacks against 105 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: key terrorist elements used. And we're going to go back 106 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: to the equation that works so well in the opening 107 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: months of Enduring Freedom. We're gonna use air power in 108 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: conjunction with small elements of special ops forces to control 109 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: the terrorist threat threats to the United States. He used 110 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: to fly fighter jets. General, you have a good sense 111 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: of what this over the horizon capability would be. This 112 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: chasing terror around the world, it's gonna be guys like 113 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: you who who fly fighter jets, is going to be 114 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: people who fly drones from the other side of the world. 115 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: I presume. Is this a realistic approach, however, to not 116 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: having boots on the ground and intelligence on the ground, Well, Joe, listen, 117 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: it's absolutely realistic because guess what, we've been doing this 118 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: for decades now with little fanfare in other parts of 119 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: the world. And what's ended is continuous US groundforce presence. Uh. 120 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: And I mentioned right up front, and that was long overdue. UM. 121 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: So oh yeah, you're it's absolutely uh feasible. UH. And 122 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: we do it. I mean, and this is one of 123 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: the advantages of air power. UM. You know, long range 124 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: aircraft like bombers that can sustain operations for hours at 125 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: thousands of miles away from their launching location, to engage 126 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: with precision and lethality. Um. You mentioned folks on the ground, Well, 127 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: they are useful for providing intelligent surveillance and reconnaissance. But 128 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: so we're overhead assets. I like to remind folks when 129 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: they bring up this subject. Um. You know, I was 130 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: the planner for the entire forty three days of Operation 131 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: Desert Storm. We didn't have one boot on the ground 132 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: in Iraq. Uh. And we accomplished our objectives in forty 133 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: three days without any US boots on the ground providing 134 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: in for nation. So that was our last major regional conflict. UH. 135 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: And we didn't have a lot of direct information flowing 136 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: out of that uh combat zone. I am reminded of 137 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: President George H. W. Bush at the time criticized heavily 138 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: for not plowing all the way into Baghdad, for not 139 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: taking out Saddam Hussein. Is the lesson from that? Of 140 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: course we went back into Iraq, But is the lesson 141 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: from this engagement? I think to your initial point that 142 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: we simply stayed too long. Should we have done the 143 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: same in Afghanistan? Yeah, no, we should have left. Um. Look, 144 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people go, okay, look, you're you're using 145 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: hindsight from twenty years later in in Perhaps Yeah, in 146 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: late two thousand one, early two thousand two, it may 147 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: have been too soon to recognize that we'd accomplished our objectives. Um, 148 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: but not six months later. Uh, you by the end 149 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: of two thousand two, if it should have become quite clear. 150 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: But the problem, Joe is, we have some dogmatic principles 151 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: that have been established in our Department of Defense. We 152 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: accomplished the subjectives so quick in Afghanistan in late two 153 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: thousand one that Central Command hadn't even completed the deployment 154 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: planning of the troops that they presumed were required to 155 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: go in and occupy the country in order to our 156 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: accomplish our objectives. So they just kept on deploying them 157 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: and then when they got there, they looked around and said, well, 158 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: now what do we do? And and that's where they 159 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: adopted this new mission of winning hearts and minds. And 160 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: that's the mission Creep that we embarked upon. Uh and 161 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: unfortunately it was supported by military leaders in the Pentagon 162 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: and for presidents for two decades. The lesson there is 163 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: define critical US interest figure out how to accomplish them, 164 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: and whether they're accomplished, leave okay, and in Idelita. This 165 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: mission creed in moving from those critical objectives of US 166 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: security interests into trying to build a democracy amongst a 167 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: group of sixth century tribes who have lived this way 168 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: for centuries, was was unobtained um insights from someone who 169 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: has been there. Retired Air Force General David Deptola, former 170 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: director of the Combined Air Operations Center for Operation Enduring Freedom. 171 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: We do thank you for coming back to talk to 172 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: us again today on Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg 173 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: You Sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It's 174 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: the last day of August, the deadline for the American 175 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: military to leave Afghanistan, which it has done, leaving the 176 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: Commander in chief today to tell the American people why 177 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: there was time to be honest with the American people. 178 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: Are you we no longer had a clear purpose in 179 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: an open end admission in Afghanistan after twenty years of 180 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan. I refuse to send another generation America's 181 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: sons and daughters to fight a war it should have 182 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: ended long ago. I want to hear from the panel 183 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: on this. Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she in Zano and 184 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: Rick Davis back with us. It has been a full 185 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: day of analysis from you two, and I thank you 186 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: for it. So let's take our last swing here this hour. 187 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: We've talked about the strategies and the political liabilities for 188 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: this White House. I want to ask you both about 189 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: the speech. Genie, you are very skeptical going into this address. 190 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: How did he do? My impression was he reminded me 191 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: something of a litigator who was going after each point 192 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: of criticism and batting it. And I think in doing 193 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: that he did make some important points. Um it was 194 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: the most comprehensive I think we've heard him in his 195 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: remarks defending his decisions here, but he also faced some challenges, 196 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: and just to give you one example is this criticism 197 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: of of the Trump administration um and this deal they struck, 198 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: and saying that that had sort of hemmed the administration, 199 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: the Biden administration in to either having to stay and 200 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: increase the number of troops or to leave. Well, those 201 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: aren't the only two options there, and that's something that 202 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about. So I think he did, 203 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, try as hard as possible to defend what 204 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: he was doing, but I think in doing that, he 205 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: was not able to address the damage that has been 206 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: left as a result of that. And I would also say, 207 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: and this is something that I was surprised about, he 208 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: was once again not nearly as empathy empathetic to the 209 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: frustrate amongst the military, the Afghanis allies, and others who 210 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: feel that they were wronged by what has happened over there. 211 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: Not that it's Joe Biden's fault specifically, but the United 212 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: States going in in the first place, and all of 213 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: the that's happened in the last few decades. So that 214 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: those are a few of my takeaways. A lot of 215 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: the questions Rick Davis about the president's tone today. Very 216 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: different posture and very different tone, different body language than 217 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: we saw and heard in his address to the nation 218 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: last week. In fact, it came up today at the briefing. 219 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: Here's how it went with Press Secretary Jen Saki. A 220 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: few of us observed he seemed angry at the beginning 221 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: of the speech today, Who's he mad at? I would say, 222 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: I'll I'll give you a different assessment of what I saw, 223 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: which is that he gave a forceful assessment, laid out 224 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: a forceful case to the American people as to why 225 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: it was time to wind down a twenty year war. 226 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: That O'Keefe asking who's he mad at Rick Davis? Is 227 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: that a problem when that's the question coming out of 228 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: a speech like that? And did you see it that way? Yeah? 229 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: I think I'm glad you raised this, Joe, because I 230 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: think the overwriting message that people got was that he 231 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: was angry. The tone on these kinds of speeches matter 232 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: incredibly high and importance and and and and and whether 233 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: you call it emphatic or angry, I mean it was 234 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: a driving tone he was. He was defensive in his posture, 235 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: as Genie said, he'd tried to defend virtually every action 236 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: he took along the last seventeen days, almost as if 237 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: the critics were in his ear while he was giving 238 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: a speech. Um, you know, it's it's kind of difficult 239 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: to stomach because this, this entire episode has been on 240 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: his watch. Um, you know it was it was a 241 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: month ago that we pulled out a bogram. I mean 242 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: you could see the build up of a calamity and 243 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: and and yes, um, he was right to point out 244 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: the heroism of our military who went in there with 245 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: our civilians and and and dug out as best they could, 246 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: a historic um abandonment of that of that country and 247 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: pulling our people out, And and his commitment to ensure 248 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: that those who are left behind will will We'll have 249 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: a high priority in and getting out if they want 250 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: to get out. So he touched on a few of 251 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: the things that are I think really political problems for him, 252 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: because you know, when you look at the polling data, 253 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: you know when the one thing everyone agreed on Democrats, 254 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: independence and Republicans alike by over was that we had 255 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: to stay until we got everybody out. And that's the 256 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: one thing that he's gonna, I think, from a political perspective, 257 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: be nagged by because in essence, he said the deadline 258 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: was more important than the function and that's where our 259 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: interests and our values separate. It's the stuff of political ads, 260 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: negative political ads. Genie. But I have to ask you, 261 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: because we're all family here now right. You're the Democrat 262 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: on this panel, Genie, can you say that Joe Biden 263 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: has done anything right in this very painful process over 264 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: the past two weeks. I do think that he has 265 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: a valid argument to make, more than valid argument to make. 266 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: Rick was just talking about the polls most Americans see 267 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: and he said this today that we maybe should not 268 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: be in these would have been described, I don't think 269 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: accurately as endless wars, and there is a strong argument 270 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: to be made that we have challenges. And I think 271 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: one of the things Biden wanted to do today was 272 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: sort of to lay out this Biden view of doctrine, 273 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: if you will, of foreign policy. He wants to get 274 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: to this bigger argument that he wants to make, which 275 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: is that we are in the fight of our lives 276 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: between democracy and totalitarianism, and we have to play the 277 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: game in one far differently than we played it twenty 278 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: years ago. I think that's a valid argument to make. 279 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: He does have some good, important things to say, but 280 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: the execution is something you can't describe as extraordinary. Understood 281 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: if we had left earlier. That's the other criticism that 282 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: President Biden has been hearing specifically about the withdrawal. Why 283 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: didn't we start getting Americans and our Afghan allies out 284 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: months earlier. Imagine if we've begun evacuations in June or July, 285 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: bringing in thousands of American troops and evacuating more than 286 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty thousand people in the middle of 287 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: a civil war, there still would have been a rush 288 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: to the airport, a breakdown and confidence and control of 289 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the government, and it still would have been very difficult 290 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: and dangerous mission. The bottom line is, there is no 291 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: evacuation evacuation from the end of a war that you 292 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: can run without the kinds of complexities, challenges, threats we 293 00:18:54,400 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: faced none. President Biden did not take questions following the 294 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: address as I read on the terminal. Republicans have said 295 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: that the president should have extended the deadline, the August 296 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: thirty one deadline to withdraw until every American was removed 297 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: from the country. To be clear, about two hundred Americans 298 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: are still there. According to the State Department. Two Americans, 299 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: many of whom, as they say, did not want to 300 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: go home. But to be clear, they had reasons like family. 301 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: Many were dual citizens. Many are dual citizens. Many had family. 302 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: They wanted to get out of the country, but couldn't 303 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: put them all on the planes, couldn't take them all 304 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: to the airport in Cobble, and so no, they didn't 305 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: want to leave their families behind. They stayed. I think 306 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: we've reconnected with Tony Capacco Bloomberg Pentagon correspondent, Tonya go 307 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: back to where we started here. Is it fair to 308 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: frame this as a simple choice between in leaving and escalating? 309 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: Is that what this came down to. The tens of 310 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: thousands he was talking about was just an exaggeration. Joe, 311 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: we had thirty troops there. He had like eight thousands 312 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: there last year. I don't think that was the case. 313 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: He could have made the case that we needed to 314 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: keep troops there indefinitely, like we have had in Korea 315 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: and Germany and other places for decades, in order to 316 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: prevent a calamitous collapse of that regime. He chose not 317 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: to do that, and one could understand it, but I 318 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: don't think it was traced between pulling out and bringing 319 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: in tens of thousands. Is it true then as well? 320 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: What he said, I don't know if you heard that 321 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: line Tony, that if we had started earlier, the same 322 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: thing would have happened. That there still would have been 323 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: the chaos in dealing with evacuating thousands of people in 324 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: the midst of what he called a civil war. That 325 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: the cast could happened because the Taliban blitz creep through 326 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: Afghana stand and into colboth faster than anybody had anticipated. 327 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: Are billions of dollars of intelligence apparatus didn't predict that. 328 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: That's what precipitated it. It probably would have happened in 329 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: April or May or June or July. Yeah, there would 330 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: have been some chaos. And because the Caliban was on 331 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: the run, I was on the march. They owned the country. 332 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: Once the United States started pulling out and they were 333 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 1: into the capitol, just people swarmed into the airfield, swarmed 334 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: into the airport there. Yeah, I want to ask you 335 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: about over the horizon. We've certainly gotten used to this 336 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: phrase over the past couple of days. I asked General 337 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: David Deptula about it at the beginning of the hour. 338 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: The point he made is this is nothing new. We've 339 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: been doing this for years actually, and we know it works, 340 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah, it works to a degree. Now. 341 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: They've had some great success killing individuals like Jahi John 342 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: remember him. They killed him in a drone strike while 343 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: he was moving in the car. They killed General Solomoni 344 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: after they watched him for quite a number of minutes, 345 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: leaving Bagdad internationally. So there has been successes, but it 346 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: needs an exquisite amount of intelligence and usually needs men 347 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: on the ground, of people on the ground giving you 348 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: some information. But it seems like in this case, over 349 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: the last few days, our intelligence community was able to 350 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: help basically target the drones and we do have the capability, 351 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: but it's iffy. Ten or twelve civilians may have been 352 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: killed in this last drone that strikes a couple of 353 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: days ago. That's the collateral damage over the horizon. Mhm. Well, 354 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: apparently we are going to be practicing this quite a 355 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: bit going forward here in Tonio. I want to thank 356 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: you for your reporting over the past couple of days 357 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: and being with us on Bloomberg Sound on our Pentagon 358 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,239 Speaker 1: corresponding Tony Capacco, you're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 359 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio and the second Day 360 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: Lead as we call it in the News Business. President 361 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: Biden's book ends of what happened yesterday in Afghanas stand 362 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: the final proofs, leaving with an image Major General Chris 363 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: Donna Hue climbing on to the last c seventeen out 364 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: of cobble. Justin Sink White House, correspondent for Bloomberg writes 365 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: on the terminal, President Biden declared an end to two 366 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: decades of US military operations in Afghanistan, offering an impassioned 367 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: defense of his withdrawal and rejecting criticism that it was misshandled. 368 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: President Biden making the point, but this is not the 369 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: same world we were living in on nine eleven. It 370 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: was time to end this war. This is a new world. 371 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: The terror threat has metastasized across the world, well beyond Afghanistan. 372 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: We face threats from El Shabab in Somalia, al Qaeda 373 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: affiliates in Syria and the Arabian Peninsula, an isis attempt 374 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: to create a caf in Syria and Iraq and establishing 375 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,239 Speaker 1: affiliates across African Asia. We bring back the panel, Rick 376 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: and Genie or with this Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she 377 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: and Zano and Rick Davis. Rick, is that world that 378 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: the President described require boots on the ground anywhere or 379 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: we're just gonna fly around the globe and take care 380 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: of this stuff? Yeah, I mean I thought he was 381 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: making a case for keeping troops in Afghanistan. I mean, like, 382 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: nowhere have we seen more activity of late that in 383 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: UH with terrorist organizations than what's happening the last week 384 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: in in Afghanistan. So, I mean he described places like 385 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: Syria and ISIS terrorists there, but we have troops in 386 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: Iraq to help protect that country from exactly that threat. 387 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think the case he laid out 388 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: was actually a case to stay in places like Afghanistan 389 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: to ensure that we have the intelligence and that we 390 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: have the capacity to strike. And Uh, I don't know. 391 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I thought his whole speech was full of 392 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: these binary choices that he set up that actually, as 393 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: as Tony mentioned in the last interview from the Defense Department, 394 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: actually don't represent reality. How do you operate in that 395 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: new world the President described, Jennie or is it new? Well, 396 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: what they're saying they're gonna do is the the we 397 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: are going to shift and we are going to be 398 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: defending ourselves from terrorism with this over the horizon methodology 399 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: that you've been talking about the problem for the Biden 400 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: administration is the same one the Obama administration got into, 401 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, And and Tony just mentioned this, potentially ten 402 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: to twelve civilians hit very hard to do that kind 403 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: of work without boots and intelligence on the ground. So 404 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: what's really happened is we have shifted this too back 405 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: to the intelligence the CIA where it was right after 406 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: nine eleven before the military went in, and so so 407 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: much of our capacity is going to be focused on that, 408 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: and the question about how good our intelligence is is 409 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: a real challenge. And you know, the President also made 410 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: the case we went in there to ensure that we 411 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: couldn't be attacked again from Afghanistan. But there is a 412 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: case to be made that we are more vulnerable now 413 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: as terrorism, you know, rears its ugly head. As Rick 414 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: was just talking about, we've seen it in the last 415 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: couple of weeks that we could potentially be more vulnerable 416 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: And if something happens, do we get dragged back in 417 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: there or do we just start attacking this country that 418 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: we've left after twenty years with drones. It's a very 419 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: very tough decision for any president, and it's going to 420 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: be that. Hopefully it's not, but if it happens, it's 421 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: going to be that for the Biden administration. Republican leadership 422 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: in the House held a news conference today, Rick and Jennie, 423 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: We know that Kevin McCarthy UH is a huge critic 424 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: of President Biden and a huge critic of what's going 425 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: on here. He was urging Nancy Pelosi to call members 426 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: back to vote on our Republican sponsored bill that would 427 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: require the military to stay until all Americans were out. 428 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: We heard as well today though from Michael McCall how 429 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: US Foreign Affairs Committee ranking member, who referred to our 430 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: unconditional surrender. I never thought I would see this in 431 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: my life. It's embarrassing, it's shameful, it's wrong to our 432 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: veterans who served so well. A statement by his office 433 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: says that more than five hundred journalists and their families 434 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: who were employed by the US Agency for Global Media 435 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: were abandoned by the State Department in Afghanistan unconditional surrender. 436 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, is that fair? Yeah, And I think that 437 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: it would have been interesting if he had actually included 438 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: a guy who signed the surrender Donald Trump with the 439 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: Taliban when he cut a deal that really was the 440 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: beginning of the end of this UH, this war in Afghanistan. 441 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: And and so, I don't know. I mean, I think 442 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: it was a lot of politics. There's no question that, um, 443 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, we've we've turned tail and run from a 444 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: country that we had enormous investment in and UH and 445 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: and so I think you got to see through the 446 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: fog of politics now creeping into what has been a 447 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: very important public policy debate. And and I would have 448 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: been I would have felt better if he would have 449 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: actually said that our values or the guiding principle for 450 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: why we needed to be in Afghanistan and not had 451 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: politicizes so much little peek into the hearings we might 452 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: be seeing. I'm guessing here with the comments from McCarthy 453 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: and McCall and others, including Mike Gallagher, who wrote the 454 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: bill they were talking about here, Jeannie, do you think 455 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: that he'd be saying that if Donald Trump had pulled 456 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: out our forces. No, I don't And that's part of 457 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: the problem. I'm looking right now at a press relief 458 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: release from a call in February in which he's applauding 459 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 1: and praising Donald Trump and Mike Pompeo for reaching an 460 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: agreement with the Taliban. And to Rick's point, you know, 461 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: we don't get where we are today if they had 462 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: not been negotiating with the Taliban. Now that is not 463 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: to say that Trump owns this any more than Biden does. 464 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean, the mistakes of this war go back right 465 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: to the very beginning. And you know, the lessons learned 466 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: report is a is a fascinating place to look at. 467 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: Some of that, including something you just talked about with 468 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: the General that you had on earlier. Not only didn't 469 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: we have clear strategy and objectives, we didn't understand and 470 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: still don't Afghanistan. And those are the kinds of lessons 471 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: that we have to learn. So, you know, when I 472 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: hear McCall and others, um, I too, like Rick, wish 473 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: they would be more intellectually honest on both sides of this. 474 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: It is no more a Biden problem than it is 475 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: a Trump problem or a Bush problem. Quite frankly, an 476 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: American problem, as we have gotten ourselves engaged in areas 477 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: and places and people that we don't understand isn't this 478 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: exactly why people don't like or at least misunderstand Washington. Rick, Yeah, 479 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the reasons why tonight, 480 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: when people are watching the evening news and they see 481 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: these kinds of reports, you know, they flick around to 482 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: the weather channel to see what's going on with Ida. 483 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just you know, these are the these 484 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: are the moments where we should rise above political partisanship 485 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: and look at what's best for our country. And yet 486 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: time and time again, Uh, everyone's trying to score political 487 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: points on the heels of the president's speech today. Sure 488 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: there should be congressional investigations into what went wrong. We 489 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: should learn something from this. Uh, there's a lot to 490 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: be understood and reflect upon, including what the Joe Biden's 491 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: administration agreed to do already back in March, which was 492 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: to reevaluate our entire strategy around uh, the use of 493 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: drones and commandos and combating terror, uh, something he criticized 494 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: the Trump administration for doing. But now we're here today 495 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: is everybody's hot new topic um over the horizon. So um, 496 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: I think we need to learn those lessons so that 497 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: we don't make the mistakes of the past. You talk 498 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: about invoking our values. One thing he did invoke was 499 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: the costs of the war, after more than two trillion 500 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: dollars spend in Afghanistan, cost the researchers a Brown University 501 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: estimated would be over three hundred million dollars a day 502 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: for twenty years in Afghanistan for two decades. Yes, the 503 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: American people should here this three hundred million dollars a 504 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: day for two decades. Shocking number, Genie, but too soon. 505 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: It is a shocking number. And yet I think back, 506 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: as we look back at other areas that we've gone into, 507 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: the Iraq War and others, a lot of times those 508 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: sort of top line numbers don't take into account the 509 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: fact that we then send our people in our businesses 510 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: and corporations and we get money back that we have spent. 511 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: We rebuild infrastructure in these places, We trade, we do 512 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: other things. So you know, I think we have to 513 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: be very careful to look, as you said, too soon, 514 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: at a top line number like that and not see 515 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: what we've actually gotten back in as an American economy 516 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: in return, and that includes trading arms and other things. 517 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: So I think he's trying to defend himself and why 518 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: he thinks we need to get out. But I'm not 519 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: sure that that number is uh, you know, intellectually honest 520 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: if you look deeper into those numbers, when we have 521 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: a chance to do that, even if it's half that though, 522 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: Rick is should money be part of the rationale when 523 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about life and death? Now? And this is 524 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: this is what John mcaine used to say all the time. 525 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: You know, our national interests are our values, and our 526 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: values are our national interests. Can you really put a 527 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: price tag on all the women and girls who weren't 528 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: slaughtered by the Taliban once we took them out of power? 529 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Can we put a price tag on all the countries 530 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: that didn't have to deal with al Kaeda terrorism when 531 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: we dismantled its network? Um? Uh, you know, I'm sorry. 532 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the one thing that we have 533 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: always done as a country is that we have gone 534 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: into uh free people, to create liberty, to create opportunity 535 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: without payback, uh. And and we did it because it 536 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: was the right thing to do, because our values demanded 537 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: us to do it. And somehow all of that has 538 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: been lost in the discussion that we're having today. Great 539 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: day with both of you. Thank you, both for your insights. 540 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: Jini she Inzano, Rick Davis with us for hours upon hours, 541 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: and we're going to be back tomorrow for more. But 542 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: what's the third day lead? Is it infrastructure? Are we 543 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: back to the hurricane and Louisiana. We'll find out together tomorrow. 544 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: Join me and Anne Marie Hordern on Balance of Power 545 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: starting twelve noon on Bloomberg TV and Radio. We'll do 546 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: this all over again Bloomberg Sound on the fastest hour 547 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg