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Speaker 1: Look man, oh I see you? Why why? And look

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Speaker 1: over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness dust cultures

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Speaker 1: is calling and really good moods because you know what,

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Speaker 1: it's the weather. It's the weather on both coasts at

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Speaker 1: the moment. We're recording this on Sunday, the twenty sixth

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Speaker 1: of March. Yeah, and it's nice in New York, it's

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Speaker 1: nice in La. I don't know what it's like in

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Speaker 1: our guests city. Right now, we'll have him China. How

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Speaker 1: are things in Glouckama? Glauckama? Do you understand what that

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Speaker 1: is a reference to? Oh no, I don't. I hate

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Speaker 1: it when this happens. It's from the Broadway musical Finnian's Rainbow,

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Speaker 1: and there's a song called how are things in Glaucama? Now?

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Speaker 1: Why would you say that? Well, just because it's sort

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Speaker 1: of now, why would you say that? Uh not? Now,

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Speaker 1: why would you say that? I don't know. I was

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Speaker 1: having fun. I'm sorry, I said were. I said we

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Speaker 1: were in good moods and sort of pattering the ball

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Speaker 1: back and forth, you know, like you do with balls.

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Speaker 1: And I sort of just sent to goat something and

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Speaker 1: you sort of shamed me. Queen. No, Queen, I didn't

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Speaker 1: mean to you know. I was thinking of you this morning.

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Speaker 1: I woke up. I want were I miss my friend

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Speaker 1: Matt Roger. You said that to yourself. I said that

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Speaker 1: out loud to no one. Oh. You sort of sent

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Speaker 1: me a photo last nighte of you and the girls

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Speaker 1: at iconic New York party event course Meat Disco, and

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Speaker 1: I was a little bit jealous, but not super jealous

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Speaker 1: because I am avoiding those spaces because I have a

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Speaker 1: new rule right now, which is no new gay men.

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Speaker 1: I don't trust them. I don't want to talk to them.

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Speaker 1: If you have to introduce yourself to me, keep it moving.

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Speaker 1: But I'm happy that you wanted to go to that event.

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Speaker 1: I needed to because I was so hermetic in London

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Speaker 1: for two weeks. I was like losing my mind. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I gotta go out totally. I have to

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Speaker 1: like release this and guess what it worked? Did you twirl?

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Speaker 1: We twirled and guess what we did. We went to

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Speaker 1: like the side room where it was like the energy

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Speaker 1: was not quite dark room, but it was like much hornier,

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Speaker 1: but it was it was the Hens. It was me, Josh,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Patrick Rogers, Matt Whittaker. We all went to this

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Speaker 1: back room and we just screamed at and it clucked

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Speaker 1: in a full conversation, and then the bit was dark

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Speaker 1: room more like red table talk that we were chatting,

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Speaker 1: we were healing, and that doesn't happen. And who says

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Speaker 1: that the dark room can't become the red table? And

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Speaker 1: that's a royal culture number forty eight? Who says the

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Speaker 1: dark room can't become the red table? Sometimes all the

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Speaker 1: girls in the dark room, they need the red table

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Speaker 1: the most, Like we need to really come to the

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Speaker 1: red table sometimes when we're in the dark room. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and horse me disco more like chicken feed dance off

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Speaker 1: period period. Oh my god, Wow, I'm so happy. The

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Speaker 1: energy is so good. Maybe it's the weather. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: know what we just said before we got on here,

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Speaker 1: Chatty Nicholas was right, let's go to the beach. Did

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Speaker 1: Jenny Nicolas say let's go to the beach? No, but

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Speaker 1: she did say that things were turning around and we

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Speaker 1: need to get channing on the pod. I feel one

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Speaker 1: thousand percent. Oh, I was just meditating to her like

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Speaker 1: ten minutes ago, okay, that this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a huge moment for the pod going for when we

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Speaker 1: do have Channing as a guest. But I will say

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Speaker 1: so there was that iconic week a couple weeks ago

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Speaker 1: where she said, guys, this is not the week. Everyone

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Speaker 1: stop what you're doing. Stop. And it really was a

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Speaker 1: truly awful week. And then the next week I was

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Speaker 1: still feeling in the duldrums, really really bad. Yet Channing

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Speaker 1: came on and she was like, I know, but you

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Speaker 1: have to use today because I believe it was the equinox.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, you have to use today to

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Speaker 1: put projects in motion and set your intention and put

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Speaker 1: energy into things that you want to like see through.

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Speaker 1: And I did that, and things are happening. Things are happening.

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Speaker 1: And our guests in his book The Best Strangers in

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Speaker 1: the World says he doesn't believe in any of this bullshit,

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Speaker 1: which I was him once. So was I on the

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Speaker 1: record on this podcast. I was like, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: this stuff. I've read too many Carl Seagan books to

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Speaker 1: buy into this same listen. Channy is someone if any

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Speaker 1: readers Katie's publicists out there are on that level, Channy

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Speaker 1: is someone who like puts it in very understandable, approachable terms.

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Speaker 1: It's not even two I would say, like misstick. It's

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Speaker 1: just very like straightforward and it's usually just about like

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Speaker 1: reflecting and writing down your intentions, like pretty like full

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Speaker 1: stop healthy things. Yes, you described it to me as

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Speaker 1: she's a scientist. And when you said to me she's

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Speaker 1: a scientist, I said, well, I'm on board. There you go.

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Speaker 1: I would challenge anyone, including our guests, to sort of

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Speaker 1: grapple with this statement. Okay, I'm just gonna say this

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Speaker 1: right now, and just know this changed everything for me.

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Speaker 1: Our bodies are over seventy five percent water. How can

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Speaker 1: you expect that we would not be affected by the

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Speaker 1: moons the tides? Oh my god, did she say that? No,

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Speaker 1: she didn't say that, but someone did who I don't remember,

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Speaker 1: but whoever they were change my life because I went

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Speaker 1: from being'm like I don't believe in that too someone

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Speaker 1: saying that to me, and then I was like, not

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Speaker 1: only do I believe in it, but I'm making it

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Speaker 1: a large part of my personality going forward. And you

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Speaker 1: as a water sign that's on period, as a waterside

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Speaker 1: that's actually on aquatic period, aquatic period. We mentioned our

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Speaker 1: guests in passing, Yes we did, And I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: RuPaul right now and my new thing is I'm saying

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Speaker 1: how I meet people like RuPaul would say it. I

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Speaker 1: met our guest in Mexico City in two twenty one.

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Speaker 1: It was New Year's I was with my sister Bowen Yang,

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Speaker 1: and we connected and shopped together the next day after

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Speaker 1: a night o'le on the talent at the store, boyfriend's

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Speaker 1: shirt and I had active COVID nineteen. And I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you I had active COVID nineteen. I did not know

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Speaker 1: about it. And we shopped in a small store together

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Speaker 1: and I immediately texted our guests. I said, do you

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Speaker 1: have the coronavirus nineteen? And he said no. So not

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Speaker 1: only is this person an author, a host of all

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Speaker 1: things considered the legendary MPR host, I mean just like

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Speaker 1: man myth legend performer. I mean, have you heard of

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Speaker 1: Pink Martini. I mean like it's just like there's there's

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Speaker 1: so much underneath the gorgeous visage of this man. And

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Speaker 1: also no, he is very much Bella Ramsey and the

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Speaker 1: last of us, and that he needs his brain removed

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Speaker 1: and needs to be studied because he is COVID immune. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it will cure humanity if they study his brain. This

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Speaker 1: man is the vaccine. This man is the vaccine. Can

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Speaker 1: I just say, you know who listens to all things considered?

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Speaker 1: Every day in the car? My mother many. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, your mother. I was gonna say this because

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Speaker 1: I'm sure our guest gets like, oh, my parents love you,

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Speaker 1: and like, certainly I put on NPR doing the dishes

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom, doing the routine. This man is in

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Speaker 1: my ear. But for my mother to like choose to

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Speaker 1: listen to an English language program, wow, huge deal, huge deal.

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Speaker 1: You cannot get her to watch anything or listen to

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Speaker 1: anything that is not in Mandarin Chinese like, except when

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Speaker 1: it is undeniably essential. And that is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Two words, undeniably dundant. It's a front runner for title

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Speaker 1: of app undeniably essential. The new book is the best

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Speaker 1: Strangers in the World. It is quite a read. Quite

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Speaker 1: read a bowl. I read this. I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna eat like five days three that I'm a celeb reader.

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Speaker 1: I read this in three Yeah. Absolutely, we loved it.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful stories from a beautiful life well lived. I've also

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Speaker 1: been sent an iconic three copies of it from PR,

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Speaker 1: and I want to say thank you because I absolutely

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Speaker 1: love having a gift to give because I can't think

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Speaker 1: of a better gift to give then the book by

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Speaker 1: our guest. And this is a moment in time. I

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Speaker 1: know readers publishist katies who identify as hashtag actually smart

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Speaker 1: are absolutely over the moon today to welcome into our

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Speaker 1: ears our guests. All right, oh my god, you guys,

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Speaker 1: you have given me so much over the year's entertainment, fashion, advice, fashion.

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Speaker 1: Last the only thing you have not given me is

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen truly, and let me tell you, I was

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Speaker 1: a just way of COVID, Like it was like pee

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Speaker 1: peak contagion. If only you had spit in my drink.

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Speaker 1: I know, I thought about it. That was a fun

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Speaker 1: night and that was my last night there. We all

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Speaker 1: went out. That was very fun. That was the night

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Speaker 1: that I'm in R two. Yeah, on that rooftop bar.

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Speaker 1: And you know what was so meaningful to me was

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Speaker 1: seeing over the course of the year that followed all

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Speaker 1: of the flowers that bloomed for both of you from

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Speaker 1: Fire Island too. I love that for you to wick it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's been so glorious. This in a way

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Speaker 1: feels like a full circle moment where we're able to

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Speaker 1: reconvene and appreciate the amazing harvest you have both read

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Speaker 1: that is too nice, that it's so nice. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to say. But this, this man is here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. He's a host in all ways. Like here,

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Speaker 1: he is making us, fluffing us on our own podcast, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and iconic coast in his own right. And I'll say,

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Speaker 1: I've had dinner at the man's home in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: The district of Columbia. As many people say, this man

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Speaker 1: can cook. He can cook. It's unbelievable. Secret ingredient is love.

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Speaker 1: I just pour a lot of love into it. There

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Speaker 1: is a culture out there of from my garden. There

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Speaker 1: is a from my garden culture there people who get

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Speaker 1: to say the words from my garden, my garden, blessed bunch.

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Speaker 1: I know that I'm a cliche, but yeah, no, I garden.

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Speaker 1: I grow vegetables, and I'm gonna just come clean about this.

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Speaker 1: I have a garden coach. I have this amazing urban

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Speaker 1: farmer who every two weeks comes over and tells me

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Speaker 1: how not to kill all the organic vegetables I'm growing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not ashamed to admit that they are from

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Speaker 1: this incredible, small, local queer women owned company called Love

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Speaker 1: and Carrots. And it's the best decision that I made.

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Speaker 1: And them you have a trainer, that's I have. I

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Speaker 1: have an organic vegetable trainer. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

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Speaker 1: I have professional help. Now that's perfect. At this point,

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Speaker 1: I need a task rabbit for everything. Not that I

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Speaker 1: actually hire them, but it's someone to tell me. But

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Speaker 1: it's like, at a certain point, I'm just like helpless, literally,

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Speaker 1: and like all I can do is get help. You

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Speaker 1: cannot be expected to be good at literally everything. You

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Speaker 1: cannot be expected to be an expert at everything. And

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Speaker 1: if you have an opportunity to bring in somebody to

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Speaker 1: share their gifts and talents with you and economically support

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Speaker 1: them at the same time, it's a win win win.

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Speaker 1: There you go. That's my feeling about the thing. This

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Speaker 1: is pro test rabbit culture. And I've always been very

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Speaker 1: pro test rabbit because this is pro gig economy. This

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Speaker 1: is pro gig economy. It's called just pro gig economy. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we support it, we sup. I just say, if Bowen,

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Speaker 1: if you want to figure out how to do all

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Speaker 1: these things yourself, just have the task rabbit come over

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Speaker 1: and then watch intently. Right, Yeah, it's the whole Give

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Speaker 1: a person a fish, Teach a person a persing. Thank

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Speaker 1: you Jesus, teach a person a fish. Watch that motherfucker fish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: film the person fishing. Kill the person fishing. You said kill.

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Speaker 1: Where I'm at? Took a turn? How is this book tour?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? Yeah? It is so incredible. I

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Speaker 1: keep waiting for the experience of signing books to become

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Speaker 1: just a repetitive hand cramp activity, but every time I'm

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Speaker 1: doing it, I feel just in sort of shock that

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Speaker 1: these words that I wrote in private on my laptop,

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Speaker 1: wondering if anybody would ever want to read them or

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to read them, are now going out

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Speaker 1: into the world and being consumed by people. And as

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Speaker 1: I meet people, like, it's just, you know, radio is

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Speaker 1: this very strange medium where you might reach an enormous audience,

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Speaker 1: as you know with your podcast, but you don't often

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to engage with them because they're listening

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Speaker 1: in their car or their kitchen or wherever, and you

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Speaker 1: may never meet them. And now I'm like actually going

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Speaker 1: from city to city and meeting people who are telling

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Speaker 1: me that they listen to what I have to say

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Speaker 1: and they're reading the words that I wrote, and it's

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Speaker 1: this really meaningful experience. So it's a like ambitious eleven

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Speaker 1: city tour with a crazy itinerary. But I'm so thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be doing it. Like originally I was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be New York, Philly, Boston, DC, which makes sense, and

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Speaker 1: then Dallas was like, oh, we want you to come visit,

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Speaker 1: and I had one extra day, so I went Philly, Dallas,

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Speaker 1: Boston and met some amazing people in Dallas and went

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Speaker 1: two stepping at his country western gay bar called the

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Speaker 1: Roundup Saloon. Like I'm having a great time. I'm really

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Speaker 1: just loving this experience. Oh that's the best travel show.

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Speaker 1: Travel show for Art Shapiro. I'm down. I mean, sign

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Speaker 1: me up. You know what it's like to be on

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Speaker 1: the road. You go out with Alan all the time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so Alan coming, And I made this show with your

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Speaker 1: friend and mine and words. And as soon as I

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Speaker 1: finished this book tour, we are all convening at the

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Speaker 1: Cafe Carlisle in New York for a two week run.

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Speaker 1: There we go, Oh amazing, It's the most fun thing

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Speaker 1: I've ever done to just like bounce around the country

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Speaker 1: with Alan and Henry and you know, like we do

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Speaker 1: this show where we just make ourselves laugh and hopefully

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Speaker 1: make the audience laugh too, and we sing songs together

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Speaker 1: and we it's never quite the same at any two nights.

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Speaker 1: And Alan, I mean you've both met him, you know,

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Speaker 1: magic man like mentor friend, older brother figure, just the kindest,

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Speaker 1: most generous, selfless, joyful person I've ever met. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love the chapter that I said, what would you call gosh?

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Speaker 1: I never know what to call them chapter and story

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Speaker 1: essay either, Yeah, whatever, lovely chunk chunk the chunk where

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Speaker 1: Because this is the dream, right when you're performing with

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Speaker 1: someone else on stage, is that they put you at

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Speaker 1: ease totally. You described like people asking you like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it must be really intimidating to the performance someone of

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Speaker 1: Alan's stature or whatever, and for you to say no,

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Speaker 1: it's the opposite is huge. Well, because it's like if

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Speaker 1: I jump, I know he'll catch me if our show

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Speaker 1: is going off the tracks. He is so talented and

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Speaker 1: experienced and gifted, he knows how to get it back

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Speaker 1: on the tracks. So I just have to like get

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Speaker 1: up there and have a good time with him. And

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Speaker 1: in the moments when we do forget what we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to do, it's brilliant, it's fun. It's a moment that

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Speaker 1: the audience experiences that will never be quite that way again.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've both had this experience where you're doing

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Speaker 1: a scene or a show or something with somebody who

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Speaker 1: has so much more experienced, talent and expertise than you

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Speaker 1: that you just feel like, oh, they've got this. I

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Speaker 1: can relax and I know that they can steer me

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Speaker 1: where I need to go. But then you still get

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Speaker 1: better in the process of just like totally yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you level up. Yep. It's that thing of when you

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable enough and I'm ad nauseam about this on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I feel, but I do feel it's the

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Speaker 1: best advice ever for a performer, which is when you

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable enough to start really having fun, that's when

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Speaker 1: the audience feels like they're having fun, like truly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I always credit it. It's an Amy Pohler's book, Yes please.

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Speaker 1: She said. The hack is if you're having fun, they're

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Speaker 1: having fun. And so even in a very intimidating atmosphere

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Speaker 1: where you know you're performing at say the Hollywood Bowl

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Speaker 1: as you have, or alongside Alan Cumming, where there is

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Speaker 1: probably not for nothing but a ticket buyer who expects

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Speaker 1: a certain degree of excellence. And I would imagine also

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Speaker 1: someone that's coming that's like an NPR ticket buyer is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily not going to be thinking about the value

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Speaker 1: of their dollar. Oh but you know the great thing

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Speaker 1: about that scenario is they come in with such low

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Speaker 1: expectations for me that it's very easy for you. Like

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Speaker 1: if I can carry a tune, they're like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: you can carry a tune. Like allen coming one a Tony.

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Speaker 1: People come in being like I expect a Tony Award

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Speaker 1: went actually two Tony's to Tony Award winning performance. And

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Speaker 1: then there's that other guy who's a journalist. And so

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Speaker 1: then when I can like harmonize with Alan, people are

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Speaker 1: like yeah, they're freaking yeah, it's amazing. And of course

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Speaker 1: Henry Koperski, the third we call him the vegan meat

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Speaker 1: in our sandwich. Um, we couldn't do it without him.

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Speaker 1: He's just such a perfect foil. He's such a perfect

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Speaker 1: sort of like you know, straight man in the corner,

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Speaker 1: and we sort of toy with him throughout the show.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you're talking to someone who knows quite

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Speaker 1: a bit about toying with toy with Henry's meat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he alright, vegan meat. He really is. He's just he

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Speaker 1: is a perfect foil. I mean, like it's just me

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Speaker 1: up there talking and I'll reference him and he is

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Speaker 1: like the other half of my act on stage, but

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Speaker 1: he is in musically he's so able to get on

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Speaker 1: the page right right there. I mean, he's truly a

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Speaker 1: super So. The other day, as you know, Matt I

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Speaker 1: said to Henry, look, I want to do a version

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Speaker 1: of Celo Green's song fuck You, but I want to

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Speaker 1: do it like in an earnest Josh Groban style with

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Speaker 1: an a tomniment that's sort of like early Passaic and

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Speaker 1: Paul and He's like got you and he did it,

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Speaker 1: and it's like okay, here we go, and can we

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Speaker 1: just say it is like an actual skill and talent

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Speaker 1: to be like played off of in that sense right

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Speaker 1: where it's like you're an accompanist or you're you're at

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Speaker 1: the keys, you're on display, like you're on stage just

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Speaker 1: as much as someone like as like either of you

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Speaker 1: and you kind of have to like do something technical,

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Speaker 1: which is to play the music, but also like roll

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Speaker 1: with like the vibe of the of the show and

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Speaker 1: like smile and like play along with like everything that's happening.

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Speaker 1: It is a true talent that I think is undersung. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at the people who Henry has

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Speaker 1: worked with, from those of us present here to like

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Speaker 1: credit titleman, Yeah yeah, Larry Owens, Allen Cumming, like the

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Speaker 1: list of people who he has made better than we

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Speaker 1: actually are is long. I will say my favorite person

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Speaker 1: he's ever played for when I released my special with

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Speaker 1: Henry and I made together and I posted a separate

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Speaker 1: like grid post like that was just all for him.

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Speaker 1: The last picture I posted in like the Carousel was

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Speaker 1: him and Vanessa Williams, because I'll just never forget when

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Speaker 1: he got to play for Vanessa Williams and I thought

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Speaker 1: that was so amazing And that was like early on

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Speaker 1: what like before he was like, you know, literally pals

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Speaker 1: with you and Alan Cumming and like it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: surprise to see him in like whatever country, Like I

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Speaker 1: never know where in the world he is anymore. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the proudest times I ever. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's the proudest I've ever been when I hear what

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Speaker 1: he's doing, and just because I knew him, truly when

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Speaker 1: like my image of Henry is like him covered in sweat,

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Speaker 1: like carrying a keyboard upstairs, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like going from thing to thing, like truly being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously deeply appreciated by the comedy community, but

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Speaker 1: we were not able to appreciate him financial that we

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Speaker 1: should have been. And now I take great pleasure in

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Speaker 1: being able to give him these opportunities and like treat

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Speaker 1: him the way that he deserves to be treated because

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Speaker 1: we finally can. But I just remember, like back in

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Speaker 1: the day, the Vanessa Williams thing. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's like a legit superstar. You got to play with

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Speaker 1: her and the readers publicist Katie's No, Henry as like

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Speaker 1: a character on this podcast, like recurring guest star, even

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Speaker 1: though he's never actually made it appear. No, yes, he has.

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Speaker 1: Oh my went early early days, ye early days. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he got his own episode. I came to it late.

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Speaker 1: I have to go back into the archives, you do.

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Speaker 1: That would be a really interesting listen because I think

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Speaker 1: we were dating at the time, and I also think, oh,

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Speaker 1: that was like right after Trump was elected though, and

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Speaker 1: I remember he had gotten to meet Michelle Obama. Do

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Speaker 1: you know this has hey? Oh wait, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: My publicist Joseph Papa showed me this. I did not,

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Speaker 1: and I had to just like last week, remember that, Henry,

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Speaker 1: How did I not know that this was you? Of

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Speaker 1: course I've seen this viral video with Jimmy Fallon, is

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about, right, yeah, oh yes, yes, oh

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Speaker 1: of course, Oh my god. That was that was huge.

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Speaker 1: That was so special. It was such a horrible time

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Speaker 1: because he had Trump had just been elected, and everyone

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Speaker 1: was truly it was horrible. Henry and I were living together,

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Speaker 1: I believe, still in South Slope, and he was gonna

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Speaker 1: go do this bit on the Tonight Show where you

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Speaker 1: had to tell a picture of Michelle Obama like what

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Speaker 1: she meant to you. I feel like now, knowing what

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Speaker 1: we know, like you know Michelle Obama. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: he didn't, and she came out and gave him a

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Speaker 1: hug and thanked him, and it was just you know,

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Speaker 1: there's not a more beautiful from the inside out person

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Speaker 1: than him, And to see him get that moment and

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Speaker 1: receive that moment and like you know, he really felt

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Speaker 1: like all of us in a way, like and I

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Speaker 1: was just overflowing. And then we talked about that on

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Speaker 1: the episode. That was a very emotional time. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: talk about just like a superstar inside and out. That's Henry,

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Speaker 1: I mean. And you can't if you're if you're someone

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Speaker 1: that wants to book him for December, you can't have him.

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Speaker 1: He's mine. That's Christmas for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: What is it? First option? No, first position? Sorry, first

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Speaker 1: He's in first position with me for all of Christmas.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Speaking of the Obamas, Yes, it's a weird

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Speaker 1: thing that I've clung onto from the book Ari is

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Speaker 1: that you describe being an Air Force one And I

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Speaker 1: don't know why this is sticking with me, but you're

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Speaker 1: like describing eating I think spaghetti and meat balls, and

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Speaker 1: I think you wrote the line the food on Air

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00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: Force one tends to lean heavy. Yes, talk about that?

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Speaker 1: What is that about? Well, even after Michelle Obama did

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Speaker 1: her whole Let's Move Eat Healthy, Improving school lunches things, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I loved Let's move well in the press corps in

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Speaker 1: the back of Air Force One, which still for lunch

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Speaker 1: should be sort of like a slab of meat loaf

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Speaker 1: and mashed potatoes. Why is this happening when the first

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Speaker 1: lady is encouraging consumption of fresh, healthy meals. And we

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Speaker 1: speculated that it was because they wanted to keep us

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Speaker 1: sedated and leak. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're not going to

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Speaker 1: ask the president tough questions if you're in a food coma,

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Speaker 1: and so our theory never proven was that they were

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Speaker 1: trying to keep us down by overfeeding us heavy meals

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Speaker 1: on Air Force. Interesting. I think that that makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense. It's just a theory. We need an

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Speaker 1: investigate reporter to get on that. I mean, you were

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Speaker 1: too tired to investigate it. I mean, look, this was

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00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: the Obama administration, so things may have changed. For all

426
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: I know, there's now an Air Force one salad bar,

427
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: but at the time there was a real dearth of vege.

428
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: That's so funny. Can I ask about Obama in person?

429
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: So you describe him sort of coming up and like,

430
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: you know, asking how's lunch, and like being very present

431
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: and you being in his a minute media vicinity many times?

432
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: Is it giving star quality? Yeah, in the sense, so

433
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: like there's sort of paparazzi star quality and then there's

434
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: I'm so comfortable in my own skin that I don't

435
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: need to tell you that I'm a star star body.

436
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: And he always he really gives off kind of bro vibes,

437
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: basketball player vibes, like he always just seemed super chill,

438
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: super laid back, very relaxidentt And actually, so my husband

439
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: worked in the Obama White House. We overlapped for like

440
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: one year, which was an interesting momentum. He was a

441
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: White House lawyer, and so he kind of had a

442
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: different perspective on the President from me, but he describes

443
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: him the same way as just sort of like kind

444
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: of broy chill. Yeah, that first time I met him,

445
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: I remember, so I'm like sitting in my chair in

446
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: Air Force one and he's standing literally right next to

447
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: the arm rest taking questions, and I remember looking up

448
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: at him and I saw razor bumps on his neck. Yeah,

449
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: you talk about this in the book. It was like

450
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: it was my first time on Air Force one and

451
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: I had never been quite that close to the president,

452
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: and I just remember thinking like, oh, this is just

453
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: a normal dude, Like he's a guy who shaves in

454
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: the morning and gets razor bumps like anyone else. And

455
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: he had been such a larger than life figure any president,

456
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, like the symbol, the hail to the chief,

457
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: the like trappings of the office, especially him totally, and

458
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: in that moment I was just like, Oh, he's just

459
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: a guy like any of us. It humanized him for me.

460
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: The razor bumps were the thing I latched onto. I

461
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: affected too, did Isn't that a great word? That word

462
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: cafexis yeah, which is even cooler because once you throw

463
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: the X in there, it's like any word is better

464
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: with an X in it. It's that's that's a rule

465
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: of culture. That's a real culture. Blood number is that boone,

466
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: that's a real culture number? Twenty six? Any word I

467
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: was just trying to reference a word that had X

468
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: zenax a great word. It's the umammy of letters. It

469
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: just makes every word. Is that another lilla culture? X

470
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: is the um of letters? Yes it is. It's culture

471
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: number fifteen letters. It hits you in the back of

472
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: the tongue. Yes. I never understood umammy until someone was like, well,

473
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: what's umami? Is ketchup? And I was like, Okay, I understand.

474
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 1: The ketchup has all everything. Ketchup is umami. Se sour,

475
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: a little bitter. You need a little bitter just to

476
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: round out yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah. Oh my gosh,

477
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: you really need all tastes. And that's culture number eighteen.

478
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: You really need. And I would say that about culture too,

479
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: And you know, that's a great segue, because I think

480
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: you need all different kinds of people in this world

481
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: to blend together to make the culture. And you are

482
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: a person in culture. You're a culture former, You're a

483
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: culture reactor. You are the perfect person to ask this question,

484
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: which is the center question of last porturies does or

485
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: a Shapiro What was the culture that made you say

486
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: culture was for you? Okay, I've thought a lot about

487
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: this and I realized the true authentic answer is one

488
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: that is not necessarily mainstream or cool, but it's real,

489
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna give it to you. That's perfect.

490
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, my parents had a VHS

491
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: tape dubbed from the television of the PBS performances of

492
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Into the Woods and Sunday in the Park with George

493
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: original cast Wow Bernadette and both Yes Bernadette in both

494
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Manny Patinkin and sending the part of George chipsign In

495
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: the Woods, Joanna Gleeson, Yeah, Joanna Gleeson, and like, I

496
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: watched those VHS tapes to the point that now thirty

497
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: years later, I can still recite literally every lyric from

498
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: every one of those shows by heart. And my parents

499
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: and said, oh, you know, we're actually related to Mandy Pattenkon,

500
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait what, and they were like, yes,

501
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: our cousin Phyllis is married to his cousin Bert, not

502
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: my first cousin, not his first cousin. This is like

503
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: not actually related, but I as this, like young teenager,

504
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: was so excited about it. I wrote a fan letter

505
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: to Mandy Potenkon. Were related, My cousin is married to

506
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: your cousin, and I loved your performance so much and

507
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: I watched it. He sent back an autographed headshot, which

508
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: I pinned to my wall and had in my childhood

509
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: bedroom all through high school. Like other people had guns n'

510
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: roses posters or Christie Brinkley photos, I had an autographed

511
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: headshot of Mandy Pattenkin, who I'm sure it looked gorgeous.

512
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: Of course, it was like the Princess Bride years. Okay,

513
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: but a star. There is a coda to this story

514
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: is such a star. Yeah. Fast forward to my adult

515
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: life as a host of All Things considered. Yes, and

516
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: I'm interviewing Man Tinkin about his album Wow. And before

517
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: we start the interview, I say, Mandy, I have a

518
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: funny story to tell you. And I tell him this

519
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: whole thing and he says, wait, who's your cousin? And

520
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: I say, well, my cousin Phyllis was married to your

521
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: cousin Bert. And he says, oh my god, you were related.

522
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: Bert is my favorite cousin. He was the greatest. I

523
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: wait until I tell Catherine, Mandy's wife that we are

524
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: related to Ari Shapiro of NPO. You have to come

525
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: to my life show. I'm doing it in DC. When

526
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: we came to his live show, my parents happened to

527
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: be visiting DC. We went backstage, he greeted them like family.

528
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm getting emotional just telling you about this. It's yeah.

529
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: So that's that's my story. That's like those VHS tapes

530
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: of the original Broadway performance of Sunday in the Park

531
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: with George and Into the Woods set me on a

532
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: journey of culture that continues to this day. Incredible actually

533
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: perfectly for you because it is because it's a thinking

534
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: person's musical theater to and I would describe you as

535
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 1: a thinking person, thank you. I would describe you as

536
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: a thinking person too, Matt Rogers, Well, that's huge. Not

537
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: everyone was. I'm a feeling person, but that's perfect for you,

538
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: like the Sandheim of it all, And then you know

539
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: musical theater inclinations like that's perfect. And when I think

540
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: back to those shows as a kid, I saw Into

541
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: the Woods as very much about fairy tales, which as

542
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: a kid made sense. And when I saw the Broadway revival,

543
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, it was very loyal to the original text.

544
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: It didn't revolutionize it. But now as an adult, I realize, oh,

545
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: it's a show about parents and children that uses fairy

546
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: tales as the vehicle. And I think that as kids,

547
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: like we as absorbed what we're able to absorb. We

548
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: take in what makes sense to us. And great works

549
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: of art can evolve over time in our minds and

550
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: our understanding and operate on so many different levels. You know.

551
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: It's the genius of Sondheim, the genius of great art,

552
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: the genius of great art. I thought the same thing

553
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: when I saw Into the Woods on Broadway too, where

554
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, my reading of this show in

555
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: high school was like completely different than like what it

556
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: is now as an adult. I'm like, this is insane,

557
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: Like what a gorgeous sort of kinetic work it is. Yeah,

558
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: it's amazing. And I thought the revival was outstanding. And

559
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: I will say I just saw the revival of Sweeney Todd. Yeah, well,

560
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: so I saw it in previews and so I'm actually

561
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: seeing it. I'm actually seeing it two more times. I'm

562
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: seeing it this Friday and next Friday. So many times

563
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: you got copies of my book in the mail exactly, Well,

564
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to read on the subway. I'm going to

565
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: read each time. Yeah, but that's my favorite musical. So

566
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: it's it's Sweeney into the Woods or up There from Yes,

567
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: I love Sweeney Todd. I feel like you could write

568
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: a whole other musical with just the backstory that is

569
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: delivered in a single song in the beginning of Act one.

570
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: Oh you know what I mean, Like, there is so

571
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: much information delivered in that first song. Yup, It's like

572
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: you can make a whole other musical about anyway before

573
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: he was talking about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

574
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: mean there's so much there. Yeah, I mean it's it's

575
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: before the action even like begins, you know, absolutely, Yeah,

576
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: it's so hard sometimes when you really marry a certain

577
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: version of something in your head. Like I wonder if

578
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: when you're seeing the revival of Into the Woods, it's

579
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: like you find yourself like sort of trudging along a

580
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: little bit mentally watching it because you're so in love

581
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: with a certain version that you're able to quote and

582
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: I would imagine like sing along too in ways like

583
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: because once you get really marinated and like Bernadette's Witch,

584
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it might be hard to hear another witch.

585
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. I expected to feel

586
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: that way about the revival of Once on This Island,

587
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: which was another show that that revival reinvented the show

588
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: in a way that was so exciting. Show you will

589
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: always be famous, incredible, incredible moment by moment, just surprising, delightful. Yeah, loved, loved, loved. Yeah,

590
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: there's something about Sunday in the Park, that original production

591
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: where the dress is still like insane that they made

592
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: that happen like people who haven't seen it, Like Burnette

593
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: like steps out of a dress that like mechanically animatronically

594
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: like opens up and I'm still like, how did they

595
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: do that? That would be hard to do today. I

596
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: feel even that and the Witch's transformation, both of them.

597
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, Bernadette has these two moments that are stage magic. Yes, no,

598
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: Bernadette is such a superstar. I mean like a duh,

599
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: But like, Bernadette is one of the best of all time.

600
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: And I wonder how she got like a Kennedy Center honors. Oh,

601
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: she's overdue, she needs that. I was once at a

602
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: gym in South Beach, Miami and she was there working

603
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: out with a trainer, and I actually like suddenly followed

604
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: her around. Yeah, you have to have to you have

605
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: How could you not? How could you verify it? Was

606
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: she doing there? I can't remember it was it was

607
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: literally two thousand and four. She was doing back Yeah,

608
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: what she doing there? It was it was upper body.

609
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Those are those are formative time. Those

610
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: are really good, well done. Thank you laid the question.

611
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: Wow I was dressed about that. Really. Yeah, those are wonderful,

612
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: wonderful answers. Thank you, thank you. No, I'm so honored

613
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: that you think so you know what you absolutely have

614
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: to go see. And I talked about this, the less

615
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: them because I sort of went on a Broadway tear

616
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: and I saw everything. You have to see the new

617
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: Parade Revival. I know, Ari, you will be really moved.

618
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: You'll have a great time. He is. I was just

619
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: listening the cast album Kids for the new revival. It's

620
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: just so so good. I think Jason Robert Brown is

621
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: Sondheim ascending, you know what I like. I think he

622
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: is so good. I feel like he has like really

623
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: revolutionized like and like mastered this new like contemporary musical

624
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: theater sound. And this is like his first thing. This

625
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: really holds up. It's beautiful. It's one of his best

626
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: I love pretty much everything he does. But you gotta

627
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: make this end bow in YouTube, Like, if there's any

628
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: free time, this is the one I'm dying to see

629
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: that I'm dying to see Merrily We Roll Along, And

630
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm new Sean Hayes play that ran in Chicago, where

631
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: a friend of mine said it was astounding, and it's

632
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: about to open on Broadway. It's called Goodnight Oscar. I

633
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: think Goodnight Oscar. Yeah, I hear, it's amazing. I also

634
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: want to see that one. And also Jessica Chestein in

635
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: a Dolls House my college friend Amy Herstock wrote the

636
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: new translation adaptation, did well, I hear great things about it.

637
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: Something happens at the end that is such a gag

638
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: Like it's like, I can't even spoil it. But if

639
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: anyone out there has seen Jessica Chestin in Nadalla's house,

640
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: what happens at the end of the play, like the

641
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: way that Nora like spoiler alert for a doll's house.

642
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: But even though this is the hashtag actually smarted up episode,

643
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: if you've made it this far in this episode of

644
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: Last Culture, you know a doll's house, I'm gonna assume. Oh,

645
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: but the way that Nora leaves Mama, it might as

646
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: well have been a death drop. There is there a trapdoor,

647
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: all of the witch throwing the beans and into the woods,

648
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,479
Speaker 1: just you know, a screech and a puff of smoke. Wait, really,

649
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: did I just call it? Is that what happened? I

650
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: can't confirm her denid trap, but your eyes went wide

651
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: wide at the recommenition. Now, Matt, I have a question,

652
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: do we think Annalie is like because this is her

653
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: what's at least her second time doing sondheime, because she

654
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: did Sunning the party. Yeah, she's like the new girlie

655
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: or a new girl today. Yep. I think that is

656
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: very exciting that there is. I don't even know if

657
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: we can call her new anymore. She's like she is,

658
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: of course, no, she's But what I think what Bowen

659
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: is saying is like, there comes a time when like

660
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: you become like, yes, musical theater beloved, and but you

661
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: have done to Sonteime's faby, Yeah you saw him multiple times.

662
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: It's basically like, what what's the status? Yes? And I

663
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: think that's important. She're saying that in the same way

664
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: that we refer to like Bernadette Patty ethel Bet, where

665
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: we should start just saying Annalie maybe, which is crazy,

666
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: and also Donna Murphy too, don't forget that conversation. Like, honestly,

667
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: I will say this, if ever you see an interview

668
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: with the musical theater actress and they say, well, the

669
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: first time I met Steve and they referred to him

670
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: as Steve, that's a tell. That is a huge talent.

671
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: I think it is so funny when these women say

672
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: Steve because it's just so familiar and it makes me laugh.

673
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: But um, what I will say is that he definitely

674
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: signed off on her casting and liked her casting. I

675
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: believe I read something in the New York Times that

676
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: said he was to see a reading of it and

677
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: then of Sweeney Sweet. Oh yeah, yeah, Like this has

678
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: been in development now for long enough that he was

679
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: aware of it, knew of it, and signed off on it.

680
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing I found in that article was

681
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: that this actually was his most personal piece. Yes, I

682
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: was so surprised to read that. Yes, we're saying that,

683
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, Steve, this is the story of your life,

684
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: and he maybe wasn't even conscious of that or didn't

685
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: want to necessarily admit that. But I mean minus the

686
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: eating people right exactly, besides the murder and the you know, annibalism. Yeah,

687
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: and they having rumpled bed with a woman rumpled beddingized.

688
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: But yeah, this idea that he had been done wrong

689
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: by the world. M I'm not sure how I feel

690
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: about his unfinished musical being staged. I don't know. Yeah,

691
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: it's hard. We'll see, we'll see. I don't know much

692
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: about that. Actually, it's based on a like Bunuel short story.

693
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: I might be wrong, it's like a Lorca Baby. It's

694
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: based on a work of fiction, and he'd been working

695
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: on it for a really long time. But I don't

696
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: know much clearly more than we do. But I saw

697
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: that headline too, and I was like, Okay, okay, let's

698
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: reserve judgment. I guess we have the goal, and I'm

699
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: actually gonna have some goal right now. I have to

700
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: ask you a question, and I think it's going to

701
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: be a pointed question. All right, here's the thing I

702
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: have to say to you. So I was at the

703
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: Kennedy Center and I watched your set, just no big deal,

704
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: you were hosting your show. I came because I was

705
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: headlining with Henry the next night, and I watched your

706
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: set and you were performing a song and you said

707
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: there was a lyric in your song that was like,

708
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: and some people watch Housewives sort of roll with your

709
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: eyes at me. And I thought, this, motherfucker, yes, is

710
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: being elitist towards me. So here, I was performing the

711
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: Noel Coward classic Why Do the Wrong People Travel? But

712
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: having been written in the middle of the twentieth century,

713
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: there are some lyrics that are quite dated, of course,

714
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: and so I replaced some with more updated lyrics. However,

715
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: I think you're playing that quote out of context because

716
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: the full line was while the right people stay back

717
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: home and watch Real Housewives. So in the dichotomy of

718
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: the wrong people traveling and the right people staying back home, you,

719
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: my friend, are the right people so resting, you should

720
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: be out there travel. Okay, good. Here's my question to you.

721
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: What's the quote unquote trashiest or lowest culture that you enjoy?

722
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: I want to know in your opinion. I mean, I

723
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: was an early Housewives watcher, but I kind of gave

724
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: up on that. Love is blind. I mean, okay, you know, okay, wait,

725
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: it's not trashy. But my friend Alan, I have to

726
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: shout out The Traders the best reality competition television show

727
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: I've seen in at least ten years. I binged it.

728
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: I savored every second of that show. The Traders. Wait.

729
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: Not to like connect too many dots, but the fact

730
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: that you're good friends with Alan and that you officiated

731
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: Alex Wagner's wedding between the most I'm the Traders. Oh

732
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: my god. As a child, I wanted so badly to

733
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: be on The Mole back when Anderson Cooper hosted it.

734
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 1: There's such a journey with the Mole for people our age.

735
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: I think like The Mole hit at a very specific

736
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: important time. I hope I'm not divulging any secrets here,

737
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: but I actually had a conversation with Alex Wagner when

738
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: she was considering whether or not to take the Mole

739
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: and it would have meant going to Australia and quarantining

740
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: and being away from her kids. And I was like,

741
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: do you have to do this? I do not delude

742
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: myself into thinking that is why. She said yes, I'm sure,

743
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: But I was like, this is the dream, this is dream.

744
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: She and I were on the same episode of Seth Myers,

745
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, I have to go say hello

746
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: to her. I'm such a huge fan. And so we

747
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: talked and yes, she I think she even volunteered that.

748
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: She was like, I was really debating going, but I

749
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: think she was saying, like I was so much happy

750
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: that I was in Australia instead of America during any races.

751
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I think the insurrection. I think January six,

752
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,479
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, she was in Australia shooting the Mole.

753
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm getting weird when you're a news person. So

754
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: NPR was going through budget cuts then, is going through

755
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: budget cuts now? I was on furlough on January sixth,

756
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: and so I was literally not allowed to check my

757
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: work email or do any work. And it was so

758
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: strange as a news person to be watching what was

759
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: unfolding and just thinking like, should I be doom scrolling

760
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: right now? Should I turn off the TV and go

761
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: for a walk? Should I like, I can't do what

762
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: I would instinctually go do, which is like help tell

763
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: the story of what's happening. And I just found myself

764
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: so kind of like a drift and at a loss

765
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: for like, how can I be helpful? How can I

766
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: be useful, Which, frankly is one of the things that

767
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: I love about being a journalist is that whenever there's

768
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: a moment when it's like everybody wants to do something

769
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: and doesn't know what to do, as a journalist, I

770
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: know what my job is, what I'm supposed to do.

771
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: And so that was a strange experience for me on

772
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: January sixth, especially as it was unfolding like a thirty

773
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: minute walk from my house not that far from Capitol Hill.

774
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it was a tragic moment. It was

775
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: horrible for democracy, for society, people physically and emotionally and

776
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: psychologically suffered. For me, as a journalist who wasn't able

777
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: to practice journalism. It was just it was very odd. Yeah, yeah,

778
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: I can't imagine because something had to kick in, but

779
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: then you have to like completely stifle it. Yeah. And

780
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: at some point when I've been listening to NPR with

781
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: CNN on mute for the last two hours, it's like, well,

782
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: do I turn away now, Like do I go take

783
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: the dogs for a walk and listen to Less culturestas

784
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, there were no help. Yes, the answer

785
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: to that question is always yes. What if literally like

786
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: all the journalists had been locked out of their accounts

787
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: and only Lost Culture could report On January sixth, it

788
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: was just like, we are here on the ground and

789
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is just disgusting. I would love to

790
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: hear that commentary. People would pay money for that commentary

791
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: that honestly though, like in a real way, like to

792
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: be have to be a spect theater. There is really

793
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: tough when you have the talent and you have the

794
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: experience that you have to be able to like, you know,

795
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: especially I remember watching it and there was an element

796
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: of knowing exactly what was happening, but being so confused.

797
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: And I think that that is because we've never seen

798
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: anything like this before in the United States, right, and

799
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: so it does need to be explained, like what we

800
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: are seeing is an insurrection. This is the definition of

801
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: what that means. This is how this could end, This

802
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: is how much danger these people are in. So it

803
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: does fall to people like you to be able to

804
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: get that information across. And I will also say one

805
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: of the most moving and stirring parts of your book,

806
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: Best Strangers in the World, is you talking about your

807
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: experience with nine to eleven and literally speaking on the

808
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: phone to people in a journalistic capacity who then would

809
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: perish you know, I guess minutes or hours later. Just

810
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: that had to be that has to I don't stay

811
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: with you forever is not even the words. It has

812
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: to be formative as a person, well, it was formative.

813
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: I mean at that point I was sort of the

814
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: most junior person on the staff of Morning Edition. I

815
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: was working attempt contract. I was working overnights from one

816
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: to nine am, and I was actually going to go

817
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: home early because I couldn't stay awake. And then we

818
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: started seeing smoke coming out of the World Trade Center,

819
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: and so my job was just to call people in

820
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: the towers and put them on the air and say

821
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: what are you seeing? And what I realized that day

822
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: was so at that point, Bob Edwards was the host

823
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: of Morning Edition, and he was not a person who

824
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: spoke more than he needed to. He was a very

825
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of taciturn person. He's still alive. He is a

826
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: very taciturn person. And I remember when we went off

827
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: the air at Knew that day and handed off to

828
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: the next show, he said, in these moments when everyone

829
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: is wondering what they can do, we know what our

830
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: role is. We know what our job is. And I

831
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: remember everybody was lining up to donate blood, and as

832
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: a gay man, I was not allowed to donate blood,

833
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, here something I can do.

834
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: And so I would come in for the next several nights.

835
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: I would like work from nine pm to twelve noon,

836
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: and one of my jobs was to write short obituaries

837
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: that would be slotted in when segments came in like

838
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: a little bit short, and so they were like thirty

839
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: seconds to a minute. And I remember I found the

840
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 1: story of these two men and their son who their

841
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: son was a toddler. He was one of the youngest

842
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: people to die that day, and they were flying back

843
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: from a vacation, and I remember writing an obituary for

844
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 1: the three of them and referring to them as a family,

845
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: and just thinking, you know, that is something that somebody

846
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: else in this position might not have done. And I

847
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: felt like, even though it was this tiny, little thirty

848
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: second thing that just slotted into like a hole in

849
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: the show, I felt like I had left a small

850
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: fingerprint on the record of that day, and I thought like,

851
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: this is a way I can be useful. This is

852
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: a way I can actually help shape the stories we tell,

853
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: not as an activist, as a journalist, but as a

854
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: journalist who brings my own experience and history and identity

855
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: to the world. So yeah, I was a really profound

856
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: turning point from unbelievable. You write in the book about

857
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: how like starting out you would work on obituary packages.

858
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: That is like a fun peculiarity about like journalism that

859
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: I find interesting is that like when like our friend

860
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: Henry Melcher started working at MSNBC and when we're in college,

861
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: mat that was like one of the things I learned.

862
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: He was like, no, like it's so funny in these

863
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: and like my sister would like come home from like

864
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: Bloomberg or whatever. She was working for Bloomberger at the time,

865
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: and she was like, yeah, like all these news networks

866
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: have these opit packages. Do you think that probably like

867
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: honed some. Absolutely. The great thing about an obituary is

868
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: it's basically a profile. Yeah, and journalists write profiles all

869
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: the time, but this is a profile that you don't

870
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: have to do on deadline because the person is still alive.

871
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: And for me, as a beginning journalist, it gave me

872
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: an opportunity to work with NPR editors on important stories

873
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: that didn't step on any beat. Reporters toes and so

874
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: I could like gain those skills and build that expertise

875
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: and do as many edits as I needed to do

876
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: for stories that you know, might air a month or

877
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: a year or five years down the road. And it

878
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: also helped the editors get to know my skills and

879
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 1: my interests so that later on they would start pitching

880
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 1: freelance stories to me that were not obituaries that were

881
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: on deadline. And so it was a really important stepping

882
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: stone for me along the way. And as I write

883
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: in the book, Hume Cronan was like one of the

884
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: first big ones who you know, he was married to

885
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: Jessica Tandy. They both won like a lifetime achievement, Tony.

886
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: I think they were on Broadway and a million things.

887
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: They were in films like Cocoons. Yeah, and so yeah,

888
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: I'll always think fondly of Hume Cronin, who had the

889
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: courtesy of dying shortly after I did that obituary, so

890
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: it actually got on the air. So nice of him

891
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: to sit on the shelf. You got published. Yeah exactly. Wait,

892
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm not done with the Mole and Traders. Oh yeah,

893
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: yes about it. First of all, Alex Wagner energetically is

894
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: so perfect for that job. But then another person I

895
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: could see being good at something like that is you.

896
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: I would, in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat, anyone who

897
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: is making a glam reality show set in some castle. Look,

898
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: I don't want to be eating worms. I'm not interested

899
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: in having Cockroe to spill on my head. But put

900
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: me in some like fancy James Bondish get up and

901
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: telling twenty desperate people what to do. Yes, signed the up. Yeah.

902
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: Like what I had heard was Alan had the best

903
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: time doing it, Like Henry was saying that. He came

904
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: back and was like, you know, I'm not going to

905
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: do my Alan coming. But it was, you know, like

906
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: he was he was so great that he had the

907
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: best time, and that he was thrilled that they were

908
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: getting a second season and the absolutely Yeah. And you

909
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: know most of those clothes were his really yeah. I

910
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: mean like would add a sash or a beret, roach

911
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: or something, but like they were mostly his clothes. But

912
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: something tells me for season two they're likely to have

913
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: a bigger costume budget, given that there was an entire

914
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: New York Times feature just about the clothes that Alan

915
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: wears in that show. Yeah, but that is like an

916
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: important like it's not even like an ornamental thing. It's

917
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: like it's an important thing about the visual language of

918
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: that show, which makes it to stink a little everything else.

919
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: The thing that kind of burst the bubble a little

920
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: bit for me was learning that none of them actually

921
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: slept at the castle. They slept at a like crappy

922
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: airport hotel offsite. I was gonna say, that makes total sense,

923
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: That makes total sense, but also it makes it seem

924
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: so much less fun. And Alan had a little cottage

925
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: that was not far from the castle. Nobody slept in

926
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: the castle. Rummer, Yeah, there is a level of like

927
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: you want to believe they're all in there, but then

928
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: I guess that's easier to produce what everyone would tell

929
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: the movie magic. Oh but also I heard that one

930
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: of them who made it to the finals. I'm not

931
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is public. I don't think

932
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: it's a secret, but I'm just not going to name

933
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: them tested positive for COVID on literally the day everybody

934
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: was supposed to fly home, and then had to quarantine

935
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: in that shitty hotel for another like ten days or

936
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: two weeks. Yeah, after they had wrapped on this on

937
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: the show, after they had rapped on the show, I

938
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: thought you were going to say that they should say

939
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: tested positive and showed up that I want to find

940
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: out if I win. Although one contestant tested positive in

941
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the run and just closed on their Instagram.

942
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: That that's why they like dropped out and disappeared. That's why. Yeah,

943
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: that's crazy that it tests positive way through the run

944
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: and like no one else that's and that sucks. It's

945
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: giving Matt Rodgers in Mexico City. I actually did get

946
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: COVID one month ago thanks to Alan's husband. We all

947
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: had like an upstate cat Skills weekend, and I was

948
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: so grateful that it happened one month before my book

949
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: tour because I was able to host All Things Considered

950
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: from home. I sounded like I had a cold, but

951
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: I felt fine. And now I'm like maximum antibodies, kingponging

952
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: from city to city, shaking hands with strangers and not

953
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: worrying about getting COVID. That's are you still enjoying? And

954
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: this is like obviously like don't You're never going to

955
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: say no, but like, are you still invigorated and excited

956
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: about All Things Considered? It's been gears And I wonder,

957
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: like because whenever you do something for a very long time,

958
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: and like it has an identity and it has a

959
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: way that it's done. I know us with this podcast,

960
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: we're always trying to find ways to make it exciting

961
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: for us and we've succeeded. Like are you still succeeding

962
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: in doing that? Here's what I love about hosting All

963
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: Things Considered? Is it even after six years? I know

964
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: when I wake up each morning that I'm going to

965
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: go to bed knowing about something that I didn't know

966
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: when I started the day. Like I can be curious,

967
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: I can ask questions I can follow my curiosity wherever

968
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: it may lead, and the show is formatted so that

969
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: I can do some big, ambitious project where I travel

970
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: from Senegal to Morocco to Spain, connecting the dots between

971
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: climate change, migration and extremism. And then I can interview

972
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: the incredible South African pop star Nakane about their new album, which,

973
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: by the way, is my soundtrack of the Summer. It

974
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: comes out later. Nakane. They released an album a couple

975
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: of years ago that included an amazing track called New

976
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: Brighton that was a collab with Annie and it was

977
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: just a new album. It's called Bastard Jargon. I'm obsessed.

978
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: There are a couple tracks out already. One of the

979
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: tracks is a collab with Perfume Genius. Put it on.

980
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: It will make your life. Were summer anthem, queer summer,

981
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: non binary, South African influenced London based pop dance extravaganza.

982
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: You're gonna love it? Wowkay damn. Anyway, So the point

983
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: is hosting All Things Considered allows me to do both.

984
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: And yes, I can be like hashtag actually smart, and

985
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: then I can queen out with Nakane and a combination

986
00:52:54,600 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: that's hard to find. Wow, this is very I'm gonna

987
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: like really try to again connect dots. But this is

988
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: on a meta level, Like I think this is like

989
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: the thing about the book, the thing about you, is

990
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: that there's so much like connective stuff here between, Like

991
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 1: the way you're able to like bridge something from like

992
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: the way you currently are now is like a journalist

993
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote like buttoned up gay guy in DC, but

994
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: like you like trace it actually like your days in

995
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: high school, like being like queer, even though like that

996
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: wasn't the word you used back then. Yeah, to bridge

997
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: that thing, and to bridge like the things between like

998
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: all of your stories, and to bridge the thing between

999
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: like you having these like journalistic boundaries and reconciling that

1000
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 1: with the fact that you have to be vulnerable on

1001
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: stage sometimes. That was my big takeaway of the book,

1002
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: is that like you can like really shift between these modes.

1003
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear that that was what you

1004
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: took away from it, because I realized kind of in

1005
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 1: writing it that the through line of my whole life

1006
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: has been trying to make connections and trying to help

1007
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: people appreciate similarities and build bridges across chasms of difference,

1008
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: and the quality that I admire most in people is

1009
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: the ability to make those unexpected connections, bring people together,

1010
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: introduce them, you know, build opportunities for synthesis, and and

1011
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: so you know, like when I was in Mexico City

1012
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: and Henry said, you have to meet up with my

1013
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: friends Matt and Bowen, it was that kind of a

1014
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: thing where I was like, these different worlds coming together

1015
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: and interesting people connecting in a foreign place Like that

1016
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: is the thing that recharges my batteries. And so whether

1017
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: it's performing with Pink Martini or doing a show with

1018
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: Alan Coming, or reporting the news on the radio from

1019
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: a war zone, I'm just really glad that's what you

1020
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: took away from the book, because I feel like that

1021
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: is kind of the underlying like bass note of the

1022
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 1: whole thing. Code switching, international icon, international codes. Wait a minute,

1023
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: the Queer Molest show should be called like code switch

1024
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 1: or something, you know what I mean? Bo our host

1025
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: Matt and I can ep or be in it. Can

1026
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: we please make this happen? Code Switch? That is the

1027
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: name of an NPR podcast. Damn shit fuck. That's all right.

1028
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: It can be a reality show too, It can totally

1029
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: be We just got to put an X in it somewhere,

1030
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: so it's different. Like here's what I'll say, because I'll

1031
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: like make a joke and be like, yeah, I want

1032
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: to go on Survivor. I actually want to go on Traders.

1033
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: I really want to be on Traders. Boh, And you'd

1034
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: be an amazing trader. I would not be an amazing trader.

1035
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: I would be an amazing faithful. You'd be incredible faithful.

1036
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I've played Mafia with friends over the

1037
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: course of an evening and I get so fucking stressed

1038
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: out and like my blood pressure rises and that's over,

1039
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: you know, two four hours. I try to imagine doing

1040
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: it over weeks, and I think I might literally have

1041
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: an aneurysm. That's why whenever the traders like that's why

1042
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: they all like fucking break down into sobs when they leave,

1043
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: especially the traders when they get like the ones who

1044
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: got found out spoiler alert, they're like sobbing by the

1045
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: time they go. I'm like, yes, because you've been holding

1046
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: you've been like holding it together. It's literally and you

1047
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: don't have any interaction with anyone else. Right when you

1048
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: were a trader, you were experiencing what it means to

1049
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: be posted. And I hope that the straight traders are

1050
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: really considering that what they're experiencing for two weeks many

1051
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: of us experienced for many years. And you need to

1052
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: write I write this. We need to see this published

1053
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: in the Atlantic, New York Magazine and the New York first.

1054
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: It's that good. First I'm going to publish it as

1055
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: a rule of culture. This is rule of culture number ninety.

1056
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: When you are a trader, you are and I know

1057
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,439
Speaker 1: it eats them up because it's very hard. It's it's

1058
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 1: very hard, meaningful that the only non straight white male

1059
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: trader was three period. Like someone who like like is like,

1060
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: you know, visibly a very specific like identity. Let's say yep,

1061
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: and so she knows how to like huh in a

1062
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: way code switch? Maybe. Wow. Look, if you're going to

1063
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: write a think piece, you need more than one idea.

1064
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: So this is I like where this is going. First

1065
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: of all, co authored by line, he writes the foreword

1066
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: to the published piece. But no, but like I have

1067
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: to say, if these people on Traders did not know

1068
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: who Surree Fields was and what she was capable of,

1069
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: then that's your problem. She is an iconic four time

1070
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: survivor contestant who has been robbed of the win at

1071
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: least once in a real way. And I will say this,

1072
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: the most cathartic moment for someone who loves reality television

1073
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: was watching Surree Fields do that to Aria Leindike Junior.

1074
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: Because there is not a more unsung hero of reality

1075
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: television than Surree Fields, and there is not a more

1076
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: despicable act than the one that Ari lyoned, like Junior

1077
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: committed on his season of The Bachelor. So to watch

1078
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: that happen in realel so Ari basically proposed to one

1079
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 1: woman and then Becca, and then three weeks later, with

1080
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: the cameras in tow, came to our house and said,

1081
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: I I'm actually picking the other girl. And if you remember,

1082
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: Cecily did this on SNL, Cecily played this girl and

1083
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: they did a whole bit of like the cameras following around,

1084
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: like they were like outside the bathroom draw while she's

1085
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: sobbing and like Ari's there, like Becca, you have to

1086
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: come out and She's like fuck you. And basically that

1087
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: was as low as it possibly gets a show like

1088
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: The Bachelor. And so to watch the Refields look him

1089
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: in the eyes and said, you don't deserve this. And

1090
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: then do we think she knew that? Do we think

1091
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: she had seen that season of the Bachelor. I think

1092
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: she's seen everything. I don't think that's why she made

1093
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: the decision. I think she made the decision to be like,

1094
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: you're a trader because she was like, fuck you, you

1095
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: were not coming into the last second and splitting this

1096
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: money with me. This is my money. There was an

1097
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: interview where she was like, if it had been two

1098
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: million dollars, maybe I would have shared it, but two

1099
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: fifty k No, No, absolutely, they need to raise that

1100
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: prize pot too. I'll say, I agree. I want to

1101
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: start a go fund me to like but that's you

1102
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: want to be Cia. How much just how much does

1103
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: Sea give depends year to year? Do you know about this, Ari,

1104
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. I know

1105
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: who Sia is. I do not know about you know,

1106
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: the iconic Sia. She watches Survivor every season and just

1107
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: picks her favorite contestants and just sends them money Like

1108
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: that is a thing that is I And it started

1109
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: years ago when she came to like a like a

1110
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: Survivor finale reunion, and Jeff Probes was like, my friend

1111
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: Sia is in the audience and she loves the show

1112
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: and she wants to come on stage, and so she

1113
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: was and she just comes on stage with her wig

1114
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: and was like I love this shine. That was my um.

1115
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: But she was to do a better Cia than An Allen.

1116
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes I can do Allan, but only in private and

1117
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: no one will ever know. Well, but basically, like, yes,

1118
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: CIA is like another prize pot that you can win.

1119
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: It's like if you impressa you get a good edit up.

1120
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: I love It's the wild card. It's the prize, the

1121
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: wild card to see a moment. And so Bond wants

1122
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: to be that for Traders. Yeah, I want to be

1123
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: the Traders. That is a whole waiting to be filled.

1124
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, period, honey. I hope Alex get to do

1125
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: another season of them. Do we know is the Mull renewed?

1126
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: I have no information on that. I feel like it

1127
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: was no information. I thought it was too I mean,

1128
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's weird because like Netflix is the

1129
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: Mole and Peacock is Traders. I do feel I felt

1130
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: more conversation around Traders. Oh absolutely. And also Traders was

1131
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: big fish, small pond. The Mole was a small fish,

1132
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: big pond, Like nobody was talking about Peacock before, say,

1133
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: and and this is such terrible synergy, but they did

1134
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: send me like a huge care package full of peacocks swag.

1135
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: And it's like and then literally Susan Rovener, head of NBC,

1136
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: emails me pictures of the wheelhouses of Miami. In the

1137
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: photos like they were like, it was the day I

1138
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: want to talking about how much I love Peacock. She like, Who's, like,

1139
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much your photos from the like the

1140
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: Miami arena that we just shot today. Anyway, Oh what

1141
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: I want that? I want a care package from Peacock.

1142
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: I want a care package with those little packets you

1143
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: can throw into the fire to make it burn green

1144
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: or red. The drama of that so good. I love that.

1145
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: You guys need to watch UK Traders, I've heard. Yeah.

1146
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: UK Traders doesn't have Alan, but it has this other

1147
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: iconic woman hosting it. I'm forgetting her name. I'm losing

1148
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: her name, but she's like a thing in British culture.

1149
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: She's amazing. Wait are there reality stars in that one?

1150
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: Or no? It's all regular people, which I actually is

1151
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: My big note for US Traders is I think it

1152
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: should just be all reality people because I think that

1153
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: they get what's necessary of them. Oh, Claudio Winkleman is

1154
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: the host of UK Traders and she is a story

1155
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: that's never been told. I love her her bangs, I

1156
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: love it all. I love her energy. She's like Alan

1157
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: is very like dramatic, and Claudia is very British and god,

1158
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: I love that. So okay, we're gonna make code switch

1159
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: with an X. We can first option to peacock and

1160
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: after that we'll see where it cost. Yep. I love this, really,

1161
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: I actually love this. I think it's time for Bowen

1162
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: and I to co host a reality show. It's pastime.

1163
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: It is long past all three of us. I'm gonna say,

1164
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm not entitled too much in this life and in work,

1165
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: but I think all three of us deserve to host

1166
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: that kind of show. Can I tell you I actually

1167
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: have a concept for this, Bowen and I'm gonna sideboat

1168
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: with you because I think I've come up with an

1169
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: idea for us to co host show. Yes, but it's

1170
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: really good and I actually do want to pitch it,

1171
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: and I think it's really good. This is I remember

1172
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: was it Otko who her? I don't think so hard.

1173
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: It was about friendship reality shows. Yeah, this is the

1174
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: show that she's been long. It's not necessarily that it's more,

1175
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: but there's it's a twist show. So it's like you

1176
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: think it's one thing and then it's another, like a

1177
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: Milf Manner exciting. I don't really it's like Milf Manner,

1178
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: I got it. Have you watched Milf Manner? You know,

1179
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm too afraid. I'm I'm like, it's

1180
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,919
Speaker 1: it's gonna be too too disturbing, you know, it gets

1181
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: really it's the darkest version of what you think. It's

1182
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: gonna be very fast. It's hard to come back from

1183
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: abistle stuff like, yeah, truly abistle. Abyssle is a Yiddish

1184
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: word that means a little bit abistle, just a bistle.

1185
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: That's funny, just abistle, just a bistle. Also a front

1186
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: runner for the title of up. This episode's full of them.

1187
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: I think it's b I S S e L b

1188
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: I S E L. That's not what I thought I

1189
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: would have thought. B I S T L E. Oh,

1190
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: like a bristle without the R. And that's what gets me.

1191
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: Cut out the spelling be like a motherfucker is the

1192
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: book out now. It is yes audio book as well.

1193
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: I narrate the audio book. If you like me telling

1194
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: stories in your ears. You can get the best strangers

1195
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: in the world on audio book. And why wouldn't they

1196
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: want that? I mean, maybe because they get two hours

1197
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: of it every day on all things considered, but I

1198
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: don't know because they love Can I ask you a question,

1199
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: did you find the writing of the book a difficult process?

1200
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: I feel embarrassed saying this, but no, for me, it

1201
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: didn't think really really unenjoyable process. Um, it was just

1202
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: like one step at a time, one bit at a time,

1203
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: and then you know, I just gave myself permission to

1204
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: not be great in first draft, and then I would

1205
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: set it aside for a few weeks or months and

1206
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: go back and make it, you know, hopefully better. And

1207
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: I just right now feel so god like fortunate and

1208
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: satisfied to hear the way these stories are connecting with

1209
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: people and the people are finding meaning on them. It's

1210
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: really a very unusual experience for me that I'm kind

1211
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 1: of just trying to save her. It's really excellent. I mean,

1212
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: I think one of the big reasons people connect with

1213
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: you is that you find the angle that like cuts

1214
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: through the noise, and like the way you talked about

1215
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: Pulse was like the perfect example. It's like you did

1216
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: a story about like people going out the next day

1217
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: in Orlando to Parliament House. It's like, oh, but like

1218
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: what other what other news outlet is doing that? You know,

1219
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: Like it was probably just like several days, if not

1220
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks of coverage about like the

1221
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 1: victims obviously and like necessary story storytelling in that way.

1222
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: But like I think the fact that like you would

1223
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: go to like these ours in Orlando immediately after and

1224
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: like talk to people going and why is really beautiful.

1225
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: And I mean that particular story, like I knew what

1226
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: that place meant. Like I'd been going to gay bars

1227
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: my whole life. I had gone to gay bars in Orlando,

1228
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: and like it wasn't until the very end of that

1229
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: reporting experience where I was talking to this guy who

1230
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: was editor of the free gay weekly paper in Orlando.

1231
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 1: He has since passed away. His name was Billy Mains,

1232
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 1: but I was telling him like, oh, yeah, years ago,

1233
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: I went bar hupping in Orlando and I met these

1234
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: bartenders who were so sweet, and they took me out

1235
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,919
Speaker 1: the next night and that had been twelve years before

1236
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: the Pulse nightclub shooting, and so I didn't remember the

1237
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: name of the bar, and I was sure that it

1238
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: had closed. But Billy Mains said what bar was it?

1239
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: And I said, I don't remember. I'm sure it's long closed.

1240
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 1: And he said, well, what was the layout, like? What

1241
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,439
Speaker 1: did it look like? Because he lived in Orlando forever,

1242
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: and so I described what it looked like where you

1243
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: sort of walk in and there's a dance floor on

1244
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: your left and a sort of bar on your right,

1245
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: and he said that was Pulse. And I just in

1246
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: that moment, realized that like this place I had been

1247
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: reporting on all week that I knew I had some

1248
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: connection to, just from it being a gay bar, which

1249
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: is a place that I had spent so much time

1250
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,439
Speaker 1: in my life, like, it was not only a place

1251
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: that I had an abstract connection to, it was a

1252
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: place that I had a personal, immediate connection too. And

1253
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 1: I looked on my phone for the name of that

1254
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: bartender who I had met twelve years earlier, and his

1255
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: name was in there with an email address that set

1256
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: at Pulse Orlando dot com. There were two bartenders, one

1257
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: had moved to Chicago, and was no longer working there.

1258
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: The other was still working at Pulse, not on the

1259
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: night that the massacre happened. But it just made me

1260
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: realize that, like as a journalist, I can approach stories

1261
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: as an outsider, and there's value to that, but also

1262
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: the experiences that I have, my life, my history, my

1263
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: perspective on the world is not something that I have

1264
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: to set aside and put in a box when I

1265
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: go out and tell stories. It's something that I can

1266
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: bring to the stories I tell that can make them

1267
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: richer and deeper and more nuanced and more meaningful, incredible,

1268
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: It gives you like the take that really does again

1269
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: like cut through something that like cuts through the din

1270
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: of like what everyone is already hearing over and over again.

1271
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: I just always ask myself, how can I make listeners

1272
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: who are busy doing other things hear this? How can

1273
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 1: I make them try to, you know, stay parked in

1274
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 1: the driveway even though they're late to pick up their

1275
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 1: kids or whatever the case may be, because they need

1276
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: to hear the end of the story. What's the way

1277
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 1: I can tell this story that people are going to say, Oh,

1278
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: I see what those people are going through and relate

1279
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: to them. And don't just see them as somebody other,

1280
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: somebody far away, somebody different, but somebody who I have

1281
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 1: a lot more in common with than I might realize.

1282
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: Do you consume a lot of other NPRS stuff like

1283
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,680
Speaker 1: are you an NPR person outside of working there? Well,

1284
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: I graze widely. I mean I try to know what's

1285
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:58,600
Speaker 1: on Morning Edition each day, and I try to this

1286
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: and all things considered every evening when I'm not hosting,

1287
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: And that's a total of like four hours of content.

1288
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: So the rest of the stuff that I consume is

1289
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: sort of a little bit of a lot of things.

1290
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: Gotcha you listen away way, don't tell me, just sure do.

1291
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: In fact, my Chicago book event is with Peter Sagel legend.

1292
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: I just had a baby, and he's so sweet and

1293
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: wonderful to do my book event with me even though

1294
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: he has a little tiny child. And King, I'm doing

1295
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: that show this week. You are, yeah, Chicago, Matt Rogers,

1296
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: Mary the lead? Is this your first time? Second time? Oh,

1297
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: We're gonna have so much fun. I love it. I

1298
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: love doing the show. They don't do well on it,

1299
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: but I think I bring a good energy. Bowen would

1300
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: absolutely slay it. I did it over zoom. But like

1301
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: the thing is, Um, you don't have to be good

1302
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: at it to have fun. No, no, it's a blast.

1303
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: People don't listen for the knowledge. That's not why people

1304
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: are tuning in and scheidenfreude. People also not knowing what

1305
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: the fuck is, which is not necessarily true. Um okay,

1306
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: So I think we have to segue into I don't

1307
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,480
Speaker 1: Think so Honey, which is the segment of our podcast

1308
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: where Bowen Yang, Matt Rodgers, and the guests. On this

1309
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: episode it is Ari Shapiro. They all take one minute

1310
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: to rant it on something in culture that absolutely deserves

1311
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: a pulling down from the perch and a slapping in

1312
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: the head. I have something. It is topical. We haven't

1313
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: yet discussed this major moment in culture that is in process,

1314
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 1: but I have I don't think so honey about it.

1315
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: I know what this says, I intrinsically notes who I am.

1316
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: Do you know what this is? I can't wait. I

1317
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: think so yeah. I have a feeling this is Matt Rodgers.

1318
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey. As time starts new, I

1319
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,599
Speaker 1: don't think so honey. Your notes on the Era's set list,

1320
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: The Errors Tour setlist we're giving notes on it. Okay,

1321
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: I understand there are some odd choices Miss Americana and

1322
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: the Heartbreak prints as the opener, listen, all she wanted

1323
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: to say was it's been a long time, and then

1324
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: she segues into what should And I predicted that she

1325
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: would open this concert with months and Months and months

1326
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: ago summer. That is essentially the first song that opens

1327
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: the show. I don't want to hear that you miss

1328
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,679
Speaker 1: Sparks Fly. We are getting the speak Now era across

1329
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: with Enchanted. She comes out in the blackgown, gives you

1330
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: the moment we have felt, the speak Now era. She

1331
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: gives you full on reputation. She gives you everything you

1332
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: need from en eighty nine, I don't want to hear

1333
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 1: from nine. We get all the hits. I don't want

1334
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: to hear that you miss the self titled. The self

1335
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: titled as an era is encompassed with Fearless. We don't

1336
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: need the self title. If you're lucky, maybe she'll give

1337
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: you Tim McGraw on that one song she does, which

1338
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: is a different song every single time. Era's toward no notes.

1339
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: I am watching on YouTube and going three times this summer.

1340
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: I don't think so one of your notes. That's one

1341
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: man in Vegas. She's saying our song. And you know what,

1342
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 1: maybe what I hope for everyone out there is that

1343
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: if they are the types of people that want another

1344
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 1: speak now moment, that she gives you sparks fly that

1345
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe you'll even be the lucky one period

1346
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: that didn't even mean to do that. And also get

1347
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: dear John, I think back to December. I would love

1348
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 1: but there's so much acoustic, ready made stuff. Maybe you'll

1349
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: get one. But listen, it isn't the discourse. The point.

1350
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: Isn't the hating the point? You know? Yeah, And here's

1351
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: the thing. I am anti sicko fans. Okay, I believe

1352
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 1: that fandom is dangerous because I believe that fandom is dictatorship.

1353
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,920
Speaker 1: And I believe that intense fandom actually defeats the purpose

1354
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: of even enjoying things, because if you can't actually swarm,

1355
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 1: if you can't talk about and enjoy and like pick

1356
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: apart the things you like and also drag and be

1357
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: a little nasty sometimes like you're all you are is

1358
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: just an unhelpful clabber on in discussion, and then it

1359
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,799
Speaker 1: all gets like labber on, you're a clabber on. Okay,

1360
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't find the word but the word sycophant. And

1361
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: I only have so many words that I say yeah, yeah, yeah,

1362
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, No, totally, totally, And

1363
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: but I'm the kind of person I always have something

1364
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: to say. I always have that. I don't think there's

1365
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: ever been a tailor album or tailor moment in culture

1366
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: that I've not been like, this is great, but this like,

1367
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: I always have something to say with the aerostour, She's

1368
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: out there giving you three hours and fifteen minutes of

1369
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 1: constant entertainment, giving you the whole thing. She said, I

1370
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: know it was difficult to get these seats. I know

1371
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 1: it was difficult to get these tickets. I'm gonna make

1372
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 1: it a moment you'll never forget. I don't want to

1373
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: hear notes on a three hour and fifteen minutes set list.

1374
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: I just don't. Matt. I have a question for you

1375
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: for your three viewings of this performance. Do you have

1376
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 1: a plan for the scale of sobriety to anybriation, how

1377
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 1: you plan to experience each of the three You know,

1378
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: I think that what Bone and I have found recently

1379
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: is that mushrooms are our girl for all three or

1380
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: for one of the three or like or take them

1381
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: an one hour into the three hour set, Like, what's

1382
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 1: the strategy? What was our cocktail when we saw Chromatica?

1383
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: Chromatica was RUMs and cokes. It was RUMs and cokes,

1384
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: and then it was I think we got beers there. Yeah,

1385
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 1: but we also had and what I mean by cocktail

1386
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: was drug cocktail. So we were a little bit I know,

1387
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, I know, but it

1388
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: was rum and coke at the bar like pre game.

1389
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: And then we took like mushroom chocolates like before we

1390
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: got in the car. Yeah, and then once we got

1391
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: there we ordered beers. That was they were holes. That

1392
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: was the full journey. And I would describe the way

1393
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: we felt that Chromatica or should I say on Chromatica

1394
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: as one of the happiest nights in my life. Well

1395
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: then you gotta reapply that serum. Yeah. Yeah, I'm beyond

1396
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 1: excited for this. Like, and we haven't talked about Aerostaur,

1397
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: but it I've been watching the YouTube videos. It looks

1398
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 1: so fun. Wait, Bowen, was that what you thought Matt

1399
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: was gonna do? Was that where you thought he was going?

1400
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: He was gonna talk about the Gwyneth's trial. I thought

1401
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, new episode. Start from here.

1402
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: Trial trial is its own episode like that to the

1403
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: Gills with the Gwyneth trial was such it was like

1404
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: lost half a day skiing, well, I lost half a

1405
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: day sking what was your name? Christen? Christ I was

1406
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: gonna say. I was gonna say, Kristen, you skied into

1407
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: my fucking back. Is the new from Aaron Brockovich, That

1408
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: asshole faston my fucking nap. You ski directly into my

1409
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 1: fu bang back. What a legend. It was unbelievable to consume.

1410
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 1: And it never stopped, like the hits kept coming all

1411
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: day when she was on trial. And I don't think

1412
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: it's over right, like I think it's currently maybe maybe,

1413
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: but it's the apple. Martin hasn't yet been called to

1414
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: the stand. They will live forever in our hearts. It

1415
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: will live. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that it's

1416
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 1: happening that they allowed cameras in the courtroom. I'm grateful

1417
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 1: they didn't inflict those courtroom sketch artists on us. No, no,

1418
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: we don't want to see Gwyneth dune and wax pass

1419
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: stelt chalk. She I don't think she did. I think

1420
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,639
Speaker 1: she wanted the cameras in there. Yeah good. I think

1421
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: she said, everyone looking, how ridiculous this is. She knows

1422
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 1: her audience, she knows how to play to them. Unbelievable.

1423
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: But wow, I understand why you thought that. Bow And

1424
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: it really shouldn't have been that. But I have to say,

1425
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: like people discussing what they're missing from the aerostore of

1426
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 1: a three hour, fifteen minute performance, I'm like, you, guys,

1427
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:27,799
Speaker 1: come on, she can't do the full discography. She cannot,

1428
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:29,600
Speaker 1: All right, So, bow and Yang, are you ready for

1429
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: your I don't think so, honey. I am okay, this

1430
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: is Bowen yangs. I don't think so, honey. His time

1431
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 1: starts now. I don't think so, honey. A bookmark made

1432
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: of metal, Oh you mean a nice you mean a

1433
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: switch blade? I was reading I've been reading very recently,

1434
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: including with Ari's book, with a metallic bookmark that I'm

1435
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: not going to name the company that makes them, but

1436
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: they might as well have been Lockheed Martin, because these

1437
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: are weapons that can kill. These our weapons that can

1438
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: take lives. And I had many close calls with this

1439
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,679
Speaker 1: blade of a bookmark, and I said enough, I posted

1440
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 1: in the hotel trash bin, which is we've discussed on

1441
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,759
Speaker 1: this podcast. Those hotel trash kins are too small to realize.

1442
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: This is a sharp spin. This is for needles. This

1443
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 1: is for bookmarks that are knives. And if you're making

1444
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:25,440
Speaker 1: bookmarks with that are metallic, there are going to be casualties.

1445
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: Someone's going to die and there will be consequences period.

1446
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: Trust trust you will be done with blocking Martin, stop

1447
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: it with these bookmarks. Any company that's making metallic bookmarks

1448
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 1: is locking. Did TSA let you through with that? Somehow?

1449
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: It was in my carry on? And know it's like,

1450
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: how is this? I can kill someone with this? I

1451
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 1: will kill someone with this. This is going to Cuba,

1452
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,879
Speaker 1: Jesus in a war zone. You could like perform surgery

1453
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 1: with it. That's a scalpel owen Hunt probably performed surgery

1454
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: that I'm I guess you don't watch Gray's Anatomy Me. No, no,

1455
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: not even during the Golden Age when it actually was prestige.

1456
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: I actually did not. I am so starry to disappoint

1457
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 1: you as a Pacific Northwesterner. I know, I know, I know,

1458
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:24,440
Speaker 1: I watched Portlandia. Does that count as a Pacific Northwest show, Yes, desolutely?

1459
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 1: Is that from an earlier era at Twin Peaks? Also?

1460
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: You know, yes, oh yeah, isn't X Files around that area?

1461
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: I mean, I watched it when I was a child,

1462
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:36,479
Speaker 1: but I don't remember where it was set. I feel

1463
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: like X Files would make more sense to be in

1464
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: set in like DC, right because they're dealing with sensitive

1465
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 1: information those the later seasons. Okay, I will say I

1466
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: did try to watch X Files once from the beginning,

1467
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, at a different time, it was different.

1468
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 1: But they still be making them all, right, do they really? Yeah?

1469
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: There's like every now and then they'll be like an

1470
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: X Files movie and everyone's like, oh great, and then

1471
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: like that. I guess I don't think there's been one

1472
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: for a while. They're not okay, Yeah, I don't know

1473
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 1: if that's true. Every once in a while, like in

1474
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: two thousand and one and two thousand and five, I

1475
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, like constantly always in the news,

1476
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 1: it's like and the new X Files movie is right

1477
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: around the corner, and I'm always like, huh, you're thinking

1478
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: of scream. I think, yeah, that's what it is. Okay,

1479
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: So Ari, this is the most Are you ready for you?

1480
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. I'm ready, I'm ready. Okay,

1481
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: this is Ari Shapiro's I don't think so, honey, A

1482
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: very exciting moment in time, and his time starts now.

1483
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Strangers going out of their

1484
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: way to tell me that I sound sick on the radio.

1485
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 1: If you show up to a party and you feel like,

1486
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't go to this party. I'm a little

1487
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 1: worn out. It's been a rough week. And you get

1488
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: to that party and the host of that party greets

1489
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: you at the door and says, girl, you look tired.

1490
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 1: Do you really want to hear that from the host

1491
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: of your party. No, this is the same thing, but

1492
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 1: coming from strangers. If I'm congested on the radio, girl,

1493
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 1: I know that I am congested on the radio. And

1494
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,639
Speaker 1: unless you were reaching out to actively, Uber Eats, Matsible

1495
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: soup to my house, and no, I am not giving

1496
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,759
Speaker 1: you my home address. I don't need you to inform

1497
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: me of that which I'm already aware. And furthermore, if

1498
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: I am hosting with a cold, I am doing so

1499
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: from a home and you are getting a free product.

1500
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 1: It is public radio. Yes I know you can donate

1501
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: to your local public radio station, but you know ninety

1502
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,799
Speaker 1: percent of listeners do not. I just made up that statistic,

1503
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure it's true. So appreciate what you're

1504
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 1: getting for free, even if you're getting it with a

1505
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: little bit of a raspy cough and a little bit

1506
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: of congestion. Because I know that I'm hosting with a cold,

1507
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: and I don't need you to tell me. I don't

1508
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 1: think so, honey, and that and that's one minute, very

1509
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: well done. Do you get that when you're hosting the

1510
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: podcast with a cold? Do you get readers? Katie's publicist,

1511
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: you sound sick? Thanks, I was unaware. Appreciate the info.

1512
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: What I got recently was it sounds like Matt Rogers

1513
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: has a cocaine problem. Actually, I do kind of appreciate that.

1514
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of hilarious. I was like, I

1515
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 1: literally responded. I was like, I don't have a cocaine problem,

1516
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I have a contained solution. Yeah. Period.

1517
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: And then they were like, oh, well it sounds so.

1518
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 1: I guess you just have a habit that you're on

1519
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: top of them. And I was like, wow, these dms again,

1520
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: I was like I can't believe this. I was like,

1521
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: if you must know, I've been sobbing for months, that's

1522
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: why I sound nasal cocaine. You don't need to say that.

1523
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: It's so wild. I feel like you two could probably

1524
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: relate to that. I felt like, absolutely, I'm aware. I

1525
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: am aware when I sound less than my best and

1526
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: your y'all's noting it for me is not appreciated as

1527
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: you literally had COVID nineteen. I literally had was hosting

1528
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: from home and when people were like, you sound like

1529
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,640
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be on the Arrow's like, no shit, you know,

1530
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 1: I guess I'm kind of like, I'm really happy that

1531
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 1: you didn't get COVID that day. We were in boyfriendship,

1532
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: and I'm really happy you didn't get it. But that

1533
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: makes me feel like I have like limptic COVID. What

1534
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: does that mean My COVID wasn't powerful? Oh oh, I see,

1535
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, My COVID wasn't coming

1536
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 1: out of my body like that girl. You're sad that

1537
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 1: you didn't give someone else COVID. I'm not just someone else.

1538
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: It would have bonded our friendship. It would have cemented

1539
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 1: our meat cute story and then after we went shopping

1540
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: together we got COVID. I know. I was like, I

1541
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: swear I know you have COVID. Now, I was like,

1542
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 1: because I literally I think, oh yeah, I remember. I

1543
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: started to feel awful, like right after and then took

1544
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 1: a test and I was like, oh god, I have

1545
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: to Ari Shapiro that I gave him curled. Nobody was

1546
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 1: surprised to get a text from you saying I have COVID.

1547
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 1: We all know how that New Year's that New Year's

1548
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: trip went. It's like, yeah, well that's what comes of it.

1549
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: Tame though, honestly, were we not on a scale like

1550
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 1: oh that night we were pretty tame? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

1551
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: that's true. Same we had lovely cocktails, yeah, and sushi.

1552
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 1: This was coming off of Omicron. Now this is like

1553
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: still Omicron is still kind of in the air. It

1554
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: was the Winter Surge. Yeah, it was that time. That

1555
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: was when I guess, you know, one million people got

1556
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: it all at once. Yeah, you're one in a million,

1557
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 1: Matt Rogers. You are because you not only didn't get it,

1558
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 1: not only didn't contract COVID that day, but happened to

1559
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: be you. And you've written this incredible book and it's

1560
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,759
Speaker 1: called The Best Strangers in the World and it's stories

1561
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: from a life spent listening, which I think is beautiful.

1562
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We absolutely loved it and we've

1563
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,800
Speaker 1: loved having you. I have loved this conversation the best

1564
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 1: ninety minutes of this entire book tour. That is really hyperbolic.

1565
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Name one person that this was more fun to do

1566
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: than talk to that you sent me to call them?

1567
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, this is absolutely we're messy here. I want

1568
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 1: you to name one person on the tour. I'm gonna

1569
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: just whisper it really quietly, so that with your full throat.

1570
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: But wow, thank you so much. Pick up the book

1571
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: by the audio book. It's a really special one. You're

1572
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: not going to regret. I really was just like, what

1573
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:02,639
Speaker 1: what a Gordon in Merching Greeds? Thank you? Everybody check

1574
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 1: it up and we Bowen Yang and I we had

1575
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: every episode of with a song and it's true say

1576
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 1: it's a cruise. He gave the thumbs up on it.

1577
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear more of that, you'll

1578
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: see the Era's tour. It's the first song, Bye Bye

1579
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 1: Bye