1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, are you welcome 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we are back with 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: part two of our exploration of of architecture in the mind. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: That's right. In our first episode, which we do encourage 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: you to go back and listen to if you have 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: not already, we discussed the natural world, and then we 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: discussed the architectural world, this world of artificial shapes and 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: objects and designs and layouts that that we've made out 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: of that natural world, and in many cases we find 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: ourselves living almost exclusively within those environments. Uh, and the 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: environments of cities especially. Yeah. We discussed studies about the 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: psychological and cognitive impacts of different types of interior spaces, 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: things like uh, color of interior spaces, ceiling height, and 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff like that. Today we're taking a 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: turn into the cursed realm. That's right. So, to best 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: to understand the typical functionality of a healthy brain, scientists 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: often study cases of illness and injury. So perhaps to 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: help us understand better understand the impact of great architecture 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: and uh and even like the different attributes of attributes 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: of every day architecture, we should also turn, uh, you know, 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: away from the world of vaulted cathedrals and pyramids and 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: zigaratts uh uh and instead look at to the dark 25 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: sorcery of architecture, cursed architecture, if you will. By the way, 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: if you do a web search for cursed architecture, you'll 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: find a lot of examples of of terrible, usually quite 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: quite insane home and building designs. Uh. This what was 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: this a Twitter account you shared with me? I think 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: cursed cursed architect or cursed architecture is a Twitter thing. 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: But also if you just look around for like worst 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: renovations and so forth, that there are a number of 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: different websites that will include a host of these photos, 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: a lot of them hosted on like Pinterest or Instagram. 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: But I swear I was looking at some of these 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: less Friday, and I was just I was by myself 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: laughing out loud so hard at them, and sometimes I 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: couldn't even really quite put a finger on why. Yes, 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: but the I know exactly what you mean. I was 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: also laughing really hard at this stuff you sent me. Uh, 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: the one. I love the ones where there is like 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: a ledge that cannot be accessed in any way. Yeah, 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: it's almost like the places where there's like, you know, 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: a room with the high ceiling and then against the 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: wall up above you know where the second floor would be. 46 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: There's like a hallway, but there's there are no stairs 47 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: leading to it. Yes, stairways to nowhere. Um, you know, 48 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: weird weird doors to nowhere or doors in the middle 49 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: of walls, you know, anything where stairs have been have 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: been altered drastically or are a great source of hilarity 51 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: in these shots. And it it's again it's weird to 52 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: try and like figure at exactly why some of these 53 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: are funny, because you know, sometimes people just doing the 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: best with the limitations of an old building, right, an 55 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: already weird layout, say, or an older, larger building that 56 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: has been sliced into apartments. I remember visiting London with 57 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: my wife like fifteen years ago. I think it's staying 58 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, weird old hotel where the first thing you 59 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: did when you entered the room was walked down a 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: flight of stairs. You know, things like things like that. 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: But but then again, like given the limitations of the building, 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: perhaps that was the best way to go about it. 63 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: Oh I I recently stayed in a in a building 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: in Paris with a hilarious staircase. It was like a 65 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: spiral staircase. It wasn't quite a spiral. It was like 66 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: a rectangular spiral staircase. And there was no stair there 67 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: that was flat. I mean it was angled one way 68 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: or another, even outer in and I imagine going up 69 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: those things after after a night out on the town 70 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: might be might be quite perilous. We had a work 71 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: trip we had to do to Chicago once we stayed 72 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: in a hotel. If I'm remembering this correctly, on every 73 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: floor there was a short stairway, stairway to a wall 74 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: going nowhere, going nowhere except to a painting I think, 75 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: like a painting of a creepy fairy woman. Yeah, it was. 76 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: It was weird. So that sort of stuff. There's that 77 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But then there are other examples where 78 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: it's like so clearly somebody just did not care or 79 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: did not have time to care, and did not look 80 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: back to corrected things, where like a toilet can no 81 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: longer close because there's an overhanging the way. You know, 82 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: weird cases where a water faucet comes out over the 83 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: edge of a small sink or does not come out 84 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: far enough to actually empty into the sink. Uh. Some 85 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: of them just had gross implications. I think there was 86 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: one I was looking at that was just like a 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: bathroom with a ton of urinals and like a thick 88 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: shag carpet or yeah, any kind of carpeted bathroom scenario 89 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: is h it is awful. But yeah, I love the 90 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: ones though, where where not only did whoever you know 91 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: renovated this, because clearly there's not really design elements they're 92 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: not not only did they fail, but someone did this 93 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: and thought close enough they just leave right um And 94 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: and this gets back to this idea of design though, 95 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: like there is this ideal version in mind where an 96 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: architect is consulted. Uh, you know, they're they're architects, they're engineers, 97 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: and there's this there's this process of intentional design before 98 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: something is built. But of course, historically and even sometimes contemporarily, 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: that's not always the same. For instance, I was talking 100 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: with a friend of mine recently about how that when 101 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: they were younger, they were you know, they were they 102 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: had this job and they were helping somebody build some buildings, 103 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: and uh, there was just kind of the sense of 104 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: like where we're just gonna throw it up. We're just 105 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: gonna throw up some walls, and you know what goes 106 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: into a building. You gotta have a floor, you gotta 107 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: have walls, roof, you know. Yeah, and and so I guess, 108 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, certainly with older buildings, and it's going to 109 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: vary in different parts of the world. You know, there 110 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: may be less intent in what is being built. It 111 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: may be more about we need a structure at the 112 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: end of the week, let's build a structure. And maybe 113 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: the individuals building and are not not quite you know, 114 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: the craftspeople that the task requires. But it's you know, 115 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: it's one thing to screw up a renovation or to 116 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, moment monumentally fail on a toilet installation. It's 117 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: quite another to actually design and construct an entire building 118 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: or multiple buildings that have a debilitating effect on our 119 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: mental well being. And the world is is full of 120 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: examples in which a stark or a less traditional architectural 121 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: design draws the ire of local inhabitants right often due 122 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: to the fact that it replaced a more traditional building 123 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: and or stands alongside traditional examples. Um, And you can 124 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: pretty much you can. You can drive around any major 125 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: city and you can see that you can see all right, 126 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: traditional building, traditional building, weird modern building, and you can 127 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: be almost positive that at some point, uh, the neighbors 128 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: were upset about this, or maybe are still upset about this. 129 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It seems like every major city, if you 130 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: talk to the locals, they'll have like the one ugly 131 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: building that they hate. Yeah. Uh. And and blogs are 132 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: devoted to this sort of thing as well. Now, for 133 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: my money, I sometimes find this a bit dumb. Sometimes 134 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: someone builds a cool modern home alongside a bunch of 135 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: traditional little boxes, and people with a more traditional taste 136 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: they get bent out of shape over it, And I 137 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: think we have to realize that someone us want to 138 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: live in weird gothic concrete apocalypse bunkers, and that's ultimately okay. Um. 139 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: But then I go back to the McMansion example we 140 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in the first episode, the idea that you know, 141 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: developer comes along and builds a colossal house, as much 142 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: house as as possible in a given a lot, and 143 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: that kind of thing I do find obnoxious. But then again, 144 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: like when somebody comes along it's like, yes, that's it. 145 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: That's the exact amount of house I want, and I 146 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: don't want to mow al on. So to a certain extent, 147 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: some of these concerns are a bit ridiculous to even 148 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: get too wrapped up in it. I mean, it's just 149 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: people's tastes are going to vary. Some people want traditional, 150 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: some people want modern, some people want ultramodern, and some 151 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: people maybe want to piss off the neighbors. Oh sure, 152 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean the spite houses are a whole wonderful thing 153 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: on their own. Uh, we could come back to that, 154 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: but yeah. I mean, I think one thing that's important 155 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: to keep in mind as we go forward and think 156 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: about the subject is the difference between just like our 157 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: esthetic preferences and what actually has psychological effects on people, 158 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: Like the difference between what kind of school building seems 159 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: nice to you versus what kind of school building actually 160 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: has measurable outcomes on children's performance in in their education. 161 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely so, in figuring it out and trying to decide, like, 162 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, how much of it is, uh to what 163 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: ex soon is there's some sort of intrinsically debilitating aspect 164 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: to certain architectural styles or approaches versus this idea of 165 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: just personal taste. One has to visit the topic of 166 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: brutalist dark texture. Brutal soccer architecture emerged out of Switzerland, 167 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: I believe, in the nineteen fifties, was especially popular in 168 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties, and you can find it around 169 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: the world, but especially in the UK, the US, Canada, 170 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: Western Europe and the Eastern Bloc and in UM the 171 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: former Soviet Union, and generally with brutalist architecture, you're dealing with, um, 172 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, stark, imposing geometric designs built with lots of concrete. Uh. 173 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: It is often stark, and some of what's classified as 174 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: a brutalist I see as as as beautiful, creative or 175 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: even evocative. Uh you know some some of them the 176 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: designs feel very just ultra modern in in a way, 177 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: or sometimes ultra modern kind of like a retro fashion, 178 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: you know. Um. Other examples are are harder for me 179 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: to love. But again, your mindleage is going to vary 180 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to brutalist architecture. A lot of what's 181 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: most recognized in brutalist architecture are these large surfaces of 182 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: exposed concrete, and in fact that's where the name comes 183 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: from the name of brutalist architecture, does not come from 184 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: it somehow being brutal, like a like a brutality in 185 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat? Is that a thing? Brutality? Okay, you're the 186 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: m K expert here um, But no, it comes from 187 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: the phrase betem brute, which means raw concrete. And that's 188 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: because he has very often has these large raw concrete features. 189 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: One example I think we mentioned in the last episode 190 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: is Boston City Hall, which I think is, you know, 191 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: one of the most famous brutalist structures, which personally, I 192 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: think is extremely esthetically pleasing. I like it a lot, 193 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: though I know a lot of people hate it. It's 194 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: apparently just a controversial building. I was saying, one of 195 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: the things I like about it is um, at least 196 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: from some angles of the building, there are ways that 197 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: it has sort of like a variable structure that can 198 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: be like horizontally uh permeated, but then sort of spreads 199 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: out as it goes up. And in a way to me, 200 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: it is a concrete structure that sort of mimics a forest. 201 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: Something about it look kind of like organic, like a 202 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: copse of trees that you could walk into. Uh. And 203 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: I really like that about it. Yeah. I look at 204 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: this image of it, and it it defies sort of 205 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: easy identification, Like I look at it and I would 206 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: not be able to turn and necessarily draw it. You know. Um, 207 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: there's something that you it asks you to map it out. 208 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: You know. It feels like an environment of concrete as 209 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: much as you know it is a structure of concrete. Yeah, 210 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: and I think it incorporates some of the elements that 211 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about in the last episode that make for 212 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: good structures, Like it has some pattern and complexity it. 213 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: It has this organic feeling type of variability in the structure. 214 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: It's somewhat looks like trees. Yeah, there's a sort of 215 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: mcs er vibe to it to a certain instant, A 216 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: little bit that too, Yeah, but not in a way 217 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: that makes it functionally confusing, right, but not in a 218 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: way where it seems to break the laws of nature, 219 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: physics or anything. So when when we're when we're dealing 220 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: with architecture of this, I think there are a few 221 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: things we have to to realize. First of all, and 222 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: we'll come back to this later, is that architecture does 223 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: not exist in a vacuum like a building. Uh, even 224 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: just a highly designed building. It is not does not 225 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: exist independent of say, what that building is for, It 226 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: doesn't exist independent of history, etcetera. But another big problem 227 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: is that architecture is an art form, a design medium, 228 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: and a product or practice. It's not just about form 229 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: and function and art since it is in part art 230 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: is not just about making you feel good. I'll admit 231 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: that most of my favorite visual artists have have you know, 232 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: typically not been concerned with making people feel good? Um, 233 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: I think of like Irving Norman or hr Geiger or 234 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: Brugal Bosch. You know, I love these artists and you 235 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: might love them too, But do you want them influencing 236 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: the power of your physical environment? I mean, I suppose 237 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: on some of you do if you're attempted to frame 238 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: a print of it on your wall, But are then 239 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: you But would you inflict it upon the neighborhood which 240 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: you looked at, upon a whole city? Do you want 241 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: to live in a Bosch painting? So I wanted to 242 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: discuss a few examples of unpopular buildings, or buildings that 243 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: at least have been very unpopular with segments of the population. 244 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: One of them, and I would consider this an extreme example, 245 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: is the House of Soviets in Kaliningrad located UH in 246 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: Kaliningrad Oblast, an exclave of Russia on the Baltic Sea. 247 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: And this is a historically Prussian area, but again is 248 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: it was part of the Soviet Union and is part 249 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: of Russia today. The House of Soviets is built on 250 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: the grounds, but not the exact site, of the former 251 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: Konigsberg Castle, which was destroyed during the Second World War. 252 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: But the House of the Soviets, built in the seventies 253 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: does not look like a Teutonic castle. Uh. Instead, it 254 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: looks It is frequently described as looking like the head 255 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: of a giant robot that has been buried up to 256 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: the neck in the earth. It looks like almost kind 257 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: of a gigantic concrete battery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe huge 258 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: concrete air conditioning unit with eyes. Yeah. It does appear 259 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: to have eyes and kind of a mouth and even horns. Perhaps. 260 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: Some locals have also called it the monster in the past. Again, 261 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: it's the House of Soviets. If you look it up online, 262 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: you'll find plenty of pictures of it. I will note 263 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: that you will find two different versions generally, and that's 264 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: because it used to have more of a concrete dark appearance, 265 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: certainly more brutalist, like clearly brutalist in its appearance, because 266 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: it is often held up as a great example of 267 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: brutalist architecture. But it was in two thousand five, i believe, 268 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: which also coincided with a visit by Vladimir Putin, that 269 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: it was paint painted in new color. So now it 270 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: has this awful blue color, which is even worse because 271 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: it's it's it's not even it's like you're hiding the 272 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: fact or covering up the fact that it's brutalist. You know, 273 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: it's like it's not rack concrete anymore. It is raw 274 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: concrete that has been painted the color of an easter egg. 275 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: So again, critics consider it one of the worst examples 276 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: of Soviet architecture, though it has also been held up 277 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: as a solid example of brutalist architecture, and it's it's also, 278 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: i should add, it's a little unfair to completely judge 279 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: it even based on the older pictures you'll find of it, 280 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: because it has never truly been finished. It is technically 281 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: an unfinished building. It fulfills no purpose as a building 282 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: to this day. Yeah, so um, again, we have to 283 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: realize that architecture is business. Architecture does not exist, uh 284 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. Um, it doesn't exist in its own bubble. History, politics, 285 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: and culture. Color are perceptions of them in its conception. 286 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: The House of the Soviets was perhaps designed to be, 287 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, either symbol of modernity or progress progress, but 288 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: it might also be viewed as a tombstone symbolising Soviet 289 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: or Russian rule over historically German city, that sort of thing. 290 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: Or you might look at it and realize that does nothing. 291 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: There's nothing going on in there because this was never finished. 292 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: This is a testament to an unfinished project. But not 293 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: everything considered brutalist is like a monster level of of 294 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: of of ugliness, etcetera. One I think, great example that 295 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: kind of you know bucks. The stereotype for brutalist architecture 296 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: is Montreal's Habitat sixty seven complex, which was designed by 297 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: Motion Savty, which you need to look up a picture 298 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: this as well, because I can only describe it so well. Uh. 299 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: It looks like a long horizontal row of randomly stacked 300 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: boxes at different angles. Um, and it it's it's quite 301 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: interesting to look at in my opinion, and was actually 302 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: designed with some of the problems of high density living 303 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: in mind, I think it actually looks kind of interesting. 304 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: I mean it, I mean, to me, it's somewhat fulfilled. 305 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: Is that, you know, it has some complexity on the 306 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: exterior surfaces, it has it has a kind of organic 307 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: nature to it. It feels more like a natural environment. Yeah, 308 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: it's basically and I'm this is like a very crude 309 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: summary of it. I'm sure that the the the architect's 310 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: original words about it. We're far Uh, it's far better 311 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: expression of it. But it's kind of like, if I 312 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: have to live right on top of where someone else 313 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: is living, well, can't I live a little west, little 314 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: sideways or a little little after the little of the right, 315 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: And likewise, does the person above me? Could they maybe 316 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: be a little further back, a little to the side. 317 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: Maybe there's some room in all of this for a 318 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: little courtyards, a little porches. And so it does have 319 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: that kind of zigarot feel. It has this kind of 320 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: it looks kind of like it was made by by 321 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: space age insects. Uh. It turns concrete box living spaces 322 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: into something more like a you know, like a like 323 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: a bush of thorns, which that doesn't sound very inviting, 324 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: but it looks very cool. Actually, yeah, absolutely, um and 325 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: I if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think it was 326 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: mentioned in the book Future Shock, but I think the 327 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: kind of campy television adaptation of Future Shock that was 328 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: hosted by Orson Wells, I think they pictured they used 329 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: images or footage of habitat sixty seven talking about like 330 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: living spaces of the future. Another quick example that sometimes 331 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: brought up concerning brutalist architecture from the nineties seventies. Uh, 332 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: the it's what Naive nev Brown brutalist department in Rowley Way, London, 333 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: which has a kind of terrorist look to it, and 334 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: I think looks quite beautiful. It looks it looks kind 335 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: of like a stadium turned into apartments, you know. Um 336 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: and and I rather like it. But again it's one 337 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: of these where it's not that stereotypical idea of brutalist architecture. 338 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: But again not everyone likes it either. Now a huge 339 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: example of detrimental modern but not brutalist architecture that is 340 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: often brought up was the is what was known as 341 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: the Pruitt Ego Housing complex in St. Louis, Missouri. This 342 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: was built in the nineteen fifties and designed by Minoru 343 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: Yamasaki of a World Trade Center fame, and the complex 344 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: consists of consisted of thirty three apartment blocks, each eleven 345 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: stories high, and uh, you know it, it actually sums 346 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: up a lot of the things that Habitat sixty seven 347 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: was trying to get away from. Like if you look 348 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: at an aerial picture of what this looked like, I 349 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: mean it looked like a graveyard for giants. It's just 350 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: big slabs of apartment buildings with these big empty spaces 351 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: in between. And uh, it's it's just, uh it's it's 352 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: just it's tough to look at. As described by Michael 353 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: Bond in The Hidden Ways that Architecture Affects How You Feel, 354 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: written for BBC Future, the complex quote quickly became notorious 355 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: for their crime squalor and social dysfunction. Critics argue that 356 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: the i'd open spaces between the blocks of modernist high 357 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: rises discouraged a sense of community, particularly as crime rates 358 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: started to rise. As as a result, these bleak, prison 359 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: like slabs of housing were demolished in nineteen seventy two. 360 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: And this is an example that that is often discussed 361 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: when people talk about like what's an example of architecture 362 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: that has a detrimental effect on the people that have 363 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: to live with it, right, that not necessarily may well, 364 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean I don't want to describe ill intentions to 365 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: the architect, but like that is that is not properly 366 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: tuned with the well being of its inhabitants in mind, right, Yeah, 367 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: and it's as Yeah, it's also worth pointing at the 368 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: architect does not have sole power over like where a 369 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: building is constructed or whiant is constructed there. Uh, you know, 370 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: certainly getting into critiques of segregation of course, involving aside 371 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: like this, but yeah, it also just comes back again 372 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: that buildings do not exist in their in their own bubble, 373 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: They don't exist in a vacuum, and they can certainly 374 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: contribute to or antagonize existing social problems. So these are 375 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,239 Speaker 1: just a couple of examples. There are certainly loads of 376 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: ugly and or joyless buildings in cities around the world, 377 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: and we keep building them. Uh. I mean, if you 378 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: look at the current skyline of New York City, you'll 379 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: see the full spectrum. You'll see uh, exciting buildings, nostalgic buildings, 380 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: modern buildings that are quite interesting to look out modern 381 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: buildings that make you a little bit angry to look at, 382 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: and plenty of other buildings that you barely see it 383 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: all because they're they're just so lukewarm that your mind 384 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: cannot even hold them. But again, coming back to something 385 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: we talked about in our first episode, um, the importance 386 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: of having nearby access to green space with natural vegetation. 387 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: Uh there. I mean you kind of can't think about 388 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: the architecture of New York City, or certainly think about 389 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: the architecture of Manhattan without thinking about Central Park. Central Park. 390 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a reason that almost every photo you 391 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: see of Manhattan has something to do. You know. You 392 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: either get the skyline down from below or you're looking 393 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: at part of Central Park. Yeah, or you get a 394 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: shot that has the river in it like that. You 395 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: have to have that that natural element. And moving water 396 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: is another one that is sometimes factored into these these studies, 397 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: like it, can a body of water be seen by say, 398 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: patient's recovering in a hospital, et cetera. All right, on 399 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: that note, we're going to take our first break, but 400 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: when we come back, we will get further into this question. 401 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: Can buildings damage your mental health? Hey, everybody, you know 402 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: it's a sneaky good holiday gift. 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So go to Bomba's dot com slash mind 421 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: Blown today and you'll get twenty off your first purchase. 422 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: That's Bombas dot com b O m b A s 423 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: dot com slash mind blown Bombas dot Com slash mind blown. Alright, 424 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: we're back. So we've been talking about brutalist architecture. Houses 425 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: that are in homes and buildings are architectural structures and 426 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: creations that some may criticize as being ugly or imposing. 427 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: So I would like to imagine imagine that you know, 428 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: you you tell go walk in your own neighborhood and 429 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: suddenly you see that overnight, like the castle from Kral, 430 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: the monster, the House of Soviets, has has emerged in 431 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: your neighborhood. Um, and you might wonder, well, is this 432 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: this is? This may be ugly, I may not like it. 433 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: I may uh have questions about what happened to uh 434 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: you know the park that it that was formerly in 435 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: that space. But but is it going to actually damage 436 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: my health? Is it actually going to have some sort 437 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: of tangible effect on my mental well being? And uh? 438 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: In looking at this, we've discussed some of our sources 439 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: here already. I think I already mentioned Michael Bonds, BBC 440 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: Future two thousands seventeen article The Hidden Ways that architecture 441 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: affects how you feel. But another source I was looking 442 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,239 Speaker 1: at is a piece in The Guardian from sixteen by 443 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: Emily Reynolds titled could bad buildings damage Your mental health? 444 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: Reynolds points to some basic stats about urban living, and 445 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: this came from a twenty ten meta analysis. First of all, UH, 446 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: people living in urban environments in large cities percent more 447 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: likely to experience an anxiety disorder and thirty nine percent 448 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: more likely to experience mood disorders UH. And then Reynolds 449 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 1: also points to a two thousand five study that said 450 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: people who grew up in a city where are twice 451 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: as likely to develop schizophrenia as those who grew up 452 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: in the countryside. Furthermore, a two thousand and eleven Central 453 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: Institute of Mental Health at the University of Heidelberg study 454 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: pointed to a link between urban living and greater stress 455 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: responses in the amygdala and the singulate cortex linked to 456 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: emotional regulation, depression, and anxiety. So this could have a 457 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: lasting effect on brain development and mental illness suceptibility, she writes. 458 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: As Bond points out, this points to the idea that 459 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: quote urban living can change brain biology and some people 460 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: resulting in reduced gray matter in the right dorso lateral 461 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex and the paraguinea anterior signulate cortex, two areas 462 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: where changes have previously been linked to early life stressful experiences. 463 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: Now Reynolds also acknowledges the rather subjective nature of all 464 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: of this, such as, you know, drastically conflicting studies on 465 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: open office spaces like we discussed in our first episode. 466 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, do they promote pro social working or are 467 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: they bad for productivity and well being? Depends on which 468 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: study you consult. Uh. If you consult me, however, I'll 469 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: tell you that that hell is an open space office. 470 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: Now it's the way. But I mean, don't you want 471 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: to collaborate in hell? Don't don't you really get get 472 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: your your Jimmy's uh collaborating with the other imprisoned souls. No, 473 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: I mean I take a more of a Dickensian view 474 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: of hell. Where the hell is where you experience the 475 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: chain that you forged in life. It's not about sharing 476 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: your chain with other people. But of course, things like 477 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: this or it's often a careful balance, right. You know, 478 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: consider co housing, in which private homes are clustered around 479 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: shared spaces The idea is that unlike dreary apart and towers, 480 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: they can foster a sense of community through shared spaces. Uh. 481 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: In some space studies report this, others those say residents 482 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: can lose their sense of individuality and privacy. Uh. It 483 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: kind of comes into the ore varied demands for a 484 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: natural environment. Right, Sometimes we want a place to hide away. 485 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes we need a place to, uh, you know, delight 486 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: in the sun and share with others. And the natural 487 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: environment tends to provide us such variety. But once you 488 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: you have a like an apartment complex plan in place 489 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: like that is the environment. And I think this is 490 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: again another area where you have to take into account 491 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: the careful balance, uh, you know, among the different types 492 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: of personalities out there, the ups and downs of human moods. 493 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: You might want to stand in the sun, rejoice in 494 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: the sun one day, but then you may need to 495 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: hide in the shadows on another. And as just the 496 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: ups and downs of life. Sure. Reynolds also quotes Layla McKay, 497 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: director of the Center for Urban Design and Mental Health, 498 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: whose think tank has tackled complex nature of this problem. 499 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: H And you know, try to figure out what are 500 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: some what are what are some basic tac comes we 501 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: can we can acquire from it, and she says the 502 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: following are key uh to having a quality architectural design 503 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: UH in a living space. First of all, access to 504 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: nature or green spaces. We talked about that a good 505 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: bit in the last episode. This is just a no 506 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: brainer and just it just ties into to study after 507 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: study after study. Also, she stresses public spaces that facilitate 508 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: physical activity and encourage social interaction. Oh yeah, this is, 509 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: for example, one thing people have talked about in the 510 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: history of city design when cars became ubiquitous and cities 511 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: suddenly that streets were no longer a place where people 512 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: would gather and meet and talk, but instead there were 513 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: places that were introversible because they were fast moving vehicles 514 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: going back and forth all the time. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, 515 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: it just needs to be a place where we can 516 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: move around and interact with people if we want to. Now, 517 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: another thing, she stresses living and working in spaces that 518 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: feel safe, which on one hand is obvious. We don't 519 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: want to live or work somewhere where we do not 520 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: feel safe, But that can apply to a lot of things. 521 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: You know, you can certainly apply that to say, a 522 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: whole neighborhood layout, but you can also apply to things 523 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: like in our own building, the building in which you 524 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: and I work. There is our office and then there 525 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: is an extremely long, largely featureless hallway that goes to 526 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: the elevator bank. It's sort of a John Carpenter hallway. 527 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: I often think, when watching people walk down and ahead 528 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: of me, that there should be a Carpenter soundtrack, kind 529 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: of a doom doom me me, Me, Me me Yeah. 530 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that the whole way that 531 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: hallway makes me personally feel unsafe or in danger, but 532 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: it is unnerving and I feel like it. It does 533 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: mess with my my perceptions a little bit about potential threats, 534 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: you know, like like if someone else is coming down 535 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: that hallway and I don't want to interact with them, 536 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: I have no choice. I'm just I'm on a train 537 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna walk past them, and it makes me 538 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: feel weird. It makes me want to a void that 539 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: hallway because on some level I don't feel safe there. 540 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: Maybe I feel nine percent safe there, but I would 541 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: rather feel safe, if possible, in the building in which 542 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: I work. No, I mean, you're what you're saying sort 543 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: of connects to what I mean. It feels like a 544 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, follow the yellow line and escape from New 545 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: York kind of hallway. I'm also reminded a friend of 546 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: mine was telling me about this um the Atlanta based 547 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: neo futurist architect John Portman, who is generally best remembered 548 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: for very large, impressive atriums in hotels, which they that 549 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: this was also something that was fairly controversial because you 550 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: walk into a big hotel and then someone would look 551 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: up and say, look at all this wasted space. This 552 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: is not how you build a hotel. Hotel was supposed 553 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: to be. Uh, you know, wall to wall rooms, seeing 554 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: you get to get the maximum out of the space 555 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: and uh, and that's certainly not what you find in 556 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: his in his his buildings, these are the sort of 557 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: atriums that you'll sometimes find, uh in science fiction films 558 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: where they they've clearly filmed it in a in an 559 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: enormous atrium in a hotel. I tend to think these 560 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: things look really cool. Yeah, I love them as well. 561 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: They are very This kind of design is very much 562 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: about the interior world, however, and some apparently criticized John 563 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: Portman for using like internal halls and the kind of 564 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: tunnels to connect buildings to one another rather than using 565 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: open areas and exposure to nature even but that does 566 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: make me wonder if there was true nature to expose 567 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: people too, or if it was a situation where you're 568 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: cutting them off from like a dreary street. Yeah. Well, 569 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: and one thing I like, you know, in in some 570 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: of these big buildings like hotels that have large atriums, 571 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean sometimes they will have vegetation within the atrium, 572 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: having like trees inside there, which is great. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, 573 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: There's certainly ways to bring nature into an indoor environment. Um, 574 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: and some are very extreme. Like I'm reminded of the 575 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: the oprus Land Hotel in Nashville, Tennessee, where they have 576 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: that the one that's got the rainforest. Yeah, it's like 577 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: island running. It has the big, big Remember I went 578 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: there when I was a kid. I loved it. Yeah, 579 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: because it's also kind of like going to um really 580 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: Wonka's chocolate factory. I think I remember believing it possible 581 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: that I could catch a poisoned dart frog the sou 582 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: in the In this article by by Reynolds, Reynolds points 583 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: to a frequently studied example Barbican estate in London. So 584 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: this is a brutalist development of terrorist blocks and towers 585 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: built from the nineteen sixties through the eighties, and it's 586 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: it's barely frequently criticized for all the normal reasons people 587 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: criticize brutalist architecture, but McKay points out that it actually 588 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: checks off all the boxes that we mentioned above, you know, 589 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: the nature in the green spaces, the public spaces, uh, 590 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: living and working in spaces that feel safe, etcetera. Uh. 591 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: They do mention, however, that darkness is sometimes a luxury 592 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: in in a place like this, which is also interesting 593 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: to consider, coming back to that idea that sometimes you 594 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: want the shadows, sometimes you don't want the wide open spaces. 595 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: And uh and certainly, I mean I I've certainly lived 596 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: in places where I feel like there's just way too 597 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: much light pollution and it's kind of hard to find 598 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: that dark corner in which to actually just sleep at night. Still, 599 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: one of the I think the keys here is this. 600 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: All of this suggests that a building can be ugly 601 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: and still be good for mental health, but the design 602 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: is still key. I think likewise, it sounds like it's 603 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: very possible to have an outwardly built a beautiful building 604 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: that is would be depressing to live within. Oh well, 605 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: this goes with something that we were talking about the 606 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: Sarah Williams Goldhagen emphasized in her book that we discussed 607 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: a little bit in the last episode. It was that, um, 608 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: you know, architects often end up thinking most of all 609 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: about the overall form of buildings, you know, like the 610 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: broad sort of like shape and profile of it. But 611 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: that in fact, for people's direct enjoyment of buildings and 612 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, the their their emotional reactions to buildings, what 613 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: are actually more important are smaller scale things like surfaces 614 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: and materials and textures and features. So I think it's 615 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: possible you could actually have a building that a lot 616 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: of people would look at the overall form of from 617 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: the outside and think it's ugly, but it might be 618 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: a better place to live in in terms of interior 619 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: surfaces and features and that kind of thing. In addition 620 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: to the major points we were just talking about with 621 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: like access to green space and social interaction spaces and 622 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, the health advantage of having access to 623 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: a scenic environment. Reynolds also points out that neglected environments 624 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: contribute to mental ill health, making us feel unsafe and 625 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: they may also quote contribute to anxiety and persistent low mood. Uh. 626 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: That's from a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study 627 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: by Jackson at All and others have pointed to the 628 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: signs of social ills such as graffiti and vandalism as 629 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: potentially contributing to this as well. So I think we 630 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: have to be careful not to veer directly off into 631 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: the like the broken windows the aory of policing in 632 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: criminal behavior right. Well, A lot of graffiti is fantastic, 633 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: and there are there are great graffiti artists. There are 634 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: parts of Atlanta that are known for their graffiti that 635 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: uh it, you know, provides a beautiful kind of character 636 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: to the place. There have been some fabulous public art 637 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: programs that have been aimed at at bringing like large 638 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: scale murals to particularly areas with problems as an attempt 639 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: to just kind of like beautify things and basically have 640 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: the beneficial side of these effects we're talking about work 641 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: their way on the inhabitants, and they they're they're generally 642 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: been very well received. High rise living Reynolds rights might 643 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: seem like a great idea, because of course it can. 644 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 1: It can afford that killer view. Right. You can see 645 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: the river, you can see the park, you can see 646 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: green spaces in the distance, etcetera. Uh, you know what, 647 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: wealthy penthouses deliver this. But then also someone in community 648 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: housing would be able to look out of the river 649 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: as well in a high rise environment. But the flip 650 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: side of this is that locations like this can contribute 651 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: to isolation. It's something where more it's an area where 652 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: more study is needed. But again it shows that you 653 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: can't just have the view of nature. You know, they 654 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: are all these other factors as well. Uh. And if 655 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: your view of nature is coming from an isolated tower, uh, 656 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: it's only going to do so much good, especially if 657 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: you're you're you're not having the social interaction, you're not 658 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: having any of these other boxes checked off for you 659 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: by the design. And of course this leads us to 660 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: shopping centers and malls, which we might think of them 661 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: as sol draining places, but according to the restorative potential 662 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: of shopping malls ten by Rosenbaum at all, uh, many 663 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: of these actually have quote mentally restorative qualities because think 664 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: about it, they're safe, they're open. Uh. You know, essentially 665 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: there are a lot of them are like large, uh 666 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, enclosed environments, the sort of classic mall um 667 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: which hopefully people are still getting to experience outside of 668 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: just viewings of stranger things and shopping mall. I mean, 669 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: some actually have greenery in them, vegetation, and there they 670 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: may be well maintained. But then the flip side is 671 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: that is that they are also places that are highly controlled. 672 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: And obviously there are places where uh, retailers are using 673 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: all of their tricks to try and control your behavior 674 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: influence your behavior as well, and so that can have 675 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: ultimately an effect on anxiety and other factors. I also 676 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: can't help but imagine, I mean, when you go to 677 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: a shopping place, you're going there to engage with decision fatigue, 678 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,919 Speaker 1: like whatever your mental state is going in. No matter 679 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: how nice the greenery, no matter how cool the architecture is, uh, 680 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: no matter how pleasant the music is maybe uh, you're 681 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: still going to potentially find yourself in that situation where 682 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: like I have no idea what to buy anymore, my 683 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: brain is depleted, and the shopping mall almost by definition, 684 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: provides a lot of buying options, and having a lot 685 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: of buying options often contributes directly to those negative feelings 686 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: associated with shopping exactly, So Reynolds, ultimately, you know rights 687 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: that with increased awareness of mental health issues and more 688 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: work in this design area, quote, buildings and public spaces 689 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: are being designed or at the very least critically analyzed, 690 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: with mental well being in mind. Now. In Michael Bond's 691 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: seventeen piece, it's not maybe that doesn't quite echo as 692 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: much optimism for the present, but does seem hopeful about 693 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,959 Speaker 1: the future, writing the quote, urban architects have often paid 694 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: scantic attention to the potential cognitive effects of their creations 695 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: on a city's inhabitants. But he did point out that 696 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: there's a h every year. The Conscious Cities Conference takes place. 697 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: In seventeen, it took place in London. I read that 698 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen place in New York City, with a 699 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: focus on building resilient communities, healthy child development and parenting, 700 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: reshaping later life, and urban design for mental health. If 701 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: you want to learn more, you can check them out 702 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: at the c c D dot org. That's the Center 703 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: for Conscious Design. Yeah. So, Bond points out that that 704 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: recent studies have used actually wearable devices such as bracelets 705 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: that monitors monitor skin conductivity, a marker of physiological arousal 706 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: and smartphone technology just see how we're responding and where 707 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: we're responding to architecture. And so this makes sense. You 708 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: can strap people up, send them out in the city 709 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: and you can see like what's spiking their activity? Yeah, right, 710 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: where are people walking when they're getting stressed and stuff 711 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: Like do they tend to be walking past this one 712 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 1: horribly ugly featureless building and that's making them more kind 713 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: of uh yeah, the the factor and that's that's exactly 714 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: what they were looking for. Colin Ellard, who researches the 715 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 1: psychological impact of design at the University of Waterloo in Canada, 716 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: is one of the researchers that's using this kind of technology. 717 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 1: And they found that building facades had a huge impact. 718 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: And they specifically pointed out a quote dead zone of 719 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: quote long smoked glass frontage of a Whole food store 720 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: in Lower Manhattan. All Right, so this Whole Foods is 721 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: directly ruined people's quality of life's story, not so not solely, 722 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: but yeah, so they walk past this storefront with the 723 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: frosted glass and like the you are detecting physiological signs 724 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: of stress and anxiety and unhappiness. Yeah, and it's not 725 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: because it's like crazy weird architecture. It's not brutalist, it's 726 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: not it's not covered with graffiti or anything. It's not 727 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: like you feel unsafe. It's just it's just there and 728 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: it's dreary, and it's it's like what you see everywhere. 729 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 1: It's it's been pointed out as one of the potential 730 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: threats of of you know, the loss of you know, 731 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: mom and pop stores for sure, but also just places 732 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: with individual identity. As street level at any rate, cities 733 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: turn more and more into you know, chain chain restaurant here, 734 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: and here's the big box store here. And there's the 735 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: sameness to everything and the lack of variety. Uh, you know, 736 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: it takes us out of the sort of variety that 737 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: we would need in the natural world and would also 738 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: historically find in a more vibrant city environment. Certainly, Like 739 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: that's what you think of when you think of of 740 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: walking the streets of New York, right right, that's the cliche. 741 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: Not seeing a block of of storefront for you know, 742 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: whatever your big box store happens to be. No, you 743 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: you're expecting to see weird thing here, weird thing here, 744 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: strange little store here, Uh, something up and coming over here. 745 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: You know, it's we want that kind of experience. We 746 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: want the same sort of height through the wilderness experience 747 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: even in our urban environments. Of course, again we're living 748 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: in a time though where you know, there's more and 749 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: more consciousness about mental health though, and we have decades 750 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: now of of studies about the impact of design and 751 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: things we can do to to to help to have 752 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: like a you know, an actual benefit on our mental 753 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: well being. For instance, when it comes to social interaction 754 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: human interaction. UH. Sociologist William White was a key advocate 755 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies of design that pushed people closer 756 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: together and encourage social interaction, and one of his colleague, 757 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: Expond Rights, founded the Project for Public Spaces, which made 758 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: key moves such as deploying benches to make certain public 759 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: spaces more inviting to the public. Put some benches there, 760 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,879 Speaker 1: make it seem like people are supposed to be here, 761 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: and then by being here, they will interact with one 762 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: another UH in various ways. And another important aspect of 763 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: city design, brought up by Kate Jeffrey, a behavioral neuroscience 764 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: scientists at the University College London, is that more. The 765 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: more lost you feel in a city, the more out 766 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: of sync, isolated and potentially afraid you feel. And this 767 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: is also important inside of a building. So when you 768 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: walk into the building, do you feel lost? Do you 769 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 1: feel like you're in a maze, Because that's not good, 770 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: because the interior of space should be more like a labyrinth, 771 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: the place that is maybe complex, that is interesting to 772 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: behold and experience, but there is not a sense of 773 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: anxiety about where you are going. When you enter a 774 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,040 Speaker 1: true labyrinth, you will always go to the sin for 775 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: the labyrinth and back out again. You will always go 776 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: exactly where you need to go. A maze is the 777 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: edifice in which you become lost and possibly consumed by 778 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: a minotaur. I don't think I was aware of that distinction. 779 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: I've just used them. So they're often used interchangeably, even 780 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: by the the best of writers, So I don't. I 781 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: try not to get a bit out of shape when 782 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm reading something and they say maze when they need labyrinth, etcetera. 783 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: It's not as elegant to say pans maze, pants maze. 784 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: It's not as good. Labyrinth feels more appropriate. All Right, 785 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,439 Speaker 1: we're gonna take one more break. But when we come back, 786 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: we're going to explore the world of hostile architecture. Than alright, 787 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: we're back now, Joe, you're the one who turned me 788 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: onto this idea of hostile architecture. I was, I was 789 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 1: blissfully unaware of this. Well, it's not something I ever 790 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: had a deep knowledge about. It's just something i'd I'd 791 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: seen in a few places, and I, you know, I 792 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: was just reading a little bit about it online. The 793 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: idea that sometimes architectural signs that you would use us, say, 794 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: defending a fortress against an invading army, can be turned 795 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: inward and can be used within a society itself, even 796 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: within the city itself, in ways that are both interesting 797 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: and sad. Right, yeah, using these features against residents of 798 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: the city itself, especially the homeless. So one of the 799 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: older examples of this sort of thing, uh is probably 800 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: the flint cone. A number of you've seen this. I'm 801 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: going to describe it, and a lot of you will go, Okay, 802 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. This is just deployed 803 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century in Norwich, England, along with other 804 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: designs to curb public urination in the city because basically, 805 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: men walking about through the city would need to urinate, 806 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: and having few options, they would turn to you know, 807 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: a handy, dimly lit corner in the exterior of a 808 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: stone building, and that's where they would peet. But such 809 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: urination course creates an odor and it even damages materials. 810 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: So building oders employed a few different strategies. Again it's 811 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,799 Speaker 1: public urination, such as gates around such little corners and 812 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: nooks and crannies, or even more drastically filling those corners 813 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: in with brick and mortar, sometimes in the shape of 814 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: a cone. Right, So where you would have a recess 815 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: that would normally just be a little corner where you 816 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: could face into the corner and no one would see 817 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: what you were doing with the front of your body. Instead, 818 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 1: there's a you know, human height shaped cone of bricks 819 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: and stuff. Right, that's gonna guess cause your urine to 820 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: flow back towards your feet, right, But also just doesn't 821 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: give you any privacy, Whereas normally this corner would have 822 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,919 Speaker 1: allowed privacy. Now there is no way to be private there. Right. 823 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 1: Of course, you might not have much of an issue 824 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: with this, right, you're probably not a huge fan of 825 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: public urination. But here's the thing. It does not address 826 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: the route problem. There are people in the city with 827 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: nowhere to pee. Public toilets were not readily available. Transforming 828 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: these corners didn't actually solve the problem. It just redirected 829 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: it to other places, like other other corners that didn't 830 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: have cones implanted in them, and and it, you know, 831 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: ultimately made life even more miserable for the Norwich wanderers 832 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: who had full bladders. Now, the city eventually made public 833 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 1: restrooms more available, but many of these structures still remain, 834 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: especially the cones, because they are rather permanent in their construction. 835 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: Sure now, lack of a place to leave oneself can 836 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: still be a problem for the urban homeless today, though 837 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: this is a problem that is addressed to a large 838 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: extent by public restrooms, which are deployed with varying degrees 839 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,799 Speaker 1: of success depending on which city you're looking at and 840 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: where you are in that city. But like just yesterday, 841 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,919 Speaker 1: I was outside our own city zoo and in an 842 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: individual walked up and asked me where the nearest bathroom was, 843 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,760 Speaker 1: And naturally there's one inside the zoo, but that requires 844 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: a membership or a ticket to get into, And I 845 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: said there was one at the instrants to an adjacent park, 846 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: but I wasn't sure if renovations were affecting it. And 847 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: then he said that he tried that one and he 848 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: couldn't get into it. And then my only suggestion was 849 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: said to tell him, well, there's a coffee shop across 850 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: the street. And of course a coffee shop is the 851 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: sort of place where one usually encounters a customers only 852 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: policy for restrooms, and in some areas you even have 853 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: to have a key or the receipt code off of 854 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: receipt to get in there. So the problem still remains. 855 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: The homeless also need a place to sit and to sleep, 856 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: a situation addressed to some extent by shelters and other initiatives. 857 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 1: But what about these public spaces, these green spaces we've 858 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: been discussing that have such a benefit for all of us, 859 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: Like these these places have an important impact on our 860 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 1: mental wellness and UH and certainly access is even more 861 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 1: vital for individuals on the margins who may also very 862 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 1: well be struggling with depression, anxiety, and or mental illness. 863 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: But unfortunately there's often an effort then to prevent the 864 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: homeless from using such areas, and to be fair of 865 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,520 Speaker 1: a public spaces is overrun by homeless individuals that you know, 866 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 1: I guess it can certainly become less desirable for some 867 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: members of society. Uh And but the result is we 868 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,280 Speaker 1: see other examples of what critics have dubbed host aisle 869 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: architecture also known as defensive design in our modern cities. 870 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: And here are just a few examples. First of all, 871 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,879 Speaker 1: park benches with arm rests down the middle right, so 872 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,400 Speaker 1: they the goal there is to make a bench that 873 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: you can sit on, but you can't really lay down on. 874 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: Another one, spikes or bolts installed on stairs or on 875 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: areas of the pavement itself. This is something I've only 876 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: seen photos of. I don't think I've seen this in 877 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 1: in real life, but yeah, just the idea of like, well, 878 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,040 Speaker 1: here's a place where one could lay here's some stairs 879 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: someone could potentially lay on, but we're gonna put spikes 880 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: there instead, which which is a drastic solution. Another one 881 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,919 Speaker 1: gates around various fountains, specifically around the the the edge 882 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: of the lift of the fountain where one might normally 883 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,399 Speaker 1: set uh. The placement of boulders or other objects such 884 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: as bike racks or other structures in place of benches 885 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: or in spots there were previously popular gathering places for 886 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: the homeless. Or here's another one, sprinklers that at least 887 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: allegedly been placed to deter squatters, like in parks. Yeah 888 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,839 Speaker 1: so some of them. And then as far as benches go, 889 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 1: we mentioned the bench with an arm or us down 890 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,320 Speaker 1: the middle. But some of the designs that have been 891 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: utilized are really quite elaborate and you might not even 892 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: recognize their true purpose at first glance, as with the 893 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 1: South Philadelphia Transit authorities, modern chrome ribbed like benches that 894 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: that look cool. They look they look like I said, 895 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: like this weird space curvy rib thing. But as I 896 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: read in What's behind the Uptick and Hostile Architecture by 897 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,239 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Wallace published an architectural digest, the intention here is 898 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,160 Speaker 1: to create benches that are difficult to sleep on. Ye 899 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: they're not flat, They've got these ridges in them that 900 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: will sort of cut into you if you try to 901 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 1: lay down. Yeah. So it's probably a worthwhile exercise, especially 902 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: for anyone out there who uses like public transportation and 903 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,319 Speaker 1: visits urban public spaces. Like the next time you see 904 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 1: a weird bench or even abut a full bench, ask yourself, 905 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,399 Speaker 1: could Could I sleep on this? Could I lay down 906 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: and sleep on this? Could I even set up and 907 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 1: sleep on this? And then what does that say? Um? 908 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: Another example, London's concrete Camden benches have often been criticized 909 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: for this. Uh and you can there just again this 910 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of like weird bench design that is like you 911 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 1: look at it and you ask yourself, could I lay 912 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,879 Speaker 1: on that? And the answer is not not comfortably at all. 913 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 1: And you also see variations of this sort of design 914 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to anti skateboarding uh features as well 915 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 1: that have been retro fritti fitted on things I've noticed 916 00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: the others I've never noticed anti skateboarding stuff. Yeah, I 917 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: wonder what that's like. Um. Basically, it's like like little 918 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: like metal ridges, metal bars, things that are added to 919 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,879 Speaker 1: and I don't have any skateboarding um lingo in my brain. 920 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but the thing just call everything ali the okay, 921 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,360 Speaker 1: the thing where they ali along the side of the 922 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: like the yeah or the bench or the concrete by 923 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,720 Speaker 1: the fountain. Put a metal are somewhere there to disrupt 924 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: such activity, you can't ali. Yeah. Uh. So obviously, hostile 925 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: architecture has angered quite a lot of people, inspiring social 926 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: media campaigns and even sticker and graffiti efforts against the 927 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: features because these effects are by their very nature, uh, 928 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,400 Speaker 1: not only anti homeless, but just anti human. As critics 929 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 1: point out, you know what about older members of society, 930 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,000 Speaker 1: homeless or not, who simply might need to sit down 931 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 1: more often? What if they, they or anyone else you know, 932 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: has a health episode you need to lay down, But oh, 933 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,840 Speaker 1: you can't lay there because there's spikes coming out of 934 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,879 Speaker 1: the concrete for no reason. Like you're like you live 935 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 1: in a Mortal Kombat game. Yeah, there's a really depressing 936 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: lack of compassion evident in those though at the same time, 937 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: I mean, to be fair to I guess the people 938 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: who would install things like that. I mean, like, the 939 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,600 Speaker 1: problem is that there, you know, there are people without 940 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,840 Speaker 1: a place of their own to to lie down or 941 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: to sleep or something like that. And like the one 942 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 1: owner of a building or something can't individually all of 943 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: the problem, right, give every one a place to live, uh, 944 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,160 Speaker 1: And so like they're just forced to individually deal with 945 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,400 Speaker 1: their own problem, which is that people keep laying across 946 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,919 Speaker 1: the doorstep of my building. But it's sad to see 947 00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: that problem dealt with by just like trying to make 948 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 1: things even harder for the people who end up sleeping there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 949 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: certainly to your point that the individual store owner is 950 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,640 Speaker 1: not going to solve the wicked problem of homelessness. We 951 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: call it a wicked problem because it's something with a 952 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: number of different factors involved, and it's very difficult to 953 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: address and to solve. It's the kind of effort that 954 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: people devote their lives to trying to deal with. Oh, 955 00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,240 Speaker 1: but I mean, I think there there are clearly things 956 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: you can do to reduce homelessness. I think I think 957 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,200 Speaker 1: the evidence is there, certainly. But but in terms of 958 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: the individual store owner, they can't. They can't do it themselves. 959 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:49,840 Speaker 1: But you know, ultimately that the issue is, you know, 960 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: benches that you can actually sleep on are not going 961 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: to fix anything. But but neither does the presence of 962 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,279 Speaker 1: hostile architecture, even though it may allow some people to 963 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 1: better ignore the underlying problems in society. And and that's 964 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000 Speaker 1: the thing, like it's about making Ultimately, it makes the 965 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 1: problem less visible two segments of the population and without 966 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 1: actually solving the actual problem. Yeah, it wouldn't make any 967 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: sense to to blame the the homelessness problem to begin 968 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,480 Speaker 1: with on the individual store owner or homeowner or whatever 969 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: that's putting these measures in place. But I mean it 970 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: does seem like, I don't know, this is the kind 971 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,240 Speaker 1: of thing where you really need collective action, the action 972 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 1: through large nonprofits or through the government to try to 973 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,160 Speaker 1: intervene to solve homelessness more systemically and like actually connect 974 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 1: people with places to live, rather than than trying to 975 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: come up with ways to make the problem less visible. Right. Yeah, 976 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,439 Speaker 1: Ultimately I would I would say that metal spikes are 977 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 1: never the perfect answer to any given problem. So we 978 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,879 Speaker 1: we bring all this up not to not to end 979 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: this two part or on a really negative note, but 980 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 1: ultimately again to think about the power of architectural design 981 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,479 Speaker 1: and the power of architectural objects in our environments. Well, yeah, 982 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,040 Speaker 1: and to emphasize again one of the many ways I mean, 983 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 1: this is what we've been exploring throughout these episodes is 984 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,799 Speaker 1: that um is that the designs of cities, and the 985 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: designs of buildings, and the designs of public spaces are 986 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily neutral neutral, not necessarily in a moral sense, 987 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,360 Speaker 1: and not necessarily in uh in a public health sense. 988 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,280 Speaker 1: They're not just a matter of aesthetic preferences. The design 989 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,560 Speaker 1: of buildings in public spaces in many ways have public 990 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:37,759 Speaker 1: health outcomes, they have cultural outcomes, and they have moral implications. Yeah. Absolutely, 991 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,799 Speaker 1: And we live in these environments. So if it is 992 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: an environment where there are spikes on the stairs, I 993 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: mean imagine like growing up seeing that every day and 994 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,400 Speaker 1: that being is part of your world and you have 995 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,360 Speaker 1: to like and asking like why are there spikes on 996 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: the stairs, mom, And they're like, oh, that's so people 997 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,920 Speaker 1: don't set on the stairs. That is a weird message 998 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,719 Speaker 1: to drive home. So hopefully these episodes we've explored, you know, 999 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: the various ways that that's certainly design can make an 1000 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,880 Speaker 1: environment and artificial environment uh more imposing and more negative, 1001 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,799 Speaker 1: but also the ways that they can make make it 1002 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,720 Speaker 1: more positive and ultimately more in line with the natural 1003 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,560 Speaker 1: world that we evolve to thrive in. Totally. My my 1004 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 1: take is less spikes, more trees. Yes, less spikes, more trees. 1005 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 1: Big atriums are great, um as long as they don't 1006 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,480 Speaker 1: have spikes all over. I don't know, it's some atrium 1007 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 1: type type spikes can be cool, like like, especially if 1008 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 1: they're like spikes within the vegetation. I want to go 1009 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 1: back to Mortal Kombat and there was that one stage 1010 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: in the second game where they had the spikes on 1011 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: the ceiling and you would punch someone up into the spikes. 1012 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,319 Speaker 1: But that's a much better design because if someone can 1013 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,279 Speaker 1: still lay on the floor, it's fine, You're not. No 1014 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,760 Speaker 1: one's gonna trip over something and fall on the spikes. 1015 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: Much better design. Let's let's do a finishing move on 1016 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,440 Speaker 1: this episode. Yes, we're gonna have to call it here obviously. 1017 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,279 Speaker 1: You know, there's so much we could have talked about additionally, 1018 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: concerning architecture and the different style us of architecture, the 1019 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,480 Speaker 1: way different things impact our mind from you know, you know, 1020 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,600 Speaker 1: sharp angles to spirals, uh and so forth, but we 1021 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: only have so much time. In the meantime, we'd love 1022 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 1: to hear though from it. Certainly any architects out there 1023 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,439 Speaker 1: that happened to be listening to the show, or people 1024 00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,439 Speaker 1: who have experience with any of the architectural styles, features, 1025 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: or specific sites that we've mentioned on these episodes. We 1026 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: we invite listener feedback all the time right in. We'd 1027 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,600 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. In the meantime. If you 1028 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,520 Speaker 1: want more stuff to blow your mind, head on over 1029 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your mind Dot com that's the 1030 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,600 Speaker 1: mother ship. That's where you'll find the episodes. 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