1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Quody bags, but Joseph's gotten more. The worst job I 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: ever had was working in a grocery store. I hated it. 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: I hated every single day I went to work. And 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: I think probably one of the reasons I hated that 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: job so much is, first off, it was labor intensive. 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: I was very young, so they had me on the 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: front and bag. This is back when people actually bagged 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: groceries and took them out to your car for you. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: I hated that, and I'm not a big people person, 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: so you know, it wasn't my thing back then. And 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: then I hated having to come in at three point 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning to unload trucks. I didn't mind 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: so much doing the stocking. I just hated unloading the trucks. 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: I really did. And my god, the managers horrible, horrible. 15 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: But that was many decades ago, and here I am now. 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: But you know, I want to talk about a case 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: today that actually originates by a relationship that was formed 18 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: in a Kroger supermarket. I guess love bloomed, but unfortunately 19 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: it ended in homicide. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 20 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: his body backs. Did you ever have stock shells? Dave 21 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: get Did you ever have one of those jobs? 22 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: Joe, I am one of those people who I had 23 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: an idea of what I wanted to do with my life, 24 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: what career path I wanted to be on, and then 25 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: found a way to begin doing it at the age 26 00:01:59,480 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: of fourteen. 27 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: That was to be on radio. 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: And I actually wanted to be on the radio doing 29 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: baseball games, calling them, you know, yeah on first and second, 30 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: no outs, bottom of the ninth, Joseph Scott Morgan steps in. 31 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to do and with yeah, because 32 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: I didn't think playing ball was going to work out 33 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: for me. So anyway, I did that. And I've actually 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: I said it many times. I've actually never had a 35 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 2: real job. I've worked in radio or in my entire life. 36 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: So well, I got to tell you my. 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: Goal when I was a little boy, I wanted to 38 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: be an archaeologist. I always that was because I love history. 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: I do like I love digging in the dirt, which 40 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: I got to do, you know, helping helping forensic anthropologists 41 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: throughout the years. They called me a professional when I 42 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: go out there, cease being a death investigator and I 43 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: became a shove leaner, which means that if you're working 44 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: around forensic anthropologist slash archaeologist, you're there to do their 45 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: scut work. And so I'd be taking the shovelfuls of 46 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: soul and putting it into the sifter and what you 47 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: called it, a shovel leaner, A shovel leaner. Yeah, yeah, 48 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: so okay, most of the time that's applied to people 49 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: from the dot, you know, they're leaning on shovels. Yeah, 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I was. I was a professional shovel leaner. But yeah, 51 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: not too many roads lead away from the local pigly 52 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: wiggly to a career in archaeology. So unfortunately I had 53 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: I had to start, I had to start out there. 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: But it put gas in my car, right, you know, 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: so I am grateful for it, but it was it 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: was probably I preferred. I really did prefer working in 57 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: the moork to work in the grocery store. Yeah, I 58 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: really did. 59 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: I respect people that have those jumps, yeah, because I 60 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: know that it's like, I don't know what it's like 61 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: clocking in, and I'm thankful for that. I worked hard 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: to not clock in. I worked hard for that. But 63 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: I've admired people who do that, can go in and 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: do something like that day in and day out and 65 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: find satisfaction and and build from it. And in this case, 66 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: we're actually dealing with a young couple. We're talking late teens, 67 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: and they meet at a Kroger and they actually are 68 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: they're in this really lovey dovey stage, the kind where 69 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: people are really infatuated with one another and they're just 70 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: old enough where they're outside of that puppy love you 71 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: get when you're fourteen and fifteen before you can drive, 72 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: and you know, that's a different infatuation than it is 73 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: when you're nineteen twenty years old. You're out of high 74 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: school and you're in college or moving forward with your 75 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: adult life. And so when you're in that infatuated state, 76 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: it can kind of be sickening for those who are 77 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 2: not in that state. 78 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: Come on, you know it, just stop. 79 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: That's where they were, and that's where this couple, Andrea 80 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: Ilberg and her boyfriend Casey Grondin, that was where they 81 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 2: were in their relationship. They were in that lovey dovey 82 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: I can't stand to be a minute. You know, where 83 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: they'd like go to sleep holding the phone kind of thing, 84 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 2: you know, right right on their pillow. 85 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: That. 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, So anyway, for those. 87 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: Well hey, wait, hang on now, I remember falling asleep 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: on the phone talking to Kim when we were in 89 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: that dating phase. 90 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 3: And it. 91 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: You know, now she just says, you know, I'll fill 92 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: her elbow and she said, do you hear anything I said? 93 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: Are you awake? You know it's gone from you know, 94 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: that was so sweet to you know, are you listening? 95 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, it changes, like you said, man, 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: it changes over time and it goes through phases like that. 97 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: But I don't think this relationship necessarily worked out the way. 98 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: Maybe both individuals planned for it too. They were kind 99 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: of a strange And by the way, this this actually 100 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: happened a loath these many years ago, to the east 101 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: of Flint, Michigan, in a town called Mayfield Township. Sounds 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: very Mayberry like to me. 103 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: You're actually talking about, like, man, what a week and 104 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: a half, two weeks before Thanksgiving twenty eleve and Andrea 105 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: is house sitting for her aunt and uncle. And you know, 106 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: that's one of those things that you know, people do 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: still do, I guess in certain areas, you know, And 108 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: she's there and she's got her boyfriend. Hey, you come on, 109 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: you know, she's like, what nineteen twenty years old and 110 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: he's nineteen, and. 111 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 3: Hey, come on over and let's watch a movie. You know, 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 3: I got the house to myself, come on right, right, Yeah, 113 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: And that was. 114 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: Their plan, and so he's all excited about it. Casey 115 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: is and he gets a message from her saying, you know, no, 116 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: it's off. Don't want to do it. And it was like, 117 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: because he went to the door, I think, didn't He 118 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: go to the home and knocks on the door. She 119 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: doesn't answer. Her cars don't answer. 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't answer at all. 121 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like, I'm at the right address, you know. 122 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: And then he gets a text message from her phone 123 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: that says I'm not going to do it. We're not 124 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: doing this to and so he left and he was 125 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: so disappointed he thought she was breaking up with him 126 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: that he said he went home to his house and 127 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,119 Speaker 2: basically crawled in bedd and cried for three days. Now 128 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: nineteen year old man saying he went home and crawled 129 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: in bed and cried for three days. Gotta be honest, Joe, 130 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: that's not something I would admit to. 131 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: But you know, I don't. I don't think so maybe 132 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: for a couple of hours, I don't know, but not 133 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time like that. Plus all 134 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: that crying leaves you quite dehydrated as well. So I 135 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: just I don't think. I don't I don't see myself 136 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: doing that. And look, I know that you know, these events, 137 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: particularly when you're young, can be absolutely soul crushing. And 138 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: this is another thing. When you're that young, you are 139 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: not sophisticated enough to actually read the room. That you're 140 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: easily fooled. And I think a lot of it. And 141 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: I guess you don't necessarily have to be young to 142 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: have that happen. But when love is involved and you're vulnerable, 143 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, you you know, your heart is like an 144 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: open target, so it can really, you know, it can 145 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: really impact you to a great degree. And of course, 146 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, Dave, what do we always talk about? What 147 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: do we always talk about? Man? And I've preached this 148 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: over and over again relative to suspects, you're going to 149 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: be looking at those intimate partners, you know, in any 150 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: kind of case. So this young man, this young man, 151 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: you know that he's let everybody know that he was 152 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: involved in a relationship. And let me tell you one 153 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: more thing about the grocery store. All right, everybody at 154 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: the grocery store would have known that they were in 155 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: a relationship. They're not like keeping the secret. Families know 156 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: all of this sort of thing. But Dave, I've got 157 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: to tell you this, this takes a dark turn really 158 00:08:59,240 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: really quickly. 159 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: Well, okay, you know what she doesn't all right. I 160 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: want to go back to Casey for just a minute, 161 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 2: because he expected them to have a really nice date 162 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: night and it ends up being she's not there, her 163 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: car's not there at the house, and so in his mind, 164 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: she's breaking up with me because he got a text 165 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: an hour later, you know, and he goes and cries. 166 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: Well, when nobody can get up with her. The last 167 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: text from her phone was to him. He said, it 168 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: wasn't a. 169 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: Normal text from her, and that's kind of what sent 170 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 2: him in the direction he went. 171 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: But the thing is is that. 172 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: When nobody could get up with her the next day, 173 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: her dad was like, we got to find her. You know, 174 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 2: she's not answering her phone, she's not at the house, 175 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: and her car is not here either, so they began 176 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: looking for her right away. It wasn't where I'm trying 177 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: to think of how we go through the expression of 178 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: you got to wait a couple of days, you know, 179 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: before you really start looking. This was pretty quick because 180 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: she was twenty years old, and she was connected, and 181 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: she did have this boyfriend she was really infatuated with. 182 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: So when she's not where she's supposed to be house sitting, 183 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 2: her car's not there, there was an immediate let's go 184 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,599 Speaker 2: find her. Now, my first thought would have been go 185 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: to the house, the house that she's house sitting, and 186 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: go look through that house. But then if her car's 187 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: not there and the door is locked, are you going 188 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: to go in? I don't know, because apparently that wasn't 189 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: their first thought, they being those who decided to look 190 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: for her. But early the next day, her car was 191 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: found abandoned on a nearby road, and that's when when 192 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: they realized her how her car was abandoned, Then we 193 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: need to go look in the house, and that's what 194 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: they did, and they went inside the house and what 195 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: they found was the type of horrific thing you take 196 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: to your grave, you never forget the site that that 197 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: those and I don't know. That doesn't say exactly who 198 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: found her, Joe, and I'm wondering, I'm guessing it had 199 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: to be somebody very close to her. 200 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and immediately, you know, you would call the police. 201 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: Can you imagine the horror that would run through your veins, 202 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: that would make the hair on the back of your 203 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: neck stand up, that would literally crush your soul to 204 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: see this beautiful young woman tied to a chair in 205 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: the basement of her aunt and uncle's home, having sustained 206 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: an execution style gunshot wound to the back of the head. 207 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: You know, I've never had anyone ask me this question. However, 208 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: I will give you the answer to the question that 209 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: no one has ever asked me. What would be my preference? 210 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Endoor scene, outdoor scene, endoor scene. Every time for me, 211 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: it goes to this idea of containment, and you almost 212 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: have an indwelling barrier that's set up to a certain 213 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: degree that prevents loss of any kind of evidence. You 214 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: have to think, though, with this young lady, and from 215 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: what we know from this horrible homicide that took place 216 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: all the way back in twenty eleven, that there would 217 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: have been a significant amount of trace evidence at the scene, 218 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: either adjacent to her body or throughout the house. And 219 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: they've never really released how extensive her injuries were. We 220 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: do know that she was, and they've termed it as 221 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: being executed essentially after being tied down. Why would you, 222 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: I guess this is a big question. What would be 223 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: the purpose behind tying this young woman to a chair 224 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: if you just wanted to end her life? What would 225 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: drive a perpetrator to want to sit her down? The 226 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: only thing I can really think of, and I would 227 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: imagine that the police did as well, Dave, is they 228 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: would view this as perhaps torture of some kind or 229 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: a I don't know, an inquisition perhaps directed at her. 230 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to control you. You will remain restrained in 231 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: this position. I want answers, and I want them now. 232 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: And if those answers are not given in a satisfactory manner, 233 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: we're going to blow your head off or we're going 234 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: to do grievous harm to you. And that's kind of 235 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: what this smacks of. So when you have someone, I mean, 236 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: let's fink my theory. Yeah, sure, go ahead. 237 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 3: I thought it was. He's done. 238 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: The individual has done whatever they're going to do, and 239 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: they have tied her to this chair to say, look, 240 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: you're not going anywhere. I'm going to leave, okay, And 241 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: once I get done, you can try to get yourself 242 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: out and you can go. But I'm leaving now just 243 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: to calm her down. And then once she's calm and 244 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: realize that he's leaving, boom shot to the back of 245 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: the head. 246 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's possible. I think one of the things 247 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to know that we know that she's bound 248 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: to the chair, I'd really like to know if if 249 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: she was, if she was, you know, blindfolded anyway, you know, like, 250 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: for instance, if there was someone that if we go 251 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: with with your idea here that if there was someone 252 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: that she knew that was doing this, wouldn't they want 253 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: to blindfold her so that she wouldn't have any knowledge 254 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: of who they were, But that would imply that they 255 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: had taken her by surprise, you know, so that they 256 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: couldn't be identified if they were going to let her 257 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: go free. But she could still recognize voices as well. 258 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, someone was driven to h to 259 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: commit a homicide. And it's not like she was being 260 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: there shooting her to wound her, Dave, this is a 261 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: this is a headshot, all right, So the intent there 262 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: is to end her life. There's no other way to really, 263 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, explain that and contain down there in the basement. 264 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: That also goes to another point. I think, you know, 265 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: for those of us that have basements in our home, 266 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: the sound quality in the basement is not the same 267 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: as it is throughout the rest of the house. So 268 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: if you take someone into a basement, you're kind of 269 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: sequestering them to a location, you know, because people can 270 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: shout and scream, because you know, many times basements are 271 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: at least partially, if not totally, underground, So you're, you know, 272 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: you're kind of insulated from sound escaping. And if you 273 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: want to do anything down there involving torture, you can 274 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: because most of the people are not going to hear 275 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: it that are in a right now. If you're up 276 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: on the first floor or the second floor, that sound 277 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: has a real chance of traveling out. So would would 278 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: they have known about this? The perpetrator that showed up 279 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: to the house. And remember, if we're talking about intimates, 280 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: If we're talking about intimates, this is not her domicile. 281 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: This is actually the domicile of her aunt and uncle. 282 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: So how did the perpetrator know that the house even 283 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: had a basement in it? You see what I'm what 284 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm saying a kind of familiarity, you know. 285 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: On my word, No, I you know what, now, I 286 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: understand why this case got messed up because everything that 287 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: you're talking about, Joe, the different things you have to 288 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: expect in an investigation, are still question marks here because 289 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: you the only thing we know for sure is twenty 290 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 2: year old and Andrea Ilbert is dead, tied to a chair, 291 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: shot in the back of the head. That's all we know. 292 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: In the basement of the house, which was this somebody 293 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: who was familiar like her boyfriend, somebody who was invited 294 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: over there like her boyfriend, that maybe downstairs was where 295 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 2: they were going to have a you know, I don't 296 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: know their date, even though she was house sitting, so 297 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: being in the basement really doesn't matter. 298 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: But maybe he's there. 299 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm trying to think like you're saying, 300 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: because I can't make sense of it at all. I 301 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: mean at all, Joe, this is really afusing. 302 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it truly is. And of course the first person 303 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: that the police are going to look at is going 304 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: to be this boyfriend. And you know, and once I'm 305 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: sure that once he starts spilling his guts about this 306 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: and starts talking about how he felt like he was rejected, 307 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: you know first, you know, right out of right out 308 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: of the gate. You know, they're looking at this guy 309 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: really really hard for this. They're wanting to know. Yeah, 310 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: they're they're wanting they're wanting to try to get as 311 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: much information from him as possible, and they're going to 312 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: be assessing the nature of the relationship. And just to 313 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: understand this, if you're doing a history with somebody like this, 314 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: you're going to take them back. You know, how did 315 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: you guys first meet? Well, we know that we've established 316 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: that they met at work. How long have you been 317 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: seeing one another? And suddenly the question has become progressively 318 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: more uncomfortable. You know, have you guys been having trouble? 319 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: Have have you gotten into an argument? Did the argument 320 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: is physical? Yeah? Recently recently? 321 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, last night you guys got Yeah, you were supposed 322 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: to be over there watching a movie, having date night 323 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: and wait a minute, the text says no. 324 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 3: So what do you think about that, buddy? 325 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, And it's an out and out rejection, 326 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: And so you're thinking, if this, if this kid has 327 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: any kind of of anger that's built up over this, 328 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: you know, what was it we said early on Dave? 329 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: This plays back into it. He goes in, and he 330 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: begins to cry and cries for this long protracted period 331 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: of time by his own admission. Okay, and I know, 332 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: you know, you can make a light of it, but 333 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: if he's wounded, he's wounded emotionally over it. And so 334 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: in rejection, Amen, every every I don't know anybody that 335 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: hasn't been rejected before, and particularly it's a very powerful thing. 336 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 1: And so you know, the police see see these breadcrumbs 337 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: along the way, They're also going to want to know 338 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: where you involved in a physical relationship with her, and again, 339 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, talking about how things become progressively more uncomfortable. 340 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: Then they go out to all the peripheral people. Did 341 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: you you know here at the front, at the front 342 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: of the store where the cash wresters are, did you 343 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: folks that worked these cash wrestlers, you ever see them 344 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: get into a fight up here? Were they ever angry 345 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: at one another? Did any of that happen? Are there 346 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: any instances? And oh, one more thing, is it okay 347 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: for people to date that work here? Can they date? 348 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: You know? What's the policy about that? That sort of thing? 349 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: So you have to consider every bit of this. But Dave, 350 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: I got to tell you when they work this case. 351 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: They worked this case and the boyfriend is identified as 352 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: the number one suspect in this thing. Man, he not 353 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: only was he identified, he was actually arrested. Yep, dude, 354 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: he was charged and convicted on this thing. 355 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: Carrogation video is rough. 356 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the you know, the police, the police as 357 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: they're going through this process are pressing him, pressing him, pressing. 358 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: And if you're young and not very worldly, uh, it 359 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: always amazes me that people that want to fight with 360 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: cops on the street to get into you know, these 361 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: verbal verbal contests with cops. You know that you can 362 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: go to there's a technique that's taught that's taught in 363 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: uh and you go. You don't get it necessarily when 364 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: you're going through the academy, but there's actually a course 365 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: that's taught and I remember it very well. 366 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: It's called verbal. 367 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: Judo and it it talks about how to either de 368 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: escalate a situation or how to press the buttons of 369 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: an individual. It's kind of a rudimentary way, you know, 370 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: to do this, and you know, cops make their living 371 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: by doing this. You know, that's why attorneys say, keep 372 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: your mouth shut, don't say anything. Because you're not as 373 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: you'll never be as good as the cops are. There 374 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: might be a few that are out there that can 375 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: go toe to toe with the police, but every time 376 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: you say something, you're adding more fuel to the fire. 377 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: That's why you know, every attorney that I know that's 378 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: a defense attorney is going to say, keep your mouth 379 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: shut as for your phone call, and don't agree to anything. 380 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, in this case, this young man not only 381 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: did he buckle under the pressure, Oh Joe Dave, he 382 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: was convicted and they sent away to the state prison 383 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: for life. 384 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: Joe for life. Him all I could think of. 385 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: And I wanted to ask you this because you know 386 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: what it looked like. You know what it looks like 387 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 2: to find somebody tied to a chair with a gunshot 388 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: in the back of the head. This nineteen year old 389 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 2: kid doesn't were the detectives able to sit him down 390 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: in that room and say, do you think maybe when 391 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: she shot you down, that you might have blacked out 392 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: and maybe you did harm her and you don't remember it, 393 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: but maybe it happened, and just maybe you did go 394 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: in there and see something and that's caused you to 395 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: forget all these horrible things that you've done because they're 396 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: telling this kid you can go home. Just look, man, 397 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: we just got to get this and you're going to 398 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 2: be able to go home. And I will tell you 399 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: this goes back to you said lawyersy don't talk. Here's 400 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: why this kid you said it already. Chart arrested, charged 401 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 2: with murder at trial, convicted, sentenced to life imprison Joseph 402 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 2: Scott Morgan and this kid they got him to admit. 403 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: He wrote down that he entered the house, saw Ilber's body, 404 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: assumed she committed suicide, and then moved doc gigs in 405 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: the room to make it look like she hadn't harmed herself. 406 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: I got to write that down. 407 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: Nne. Yeah, makes no sense whatsoever. And yeah, you were 408 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: talking about applying pressure. You know, in that narrative that 409 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: you're giving there are also physical things that can be 410 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: done where they're not necessarily striking you. But I'll give 411 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: you for instance. Okay, let's say one of the first 412 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: things that they ask you when you're in that interview 413 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: room is, hey, man, you want a bottle of water. 414 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: And people think that's very benign, but what they'll do 415 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: and they'll give you as much water as you want okay, 416 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: And what happens when you drink water, Well, particularly me 417 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: at this age, I'll tell you what happens when I 418 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: drink water. But at that particular time, you know in 419 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: his life, you know, he's he's ten, he's confused, he 420 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: knows that he's here, he's being questioned there. You know, 421 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, not necessarily him, but there are these 422 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: instances where you're giving water. Yeah, look, and the people 423 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: that are doing the interview can see that you're becoming 424 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: more uncomfortable because you've got to go avoid You've got 425 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom. And it's almost like a 426 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: Columbo moment where they say, yeah, we're gonna let you 427 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, but wait one more thing. Let's 428 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: go back to this point in time. So all the 429 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: while that internal pressure is building up in your bladder. 430 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: That's one of the little tricks. So keep your mouth shut, 431 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: don't drink any water. So, you know, you begin to 432 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: think about this and think about, well, why in the 433 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: world would he admit to this, Why would he Was 434 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: it because the police pressured him into it, or or 435 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: was it because he actually did it. So day with 436 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: Kenneth Grondon, who by the way has been convicted. Now 437 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: he's he's essentially, you know, taken off to state prison 438 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: where he is going he begins to serve a lifelong sentence, 439 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: no possibility of parole at all. He's going in, as 440 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: they say, he's going in for all day. All right, Well, 441 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: two years. 442 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 3: Into evicted by a jury. 443 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: You want to add that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not 444 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: just suggestion. It's not just the police, you know, and 445 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: do the whole thing. 446 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: Man and had a jury, they sat a jury, they 447 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: presented the case, the evidence they had came out and 448 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 2: this at the time, I'm of the murder. He's nineteen 449 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: years old. A couple of years go by and the 450 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 2: man is convicted. Joe, He's convicted by a jury of 451 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: his peers, not just a sitting judge. And that means 452 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: something to me because this kid, he didn't do it. 453 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: We know that ahead of time. That's why we're doing 454 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: the story. But thank god, Joe that there were other 455 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: people who did not believe he was guilty because he 456 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: was able to appeal, and when they did look at 457 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: the information, they're like, wow, this, I think we might 458 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: have got this wrong. Somebody along the line got this wrong. 459 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: Because he's sentenced in twenty sixteen, and it's twenty eighteen 460 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 2: when everything starts to come together for him. But he's 461 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: been in jail for he's been in prison, man, I mean, 462 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: what's it like when you go to prison, Joe. 463 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thin it's the county lock up. I'll put 464 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: it to you that way. 465 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 3: It's five foot ten. 466 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he is five foot ten. And listen. One of 467 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: the reasons, and this comes into play that we know 468 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: his height, Grindin's height, is the fact that a bit 469 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: of the information that was used in this case to 470 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: convict him was the fact that he was he being grinding, 471 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: was identified that as using the victim's credit card, and 472 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: also that they have him doing this. You've got these 473 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: experts that have come in and they look at this thing. 474 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: They say, look this, this person that you're saying is 475 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: at the you know, at the ATM with herst stolen card, 476 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, withdrawing money. This person's like six one six two. 477 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: Grind is five ten. And what they determined was that 478 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: was that not only that, but also the police had 479 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: violated what's referred to as Bender's rule, which just thumbnail here, 480 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: which states that a suspect must be told when an 481 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 1: attorney has been retained. So it's at that point in 482 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: time that you know, all you must cease and desist 483 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: with what you're doing with the suspect that they have 484 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: legal counsel, they will be there too, you know, to 485 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: offer assistance. And so anything that comes after that notification 486 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: is inadmissible Dave. So you know, he could he could 487 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: have admitted to anything. But if you break that particular rule, 488 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: then all of that stuff is, any information gleaned, is 489 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: going to be non admissible, and that that's what happened. 490 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: And then you couple that with the videography evidence that 491 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: just doesn't marry up, you know, with Grondin because he's 492 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: kind of of a you know, he's kind of a 493 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: stocky guy. You know, you look at him, he's you know, 494 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: kind of muscled. The older photographs of him, you know, 495 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: he's kind of muscled up and that sort of thing. 496 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: And this actually led Dave to him being released from 497 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: prison and sent home and placed in house arrest. Now 498 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: they haven't overturned. 499 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: It, but he was not free to do what he wanted. 500 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: No, huh no. But they send him home. He's out 501 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: of the joint. 502 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 3: Right thankfully, thankfully. But Joe. 503 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: Now it goes back to you've got physical evidence that's 504 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: got to be present whenever there is a shot to 505 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: the back of the head. 506 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: Yea. 507 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: And I want to go back to that scene because 508 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: wouldn't there have been some type of physical evidence left 509 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 2: behind by the killer And wouldn't that killer take something 510 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: with him or her? Would they not leave something behind 511 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: and take something with them? 512 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 3: I mean, I. 513 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 2: Cannot get past this because you're really in close proximity 514 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: to somebody, Yes, you know, to tie them to a 515 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 2: chair and you know, and then shoot them in the 516 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: back of the head. I'm just trying to figure out why, 517 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: how is it possible that we stopped investigating and went 518 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: after this one guy because he was the low hanging fruit. 519 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a low hanging fruit. And here's something 520 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: that's kind of fascinating to me. You collect, and Dave, 521 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: what I'm i about to tell you this type of 522 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: evidence is very intimate evidence. You go to the trouble 523 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: to work the scene down, and you know, you're the 524 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: aunt and uncle's basement where she was house sitting and 525 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: found of course executed. You collect evidence at the scene 526 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: that is intimate. And the reason I say intimate it's 527 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: not in a sexual sense. It is an item that 528 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: you place in your mouth that DNA evidence can easily 529 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: be transferred to. There are tons of these cases out there, 530 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: and that evidence is that said evidence is collected at seeing, 531 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: it's taken to the police station, and it ain't never tested. 532 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm always amazed in these cases, you know, where things 533 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: can go untested. You know, you don't get me on 534 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: my soapbox about rape kits, and you know, because of costs. 535 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: I think some of its costs and some of it 536 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: is And here's the downside of being quote unquote thorough 537 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: it scenes. There are certain detectives out there and crime 538 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: scene texts that want to take everything okay, And don't 539 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: think that, you know, being a death investigator, you know, 540 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: robs you of your humanity or a crimising tech or 541 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: a detective, because when you go out to scene and 542 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: you collect everything at the scene, what are you going 543 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: to do with it? Well, you don't have the budget 544 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: to test everything that's there. So you look at all 545 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: of the items that you've collected, what's gonna what's going 546 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: to have the highest problem outcome, what's going to be 547 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: the most benefit to us? And we'll retain the rest 548 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: of stuff. Well, that thing that they retained that was 549 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: never tested, Dave, it's a cigarette bud. And so what 550 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: do we do well for those that have never smoked cigarettes, 551 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: if you've got a filtered cigarette, every time you put 552 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: the scene in your mouth, and you've got you know, 553 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't know where they call it a micro knight, 554 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: the a filter or what. That's what they used to 555 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: call it back in the sixties. Uh, well micro knight, 556 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: Mike micro k not what is it? My micro knight filter? 557 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: Cancer cancer sticks, another nail and coffin. You're transferring through 558 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: saliva your DNA into what amounts to almost like a sponge. 559 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's rich. And the outer circumference of the 560 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: cigarette butt as well. You're wrapping your lips around it. 561 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: So if you've got saliva on your lips that sit 562 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: in just your tongue or your teeth. If you've got 563 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: saliva on your lips, that's going to transfer to the 564 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: outer cylinder of this thing. And it was never tested. 565 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: And guess what they had this piece of evidence. They've 566 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: got this kid who has been released and put into 567 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: house arrest. My thought is that they've always suspected that 568 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: there was at least one other person involved in this, 569 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: and they never followed. 570 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: Up on it. 571 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: Well, enter onto the stage our friends at AUTHORM, and 572 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: Dave I got to tell I got to tell our 573 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: friends the story behind me picking this case. I saw 574 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: the case and it made no reference to AUTHRAM at all, 575 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, Wow, this is really a wacky case. 576 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: Dave and I ought to talk about this, and I 577 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: made it through like the first two thirds of the article, 578 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, DNA solves pops up. 579 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: You know, most of the cases that you and I 580 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: talk about with authorm are cases where we've got an 581 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: unknown individual and they're finally identified after see authorm has 582 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: multiple utilities, Dave. It's not just a matter of trying 583 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: to discover the identity, which to me is one of 584 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: the most noble things that can happen. But this utility 585 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: that they have, this patented methodology that David and Kristen 586 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: Middleman have developed at AUTHRAM, can help solve these cases 587 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: as well. So if there are peripheral actors there and 588 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: they have something like a like a cigarette button, I 589 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: can only imagine a DNA scientist pun intended here with 590 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: salivating over this, you know, because of how rich this 591 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: is going to be and what you can extract from it. 592 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 1: And you take that data and you plug it in 593 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: to this forensic genetic genealogy database. With these open so 594 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: open sources that they have access to, you're going to 595 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: get a hit. And they did in this case, Dave. 596 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: And you know, when looking at this, Joe and you 597 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: mentioned them having the cigarette. But from the beginning, you know, 598 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: the only thing I can think of is that while 599 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 2: they did consider that they were probably more than one 600 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 2: person involved, but they get somewhat of an admission of 601 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: guilt without having to test the cigarette butt they go 602 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 2: and get a conviction by a jury and a sentence. 603 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 2: I can see them not testing it, spending the money 604 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 2: to test it, because they've already got it. 605 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 3: It's done. 606 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: Is we got the murderer, he's in prison, but the 607 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: minute he's out, the minute there's a problem. I'm a 608 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 2: little concerned, you know that there wasn't somebody that was 609 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 2: yelling and screaming, hey, look we got stuff to test. 610 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: You know. 611 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: I hate that it took this long for this guy 612 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 2: to get his name cleared. I hate that he had 613 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 2: police sitting on him at nineteen years old, and they 614 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 2: were not being the way they should have been. There 615 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 2: should have been somebody there Joe that said, hey, there's 616 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: a lawyer outside waiting for you to talk to you, 617 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 2: which is exactly what happened while they were grilling him. 618 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 2: They knew it, Yeah, they didn't tell it. 619 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: Well, I got to stop you there, man, I got 620 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: to stop you there because Okay, this is going to 621 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: be very disheartening for you to hear. Yeah, he's tethered 622 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: in his home still and guess what what, Yeah, he's 623 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: still tethered in his home. And come on, and the 624 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: author he's up there are going to be filing new 625 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: charges against him, against him, yes, against him, in addition 626 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: to the person that they believe is the purp in 627 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: this case, who for some reason, I think that the 628 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: local constabulary believes that there is a connection between Grondon 629 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: and this other subject that we're going to talk about. 630 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 2: How about Chadwick. Yeah, Chadwick Mobley has now pleaded guilty. 631 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: He has and he pleaded nolo contendre, which means it 632 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: is as good as saying I'm guilty. And by the way, 633 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: they you know, the family, the family of this young 634 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: woman were very found that very dissatisfying because he was 635 00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: never if you plead nolo, they're not going to compel you, 636 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: apparently to admit to what you've done, and which is 637 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: something that I think is key, particularly in our society. 638 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: If you see that the evidence is so overwhelming and 639 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: you plead nol, it's not the same as saying I'm guilty, 640 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: because under those circumstances they can compel you to allocute, 641 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: at least on some level. But he was not compelled 642 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: to do that. So you've got this fellow who, by 643 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: the way, has essentially been on the run for many years. 644 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. He was actually tracked down in Montana, 645 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: which is where. 646 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 3: When they watched him for a while. 647 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they had the info and they were having 648 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: trouble getting anything from him. You know, that they could 649 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 2: test to see if his DNA did match, and they 650 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 2: finally did get it, but it took some time. And 651 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: once they did and as soon as they questioned him, 652 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 2: he bolted. You know, he knew, he knew what he had, well, 653 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 2: he knew what was going on. 654 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew what was going on, and I can 655 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: only imagine, you know, when if he's got counsel when 656 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: he begins to stare down these numbers that Authorm would 657 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: have generated, these astronomical numbers. Uh, they're gonna be looking 658 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: He's gonna be looking right down the barrel of this thing, 659 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: understanding that the chances that he's going to get off 660 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: on this are slim and none. So he just rolls 661 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: over and literally when there is no trial, he comes 662 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: in pleads nolo to this thing, and the judge hands 663 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: down a sentence on this guy, Dave of life in 664 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: prison without possibility of parole. 665 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 3: You know, this case is ugly, It really is. 666 00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 2: At this point, I feel sick to my stomach for 667 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 2: the family of the victim here. You know, the one 668 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 2: thing you have left after you lose a loved one 669 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 2: is you have answers. 670 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 3: You know you need answers. We need to know what 671 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 3: happened and. 672 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,959 Speaker 2: Why there has to The why really just helps us. 673 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 2: I think doesn't mean we agree with it or like it, 674 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 2: but at least there was a reason. They don't have 675 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 2: a reason. They don't have an emission, They don't have 676 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: anything that allows them to go to sleep at night 677 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 2: saying I know what happened to my loved one and. 678 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 3: Why I don't know that. 679 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 2: I just know that her boyfriend got locked up and 680 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 2: now he's not locked up anymore. Another guy who actually 681 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: pled no contest is now in the joint, but they're not. 682 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: There is no you know, you and I don't use 683 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: the term closure because I don't believe it's a real terms. Yeah, 684 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 2: I think it is, and you know, if you guys disagree, 685 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 2: we understand. I understand that, but you know, I just 686 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 2: don't think there is. Sometimes there's an end, but even 687 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 2: that end is hollow. 688 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: It's not achievable. It makes it you know, that term again, 689 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: you know, it gives the impression that everything's going to 690 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: be all right and that you will have closure, you 691 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 1: close that chapter of your life and you move on. 692 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: And that's just not it's not the way it works. 693 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: It's bad. It's bad wording. And you know, look, there 694 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: there's going to be a lasting, you know, impact of 695 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: this case. First off, can I tell you what really 696 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: disturbs me about this? Going back to Chadwick Shane Mobley 697 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 1: that has been arrested pled NOLO and has been convicted. 698 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: He was at the time, he was working as an 699 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: emt in Pontiac, Michigan. So there's that proximity. I think 700 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: what I'm still trying to understand is what is the connection, 701 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 1: what is the actual connection between mobilely growed and more 702 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: importantly to me, this poor young lady Andrea. I want 703 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: to know how all of those kind of triangulct together 704 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: and this you know, what would what would compel a 705 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: person to participate in this behavior like this that brings 706 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: about an end to a life. You know, he had 707 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: worked as an emt up there, so he he would 708 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: have had this idea of proximity to those events which occurred, 709 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: you know, like I mentioned earlier in this little this 710 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,800 Speaker 1: little hamlet outside of Flint back over to the east. 711 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: And additionally, he had taken on a job Dave of 712 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 1: at this point in his life of being a long 713 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: haul trucker, so you know, when the investigation led to him, 714 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: he was going to try to dispose of anything that 715 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: might tie him back in his truck and went to 716 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: some efforts to try to, you know, destroy these things. 717 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: But the one thing that you can't destroy is your 718 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 1: DNA molecule that you're toting around with you. It doesn't matter, 719 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, how many dirty towels you have in your 720 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: in your in your cab of your truck. It doesn't 721 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: matter if you've got food stuffs that are left behind. 722 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you know you're shedding skin off 723 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: of your scalp and you wipe all that stuff up. 724 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: If that's even possible, that genetic code that you have 725 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: within you can still be paired up and matched with 726 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: that genetic code that was on that cigarette, and those 727 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: two things are blended together to give you a result, 728 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: or not blended together, but compared and that you know, 729 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: those numbers are, as I've said before, absolutely astronomical, and 730 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: they lead back to him. But again, this case is 731 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,280 Speaker 1: going to require a lot more because this young man, 732 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: according to what I have been reading, is still going 733 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: to be recharged in this case. So it would seem 734 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: to me that they're going to do this for one 735 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: or two reasons. They're either going to say that, well, 736 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: there's other things that we know about this case that 737 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: you guys don't know, or maybe it's that they just 738 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: want to save face for having, you know, led to 739 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: a conviction of this man and put him away. And 740 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: still even though he's not in the joint, he's still limited. 741 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: He's not free to move about. But listen, now, that 742 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: this case, at least to this point, has been solved. 743 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: We have to keep in mind that it was solved 744 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: by the efforts of those authorities that felt that it 745 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: was in the best interest to dig deeper and try 746 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: to determine, you know, whose DNA was on on that 747 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: cigarette putt and of course that leads us back to 748 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: author It's important that any of you out here within 749 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: the sound of my voice that are interested in helping 750 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: to solve crimes, helping to solve mysteries, please do yourself 751 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: a favor and go visit dnasolves dot com and they 752 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: have got a myriad of cases that are out there, 753 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: but this is a self funded endeavor. They need money 754 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: in the pot in order to move these cases forward. 755 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: And anything you choose the case, maybe it's something the 756 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: story is compelling to you, or maybe it's in proximity 757 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: to where you live. You choose that case, you donate 758 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: to that case, and when they hit that trigger mechanism 759 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,320 Speaker 1: for those funds, which is roughly seven thousand to seven 760 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 1: seventy five hundred bucks, that case will begin to move 761 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: forward at that point in time and maybe, just maybe 762 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: because of your donation, someone will have answers I'm Joseph 763 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Packs 764 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:11,840 Speaker 2: H