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Speaker 1: Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. The

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Speaker 1: World Cup is in full swing. Now most Americans we

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Speaker 1: only give a shit about soccer every four years, but

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Speaker 1: today we are going to make a case why you

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Speaker 1: should care. So we are going to talk to Leander

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Speaker 1: shar Lackins. He wrote a book called The Long Game

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Speaker 1: about why Team USA might actually be great this year

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Speaker 1: and why this year's World Cup is better than ever.

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Speaker 1: And then after that we'll bring on Daniel Wan. He's

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Speaker 1: a professor of psychology who looks at why sports fandom

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Speaker 1: is uniquely good for mental health, and he'll explain exactly

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Speaker 1: how to get the benefits. We're going to start with

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Speaker 1: Leander right after the break. All right, thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: on the show. Happy to do it. All right, So

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six World Cup. I believe you said that

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Speaker 1: in terms of sheer footprint and cultural weight, this is

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Speaker 1: going to be like the biggest sporting event in human history.

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Speaker 1: It's like multiple Super Bowls a day. Why is it different?

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Speaker 2: I think there's an argument to be made, and it

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Speaker 2: sounds super hyperbolic, but I can't think of anything that's

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Speaker 2: been bigger in just humankind period. Because it's going to

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Speaker 2: be one hundred and four games over thirty nine days.

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Speaker 2: It's going to sprawl over all of North America. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's the sporting event that the entire world locks into,

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Speaker 2: more so than the Olympics, more so than anything else.

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Speaker 2: The organizers describe it. And this is maybe a little

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Speaker 2: much as four Super Bowls a day for thirty nine days.

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Speaker 1: That's that's an.

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Speaker 2: Exaggeration, but it's not that far off when you consider

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Speaker 2: that a World Cup final in terms of viewership attracts

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Speaker 2: something like ten times the viewing numbers that the super

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Speaker 2: Bowl final or that the super Bowl gets, right, So

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Speaker 2: like you're talking about absolutely massive numbers. Revenue that FIFA

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Speaker 2: predicts will be between eleven and fourteen billion dollars for

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Speaker 2: this tournament. So just the sheer volume of everything involved

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Speaker 2: here is just unprecedented.

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Speaker 1: If we do the math on that, what a super

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Speaker 1: Bowl get like eighty to one hundred million viewers, so

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Speaker 1: we're talking about almost like a billion viewers.

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Speaker 2: The super Bowl I think runs like usually like one

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten to one hundred and twenty million viewers,

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Speaker 2: and a World Cup final always is north of a

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Speaker 2: billion viewers globally.

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Speaker 1: Amazing, and they have more. Is it right they have

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Speaker 1: more teams this year and this year's World Cup.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So the up until the last World Cup there were

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Speaker 2: thirty two teams who would play sixty four games. Now

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Speaker 2: there's going to be forty eight teams who will play

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Speaker 2: one hundred and four games. And what's worth noting here

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Speaker 2: is that the last World Cup that was held in

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Speaker 2: the United States in nineteen ninety four only had twenty

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Speaker 2: four teams playing fifty two games. That World Cup set

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Speaker 2: attendance records in total attendance and average attendance. That still

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Speaker 2: stands even though all of the subsequent World Cups were expanded.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that now it's coming back here with

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Speaker 2: double the footprints, double the teams, double the games, it

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Speaker 2: should absolutely shatter the attendances even for the World Cup.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. So, speaking of America and USA, I feel like

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Speaker 1: most Americans, this is one of those things for every

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Speaker 1: four years we go, oh yeah, soccer.

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Speaker 3: Is a sport.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe I'll watch some soccer. Does America have

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Speaker 1: a team there? Make a case for why people should

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Speaker 1: care about Team USA this year despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have not been spectacular in the past.

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Speaker 2: I think that part of the reason the US has

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Speaker 2: that relationship, especially with men's soccer, is because there is

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Speaker 2: this kind of assumption in this country that any sport

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Speaker 2: we take seriously, we should either dominate or be sort

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Speaker 2: of one of the world's top teams in and soccer

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Speaker 2: we've taken seriously for a long time, and we're not

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Speaker 2: there yet because the difficulty is that there's two hundred

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Speaker 2: and ten other national teams who also take the sport

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Speaker 2: really seriously, and who in some cases have a half

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Speaker 2: century head start on us.

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Speaker 1: If not longer.

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Speaker 2: But this team is really interesting for lots of ways

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Speaker 2: that I got into in my book, which is that

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Speaker 2: they're delightfully diverse. You know, there's players from the borderlands

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Speaker 2: in El Paso, and players from California, and players from

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Speaker 2: every corner of the country. There's players who grew up

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Speaker 2: in the Netherlands and in Germany and in the UK.

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Speaker 2: They just have stories from all walks of life, from

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Speaker 2: you know, being affluent growing up to players who kind

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Speaker 2: of had to scrape by, and so in that sense,

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Speaker 2: I think that this team reflects a lot of the

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Speaker 2: qualities that many Americans like to see in their country,

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Speaker 2: which is that it's a melting pot and that it's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people coming together from varied backgrounds and

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Speaker 2: sort of pulling in the same direction and giving their

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Speaker 2: best and trying to bring this team to maybe a

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Speaker 2: higher place than its talent necessarily kind of dictates that they.

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Speaker 1: Should be at for this World Cup.

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Speaker 2: You know, if they make it to the quarterfinals, the

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Speaker 2: last eight, they'll have had a very very strong World Cup.

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Speaker 2: So they're an underdog in that sense, which is not

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Speaker 2: a position that we're super used to being in as

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Speaker 2: a sort of an America national team concept. So there's

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Speaker 2: a lot to like about this team. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of interesting character, there's a lot of interesting backstories.

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Speaker 1: When's the last time we've made the top eight once?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: Twice if you count the very first World Cup in

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty The first World Cup was played in Uruguay

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Speaker 2: and only thirteen teams showed up. One of them was

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Speaker 2: the United States and they placed third at that World Cup.

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Speaker 2: But kind of in the modern era, the best the

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Speaker 2: US has done is the quarterfinals is the last eight

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, which is also when they

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Speaker 2: won their only knockout game that they've ever won, which

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Speaker 2: was against regional rivals Mexico No less, which is a

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Speaker 2: team they knew very very well. So this time around,

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Speaker 2: because the tournaments expanded. To get to the quarterfinals, which

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Speaker 2: I think is sort of the benchmark that they should

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Speaker 2: aim for, they'll have to win two knockout games, which

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Speaker 2: means that they would have to triple the number of

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Speaker 2: those games that they've won in their entire history.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about it? What do you put

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Speaker 1: the odds out?

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Speaker 2: What's really really important is to win the group, even

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Speaker 2: though the group stags, this time is really forgiving. At

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Speaker 2: the previous World Cups, there were eight groups of four teams.

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Speaker 2: They play around robin. The top two teams advance, the

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Speaker 2: bottom two teams are eliminated. Now there's twelve groups of

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Speaker 2: four that play around robin. The top two teams advance automatically,

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Speaker 2: and then eight of the twelve best third place teams

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Speaker 2: advance as well. But that redouns to your seeding in

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Speaker 2: the rest of the bracket. So it's going to be

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Speaker 2: important for the US to win their group because if

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Speaker 2: they don't, they might run into Argentina in the third round,

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Speaker 2: which you want to avoid. They're the defending world champions.

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Speaker 2: Lionel Messi I'm sure everybody's familiar. So if they can

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Speaker 2: win their group, which means doing better than Turkey, which

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Speaker 2: is a good team, I would give them a fifty

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Speaker 2: to fifty chance of making the quarterfinal. If they don't,

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Speaker 2: it's going to get sticky pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: And so what was the main reason that we have

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Speaker 1: not been as good at soccer? Is that just cultural?

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Speaker 1: You said other countries have had a head start whars basketball,

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Speaker 1: we invent of the game, We've dominated it for years,

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Speaker 1: so we're we're always going to be in the top

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Speaker 1: and with soccer has just been completely different.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a few different factors. I think there's

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Speaker 2: most countries in the world are kind of sporting monocultures

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Speaker 2: right where they play other sports, but you know, almost

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Speaker 2: all of the resources, almost all of the talent goes

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Speaker 2: towards soccer, and they've been continually improving for one hundred years,

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Speaker 2: right and building. And what happened in the US We

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Speaker 2: actually had a brief golden age in the nineteen twenties

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Speaker 2: when some of the best players in the world were

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Speaker 2: coming to play in the US because this is where

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Speaker 2: the highest salaries were. And then that league collapsed in

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Speaker 2: the Great depression and sort of domestic soccer, you know,

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Speaker 2: and National Soccer League didn't really exist again until the

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Speaker 2: seventies and then that one collapsed, and not until Major

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Speaker 2: League Soccer in nineteen ninety six have we had sort

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Speaker 2: of continuous solid soccer infrastructure. So all of that means that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the national team has had this really kind

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Speaker 2: of patchwork history and structure that it was built on,

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Speaker 2: and that's why we weren't a World Cup from nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty to nineteen ninety because we just didn't have the

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Speaker 2: infrastructure to develop players. So given all of that, it's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a miracle sporting wise that we are

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Speaker 2: where we are these days because we had an awfully

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Speaker 2: long way to go.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's good news. This makes me feel this makes

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Speaker 1: me feel bad about TSA twenty eighteen though, right, we

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Speaker 1: didn't make it. What did we learn from that experience?

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Speaker 1: Did that become a catalyst for sort of the hope

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Speaker 1: you have moving into the team we have now?

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Speaker 2: In several ways it did for a start, that was

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Speaker 2: kind of a reality check because from nineteen ninety through

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, the US had made every World Cup and

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Speaker 2: even the great nations in soccer don't qualify for every

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Speaker 2: World Cup right, Italy has now missed three in a row,

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Speaker 2: which is crazy given that they've won it four times.

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Speaker 2: They're one of just eight countries to have won the

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Speaker 2: World Cup at all. So it kind of woke a

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Speaker 2: lot of people up. There was a little bit of

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Speaker 2: complacency that that's crept in, but it also allowed a

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Speaker 2: new team to be built in its place. That team

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Speaker 2: had a lot of veterans, it's sort of it had

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Speaker 2: a bit of a chemistry issue, shall we say, And

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Speaker 2: so that kind of wiped the slate clean for Christian

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Speaker 2: Polisic and the new generation Tyler Adams, Weston McKenny, for

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Speaker 2: those guys to come in and really seize the national team.

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Speaker 2: And it also allowed them to kind of start rebuilding

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Speaker 2: in the shadows when people weren't really paying attention to

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Speaker 2: the national team for a few years. Because when you

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Speaker 2: missed the World Cup in a country that really only

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Speaker 2: locks in on soccer, you know for that month every

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Speaker 2: four years, you're not going to get a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of eyeballs on you and what you're doing. And sometimes

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Speaker 2: that can be a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, who are our most exciting players? Like we should

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Speaker 1: be what name should people know going into the World

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Speaker 1: Cup On Team USA?

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Speaker 2: Christian Polisic is the face of the team. He plays

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Speaker 2: for AC Milan. He's arguably already the best player we've

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Speaker 2: ever produced as an attacker. Certainly, He's also had a

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Speaker 2: big slump in the set half of his Italian season,

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Speaker 2: which seems to have coincided with the breakup of his

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Speaker 2: first serious girlfriend. Think of that what you will it happens.

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Speaker 2: Weston McKenney plays in Italy as well for Juventus. He's

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Speaker 2: really fun. He's this kind of goofy, army brat who

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Speaker 2: came out of Texas, who's always just fooling around, messing

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Speaker 2: around until a soccer game starts, and then he just

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Speaker 2: turns into this all round sort of beast who can

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Speaker 2: play just about any position, really good passer, super smart.

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Speaker 2: Tyler Adams is the holding midfielder, which means that he

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Speaker 2: kind of screens the defense and he's really really serious

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Speaker 2: about his craft, to the point where like he refuses

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Speaker 2: the traditional post game jersey swap because he's just not interested.

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Speaker 2: He's just focused all the time. There's a few interesting strikers.

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Speaker 2: Floe Baaligan, who's Nigerian English American who plays for Monaco

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Speaker 2: in the French League.

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Speaker 1: He's really good.

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Speaker 2: Cardo Peppi came from the Borderlands. I mentioned him before,

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Speaker 2: from El Paso had a really agonizing decision to make

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Speaker 2: when he was seventeen years old whether he was going

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Speaker 2: to play for the US or he was going to

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Speaker 2: play for Mexico. He had the option to do both,

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Speaker 2: which really got into identity and assimilation and all the rest.

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Speaker 2: So he's really a guy that you can root for.

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Speaker 2: And then the two goalies have great backstories as well.

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Speaker 2: Matt Turner, who's the starter in Qatar and who might

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Speaker 2: be the number two at this World Cup, couldn't get

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Speaker 2: on a college soccer team to save his life coming

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Speaker 2: out of high school. Finally Fairfield University takes a chance

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Speaker 2: on him, and everybody missed this guy who would go

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Speaker 2: on to become a Premier League and a World Cup goalkeeper.

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Speaker 2: And then the other goalie, Matt Freese, is the son

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Speaker 2: of a famous neurosurgeon who pioneered gene therapy. And he's

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Speaker 2: from this family where everybody either has a PhD and

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Speaker 2: they're a scientist, or they're in finance and in tech.

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Speaker 2: And even though Matt has a degree from Harvard. He's

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Speaker 2: sort of like the underachiever in the family, kind of

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Speaker 2: like slumming it in pro sports, which I really like

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Speaker 2: the idea. So there's a lot of fun guys on

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Speaker 2: this team.

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Speaker 1: I love this, Okay, So I have a question if

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Speaker 1: do you think that if football, basketball, and baseball were

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Speaker 1: not so dominant in the United States and we were

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Speaker 1: funneling our athletic talent into soccer, would we just be

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Speaker 1: wiping out the world.

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Speaker 2: That's a question that's been asked a lot over the years,

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Speaker 2: like what would happen if our best athletes played soccer?

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Speaker 2: And I think it would help certainly. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, soccer players have a very different body type

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Speaker 2: than NFL players or NBA players, Like there's really nobody

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Speaker 2: much taller than six foot four, six foot five in soccer,

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Speaker 2: So like if Lebron were a soccer player, with that

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Speaker 2: help us, I'm not so sure. Out of like the

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Speaker 2: five greatest soccer players of all time, Christiano Ronaldo is

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Speaker 2: the only one who's taller than like five foot ten, right,

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Speaker 2: So these players have a low center of gravity. I

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Speaker 2: think it would help if there were more resources going

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Speaker 2: into grassroots soccer and it was more affordable for more people.

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Speaker 2: Because one of the things that's happened is that, like

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Speaker 2: all youth sports, youth soccer has been kind of devoured

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Speaker 2: by the travel scene, and it's very, very expensive, and

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Speaker 2: so that's why you get a disproportionate representation of the

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Speaker 2: upper middle class in professional American soccer. And I do

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Speaker 2: think that if there was less competition from other sports,

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Speaker 2: there might be more pathways for people who can't afford

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Speaker 2: travel soccer to get into the sport, just because there'd

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Speaker 2: be more soccer overall, right, and so hopefully that would make.

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Speaker 1: It a bit more affordable. Yeah, those pay for play things.

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Speaker 1: You have to start paying and playing at a very

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Speaker 1: young age. To travel the hotels, it's a fortune. And

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Speaker 1: how much do you have any idea like how much

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Speaker 1: does that cost for the average family.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it can run from a few thousand dollars to

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands of dollars. And you know, most of

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Speaker 2: the national team players who aren't from the upper middle class,

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Speaker 2: And ironically some of our stars weren't. Lennon Donovan certainly wasn't,

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Speaker 2: Clint Dempsey wasn't. Now Ricardo Peppe wasn't. They kind of

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Speaker 2: made it in spite of the system as it exists,

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Speaker 2: right because Ricardo Peppi, his his backstory is incredible. His

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Speaker 2: father is a concrete finisher and he went into that

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Speaker 2: trade when he was thirteen years old. And the only

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Speaker 2: way to get Pepe in travel soccer and get him

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Speaker 2: in that competition that he needed to be in was

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Speaker 2: for him to basically like build his own travel soccer

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Speaker 2: team on a shoe string around Ricardo Wow, just because

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Speaker 2: that was the only way that could afford it, and

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Speaker 2: that family, the Peppe family, stayed just on the right

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Speaker 2: side of solvency for all of Ricardo's youth, which meant

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Speaker 2: that there was just enough money for him to keep going.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes that meant that Daniel Peppe, his dad had

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Speaker 2: to pawn the deed to their car just to they

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Speaker 2: could afford the gas for Ricardo to get to whatever

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Speaker 2: tournament he needed to be at, Like it was a

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Speaker 2: really close thing. So you sort of start to wonder

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Speaker 2: the just sheer volume of talents that we lost along

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Speaker 2: the way because they just couldn't afford, especially in the

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Speaker 2: communities where soccer is the dominant sport, they couldn't afford

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Speaker 2: to play at the levels where they were going to

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Speaker 2: be seen and coached by the right people and have

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Speaker 2: the opportunities to advance.

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Speaker 1: Well, you have just identified helped me identify my favorite

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Speaker 1: American player. Now it's Ricardo Pappy. No, no question after that?

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Speaker 1: Are there what's your insights on, how would you how

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Speaker 1: should we fix that? Is there anything being put forth

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Speaker 1: or what did you find there when you were reporting

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Speaker 1: your book.

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Speaker 2: So there's a structural issue here fundamentally, which is that

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Speaker 2: I was born in the Netherlands.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Belgium.

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Speaker 2: Every village and every hamlet has a soccer club and

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Speaker 2: they all have a youth system, and they're all either

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Speaker 2: free or very close to free, because those countries have

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Speaker 2: sports ministries who subsidize these things and who get federal

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Speaker 2: funds to make sure that people are playing sports. We

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Speaker 2: kind of have our system the other way around, where

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Speaker 2: if you can afford travel, soccer really your only option.

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Speaker 2: There's some scholarships here and there, but by and large

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Speaker 2: you're going to need to play for an m Moles academy.

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Speaker 2: We now have thirty Major League Soccer teams who all

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Speaker 2: have a youth academy, which are free for the serious prospects.

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Speaker 2: But as the director of the FC Dallas Academy put

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Speaker 2: it to me, and FC Dallas has a really strong academy.

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Speaker 2: That's where Peppi eventually came through. That's where Weston McKenney

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Speaker 2: came through. You might Chris Richards, you might see three,

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Speaker 2: four or five players on the field for the US

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Speaker 2: at the World Cup who came through the FC Dallas Academy.

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Speaker 2: And the point he made is that if you compare

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Speaker 2: Texas and Spain, right, which is roughly the same size,

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Speaker 2: Spain at any given time has about three hundred professional

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Speaker 2: and semi professional soccer teams, which means there's three hundred

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Speaker 2: sort of professional quality environments for players to develop in.

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Speaker 2: Texas has three fully professional soccer teams, right, or at

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Speaker 2: least Major League Soccer teams. He made the point that Dallas,

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Speaker 2: which is about the size and population of Madrid, has

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Speaker 2: one soccer team, has one MLS academy theirs. Right, Madrid

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Speaker 2: has about twelve professional soccer teams, So if you're a

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Speaker 2: kid with any kind of talent growing up in Madrid,

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Speaker 2: you're twelve times as likely to wind up in a

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Speaker 2: pro academy, which is really the only serious pathway as

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Speaker 2: a soccer prospect as you do in Dallas, and Dallas

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Speaker 2: is actually one of the places where we're doing it well.

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Speaker 2: So we can't just rely on thirty MLS teams to

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Speaker 2: be doing all of this work in a country our size,

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Speaker 2: We need like three hundred of them, if not six

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Speaker 2: hundred of them. Right, And so while we've made massive

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Speaker 2: strides in player developments and kind of the pipelines that

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Speaker 2: we offer for our talent, we're still so so so

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Speaker 2: far removed from having the sort of infrastructure that we need.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So I'm going to put you on the

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Speaker 1: spot here with a sort of hypothetical, insane question given

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Speaker 1: what you said about given my question where I said

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Speaker 1: if we if all our basketball, football, baseball players were

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Speaker 1: to take up soccer, and then your counterpoint about, well,

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Speaker 1: those athletes are too big. If you had to pick

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Speaker 1: say three athletes in their prime American athletes have played

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Speaker 1: other sports, which three do you think would have been

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Speaker 1: best at soccer had they entered soccer instead of another sport,

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Speaker 1: they would have been the guys.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go with Steve Nash because he very

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Speaker 2: nearly was because he was a soccer player growing up,

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Speaker 2: and he's now a minority investor in a Spanish team MAJORCA,

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Speaker 2: someone like Saquon Barkley probably could have done well. Sort

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Speaker 2: of an unconventional body type for a soccer player, kind

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Speaker 2: of like Weston McKinnie, who's fairly stocky for a soccer player,

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Speaker 2: but it works for him. I can't even think of

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Speaker 2: anybody in baseball because they're just built entirely differently. Let's

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Speaker 2: see who's who's a really zippy point guard. Oh maybe

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Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson. Okay, I think he's he's quick enough, and

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Speaker 2: he's sort of dexterous enough. He might have made a

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Speaker 2: good soccer player.

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Speaker 1: I like that. Here's who came to my mind, John Stockton.

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Speaker 1: Now the reason for that is because soccer can be

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Speaker 1: a dirty sport. This guy was the dirtiest dude ever,

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Speaker 1: and yet he never got caught. He's gonna he's just

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Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna do dirty stuff. He's gonna make it happen.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe Ai, because Ai was what like six

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Speaker 1: feet tall, extremely talent. Oh he was six three. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe he's cut out. And then I realized this

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Speaker 1: is going against the rule of players being too big.

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Speaker 1: But I just feel like Dion with his swagger and

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Speaker 1: his attitude that would have brought something to the American

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Speaker 1: squad that was just like, yeah, this is the you're

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Speaker 1: playing an American team now. With all the swagger he has,

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you you barge into a few guys,

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Speaker 2: you send a message early on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Well I think Saikwan could do that too. Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, So once Team USA gets eliminated, unfortunately, it'll

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Speaker 1: probably happen, give listeners some teams and players they should

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Speaker 1: root for in the following categories. European powerhouse. Who's an

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Speaker 1: interesting team to watch and root for?

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Speaker 2: I think France is the best team, but they don't

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Speaker 2: always play the most attractive soccer. Spain is really fun

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Speaker 2: to watch because they're young and experienced, and they have

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Speaker 2: La Mignamal, who's sort of the heir apparent to Lionel Messi,

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Speaker 2: who's only eighteen years old and who has already led

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Speaker 2: Spain to the European Championship when he was sixteen and

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Speaker 2: turned sixteen during that tournament. He was fifteen when it started.

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Speaker 2: Which soccer. But the funnest European team is Portugal if

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Speaker 2: they bench Cristiano Ronaldo.

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Speaker 1: If they be all right, you gotta unpack that one.

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Speaker 2: Ronaldo's forty one years old. Now he can't move anymore.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the botox or the fig Bronzer,

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Speaker 2: but he's just a husk of himself. But he has

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Speaker 2: so much clout that, like the Portuguese coach doesn't dare

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Speaker 2: put him on the bench. Portugal has some of the funnest,

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Speaker 2: most creative players out there, Bruno Fernandez, Bernardo Silva, Vitina.

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Speaker 2: These guys are really really fun to watch. But when

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Speaker 2: they have Ronaldo playing upfront who doesn't move, it sort

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Speaker 2: of really drags them down. So if Ronaldo's not on

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Speaker 2: the field, I'll go with Portugal. If he is, I'll

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Speaker 2: go with Spain.

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Speaker 1: I just want to say that I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: laughing for the rest of the day about he's a

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Speaker 1: husk of himself. That's just amazing. Underdog Nation Norway. Norway

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Speaker 1: has not been to the World Cup since nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: In erling Holland, they have the most sort of their

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Speaker 2: cyborg striker from Manchester City. They have just the most

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Speaker 2: incredible athlete probably at the World Cup. The guy is huge,

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Speaker 2: I mean, speaking of football, or basketball players you know

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Speaker 2: in soccer, and he nevertheless can move as well as

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Speaker 2: anyone he just had. He's just a gold machine. They

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Speaker 2: have a few they're good talents upfront, and they have

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Speaker 2: Martin Odegard, the playmaker for Arsenal who just won the

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Speaker 2: Premier League that I think they're going to surprise some people.

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Speaker 2: Turkeys and underdog team as well. They're in the same

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Speaker 2: group as the US, which is a little concerning, and

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Speaker 2: they were the last team to come into that group

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Speaker 2: through a playoff. They have in Cannon Yielde's and Arda Gulaer.

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Speaker 2: They have a pair of twenty one year old winger

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Speaker 2: playmakery types who are incredibly talented. They play for Real

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Speaker 2: Madrid and Juventus. So I think they're going to catch

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Speaker 2: some people by surprise as well. Who's the fittest, fittest team,

435
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: like physically fittest team. Historically it would be the US

436
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 2: and that was kind of their their calling card. I

437
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: don't know if they are so much this time around.

438
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: I think what you're going to see at this tournament

439
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: is that countries from hotter climates are going to do

440
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: well just because the temperatures here are you know, it's

441
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: going to be a bit of a shock for some

442
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: of those players. Like when I say Norway, that's if

443
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 2: they can figure out how to function in the heat

444
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: and not wilt and just kind of melt on the field,

445
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: because the Norwegian summer is not the same as the

446
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: meadow Lands summer. Show we say who's the fittest team,

447
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 2: it's usually someone like Japan or Korea.

448
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: Okay, what's your favorite player to watch? It's just magical

449
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: to watch a lot of fun.

450
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 2: You know, this is a really boring answer, but even

451
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: he's gonna be thirty nine, you're in this tournament, Like Linel,

452
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: Messi just still does things on the field that, you know,

453
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: after twenty five years of watching soccer professionally, still just

454
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: blow my mind. So Messi is incredibly fun. La Mignamal,

455
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: who I mentioned, is amazing. The French have some really

456
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 2: fun young players desire due Bradley Barcola. There's some real

457
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 2: young talents in this tournament, which is ironic because there's

458
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: also kind of this last dance energy for guys like

459
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: Ronaldo and Messi where we all thought that they were

460
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: done after the last World Cup and guitar and you're like, well,

461
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: surely are not going to play into their forties or

462
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: close to forty. It's like, oh, well, here they are

463
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: doing it again. So there might be a real changing

464
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,959
Speaker 2: in the guard at this tournament too.

465
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: I love that all right, So big picture question, what

466
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: do you think the trajectory of US soccer with some

467
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: of the ups, the downs, and now this trajectory where

468
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: we might actually start getting good. What do you feel

469
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: like that tells us about how institutions improve over the

470
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: long run, Like, what are some lessons we can pull

471
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: from that.

472
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: So one of the things that made me want to

473
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 2: write this book that I wrote about the US national team,

474
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: The Long Game, is just how completely that program had collapsed.

475
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: So in nineteen fifty the US scores one of the

476
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: great upsets to this day in World Cup history when

477
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: they beat England, won nothing with a team made up

478
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: of literally dishwashers and like paint strippers, and they play

479
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: the great England team and they beat them, and then

480
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: after that soccer just collapses in this country. They went

481
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: eleven years beween the nineteen fifties and sixties without winning

482
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: a single game, right, there were losing games, eight nothing,

483
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: ten nothing. They'd show up for World Cup qualifiers and

484
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 2: they'd be like, oh, there's no jerseys, or there's no balls,

485
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: or sometimes they didn't have a coach. They once turned

486
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: up to a game without enough players, and this is

487
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: a World Cup qualifier. This is like the biggest deal

488
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: outside of a World Cup, and they had to pull

489
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: a guy from the stands just to make up the numbers.

490
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: Right.

491
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: So to have come from that place, to start building

492
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: infrastructure again in the eighties, to regularly get back to

493
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: soccer in the nineties, and then by two thousand and

494
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: two to make it to a quarter final and to

495
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: become a fixture in the knockout stages at the World Cup.

496
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: I think what that all showed is that the work

497
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: that had to be done was structural and was organizational,

498
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: and they had to get the systems in place to

499
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: not just develop one team, but to keep developing teams,

500
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 2: and to create kind of frameworks that they could turn

501
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: to again and again. That built kind of a style

502
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: and an identity and some core values for how this

503
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: program was going to operate. That's really been the backbone

504
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: to what is a pretty miraculous rise in the sporting sense.

505
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: I love it all. Right, final question, who's your prediction

506
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,239
Speaker 1: for who wins it all.

507
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: I think France. I don't think they're going to look

508
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 2: very attractive doing it because their coach, Dida Descham, he's

509
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: won a World Cup as a player. He won a

510
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: World Cup as a coach in twenty eighteen. They lost

511
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: the final on penalties in twenty twenty two. They've mostly

512
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: done it playing pretty defensive, pragmatic soccer. This time around.

513
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: His arm might be twisted a little bit because they're

514
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: much stronger upfront than they are in midfield or defense.

515
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: But I think, nevertheless, he's going to sort of suffer ball,

516
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: as we call it, his way through this tournament. So

517
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: I think it'll be France because they have the talent

518
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: and the experience, but they won't be the best team

519
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: to look at.

520
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: I love it all right, Well, the book is the

521
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: long game, le Ander. Thanks so much for coming on.

522
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: Man.

523
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: That was fantastic. I feel like I'm up to date

524
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: on this World Cup thing. I'm ready to go. Awesome.

525
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: That's what we're here for.

526
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me all right now that we all

527
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: have a little bit of hope for good old Team USA,

528
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break and then we're

529
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: going to bring on, Daniel Jan who is going to

530
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: explain why that is really really good for us? Daniel,

531
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on.

532
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 3: Two percent, My pleasure, my pleasure. All right.

533
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: So you've been studying this psychology of sports fandom for

534
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: forty years. ESPN calls you doctor fandom. We're going to

535
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: get into some of the mental health benefits. But here's

536
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: what I thought was interesting. Your research suggests that rooting

537
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: for a distant team, so say I live in France,

538
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: but I'm rooting for team USA, doesn't give the same

539
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: benefits as following a local team.

540
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: Why is that? Why is that?

541
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: So that's what the theory says, that's what the framework says,

542
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 4: and truth and advertising. These are frameworks that were developed

543
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: prior to or at the start of social media becoming

544
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 4: what it is today. I and several of my colleagues

545
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 4: that study sport fandom have the absolute belief that any

546
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 4: theory or perspective that was developed on sport fandom more

547
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 4: than twenty years ago, more than fifteen years ago even

548
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 4: probably needs.

549
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: To be tweaked.

550
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: And I think this is a great example of where

551
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 4: that may be the case. The thinking at the time

552
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: when that approach was written and was clearly backed up

553
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 4: by the data was that if you are a local

554
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: sports fan, you're going to have readily available connections to

555
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: others around you. So let's say that you're a fan

556
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: of the Buffalo Bills and you're walking around the mall

557
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,239
Speaker 4: in Buffalo, Well, you're going to come across a lot

558
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: of people that share this powerful link with you.

559
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: You might not know their name, you.

560
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 4: Might not know what it work or what they do,

561
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 4: but you still see them wearing the attire and so

562
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 4: you know you have this connection. The reality was those

563
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: connections were much more difficult to find as a displaced

564
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: or distant fan. But that's fifteen or twenty years ago.

565
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 4: I don't think it's as difficult today. Certainly it's not

566
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 4: the same. So if you are a Manchester United fan

567
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 4: and it's twenty five years ago and you live in Boston,

568
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 4: it's really hard to feel connected to Manchester United fans.

569
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty six, it's a lot easier. Is it

570
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: the same as living in the environment where that team

571
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: is from.

572
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: No, it's not the same. But I do think that.

573
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 4: We're now seeing that there are benefits to being a

574
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 4: displaced fan that might not have been there before. Because

575
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: you can watch these things. You know, you can stream

576
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 4: the events while you're talking to other people across the globe,

577
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: and it's going to feel a little bit more like

578
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: you were actually there in that environment.

579
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: That makes sense, And I feel like so some of this,

580
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: a lot of this comes back to connection. I feel

581
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: like that's why to the rise of social media. For example,

582
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: in bigger cities, you would have bars that were specifically

583
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: for a team, like New York City would have a

584
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys band bar, they would have a Pittsburgh Steelers bar,

585
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: they would have a Red Sox bar. God forbid. So

586
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: is that kind of what people were after?

587
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly the point. So in Nashville there are

588
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: some Green Bay Packer bars. And so the thinking was,

589
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: and again the research would back this up that these

590
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: displaced fans, they may not get the like the trade level,

591
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: the enduring or chronic psychological benefits, but for those moments

592
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 4: in time when they found themselves consuming their team with

593
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 4: other fans. So, if you are a Packers fan and

594
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: you live in Nashville, then you're not getting any Packers

595
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: love throughout the week, but on the weekend, if you

596
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: head to the Packer bar, on a Sunday, there's one

597
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: hundred other packers fans there at that moment in time,

598
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: you'll get these state benefits.

599
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 3: Right, you're for that brief moment in time, those three

600
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: or four hours, your.

601
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: Sense of social connection will go up, your sense of

602
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 4: alienation will go down, your sense of isolation socially will

603
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 4: go down, your sense of self esteem through your group

604
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 4: memberships will go up. So you can get both these

605
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: temporary benefits from fandom, but also more of these chronic

606
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: benefits if you actually live in the environment where that

607
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 4: team is found.

608
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you hinted it some of the benefits, So what

609
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: are they? It's more social connection, less alienation, less isolation,

610
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: lower feelings of loneliness. Is that kind of what we're

611
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: talking about is doing this and that.

612
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: We're having a very difficult time finding a social benefit

613
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 4: that is not related to support fandom.

614
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: I think our list is up to like twenty eight different.

615
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 4: Measures of social well being, whether it's you know, social

616
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: self esteem or alienation, loneliness, anything connected to one's sense

617
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: of attachment to others stands to benefit through their attachment

618
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: to a sport team. Because when you attach to a

619
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 4: sport team, what that brings with it is other people.

620
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 4: And I absolutely believe, you know, my forty years of

621
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 4: doing this stuff on sport fans, if someone were to say,

622
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: what one word sums all this up without question, connections,

623
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 4: That's what it is. Whether it's a connection that the

624
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: fan has with the team, with the players, with the stadium,

625
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 4: with other fans. For heaven's sakes, how many other connections

626
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: can you go to an Ohio State football game?

627
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 3: Right?

628
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 4: There's one hundred thousand other connections that you can gain.

629
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: And that's not with the beer people and with the

630
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 4: popcorn people, and with the cheerleaders, and with the band

631
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 4: and the players and the other people in the press box.

632
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 4: So many connections to be gained through sport fandom, and

633
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: I think that's really, at the end of the day,

634
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: the primary driver of this pass time.

635
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. And you identified these four psychological

636
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: needs that fandom helps me. You want to walk us

637
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: through those so we kind of understand one is belonging

638
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: and then there's a few others.

639
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 3: Right.

640
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 4: One of the ways that my presentation of sport fandom

641
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: has changed over the years. Early on when I was

642
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: doing this stuff, I found out that the media really

643
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 4: likes to talk to people about sport fandom because the

644
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: vast majority of their listeners are sport fans, and so

645
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 4: it plays pretty well. So I found myself talking to

646
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 4: media types a lot back in the nineteen nineties and

647
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: the early two thousands, and I found people were very

648
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 4: genuinely interested in what I was doing, which was great.

649
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: But I would always sort of, you know, sort.

650
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: Of preface it with, well, let's remember, I'm not curing cancer,

651
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 4: you know, I'm just studying sports fans. I absolutely do

652
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: not qualify my research anymore, because we now know that

653
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 4: fandom is a much bigger deal, and we gave it

654
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 4: credit for decades past. We now know that sports fandom

655
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 4: is a primary conduit through which individuals are able to

656
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 4: meet multiple basic, innate psychological needs. I think first and foremost,

657
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: as you mentioned, was the need to belong. When you

658
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 4: ask fans which of these needs do they believe fantom

659
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: is best at meeting, they actual.

660
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: Will also say that it's the need to belong.

661
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 4: It provides people with a sense of community, with a

662
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 4: sense of camaraderie. However, that's just a tip of the iceberg.

663
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: It's a big tip. It's an important tip, but it's

664
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 4: just a tip of the iceberg. What you find is,

665
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 4: in addition to belonging, sport, fantom allows people to meet

666
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 4: their basic need for distinctiveness or uniqueness. We have a

667
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 4: desire to feel special. Sure, we want to fit in.

668
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 4: We want to feel some link with those around us.

669
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 4: But we don't want to be like carbon copies, right,

670
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 4: we don't want to be clones. I've always found it

671
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: interesting that when you talk to somebody as a big

672
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 4: sports fan and you find out where they're from, and

673
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 4: you say, okay, so you know what teams do you follow?

674
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 4: So you say to somebody who's from Kansas City, so

675
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: you know who are your favorite teams? Oh? I love

676
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 4: the Jayhawks from KU, and I love the Chiefs, and

677
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: I love the Royals.

678
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: And I love Manchester United.

679
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 4: And it always makes me laugh because, like that Sesame

680
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 4: Street song, these things is not like the other. One

681
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 4: of these things is not the same. There's always one

682
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 4: that stands out, and that's the one that allows them

683
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 4: to meet their need for belonging, to their need for distinctness,

684
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: so lets them feel that yeah, okay, unlike others, but

685
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: I'm not exactly like others. We want to fit in

686
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: while simultaneously standing out. Sports fantom really has the ability

687
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 4: to do that. A third important need is the need

688
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 4: for structure. I really don't believe that we have given

689
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 4: this need from a sports fandom perspective. It's it's due

690
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 4: credit because sports fanom allows fans to set their daily schedule,

691
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 4: their weekly schedule, they're they're seasonal, and they're monthly, and

692
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: their annual I mean, how many people sports fans and otherwise,

693
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 4: how many people already have on their calendar for the

694
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: next Super Bowl that they're going to throw their super

695
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 4: Bowl party for right? They set their whole you know,

696
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 4: winn calendar around our super Bowl party. I'll have as

697
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 4: an aside, The super Bowl next year follows on Valentine's Day,

698
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 4: so I think there's gonna be some interesting relationship negotiations that.

699
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: Will be going on.

700
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 4: But we set our daily calendars, our weekly calenters. Through

701
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 4: sport fandom. We had this need for structure. We have

702
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 4: a need for routine, and what better way to do

703
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: that than to know, well, okay, you know, it's the summertime,

704
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 4: so every night at seven thirty, there's gonna be a

705
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 4: baseball game.

706
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 3: It's it's the fall.

707
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 4: Every Saturday twelve o'clock three o'clock football Sunday twelve o'clock

708
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 4: three o'clock nighttime game. And it gives people a sense

709
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 4: of continuity throughout you know what for many people is

710
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 4: kind of disjointed chaotic lives. And fourth, and also, you

711
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 4: can't you can't undersell this is the need for meaning,

712
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 4: the need for purpose. Fantom gives individuals a reason to

713
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 4: wake up in the morning. And when fans are highly

714
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 4: invested in their team during the season, outside of the season,

715
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 4: they wake up and it gives them something to think about,

716
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 4: something to be excited about, something to care about. It's

717
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 4: interesting when researchers have done investigations on meaning and they

718
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 4: ask sports fans up front, how does fandom provide meaning?

719
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 4: They will tell you these researchers will tell you that

720
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 4: the most common response is it doesn't. And then the

721
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 4: researchers like, well, wait a minute, it doesn't. And then

722
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: when they explain to it, all of a sudden, the

723
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 4: fan realizes, oh wait, it actually does.

724
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 3: I think that fans they don't always.

725
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 4: Know, you know, just the ways that fanom is improving

726
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: and making a difference in their lives until they start

727
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 4: to actually think about it and then like, oh my gosh, yes,

728
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 4: it's a bigger deal than I even gave her credit for.

729
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, what that reminds me of a tool? Gowande the

730
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: doctor has this book called Being Mortal on end of

731
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: life care, and he was doing a bunch of surveys

732
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: and interviews around that and just thinking about, Okay, you know,

733
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: end of life care, how do we approach this? And

734
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: one of the anecdotes that stuck with me as a

735
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: father told their kids. Their kids were like, hey, how

736
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: long do you want us to keep you around with

737
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: the you know, advanced medical care when it's clear to

738
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: the end. And he stopped, and he goes, as long

739
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: as I can watch football while I eat ice cream,

740
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: keep me going. Once that stops, we're good. I'm good

741
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: to go.

742
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: You know.

743
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: That was like the thing that's like that get that

744
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: was the meaning piece, you know, and ideally with family

745
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: and others around.

746
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, life's simple pleasures, right, and.

747
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 3: You know it.

748
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 4: I love how that individual articulated that. But isn't that

749
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 4: true for so many people?

750
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 3: Right? And maybe not?

751
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 4: You know, how long should we keep you around? But

752
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 4: if you've asked people, you know, what what joys do

753
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: you find in life. So many sport bands will say,

754
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 4: you know, I think about growing up and watching games

755
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 4: with my family and with my friends, and and now

756
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 4: you know, I'm taking my own kids and my own

757
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: family going to supporting events. And again, I don't think

758
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 4: on the surface sport fans are sitting there, you know,

759
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 4: meditating and thinking about how fandom matters in these ways.

760
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: At least I hope they're not. That's my job.

761
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 4: But when you talk to them about it more in detail,

762
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: they they will all of a sudden have this almost

763
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 4: light bulb moment. It's it's fun actually as a researcher

764
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 4: to to bring these to their attention because you can

765
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: just see the wheels start to fire.

766
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 3: Go, oh, you're you're right.

767
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 4: This matters in profound and important ways that I quite

768
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 4: frankly didn't give it credit for.

769
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is is there a is there a dose?

770
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: So if you think about this as something in the person,

771
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: like what is what is the ideal approach for someone

772
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: to get the benefits? Or is or are we overthinking

773
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: it with that question?

774
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

775
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 4: I think that ideally we know that there's two routes

776
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 4: to well being through fandom. One is a function of

777
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 4: how well the team is performing, right, I mean, let's

778
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 4: not kid ourselves winning beast losing right, I mean winning

779
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 4: smiles not so much with losing.

780
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 3: The second route through the connections to other people.

781
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 4: It's not a function of the team's success, so it's

782
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 4: a function of simply having those social connections that come

783
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 4: through the team. I guess then the best of all

784
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 4: worlds would be finding yourself in an environment where you

785
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: have attached to a successful team, a team that wins

786
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 4: a lot and also happens to have a strong following,

787
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 4: so you have connections to others. That's the ideal approach.

788
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 4: The problem with that is that losing is much more

789
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: frequent in sport than winning.

790
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 3: I always like to think.

791
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 4: About like the NC DOUBA basketball teamise so many well

792
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 4: people will point out that the NC DOUBA Men's basketball

793
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 4: tournament is like the greatest sports spectacle way.

794
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 3: That we have out there.

795
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 4: Now, Okay, well, there's like over three hundred and fifty

796
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 4: men's teams. Only one of those fan bases at the

797
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 4: end of the season is actually smiling. So if you're

798
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 4: going to put all of your chips on that route,

799
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 4: I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. I would

800
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 4: suggest if you have to choose go the route with

801
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 4: the connections, because it's not there just a function of

802
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 4: how good your team is.

803
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 3: It's always there.

804
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in terms of connections, do these have to

805
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: be in person? So that what I'm thinking about is,

806
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: unfortunately I'm along suffering Utah jazz Man. So when they're

807
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: playing and when they're good, which is rare. My friends

808
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: from Utah and I live in Las Vegas. Now we'll

809
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: text about the games. We'll be going back and forth.

810
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: But I'm watching alone because my wife not a huge

811
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: basketball fan. Am I still getting those connections via text

812
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: via occasional phone conversations about the team?

813
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 3: Yeah?

814
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely. That's actually some of the more recent research is

815
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: that we're starting to find scientifically that people are gaining

816
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 4: or connections and as a consequence, these important wellbeing benefits

817
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 4: through this displaced fandom. So you don't have to be

818
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 4: in the arena. You can be at home watching it

819
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 4: on TV. You can be at work and just conversing

820
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: with some work colleagues about the game. And also it's

821
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 4: also it's critically important to know that these connections, they

822
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: do not have to be deep. We know from research

823
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: and forwards fandom, but also general social psychology that even

824
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 4: very peripheral, temporary, quick, almost naive types of relationships matter.

825
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 4: Just a high to a stranger on the street is

826
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: enough to give this person a sense of connectivity. So

827
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: the high to the stranger who happens to also be

828
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 4: wearing the Utah Jazz baseball cap, that's just, you know,

829
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 4: doubly good.

830
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: I suppose we're going to take a quick b Then

831
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask Daniel if this research applies to all

832
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: the other strange fandoms we can get into book clubs, movies,

833
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: or my personal favorite, the Grateful Dead. Does this same

834
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: phenomenon broadly apply to anything with a fan base? I'll

835
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: give you an example. I'm also a big fan of

836
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead, and so if I'm wearing one of

837
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: my Grateful Dead shirts in public, like I was at

838
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: Costco three months ago and I'm wearing a Jerry Garcia

839
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: T shirt It's tied die of course, because it has

840
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: to be, and the guy, yeah guy comes up to

841
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: me and he goes, oh, do you see the Dead

842
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: shows at the sphere And we start talking for like

843
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: thirty minutes. So can these same phenomenon be found in

844
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: any sort of niche fandom.

845
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's nothing that says you can't gain psychological benefits

846
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 4: basically from any connection. Certainly people have done this through work,

847
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: through religious affiliations, through f attorneys and sororities for many,

848
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 4: many decades. I will, however, say that there's a couple

849
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: of things about sports fandom that make it unique and

850
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 4: perhaps particularly well positioned to lead to these benefits. One,

851
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 4: it is absolutely a social endeavor. It's not just social

852
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 4: before you consume and after you consume. It's social while

853
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 4: you consume. So grateful Dead concerts also have this benefit

854
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 4: to it.

855
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: Right, So.

856
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 4: People can gain important connections through opera fandom through book clubs.

857
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: You're not supposed to be social while consuming those things.

858
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: Right.

859
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 4: If you are social while watching the opera, they're going

860
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: to ask you to no longer watch the opera.

861
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 3: You'll get escorted out Right.

862
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 4: You can he belonged to a book club and talk

863
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 4: about the book after you've read it.

864
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: You're not talking about the book while you're reading it. Right.

865
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones.

866
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: When Game of Thrones was on and I would be

867
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 4: at a home and my kids would be watching it,

868
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 4: there was no talking, right, I mean, every cell phone

869
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 4: was off, the lights were out. If the door bell rang,

870
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: too bad for whoever's package arrived, the door's not being

871
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 4: opened up now after the fact, loss of discussion. Sports fandom,

872
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 4: we are social before, during, and after. That's one way

873
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 4: it's different from many other types of fandoms. And a

874
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 4: second critically important way is, so, how many Grateful Dead

875
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: concerts have you seen? Oh it's thirty, okay, and what's

876
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 4: your favorite song?

877
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: My favorite song is probably Brown Eyed Women.

878
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 3: Excellent, and that song never changes.

879
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, there are you know idiots singer seation

880
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: one concert to another, it doesn't change. My wife Michelle

881
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: and I went to our fourth Alabama concert the other night,

882
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 4: and let's not kid ourselves. One of the nice things

883
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 4: about concerts is they're supposed to sort up play the

884
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 4: songs the way you remember hearing them on the radio

885
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 4: and things like that. Okay, it doesn't matter how many

886
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 4: times you go to a Star Wars movie, Darth Vader

887
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 4: always ends up being Luke Skywalker's father.

888
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: YEA sport is different because the outcome is not scripted.

889
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 4: You don't know, and so that intensifies everything, That intensifies

890
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 4: the emotional reactions It intensifies the stress and the anxiety.

891
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 3: It intensifies the build up.

892
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 4: If you intensify emotions and then you gain connections through something,

893
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 4: the emotion side to those connections will be just that

894
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 4: much greater. Right, So, because you don't know what's happening,

895
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: you literally see fans like holding on to each other,

896
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: like what's going to happen next. I don't think that

897
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 4: anybody who's going to see a Star Wars move the

898
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 4: eighth time is holding on to each other trying to

899
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 4: figure out what's going to happen next.

900
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: Right, you know it's going to happen.

901
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: Sport is different, and when those perfect moments do happen

902
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: in sports, especially if you are with other people. You

903
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: could be at the stadium, but you could also be

904
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: at like a packed bar watching the game. It's just

905
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: this big moment. It's like this collective effort. Vescence is

906
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: a term that I've heard thrown around, And what is

907
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: it about those moments that just like those are iconic

908
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: in American history. Like when we think of American history

909
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: and we showed the sort of photo book, there's like

910
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: the typical things you think, but then there's also Muhammad

911
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: Ali standing over you know, and then there's also miracle

912
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: on ice, Like these moments are sports in a universe

913
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 1: like the world would go on maybe if we didn't

914
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: have sports, but these moments are so important nonetheless for

915
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: our sense of community.

916
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, I think that is another way that

917
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 4: we establish our routine means around sport, not just what

918
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: we think is going to happen, but our recollections of

919
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 4: life are based on these events, right, They're structured around

920
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 4: these events.

921
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: You know, they talk a lot about for the.

922
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 4: Athletes side of sports psychology and athletes get into a flow.

923
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 4: I've been asked before, you know, what's the sport fan

924
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: equivalent of that, And I honestly believe it's when a

925
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 4: sport fan finds themselves at the event when one of

926
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 4: those moments is going down, or perhaps when they're they're

927
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 4: watching one of those moments with family and friends. I

928
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 4: distinctly remember where I was when the Miracle on Ice happened.

929
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 4: I was in a motel six at near a ski

930
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 4: resort in Minnesota, very cold, by the way, with my

931
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 4: younger brother and my father, right, and I can distinctly

932
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 4: remember the entire event. And this has been a while now, right,

933
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 4: I think that when fans are lucky enough to find

934
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 4: themselves in a tendance at those events where they are

935
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 4: seeing things that obviously they didn't know that they were

936
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 4: going to see, because again, these aren't scripted events, and

937
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 4: it becomes so so memorable that they are life changing,

938
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 4: not in the sense of more money, you know, not

939
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 4: in the sense of a better job, but in a

940
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: sense of they have now gained a memory that nobody

941
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 4: can take away from them. Knicks fans that happen to

942
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 4: be in San Antonio, right, they will never forget that.

943
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 4: And when they are asked, you know, what's their best memory,

944
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 4: they will say, as they pause and decide not to

945
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 4: say watching the Knicks, and then say my wedding and

946
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 4: the birth of my child. And then they'll say they're

947
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 4: watching the Knicks win, because you know, they don't want

948
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 4: to get in trouble. The people that watch the Cubs

949
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 4: win after, you know, they just had one bounced one

950
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 4: down century. What's so aboud about one down century? They

951
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 4: they talk and reminisce about, you know what it was

952
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 4: like watching it at the bar with their friends, or

953
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 4: you know, at the event years ago. The racers were

954
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 4: having a really, really good basketball season, the men's team,

955
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 4: and it was back when they had those you know,

956
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 4: ESP would put on those matchups midway through the spring

957
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 4: semester where they'd bring in really good teams to play.

958
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 4: One of the mid majors would play one another in

959
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 4: these bracketbuster competitions.

960
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 3: And we had a top ranks team.

961
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 4: And they brought Saint Mary's with Matthew Delvadova to come

962
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 4: play our team, and Dick Vitel shows up to do

963
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 4: the commentary, and everybody that was there still talks about

964
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 4: it as the event. I mean, it wasn't a championship game.

965
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 4: Yes we won, but we didn't win a trophy or anything. Right,

966
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 4: it was just a non conference game. But people that

967
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 4: were there talk about it in a way that there's

968
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 4: reverence in the way they talk about it.

969
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting too is, you know, you could

970
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: probably argue that America is more politically divided than it

971
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: has been in the last you know, fifty hundred years,

972
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 1: whatever number you want to put on it. But sports

973
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: kind of gets past that, right. It's like you have

974
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: a you're in a bar watching a game wherever it

975
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: might be, you don't you don't see the person who's

976
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: fan of the same team of you and goes, hey,

977
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: who did you vote for?

978
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 3: Oh?

979
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: Okay, now that we have that prior, we can talk

980
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: about that Like that doesn't happen. People just talk and

981
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: connect over it. It kind of crosses a lot of

982
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: these issues we have.

983
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, they've they've talked about sport being the

984
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 4: great equalizer. I could argue that fanninm is the great

985
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 4: unifier because it really does cut across demographics, politics, and

986
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 4: so on and so forth. If you're a fan of

987
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 4: my team when we are consuming our team, I will

988
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 4: forgive you for all of your other transgressions. I don't

989
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 4: care about your politics, your religion. Now you know, once

990
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 4: the game is over, the all bets maybe off. But

991
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 4: we do share this common bond. And what they've actually

992
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 4: found is that by like making these common bonds salient,

993
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 4: you can actually reduce inner group conflict.

994
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 3: It's quite an effective way by by letting people know.

995
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: Wait, sure you have this group membership that is in

996
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: opposition in the rival of this other, but yet you

997
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 4: share this same common bond. You can you can take

998
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 4: two rival sports teams, but when you remind them at

999
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 4: the end of the day, you're both soccer fans. It

1000
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: has the ability to reduce the animosity between the two groups.

1001
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like you're kind of seeing that now

1002
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: with the World Cup. So you have all these people

1003
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: from across across the world coming to the United States

1004
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 1: of America, and you've seen these amazing reels on Instagram

1005
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: and TikTok where you have you know, Germans coming in

1006
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: and they're going going to tackle Dow. We've never been

1007
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: to Taco Bell. This place is a holy grail, and

1008
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: it's just been this like amazing melding of people coming

1009
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: in and experiencing America and really loving it, almost at

1010
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: a time where I feel like we kind.

1011
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: Of need it.

1012
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not a bad time right now in our

1013
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 4: country to have people from other countries go, hey, it's

1014
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 4: all right over here.

1015
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a pretty good thing.

1016
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break. Then I'll ask

1017
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: Daniel if this research also helps our physical health, not

1018
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: just mental health. Turns out it might. Sports stadiums in particular,

1019
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: a lot of times they'll get pushed back because it's

1020
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: going to cost a lot of taxpayer dollars to build

1021
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: this stadium. From your research, could you almost argue though,

1022
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: that having a strong sports culture in a city is

1023
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: almost a means of improving public health.

1024
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean the research is very clear on that,

1025
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 4: not just mental health and physical health. I mean, if

1026
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 4: you make individuals aware the sport by hosting an event,

1027
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 4: I mean there's going to be a trickle down to

1028
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 4: where maybe they're going to want to go out and

1029
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: try that sport, right. I mean you could think of

1030
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: situations in the US right now where you know, families

1031
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 4: are watching the World Cup and the eight year old

1032
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 4: kid is like, hey, Dad, let's go outside and kick

1033
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 4: around the soccer ball.

1034
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: Right, Hey, mom, let's go around. Let's go kick out

1035
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: the soccer ball.

1036
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 4: So there's no reason to think that it wouldn't trickle

1037
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 4: down physically as well as psychologically. You know, it's such

1038
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 4: a great debate as to is there ultimately a bang

1039
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 4: for the buck, because let's not kid ourselves. It's a

1040
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 4: lot of buck, right, I Mean, it's not like you're

1041
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 4: talking about, oh yeah, we should spend another one hundred

1042
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 4: thousand dollars to build a stadium. You're a lot of

1043
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: zero shy when you say things like that. I mean

1044
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 4: it's almost like for tend money it's monopoly money, right,

1045
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 4: And so I mean, certainly there's data out there that

1046
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 4: show that there are situations where, you know, economies probably

1047
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:09,280
Speaker 4: haven't made back what they wanted by building these stadiums.

1048
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 4: But how do you put a dollar figure on giving

1049
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 4: members of your community important way to connect.

1050
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 3: I don't know how you put a dollar figure on that.

1051
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 4: I just know that when communities decide not to build

1052
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 4: the stadiums, decide not to be held hostage quite frankly

1053
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 4: for building these stadiums, and then the team moves, you know,

1054
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 4: there are a lot of people whose lives are they're

1055
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 4: negatively touched by that, right.

1056
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 3: I mean there's a loss.

1057
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 4: You don't want to say this's a loss equivalent to

1058
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 4: a loss of a loved one, but it's a close second.

1059
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 4: I mean, talk to lifelong fans of the Oakland A's

1060
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 4: right when they left town. I mean it's I had

1061
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 4: some people would say to me, it's not like I

1062
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 4: lost a loved one, but it's like I lost a limb.

1063
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: Which is pretty good, right. I mean, that's that's not like,

1064
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: you know, okay, I didn't lose a goldfish. You know,

1065
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 3: I lost my arm.

1066
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 4: Part of us is ripped away when these teams lose,

1067
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 4: and so how do you how do you pray place

1068
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 4: that financial value on that?

1069
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, right, I don't. I don't know what

1070
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 3: that number is.

1071
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 4: So you know they're As a fan of Kansas City teams,

1072
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 4: certainly we always seem to be threatened to have the

1073
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 4: Royals leave us or something. And I know that it

1074
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 4: would be a great loss for that community, for the

1075
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of Royals and the millions of Royals

1076
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 4: fans in the greater area. What's the dollar of value

1077
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 4: on that? Did they get the money back by billion

1078
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 4: new stadium?

1079
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. Psychologically it's of critical importance.

1080
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'll tell you on the flip side. Living

1081
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, I feel like this team or this

1082
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: city really became united and found an identity beyond just like,

1083
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we're the place that people come in for

1084
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: three days to lose their money and go home. Once

1085
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: we got the Golden Knights, like that was this great

1086
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: unifier and the city almost took on. Okay, we're a

1087
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: real city now because we have the Golden Knights, and

1088
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: just the amount of things that happen around the Knights

1089
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: in this town are unbelievable.

1090
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it really didn't surprise any of us who

1091
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 4: study sports fan scientifically because of the way that community

1092
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 4: would rally around you know, the basketball those those year.

1093
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, that's pretty good fan passion, but

1094
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 4: behind those teams and so why would you not expect

1095
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 4: them to be able to say, oh, this is now

1096
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,959
Speaker 4: our own professional team now you know, up the game

1097
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 4: a little bit. No surprise at all, and you know

1098
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 4: your gain is another community's loss.

1099
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love what you said in the beginning

1100
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: about how a lot of sort of points of view

1101
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,479
Speaker 1: in this research space are changing because of the rise

1102
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: of online digital media. We hear so much about, you know,

1103
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: negativity about I don't know, social media and all this.

1104
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: You know, we spend too much time on our devices,

1105
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: but if you're using it in a way that sort

1106
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: of builds this connection to sports and other people. And

1107
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: I even think of something like fantasy football, like playing

1108
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: that in the past used to be a huge pain,

1109
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: no one did it, But now every single year I

1110
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: have the same core group of ten guys I went

1111
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: to high school with, and we always do fantasy football,

1112
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: and we're always going to connect around that. For the NFL, season.

1113
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 4: Fantasy football is an interesting thing, right, I mean I

1114
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 4: go back to the early eighties when rotisserie baseball had

1115
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 4: just started out, and we were playing that stuff back

1116
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 4: in the eighties, and we would have to call different

1117
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 4: cities newspapers to try and get intel on the players.

1118
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 4: I remember calling the like the Los Angeles newspapers. You know,

1119
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 4: Tom Meanfield are going to be the closer for the

1120
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 4: Dodgers because there was no intel. Now everybody knows all

1121
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 4: the same things, and it allows people again to structure

1122
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 4: their lives in ways that give them connections to others.

1123
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 4: And you again, I don't know how you place a

1124
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 4: dollar figure on that those are invaluable.

1125
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: We certainly.

1126
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 4: See the value of fantasy football, and instantly enough, so

1127
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 4: does the NFL.

1128
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: You know, they were absolutely against.

1129
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 4: That to begin with, right, I mean they're like, we

1130
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: don't want the fantasy football is going to take over

1131
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 4: and it's going to change how people watch games. And

1132
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 4: then somebody at their office said, well, you know, it

1133
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 4: might change how they watch games by changing it so

1134
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 4: that they watch more games where their team isn't playing.

1135
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 3: And now you've got things like you know what red zone.

1136
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 4: Which is just a fantasy football channel, right, just to

1137
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 4: watch your players try and score touchdowns. And the NFL

1138
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 4: is all about fantasy football because they figured out that, hey,

1139
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 4: when TV's are turned on, that's a good thing, regardless

1140
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 4: of why the TV has turned on.

1141
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there any way that being into can you

1142
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: overdo interest in sports? Is there ever any time where

1143
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: you overdo it it starts to become a negative in

1144
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: your life?

1145
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:12,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1146
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: You can overdo everything, right, right, I mean you can

1147
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 4: overdo your job, you can overdo school, you can overdo

1148
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 4: you know how much you check up on your kids, right,

1149
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 4: I mean everything can be overdone. And you know, I

1150
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 4: think that when I'm lecturing on this in my class,

1151
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 4: you know, I always tell the students that we're going

1152
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 4: to paint a picture that shows that fandom is a

1153
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 4: very positive thing for individuals and societies. But we're also

1154
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 4: going to be absolutely honest admit that there's a darker

1155
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 4: side as well. I mean, there are people that they

1156
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 4: get too wrapped up in these things, then they get violent.

1157
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 4: There are people that spend too much time doing these things,

1158
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 4: and you know, their relationships can suffer, their work productivity

1159
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 4: can suffer. Certainly, now we're seeing that there are people

1160
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 4: that you know fall and praise gambling addiction from sport wagering.

1161
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 4: I think that first and foremost, you have to acknowledge

1162
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 4: that that's the case. It's the case with every pastime.

1163
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 4: And then also I think you have to say and

1164
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 4: being honest with the fact that it's extremely rare. The

1165
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 4: number of relationships, for example, that are negatively impacted by

1166
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 4: sports fandom is like one to two percent. But although

1167
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 4: that's a very minuscule number, one to two percent of

1168
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 4: all of the people in the US that are sports fans,

1169
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 4: that number is a lot of people.

1170
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 3: So I think it's worthy of study. You just have

1171
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 3: to keep it in perspective.

1172
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, all right. Final question, If someone

1173
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: is listening to this and they're like, you know, I

1174
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: haven't really done into sports, but this is I think

1175
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: you might have sold me on this thing, where do

1176
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: they start? What's the playbook?

1177
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 3: Is that?

1178
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: Like, find a local team. What do you suggest?

1179
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1180
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 4: I think that my suggestion would be find a friend,

1181
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 4: a loved one, family member that has a deep and

1182
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 4: let's given our previous conversation about overdoing it, a deep

1183
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 4: and you know, reasonable connection to a sport team, and

1184
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 4: ask if you can tag along to an event, right,

1185
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 4: ask if you can, you know, kind of like glum

1186
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 4: off on you and go to the event and see

1187
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 4: what this is all about. And I think that a

1188
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 4: fair number of them will find out, you know what,

1189
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 4: this is actually quite fun, This is actually quite enjoyable.

1190
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 4: Not everybody will write sports is and for everybody, neither

1191
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 4: is the opera, right, but certainly there are people who

1192
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,439
Speaker 4: have gone to their first opera.

1193
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 3: And now they love the opera. There are people to

1194
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 3: go to their first sporting event.

1195
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 4: But go with a friend, go with a family member,

1196
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 4: someone who knows the details of the team and can

1197
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 4: explain things to you, and that will give you insight

1198
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: to the team, to the sport, and you won't just

1199
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 4: be sitting there and.

1200
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 3: Wondering what in the world is going on? Right now?

1201
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: I love it all, right, final question, Danny, you talked

1202
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: about how there's distinctiveness is one of the key components.

1203
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: Everyone has their sesame street team. This team, this one

1204
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: is not like the others. What's your sesame street team?

1205
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1206
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 4: I suppose I got a lot of them because I'm

1207
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 4: a displaced fan, right. I absolutely, first and foremost love

1208
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 4: the Murray State Racers. The men's basketball team. That's where

1209
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 4: my wife and I with Michelle and I met. We

1210
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 4: have the best tickets in the house. We have center

1211
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 4: court on the aisle, third row up. But I'm from Kansas,

1212
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 4: so I'm a Jayhawk fan in Kentucky, so you know

1213
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 4: that's that's enemy territory. I'm a Royal fan where everybody

1214
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 4: here loves the Cardinals. I'm a Chiefs fan where people

1215
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 4: love the Titans. So my wife is an Ohio State grad,

1216
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 4: so we like Ohio State. So I have a lot

1217
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 4: more ways that I'm unique as a fan. Right, my

1218
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 4: distinctiveness is greater than my belonging. But because the Racers

1219
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 4: are such a powerful draw, it probably works.

1220
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 3: Out to be fifty to fifty.

1221
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: There you go.

1222
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 3: I like it.

1223
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of people today. People are

1224
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: moving around more than ever. It's like you kind of

1225
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: pick your teams. You get maybe one in the city

1226
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: you're in great, but you have these ancillary teams and

1227
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: you kind of bundle it up and it all turns.

1228
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: Out to be good exactly. Well.

1229
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: With all that said, long lived Sports and Daniel, thanks

1230
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: for coming on the show.

1231
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely my pleasure.

1232
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for checking out the show. Thanks to Leander and

1233
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: Daniel for coming on to talk about Team USA and

1234
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: sports in general. As a reminder, we are in your

1235
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: feed twice a week, so please keep an eye out

1236
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: for more. Don't forget to hit subscribe. That way you

1237
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: get those updates. And you know what, I'm a fan

1238
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: of more apps on my phone, which brings me to

1239
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: the iHeart Video app. You can download it and you

1240
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: can watch these episodes at any time as always, have fun,

1241
01:04:52,840 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: don't die, who HIGs Con