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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Man, welcome back to George Noori with David Politis. David

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Speaker 2: not counting these missing military men and the women, perhaps

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Speaker 2: how many people have disappeared in the state of Washington.

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Speaker 3: Well, you got to be careful here because it's it's

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Speaker 3: not just people who have disappeared, it's people that just

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Speaker 3: fit this profile that we're looking at. And we're approaching

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Speaker 3: one hundred. With the book that I put out, I

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Speaker 3: like to put out a driving map as well, and

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Speaker 3: there's a full driving map with the book with all

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Speaker 3: the disappearances that I've researched in Washington plotted on the map.

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Speaker 3: And the largest cluster of missing people in Washington is

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Speaker 3: not Rainier. There's I don't like to write about missing

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Speaker 3: climbers technical climbers because that can always kind of be

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Speaker 3: explained away. And I'm want to go into a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of detail about the fifteen. But there is one

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Speaker 3: case that I wanted to talk about that happened on Rainier,

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Speaker 3: and it was the disappearance of two guys named Chris

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Speaker 3: Hartonis and Raymond Vakili. Chris was forty years old Aikili

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Speaker 3: was forty eight. They went missing November fifth, nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 3: and they were at a place called Camp Mrror on

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Speaker 3: Mount Rainier, on the Mure Snowfield. It's on the south

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Speaker 3: side of Rainier and the route to that area of

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Speaker 3: the hut, and they were going to stay it starts

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Speaker 3: at a place called Paradise at the bottom of the mountain.

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Speaker 3: And Paradise used to be a golf course in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirties and then in the seventies it was a

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Speaker 3: ski resort. They took that all away and now it's

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Speaker 3: an area to start a climb. But MPs stated in

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Speaker 3: their research that Hartonis was the most experienced person, traveling

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Speaker 3: to the Mure Hut over one hundred times in seasons

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Speaker 3: of all types of weather. It was an FAA engineer

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Speaker 3: living in Seattle, and the Kiwi was a friend of

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Speaker 3: Hardtonis's and he had an equal amount of experience. And

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Speaker 3: then there was one other guy that started the trip

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Speaker 3: with these two and they had summitted dozens and dozens

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Speaker 3: of times. Well, this group of three left on November fifth.

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Speaker 3: The third person in the party was kind of dragging

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Speaker 3: behind an old sweat of his in the snow got

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Speaker 3: tired real quick and he decided, Hey, I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to go back to the car and meet you guys

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Speaker 3: later when you're done. And again that's that point of

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Speaker 3: separation I told you about earlier. Exactly Well, the pair

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Speaker 3: Artonas and Bikili were seeing ascending a location called Panorama

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Speaker 3: Point by one of their friends. That's the last time

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Speaker 3: they were ever seeing. Now, a lot of people would

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Speaker 3: just sign this off and say eye, you know, they

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Speaker 3: have no big deal. It's just a couple of guys.

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Speaker 3: But the statements that NPS made National Park Service is

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Speaker 3: what really keyped me on this case. Now, the pair

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Speaker 3: didn't return and the National Park Service got involved, and

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Speaker 3: it was a November tenth article that had this statement

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Speaker 3: from the spokesman for the National Park Service, Mark Morgan quote,

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Speaker 3: Hartonis is probably one of the most experienced people in

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Speaker 3: the world on the mere snowfield. And then after that quote,

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Speaker 3: he said, bad weather hamper the search while the Army

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Speaker 3: sent helicopters and canines were used in this ten day

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Speaker 3: search looking for these two. After that initial ten day search,

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Speaker 3: and you got to remember the dragon sleds that had

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Speaker 3: their stuff on it, nothing was found and Mark Gautier

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Speaker 3: from the National Park Service made this statement, and this

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Speaker 3: is pretty sobering. This is the fourth serious incident on

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Speaker 3: the Mirror snowfield in nineteen ninety nine. It's difficult to

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Speaker 3: speculate what exactly happened to the men. It's perplexing when

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Speaker 3: two experienced, cautious and mature climbers just disappear. They were

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Speaker 3: well equipped in our tonas was very familiar with the area.

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Speaker 3: Both men have a history of good decision making in

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Speaker 3: the mountains, and neither had a reputation of pushing it.

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Speaker 3: Efforts to locate them will resume this summer when the

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Speaker 3: winter snowfalls begin to melt. It is hoped that clues

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Speaker 3: will be revealed. Well, there was a second search that summer.

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Speaker 3: Nothing was found, and to this day nothing has ever

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Speaker 3: been found of Chris Artonis and Raymond Vikieley.

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Speaker 2: Oh bizarre. And they were prepared for the elements too,

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Speaker 2: weren't they, Like.

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Speaker 3: The National Parks of said George, They were some of

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Speaker 3: the most experienced men in the world on that part

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Speaker 3: of the mountain. And when the Park Service comes out

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Speaker 3: and says things just like that, I've never heard him

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Speaker 3: say anything like that before. So I pay attention, and

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Speaker 3: it's so unusual to have two people disappear. And these

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Speaker 3: sleds they're dragging are probably five feet long. They're not

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Speaker 3: going to go away. These things are huge. I can't

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Speaker 3: believe it.

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Speaker 2: As long as you have snow that it's not too

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Speaker 2: difficult to pull right. Exactly exactly do they have weapons? David?

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Speaker 2: Do you know?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, climbers don't usually carry weapons. They're heavy,

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Speaker 3: and you know, they're bulky, and there's really no reason

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Speaker 3: at those altitudes in their mind to be carrying anything

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Speaker 3: like that. So I've never known a climber to carry one.

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Speaker 2: What are their family members?

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Speaker 3: Say? That's a very good question. And they never came

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Speaker 3: forward and said anything to the press, And I've never

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Speaker 3: heard anything more about this since it happened.

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Speaker 2: What does your gut tell you?

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Speaker 3: You know, when you think about well, first of all,

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Speaker 3: there's other things that have happened high up on that

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Speaker 3: mountain that are very strange that are in the book.

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Speaker 3: But the man when the Mark Park Service says these

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Speaker 3: people just disappeared, those were his words, Those weren't mine.

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Speaker 3: What did they disappear too? And they bring canines and

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Speaker 3: the canines can't track where they went to. And we're

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Speaker 3: talking about twenty five years from the time this happened.

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Speaker 3: There's been significant loss of snow and ice on the mountain.

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Speaker 3: Where did they go?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if their bodies are there, the canines would

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Speaker 2: have found it right exactly.

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Speaker 3: And they rolled cadaver dogs through there, so cadavergart could

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Speaker 3: pick up a cadaver doog could pick up a cent

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Speaker 3: five miles away.

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Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. I know you're hesitant to take a position

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Speaker 2: on any of this, but you've got to have ruled

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Speaker 2: some things in and out in your in your own

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Speaker 2: personal mind.

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Speaker 3: And that's a good angle. I'm glad you brought that up.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that we go through in

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Speaker 3: picking a case to do research on is we have

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Speaker 3: to eliminate number one, animal predation on the side of

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Speaker 3: rain ear up that high. No, there's not there's something

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Speaker 3: that's going to eat these guys up. Now, if you're

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Speaker 3: in the North Cascades National Park, yeah, maybe there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a grizzly there or a mountain lion that

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Speaker 3: could take you out. So when search and Rescue goes

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Speaker 3: in there, we read the reports and we see if

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Speaker 3: there's any evidence of animal predation. If there is, we

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Speaker 3: won't read the report. We're done reading it. You're done now.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is some people want to disappear, and

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Speaker 3: it's not against the law to disappear. If you don't

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Speaker 3: want to be found, so be it. So if that's

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Speaker 3: a choice, and they the Park Service or the search

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Speaker 3: and rescue teams believe it is, that's another one that

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Speaker 3: we'll just pass on. But in the grand scheme of

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Speaker 3: things and national parks are research and rescue people and

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Speaker 3: the private search and rescue teams that work away from

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Speaker 3: the park. They're well attuned to what they're looking for

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Speaker 3: and they'll write it down on their reports. So when

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Speaker 3: we start looking at a case, first thing I'm looking

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Speaker 3: for is how did the canines react when they were

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Speaker 3: put on the scent.

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Speaker 2: It's dramatic, David. And it's all over the country, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It's not just Washington.

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Speaker 3: Well, we put out a map of the United States

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Speaker 3: in southern Canada and there's sixty four clusters of missing

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Speaker 3: people throughout the United States. Now there's a swath down

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Speaker 3: the middle of the US north to south where on

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Speaker 3: that map there's hardly anybody missing, and in Missing full

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Speaker 3: One won the UFO connection. In the documentary we did.

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Speaker 3: I got a call one time from a guy who

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Speaker 3: worked for the government. He said, Dave, please look at this.

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Speaker 3: Look at the Ogalla aquifer and you're going to see

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Speaker 3: that the aquifer almost lays perfectly over your area. And

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Speaker 3: I did, and son of a gun, it does. And

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Speaker 3: one of the things that we work on when we're

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Speaker 3: working these missing persons cases is to keep an eye

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Speaker 3: on water, because in almost every one of these cases,

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Speaker 3: water plays into it somehow. And in the UFO connection,

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Speaker 3: there's a story in there in the movie about a

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Speaker 3: guy in with Wyoming. He was a farmer and he

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Speaker 3: was dying out there because he didn't have any water,

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Speaker 3: and he had a couple of people come out and

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Speaker 3: try to drill for him, and he couldn't find any

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Speaker 3: And he said that some UFOs flew over his land

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Speaker 3: and landed there. Two aliens walk over to him and

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Speaker 3: pointed to a place in the ground and told him

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Speaker 3: to drill there. Geez, this is a truth, that's right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people won't believe this, but when I

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Speaker 3: came out with this story, a guy from Los Angeles

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Speaker 3: who was part of a film crew for the local

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Speaker 3: news went there, and he has footage when they were

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Speaker 3: there interviewing this guy of UFOs in the sky above

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Speaker 3: the property when they were there by a long story

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Speaker 3: short Georgia. The guy wants land, tries to get some

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Speaker 3: people to come out and drill, and they said, hey,

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Speaker 3: there's no water there, We've already drilled once. We're not

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Speaker 3: going to steal your money and drill again. He buys

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Speaker 3: an old army tank and he does this makeshift drill

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Speaker 3: and he drills on the spot and he hits a

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Speaker 3: huge gush room. Nobody can believe it. Now, here's the

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Speaker 3: thing that even the person who told me about the

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Speaker 3: Oglalla aquifer did not know. That guy hit an arm

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Speaker 3: of the aquifer going into Wyoming.

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Speaker 2: But what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 3: So aquifers have these arms that come off of underground.

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Speaker 3: One of these arms from the aquifer extended into Wyoming,

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Speaker 3: you mean like extensions. Yeah, and this guy hit an

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Speaker 3: arm of the Ogolalla aquifer. And how strange is that?

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Speaker 3: Why would aliens want him to drill there and even

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Speaker 3: have access to the water for themselves?

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Speaker 2: Maybe I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know, but that swath of land down the middle of

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Speaker 3: the US is where the aquifer is at, and we

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Speaker 3: don't have any missing people from there, hardly any. I

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Speaker 3: mean there's there's a couple, but nothing really of.

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Speaker 2: The missing people, David. How many have UFO reports surrounding

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Speaker 2: these stories?

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Speaker 3: Almost none, okay, almost none. But we've done research on

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Speaker 3: databanks to see if there's a history in that area.

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Speaker 3: And in that in the movie The UFO Connection, we

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Speaker 3: did a big segment on the area around Cheyenne, Wyoming

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Speaker 3: and where this guy hit Discussure and there's a series

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Speaker 3: of hunters we highlighted in the movie that are missing

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Speaker 3: from this area north west of Cheyenne, and all of

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Speaker 3: the hunters in that area were all German.

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Speaker 2: That's peculiar, I'd say, So do you put all this

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Speaker 2: into a computer base?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, we've worked it three ways to Sunday.

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Speaker 2: And are you getting any common denominators for five points? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: German another one part of that list. I didn't get

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Speaker 3: to the final ones. But there's a series of intellectuals, George,

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Speaker 3: that have disappeared, and what I mean by that physicians physicists.

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Speaker 3: In my books, I've written about six physicists who have disappeared,

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Speaker 3: who have never been found, and they're all German. I

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Speaker 3: could not find anyone a physicist who wasn't German that disappeared.

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Speaker 2: What is the significance of that. It's bizarre.

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Speaker 3: I've had a lot of I'm not proposing this, it's true,

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Speaker 3: but I've had a lot of people write to me

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Speaker 3: and say, well, Dave, you know, there's a whole Antarctica

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Speaker 3: connection with the Germans, and they're supposedly still up there,

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Speaker 3: and maybe they're taking people to work this project. I

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Speaker 3: don't know. It's odd that they're all German.

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Speaker 2: That is weird.

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Speaker 3: And then there's a whole series of physicians who have

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Speaker 3: disappeared that's also.

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Speaker 2: Odd, like they may be needed someplace.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, oddly, Georgia, your comment is interesting

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Speaker 3: because all of these physicians were described as the nicest,

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Speaker 3: most easy going, the type of people that could live

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Speaker 3: with anyone. And they were never described as a hard

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Speaker 3: nos difficult to get along with. No, it's just the opposite.

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Speaker 3: The nicest people.

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Speaker 2: Would you want to be plucked up and then just

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Speaker 2: taken somewhere so I never returned.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you do these conferences in front of

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Speaker 3: a hundreds of people, you do them, you do them

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Speaker 3: all the time, and you come up with some weird

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Speaker 3: questions and things, and they said, wow, we've heard this

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Speaker 3: story about a guy who was taken and he was

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Speaker 3: given the option of going to live on a spaceship

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Speaker 3: forever forever or coming back to Earth, and this guy

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Speaker 3: chose to go on and otherwise they wipe your mind

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Speaker 3: cleaning and they put you back on Earth. Well, on

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Speaker 3: my YouTube channel about a month ago, I did a

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Speaker 3: series on people who disappeared and were later found with amnesia.

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Speaker 3: And the interesting part about this, this was predominantly in

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Speaker 3: the late thirties to early fifties, and then it almost

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Speaker 3: seemed to stop, and there were a series of people.

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Speaker 3: I did videos on ten of them, and they would

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Speaker 3: disappear in one part of the country and disappear and

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Speaker 3: be found hundreds and hundreds of miles away in another

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Speaker 3: part of the country, with no means of transportation from

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Speaker 3: point to point and.

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Speaker 2: No recollection of how they got there.

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Speaker 3: Gid up.

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Speaker 2: This is still, David, one of the weirdest stories I

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Speaker 2: have ever ever come across. Strangers.

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Speaker 3: Well, it causes me to stay up night

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one AM Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot

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