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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. For most of us,

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Speaker 1: there's some place out there in our past that we

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Speaker 1: can reflect back to and focas will say, do you

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Speaker 1: remember when this happened in your life? Do you remember

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Speaker 1: where you were when you heard the news. And it

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Speaker 1: seems as though that our minds, at least in those moments,

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Speaker 1: are anchored back at that second, that second that we

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Speaker 1: found out something that was revealed to us, perhaps under

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Speaker 1: the worst circumstances. In my experience as a medical legal

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Speaker 1: death investigator, I saw a lot of these anchor points

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Speaker 1: along the way, and most of them had to do

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Speaker 1: with that moment in time when somebody is just living

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Speaker 1: their life, going about their lives day after day, some mundane,

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Speaker 1: but then I would show up at the door and

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Speaker 1: I would let them know that quite possibly the worst

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Speaker 1: thing that has ever happened at them in their life

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Speaker 1: has occurred. Today, we're going to talk about notification of

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Speaker 1: next of ken. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks.

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Speaker 1: I still remember the first one as if it were

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Speaker 1: the last one. Throughout my career, it never got easier.

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Speaker 1: No matter how many times you did it, it was

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Speaker 1: still bad. Jackie Howard, my good friend from Nancy Graith,

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Speaker 1: executive producer. We've talked about this before off air, and

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Speaker 1: you had actually asked me and had mentioned that this

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Speaker 1: is something that folks might want to hear about. And

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Speaker 1: it's a job within the world of death investigators that

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Speaker 1: many people outside don't really know that we do, but

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Speaker 1: it is. It is what we do. It's a major

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Speaker 1: part of what we do. Like I said, it never

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Speaker 1: got easier over the course of my entire career.

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Speaker 2: It's never easy to deliver bad news, even when there

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Speaker 2: is not a suspicious death associated with it. I know

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Speaker 2: in my own family, having to tell my mother, for example,

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Speaker 2: that her sister died. It's not easy. And the range

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Speaker 2: of emotions, you know, the four stages of grief that

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Speaker 2: you go through. Part of that is the anger that

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Speaker 2: you were talking about. But how do you and you've

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Speaker 2: been doing this for a very long time, as you

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Speaker 2: pointed out, how do you get through this telling people

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Speaker 2: that someone that they love has been harmed by someone

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Speaker 2: else and that they are no longer alive. I mean

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Speaker 2: the first one you did, you were the youngest death

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Speaker 2: scene investigator in the country at one point, Joe, So

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Speaker 2: how old were you when you made your first notification

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Speaker 2: twenty one?

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Speaker 1: I was twenty one years old and so ill prepared,

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Speaker 1: and I remember it. I still remember it to this day.

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Speaker 1: I can even remember what the house looked like. It

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Speaker 1: was in a suburban area in New Orleans, and it

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Speaker 1: was a very nice house, single story, had a big

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Speaker 1: pitch troof on it. It was all brick, had a

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Speaker 1: big veranda that went all the way around it. It

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Speaker 1: was about two o'clock in the morning, and out of

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Speaker 1: all the notications that I had done, it's so interesting

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Speaker 1: that the very first one had to do with a

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Speaker 1: person that was not too much younger than me, an

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl. And I still remember sitting in

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Speaker 1: the car outside and there was a long brick walkway

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Speaker 1: going up to the stoop, and sitting there thinking, what

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Speaker 1: in the world am I going to tell her family.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like you don't forget these things. I can

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Speaker 1: still hear my footfalls on the brick walkway as I

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Speaker 1: walked up and walking up the three steps to the porch,

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Speaker 1: and they had like these kind of faux flickering exterior

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Speaker 1: lights adjacent to the door. It looked like old gas lamps.

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Speaker 1: I remember knocking on the door and my hand shaking.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, It was like two three o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning, and a man much the same age as

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Speaker 1: I am now came to the door, and I did why.

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Speaker 1: I badged him as what you say. I showed him

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Speaker 1: my credentials and everything, and I said, I need to

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Speaker 1: speak to you. And you can just see, even in

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Speaker 1: that sleepy state, because the guy had been roused out

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Speaker 1: of bed, and he turned on his heel, and they

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Speaker 1: had a staircase, a center staircase, and he called out

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Speaker 1: to his wife and she came down the staircase and

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Speaker 1: right there, right there at the foot of that staircase,

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Speaker 1: in their receiving area, I told him. I told him

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Speaker 1: that his daughter had died in a motor vehicle accident.

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Speaker 1: And that was the first time that I had done that.

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Speaker 1: By the time that I had, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: become an investigator, I had spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in the morgue just doing autopsies and assisting with autopsies

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Speaker 1: and learning about the collection of evidence and all these

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Speaker 1: sorts of things as a very very young man. And

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Speaker 1: I was technically proficient.

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Speaker 2: But what about the emotional side? Is there some kind

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Speaker 2: of training on how to talk to somebody to inform

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Speaker 2: them themselves body has died.

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Speaker 1: Nowadays, there is, Back then there wasn't, and still I'm

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Speaker 1: of the opinion at least and everybody has an opinion,

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Speaker 1: but I'm of the opinion that you never capture the

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Speaker 1: full depth and breadth of it within the medical legal

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Speaker 1: world because you enter into this environment unequipped, and the

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Speaker 1: people that might do the training have not actually performed

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Speaker 1: the task doing a notification of next of camp, particularly

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Speaker 1: at the volume that you do it if you work

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Speaker 1: for a corner or a medical examiner, because many times

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Speaker 1: it's day after day. That first weekend that I worked

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Speaker 1: I handled I still remember the number. It's like thirty

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Speaker 1: four or thirty six deaths total in that weekend alone,

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Speaker 1: and that was just over a forty eight hour period

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Speaker 1: I worked by myself. Now, all those weren't traumatic, some

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Speaker 1: of those were natural deaths, but yet every single one

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Speaker 1: of those was a case that I had to work

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Speaker 1: generate a report on, and that was my first entree

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Speaker 1: into the field where I was out there doing these cases.

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Speaker 1: And over the course of that weekend, out of those

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Speaker 1: thirty four thirty six deaths, I had to make four notifications,

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Speaker 1: the first of which is this eighteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: All the technical stuff, the science stuff is kind of

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Speaker 1: easy if you begin to look at it logically. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing about notification of next to ken

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Speaker 1: is there is no rhyme or reason. There is no

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Speaker 1: explanation that you can offer up anything that you are

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Speaker 1: that you might offer up to a family false flat,

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Speaker 1: it's not sufficient to the task. And then once you've

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Speaker 1: done one, you don't know when the next one is coming.

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Speaker 1: But over the course of that weekend, I did four,

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Speaker 1: and so I would sit in fear after the first

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Speaker 1: one because your snake bit at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: But you know that there's no one else to do it.

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Speaker 1: You have to go and do it. There's something that

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Speaker 1: is kind of compelling you along to do your job,

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Speaker 1: and there's no way to take care of yourself mentally.

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Speaker 1: In the midst of all.

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Speaker 2: Of this, Who decides who will notify a family?

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Speaker 1: Well, deepending upon the jurisdiction you're in. Most of the time,

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Speaker 1: that default position is going to be the medical legal authority.

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Speaker 1: Because you have possession of the body, You're going to

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Speaker 1: be able to answer questions that an investigator might not

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Speaker 1: be able to answer. That's coming at it from a

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Speaker 1: law enforcement perspective and certainly not a patrol author. You know,

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Speaker 1: you see things in media and TV and movies and

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Speaker 1: all that where you have some somber, young police officer

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Speaker 1: that shows up at a door and makes notification. That's

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Speaker 1: generally not the way it happens. As a medical legal

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Speaker 1: death investigator, you have firsthand knowledge of the dynamics, the

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Speaker 1: status of the body. It's kind of a real deep

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Speaker 1: dive into human psychology. I think the main question that

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Speaker 1: families ask you when you notify them of the death

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Speaker 1: is not what happened? Why did it happen? They always

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Speaker 1: they always drop back to where where are? They think

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Speaker 1: about that? Your parent? The one thing you want to

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Speaker 1: know is where's a child? Where's my husband, Where's my wife,

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Speaker 1: where's my loved one, where's my friend. There's a term

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Speaker 1: that we talk about. When you go out on a scene,

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Speaker 1: you'll see families, and you see this on the news periodically.

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Speaker 1: There'll be large groups of people kind of standing around

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Speaker 1: crime scene, and you'll see police officers, many times fighting

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Speaker 1: to hold people back away from the scene. Those that

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Speaker 1: are intimates, parents and that sort of thing. And there's

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Speaker 1: kind of this manifestation that you see out there, and

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Speaker 1: it's there's a tactile element to it. It's like us

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Speaker 1: as humans, we want to touch the body. We want

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Speaker 1: to touch the body to confirm for ourselves our person

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Speaker 1: within us, that center, that core person within us. We

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Speaker 1: have to confirm that that person is in fact dead.

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Speaker 1: You see this played out even in nature. How many

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Speaker 1: times have we seen a mother of an animal that

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Speaker 1: has died and the mother is nuzzling deceased. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of that. It's very primal. You have to

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Speaker 1: confirm for yourself. And it's so hard to watch because

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Speaker 1: when you look at death investigation, as cold hearted as

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Speaker 1: it sounds, but it's the reality, particularly if you're talking

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Speaker 1: about like a homicide, the body has become the centerpiece

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Speaker 1: of the case. The body is the biggest piece of

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Speaker 1: evidence that you possess at that moment in time to

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Speaker 1: this event that has caared this horrific event. And we're

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Speaker 1: simply talking about homicides, and so you're denying these loved

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Speaker 1: ones the opportunity to touch the body because you're going

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Speaker 1: to compromise the case, right, But it's this kind of

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Speaker 1: it's a real slap in the face, because there's something

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Speaker 1: within us. There's something at a primal level. I know

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Speaker 1: I keep saying that, but there's something at a primal

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Speaker 1: level where we have to confirm. And I've had family

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Speaker 1: members hit me. I've had them kick me or just

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Speaker 1: to own and on. I mean, just de littany the

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Speaker 1: stories I could tell about the reactions of families when

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Speaker 1: you deny them access to a body six months later,

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Speaker 1: when the case is going to trial, for instance, if

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Speaker 1: it is a homicide, the one thing that you want

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Speaker 1: to be able to stand forth on the one point

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Speaker 1: is to say that the chain of custody, relative to

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Speaker 1: how the body was impacted and the evidence that was

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Speaker 1: collected was not compromised in any way. And once you

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Speaker 1: show up at that scene as the official investigator of death,

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Speaker 1: your job is security of that body and everything else

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Speaker 1: unfortunately becomes peripheral. But it's very tragic to witness that.

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Speaker 1: And even when you go out to homes as well,

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Speaker 1: you know the body has been removed to the more

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Speaker 1: the family still want to know where where. All those

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Speaker 1: other questions come up later you know the why all

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Speaker 1: of that. That's kind of a deeper thing, but it's

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Speaker 1: just that familial sense that you have, that love that

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Speaker 1: just kind of carries over that concern. You have to

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Speaker 1: confirm it and they want to know where their loved

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Speaker 1: one is. For death investigator, I think one of the

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Speaker 1: watchwords that you have is timeliness. The fact that you

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Speaker 1: can be timely. I think as an investigator shows compassion

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Speaker 1: the sooner you can do it and it's something that

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Speaker 1: no one wants to do. You sit around and you

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Speaker 1: would like to draw straws, but you know that it's

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Speaker 1: going to fall to you to get it done and

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Speaker 1: get it done quickly, and there's all kinds of problems

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Speaker 1: that can arise when you become distracted by other things.

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Speaker 1: Timeliness is, in fact the watchword.

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Speaker 2: Timeliness is a very important part Joe and I want

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Speaker 2: to understand when you are in the midst of an investigation,

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Speaker 2: it really doesn't make a difference whether it is an

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Speaker 2: accident or a homicide, but you have to do your

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Speaker 2: due diligence and finish the investigation. How does that imperative

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Speaker 2: finishing the investigation so that nothing is compromised compare to

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Speaker 2: the timeliness of letting people know that something happened. I mean,

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Speaker 2: is there a guideline of some kind. Okay, I've got

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Speaker 2: to stop here, I've got to go do this and

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Speaker 2: then come back. I mean that's probably not even a possibility.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not. As a matter of fact, you can

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Speaker 1: really train wreck a case by doing that. You can't

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Speaker 1: stop midway through it in order to facilitate other matters.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's a lot of that comes

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Speaker 1: down to the fact that you need to have a

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Speaker 1: trusted group of people that are around you. I've been

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Speaker 1: fortunate over the years that I would have colleagues that

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Speaker 1: are fellow medical legal death investigators that I would say,

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Speaker 1: this notification has got to be done. When you're standing

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Speaker 1: out in the middle of a major interstate guess what

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Speaker 1: that's news? That is news flames, broken cars, broken bodies,

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Speaker 1: flashing lights. That makes people watch the news, and the

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Speaker 1: news will many times, and this has happened to me

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Speaker 1: several times throughout my career has beat me to the notification.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine, if you will, You're sitting there

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Speaker 1: and you're watching the late night news and you don't

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Speaker 1: know where your child is, for instance, but all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, you're watching the news and you see a

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Speaker 1: flash across the screen. I mean, it's already caught your attention.

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Speaker 1: There's some reporters standing there with a microphone in their hand,

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Speaker 1: and there's broken vehicles everywhere, and you happen to catch

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Speaker 1: sight of perhaps a car that looks very similar to

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Speaker 1: the one that you bought your son when he was

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old, and all of a sudden you go

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Speaker 1: into a panic. You can't get him on the phone,

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Speaker 1: you don't know where he was last seen, and then

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Speaker 1: it suddenly a cursed you that that might be your child.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately many times that has happened. It's also happened

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Speaker 1: with homicides where family members will see the reporters at

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Speaker 1: a scene on television. They're standing outside a location that

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Speaker 1: they know that their loved one or their child frequents,

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Speaker 1: and they can't get in contact with them, or somebody

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Speaker 1: lets it slip in the background. I've actually had reporters

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Speaker 1: say a name live on air, you know. Now They

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Speaker 1: will say things like we're not going to release the

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Speaker 1: name pending notification next. Again, that has not always been

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Speaker 1: the case, and still to this day, it does happen

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Speaker 1: because you'll get cross wires in communication. People will say yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've already taken care of the notification when that hasn't

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Speaker 1: occurred at all. You have to make sure because that's

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Speaker 1: something you have to guard. You have a responsibility to

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Speaker 1: these loved ones. You have to shield them as much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, they're about to get their

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Speaker 1: lives shredded anyway. Why do you want to add to that.

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Speaker 1: So timeliness, I think is the watchword in any of

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Speaker 1: these cases where you have to be really really aware

264
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Speaker 1: of everything, and you become hypervigilant as a death investigator

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Speaker 1: because there's so much going on. We talked about the

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Speaker 1: notification next to Ken, but then you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about all of the detailed forensic information that's scene information

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Speaker 1: you're trying to collect at that one time, and you

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Speaker 1: get that one moment to do it. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you can put it on pause because life is going

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Speaker 1: to go on. You have to continue to work through

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Speaker 1: this as best as you can, and hopefully you'll have

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Speaker 1: friends that you can delegate this too to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and make the notification in a timely manner.

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Speaker 2: Well, you read my mind again, Joe. I was just

276
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Speaker 2: going to ask, when there's an investigation like that, is

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Speaker 2: this a point where your obligation to the crime scene

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Speaker 2: supersedes your obligation to the family, and someone else would

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Speaker 2: be sent to make that notification.

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Speaker 1: You can't neglect what is there at your feet, whether

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Speaker 1: it's shellcasings or the broken body of someone that has

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Speaker 1: met with some horrible end, you cannot neglect that at

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Speaker 1: that moment time. First off, you have the potential to

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Speaker 1: direct the entire case. And secondly, it's disrespectful to leave

285
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Speaker 1: the body out there any longer. I mean, just imagine

286
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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that have problems with this.

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Speaker 1: They never cover the body up, they'll say, or they

288
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Speaker 1: left the body exposed, or that sort of thing. But

289
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Speaker 1: we're working the case, and you have to work the

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Speaker 1: case as quickly as you can, but safely. And when

291
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Speaker 1: I say safety, that goes to collection of evidence. You

292
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Speaker 1: want to be as thorough as you possibly can, so

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Speaker 1: you can't freeze that moment in time. You certainly don't

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Speaker 1: get a do over. I know that's kind of a

295
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Speaker 1: road statement, but you don't get a do over at

296
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Speaker 1: that moment time. So it's a real balancing act you

297
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Speaker 1: have to dig into and be aware of. And then

298
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Speaker 1: if you do get clear from the scene. You need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that your first stop is not going

300
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Speaker 1: to be down to the little coffee shops sent around

301
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Speaker 1: to talk about the case with your colleagues, or you're

302
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 1: going to go back to the office, or you're going

303
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: to go home and let everything else take care of No,

304
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Speaker 1: the next thing you do is you get in your

305
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Speaker 1: car as quickly as you possibly can, armed with the address,

306
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Speaker 1: and you go there with as much rapidity as you

307
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Speaker 1: possibly can to get there and show up and make

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Speaker 1: that notification.

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Speaker 2: Would you still do that even if you had sent

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Speaker 2: someone to notify the family while you finished your onsetne investigation.

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Speaker 1: Not necessarily go back out because anybody that I would

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Speaker 1: work with, that I would trust in this situation would

313
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Speaker 1: have my same attention level of attention to detail. Because

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Speaker 1: you have to keep in mind, not only are you

315
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Speaker 1: notifying the family in a case like this, but when

316
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Speaker 1: you're talking about death investigation, the family is going to

317
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Speaker 1: hold information that might be key to solving this case.

318
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Speaker 1: Because in most cases, the family is going to have

319
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Speaker 1: intimate knowledge of the comings and goings of the deceased.

320
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Speaker 1: They're going to know where they were supposed to have

321
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Speaker 1: been many times, not every single time. Some people live

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Speaker 1: in great isolation relative to their families, but most of

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Speaker 1: the time there at least the family's going to have

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Speaker 1: some sense of what was going on. When you're able

325
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Speaker 1: to get out there and you say you send somebody,

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Speaker 1: they're going to have a list of questions they're going

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Speaker 1: to have follow up with. And it's not just going

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Speaker 1: to necessarily be the standard questions about we're going to

329
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Speaker 1: be doing examination in the morning. Body will be ready

330
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Speaker 1: for release? Do you have any questions about that? There's

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Speaker 1: going to be other questions as well. When was the

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Speaker 1: last time you saw your son? Do you know who

333
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: he was going to be hanging out with this evening?

334
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Speaker 1: Is there anybody out there that might have more information

335
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Speaker 1: about him. You don't want to dig too deep with

336
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Speaker 1: them initially, but you have to at least glean some information.

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Speaker 1: And this is what is kind of hard about this

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Speaker 1: whole process. Some studies have indicated that when you notify

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Speaker 1: a family from the moment that you should go up

340
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Speaker 1: at their door, they might remember about ten percent of

341
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Speaker 1: what you say to them after you have told them

342
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Speaker 1: that their loved one is deceased. Can you imagine that

343
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Speaker 1: because their world has just been shattered? I mean, just

344
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 1: rip the shreds, and so anything that you say after

345
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: that is just static and it's kind of like Charlie

346
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: Brown's teacher, and it's just blah blah blah blah blah.

347
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Speaker 1: And I think that people want wah wah wah, and

348
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Speaker 1: many you'd be I think people would be very surprised,

349
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Speaker 1: and maybe you wouldn't because I think that many people

350
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Speaker 1: out there can identify they remember what it was like

351
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Speaker 1: when they found out someone they love died. How many

352
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Speaker 1: times family members will call you the next day and say,

353
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Speaker 1: I have your card here and I don't remember a

354
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Speaker 1: word that you said to me. Can you please fill

355
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Speaker 1: in the blanks? Can you please tell me? And that's

356
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: when you'll get like what happened at that point in time?

357
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Speaker 1: You know, initially it was where where's my daughter? Where's

358
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Speaker 1: my son? Once they get past that benchmark in tom

359
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: then their brain begins to settle a little bit. They're

360
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: still raw, but it's not like when you first show

361
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Speaker 1: up at the door. It's like you've punched them in

362
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Speaker 1: the stomach.

363
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Speaker 2: In absorbing what you're telling me, Joe. If I tried

364
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Speaker 2: to boil it down into one word, it would not

365
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: be clinical. It would not be compassion. It seems to

366
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Speaker 2: me like it is nothing but craziness because there really

367
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Speaker 2: is no timeline.

368
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Speaker 1: The term that always comes to mind. I'm a veteran,

369
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Speaker 1: so I'll go back and think about things many times

370
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Speaker 1: in the sense of way the army. You might think

371
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: about the army and that sort of thing, and I've

372
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Speaker 1: always equated it metaphorically. Understand metaphorically that it's almost akin

373
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Speaker 1: to showing up at a family's home and pulling the

374
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Speaker 1: pen on a metaphor grenade and throwing it into the

375
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Speaker 1: room and shut in the door. You're creating such trauma

376
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Speaker 1: in an otherwise perhaps normal life. They're normal, maybe it's

377
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: very placid. Maybe they're sitting around drinking coffee. Maybe they're

378
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 1: sitting around having a meal, and then suddenly you show

379
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Speaker 1: up at the door. From that moment in time, Jackie,

380
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: from that moment in time when you make that notification,

381
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: just keep this in mind. Your image will be forever

382
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 1: burned into the psyche of the person you're talking to,

383
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: and they might not remember your name, but they're going

384
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Speaker 1: to remember your face. Many years ago, early on in

385
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: my career, I actually had a kid that was riding

386
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: a motorcyci kid, you know, nineteen years old, and he

387
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: was riding his motorcycle. He had a dirt bike on

388
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 1: what we call the New Orleans they call it the

389
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: neutral Ground, which is kind of the median. It's a

390
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: big grassy area adjacent to a canal, actually, and it

391
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: kind of splits four lanes of traffic. You've got two

392
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: on one side that's westbound and two on the other

393
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: side that are eastbound. And there were these guide wires

394
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: that came down from an electrical line, and there were

395
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of kids standing out there watching this older

396
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: teen right up and down the neutral ground the median,

397
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: like his hair was on fire, just driving as fast

398
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: as he could, and he hit one of the guidewires

399
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: and it took his head off in front of this

400
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: collected group of kids that were watching this whole thing unfold.

401
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: And he didn't live too far from there. And one

402
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: of the things that you do is you go and

403
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: he examined the body. After you'd do your photographs and

404
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: all these sorts of things, and then you'll go into it, like,

405
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: for instance, into his back pocket. I pulled out his

406
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: wallet and found his driver's license, and I grabbed a deputy,

407
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: a deputy sheriff that was there. I rolled over to

408
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: the house and it was a very typical looking house.

409
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: Came up to the side door on the house which

410
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: enters into the kitchen and knocked on the door, and

411
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: a woman came to the door and it was I

412
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: guess late in the afternoon, and again I badged her,

413
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: identified myself and who I was with, So we need

414
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: to talk to you. And immediately, you know, families get

415
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: this this sense about them. They know something's up when

416
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: a person with the bat shows up at their door.

417
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: They begin to kind of retreat and contract. They'll say,

418
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: what's this about? Why are you here? Because you're thinking

419
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: the worst And in this case it certainly wasn't. And

420
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: there's certain things that you don't forget, and in this

421
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: particular case, I'll never forget this as long as I

422
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: live my dying day when I finally close my eyes,

423
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: and I'm not one of these people that drag it out.

424
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: And that's not healthy either. Where you say that there

425
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: was an awful accident, you go right to the point

426
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: you say, ma'am, are you missus Jones? Yes? Are you

427
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: the mother of Sam Jones? Yes, ma'am your son just

428
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: died in a motor vehicle accident, and that way, because

429
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do to buffer what is coming.

430
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: It's going to happen either way. And I remember informing

431
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: her that her son had died. Now, you don't go

432
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: into the details like I just related here all these

433
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: years later about decapitation and all that stuff, but you

434
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: give them enough to digest. I gave this family the

435
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: standard run down, told him what was going on, what

436
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: would happen. I spent time with him, talked to them,

437
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: and they were shaken to the core. Well, I had

438
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: worked the case, and I guess it was probably six

439
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: months later, almost six months later to today, I got

440
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: called from the sheriff's office that there was a fellow

441
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: that had barricaded himself in the second floor of a

442
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: local motel and he had taken his own life. And

443
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: as it turned out, this guy had been a reserve

444
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: deputy sheriff and another jurisdiction, and he had a real

445
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: bad problem with steroids, and we think that he probably

446
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: had some kind of steroid in dew psychoses. I'm just raving,

447
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: carrying on, shouting at people, and he wound up taking

448
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: his weapon and taking his own life. I'm working the scene,

449
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: taking my photographs, doing everything I have to do. And

450
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: I began to dig through his stuff and I find

451
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: he actually had a Sheriff's office ID with him that

452
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: had a badge inside of it, and behind his actual

453
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: picture ID was his state driver's license. And I pulled

454
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: it out and I looked at it and I thought, God,

455
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: that's that's very Why do I know that address? And

456
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: you know, at this time, this is way pre Katrina,

457
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: so New Orleans had a population back then in excess

458
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: to the metro area, certainly in excess of a million people.

459
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: And again I grab a deputy, I said, this is

460
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: the address we're going to, and sure enough, out of

461
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: all of the people in the world and out of

462
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: me as the investigator, we pull up in the driveway.

463
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: It's the same house. And this is six months later.

464
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: And to give you a sense of the impact that

465
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: you make on a family, remember they might not know

466
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: my name. And this is later at night, I went

467
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: to the very same door, pounded on the door, and

468
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: it was one of these doors where we have external

469
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: door that's like a glass kind of screened indoor that

470
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: slides up and down in an interior door. They opened

471
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: the interior door. You know, the light had come on outside.

472
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: It illuminated my face. I'm standing there on my badge

473
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: in my hand, and it was the mother again and

474
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: it was like she saw the angel of death and

475
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: for that moment time she screamed, and it seemed like

476
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: that scream lasted forever. And she started screaming, go away,

477
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: go away, go away, leave, But you know you can't leave.

478
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: It's your job, it's what you do. And finally her

479
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: husband came down and when he saw me, two words

480
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: came out of his mouth and it was oh no.

481
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: He rushed forward, opened the door and screamed at me, said,

482
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing here? Said Sarah, I

483
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: got to talk to you, and I went in there

484
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: and I told them that there's second son had died.

485
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: And this is within six months, and they to this day,

486
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: those people might not know my name, but that they're

487
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: remember my face at my heart. I'm a science guy.

488
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: I don't really call myself a scientist, but I guess

489
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: you'd call me a forensic scientist. But I'm a science guy.

490
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: I love science. And one of the reasons that I

491
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: love science is the fact that there are some absolutes.

492
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: We know certain things to be true in mathematics, there

493
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: are certain truths that you can't get past. And that's

494
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: the beauty of science that it simplifies things. It really

495
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: synthesized things down to its base elements. You know, you

496
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: can kind of understand it. Some people try to complicate it,

497
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: but it's really not that complicated. When it comes to death, though,

498
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: I think, and your interaction with people that have lost

499
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: loved ones, science kind of goes out the wind at

500
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: that time. You got psychologists that will try to frame

501
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: it for you and try to talk about stages of

502
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: grief and all those sorts of things. But at the

503
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's something that is unique to

504
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: the individual, and there is no formula necessarily to accomplish

505
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: the task that's going to make it any easier.

506
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: So how did you do it, Joe? I mean, you

507
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: told us in the beginning about the lack of training

508
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: for this part of the job. So as the years progressed,

509
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: did you figure out or lay out a formula for

510
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: yourself to make it easier either on you or for

511
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: the family? Is there way to do that?

512
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: I think that probably it all came down to again,

513
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: I go back to one of my watchworks, which is timeliness,

514
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: not dragging it out, and being prepared as best you

515
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: can with baseline information for the families. The thing about

516
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: it is that when you introduce the stimulus like this

517
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: into a person's life, it's unpredictable. It's like trying to

518
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: predict where a tornado is going to go. Some people

519
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: can say that they can, that they can track it

520
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: pretty well, but let's face it, tornado is going to

521
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: do what a tornado is going to do, but its nature.

522
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: And when you introduce this element of loss into a

523
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: family's world, you have no idea what that relationship was

524
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: like prior to you walking in. A matter of fact,

525
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: it's insulting for you to even presume that you know

526
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: what it was like. You weren't for Christmases and Thanksgivings

527
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: and birthdays and deaths and all those other things. It's

528
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: a unique formula that is unique to that familial group.

529
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: So when you walk in, you're that one unknown. So

530
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: the one thing that I could do was be prepared

531
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: with baseline information, and that would come down to have

532
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: I gotten them identified first off, because there are any

533
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: number of cases out there can you imagine this that

534
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: people have misidentified deceased individuals and have gone to the

535
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: wrong family. That's horrible. I mean, it's absolutely horrible. And

536
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: there's several cases that are out there like that. You

537
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: rip somebody's world to shreds and it's not even their

538
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: loved one. So you have to make sure that you

539
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: know who you're talking about. How did you confirm that ID?

540
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: You have to know where the body is and I

541
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: know that sounds real simplistic, but is it at the

542
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: county Morgue, Is it at the city Morgue, is it

543
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: at the hospital? Is a body still at the scene.

544
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: You have to know that because that is going to

545
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: be a big question. Remember early on I said, the

546
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: family always wants to know where first, where where's my baby?

547
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: Where's my baby? Where's my loved one? And you're not

548
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 1: necessarily at that particular time going to know what and

549
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: that what is a very dangerous question early on in

550
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: an investigation what happened? And to speculate You do that

551
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: at your own peril because these stories shift dependent upon

552
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: how much investigative information is coming on. What you do

553
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: know is that the individual is deceased, and let's just

554
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: say you know, we'll keep it simple and say it

555
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: was a motor vehicle accent. They died in a motor

556
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: vehicle accident. Well, that's pretty much all of the information

557
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: a family can digest at that moment in time. You're

558
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: not going to go into the mechanics of some kind

559
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: of collision event. You're not going to talk about blood

560
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: forced trauma, You're not going to do all of those things.

561
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: They might also ask a question who were they with, Well,

562
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have that information at that moment in time,

563
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: so you try to keep it as simplistic as possible

564
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: because you have readjusted their life to the point where

565
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: they say that there's two points in an individual's life

566
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: where they are at their lowest ebb and flow emotionally.

567
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: One of those is when an individual goes through a divorce,

568
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: and secondly is when they experience a death. And so

569
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: many times people are they're almost infantile, they're like babies

570
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: because there's a shock that comes on. They just deal

571
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: with those baseline things, getting those needs met initially, and

572
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: sometimes as an investigator, you can't anticipate what those needs

573
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: are going to be, but you have to be prepared.

574
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: I think to that, and then for me personally, the

575
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: one thing that I always wanted to impart again is compassion.

576
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: And people throw that term around a lot a lot nowadays,

577
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: and I don't know that many people understand what compassion is,

578
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: and the old saying there, but for the grace of God,

579
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: go ay. There is a possibility that in your own

580
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: personal life that you can either experience this or somebody

581
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: in your peripheral family can experience it. That compassion and mercy,

582
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: and you only get certain moments in time in life

583
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: where you can display those things. I count myself kind

584
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: of fortunate in a weird kind of way, because I've

585
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: had more than my fair share of opportunities to extend

586
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: mercy and compassion to people at their lowest dep and flow.

587
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: And many times it felt like a burden. I mean

588
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: it truly did. It was the most distasteful part of

589
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: my job. And people always ask that, you know, what's

590
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: the worst thing that you had to deal with? The

591
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: default position for most people, you know, when they think

592
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: about what you do as a death investigator, they think, well,

593
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: it's going to be severely decomposed body or a really

594
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: really bloody scene and a highly complex and maybe you

595
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: go into a dangerous place, and I've been in a

596
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: lot of dangerous places. I've had roosts collapse, I mean

597
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: as a result of fires, and they've been hit by things.

598
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: I've had bullets pass over my head. All of those

599
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: sorts of things pale, I mean absolutely pale in comparison

600
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: to the act of notification of next to Ken.

601
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: It becomes very personal, doesn't it.

602
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: Job It does. After a period of time, your humanity

603
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: takes over and you begin to see your own person

604
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: reflected in the lives of these people. I documented my

605
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: journey pretty thoroughly in my memoiral Blood Beneath my Feet.

606
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: I talked about how death had impacted me, my view

607
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: of the world through kind of the eyes of the dead,

608
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: if you will. Took a little bit of license with that,

609
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: but I'm the one telling the stories. And the very

610
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: end of my career, when death had really gotten the

611
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: best of me as a death and investigator, I wound

612
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: up having to hang it up as a result of

613
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: a PTSD diagnosis. I couldn't do it any longer. I'd

614
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: just done it for so long. It's all I'd ever done.

615
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: You mentioned I was the youngest I was and that's

616
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: all I'd ever known and always asked for compassion. I'd

617
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: always asked for compassion for my family and my wife,

618
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: and I I was at the end of my rope

619
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: as a death investigator. I couldn't work any longer. I

620
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: was still technically employed, but I was a quivering mass.

621
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't deal with the things I'd been dealing with

622
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: for all those years. And we were pregnant. My wife

623
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: and gave birth to our son, and I was undergoing

624
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: therapy and all those sorts of things. At that particular time,

625
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: we were older parents, and there was a high probability

626
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: that Isaac, our son would not survive. When my beautiful

627
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: wife delivered Isaac, I was the first one to hold him,

628
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: cut the cord, and we wept and laughed, and all

629
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, and the staff medical staff told

630
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: us that he wouldn't be with us very long. And

631
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: he lasted for a few hours. And I sat there

632
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: and held him and he nuzzled me. My wife was sleeping,

633
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: and Isaac died. He died, and I found myself in

634
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: a very curious position at that moment time. For all

635
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: those years that I'd been praying that someone would extend

636
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: mercy to my family. I found at that moment time

637
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: I had to extend some mercy to myself, and I

638
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: tried my best to do that, to be kind to myself,

639
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 1: to be kind to my wife, be kind to my family.

640
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: Because life, as I'm prone to say, and this is

641
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: actually a scripture, I can't remember which one, but it's

642
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: just life is but of vapor and it's gone. It's gone,

643
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: and you never know when it's going to be gone.

644
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: So for me, I guess mercy and compassion at the

645
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: end of the day, or the watchwords here. It's the

646
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: only thing, truly that we have in this life to

647
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: fall back on, even in the face of death.

648
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: The New King James version of the Bible James four

649
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: fourteen in part says, for you are a miss that

650
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 2: appears for a very little time and then vanishes. Yep,

651
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: there you go.

652
00:38:38,400 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: Truth. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks