1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi everyone, 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: welcome to a new episode of Let's Be Clear with 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Shita and Doherty. I am over the moon right now 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: because I have somebody that I have admired for a 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: long time. Catherine Heigel, Like you guys know her twenty 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: seven dresses, knocked up like Grey's Anatomy, Barflying Lane. Just 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: her resume is insane, Hi, Kathy, but also she's insane. 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: She's definitely well, I should just say it to your face. 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: You're someone that I have definitely looked up to, and 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: I admire your strength. I admire you know, your perseverance 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: as a woman as an actor. You just the amount 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: of self respect you have and the caring you have 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: for you know, your other actors, like now as a 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: producer and really watching out for women is astonishing to me. 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Well, I didn't know I was coming 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: in for this kind of intro. I'm very uh, I'm 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: feeling very very good about myself at this good. That 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: was so nice and means means what it means a lot. 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean listen, I had gone I sort 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: of there's a lot of similarities between us that aren't 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: instantly recognizable to a lot of people. But like when 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: I really looked at you and broke everything down, and 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: you know, I was like the biggest Grays fan and 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: Izzy and I was like, oh my god, we're really 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: getting Catherine on the show. I just sort of looked 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: at it and went, wow, there were there were only 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: a few women back then that stood up for themselves. 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: Well you were the original, right, Yeah, yeah, you know. 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: I mean I got fired for it multiple times. You know, 31 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: you just you kept going and it was really impressive. 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know any person except for you 33 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: that turns down an Immy nomination. 34 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: Well I didn't, and everybody keeps saying that I didn't 35 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 2: turn it down. You know, you have to submit yourself. 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: You have to submit your work and then they deliberate 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: and then they decide if they want to give you 38 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: a nomination. I just didn't submit my work that year. 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: And I should you know, I don't know. My mother 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: and I were talking about this recently. I should have 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 2: said nothing. I should have said nothing. I should have 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: just said oh I forgot, because it created such a 43 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: maelstrom that was so unnecessary, and it really was. Yeah, 44 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: I was kind of trying to make a bit of 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: a snarky point about my material that year, but I 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: was also just not feeling my material. I didn't think 47 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: I had anything that warranted even the consideration for a nomination. 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: I just wasn't proud of my work. So it was really, 49 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: you know, I would never be so bold or so 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: arrogant to turn down a nomination. I would take that nomination. 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: I became my way. I'd be down, but I just knew, 52 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: you know, there wasn't anything that would really warrant one 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: that year, and I was trying to be honorable. I 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: guess I was trying to have some integrity. I wasn't 55 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: trying to be a dick. 56 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: But you know what's funny is that had it been 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: obviously a guy, they would have said like, oh, look 58 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: at how honorable he is, like and instead because you're 59 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: a woman, and you know, certainly back then it was 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: a lot different than it is now. Although I'm the 61 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: naysayer who's like, we haven't really changed that much in 62 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: the business, you guys, not a ton. 63 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: It's just a little more subversive now. 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: It's a little more Yes, yes, they like to be 65 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more quiet about it. Of how you know, 66 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: the men still really lead the charge and women have 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: a role to play. And yes, there are brave women 68 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: like you that have bucked against that and said, not 69 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: even trying to be you know, arroant, which they want 70 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: to call you, not trying to be difficult do they 71 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: want to call you? I've been called all of these 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: things as well. I get that, but it's it's none 73 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: of that. It's the fact that you're just trying to 74 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: be truthful to yourself right and hold yourself to a 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: certain standards. 76 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was always about that, and I'm very fortunate 77 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: I have my mother who has always been, you know, 78 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: my biggest support system and also my partner in all 79 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: of this. We are, you know, business partners, and so 80 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: I always had another strong woman who kind of had 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: my back and like somebody to bounce it off of. 82 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: And sometimes we would rile each other up, no doubt, 83 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: but most of the time it was like I just 84 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: felt like the right thing to do and the right 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: thing to say, and she was like, yeah, I got you, 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: You're right, you know. And so I don't know that 87 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: I would have been quite so forthright without the support, 88 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: you know, I would have been more afraid. I think, 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: but I don't know. It's shamed me for a long time. 90 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: I spent probably, I want to say, like all of 91 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: my mid thirties, oh like from thirty five to forty, 92 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: I spent just trying to be as quiet and as 93 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: polite and as sweet and as just kind of disappearing 94 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: as much as possible, and it still didn't work. So 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: then I, I don't know, I hit forty and I 96 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: went fuck this. But life is really too short, and 97 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: you know, I, like you said, I just want to 98 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: I just want to be true to myself. I'm not 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: trying to make I never never go out there with 100 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: the intention of ever making anybody else feel bad or 101 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: to bully them, or to upset them or hurt feelings. 102 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: That's so outside my intention. I'm sure I have on 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: occasion by mistake or accident, but I will. I don't 104 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 2: like being bullied either, and I don't have a very 105 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: sort of calm, political rational reaction to that. I tend 106 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: to I tend to get out my boxing gloves. 107 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I completely understand that. And again 108 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: I applaud you for it, because you know, like I was, 109 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: I think I was freshly fired off of charmed when 110 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: like Grays started and I watched it, and obviously I 111 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: was a big fan of the show. But then with 112 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: you and your character, there is such a vulnerability to 113 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Izzy that you brought to that character, but also like 114 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: a strength to her that was very that I think women, 115 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: particularly young younger women needed that role to like see 116 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and to really understand what you could do. And then 117 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't about like sleeping your way somewhere, you know, 118 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: it was about her determination in her life, all done 119 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: in this you know, very funny way. There was just 120 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: such a humor about you on that show along with 121 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 1: the vulnerability that was like wow, you know, that's great, 122 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: Like what a character to have during that time. 123 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was great. And I think that, you know, 124 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: so much of that is attributed to to Shonda and 125 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: her creation of these characters. So much of it is 126 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: attributed to the sort of lightning in a bottle of 127 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: that cast together at that time, which again was kind 128 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: of Shonda, you know, figuring out this. Some of it 129 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: is you can't know, you don't know how it's going 130 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: to quite kind of come together and how it's going 131 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: to work, but it just did. And then as I 132 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: think the writers got to know us more individually, like 133 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: Izzy sort of that's who I was at that age. 134 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: I mean I was twenty four, I think when the 135 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 2: show started, and I was thirty two maybe or thirty 136 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 2: one when I left. I was Izzy. You know, I 137 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: was really insecure. I was, but also I still had 138 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: that fight in me. I still didn't like it when 139 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: people kind of pushed me around or told me I 140 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: couldn't or told me I shouldn't or told me, you 141 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: know that I wouldn't be able to kind of think 142 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: I so a lot of who she was. And it 143 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: was funny because I wouldn't have said that at the time, 144 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: but now looking back at her, I think, you know, 145 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: that was that was kind of who I was. Then. 146 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: There was a lot of just young woman in security, 147 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: you know, just not really knowing if I had a 148 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: right to like take up space. 149 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: But also conviction, Like there just seemed to me with 150 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: you and your character that there was a lot of 151 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: conviction in being truthful and in doing what you know, 152 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: you really felt was right, whether it be cutting that 153 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: bad there you. 154 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: Go, Juriel bad. I will never not know that word. 155 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: But like that was, you know, for your character, that 156 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: was a huge thing and it really showed like your 157 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: love for this man and your conviction for what you 158 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: believed to be the right thing, which I always sort 159 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: of paralleled to you as a human of like, wow, 160 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, Catherine's gonna stand up for what she really 161 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: believes is right, which, again, particularly for back then, that 162 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: was like a very big thing. And on an ensemble 163 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: cast for a show that sort of came out huge 164 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: right away, it was incredibly popular. I just you know 165 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: that that could not have been easy for you. 166 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: I think it was. It was easy until it wasn't, 167 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: you know, because there was a moment when it sort 168 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: of depended on what I was standing up for, right 169 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: So when I was sort of standing up for my 170 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: co star and you know, coming out against bigotry and 171 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, it was, you know, applauded and appreciated. 172 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: When I stood for myself, it wasn't quite taken quite 173 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: the same way. And so then it stopped being easy 174 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 2: to be to do that, to speak my truth. Then 175 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 2: I then I just ship hell up as much as 176 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: I could for a long time, and I pretty much 177 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: just ran away. And so I love you so much 178 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: for speaking to my strength, But I wasn't. I think 179 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 2: sometimes I was, but I was also sometimes just deeply, 180 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: I just was deeply insecure and afraid that all those 181 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: opinions that had so quickly shifted were true, you know, 182 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: that those opinions meant more than my own opinion of myself. 183 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: And it took me till about forty to really to stop, 184 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: you know, to stop apologizing, to stop beating myself up 185 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: about it, to stop regretting the choices and decisions i'd 186 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: made in the things I'd said, and kind of just 187 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: learn and move forward. And it gave me a clarity 188 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: about like, Okay, there are some things I don't need 189 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: to get real mouthy about. You know, some things can 190 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: remain behind closed doors, but there are things I will 191 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: be very loud about and screw the consequences quite frankly. 192 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: Like it taught me that I just, yeah, I want 193 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: to be able to sleep at night like anybody else. 194 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: I want to not feel like I just played a 195 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: game the whole time. It's not a game to me. 196 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: You know, Hollywood is complicated. I'm sure many industries are, 197 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: but it's it's not a game. And I'm not a politician, 198 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: so I'm not good at that. I decided I don't 199 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: care if I am or not. 200 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think if you think about back 201 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: then as well, those voices that were telling you that 202 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: you were wrong or you know, making you into a 203 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: villain or spoiled or whatever. If they, you know, the 204 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: majority of them, Let's face it, our networks will run 205 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: by men. And I think that from personally. I look 206 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: back and I'm like, well, they never really liked a 207 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: very strong woman. They really liked women to know their place. 208 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: Like I was told to, you know, shut up and 209 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: get on my mark multiple times by somebody at Aaron 210 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: Spellings Company, and I be like, wait, what you don't 211 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: pay me enough to do that. Yeah, you know, like 212 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: if you want me to be completely quiet and not 213 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: have an opinion, you have to pay me a lot 214 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: more money. So I sound better about going to work, right, 215 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: Otherwise I need to have an opinion. I need to 216 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: have a say. I need to, you know, stand up 217 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: for the fact that the crew is working way too 218 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: long of hours that you know, the actors were working 219 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: long hours. You know, sixteen hour days is insane because 220 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: what people don't realize is that it's you know, I 221 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: always lived an hour away from where I was filming, 222 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: so for me, it was really an eighteen hour day. Yeah, 223 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: at least at least and when you get home, you're 224 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: all like, you know, sped up and jack and you're 225 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: thinking about your day and what work you did, so 226 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: you can't go to bed right away. It's exhausting. Yeah, 227 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: and you just keep doing that five days a week, 228 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: and you know, your weekends, you end up having no life. 229 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: I know for us it was, you know, lots of 230 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: publicity on the weekends and photo shoots and when you 231 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: are that woman who finally looks at people and says, 232 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: this is enough. You cannot abuse the crew, you can't 233 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: abuse us as cast members, it doesn't go over so well. 234 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: No, it's bizarre. It's actually a bizarre reaction. To me, 235 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: I don't really totally understand it because I think, well, 236 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: whuldn't it save you money to do this more expediently, 237 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: Like what, I don't understand the reaction. You know, it's 238 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: such a strange industry and that it's business, but it's 239 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: creative and it's a creative collaboration. It's not a one woman, 240 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: one man show, not when it's television or film or 241 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: most Broadway. I mean, I'm sure there are a few 242 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: one woman shows that work, but this was this takes 243 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: everybody's collective effort and it's a million moving parts. I 244 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: understand that that that can take a minute to find 245 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: a rhythm, but it should take no more than a minute. Months, 246 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: you know, this is and it just costs them more 247 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: money in the long run. I never quite understood what 248 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: this sort of shut up and don't bite the hand 249 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: that feeds you mentality was. It was like, well, you're 250 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: just you're just wasting money, like as a sort of 251 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: producer inside, because I love producing and I like have 252 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: like I really love organization, and I'm like, I got 253 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: a plan, I got a plan. I know exactly how 254 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: we can do this. And it's like, no, let's make 255 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: it as chaotic and you know, crazy and exhausting and 256 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: dangerous and and cost as much as possible. That sounds 257 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: like a bad plan. 258 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's move the camera thirty times for you know, 259 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: one scene. It's a very bizarre thing that I would 260 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: notice with some of our guest directors. They would come 261 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: in and it was it was as if they had 262 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: not worked before, even though they were successful and they 263 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: had worked, but they were all about like, this is 264 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: my time and I'm going to stretch it as much 265 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: as I want. And on like our fourteen, I would 266 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: be like, are you kidding? Yeah, Like we don't need 267 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: to do ten takes. We're all professionals here. We nailed 268 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: it on the first take. And why do you have 269 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, four different close ups of me? Like my 270 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: face is not that interesting. We don't need this. 271 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: It only makes so many expressions. 272 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: Right, like it was. Really it would get very frustrating, 273 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: and I was pretty vocal about it. I also was, 274 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, second season, I started directing, and I was 275 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: a really fast director. I was one of those that 276 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, one time I wrapped before lunch. We started 277 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: at seven, I got done at twelve and they were like, 278 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: you can't wrap this early, and I was like, yeah, 279 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: but I've already shot scenes from tomorrow, so like we're 280 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: not going to have anything to shoot tomorrow. 281 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: But they should love that. 282 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, they should have loved that because. 283 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: It saves them so much money and production is crazy expensive, 284 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: I mean. 285 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: And it gives a crew a break, you know, all 286 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: of a sudden, they work safer and more efficiently, and 287 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, the actors, when we're refreshed, we have time 288 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: to like go home and have a life and learn 289 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: our lines and our scene and our character more. We 290 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: have just more time to put into the show to 291 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: make it better. Yet it was like no, no, no, 292 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: you can't. You know, wrap before twelve hours and I 293 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: had no clue how to make it last until twelve hours. 294 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: It was like I just I can't. I can't do this, 295 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: Like it's going to be I'm going to be quick 296 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: and you guys are going to have to deal with it. 297 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: Well, you sound like my dream. So I want to 298 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: direct me. 299 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm in Well, I'll direct you anytime. It would be 300 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: a huge honor. I got to ask you something because 301 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: another thing I admire about you. You have a animal 302 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 1: sanctuary and foundation. Correct we're supposed to have. 303 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: I keep trying to get my mother to kind of 304 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: slow down on the whole rescuing them ourselves thing. We 305 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: don't have a staff for that. We don't have you know, 306 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: we have a beautiful ranch here in Utah. I live 307 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: in Utah, and we have a kennel on the ranch 308 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 2: for like those cases that my mom just can't say 309 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: no to and cannot see them be put to death, 310 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: and we bring them up and we kind of give 311 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: them a safe place to stay until we can somebody 312 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: some other rescue or get them an adopted. But we 313 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: don't even have like really the structure for getting them 314 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: posted up for adoption or any of it. So we 315 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: end up with like my mother herself personally has fourteen 316 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: dogs she's almost eighty one, and I have six now, 317 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, we need to recruit some people 318 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 2: to step in and help because we can't take them all. 319 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: But yes, we have an animal advocacy foundation my mother 320 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: really started and named after my brother, who was killed 321 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: in a car accident in eighty six, so a long 322 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: time ago, but it was my mother's way of feeling 323 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: like she could give him a legacy that he couldn't 324 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 2: give himself and do something that was really inspiring and 325 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: passionate for her and for me. We're just big animal 326 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 2: people and we have a huge crisis in our country. 327 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: And so for the last I wanst say, fifteen years 328 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: we've been you get, like my mother keeps saying, sort 329 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: of like the mafia, like once you're in, you're in, 330 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 2: you can't get out because once you know and you're 331 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: made aware and you see it, you can't you can't 332 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: turn away. So we just keep plugging along trying to 333 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: make a difference. It's tough. It's one of those problems 334 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: that there is a solution. It's just to get everybody 335 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: on board to move in that direction. It's difficult. There's 336 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: so many opinions and people involved, laws and lawmakers. But 337 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: we're trying. So Yeah, it's really passion. 338 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I know it's really bad here in 339 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: Los Angeles that like Downy, and there's a couple of rescues, 340 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: not rescues, but shelters that are really bad. That the 341 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: rate that they uthanize the dogs is insane, Like the 342 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: dogs are there for a couple of days. I's held 343 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: in the back, not even seen. 344 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's almost impossible. And I can't even blame 345 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: the shelter workers or the shelters. They are sewing over 346 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: the heads. They are so overwhelmed and these are not 347 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: My mom works with a lot of those shelters and 348 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 2: with Downey and with easily all. 349 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: Of it, Lancaster, all of those. 350 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and these people are trying so hard, but there 351 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: is there aren't enough people at this point to rescue 352 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 2: and adopt these dogs. There's more dogs than there are people, 353 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: and We recently talked to Matt who runs the ASPCA, 354 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 2: and he said, a big part of the problem is 355 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: the the housing in Los Angeles has now a lot 356 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: of it. A lot of the renters are not allowed 357 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: to have animals, so people are relinquishing their animals so 358 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: that they can get an apartment. And you know, here 359 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 2: we are, and the breeding is a problem, and the. 360 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: The Spade neuter laws not being upheld and forced. 361 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean at this point they're putting down thousands, 362 00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 2: thousands probably you know, every month. It's bad. And these 363 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: are adoptable, healthy animals. These are not you know, the complicated, 364 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 2: difficult animals, the vicious or sick or elderly. These are 365 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: like mothers with. 366 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: Puppies, mothers with puppies, that's correct. Like I think I 367 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: just reposted this woman Rita, who is a volunteer at 368 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: a couple of different shelters, and she really goes in 369 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: and plays with them and assesses them and you know, 370 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: if they are like a bite risk, that's a different story. 371 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: If they're this, they're that. But she really likes to 372 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: do videos of showing that these dogs are, you know, wonderful, 373 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: They're a wonderful addition, to a family. They may not 374 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: be a pure breed. Maybe they are, but because they 375 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: come from a shelter, if people aren't necessarily interested, which 376 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: I don't really understand. I'm like, you can go get 377 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: a German Shepherd from a shelter. 378 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: I know. It was really weird the other day up 379 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: here at my daughter's softball game there was a really 380 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: cute German Shepherd puppy and I went to pet them, 381 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: and you know, I said, did you did you rescue 382 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: because there are so many There are so many German 383 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 2: shepherds and so many beautiful German Shepherd puppies and so I, 384 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: you know, and he went, no, we got this one 385 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 2: from a breeder in Costa Rica. I went coast, like, 386 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: you went to Costa Rica to get a dog? We 387 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: have thousands in the shelters here that are like basically free, bro. 388 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you might have to pay like a small 389 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: fee to the shelter, but like, it's just it's a 390 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: little insane to me, the idea that people are actually 391 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: like spending their money that like buying a dog that 392 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: might be a couple grand, when they could be rescuing 393 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: one that's equally as wonderful, equally as beautiful, equally as 394 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: perfect a family dog for like two hundred bucks. You know, 395 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: it's just kind of a here I go again with 396 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: my whole like budgeting. But I just I don't get it. 397 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 2: I think there's a real misconception about rescuing, which is 398 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: really unford fortunate. I thought by now that more people 399 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: would get it that, you know, the idea of like 400 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: a pure bread purchased dog is kind of a fallacy. 401 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: You can't purchase perfection, Like there's no guarantee that the 402 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: dog will I had Like before, I knew there was 403 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: a problem. Back when I was like nineteen, I bought 404 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: a miniature Schnauzer Romeo from a breeder in San Diego. 405 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: Purchased this dog from an upstanding breeder. He was the 406 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: weirdest looking Schauzer like with his like crazy long back legs, 407 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: and he was real curmudgeony. You know, you're not guaranteeing 408 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 2: some kind of perfect animal if you buy it, Like, 409 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if people just don't realize that. I 410 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: don't know if it's a status thing. I don't know 411 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 2: what it is. I wish I could just get megaphone 412 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 2: and explain. 413 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it is from you know, a totally 414 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: different like decade that just keeps on rolling over because 415 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: I know, you know, I did the same thing. I 416 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: got a German shepherd from Germany. You know, paid an 417 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: astronomical amount. Was she amazing? Yes, she was? She was. 418 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: She came trained. You know, you could not get near 419 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: me without that dog, you know, growling at you or 420 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: warning you to back off. I felt very safe around her. 421 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: You know. When I got married, my husband at the 422 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: time gave me a new German Shepherd because my other 423 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: German shepherd had passed. And yes, she comes from a 424 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: breeder in Germany. But I'm like, I love my dog 425 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: more than anything else in the world. I just wish 426 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: that she was not so high strung, which is what 427 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: you get from a lot of these breeders. You get 428 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: the dog that's like a little off mentally, a little 429 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: too aggressive to this to that, Because then I would have, 430 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: you know, twenty dogs running around my property versus you know, 431 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: one who if she sees another dog, she's in a 432 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: lunge and try to kill it. Yeah, but that mentality 433 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: does come from a different decade. I think it comes 434 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: from like the nineties, where it was a little bit 435 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: more about decadence and status and all of that. But 436 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: we're in the two thousands. Why we don't understand that 437 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: every single time that we get from a breeder a dog, 438 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: that we're taking away the life of probably ten dogs. 439 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a like a odd discrepancy between 440 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 2: you know, this little beautiful dog that you're looking at 441 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: that you got from your breeder and being able to 442 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: see that there are hundreds of them just like your 443 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: dog that you love so much that you would do 444 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 2: anything for suffering. It's like it's like you can't kind 445 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: of put the two together or something. A lot of 446 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 2: people and I didn't you know until I It was 447 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: like a random thing. My mom went to go get 448 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: her nails done and saw sign on the salon door 449 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: about like a rescue meeting, uh, you know, help meeting donations, 450 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: and she was like, oh, I can help, And she 451 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 2: wrote a check, but she forgot to sign it. So 452 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: the woman who ran the rescue was at her door 453 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 2: like the next day, you know, because they need that 454 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 2: money so badly. And so they struck up kind of 455 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 2: a friendship and a relationship, and my mother became more 456 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 2: and more aware than made me more and more aware 457 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: she's really good at lecturing me, and yeah, I guess. 458 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: And then I was like, oh, well, no, I can't 459 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 2: turn back, you know, because I had purchased three of 460 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 2: the dogs I've had, yeah, and all Schnauzer's always like 461 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 2: a Schnauzer person, and thinking that was the only way. 462 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 2: And then now it's like I can. I say to 463 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: my friends all the time, if you're, you know, ready 464 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: for a dog, or if you want a family dog, 465 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: or if you want another family dog when one has passed, 466 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: just call. We can get you pretty much anything for rescue. 467 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: Like it's crazy. There's so many purebreads and purebread rescues 468 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: out there. There's no at this point, there's really no 469 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 2: reason to purchase unless you're purchasing like a fully trained 470 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: because you're gonna pay for that regardless of what we trained. Thought. 471 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: Mine are like a one back there on my bed, 472 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: but he's wearing his diaper because he's not trained. He's old. 473 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 2: And it's not because he's old that he peeces all 474 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: over my house. It's because he's not tracked. But I'm 475 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 2: okay with that. Some people are not, so, you know, 476 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 2: but I think that, yeah, I think at this point 477 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be as loud about it as 478 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: I can be without being like, without turning everybody off. 479 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, that's that is a big thing. People are, 480 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to be hit over the 481 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: head with the information. You have to feed it to 482 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: them in just the right way. Yet I know that 483 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: my personality is I get so upset and emotional about it. 484 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: Like I do a lot of stuff with wild horses 485 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: and just horses in general, and I'm astonished at the 486 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: amount of horses that end up in slaughter pins because 487 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: the people can't care for the horse anymore, or because 488 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: they never took care of it properly, so now it's 489 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: got a bad leg. Yet they don't really understand that 490 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: that horse they're dropping it off at a slaughter pin, 491 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere good. Is going to Mexico where 492 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: they dismember it alive. So like, that's what you're doing 493 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: to your horse that has maybe you know, helped you 494 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: plow the fields for years and years and years. And 495 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: then our wild horses. It's insane to me that we 496 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: have a government that rounds up the wild horses, like 497 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: the very fabric of what this country is about right, 498 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: cowboys and Indians and horses and all of that. There's books, 499 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: there's poems, there's songs written about it. So what's interesting 500 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: to me is that we have somehow become a little 501 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: desensitized to what we do to our animals. It's almost like, oh, well, 502 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's a clock on their life and it's time, 503 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: so let me just drop them off with the shelter. 504 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: Let me just drop them off it. 505 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's shocking. You would love my mother. And anytime 506 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: you want to come up to Utah and ride any 507 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: of our horses, just come or thank you. We have 508 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 2: three wild horses on our ranch now from the on achy. 509 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: We tried, we tried really hard to stop that roundup 510 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: and we couldn't. And so all the people involved, there 511 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: was lots of us, and every one of us rescued 512 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: or took at least one or two so that they 513 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: would not go to the slaughter pens. It's horrifying. It 514 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: gives me chills. The lack of empathy and compassion to me, 515 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 2: it's it's barbaric, and it makes me so angry, and 516 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: I don't know sometimes how to even That's why I 517 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: hide in Utah. I just I don't know how to 518 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: deal with the world that can behave like this. So 519 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: many people drop old sick dogs at the shelter after 520 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 2: spending that dog's whole life with them, and then you 521 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: just abandon them when they're old and sick and not 522 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: you know, like play fetch anymore. Like it makes me 523 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: I have no patience for that. I have no compassion. 524 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: I suppose I should. Everybody has complicated lives, but I 525 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 2: hate the idea of treating the innocent and the voiceless 526 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: as if we aren't responsible for them, as if tecting 527 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: them then our responsibility. 528 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: So as if that person would want to be you know, 529 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: dropped off. Like I look at myself and I'm like, well, 530 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: I have cancer. You know, my cancer keeps on getting worse. 531 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: I can't imagine if my mom, who essentially like lives 532 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: with me basically three days week she's not here, but 533 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: the rest of the time she's here, so she lives 534 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: with me. I can't imagine her being like, oh god, 535 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: it's just too exhausting to deal with Shannon in her cancer. 536 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm done, you know, like, who oh my god. 537 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great analogy actually, because maybe that will 538 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: make people really understand it because we're talking about I mean, 539 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: I can get real like philosophical and go off into 540 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: like weird spirit realms and stuff, but I truly believe 541 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: that these creatures are of the same sort of divine 542 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: or universal or positive energetic energy that we all are 543 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: that runs through this whole world we have the great 544 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: blessing of getting to live in and especially you know, 545 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 2: here in Utah. But I just can't. I can't wrap 546 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: my brain around people who just don't seem to understand 547 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 2: that significance or oh, it's just an animal, it's like, 548 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: but it's still feelings, and it feels pain and fear 549 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 2: and loneliness, and you can't relate human like, what's the 550 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: problem here. I don't know. I'm that's one of those 551 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: things I'll get real mouthing about. 552 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: Well, no, because it's true. It's like, all right, well, 553 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: you know you go to Yulin and be burned alive 554 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: and do all of this stuff. It's again, you're right, 555 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: we have no empathy or some people, the majority of people, 556 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: it seems, are devoid of empathy anymore for animals, for 557 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: living things. And you know, I'm certainly not preachy where 558 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you should all be vegans. You should 559 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: be vegetarians, like I'm not. I go back and forth 560 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: from trying to be a vegetarian too then feeling like, Okay, 561 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: my body needs a little bit more protein. So it's 562 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: not about being preachy. It's about putting yourself in a 563 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: a animal shoes who that you know feels all of 564 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: these things. I mean they all feel these things, but 565 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: that you bring into your home, that you nurture, you love, 566 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: They spend time with your children, They are part of 567 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: your life for so long. And then you're like, well 568 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: I just don't have time for this dog, or oh 569 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: I have to move and the place I found doesn't 570 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: accept animals. It's like, well, we'll look somewhere else. 571 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 2: You'll find somewhere else. 572 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: Well, you know, maybe you don't get to be in 573 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: that neighborhood, maybe you go to a different neighborhood, but 574 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: you'll find something. They don't just abandon a family member. 575 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: And I wonder if people really understand too. And it's 576 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: misleading when we say shelter. We think safe shelter, a 577 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 2: place they can be and be safe. That's not what 578 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 2: our shelters are anymore. I don't know if they ever were, 579 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: but they certainly aren't now. They are where they house 580 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 2: them uncomfortably in pens and cages with massive amounts of 581 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: them barking and freaking out and scared for just a 582 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: few days until they killed them in the back room. 583 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: So that's what that's We need to change the name. 584 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 2: It needs to be called prison for animals with you know, 585 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: an an inherent death sentence. So I don't know, maybe 586 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 2: people don't realize that. I know. I mean I've been 587 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 2: in situations where I took an older dog from a 588 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 2: really lovely older woman in Rhode Island when I was 589 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 2: working there, and I had hoped the sign was part 590 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: of the props, like set design and looking for a 591 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: home for my old one hundred and Mojo was like 592 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty pounds or something shepherd mix. I 593 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 2: can no longer keep him, and I was like, who 594 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 2: would do that? He's old and he's huge, Like who's 595 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: going to take this dog? When I met her, you know, 596 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 2: she had lost her job, she needed to move in 597 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 2: with her daughters. They lived in a place where they 598 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: could not have an animal, certainly not that size, and 599 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 2: she had a young son who with a disability and 600 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: he was in a wheelchair and he was so attached 601 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: to this dog, but because of his living situation, he 602 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: couldn't take him either, because he was in an assisted 603 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: living situation. It was the most awful. I said, I 604 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: will take your dog, and they brought him. I was 605 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: so sad. And they brought him to set and they 606 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 2: took ad bite to him, and it was so awful. 607 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,919 Speaker 2: And this poor kid was just devastated. And his mother 608 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 2: was devastated because she didn't want to do this to 609 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 2: him either, but she didn't have a choice. And that 610 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 2: dog sat in my trailer and just toweled for hours. 611 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 2: It was I don't know that he ever really recovered. 612 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 2: It was so sad. But that's like, that's what I 613 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 2: think people are missing when they do it cavalierly. You know, 614 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 2: this dog only knows you, only loves you, feels its 615 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 2: life purpose is to be your companion. And so when 616 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 2: you abandon it, it doesn't un understand, It doesn't know why, 617 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't have the ability to. It must 618 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: have been just too much for him. They don't they 619 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 2: just wait, they wait for you to return. 620 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: No, they're getting dumped at a shelter that I can't 621 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: remember the name of the shelter, But it wasn't that 622 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: long ago. It was like maybe a month ago or 623 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: something where it came out that they weren't even using 624 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: the uh you know, the shot that they give before 625 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: they euthanize the dog in order to like calm it 626 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: down where it doesn't feel the pain of the the 627 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: nation of like going through his body, because that basically 628 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: like stops their heart and it's not pleasant. So this 629 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 1: place wasn't even using that. So these dogs were being 630 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: put down in a in an even more cruel way, 631 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: being walked to the back and then just shot up 632 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: with something that like sees their heart and. 633 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,919 Speaker 2: It's like become now just like a like a factory work, 634 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: you know, just get them out, get them out, get 635 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: them out. We don't have around, we don't have room, 636 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 2: we don't have a room. It's like, I don't even know. 637 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 2: I feel so horrible and bad for the shelter workers 638 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: in a way, because I don't even know how you 639 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 2: what happens to your heart in a situation like that, 640 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 2: Like how much do you have to just desensitize yourself 641 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: just to get through your job and do this horrible thing? 642 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: But here in Utah we had until last year, we 643 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 2: had gas chambers and I was like, I'm sorry, what 644 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty three, what are you doing? You know what? 645 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 2: And it was like, you know, it was kind of 646 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 2: a fight because of the old cowboy mentality around here, 647 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 2: and you know, well we got them to ban them. 648 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 2: So that was a huge win. I'm incredibly grateful for, 649 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 2: you know, my Grebner and the people who really stepped 650 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 2: up to help me fight that. 651 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: That is a huge win. 652 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 2: It was crazy. We were one of three states that 653 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 2: still did this, and I was like, how can you 654 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 2: do this in this place, this sacred place, Like this 655 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 2: place is so extraordinary and beautiful and you feel so 656 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: connected to nature here. How can you do this? Like 657 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 2: what a horrible mark you're leaving on this great place. 658 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you a question about about your cancer. 659 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 2: How long have you had cancer, Shannon? 660 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: I got cancer in twenty fifteen. Okay, it went to 661 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: remission I think right at the end of twenty seventeen 662 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: or at the beginning of twenty eighteen, and then it 663 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: came back in twenty nineteen. Is stage four, yeah, breast cancer, 664 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: breast cancer, but then it spread to my bones, and 665 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: from there it's to my brain. Like last year, I 666 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,439 Speaker 1: had brain surgery, so they had to you know open 667 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: up and remove one of the larger tumors so that 668 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: they could you know, test its pathology and all of that, 669 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: and then I had brain radiation. Thank god, it was 670 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: like vocal radiation. But you know, it's something that it 671 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: I did it on the podcast. I talked about it. 672 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: That just was out because it's it's you know, there's 673 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: so many protocols. Eventually it's it's stage four cancer, Like 674 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: eventually those protocols are going to start working and you 675 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: just hope that you are on one long enough for 676 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: them to actually come up with another protocol and another 677 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: protocol or so it's it's it's really hard. I uh, 678 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: this is probably the hardest time for me that I've 679 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 1: ever had with the cancer. I've always kind of felt 680 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: very positive and like I can deal with that, and 681 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: this is definitely like I'm overly emotional, Like I want 682 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: to cry every single second at good or bad. Like 683 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: just introducing you, I was like about to start crying, 684 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,479 Speaker 1: like it just but what's really beautiful about it is 685 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: I think you become so incredibly sensitive that your eyes 686 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: are like wide open everything around you, to people to 687 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: how they react, to what you can possibly do that's 688 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: better for the world, like what your purpose here is? Yeah, 689 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: because I think I struggled with that kind of my 690 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: entire life, like being a child actor and then growing 691 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: up acting, and I just never felt like I was accepted. 692 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: I always, you know, looked at the Friends crew and 693 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I want to hang out 694 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: with jan Anison and Courtney Cox and you know, why 695 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: doesn't anybody accept me? And why am I always called 696 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: the bad girl? And then eventually it's like when you 697 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: turn forty, when you stopped caring about what people are 698 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: saying about you. That's for me. Cancer was that moment 699 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, hell no, I don't need 700 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: to hang out with any of these people. I need 701 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: to make sure I'm happy and living the best life 702 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 1: that I can while I'm still alive. 703 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 2: So in ninety six, I think my mother was diagnosed 704 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 2: with stage four breast cancer, and like I said, almost 705 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 2: eighty one now, and I mean, your experience is clearly different, 706 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 2: and I think everybody's is when it comes to this 707 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 2: sort of you know, to cancer, to health, our finger, 708 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 2: I think our bodies and our reactions to things are 709 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 2: as individual as our fingerprints. I don't think there's any 710 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 2: sort of one shoe fits all thing that just you know, 711 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 2: but I would you're probably really sick of talking about it, 712 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 2: but if you do ever want to talk to somebody 713 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 2: who's gone through it and has some I think very interesting. 714 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 2: You know how she got through it. She's really she's 715 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 2: pretty incredible. I'm very proud of my mother. I find 716 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 2: her incredibly well. She's she's brave, and she's strong, she's 717 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 2: incredibly compassionate. She's unbelievably annoying sometimes. But I really think 718 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 2: that if you ever wanted to talk to somebody that 719 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 2: she would. I would love you to talk to her, 720 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 2: because there were some things she did that were unique 721 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 2: at the time, and one of those was to work. 722 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 2: She worked with a nature path and but she chose 723 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 2: she was in a cancer group and all the other 724 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 2: women had chosen like wumpectomies and radiation, and she chose 725 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 2: to just kind of go full throttle and do the 726 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 2: mes ectomy, do the nine months of chemotherapy. And she 727 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 2: will say that it wasn't the best year of her life, 728 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 2: but it wasn't the worst. And she had some tools, 729 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 2: like she our family is definitely I'm not really well. 730 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 2: I was raised Mormon, and at the time we were 731 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 2: practicing Mormons, but I'm not really and she isn't really either, 732 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 2: like we're more. I mean, I pray and I lean 733 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 2: into the idea that this is a benevolent universe, that 734 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 2: there's an energy that feels kind. I don't think it's 735 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 2: an indifferent universe. And I'm not agnostic or an atheist, 736 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 2: but I don't know exactly how it all looks. I 737 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 2: don't need to. I like the mystery, but I do 738 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,439 Speaker 2: think that she felt she was given some answers through 739 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 2: prayer or meditation or whatever she did at that time 740 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 2: that I thought were really interesting. It was like, stay 741 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 2: away from toxic people, even if they're your family. Had 742 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 2: a few and she I think the other one was 743 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 2: rest when you need it. Don't try to push through it, 744 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 2: don't try to get back on your feet and whatever. 745 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 2: Just rest. And then I can't remember what the third 746 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 2: ones I think it might have been, like, was it 747 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 2: till like write down you know what what you were 748 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: really feeling, like the real shit, not the like I'll 749 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 2: be okay, but. 750 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: We do tend to do that we tend to, as 751 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: your mom would probably agree with me on, we tend 752 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 1: to look at everybody and go, no, we're fine, we're fine, 753 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,800 Speaker 1: We're fine. It's I don't even think it's about reassuring ourselves. 754 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,760 Speaker 1: It's about reassuring everyone around us. 755 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're uncomfortable and makes you uncomfortable, right, yeah. 756 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: But I would assume that that would be incredibly healthy 757 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: and getting some of that toxic energy out of where 758 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: you are super scared, but you're not able to us 759 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: it right to the people that love you and that 760 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,399 Speaker 1: are in your life all the time because you're trying 761 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: to protect them. But to just get it out on paper, 762 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: it's like it gets it out in the universe and gone, yeah. 763 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that you know, that goes for 764 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,720 Speaker 2: almost anything, but I think it's especially important when you're 765 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 2: sort of warring with your body, you know, and warring 766 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 2: with you. I think being able to just be like 767 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 2: deeply honest about how that really makes you feel, without 768 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 2: worrying about anybody else's feelings or anybody else's reaction or 769 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 2: anybody else's need to make it right and make it 770 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,799 Speaker 2: right and make right and find a solution for you 771 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 2: because that's you know, a very human reaction too, when 772 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 2: you see somebody love and you know that is suffering, 773 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 2: but like it is a lot of energy to then 774 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 2: take on as the person who's dealing with it. So yeah, 775 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not Life's not for pussies. 776 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: That's a really good saying. I like that one a lot, 777 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 1: and I'll probably take you up on horseback riding's coming 778 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: and getting that Utah energy. 779 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 2: I would love to host you. I just think we 780 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,840 Speaker 2: would have such a good time together. And I just think, 781 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 2: you know, it's so interesting because I get asked on 782 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 2: occasion to do a podcast here there, but I typically, 783 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 2: you know, like I said, I'm kind of here in Utah, 784 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 2: like not even in the world anymore of Hollywood as much, 785 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 2: But this one, I was like, yes, yes, I'll do that. 786 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 2: I like, I'd really like to talk to Shannon already. 787 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:34,840 Speaker 2: That's very exciting. 788 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: So that's a huge honor. I mean, I gotta tell you, 789 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: I've got like pages and pages and pages of like 790 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: from my producer. She does. She's so good, she does 791 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,959 Speaker 1: so much hard work, and I'm like, what I love 792 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,880 Speaker 1: when I get someone like you on that. You know, 793 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: I do have a lot of admiration for is when 794 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: you just click and you have an honest conversation and 795 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 1: it goes where it goes, and nothing's prepared and it 796 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: just is what it is. 797 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, Actually I tend to I'm not very good 798 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 2: at staying on track. 799 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: Are you kidding? I'm not good at it either. It 800 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: was unbelievable, like, honestly my favorite person I've interviewed so far, 801 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: And I thank you, like, I'm not going to take 802 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 1: up the rest of your day because I think we've 803 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: covered a lot. Is there anything that you want to cover? 804 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 2: No, I'm just very grateful to've been asked to be 805 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 2: here today. I am like very I don't get a 806 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 2: lot of these kinds of conversations. I have a fifteen 807 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,879 Speaker 2: year old, a twelve year old, and a seven year old. 808 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 2: You know, they don't want to talk about this sort 809 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 2: of stuff. And then there's my mom, and we talked 810 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,359 Speaker 2: twice a day every day, so it's like you kind 811 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 2: of run out of interesting topics. So I'm just grateful 812 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 2: to have gotten to have this really lovely interesting conversation 813 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 2: with such a lovely interesting woman. 814 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,879 Speaker 1: Thank you. You're going to make me cry, seriously, You'll 815 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: make me cry again an honor, and I'll see you 816 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,240 Speaker 1: in Utah, and please tell your mom. She'll get my number. 817 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,399 Speaker 1: She can give me all. I would love to talk 818 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: to her because I think somebody who's been there, who's 819 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: done it, I don't think you're ever over it. Whether 820 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,319 Speaker 1: you're cured not cured, you're still in the midst of it. 821 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: It's always nice to connect with someone who you know 822 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: has gone through it, is going through it, and that 823 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: maybe is doing something different that could you know you 824 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: would just open you up to a totally different experience. 825 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, perspective is tough, and so it's if 826 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 2: you can maybe you know, maybe there will be something 827 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:36,359 Speaker 2: in the conversation that inspires or shifts or or even 828 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,479 Speaker 2: just comforts you know, or maybe not, but it's worth 829 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 2: a shot. 830 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: And if you need any help with dog stuff over 831 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: there in Utah, let me know. I love you, thank you, 832 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: I will help. It's like my passion. It's what I 833 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: care a lot about, along with educating people in cancer. 834 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: So whatever you need for me, I'm here for you, 835 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: and vice versa. 836 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 2: In Utah. All right, thank you,