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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal and Dee, we do less

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Speaker 1: interesting stories we are following this morning. Trump has not

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Speaker 1: been indicted yet and doesn't look like he's going to

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Speaker 1: be indicted today. But we'll give you an update about

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Speaker 1: everything we know there to the extent that we know

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Speaker 1: anything there. We also have some new indicators about how

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Speaker 1: Ronda Santis is bearing in all of this. More Trump response,

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Speaker 1: more mag response, more poll numbers, all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Also huge decision made by the Fed yesterday about what

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Speaker 1: they're going to do with interest rates, and crazy day

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Speaker 1: in the stock market too, as Drome Pal and Treasury

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Speaker 1: Secretary Janet Yellen seemed to be at odds in what

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Speaker 1: they were laying out in terms of the economy. So

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Speaker 1: we'll dig into some of those details. It's really quite interesting.

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Speaker 1: We also have some details of that meeting between Putin

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Speaker 1: and she, what came out of that, what does it

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Speaker 1: mean for us? And a crazy story. So we followed

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Speaker 1: this when it initially broke. Rolling Stone had this gigantic

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Speaker 1: piece about this journalist whose home was rated by the FB,

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Speaker 1: and they really tried to make it seem like this

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Speaker 1: had to do directly with his work. You especially were

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Speaker 1: immediately skeptical and actually, I don't know that you said

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Speaker 1: it on air because you don't want to just like

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Speaker 1: casually accuse someone of having kiddy porn. But that is

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Speaker 1: in fact ended up happening. I've seen enough of these

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Speaker 1: because the way that they rolled up on him was

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Speaker 1: over the So anyway it turns out Rolling Stone, it

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Speaker 1: seems like new at the time time that was likely

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Speaker 1: the real reason. They had a source who said that

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Speaker 1: was likely the real reason that he was rated. But

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Speaker 1: the editor of Rolling Stone was like, buddies with this

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Speaker 1: dude and strip that out of the piece. Huge blow

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Speaker 1: up over there. Incredible reporting about exactly went down quite

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Speaker 1: an astonishing story. So we'll get into all of that,

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Speaker 1: and really excited to talk to our guest today, David Thibodeau,

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Speaker 1: a survivor of Waco. This comes as there's a new

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Speaker 1: Netflix documentary about everything that went down there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: an crazy, atrocious seminal moment in terms of American history

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Speaker 1: and American politics. So really looking forward to that as well.

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Speaker 1: Me too. I read his book. We're going to recommend

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Speaker 1: it as well. Yeah, it's a fantastic I also read

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Speaker 1: his book. I'm Taber's recommendation. Yeah, great book. Also, as

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Speaker 1: a reminder to everybody, you can go ahead and watch

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Speaker 1: the show on Spotify if you are a premium member

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Speaker 1: so Breakingpoints dot Com, I know a lot of you

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Speaker 1: guys have been taking advantage of that. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: so much to everybody. We are still working out in

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Speaker 1: terms of processing time, et cetera, but we're every single

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Speaker 1: day it's getting faster and faster and faster. So for

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Speaker 1: premium subs, you can watch the full shit on Spotify.

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Speaker 1: Toggle between audio and video if that's what you want.

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Speaker 1: You can also continue to watch it on YouTube as

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Speaker 1: we will email you guys the link every day. So

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Speaker 1: there you go with Crystal, what is going on with Trump?

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Speaker 1: All Right? Well, I don't really know what's going on

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Speaker 1: with Trump. But here's what we can tell you based

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Speaker 1: on the reporting that is out there. This is from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. They say Trump is at mar

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Speaker 1: al Lago with magical thinking and a purp walk fixation.

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Speaker 1: Those who've spent time with Trump in recent days says

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Speaker 1: often appeared significantly disconnected from the severity of his potential

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Speaker 1: legal woes. I don't know if any of this is accurate,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody except Donald Trump himself could

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Speaker 1: know whether any of this is accurate, because this is

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Speaker 1: all based on the musings people are around him, taking

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Speaker 1: in what he's saying, taking in whatever his mood is, etc.

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Speaker 1: But let me just tell you what they say here.

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Speaker 1: They say behind closed doors. Former president has told friends

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Speaker 1: and associates he welcomes the idea of being paraded by

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Speaker 1: the authorities doing that purp walk before a throng of

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Speaker 1: reporters and news cameras. He's used openly about whether he

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Speaker 1: should smile for the assembled media's Pon wondered how the

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Speaker 1: public would react. Said to have described the potential spectacle

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Speaker 1: as a fun experience. No one, they say, is really sure,

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Speaker 1: whether it's remarks of bravado or genuine resignation about what

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Speaker 1: lies ahead. If he is truly looking forward to it,

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Speaker 1: though he might be disappointed, there's no expectation that we

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Speaker 1: will actually do a purp walk. They're likely to coordinate this.

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Speaker 1: The indication is if he is indicted, which continues to

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Speaker 1: be an if not a certainty, he is expected to

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Speaker 1: surrender himself, they will likely coordinate with secret Service kind

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Speaker 1: of bring him in secretly, so there probably will not

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Speaker 1: be the purp walk. To the apparent and disappointment of

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Speaker 1: Trump himself. They have a quote here from one person

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Speaker 1: who spoke to Trump over the weekend. They said he

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Speaker 1: wants to be defiant and to show the world that

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Speaker 1: if they can try to do this to him, they

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Speaker 1: can do it to anyone. What do you make of

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Speaker 1: those saga. I think it's actually the smartest move that

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Speaker 1: he could make, because what they're pointing out is that

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Speaker 1: mister Trump is not focused on the particulars. It's like, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: now this is all being tried in the court of

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Speaker 1: public opinion. He is literally one of the most recognizable

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Speaker 1: figures on the planet. I did find funny the idea

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Speaker 1: that they might mug shot him. The entire purpose of

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Speaker 1: mug shot is to have an official photograph of somebody

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Speaker 1: in the event that they like go missing or something.

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Speaker 1: You're like, he probably is one of the most photo Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I wouldn't be eventure to say he's probably

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Speaker 1: the most photograph person literally on the entire planet. Obama

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Speaker 1: was before him, so you know, there's no expectation as

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Speaker 1: to why that would have changed. No, I actually think

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Speaker 1: it would be the correct strategy. It would be one

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Speaker 1: defiance making it into a show, and let's be honest, like,

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Speaker 1: this is what he is the best at. He's the

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Speaker 1: master of PR like showing you that he's being persecuted,

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Speaker 1: whether he says something or not, like an image of

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Speaker 1: him smiling. It's almost like, you know, you think back

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Speaker 1: to like the John Gotties and all those other people,

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Speaker 1: the way that they were able to weaponize PR and

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Speaker 1: then have real impacts on the legal system. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it basically in the exact same way. So this

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Speaker 1: look many of his advisors like he needs to be

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Speaker 1: more focused on the law. I'm like, I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: because of a you're gonna have good lawyers. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know about Trump, but we'll see you will have

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Speaker 1: lawyers that can make a competent case at the very

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Speaker 1: least on that. What you need to do is try

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Speaker 1: and put an exert as much public pressure as possible.

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Speaker 1: And this is exactly the way that anybody would do it.

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Speaker 1: And he is, look, perhaps one of the greatest showmen

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Speaker 1: of all time, So give people a show. My instinct

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Speaker 1: is that the purp walk and all the visible the mugshot,

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Speaker 1: if he gets handcuffed, like all of that stuff, I

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Speaker 1: think that benefits him definitely with the Republican base, no question,

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Speaker 1: general electorate. I don't know. I think I have no idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I in my instinct is it probably cuts in the

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Speaker 1: other direction with the general electorate, because you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a real normy instinct of just like you know, you

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Speaker 1: get arrested, you get indicted, you're handcuffed, your purp walked

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Speaker 1: like you did something wrong. So terms of, you know,

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Speaker 1: down the road, I think it is maybe not the

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Speaker 1: best call. But in terms of this moment right now,

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Speaker 1: I see his thinking. I'll also say that remember this,

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Speaker 1: all of this speculation really ramped up when he put

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Speaker 1: out that true social saying that he thought he would

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Speaker 1: be arrested on Tuesday. Now he was not arrested on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: and there was reporting at the time. This is just

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Speaker 1: like he doesn't really have any inside information. He's just

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Speaker 1: putting this out there. I think that was also a

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Speaker 1: very smart and savvy move because number one, it cuts

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Speaker 1: out the element of surprise in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: the DA and whatever they want to accomplish here. And

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Speaker 1: number two, it gives his people the time to come

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Speaker 1: up with what their talking points are, you know, marshal

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Speaker 1: their own public defense before the DA and others can

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Speaker 1: really say anything because they haven't indicted him yet, so

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Speaker 1: they can't make their case yet. It makes it an

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Speaker 1: asymmetric situation because he and his side of this can

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Speaker 1: fully come out and make their case against the indictment

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Speaker 1: and say this is a witch hunt, this is political

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Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg is, you know, connected with George Soros and

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Speaker 1: all of this stuff before the other side really has

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Speaker 1: an ability to respond. So, you know, in hindsight, I

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Speaker 1: think that was actually a very clever strategic political move.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, now the media is one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: fully focused and with Trump, I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: things with Trump is he at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: what he loves most is attention, and you can't deny, Like, look,

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Speaker 1: we have to talk about Trump. Everybody has talked about Trump,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of those where like he he is

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Speaker 1: a former president. If he gets arrested, it literally would

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Speaker 1: be one of the most insane moments in American history,

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Speaker 1: you know, So I did some reading historical knowledge. One

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Speaker 1: only one former president has ever been arrested, although he

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Speaker 1: was not indicet. It was former Ulysses S. Grant and

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Speaker 1: it was like a municipal thing having to do with

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Speaker 1: like horses or something like that here in DC. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was like a DC cop who like didn't know

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Speaker 1: who he was. So that is that is literally the

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Speaker 1: only time that a former president has ever technically I've

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Speaker 1: been arrested, and even then it wasn't thrown in jail

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Speaker 1: or anything. I'll get the details for everybody, but the

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Speaker 1: point is that it's never happened, not even Nixon. So

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Speaker 1: it would be a landmark event no matter what. And

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Speaker 1: that's why we're forced to cover what's going on here

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Speaker 1: and with the grand jury. As you said, it's literally

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Speaker 1: like kremlinology. We're like, what's happening. Yeah, okay, Well they're

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Speaker 1: not meeting yesterday. That means it wouldn't have happen yesterday.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it can happen today if they do convene.

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Speaker 1: Even if they do convene, they may not necessarily issue

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Speaker 1: an indictment. We have no idea. Well, I do think

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Speaker 1: that that's an important note, is there's an active assumption

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Speaker 1: now that of course the grand jury will indict, which

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Speaker 1: they probably will, but it's not a guarantee. So I

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Speaker 1: do think that's important to put out there, is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they are human beings who get to make

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Speaker 1: a decision, have minds of their own, et cetera. So

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Speaker 1: it's not one hundred percent guaranteed that things are going

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Speaker 1: to go the way that we expect them to go.

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Speaker 1: Put this next piece up on the screen, and I

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Speaker 1: have an update on this as well. So this was

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Speaker 1: reporting originally from Insider, This Politico tear sheet we have

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Speaker 1: here Trump grand jury called off for Wednesday. They were

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Speaker 1: told to stay home yesterday on standby for today. Insider

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Speaker 1: had an updated report that it has also been called

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Speaker 1: off for today. Now, this grand jury typically meets on Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday, so today would be the last day

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Speaker 1: that they would be expected to meet this week, so

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Speaker 1: they have also been called off for today. That likely

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Speaker 1: means we're not going to see an indictment anytime this week, right,

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Speaker 1: and it gets pushed into next week. So that's as

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Speaker 1: far as we know about, you know, potential timing here,

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Speaker 1: That is what we can tell you. Yeah, I truly

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Speaker 1: have no idea. I was telling you I will be

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Speaker 1: in New York City tomorrow and over the weekend up

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Speaker 1: until Monday, so if anything does pop off, I'll try

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Speaker 1: to go down there to the courthouse. Yeah, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: That timing works out for me too. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be doing the Flagrant podcast shout out to Andrew Schultz

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Speaker 1: on Monday, so yet any time before that, we'll see

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, we're gonna be all over the place.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna you'll be doing that. You'll be doing that

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Speaker 1: with Andrew Schultz, and I'm gonna be on with Russell Brand.

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Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, little shameless plug here. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: getting a little bit of a sense of how the

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Speaker 1: American people feel about this potential indictment, and quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: this is not surprising to me at all. Put this

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Speaker 1: up on the screen from Reuters. Basically, they feel like

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Speaker 1: there's probably something to this charge, like they believe the

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Speaker 1: hush money story, but they also fail think that the

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Speaker 1: potential prosecution is politically motivated, which you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: makes sense to me, is a common sense position. Let

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Speaker 1: me give you some of the specific numbers here. They

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Speaker 1: say about half of Americans believe in New York investigation

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Speaker 1: into whether Trump paid hush money to a porn star

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Speaker 1: is politically motivated. A large majority find the allegations believable, though,

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Speaker 1: according to a Reuter's IPSOS opinion poll, That two day poll,

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Speaker 1: which ended on Tuesday, found fifty four percent of respondents,

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Speaker 1: including eighty percent of the President's fellow Republicans and thirty

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Speaker 1: two percent of Democrats, thought that politics was driving the

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Speaker 1: criminal case. So even a third of Democrats ay as

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Speaker 1: kind of politically motivated. Seventy percent of respondents, including half

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Speaker 1: of Republicans, say it was believable that Trump, during his

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen presidential campaign, paid the adult film actress Stormy

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Speaker 1: Daniels for her silence about an alleged sexual encounter, and

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Speaker 1: sixty two percent of respondents, so a healthy majority, including

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Speaker 1: a third of Republicans, that it was also believable that

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Speaker 1: Trump falsified business record and committed fraud. So make of

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Speaker 1: that which you will. People tend to think, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: probably some politics involved. They also tend to think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he probably did the stuff that he's accused of. So

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Speaker 1: what does that mean. I have no idea. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I again, think about it on importance. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those where like, no Republican voter was ever like, you know, Trump,

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Speaker 1: that's a real stand up family guy. That's somebody who

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Speaker 1: percent That's who we're voting for. That's never ever been

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Speaker 1: the case. Even the evangelicals who backed him were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we think he's personally a scumbag. They're like, which, we

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Speaker 1: just think he's gonna do what we wanted to do justice,

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Speaker 1: which he did. Yeah, we want those square. They made

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Speaker 1: a deal with the devil and they won. So one

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Speaker 1: of those where I would look at this in terms

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Speaker 1: of political import and again you look, trying to judge

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Speaker 1: general electorate to this point is nearly impossible. We do

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Speaker 1: have very good evidence from the last midterm election cycle

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Speaker 1: that stopped this deal was probably the most potent general

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Speaker 1: election weapon against Trump. So I do think indicting him

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Speaker 1: on some be like bookkeeping fraud on a long time

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Speaker 1: payment to a porn star which was his own money,

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Speaker 1: and then not recording it properly is not even close

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Speaker 1: to the level of political import for most people, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to I don't know, you know, calling the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State and potentially trying to get him to

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Speaker 1: be signing me x number of votes that one people

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Speaker 1: do care a lot about. And we've already had a

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Speaker 1: run of this twenty sixteen access Hollywood. He's dead. There's

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Speaker 1: no way can survive. Everybody denounced him. He wins, so

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Speaker 1: most people didn't care, or at the very least a

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Speaker 1: lot of Republicans didn't care. Don't forget, he did win

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Speaker 1: some fifty four percent of white women in the twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen election and actually increased is margined with white women

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Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty election, So there is no evidence

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Speaker 1: in any of this stuff actually matters ye to female

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Speaker 1: voters and others. To the extent that suburban voters were

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Speaker 1: turned off was because they're pissed off about stop Steel

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Speaker 1: and probably on Roe versus Wade. So as usual things

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Speaker 1: of actually important to people usually are what they vote

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Speaker 1: on and influence their political decisions. Trump as a lecturius

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Speaker 1: shady dude is just baked into the dah. It's one

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Speaker 1: of those notions across the board. I mean, what I

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Speaker 1: will say is I think that for people who are

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump has his loyalists, that none of these

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Speaker 1: prosecutions are going to matter for if anything, it'll just

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Speaker 1: strengthen their commitment to him. We're already seeing that in

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Speaker 1: the polls, and we'll talk in a minute about Ron

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Speaker 1: de Santis. For people who are you know, more on

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Speaker 1: the opposed to Trump's side, which is a majority of

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Speaker 1: Americans based on the polling, I don't know that they.

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Speaker 1: I think there may be a sense of just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this guy deserves to be popped for something,

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Speaker 1: and so even if the particular details of these allegations

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Speaker 1: are kind of like baked into the cake, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling that a majority of those folks

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Speaker 1: do support the prosecution just in that sense of like, listen,

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Speaker 1: this guy has gotten away with so much crap. He

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Speaker 1: deserves to be popped with something. Now you should be

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Speaker 1: thinking about the individual, specific specifics of the case. So

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying put that all to the side, but

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Speaker 1: I think that may be the sense among a lot

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Speaker 1: of Americans. It's certainly possible. It could be like the

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Speaker 1: OJ thing, you know where OJ technically what it is?

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Speaker 1: What was he like pulling memorabili or whatever out of

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Speaker 1: our lights house? Al Capone popped on cash fraud? Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who knows, We'll see. Maybe bookkeeping fraud is what does it.

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Speaker 1: Although I think there's a little bit of a difference

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Speaker 1: between well j al caponents. I have a feeling you asked,

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling this is not the end of

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Speaker 1: the indictments. I think old Donnie will wriggle his way

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Speaker 1: out of this bit one one and probably all of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm just being honest again, let me, I just want

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Speaker 1: to put it out there. This none of this is guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: They still have they have to persuade the grand jury

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Speaker 1: to indict and to accept the legal theory that they

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Speaker 1: are offering here and again, you know, they always famously

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Speaker 1: feel like you can indict a ham sandwich in front

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Speaker 1: of a grand jury. That is very likely the case.

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Speaker 1: And this is Manhattan grand jury, which is very you know,

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Speaker 1: probably Drump skeptical or anti actively anti Trump. But I

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Speaker 1: just want to put out there that there are no guarantees.

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Speaker 1: So we we genuinely do have to just wait and

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Speaker 1: see what unfolds because all of the speculation up to

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Speaker 1: this point could end up being incorrect. You just don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we know. Maybe we're playing right into Trump's hands. Giving

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Speaker 1: me the attention on the next month. Speaking of Trump,

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Speaker 1: DeSantis and so much more, the primary between the two

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Speaker 1: is heating up, if you will. But let's put the

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Speaker 1: war of words aside, which we will talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about, in which Ryan Amiley did a fantastic job

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Speaker 1: of discussing yesterday. How is DeSantis doing in the polls.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Yet another poll showing mamath that Trump is not only

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Speaker 1: leading DeSantis continuing to gain in a potential presidential primary.

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Speaker 1: Trump is up forty one to twenty seven over Ron DeSantis.

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Speaker 1: As Nate Cone writes, quote, this is the longest long

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Speaker 1: term trend from a high quality poll in this race.

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Speaker 1: Since December, Trump has gained fifteen points while DeSantis has

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Speaker 1: lost twelve points. So basically directly drawing from Desanta's support,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's important to remember what was December exactly, Well,

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Speaker 1: that was immediately after the Stop the Steal losses in November,

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Speaker 1: and it shows you that a lot of GOP primary voters,

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Speaker 1: it seems, have shorter memories whenever it comes to stop

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Speaker 1: the steal and the political impact and are beginning to

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Speaker 1: be reminded why they liked Trump in the first place.

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Speaker 1: The longer and more that Trump makes it a direct

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Speaker 1: contrast with Ron DeSantis and blasting him, and DeSantis is

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Speaker 1: very wishy washy in his critiques of Trump. You know,

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Speaker 1: even then, you know, the whole like I can't even

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Speaker 1: spell to sanctimonious, which I'm going to say is sanctimonious

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Speaker 1: whenever you're a Harvard and Yale educated lawyer. Is one

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Speaker 1: of those very weak attacks. The quote it's silly season

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Speaker 1: was a ludicrous response. And then I do think though

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Speaker 1: his only good comeback was you can call me whatever

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Speaker 1: you want as long as you call me a winner.

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Speaker 1: I think it'd be stuck to that. That would be

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Speaker 1: the best one. But many of his other kind of

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Speaker 1: perries of Trump attacks really just did not seem all

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Speaker 1: that politically effective. Let's go and put the next one

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Speaker 1: here up on the screen. Morning consult another high quality

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Speaker 1: poll showing the exact same thing. March nineteenth poll shows

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Speaker 1: Trump at fifty four percent DeSantis is twenty six percent,

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Speaker 1: a similar but at the same time it shows the

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Speaker 1: similar decline because January second, twenty two, twenty three, it

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Speaker 1: had Trump at forty five and DeSantis at thirty four,

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Speaker 1: a similar drop in the amount of support for Ron

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Speaker 1: DeSantis by eight points. So everywhere you look, every primary poll,

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Speaker 1: and again you can say that the poles are wrong,

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Speaker 1: but within each pole, the consistency of the movement is

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Speaker 1: generally what people are looking at, and you see that

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Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis is suffering. So in general, Crystal, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we can but take away from this that the

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Speaker 1: longer DeSantis holes his fire and he's out of the race,

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Speaker 1: the longer then that he is going to suffer in

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Speaker 1: these polls. Similarly, the more that he's doing his pushback

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Speaker 1: and trying to draw the contrast, I am just not

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Speaker 1: buying it. So I continue to see in this Piers

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Speaker 1: Morgan interview that I went through, I tried to read it.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Piers, please just release the whole goddamn thing.

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Speaker 1: Instead of all these mishmash articles sensationalism. I just want

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Speaker 1: to read the transcript anyway, So I read what's the

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Speaker 1: fundamental critique, and it comes back to one that they've

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Speaker 1: telegraphed for a long time. I handled COVID better than Trump.

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Speaker 1: I simply do not believe that this will have any

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Speaker 1: actual resonance with the base for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 1: Number One, the reason that Trump has actually said this

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Speaker 1: because I think he's correct. The reason Desantas was able

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Speaker 1: to do what he did is because we live in

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Speaker 1: a federalist system. The president has enormous delegation and authority

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Speaker 1: to all the governors. Hence why California did something different

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Speaker 1: than Florida, which did something, than Georgia, which did something

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Speaker 1: from Indiana. State governors were the ones who were able

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Speaker 1: to set their COVID policy. Number one. Number two, they're like,

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Speaker 1: he didn't fire Fauci. Now, listen, I care a lot

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Speaker 1: about that. I definitely think Trump made a mistake, etc.

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Speaker 1: Are we really going to be voting for twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four based on a personnel decision from four years ago? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just don't believe that. By the way, again, I

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Speaker 1: wish that would be the case. I just there's no

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Speaker 1: evidence that people actually vote on that. Third. This was

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Speaker 1: implicit in Theatus critique. He said, well, I think I

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Speaker 1: will have people who are fully aligned with me whenever

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Speaker 1: they're in office. Here's the deal. I would love for

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Speaker 1: voters to pay attention to the fact that Trump hired

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Speaker 1: Gary Cohene, to the fact that Trump hired deminution John Bolden.

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Speaker 1: There's no evidence of that. I made that case all

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Speaker 1: throughout twenty twenty and I genuinely believe Trump would suffer

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Speaker 1: for not delivering on many of the policy priorities that

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Speaker 1: he said he would do in twenty sixteen. Guess what, guys,

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Speaker 1: who won ten million more votes. He only lost by

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand votes. There's no evidence of voters care about

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Speaker 1: the personnel decisions. There is no evidence that they're going

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Speaker 1: to vote on COVID policy from three and a half

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Speaker 1: years ago. When Trump can say correctly that he was

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Speaker 1: anti lockdown during the whole thing, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the personnel charge, I just don't see it.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, his best case was I don't have as

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Speaker 1: much drama. Okay, I think that's a good one. Again, though,

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Speaker 1: he looked at the base, not necessarily general election. At

428
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 1: the base likes a drama. So I just am ticking

429
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: off every single critique that he's making, and I'm like,

430
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: this seems very online. It's like an online critique of Trump, which,

431
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: by the way, I do think is correct, but is

432
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: not one that's necessarily going to resonate with a lot

433
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: of voters who guess what they just like whenever he

434
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: pisses off Mika Prasinski. That's what they've always loved about it.

435
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: It's also it's kind of a wine track type of critique.

436
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it does remind me a little bit of

437
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Warren campaign that was very like wonky in

438
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,439
Speaker 1: the weeds and all these policy papers and whatever. I mean,

439
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's exactly analogous, but specifically the

440
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: personnel critique. People care about how the personnel translates into

441
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: like what it means for their life, But are they

442
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: actually thinking about who's like, you know, Secretary of the

443
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: Treasury or whatever. You No, they want to like, Okay,

444
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 1: do I have a job? You gotta put foot on,

445
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: food on my table, et cetera. This is another example too,

446
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: of asymmetric warfare. We were talking about this with regard

447
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: to him getting in front of the indictment and spinning

448
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: it in his direction at a time before the indictment drops,

449
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: so the other side can't really marshal their forces fully

450
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: and defend whatever may be in the indictment. And meanwhile

451
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: he's going all in saying this is ridiculous, this is political,

452
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: et cetera. It's the same deal here. DeSantis is lobbing

453
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: some like tepid, sort of passive aggressive critiques at Trump,

454
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: will barely even say his name, and meanwhile Trump is

455
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: going all in. I mean, the things that are the

456
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 1: most headline grabbing are like what we covered earlier in

457
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 1: the week where he insinuates he's like a gay groomer. Okay,

458
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: but he also unloaded on his policy record in Florida

459
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: in a way that was frankly much more effective than

460
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: any democratic critique I have seen of DeSantis so far.

461
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: Just to give you a little taste of that, this

462
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: was a long truth social He talked about how Florida

463
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: ranks among the worst in the country on education. He

464
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: hit him on crime, and Florida does actually have a

465
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: like crime has spiked there, So that's a vulnerability for DeSantis,

466
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: hit him on affordability and went after him on his

467
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: handling of COVID. It was funny because it almost did

468
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: look like a democratic attack. He was like, they were

469
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: worth you know x, they were near the bottom and

470
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: terms of COVID deaths and COVID infection rates, and yeah,

471
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: eventually he opened the state after he had shut it down,

472
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: but that was because of what I was able to do.

473
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: And he said that he was an average governor, but

474
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: the best by far in the country in one category

475
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: public relations, where he easily ranks number one. But it

476
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: is all a miarage. Just look at the facts and figures.

477
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: They don't lie, and we don't want Ron as our president.

478
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: So going in on the policy case too, we actually

479
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: have that B six guys, let's go and put that

480
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: up on the screen, please, just so people can see

481
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: exactly as Crystal lays it out. It is a very

482
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: lengthy paragraph here that you can see where Ron, the

483
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: sanctimonious disciple of Paul Ryan, big lockdown governor, says quote

484
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: that his profile is all a mirage and we don't

485
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: want Ron as our president. As you said, this basically

486
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: almost reads like a Charlie christad in terms of the

487
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: worst for the total number of cases. How other Republicans

488
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: actually did much better than Ron because I allowed them freedom.

489
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: They never closed their states. He talks about how the

490
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: country's number thirty nine in help and safety, number fifty

491
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: in affordability, number thirty in education and childcare. Hardly greatness

492
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: there of course, and easy Perry is okay, Then why

493
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: do you live there? Dude? Like, why do you like?

494
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: He actually has the answer there, he says, And I

495
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 1: thought this was kind of a clever too. He's like, look,

496
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: it's amazing what ocean and sunshine will do. Surprise, Like, yeah,

497
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 1: people want to move to the state because it has

498
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: beautiful weather. But that was going on long before you

499
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: were there, dude. And he also called him Rob in

500
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: a press release. Actually I love that Meatball, Rob Trump

501
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: nieces Drop. Well, okay, we can keep to sanctimonies because

502
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: I do actually think it's a decent line of attack.

503
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: But Meatball is so okay, can we talk about sanctimonious

504
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: because I think this is an unpopular opinion, but I

505
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: actually think it's a I actually think it's a clever nickname.

506
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: I was talking to a friend of the show. I

507
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: don't know if he wants this out there or not,

508
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: so I won't say who his name is, but we

509
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: were he was making the case, and I think this

510
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: is true that like DeSantis's whole pitch is I'm Trump

511
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: without the drama, and by labeling him to sanctimonious, whenever

512
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: he tries to lean into that like I'm above the

513
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: fray thing instead of reading as above the fray, now

514
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: it's implanted in people's head is like, oh, you're sanctimonius,

515
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: your snobby. You think you're better than us, That's why

516
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: you're acting this way, and so it really undercuts it

517
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: goes after his strength. Yes, and that's why I actually

518
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: think it's an underrated nickname in my personal opinion. Yeah,

519
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: I absolutely one agree with the sanctimonious. I think it's correct.

520
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: As I said, you can't pretend that you don't know

521
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: how to spell to sanctimonious because the quote has too

522
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: many vowels. Whenever you literally are an Ivy League educated lawyer,

523
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: like stop. It reminds me of that that viral clip

524
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: of his biography where he's like, I was raised in Florida,

525
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: but culturally I was raised in Ohio and Pennsylvania It's like, dude,

526
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: just shut up, Like this is the most transparent, ridiculous,

527
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: like attempt to be like I'm a normal dude. Yeah,

528
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: anything else. That tough piece from Selena Zuto is really

529
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: in that regard. We can talk about that. Save all

530
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: of that for another day. Let's get to the second bar.

531
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: Maga Maga absolutely escalating its war against Ron DeSantis. It's

532
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: just full scale now at this point, with all of

533
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: their allies. Go and put Donald Trump Junior there up

534
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: on the screen. So here's what he said. Quote. Just

535
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: as radical Dems are indicting Trump and destroying the fabric

536
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: of our nation with their police state tactics, DeSantis pathetically

537
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: runs to the liberal media on orders from his rhino

538
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: establishment owners to attack my father. He is exposing himself

539
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: as one hundred percent controlled opposition. Let's go next to

540
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: Jason Miller, who currently works for the Trump campaign. He says,

541
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis has finally shown his true colors, an establishment,

542
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: never Trumper who despises the magabase and was faking it

543
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: the entire time. Similarly, also Mike Cernovici, we cited here

544
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: a couple times on the show, and again to note

545
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,239
Speaker 1: he is somebody who is pro Ron DeSantis does not

546
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: necessarily want to see Trump, but thinks that the way

547
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: Desantas is handling himself is not wise. Let's put his

548
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: up there, he says, I'm quote looking forward to the

549
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: big brains explaining to me that this is actually brilliant

550
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: timing for a full attack on Trump. So I think

551
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: if you put all of these together, what you really

552
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: have is kind of a horseshoe effect of people who

553
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: were maga and don't want Trump to be the nominee,

554
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: and we're pro DeSantis but think he's not doing well.

555
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: On top of what I have seen is a major

556
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: escalation of MAGA like forces online who are really willing

557
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: to take the gloves off against DeSantis. I've seen like

558
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: Gavin Wax, who is the I believe he works for

559
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: the New York Republican Club, Raheem cassam As. I've mentioned

560
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: war room people like Steve Bannon and others who are

561
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: one hundred percent with Trump to some extent, Like you

562
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily say that that wouldn't be the case, but

563
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: the fact that they're willing to do it so early

564
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: is I think a problem for DeSantis. Also in terms

565
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: of DeSantis's calendar. So from what I've asked and read around,

566
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: here's what I hear. I hear he's waiting for the

567
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: Florida legislature session to end so he can be like,

568
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: look at all of these things that I've done. I

569
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: think that's stupid for a number of reasons. As we've

570
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: already seen now in the polling that we just covered,

571
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: he's sinking like a rock whenever he's getting attacked too,

572
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: You're not actually gonna do anything in the Florida legislature.

573
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: That's all that like big of a deal. For example,

574
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: whenever he was asked by the reporters about his Trump

575
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: with Trump's attacks on him, he was at an event

576
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: banning central bank digital currency. Now listen, I actually think

577
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: that's important on a policy level. I also do not

578
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: think that a single voter is like, you know what,

579
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: we need to ban CBDC, Like I just don't go

580
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: to the diner where all those people said, right, it's

581
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: one of those where if you go to the diner

582
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: where all those Florida boomers said they were going to

583
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: vote for Trump and not DeSantis, when Fox News was

584
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: trying to get them to say that they would vote

585
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: for Ron DeSantis, like, ask them what a CBDC is.

586
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: They have no idea. And now again I'm not saying

587
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: it isn't important, but you can't say, look, I'm the

588
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: only governor who ran on CBBC. It was kind of

589
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: the same thing with the soros Da attack, the saurus it. Yeah, again,

590
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: he's correct on the policy. He did remove sorous Da,

591
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: but like, that's not what this was about. It was

592
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: about Trump. It's not about violent crime spiking in New York. Like,

593
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: sure we can talk about that if you do become

594
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: the nominee. That would be a great line of attack

595
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: about why you're a good governor. That's not what the

596
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: base wants to hear about right now. Yeah. So it's

597
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: one of those where I continue to see him almost

598
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: coming a bit too much to online vibes. And then

599
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: the biggest one, which actually broke last night Crystal, is

600
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: about him distancing himself from his previous comments on Ukraine.

601
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: So that came out and he said, actually Putin is

602
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: a war criminal. He said my territorial dispute line was

603
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: mischaracterized by Tucker Carlson. Tucker actually attacked him later that night,

604
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: making fun of anybody who gives into the war criminal line.

605
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: And then what he did say was he's like, well,

606
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: it was mischaracterized as a war criminal, and he cited

607
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: that John McCain gas station line. Now to be fair,

608
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: actually the gas station line is good. I thinkally a

609
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: gas station with a bunch of nuclears. I have used

610
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: that line before because I do think it is accurate.

611
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: That said if you were I'm not a Republican politician,

612
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 1: and if I want, I would never do that if

613
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: I was somebody who was running on some sort of

614
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: restraint position, simply because I know that where it would

615
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,239
Speaker 1: come from. He did himself no favors by borrowing the

616
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: line and started very much kind of Look what I've

617
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: always seen with him is he wants to have it

618
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: both ways. He wants to be maga in some cases,

619
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: and then he wants to be the guy who can

620
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 1: hobnob with Ken Griffin and all these other billionaire donors.

621
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: Apparently Reid Hoffman now wants to back his campaign, which

622
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: is nuts. One of the largest Democratic donors is opening

623
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: some financing spaces. Puck News Teddy over there. So look,

624
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: that's interesting. He's in a tough position, especially with Ukraine,

625
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: because that's what the donor class really probably hated him

626
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: the most for. And I don't think he's politically playing

627
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: this right, I really don't. The Ukraine thing is really

628
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: fascinating to me because it shows you that all of

629
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: the elite freakout over his original comments that got to him.

630
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 1: It definitely got to him. And because I think his

631
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: campaign number one, if you just look at the polling,

632
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: the one thing that's really consistent is Trump wins a

633
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: large majority of non college educated DeSantis is more popular

634
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: among college educated voters. Those would be the type that

635
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: even within the Republican coalition, would be more likely to

636
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: be pro Ukraine, pro Ukraine aid. And then also, you know,

637
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: he's got to look at okay, well where's my financing,

638
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: where's my funding coming from? And I do not doubt

639
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: that there were a number of donors who were upset

640
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: with the original tenor of the comments to Tucker Carlson.

641
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: So I think that's really very interesting and very telling.

642
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: I also think that the extreme pushback from a number

643
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: of figures both like you know, Mega Adjacent and actually

644
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: Maga over the incredibly tepid criticism that he lovies at

645
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: Trump is also really telling because again, Trump is going

646
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: in on this guy like dropping I mean all the

647
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: data he can about floors it's actually a terrible place.

648
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: And he's an average governor and he's it's all a mirage.

649
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: And by the way, he might be a gay grumer.

650
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, no holds barred from Trump. DeSantis says, these

651
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: like little tiny, passive aggressive won't even is named jabs,

652
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: and they're like, how dare you attack Donald Trump during

653
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: his hour of need? Right? And I mean they're able

654
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: to do that because I think the Republican base is

655
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: ultrasensitive to any criticism of Trump because they feel like

656
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: all of it is unfair and all of it is

657
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: coming from the liberal media. So it makes it very

658
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: difficult to lay a glove on Trump whatsoever, even if

659
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 1: in the most mild, tepid way. And meanwhile, it's just

660
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: again baked into the cake that you expect Trump to go,

661
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: like to another level that you can and even imagine

662
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: when it comes to his attacks on Ron DeSantis. So

663
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: it is not an even playing field in terms of

664
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 1: the critiques you're allowed to levy one against another. And

665
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, I've been trying to think about we've been

666
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: covering this as like DeSantis is making a bunch of mistakes,

667
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: and I do think that he's not playing his hand

668
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: in the best way possible. I also don't know that

669
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: there really is a winning hand here, because the bottom

670
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: line is that Trump still is the leader of this party,

671
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: and the majority of Republicans still really like Donald Trump.

672
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: And you know what, guys, he is maddening and I

673
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: got all kinds of issues with him. He is an

674
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: extraordinary politician when he's on his game, and you can

675
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: see it. I mean, he is on his game lately.

676
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know that there is a way that

677
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: you play this hand that you end up beating Trump

678
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: in this cycle. Now, listen, let me put the caveats

679
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: out there. It's early. There are all kinds of things

680
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: that could happen. The man is likely to be indeted

681
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: next week. He's likely to face other indictments down the road.

682
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: We don't know what's going to be revealed. We think

683
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: we know everything about these cases, we may not, and

684
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: so things can definitely change. It is a long road

685
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: to the nomination. I do want to put all of

686
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: that out there. But the way things stand today, I

687
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: think no matter what Ronda Santist did, I think it

688
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: is very, very difficult to unset Donald Trump from winning

689
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: the nomination. Definitely agree co sign everything he said. All right, guys,

690
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve had an absolutely momentous decision to make yesterday

691
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: about whether or not to raise rates and by how much.

692
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: This of course comes on the heels of the Silicon

693
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: Valley Bank and Signature Bank and really industry wide bank

694
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: bailout that occurred. So on the one hand, you know,

695
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: you had this series of bank failures and market fallout

696
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: because in part because of the actions that the Federal

697
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: Reserve had been taking in hiking interest rates. You also,

698
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: in the response to that situation, had the FED basically

699
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: going in the polar opposite direction of hiking rates in

700
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: order to save you know, wealthy depositors. They're like, okay,

701
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: well we got we got actually ease money to make

702
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: sure these people are okay. So there was a big

703
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: question mark about what the Fed would do, and they

704
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: made their decision yesterday. Let's put this up on the screen.

705
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: They decided to continue hiking interest rates, but rather than

706
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: going for you know, halfpoint or more like they have

707
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: in recent times. Gun put this tear sheet up on

708
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: the screen. CNBC they decided to hike rates by a

709
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: quarter percentage point, and there was this shift in language.

710
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: You know, people read into everything that your own pal

711
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: says very very closely, and I'll tell you more about

712
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: that in just a minute. But there was a change

713
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: in language too about how far they're going to go

714
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: in terms of hiking rates, and they indicated that increases

715
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: are coming to an end. So that is what we

716
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: found out yesterday. I mean, I'll just say it. I

717
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: think it's a mistake. I think given the fact that

718
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: number one, you know, you had this banking issue. Number two,

719
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: you went out of your way to ease monetary conditions

720
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: when it came to these specific depositors and the specific

721
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 1: group of banks. But you're continuing on the other side

722
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: to hike rates, which could cause more fallout not only

723
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: for banks but for ordinary people as well, at a

724
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: time when what you've been doing hasn't really worked all

725
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: that way to curb inflation. I think it would have

726
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: made a lot of sense to say, you know what,

727
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: we're going to wait and see what happens and what

728
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: conditions ultimately settle in Well, I think I also agree

729
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: with you that it was a mistake, but more so

730
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I think that it shows how ideological things are. Absolutely

731
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: that I think is actually the greatest danger where look,

732
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: this is almost like discount vulgarism. They're like, no matter

733
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: how much we have to do, we will raise, raise, raised,

734
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: until we see that unemployment rate go down and we

735
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: go up, sorry, go up, and as long as that

736
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: is the soul metric, like oh, bank collapses okay, uh,

737
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, sheer chaos and mortgage markets and home prices

738
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: and all that, okay, making it unable for businesses to

739
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: borrow or for people to obtain credit, not even cheap,

740
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: but like at a normal rate at like something that

741
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: would be considered fair market value, and the ability to

742
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: expand your capital. It's just they are making sure that

743
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: the damage that they're willing to reak is just one

744
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: of those where ideologically, until they see that rate go up,

745
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: they are just not going to hit pause on the brakes. Yeah.

746
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: I think it's a huge mistake. Yeah. No, I mean

747
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: that they have this like tough guy mentality of like

748
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: we got to show them that we're to stick to

749
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: our guns and we're going to keep going even though

750
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: things are already breaking. So there's another piece here, just

751
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: to highlight this what they call a quandary. Put this

752
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: next piece up on the screen. This was before the

753
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: FED announced their decision, but it highlights the conundrum that

754
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: they were facing. They say, banks are running scared. Is

755
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve about to make things worse? The quandary,

756
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: they say, highlights the multiple and conflicting issues facing the FED.

757
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: With key sectors of the economy growing strong, inflation still

758
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: more than double the fed's target rate of two percent,

759
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: central Bank is keenly aware that any sign it is

760
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: relenting in the battle against inflation could give rise to

761
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: another wave of price increases. At the same time, lifting

762
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: the federal funds rate could now magnify other lenders, the

763
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: same kind of problems that led panic depositors to yanked

764
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: their money out of Silicon Valley banks. So that was

765
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: the basic decision. Again, I think it was a mistake,

766
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: and just to reiterate what we've talked about here a lot,

767
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: because I think it's a really key point. Wage inflation,

768
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: which is basically the only thing that the FED can

769
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: really deal with here, is a minuscule part of overall

770
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: what has contributed to overall inflation. A large percentage has

771
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: been corporate price gouging, and another large percentage has been

772
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: continued supply chain issues, none of which the FED has

773
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: any control over whatsoever. So as they continue this like

774
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: death march of interest rate hikes, you know, consequences be damned.

775
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: Just keep in mind that the tool that they're using

776
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: here is actually very poorly suited to deal with the

777
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: real problem that does, of course, have huge negative impacts

778
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: on every working person in the entire country. Yeah. No,

779
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: I think that's the big takeaway is that, Look, we

780
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: just have a far less control than I think any

781
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: of us would want on how any of this is

782
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: actually run and on the major impact it can have

783
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: on our lives. Housing is the one that you know,

784
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: you just can't underestimate. Yeah, how big of a deal

785
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: it is. And I see it everywhere in terms of

786
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: you know, houses with thirty forty days of signs up there,

787
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: and I guess I think that's fine. But it's not

788
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: like the price is dropped to make it most affordable either,

789
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: that's it. And with the mortgage rates you know, six

790
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: seven percent, like good luck, you know to a lot

791
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: of people who are out there. Yeah. Absolutely, there is

792
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: some movement on the legislative front that we wanted to

793
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: bring you, which is kind of encouraging. Put this up

794
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: on the screen. It's a bipartisan bill between two very

795
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: unlikely bedfellows here, US Centator Rick Scott, who is a

796
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: real fiscal hawk and a Democrat of course, Elizabeth Warren.

797
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: They have unveiled a bipartisan Fed oversight bill. Now, I'm

798
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you, I genuinely don't know how

799
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: impactful this would actually be if it was passed. But

800
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: the fact that you have the two sides at least

801
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: finding some common ground and trying to work together, I

802
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: take as a good sign, and potentially this would have it.

803
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it wouldn't. I'm just saying I don't know.

804
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: So the details here are that the legislation would establish

805
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: a presidentially appointed, Senate confirmed Inspector General at the FED

806
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: like every other major government agency. That's according to a

807
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: joint release with Scott and with Warren. Warren said this

808
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: month's banking upheavals have underscored the urgent need for a

809
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: truly independent inspector General to hold FED officials accountable for

810
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: any lapses or wrongdoing. Now this comes as there are

811
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: a million questions about how the FED was so asleep

812
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: at the switch that they let this all unfold at

813
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Bank, where, by the way, the CEO of

814
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Bank was sitting on the San Francisco FED board,

815
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: which is not a great look in terms of the

816
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: optics of this situation. But there's reporting now that the

817
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: FED knew there were problems with SVB and that they

818
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: had huge interest rate exposure. Actually for years they've been

819
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: warning about this, but they didn't They would just like

820
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: send in a notice, but they didn't actually do anything

821
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: until this was a total crisis that required what is

822
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: effectively a revolutionary remake of the banking system that even

823
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: they are still trying to figure out what exactly means.

824
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: So we'll get to that in a moment. So the

825
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: idea here is, let's bring in an independent inspector General

826
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: who can watch over what the FED is doing here

827
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: so that we can hope to have more teeth in

828
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: terms of our regulatory bodies if we face a similar

829
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: situation in the future. Yeah, I think look with the

830
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: actual legislation, as you said, in terms of an inspector

831
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: General and all that. Still, though the checks that actual

832
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: Congress would ever be able to exert on an independent

833
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: FED and make it we're democratic. It just doesn't really exist,

834
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: given the fact that you renominate them on a very

835
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: limited basis for ten year terms. Then even the way

836
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: that the entire federal Reserve governors are run from the

837
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: system itself, it designed basically to not have any democratic input.

838
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: So there's not a lot you can do. I'm not

839
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: saying it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's only

840
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: like an inch in the right direction. Yeah, we'll leave

841
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: this discussion for another day, but I do want to

842
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: throw out there we take as this bedrock assumption that

843
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: the FED has to be totally independent of politics. That

844
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: has not been the case throughout all of history, and

845
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: there's a real debate to be had there. So we'll

846
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: save that one for another day. But this was also

847
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: really quite extraordinary and to the point about how even

848
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: the people who crafted this bailout don't exactly know what

849
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: it means. You had FED shared Jerome pal and Churgery

850
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: Secretary Janet Yellen giving what appeared to be sort of

851
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: conflicting statements about what exactly is going to happen with

852
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: depositors because You'll remember a key part of this bailout

853
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: was that the Signature and Silicon Valley Bank depositors were

854
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: going to be ensured. The entirety of their deposits were

855
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: going to be backstopped, regardless of how much it's over

856
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: that two hundred and fifty thousand dollars limit. So Jeff

857
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: Stine at the washing Post right away picked up on, Okay, well,

858
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: does this mean that basically you are backstopping all depositors

859
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: in all institutions across the country. And Yellen really hedged,

860
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: But that was kind of the working assumption. Will continues

861
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: to be a real question of what exactly they mean

862
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: and if they intend to change the deposit insurance system

863
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: or if they really are just you know, backstopping the

864
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: depositors at the institutions of their choosing. So let's put

865
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. This next piece you had

866
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: Jerome pal on Wednesday. This is a different part. Sorry.

867
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: There's also a legislative push to ensure big deposits that

868
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: they're contemplating on Capitol Hill that has to do with

869
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: this two hundred fifty thousand dollars limit. So there is

870
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: some effort at changing this from a legislative perspective. I'm

871
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: not sure how much ground it is gained. So this

872
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: is from Bloomberg. You can see that they their headline

873
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: here says differing Pal and Yellen messages were a lot

874
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: for the stock market to digest. One analyst said it

875
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: was astounding how they were giving contradictory comments seemingly at

876
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: the same time, and all of this is sort of like,

877
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: you know, they keep it vague, so to say it

878
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: was directly contradictory is not exactly accurate. But clearly the

879
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: market read these comments as being contradictory. Let me tell

880
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: you what they said. Here. You had Jerome Pal telling

881
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: reporters about these deposits. You've seen that we have the

882
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: tools to protect depositors when there's a threat of serious

883
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: harm to the economy or the financial system, and we're

884
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: prepared to use those tools. And I think depositors should

885
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: assume that their deposits are safe. So that's Jerome Pal.

886
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: Depositors should assume their deposits are safe. So that sounds

887
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: like all right, I guess they are just basically backstopping

888
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: the entire deposit system. At the same time, you had

889
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: Janet Yellen on Capitol Hill talking to senators and saying

890
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: that blanket deposit insurance is quote, not something we have

891
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: looked at or are considering in any way. So seems

892
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: to be that they're not exactly on the same page here,

893
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: or at least not you know, totally putting out a

894
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: similar message and put this chart that we have on

895
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: the which shows you that the markets were reacting in

896
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: real time to these comments. So you've got at the

897
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: peak there. That's when Pale is saying basically like, yeah,

898
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: well probably you know, we've got the tools, we know

899
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: how to use them. You read into that what you will,

900
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: but I think your deposits are safe. And then you

901
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: see the dip when Yellen says, now we're not actually

902
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: even considering doing anything with regard to deposit insurance. Now.

903
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: The reality is, in terms of an actual policy change,

904
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: you would require legislative action of the type that you

905
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: know they're starting to consider. But they really got to

906
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: figure out what they're messaging is on all of this.

907
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: Because the fact that you have these two incredibly powerful officials,

908
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: even they don't seem to really know what this bailout

909
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: means and what they're prepared to do. It's pretty extraordinary. Yeah, No,

910
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean the disconcerting nature of it is just the

911
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: fact that they're both in public giving completely contradictory answers

912
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: when they're actually both supposed to coordinate, and again the

913
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: entire point of their powers that they're like, these are

914
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: the big boys in the room, the adults. They're supposed

915
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: to be the hands on the global economy making sure

916
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: that things are all working. Instead, they literally prompted market

917
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: sell off, right, And then well it's like, well which

918
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: one what are we supposed to do? Is the bank

919
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: safe or not? And it's like such a basic question.

920
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: It also kicks back to our previous discussion about why

921
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: it's important for Congress to get involved here. Yeah, Congress

922
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: is the one they're supposed to send the messages correct

923
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: around how the banking system will be ensured, what the

924
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: actual dollar figure is, if it's stabilizing, into what extent

925
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: regulators will have an input. It should be set from

926
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: the democratic process, not from the holy heads of Janet

927
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: Yellen and your own power. Again illustrating the problems with

928
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: the system. Yeah, I mean, you really get a sense

929
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: these people are just like up there freelancing and haven't

930
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: really even they haven't really wrapped their heads around what

931
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: this means, what they're willing to do, and where it's

932
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: all going. So yeah, there is no There is no

933
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: substitute for having a legislative body that actually passes bills

934
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,479
Speaker 1: and regulates the banking system. There is just no other

935
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: answer than that one. Yeah, there you go. All right,

936
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: let's move on to the next one. Here important meeting

937
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: pressions Shishing Ping and Vladimir Putin in Moscow, where they

938
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 1: made not necessarily policy inroads, but have pledged to themselves

939
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: a new world order. There was one clip in particular.

940
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put it up there on the

941
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: screen and I'll read some of the subtitles where Putin

942
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: is speaking and says, already two thirds of the trade

943
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: turnover between our countries is carried out in rubles and

944
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: Chinese yuan, so we are for the use of Chinese

945
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: yuan in settlements between Russia and the countries of Asia,

946
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: Africa and Latin America. One of the reasons why that's

947
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: so important is he says that already with the two

948
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: thirds of tradeover between the two it's talking about replacing

949
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: the dollar as the de facto the de facto currency

950
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: for a trade actions, which is one of the things

951
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: that undergirds really the entire global financial system. Russian sanctions,

952
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: of course, have made that nearly impossible. They've been trying

953
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: to price some of these deals in different currencies. His

954
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: acceptance of Chinese wand in that matter is both one

955
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: where he's kind of adopting a more Chinese global financial system,

956
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: but also his acquiescence. So again further of the two

957
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: things coming together. Let's put the next one up there

958
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: on the screen. Associated press writing from Moscow, Putin welcomes China.

959
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: She to the Kremlin amid Ukraine fighting. There was some

960
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: outrageous ceremonies in these great halls with they're honestly fun

961
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,479
Speaker 1: to watch, like whatever you watch dictators going to greet

962
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: each other, with the giant hauls and the music and

963
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: the pomp and the circumstances. It is all a little

964
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: bit ridiculous, but it's not like the consequences are not immense.

965
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: Putin really just laid the red carpet out for she.

966
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: China has made colossal leaps a development, he says. It

967
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: is causing genuine interest all around the world, and we

968
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: feel a little bit envious. He said, as smiled, he said,

969
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: we will discuss all these issues, including your initiatives that

970
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: we highly respect. Our cooperation of the international arena undoubtedly

971
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: helps strengthen the basic principles of the global order and multipolarity.

972
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 1: So the major takeaway from the two meetings is that

973
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: they are pushing and in some ways is correct the

974
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: idea of a shift to a multipolar global system, to

975
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: trying to remove any US power in the region, especially

976
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: in terms of finance. And then Ukraine is like almost

977
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: a secondary part of that because multipolarity then means that

978
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a US, NATO, Western led order.

979
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: For the way that we think about border states and

980
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: transactions to see etc. Is put aside. Then that opens

981
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: the door for why it would be okay for someone

982
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: like Russia to invade Ukraine, and why it would be

983
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: okay for China to invade Taiwan. I think though, when

984
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: you put those things together, our insistence on and this

985
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: is borrowing from doctor Tree to Parsi, of not playing

986
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: the peacemaker, not even playing the peacemaker, but not showing

987
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: any inroads to peace, not seeing as a fair broker

988
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: or arbiter in the global financial system, representing the interests

989
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: of the Indians, of the Global South, of the Vietnamese,

990
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: of Brazil and all those other countries re see the

991
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: conflict very differently and instead being completely wedded to the

992
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: NATO centric euroview of the world declining and cultural relevance declining,

993
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: especially in GDP, and also declining in terms of its

994
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: share of global public opinion. That is where has left

995
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: the Chinese opening for it to come in and have

996
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: this role. So I think it's a disaster, as I've

997
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: said before, largely because it was the greatest fear of

998
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: the Nixon administration, of the teaming up between the great

999
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: power of the Soviet Union and then the secondary power

1000
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: of China. Now that has flipped as evidence of why

1001
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: Putin is literally willing to accept payments in Chinese want

1002
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: that said, I mean, it still doesn't make the fear

1003
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: of what that type of system looks like in terms

1004
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: of any ability to play peace maker or even to

1005
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: exert influence go down. So Trita Parsy made this point

1006
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: in New York Times op ed, let's go and put

1007
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen after he was here

1008
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: on the show. I thought he did an excellent job here,

1009
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: And there's a good quote which was pulled out. The

1010
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: greatest threat to our own security and reputation is if

1011
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: we stand in the way of a world where others

1012
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: have a stake in peace. I think he is exactly

1013
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: right here. I would also note that Chinahawks like Albert

1014
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: Kolby and others have also come out and talked about

1015
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: the danger of this, largely using the same rhetoric. So

1016
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those places where people

1017
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: who are on the right and left and who are

1018
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: skeptical of this, like us total wedded view to NATO,

1019
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 1: to Europe and to the being basically a co combatant

1020
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: in the Ukraine conflict, are both seeing this as a

1021
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: disaster for whichever respective foreign policy you want. If you

1022
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: want a progressive like less intervention as FORIGN policy is

1023
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: a disaster. And if you want to try and if

1024
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: you believe that Asia is the global rising, where the

1025
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: GDP will be, where the center of power will be,

1026
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: this is also a disaster because it gives them even

1027
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: more power in the Rea and also lets the two

1028
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: team up for the quote new world order which they're

1029
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: so desperate for. Christ Yeah, well, in which in some

1030
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: ways has already arrived. I mean, you know that's there

1031
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: to the extent that you can stop it. I'm saying, like,

1032
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: that's what people are Look, let's all be real here,

1033
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: like it is the global power, or it is the

1034
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: power in the Asia Pacific, and all US policy is

1035
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: geared towards making sure that you try and quote contain

1036
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: that for US interests, specifically US allies like South Korea, Japan,

1037
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: and Vietnam. I think that one indicator that we are

1038
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,479
Speaker 1: already shifting to that multipolar world is the fact that, yes,

1039
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: we did a great job of like getting Europe on

1040
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: our side with regards to Ukraine. Rest of the world.

1041
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: Global South was like, hey, we're just gonna we're gonna

1042
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: stay out of this, and we don't see this the

1043
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: way that y'all see this, and have really gone out

1044
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: of their way to maintain a sort of non alignment

1045
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: with regards to this conflict and see the conflict in

1046
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: totally different terms than the way that it is framed here.

1047
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: We got a taste of that when the new Brazilian president,

1048
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: new and former Brazilian president Lula was in town and

1049
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: laid out the way that he viewed this and he

1050
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: actively said I want to stay neutral so that I

1051
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: could potentially play a role as a peacemaker and be

1052
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: part of the diplomatic process here. I think the real

1053
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: shot across the boll with regard to China in this

1054
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: was obviously the deal that they were able to strike

1055
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: between Saudi in Iran. That was extraordinary. So yeah, there

1056
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: was not a lot to read going back to the

1057
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: specifics of this meeting in terms of the tea leaves

1058
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: of how they're thinking about the Ukrainian crisis and what

1059
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: role they may play there. There still continues to be

1060
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: reporting that she is expected to speak with Selenski. They

1061
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: put out that previous peace plan, but there was not

1062
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot that was said about Ukraine publicly in terms

1063
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: of this meeting. There were a couple things I wanted

1064
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: to highlight from the report that we put up earlier.

1065
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: One thing, the Foreign Ministry spokesperson for China told reporters

1066
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: that China will quote uphold its objective and fair position

1067
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: on the Ukrainian crisis and play a constructive role in

1068
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: promoting peace talks, whatever that means, just to give you

1069
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: their line. But the other thing that I thought was

1070
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: really interesting is there have been all these reports in

1071
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: the US press that our intelligence officials believe China is

1072
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: contemplating sending lethal aid to Russia in support of their

1073
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine. There was this line in this season.

1074
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: I've noted this in a couple places now that I

1075
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 1: think is really important to highlight for you. They say, quote,

1076
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: US officials have picked up indications China is considering supplying

1077
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: Russia with weapons for its fight in Ukraine, but have

1078
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: seen no evidence they've actually done so. So I just

1079
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: want to put a little pin in that that I

1080
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily take their word for it that they're totally

1081
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: convinced that China is going to send these weapons. I think,

1082
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: you know, they're very interested in saying, Okay, China is

1083
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: on side of the bad guys here and so and

1084
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 1: there are opponent but the evidence that they're actually planning

1085
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: to send the weapons seems to be a little bit

1086
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: loosey goosey, in my opinion. I agree with you. I also, though,

1087
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: would dispute though that we've quote got in Europe on

1088
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: our side. That may be rhetorically, but actually the NATO

1089
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: Secretary General just revealed yesterday only nine of the countries

1090
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: or nine of the some thirty or whatever countries they're

1091
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: inside of NATO even meet the two percent GDP alliance

1092
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: or two percent GDP spending. Germany has pledged it, however,

1093
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: they have still not gotten there. France is also pledging it.

1094
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: They have not gotten there. Britain is the only one

1095
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: that's there. In terms of their match of our at Ukraine,

1096
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: it is currently still at the one fifteenth level. If

1097
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: you look at the total EU, it is still less

1098
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: than the United States. The only countries which do meet

1099
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: the percent GDP target are countries like Estonia, which is

1100
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: the size of like Rhode Island. So you know, I

1101
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: love that too. When everyone's like, what are you talking about?

1102
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: Estonia and the Latvian countries are standing up, I'm like,

1103
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: they are literally smaller than neighborhoods in the United States.

1104
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: Like I'm sorry. In absolute terms, that means nothing. And

1105
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: whenever you look at the way the Europeans continue, in

1106
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: my opinion, to take us for a ride in NATO,

1107
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: it's like we are basically riding not only Ukraine, but

1108
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: all of them a blank check. Remember when the Germans

1109
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't send those Leopard tanks unless we sent our weapons

1110
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: systems specifically, because they're like, no, we need to be

1111
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: protected by the US nuclear umbrella. There you go, That's

1112
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: what it's all about. And guess what even the Ukrainians

1113
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: are like. They're not sending us all the aid that

1114
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: they promised while we are expediting our patriot missile systems

1115
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: to them. So it continues to be totally one hundred

1116
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 1: percent US led and the State Department coming out and

1117
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: trashing the Chinese plan is not representative of global public

1118
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: opinion and that is going to be a blow to

1119
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: the US should it try and make inroads, specifically diplomatic

1120
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: ones all throughout the Asia Pacific. We've talked about this before.

1121
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: I talked about it with Treata Parsi. I can guarantee

1122
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: you in New Delhi they are pissed at the way

1123
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: that they have been treated on Ukraine. This is the

1124
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: world's largest democracy outside of China, one of the most

1125
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: populous nations in the world. GDP exploding, and if you

1126
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: have any hopes of maintaining power in the Asia Pacific,

1127
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: you of course the India to be one of your

1128
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: closest allies. I'm not just saying this because I'm Indian,

1129
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: saying like I can read how these people are, how

1130
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: these people are behaving. Not only that the Japanese and

1131
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: the South Koreans. South Korea actually, especially Japan's Prime Minister

1132
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: kind of been wishy washing on Ukraine, but the US

1133
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: has been forcing him. He was just in Ukraine also

1134
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: as kind of a show that while Putin has hosting X,

1135
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: the Japanese PM is in Ukraine, but South Korea has

1136
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: been You can go and read this. They have been

1137
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: backfilling all the defense capabilities that the US has stopped paying,

1138
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: largely because of Russian sanctions. They've also long been buying

1139
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: Iranian oil. In other words, they're in it for themselves.

1140
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: And you know, why shouldn't any nation be that. Vietnam

1141
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: as well Taiwan if you care about Taiwan. Taiwan behind

1142
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: the scenes is pissed about many of the weapons that

1143
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: are going to Ukraine. A lot of their weapons buys

1144
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: have been cannibalized in terms of what can be sent

1145
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. So there's a lot of reason for people

1146
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: in Asia to be skeptical of the US ability to

1147
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: quote walk and chew gum at the same time, mostly

1148
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: because we've literally haven't done that since World War Two.

1149
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: So there's anyway I think you can look at this

1150
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: in two different lenses. I would say it's a disaster, really,

1151
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: and either one that you want. Even if you are

1152
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: one of these neoliberals who wants to support Ukraine and

1153
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: all this like, you have to admit that the nightmare

1154
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: of the uniting of two nuclear powers being in total

1155
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: lockstep and forging larger diplomatic relations in the interest of

1156
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: conquest is not good for global peace. So at a

1157
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: very basic level you would want to try and prevent this. Unfortunately,

1158
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: Washington has decided that Kiev is more important than any

1159
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: of this, and who knows, you know. I hope that

1160
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: we don't pay the price, but unfortunately we probably will.

1161
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: I thought Doctor Parsi summed up the dynamic well. In

1162
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,959
Speaker 1: sort of like the conclusion of his piece, he says,

1163
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: in tomorrow's world, we should not worry if some roads

1164
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: to peace go through Beijing, New Delhi or Brasilia, so

1165
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: long as all roads to war do not go through Washington,

1166
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: which gets at this point. When we make ourselves effectively

1167
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: co combatants in a conflict, then of course it's going

1168
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: to make it very difficult to serve as an honest

1169
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: broker in terms of fostering any sort of diplomacy and

1170
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: trying to achieve any kind of peace. And that's why

1171
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, China is better positioned here

1172
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: to actually do something with regards to this conflict. Yeah,

1173
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: of course they are. I've always thought that the Indians

1174
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: were too, and the resilience because they're looking at this

1175
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: like they have interest with both countries and both sides

1176
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: and could play some sort of broker if anything. Really,

1177
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: what the US should do is be calling New Delhi

1178
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: and being like, listen, we need you to do it.

1179
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: We need We don't want you to do it because

1180
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: if you don't step up, if Lula doesn't step up.

1181
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: But instead, whenever it're on the phone to New Delhi,

1182
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: they're like, maybe, can you please stop buying Russian oil?

1183
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: And they're like, no, we're not going to start. Why

1184
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: don't we just move on past that? Why don't we

1185
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: get to the next place. But we're not interested in peace,

1186
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: And as long as that is the starting conversation with

1187
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: our Asian Pacific allies, they're going to continue to laugh

1188
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: at us, laugh all the way to the bank with

1189
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: their Russian oil and then also consider us unworthy and

1190
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: untrustworthy allies and honestly, can you blame them? Yeah, you

1191
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 1: really can. All right, let's go into the next block,

1192
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: because I think this story is absolutely extraordinary and reveals

1193
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: how much personal relationships corrupt important journalism. Put this tear

1194
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: sheet up on the screen from NPR. This is quite

1195
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: a report. So their headline is the FBI rated a

1196
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: notable journalist home. Rolling Stone did not tell readers why,

1197
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: and as I set up at the beginning of the show,

1198
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: we should actually covered this when it happened, because it

1199
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: was a crazy story. Rolling Stone got the scoop that

1200
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: this very well known national security reporter had the FBI

1201
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: raid his apartment building, and in the piece they really

1202
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: led you to believe that the reason probably had to

1203
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: do with his work so catered out he may have

1204
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: had some classified documents on some of his devices. Obviously

1205
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: that's a huge deal because you're talking about, Okay, the

1206
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: Biden administration is rolling up on this important journalist, like

1207
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: what is going on here, Sager behind the scenes. His

1208
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: spidy senses immediately went up just because of the way

1209
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: this all went down, and also because some of the details,

1210
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: like for example, his employer ABC News didn't defend him. Okay,

1211
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: that was the real red flag. His publisher immediately drops

1212
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: his book deal. And because of the show of force here,

1213
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: we didn't say it publicly because you don't want to

1214
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: just casually accuse someone having kiddy porn. But you were like, mmm,

1215
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 1: this kind of sounds like we may have. Yeah, it

1216
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: was that it was ABC not defending him. But also

1217
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: whenever they're like they seized a lot of his servers.

1218
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: I unfortunately, as I've said before, used to cover a

1219
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: lot of DOJ prosecutions, so I've read a lot of indictments.

1220
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: I know what the raids look like whenever they go in,

1221
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: like against a terrorist. And unfortunately, I've also had to

1222
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: cover some cases where the FBI will storm in and

1223
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: take somebody's servers because they suspect them of being involved

1224
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: in the distribution of child pornography. And this looked like

1225
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: an open and shut child porn case like them all.

1226
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: As I was reading the deal again, I cannot save

1227
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: that up on the air. Yeah, because we're not like

1228
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: child We're not going to flow some groom around me

1229
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: anything about it. I was like, yeah, it really does

1230
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: look like child porn, but you know, you never know. Yeah,

1231
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: lo and behold, it was child porn. So there you go.

1232
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: So the reporter on the story, a woman named Tatiana Siegel,

1233
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: who now has left Rolling Stone. It looks like because

1234
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: of this whole situation, she actually had the story. She

1235
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: had a source that said it looks like there was

1236
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: a child sexual material that they were going after. She

1237
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: had lines in the piece to indicate that, and there

1238
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 1: was immediately a tension between her and Rolling Stone editor

1239
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: and chief Noah Shackman, by the way, she says, and

1240
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: I think colleagues around her said that normally he wouldn't

1241
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: get involved in editing her pieces to this level, but

1242
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: he right away is involved. Then she had a family

1243
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: emergency that pulled her off right before the piece is

1244
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: set to publish. That sort of pulled her off of it,

1245
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: and he's like, don't worry, I got it. He stripped

1246
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: down any of the language indicating that this was anything

1247
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: other than having to do with his work. James Gordon Meek,

1248
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: by the way, is the name of the reporter, his

1249
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: work as a national security reporter, and again really splants

1250
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,479
Speaker 1: the piece towards making you think like, oh, it's because

1251
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: he's got classified documents or something like that. Well, lo

1252
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: and behold Shackman has multiple connections to this guy, a

1253
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: sort of personal professional relationship, you know, very like clubby

1254
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: kind of a situation. There. Also, Shackman's lawyer had called

1255
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: him directly, and this was another personal friend of Sorry

1256
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: James Gordon Meek's lawyer called Shackman. This was another personal

1257
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: friend and personal connection here. And so it sure looks

1258
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: like they sandbagged this piece and pulled out the most

1259
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: critical part of the reporting in order to cover for

1260
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: this dude. And another outlet ultimately started really reporting this

1261
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: out and ended up getting the scope, so they lost

1262
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: really the story and they did some subsequent reporting, But

1263
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: just quite extraordinary to see the way that they apparently

1264
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: covered for this guy, especially given what he is accused

1265
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: of because of personal and professional relationships. Yeah, I mean

1266
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: you're telling me Rolling Stone magazine would publish it a

1267
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: factual era I would never have look. As I said

1268
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: at the time, I was like, it's certainly extraordinary. The

1269
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: guy's done some important work. It would be in violation

1270
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: of a twenty twenty one Justice Department rule that says

1271
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: that you're not supposed to raid and seize the materials

1272
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: of journalists. I was like, it has to be clearly.

1273
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, look, on the one hand, it was like

1274
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: it could have been something that genuinely was a violation

1275
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: national security related. On the other again, looking at the case,

1276
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: I was like, it does look a lot like how

1277
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: the FBI acts whenever they do a childborn raid. But

1278
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: the fact that they didn't put that in there, even

1279
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: though they had a direct source, and and if you

1280
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: look at all the details, Crystal, he didn't put a

1281
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: photo of the guy, right, he was like, no, let's

1282
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: put a photo of the FBI and not of the

1283
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: photo of the reporter. He's basically covering him for him

1284
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: from day one, and then it comes out later on

1285
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: that it was child porn related the entire time. Yeah,

1286
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: it's like, you can't do that. You're basically stoking conspiracy

1287
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: like conspiracy connections, maybe even rightfully, right if you don't

1288
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: know the details. And they never intimated that they had

1289
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: any idea what the connection was. When they actually did so,

1290
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: it was a huge disservice not only to their readers

1291
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: but to everybody, and rightfully, I think exploited people's fears

1292
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,919
Speaker 1: about press freedom who were on alert, people like us,

1293
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: when if you know, if we had known or if

1294
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: others had known, it would have been a totally different story. Absolutely,

1295
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: And just to give you some of the horrifying details

1296
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: of the type of individual that he was covering for.

1297
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: On February first, the Justice Department unveiled criminal charges against

1298
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: Mek related to images of child sexual abuse, among other accusations.

1299
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: Authorities say Meek shared a video showing the rape of

1300
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: an infant. That's who you're covering for. He and I

1301
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: is wrongdoing, not guilty, et cetera. He's sitting in federal

1302
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: potastudy right now, a waiting trial. That's who you covered for. Disgusting.

1303
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: I don't even have words for that one. Yeah. Look

1304
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: And also another thing I know from covering a lot

1305
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: of those cases, they only raide your house if not

1306
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: only do you have a lot of that material, but

1307
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: you're one of those people, one of those sick freaks

1308
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: who like sells it on the dark web, like they

1309
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: only really their strategy, I think correct, is they go

1310
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: after people who have some of the most heinous material,

1311
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: people also who are distributors. A lot of these freaks

1312
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: they like traded amongst each other and they like sell it,

1313
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, and they get connected with brokers and stuff

1314
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: in Eastern Europe and also it's repulsive sick system and anyway,

1315
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: those are the top targets for the FBI, So that

1316
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: was another reason why looking at it, I was like, man,

1317
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: they really only raid your house and they make you

1318
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: a top priority if they identify you as like high

1319
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: up in the distribution ring of material like this, So

1320
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: whatever app look allegedly all of that, although if convicted,

1321
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: he'll rotten jail for the rest of his life, rightfully,

1322
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: so in data All right, sorry, what are you looking

1323
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: at it? Well? One of the most important First Amendment

1324
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: cases in the country is one that you may not

1325
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: have ever heard of. It's the case of Douglas Mackie.

1326
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: He's a former right wing Twitter user charged by the

1327
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: Biden DOJ just merely days after assuming office in twenty

1328
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: twenty one. That is going to trial as we speak.

1329
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: The details of the case are staggering in their importance

1330
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: to setting a precedent on limits of online speech, how

1331
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: to interpret satire, and if convicted, will make speaking online

1332
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: a much more dangerous endeavor. Let's review. Mackie was charged

1333
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: exactly one week into the Biden presidency. The Biden DOJ

1334
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: alleges to Macki, through his Twitter account of fifty eight

1335
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: thousand followers, conspired with to disseminate fraudulent messages designed to

1336
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: encourage supporters of Hillary Clinton to vote via text or

1337
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: social media. The one tweet that the government seems fixated

1338
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: on is a November one, twenty sixteen, tweet, in which

1339
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: Mackie tweeted an image directed at black voters with instructions

1340
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: on how to allegedly vote for Hillary by text. The

1341
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: government alleges that some forty nine hundred people eventually call

1342
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: the phone number, and thus are charging Mackie with depriving

1343
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 1: individuals of their right to vote. But what is Mackie's

1344
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: side of the story. Basically, it amounts to being a

1345
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: young male on the internet. Mackie was a Middlebury College

1346
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: trained economist who was bored at his job. He had

1347
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: an anonymous Twitter account which he spent way too much

1348
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: time on, and the trial reveals he was basically obsessed

1349
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: with going viral. Key to the case, though, is his messages.

1350
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: He consistently described the images that he was spreading his means,

1351
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 1: and that he and other friends laughed at tricking quote

1352
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 1: dopey liberals. Mackie's defense has maintained from the beginning, it

1353
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: is quote highly unlikely that memes actually fooled any voters,

1354
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: and that even if they did, any harm is quote

1355
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: far outweighed by the chilling of the marketplace of ideas,

1356
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 1: where consumers can assess the value of political expression as provocation, satire, commentary,

1357
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: or otherwise. Obviously, to me, Mackie's defense is correct. Shit

1358
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 1: postings should not be illegal. By this definition. The TikTok

1359
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: trolls who signed up hundreds of thousands of people to

1360
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 1: attend a Trump rally in Oklahoma in the middle of

1361
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty should also be guilty of election interference. Obviously,

1362
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: that would be insane. As long as we have pseudonymity

1363
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: on the Internet, we will have pranks that, yes, sometimes

1364
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: have real world consequences. But having the full force of

1365
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: the federal government go after you for it, especially in

1366
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: this case years later in defense of Hillary, is chilling

1367
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: to free speech. Unfortunately, the judge did not agree. He

1368
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: allowed the case to proceed, and the judge wrote that

1369
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: Mackie's indictment does not violate the First Amendment because although

1370
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: the case does involve false utterances, it also is at

1371
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: its core about conspiracy and injury, not about speech. Thus,

1372
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: the judge effectively disregarded the first amendment of jehos into prosecution,

1373
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: allowing it to go forward in a jury trial. The

1374
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: trial itself actually began yesterday, and given that it's being

1375
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: held in Manhattan, good luck to any Trump supporting guy

1376
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: with a jury there. But that is part of the problem.

1377
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: Who he supports and who he was tweeting about really

1378
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: should not matter at all. At the end of the day, people,

1379
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: we are talking about a freaking Twitter account with fifty

1380
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: eight thousand followers that may and again may, because there

1381
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 1: is no way to prove how many people took this seriously,

1382
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,839
Speaker 1: may have confused five thousand people. Furthermore, beyond speech protection,

1383
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: if you are so stupid to believe that US law

1384
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: miraculously changed and you think you can vote by texts,

1385
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:41,679
Speaker 1: would you really have dragged yourself to a voting booth

1386
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: on the day in first place, Or maybe they knew

1387
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,879
Speaker 1: it was a joke and texted obscenities to that number. Literally,

1388
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: there is no way to know the actual harm here

1389
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 1: at most is five thousand people. Frankly, is nothing amongst

1390
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: the one hundred and thirty nine billion people who voted

1391
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and the consequences of conviction are immense,

1392
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: but actually even greater in their impact than one hundred

1393
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,759
Speaker 1: and thirty nine people, because thirty nine million people, because

1394
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: it would affect almost anyone who uses the internet. People

1395
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: say stuff on the Internet they don't mean all the time.

1396
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: If the government wins this case, it will pay the

1397
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: way for direct government standards of quote election disinformation, which

1398
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 1: not only they can take down, but they can throw

1399
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: you in federal prison for this means everything, including jokes

1400
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: which may may again discourage voting, can get you indicted.

1401
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: People joke and say, seriously all the time, it's not

1402
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: even worth voting because the same thing happens all the

1403
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: time with that qualify. And if you think I'm being hyperbolic,

1404
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:39,799
Speaker 1: think of the Twitter files and what Matt Tyee discovered.

1405
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: FBI agents whose salaries we are paying, we're spending their

1406
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: time flagging moronic and tiny Twitter accounts joking, including one

1407
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: who said I am a ballot counter in my state.

1408
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: If you're not wearing a mask, I'm not counting your vote,

1409
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: saying that every negative comment on the post you would

1410
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 1: add another vote for the Democratic Party. Another example is

1411
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: a low follower user who tweeted out quote I want

1412
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: to remind Republicans to vote tomorrow, then included the wrong date. Again.

1413
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: This was flagged by FBI agents who wanted Twitter to

1414
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: take it down. It had three retweets. Under the standard

1415
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: though of potential market conviction, they could claim anyone who

1416
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: saw that tweet and misinterpreted it could have had their

1417
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,560
Speaker 1: civil rights violated. That too, is what angers me. This

1418
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 1: whole proceeding is making a mockery of civil rights law.

1419
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 1: The law was written into place to stop literal KKK

1420
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: terrorists from standing in the door of the courthouse and

1421
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: to dismantle Jim Crow not to go after shit posting

1422
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 1: economists board at work who are posting memes. The long

1423
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: arm of the federal government is disregarding humor to directly

1424
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: target those who dared to go after the anointed Hillary Clinton. Worse,

1425
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 1: it perpetuates something that Democrats cannot accept. Hillary loss, fair

1426
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: and square, guys, she just sucked. Get over it. It

1427
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: wasn't Doug Douglas Mackie's fault, and it wasn't Russia's. It

1428
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: was a cold blood that ran through her veins and

1429
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 1: the reek of corruption which people all over this country

1430
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: can smell that's what did her in. Nothing else, especially

1431
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: not means I mean, can you even believe this case? No?

1432
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue,

1433
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com, Bristol,

1434
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: what are you taking a look at? Well, guys. President

1435
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 1: Biden issue the first veto of his presidency this week,

1436
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: blocking legislation that would have blocked the ability of retirement

1437
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: funds to consider so called ESG in their investment decision.

1438
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: So ESG, if you don't know, stands for environmental, social

1439
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: and governance. It has become a real focus of the

1440
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 1: right as more investment funds and companies pledged to consider

1441
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 1: these factors in their decision making. It's part of a

1442
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: new push for what's called stakeholder capitalism over the post

1443
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies focus on shareholder capitalism. So shareholder capitalism was

1444
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: actually a radical notion when it was introduced. It's the

1445
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: philosophy that public corporations should be run solely for the

1446
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: benefit of shareholder return. In theory, stakeholder capitalism is meant

1447
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,879
Speaker 1: to return to older traditions of public corporations which considered

1448
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: a wide range of interest from different stakeholders, not only

1449
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: investor return. So if done well, I think that could

1450
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: be an improvement from the short term profit driven status quo.

1451
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 1: But it completely fails an execution. These efforts have amounted

1452
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: to little more than corporate virtue signaling, identity posturing, and greenwashing.

1453
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: They're an attempt to convince legislators and the public they

1454
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: don't need more regulation, they don't need higher taxes, they

1455
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: don't really need for the government to govern at all.

1456
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: Corporate American partnership with Wall Street, we got this, guys.

1457
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: We believe in good things too, So just let us

1458
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,640
Speaker 1: handle the details of how to make the world a

1459
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 1: better place here. But for a lot of conservatives, ESG

1460
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: isn't just another capitalist virtue signal. It's an actual attempt

1461
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: to remake the world through diversity initiatives and green investments. Now,

1462
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: in order to stealman this worldview, I want to play

1463
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: a bit a presdential contender Vivek Ramaswami's recent interview with

1464
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. Now, vivec really became a fixture in conservative

1465
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: media through his critique of ESG. He's been a true

1466
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: thought leader in this space, and he's done more than

1467
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 1: just critique. He also started Strive Fund. It's made large

1468
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: investments in large public companies with the intent of pushing

1469
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 1: them off of any ESG goals and back to the

1470
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: profit maximizing shareholder value. Here's how Vivek describes the birth

1471
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 1: of ESG. Take a listen. What this whole game is

1472
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: about is using private power, using capital markets to accomplish

1473
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: through the back door what government could not get done

1474
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: through the front door under the constitution. So the essence

1475
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: of the ESG movement is what it does is it

1476
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: uses the money of everyday citizens Americans, but Canadians too,

1477
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: Australians and Western Europeans. It uses the money of everyday

1478
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: citizens to invest in companies and to vote their shares

1479
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: in ways that advance one sided progressive agendas, environmental and

1480
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 1: social agendas that most of those people do not agree with,

1481
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 1: that most of those people did not know were actually

1482
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 1: being advanced with their own money, and which don't advance

1483
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: the financial best interests of most people whose money's actually used.

1484
01:15:58,080 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: So what does that mean to think about yourself saving

1485
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: and a tirement account or a four toh one K

1486
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: account or a brokerage account. You think that the person

1487
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: who's managing that money is exclusively looking after your best

1488
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: financial interests, it turns out they're not. They're also looking

1489
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 1: after advancing these other environmental and social goals. Who are

1490
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: these institutions their asset management firms like black Rock or

1491
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: State Street or Vanguard or Investco or countless others that

1492
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 1: have signed a pledge to say that they're going to

1493
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: align all of their underlying companies with the goals of

1494
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 1: the Paris Climate accordance, with net zero standards by twenty fifty,

1495
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: with modern diversity, equity and inclusion standards. And those three

1496
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: or four firms alone manage about twenty trillion dollars, maybe

1497
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: even a little bit more. That's more than the US

1498
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: GDP right now in the hands of three to four

1499
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: financial institutions. So Vivek defines their ESG as quote using

1500
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,879
Speaker 1: capital markets to accomplish through the back door what government

1501
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 1: could not get done through the front door under the constitution.

1502
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: Goes on to talk, as you heard about the power

1503
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: money held by just a handful of institutions. And on

1504
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: this point I actually completely agree, because while corporations in

1505
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: Wall Street may pay lift service to a goal that

1506
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 1: I support, which is dealing with the climate right. I

1507
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: am under no illusion that these are actually my allies

1508
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: on this or any other issue. The answer to the

1509
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: problem of corporateocracy lies in checking corporate power through unions,

1510
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: through trustbusting, regulation, taxation, getting money out of politics. But

1511
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 1: these are not actually Vivek's preferred solutions. Instead, he established

1512
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: an anti ESG fund, which seeks to use the very

1513
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 1: same tactics that he objects to when deployed by ESG types,

1514
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 1: to try to coerce corporations into behaving in the way

1515
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: he wants them to behave. So it's not so much

1516
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: that he opposes corporate power, just corporate power being used

1517
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: for things that he doesn't like. In addition, Vivek asserts

1518
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: that the public does not support the goals of ESG,

1519
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 1: hence the notion repeated by others that this is forcing

1520
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: changes on the American public that they do not want.

1521
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: So let's examine that now. On social justice, I think

1522
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: it really depends on what you mean how you ask

1523
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: the question. Majorities of Americans of all races do say

1524
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: systemic racism is real. Even among white Americans, only twenty

1525
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: nine percent disagreed with that statement, But if you ask

1526
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: about some of the goofy so oh it's racist stuff

1527
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: that's pushed by DEI consultants, I could easily imagine very

1528
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: different responses here. However, when it comes to environmental concerns,

1529
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: the polling is actually a lot more clear. Polls consistently

1530
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,640
Speaker 1: show large majorities of Americans, including a majority of Republicans,

1531
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: support transitioning away from fossil fuels. Even voters in famously

1532
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: pro coal West Virginia support making this transition and using

1533
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: federal dollars to do so so. In this particular survey,

1534
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 1: they found West Virginians are supporting green energy spending by

1535
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 1: the federal government by a fifteen point margin, so it's

1536
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,759
Speaker 1: not even particularly close. So when Viveck and others claim

1537
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: that capital is sneaking in an agenda they can't win

1538
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: through democratic means, they actually have the failure of democracy

1539
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 1: completely backwards. The public has seen their desires blocked by

1540
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 1: anti democratic means from achieving the clean energy policies they

1541
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 1: would like to see enact it now, the reason Congress

1542
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: hasn't done more has nothing to do with public will

1543
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,600
Speaker 1: and everything to do again with big money. There are

1544
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people making a lot of money off

1545
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 1: of maintaining the current fossil fuel based ECONO, Big Oil

1546
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: Coke Network and others have flooded the campaign coffers of

1547
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: key legislators to try to prevent the action that the

1548
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: public actually desires. But while Vivek uses the language of

1549
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 1: democracy to explain his opposition to ESG, there's no sign

1550
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 1: he's actually interested in making legislatives more responsive to the people,

1551
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 1: at least not on issues where he disagrees with that

1552
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: majority sentiment. In fact, he's quite derisive about the activists

1553
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: and citizens who are concerned about the climate crisis and

1554
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: think it worthy of action. He dismisses them in a

1555
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 1: monoloth in this monolith, in this interview, in others, as

1556
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:33,839
Speaker 1: quote climatists who have foolishly adopted concern for the environment

1557
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: as a sort of pseudo religion because their lives are

1558
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 1: otherwise devoid of meaning. Now, listen, I don't doubt that

1559
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: people find deep satisfaction in doing work or activism that

1560
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: they find meaningful. There's nothing nefarious about that. But there's

1561
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: also a much simpler story here. A lot of people

1562
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: are just genuinely concerned by the mountain of evidence that

1563
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,440
Speaker 1: the climate crisis is bringing more droughts, floods, hurricanes, and wildfires,

1564
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: and now the results will be quite bad if we

1565
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: don't deal with that. In fact, they are already quite bad,

1566
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: and that increasingly we actually have the tools to be

1567
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: able to tackle that crisis. So the truth is, while

1568
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: the VEC has a clever intellectual pitch that he makes here,

1569
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: what he's doing is not really anything new. He opposes

1570
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: action on climate by business, and he opposes action on

1571
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 1: climate by the government. All the rhetorical nods to corporate

1572
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:18,680
Speaker 1: powered democracy can get in the way of seeing that

1573
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: he has the same position as every other climate dey

1574
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 1: are out there. Opposing ESG is appealing because it has

1575
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 1: the esthetics of being against the system, sticking it to

1576
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: corporate America. But in reality his efforts they're a giant

1577
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: gift to big oil, to the coke network, to quite

1578
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: a few by the way of those Davos elites that

1579
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: he rails against. Joe Biden just greenlit the Giant Willow

1580
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: project for Connaco Phillips. Is he an anti establishment renegade

1581
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 1: taking on the system. I hardly think so. There's another

1582
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:47,719
Speaker 1: part of this interview though, that I think is important

1583
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 1: on the social justice piece of ESG. Listen to the

1584
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: vex's telling of the birth of the ESG movement and

1585
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: its alliance with what he and Peterson describe as the

1586
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 1: radical left. Take a lesson. The left actually had a

1587
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 1: point in this country. Occupy Wall Street was born. And

1588
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: what they said is, look, if you're going to play

1589
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 1: that crony capitalist game, then you know what we're going

1590
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: to play our game. We're just going to take money

1591
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: from your wealthy, corporate fat cat pockets and redistribute it

1592
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 1: to poor people to help poor people, because that's what

1593
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 1: we on the far left want to do on the

1594
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 1: Occupy Wall Street movement. But right around that time, there

1595
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 1: was a fissure in the left wing movement in this

1596
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: country where there was the birth of this new let's

1597
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: call it the woke left. Barack Obama had just been

1598
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 1: elected the first black president the United States. There was

1599
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 1: a lot of cultural currents in the US that said, well,

1600
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there, the real problem isn't quite economic

1601
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 1: injustice or poverty. It's really racial injustice and misogyny and bigotry.

1602
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: And by the way, climate change. And this is post

1603
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: al Gore's inconvenient truth This actually presented the opportunity of

1604
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: a generation for Wall Street to say that no, no no, no, okay, guys,

1605
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: we'll make a deal with you. We will use our

1606
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 1: corporate power, use our money, really your money, to applaud

1607
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion, to put token minorities on corporate boards,

1608
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: to muse about this racially disparate impact of climate change

1609
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 1: from the mountaintops of Davos, after flying there in a

1610
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 1: private jet. We'll do all of these things, but we

1611
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 1: don't do it for free. We expect the new left

1612
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: to look the other way when it comes to leaving

1613
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: our corporate power intact. And so they defanged Occupy Wall Street.

1614
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 1: Most people don't even remember what Occupy Wall Street is.

1615
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: It went by the wayside, and that's how the birth

1616
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: of this new what I've sometimes called woke industrial or

1617
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 1: est industrial complex was born, where Wall Street said that

1618
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: you know what, if you can't beat us, join us.

1619
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: This is a nice story, but it's not remotely what happened.

1620
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,759
Speaker 1: Even Jordan Peterson expresses some skepticism of this fairy tale.

1621
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 1: First of all, the Occupy movement, it didn't just go

1622
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 1: by the wayside. Key organizers from Occupy were involved in

1623
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,679
Speaker 1: drafting and supporting Bernie Sanders for president. You might recall

1624
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 1: that Bernie carried a strong message about the ninety nine

1625
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: percent versus the millionaires and billionaires, and would have been

1626
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 1: president had he not had the nomination stolen by the

1627
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: Democratic establishment led by Hillary Clinton. It was not Bernie

1628
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: and the Occupy offshoots that abandoned the bank and class

1629
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 1: focused critique of power. It was Hillary Clinton and the

1630
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 1: neoliberals who relentlessly club Bernie and his supporters as quote

1631
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 1: unquote class reductionists. Remember when she harangued the left because

1632
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 1: breaking up the big banks wouldn't end sexism and racism.

1633
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 1: So there is in fact an unholy alliance here, but

1634
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 1: it's the polar opposite of what Vivec postulates. Neoliberals led

1635
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: by Hillary Clinton, who had long been in bed with

1636
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: Wall Street and corporate America. This was nothing new invented

1637
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: the ungodly counterproductive politics of personal identity and virtue signaling,

1638
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: and that is the context in which ESG emerges as

1639
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,679
Speaker 1: a way for corporations to signal to gullible, confused, mostly

1640
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: affluent liberals that they are actually the good guys here,

1641
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: and as a way for Hillary Clinton to try to

1642
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 1: claim progressive cred even as her record was regressive and terrible.

1643
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: The actual left was smeared relentlessly with this toxic mode

1644
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: of politics, I can promise you that, and many did

1645
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: ultimately submit to it. Even Bernie made sure to include

1646
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: a lot more language of the identity politics left in

1647
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 1: his twenty twenty four run, even though of course his

1648
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: core policy commitments did remain the same. The irony ofs

1649
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: Vivek admits that funds like Blackrock are hypocritical in their

1650
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: stated environmentalism, so he, on the one hand, will acknowledge

1651
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: they aren't even really doing the thing that they claim

1652
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: to be doing. But on the other hand, he posits

1653
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,640
Speaker 1: that ESG represents some fundamental restructuring of the economy that

1654
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: must be stopped at all costs, again not by checking

1655
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,720
Speaker 1: corporate power, but by backing the corporations which support his

1656
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,839
Speaker 1: preferred ideology and forcing other ESG backing corporations to abandon

1657
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,600
Speaker 1: their fake goals. Now, this confusion could stem from his

1658
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of the history here. If this is truly a

1659
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:24,799
Speaker 1: left align movement, maybe it would have had some teeth.

1660
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: Since it's just warmed over neoliberalism. It definitely doesn't. It's

1661
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 1: just standard cutthroat capitalism with a new fake label on

1662
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: top of it. So if you want the fossil fuel

1663
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: status quota continue, don't worry. Fellis studies have consistently found

1664
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 1: ESG portfolios they actually have worse environmental records than non

1665
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: ESG companies. That's how fake this whole thing is. There

1666
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: are new numbers out though, that show that forty three

1667
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,759
Speaker 1: thousand Somalians died due to a drought caused by famine

1668
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,760
Speaker 1: last year, a majority of them children under five. Now, look,

1669
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 1: the climate skeptics worry that the transition from fossil fuels

1670
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: to renewables could impose a terrible cost in the world

1671
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: in terms of food prices and energy prices, especially among

1672
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: the global South. Those are real fears, and they are,

1673
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 1: by the way, something that climate activists concern themselves with

1674
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: a great deal. But the cost of doing nothing, they're

1675
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: already here, and they're being borne overwhelmingly by the poorest

1676
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 1: nations and the poorest people. So if you think just

1677
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 1: staying the course or doubling down on fossil fuels is

1678
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: the way to go, look, honestly, I think you're wrong,

1679
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 1: but it is a democracy, Go out and make your case,

1680
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 1: but don't try to hide behind tortured arguments about corporate

1681
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: power and the woke left. They're really just a smoke

1682
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 1: screen for opposition to all climate action wherever it comes from. Honestly,

1683
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: I sort of miss the old days when people just

1684
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: be upfront in their climate denihilism, because at least that

1685
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 1: was honest, and that, to me is the irony. I

1686
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 1: also have an ESG critique, which is that it is

1687
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: all Sager fake And if you want to hear my

1688
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at

1689
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Joining us now is David Thibodeau. He's

1690
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: a survivor of the Way Go stand off. He's also

1691
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: the author of a survivor's story, Let's go and put

1692
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:06,719
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen Waco, a survivor story,

1693
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: which was later made into that excellent TV mini series.

1694
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: It's a book that I have read Crystal as well.

1695
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: It's fantastic, thrown incredibly detailed. It is not biased really

1696
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 1: in any way, and just goes through who David Thibodeau is,

1697
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: the story of his interactions with David Koresh and then

1698
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 1: a step by step account of exactly what happened during

1699
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: that siege. David, we found out you were a fan

1700
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 1: of the show, I said, we got to get this

1701
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 1: guy on. So thank you very much for joining us.

1702
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. It's such a pleasure in the honor

1703
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 1: to be here. Really, I really am a big fan

1704
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,639
Speaker 1: of the show, Absolutely so, David. One of the things

1705
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 1: I thought was really important about your book is it

1706
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 1: was a dispassionate view and a step by step case

1707
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,880
Speaker 1: not only of what happened at the compound the events

1708
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 1: that led up to it, but eventually many of the

1709
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: dismantling the mainstream media's coverage of the FBI, the ATF

1710
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: and the actions that they took on the initial raid.

1711
01:26:58,160 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: A lot of this is also coming under scrutiny now.

1712
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 1: Were in the thirty year anniversary. There's a new Netflix documentary.

1713
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: You and I were talking a little bit before this,

1714
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: the three of us about some of the inaccuracies and

1715
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 1: others broadly, though thirty years later, people my age, you know,

1716
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 1: we didn't grow up with Waco. It's kind of a

1717
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 1: distant memory. Can you just describe for people what happened

1718
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 1: to you and to the branch Davidians on that day

1719
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: while you were inside the compound. The events that lead

1720
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 1: led up to it, what eventually led to the standoff, Yeah, sure, Well,

1721
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, the first day this actually started, I had

1722
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: been there for a year living on the property, and

1723
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: we took all the little houses down there, a bunch

1724
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,400
Speaker 1: of little houses. We built that big house. And the

1725
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: course of the year that I was there, Cresh had

1726
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 1: met someone named Henry McMahon who was a licensed firearm dealer,

1727
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 1: and Henry kind of showed him the ropes and a

1728
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: couple of the guys the ropes of the gun business.

1729
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 1: They started going to, you know, all kinds of gun

1730
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: shows and finding out that they could make quite a

1731
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 1: good profit, especially at the time Congress was passing a

1732
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:01,759
Speaker 1: bill that was going to make certain munition very valuable.

1733
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 1: So they started to get into the business of things.

1734
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: And before a couple of people that had firearms, but

1735
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:09,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't a huge deal that it kind of became

1736
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: that last year, so it ramped up pretty quickly. But

1737
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 1: you know, living there, we would see helicopters fly around

1738
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 1: the building, and we'd see people taking pictures of us

1739
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So, you know, we knew that

1740
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 1: something something was afoot. Then these two guys claiming that

1741
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:30,599
Speaker 1: they were college students. The two or three guys moved

1742
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: in across the street. They started, you know, they didn't

1743
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,599
Speaker 1: move in in a furniture or anything. They moved in

1744
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 1: equipment cases, right, things like that. So, yeah, they were

1745
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: in their mid thirties. They seemed to have you know,

1746
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 1: the hat Serengetti sunglasses, they had really nice SUVs. It

1747
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: didn't really fit the mold of a bunch of college

1748
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 1: guys living next door. So pretty suspicious. But to me,

1749
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,639
Speaker 1: I just want to get right to The Waco Tribune

1750
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 1: Herald did a series called the Sinful Messiah Series. It

1751
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:08,719
Speaker 1: was an investigative journalism, that's what they called it, anyway,

1752
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:11,519
Speaker 1: And they put that out the day before the BATF

1753
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 1: four two raid the building with the helicopters in the

1754
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 1: back and the two cattle trailers with the seventy five agents.

1755
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: And you know, how irresponsible for them to put that

1756
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 1: article out, And just the fact they didn't work with

1757
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 1: the with the authorities at all and just did that

1758
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 1: out of their own arrogance really shows that some of

1759
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 1: the journals at that time definitely have blood on their hands,

1760
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 1: as well as the commanders at the ATF who planned

1761
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 1: this raid. They lost the element of surprise. They should

1762
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 1: have stopped right there. Frankly, if they thought David was

1763
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 1: such a criminal, they had so much evidence against them.

1764
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they didn't just get him jogging

1765
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,719
Speaker 1: in front of their surveillance house, or David had taken

1766
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: them to a firing range and shot with them. So

1767
01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 1: they kept saying how they were scared that Kresh was

1768
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: going to shoot them at any minute, but they hung

1769
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 1: out and they went off site with David. So that

1770
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:08,720
Speaker 1: didn't really make a lot of sense to me. You know,

1771
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing could have been avoided, should have been avoided,

1772
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 1: and David should have had his time in court. Yeah, well,

1773
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more about David, because I

1774
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: certainly don't want to whitewash. I mean, this is a

1775
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: man who was sleeping with very young girls. But what

1776
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: they came in on was actually firearms charges, so I

1777
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 1: think it's important to note here as well. But you know,

1778
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 1: you obviously found him to be incredibly compelling enough to

1779
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:40,679
Speaker 1: completely upend your life and you know, swear off sex

1780
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:44,360
Speaker 1: and go live in this compound. What was it that

1781
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: you found so compelling, especially given and your mom, you know,

1782
01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:50,519
Speaker 1: seems to be a real force. She was like completely

1783
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 1: opposed to this, and you were close to her, like

1784
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:57,160
Speaker 1: what led you to this place? And swear sex. I

1785
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 1: was trying to be a little more spiritual for that

1786
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 1: couple of years. So let's say that at least you're honest.

1787
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 1: But you know, my mother is very much a oh boy,

1788
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: my mother is very much a goddess culture individual. So

1789
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, I knew when it came to scripture, she

1790
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be down at all with anything. And

1791
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: it could have been you know, it could have been

1792
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 1: any preacher whatsoever. She just wasn't going to be done

1793
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 1: with that. So I just tried to keep her out

1794
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: of the equation as much as possible. And I just

1795
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: wanted to know what the Bible really said because I

1796
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: am stupidly curious like that. I would watch the TV

1797
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: preachers on Sunday and knew that they were just about

1798
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:41,640
Speaker 1: the money. That that obviously wasn't anything to me. My

1799
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 1: father's a history teacher, I retired, so to me, the

1800
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: history of the Scripture, Okay, so much blood is so

1801
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 1: much violence, different ways of thought the battles, the that

1802
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:00,719
Speaker 1: have happened over the centuries over this book. Some people

1803
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 1: faced the lions in the Roman Colosseum and died as Christians.

1804
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 1: Early on, there were I mean just just so much

1805
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 1: passion over this book. Why what is it? You know,

1806
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 1: at the time we used to swear on the Bible

1807
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 1: in court or in school, we had to say there

1808
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: was a time when you said that the Pledge of

1809
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 1: allegiance every day and these things had reverence, and I

1810
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 1: just wondered about I wanted to know what it really said.

1811
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 1: And this guy made it come alive. David Koresh when

1812
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 1: he gave a study from Genesis to Revelation is if

1813
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:32,200
Speaker 1: he lived it. That's That's the simplest, best way I

1814
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:35,679
Speaker 1: can describe it. And so it was fascinating to see.

1815
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 1: It was fascinating to watch, and you just wanted to

1816
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 1: learn more. The more I learned, the more I wanted

1817
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 1: to learn, and the more I became involved. Yeah, well

1818
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 1: I am again I encourage people to read the book.

1819
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 1: Is a very detailed acount that goes into it. And

1820
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:49,800
Speaker 1: to me, you know, again, as Chrystl said, I'm not

1821
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: going to co sign. You know, certainly think that a

1822
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 1: lot of what was going on, which you are honest

1823
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,839
Speaker 1: also about in the book, was absolutely should be condemned.

1824
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 1: But if we take a step back and look at

1825
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 1: this just from a law enforcement respective, and that's kind

1826
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 1: of what I want to focus on, is the actions

1827
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 1: of the ATF in the initial raid. They lay out

1828
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 1: a case in which they were being fired on by

1829
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 1: fifty caliber weapons. They were being fired on with automatic

1830
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 1: weapons that you guys had one point six million rounds

1831
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: of ammunition, that the branch Davidians unequivocally were the ones

1832
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: who fought, who fired first. You lay out and break

1833
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: down many of these claims in your book. Can you

1834
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 1: just go through some of the initial claims on the

1835
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 1: first ones as to why violence occurred on the day

1836
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:34,040
Speaker 1: of the initial raid in February, Sure, Rake before when

1837
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: we could hear the helicopters in the background, and there

1838
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 1: were a bunch of doors were slamming, and I could

1839
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 1: hear I could hear all these things going on, and

1840
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:42,840
Speaker 1: David give him to the top of the stairs. I

1841
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 1: was in the cafeteria and there heard a couple guys

1842
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:47,599
Speaker 1: with him, and he says, they're coming, They're on their way.

1843
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,720
Speaker 1: Don't anybody do anything stupid, I'm going to go try

1844
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 1: to talk to him. So he went to the front

1845
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 1: and everybody that was at the front door tells me

1846
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:57,519
Speaker 1: the same story, Jamie Cassillo to Greg. A lot of

1847
01:33:57,560 --> 01:33:59,640
Speaker 1: these people told me the same story. And that was

1848
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 1: the day went to the door. He had it in

1849
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: his hand, he said, hold on, there's women and children here,

1850
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,400
Speaker 1: let's talk about this. And the door flew back in

1851
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 1: his hand from the velocity of bullets hitting it. Kerry Jones,

1852
01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 1: who was his father in law, seventy year old man

1853
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 1: got hit in the stomach and went down screaming, and

1854
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: that's when some of the people started firing back. Now,

1855
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 1: we did a lot of research for the book, and

1856
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:23,599
Speaker 1: I learned actually a lot of things I didn't know

1857
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 1: from just being a witness and being there, from the

1858
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:28,160
Speaker 1: research we had done. And you know, one of the

1859
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 1: things was that some of the trial testimony in San

1860
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: Antonio indicated that some of the first shots were fired.

1861
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 1: One guy said he was reaching for his firearm and

1862
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:40,200
Speaker 1: it went off, and he believed he was the one

1863
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:43,680
Speaker 1: that fired the first shot one atf agent. That testimony

1864
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: was recanted later when it came to for him his

1865
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 1: testimony in front of Congress. That happened a couple times

1866
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 1: where their testimonies were recanted. The team that went to

1867
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: suppress quote unquote the dogs or shoot the dogs because

1868
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: we had five Alaskan Malamutes and penned up area. They

1869
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:04,960
Speaker 1: shot the dogs first thing and just murdered them. Some

1870
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: of the trial testimony indicated that those were the first

1871
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,600
Speaker 1: shots being shot at the dogs. Now, one of the

1872
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 1: issues that I have and in one of the books

1873
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:16,280
Speaker 1: that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna name the name

1874
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: of the book because I don't want you to buy

1875
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:21,719
Speaker 1: it because it's complete property. Well, it's propaganda. He names

1876
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: the ATF agent that was supposed to go at the

1877
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:25,920
Speaker 1: dogs with a fire extinguisher, as if to suppress the

1878
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 1: dogs with the fire extinguisher. That's something they put in

1879
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: their movie Ambush at Waco, which I found to be

1880
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 1: a propaganda film completely. It was one of the first

1881
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:37,639
Speaker 1: movies to come out. Even the writer of that movie

1882
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: has disowned it and apologized to the survivors because he

1883
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 1: was just giving all of the information from the ATFN

1884
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 1: wrote that film. Long story short, In that film, they

1885
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:50,520
Speaker 1: show an agent going at the dogs with the fire extinguisher.

1886
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 1: They didn't have fire extinguishers. They shot the dogs first thing.

1887
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 1: So for them to continue to perpetrate this propaganda thirty

1888
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:04,479
Speaker 1: years later personally very offensive. Yeah. Well, I mean putting

1889
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 1: David Krush aside. You're talking about seventy six branch Davidians,

1890
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 1: including twenty five children, two pregnant women, who were all

1891
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 1: killed here. And I think the point that you make

1892
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:21,600
Speaker 1: about how this was avoidable. I mean every accounting that

1893
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:23,920
Speaker 1: I've watched of this, the ones that are you know,

1894
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:25,680
Speaker 1: seem to be more accurate and fair. The ones that

1895
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:28,519
Speaker 1: are less fair. I'm just watching the whole time going

1896
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 1: what the hell are you fitting? Like? Why are you

1897
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:36,599
Speaker 1: doing this? You know there are scores of completely innocent

1898
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 1: people in this building. What are you doing? So? I

1899
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 1: guess that's my question to you. Why do you think

1900
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: that they move forward with this plan? Why didn't they

1901
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 1: just arrest David when he was out jogging or try

1902
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:52,040
Speaker 1: to go about that. I mean, they brought in tanks

1903
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: and hal it was insane. Why do they do this?

1904
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: Speaking as someone who is in that building instead with

1905
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:02,880
Speaker 1: David for a couple of years, everyone who' survived that

1906
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:05,599
Speaker 1: will tell you it's a spiritual thing. They will tell

1907
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:08,719
Speaker 1: you that David really did have some kind of message,

1908
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:10,960
Speaker 1: that he did have some kind of understanding, and as

1909
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:12,959
Speaker 1: crazy as they made him out to be, I understand

1910
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 1: all that. Man. If I were on the outside, I

1911
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 1: would have been the first person saying those people are nuts.

1912
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:20,600
Speaker 1: I really would have. But I was there, so I

1913
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 1: saw this different side. You know, I look at it

1914
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 1: as a spiritual thing. But it's also the incredible arrogance

1915
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:31,680
Speaker 1: of the ATF and the FBI during the course of

1916
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: the fifty one day stiege that helped make the Bible

1917
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 1: come alive, because when you're reading the scripture, the people

1918
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:42,679
Speaker 1: have God to contrite and humble and it's the forces

1919
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 1: of bad I hate to use these terms of the

1920
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:46,479
Speaker 1: forces of Babylon, if you will, or the forces of

1921
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:50,639
Speaker 1: power very arrogant, and that's how we view these people

1922
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: all the way through, Like they would get on the

1923
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 1: tanks and moon us and flip us off. And you know,

1924
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:57,040
Speaker 1: there are periods of time during the siege where people

1925
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 1: would exit the building and a flash bangrenade would be

1926
01:37:59,320 --> 01:38:01,519
Speaker 1: thrown at them. It seemed like they were always trying

1927
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 1: to get us to shoot at them. Somehow they were

1928
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: always trying to make a you know, be aggressive. Yeah,

1929
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 1: it was crazy to me, you know, reading as you

1930
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 1: said as Chrys was laying out, I mean not only

1931
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: like the perimeter, the destruction of property, using the tanks,

1932
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:19,600
Speaker 1: playing the music, the level of torture, and again, like

1933
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 1: let's be honest, David did renag on his deal in

1934
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:24,599
Speaker 1: order to get everybody out of the compound and let

1935
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 1: this thing go on. So like, I'm not saying that

1936
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:29,719
Speaker 1: there wasn't blame on both sides, but at the same time,

1937
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:33,799
Speaker 1: like you don't import use tanks, insert gas into a building.

1938
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 1: That was another one there, David, which we have to

1939
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about as well, which is that

1940
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: the ATF, the FBI, and all others maintained that the

1941
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: Branch Davidians are the ones who committed a tragic mass

1942
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 1: suicide and set fire to the building. What evidence is

1943
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:51,720
Speaker 1: there for and against that? Sure, you know, I want

1944
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 1: to speak to what you said there about David. There

1945
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 1: were huge mistakes made on both sides. You know, David

1946
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 1: had his periods of time where he was arrogant, he

1947
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 1: was angry and obviously was not thinking clearly. While they

1948
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 1: had the speaker system going twenty four to seven. You

1949
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:08,920
Speaker 1: got a bunch of people, you say, religious fanatics, and

1950
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,519
Speaker 1: you're going to keep speaker system on them and play

1951
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 1: at twenty four to seven to make them crazier. That

1952
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 1: makes no sense to me whatsoever. Like they're gonna make

1953
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:20,040
Speaker 1: like people are gonna make rational decisions under those circumstances.

1954
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen. But I would like

1955
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 1: to talk about the CS gas that they use. CS

1956
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:32,160
Speaker 1: gas is it's banned under the Amnesty International Geneva Convention.

1957
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 1: We can't use it against we can't use it against

1958
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 1: foreign forces. It's a riot control agent. In the in

1959
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:45,720
Speaker 1: the actual manufacturer's booklet, it says only to be used outdoors,

1960
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:50,719
Speaker 1: never indoors. It's especially it could be harmful to children,

1961
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:54,719
Speaker 1: older people with smaller respiratory tracks. This is the gas

1962
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:58,480
Speaker 1: that they chose to use, a gas that is banned internationally.

1963
01:39:59,320 --> 01:40:02,120
Speaker 1: Not only that, but the delivery method when you're using

1964
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:06,480
Speaker 1: the ferret rounds. Myth of the csgas is methylene chloride,

1965
01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 1: which is one of the ingredients that's used in paint thinner,

1966
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 1: something that is actually mildly flammable. So they were using

1967
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 1: the csgas thing it's not flammable whatsoever. But the amount

1968
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 1: that they used was absolutely incredible. I think it was

1969
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:22,839
Speaker 1: four hundred or three hundred and eighty eight ferret rounds

1970
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 1: before they exhausted their supply. And this is supposed to

1971
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 1: be over two days. They exhausted their supply by ten am,

1972
01:40:29,479 --> 01:40:31,439
Speaker 1: and then they started to use the tanks to come

1973
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 1: in take out sections of the building and spray the

1974
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:36,760
Speaker 1: gas in. Now, when they took out the sections of

1975
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:39,280
Speaker 1: the building, they created these huge holes in the building.

1976
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,800
Speaker 1: If you talk to anyone that is a firefighter or

1977
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: a fire marshal, that's an oxygen flow system. If you

1978
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,240
Speaker 1: look at an aerial of the building, you can see

1979
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 1: the tanks have made a fire break around it. There

1980
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:56,000
Speaker 1: is nothing that will burn around that building. I can't

1981
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 1: say that's a coincidence, man. I mean, you know, when

1982
01:40:57,920 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 1: you put it all together, it looks pretty in a

1983
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: fair to me. Yeah, unbelievable. Well, David, thank you so

1984
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:06,600
Speaker 1: much for taking some time to talk to us. We

1985
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:09,400
Speaker 1: really recommend people read the whole book, yes, because I

1986
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 1: do think it comes across as very unvarnished both you know,

1987
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:17,920
Speaker 1: your own self reflection about your journey to that compound

1988
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: what happened on that day, the ways that the official

1989
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:24,240
Speaker 1: narrative are just you know, it was just completely false

1990
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:27,559
Speaker 1: in certain respects. So thank you so much for taking

1991
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:30,200
Speaker 1: some time with us. Thank you David, thank you for

1992
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 1: having me. I really appreciate your time today. It's our

1993
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 1: pleasure absolutely. Thank you guys so much for watching. We

1994
01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Reminder you can watch the full show

1995
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 1: on Spotify for premium members Breakingpoints dot Com to go

1996
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 1: ahead and sign up. We've got we're on standby this

1997
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 1: weekend just in case, you know, I never know, in

1998
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 1: some sort of indictment and all that, we're always on

1999
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 1: top of it for everybody. Otherwise, we will see you

2000
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:52,240
Speaker 1: all on Monday. As I said, I'm going to be

2001
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:53,960
Speaker 1: in New York City, but I'll be coming in remote.

2002
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:55,679
Speaker 1: Crystal's going on Russell Brand, I'm going on the Andrew

2003
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 1: Sheltz Show. So we're all going to have a hell

2004
01:41:57,360 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 1: of a lot of fun. All right, We'll see you later.

2005
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 1: APO