Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Tabletop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook
Speaker 1: Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Crazy Rich Asians was huge. Fresh off the
Speaker 1: Boat was his story. The star. Constance Wu was on
Speaker 1: top of the world. Then with one tweet, it all
Speaker 1: came crashing down. People were canceling me for being ungrateful
Speaker 1: and ungraceful. I read these dms from an Asian actress.
Speaker 1: She called you a blight on the Asian community. The
Speaker 1: world was saying you will never suffer as much as
Speaker 1: you deserved to suffer. While I was unsafe at that point,
Speaker 1: the backlash drove her to attempt suicide. I was feeling
Speaker 1: like I didn't deserve to live, feeling like I had
Speaker 1: ruined everything for everyone, And maybe I did for some people,
Speaker 1: but people make mistakes. Right. For the first time in years,
Speaker 1: Constance Wu was speaking out. I had swallowed the abuse
Speaker 1: for so long. It was him rubbing my leg and
Speaker 1: being like, your skin is so smooth, and then going further,
Speaker 1: you talk about having been raped. Her response to those
Speaker 1: who turned against do you feel the need to apologize anymore. Rude, nasty,
Speaker 1: mean spirited, arrogant, spoiled, brett ungrateful little bitch. I hope
Speaker 1: you get fired and contract a terrible disease. These are
Speaker 1: just a few of the harsh comments posted about our
Speaker 1: special guest today. In twenty nineteen, Constance Woo was a
Speaker 1: Hollywood darling. Her stellar performance in the smash hit Crazy
Speaker 1: Rich Asians earned her a Golden Globe nomination, the first
Speaker 1: for an Asian woman in fifty six years. She played
Speaker 1: a hilariously strict mom and the popular sitcom Fresh off
Speaker 1: the Boat and a stripper alongside j Low in Hustlers. Then,
Speaker 1: after news broke that her sitcom had been renewed, Constance
Speaker 1: and a tweet that ignited a viral firestorm. So upset
Speaker 1: right now that I'm literally crying. When a fan tweeted,
Speaker 1: congrats when your renewal great news, Constance replied with no,
Speaker 1: it's not. The backlash was swift and unrelenting. Many of
Speaker 1: Constance's millions of fans turned against her that a matter
Speaker 1: of days. Constance, who was once celebrated and adored, was attacked, vilified,
Speaker 1: and ostracized. For three years, she disappeared from social media
Speaker 1: and pulled back from public life. At her lowest point,
Speaker 1: Constance attempted suicide. Constance Wu because here for her first
Speaker 1: in depth interview since the release of her highly anticipated
Speaker 1: memoir Making a Scene. Hi, welcome for having thank you, Hello,
Speaker 1: I have a seat. We know very well here at
Speaker 1: this table what it is like to get hit with backlash.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we understand. Let's start with what you've called
Speaker 1: careless tweets and just set the scene for us. It's
Speaker 1: actually hard for me to talk about about getting emotional,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's funny because people were basically
Speaker 1: canceling me for being ungrateful and ungraceful, and they were saying,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't think about the other people's jobs
Speaker 1: on the show, and um, how selfish that was, and
Speaker 1: how I was like behaving like a diva. And what
Speaker 1: people didn't realize that during my first couple of years
Speaker 1: on Fresh off the Boat, I was sexually harassed and
Speaker 1: I was intimidated and I was threatened all the time.
Speaker 1: This producer, he is an Asian American, and the thing
Speaker 1: that was most painful was he was so derogatory and
Speaker 1: harassing towards me but because this show was sort of
Speaker 1: a beacon of representation for Asian Americans and I sort
Speaker 1: of became a symbol of representation. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: sully the one show with sexual harassment claims against the
Speaker 1: one Asian American man who was doing all this better
Speaker 1: work for the community. So I think that's sort of
Speaker 1: what happened. When I, you know, tweeted that stuff, it
Speaker 1: seemed out of character if you don't know me and
Speaker 1: don't know all the pain and abuse I had to
Speaker 1: swallow for years. And the reason I'm crying now is
Speaker 1: because you sort of have to be honest about it
Speaker 1: as it happens, so it doesn't come out later the
Speaker 1: way it does. You mentioned sexual harassment. Was that happening
Speaker 1: on set? And it happened on set things like show
Speaker 1: me show me this friend, I want to see if
Speaker 1: her or not like that kind of thing. Constance writes
Speaker 1: about her experience with the Asian American producer who was
Speaker 1: her boss. He told me the way he preferred my
Speaker 1: hair guys like long hair. Told me I looked better
Speaker 1: in short skirts and should wear them more often while
Speaker 1: you still can, he'd say, with a smirk. He kept
Speaker 1: tabs on all areas of my life. She says. He
Speaker 1: would send her messages after hours. Sometimes he texted me
Speaker 1: late at night requesting selfies. It made me feel uncomfortable
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to, so I made excuses like, gosh, sorry,
Speaker 1: I hate selfies. They made me feel so narcissistic. He
Speaker 1: thought that was stupid. It's not a big deal, he
Speaker 1: told me later, Lots of actresses send me selfies. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also felt guilty because I felt like I was
Speaker 1: playing into it because at that time, this is my
Speaker 1: first ever big TV show. I gotta pretend I'm part
Speaker 1: of the boys club. I gotta pretend I'm cool with
Speaker 1: this talk. I'm like and I would just say, oh
Speaker 1: my god, there's such a dick, like get over yourself.
Speaker 1: But the actual touching of me, it only happened once,
Speaker 1: and it was quote unquote not that bad compared to
Speaker 1: other stories I've heard. But the point is it shouldn't
Speaker 1: have happened at all. He was basically pressuring me to
Speaker 1: go to a basketball game. I really don't want to
Speaker 1: row too. I finally relented, and then him telling me
Speaker 1: to dress cute, and then it was him rubbing my
Speaker 1: leg and being like, your skin is so smooth, and
Speaker 1: me being like stop, don't do that, and then him
Speaker 1: going further and putting his hand over my crotch, you know,
Speaker 1: and try to like graze and like turn me on
Speaker 1: or something, and then me being like, dude, stop, that's
Speaker 1: not cool, which pissed him off, and then he ignored
Speaker 1: me for five minutes. And I mean it was over jeans,
Speaker 1: so it's like still still, yeah, you don't do that.
Speaker 1: If somebody touches your blooe over sweater, they're still trying
Speaker 1: to touch your book. It doesn't it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 1: I spoke up to a couple of people who I
Speaker 1: thought were kind like friends and allies, and they were like,
Speaker 1: nobody encouraged me to go to HR though, because they
Speaker 1: didn't want to show to be canceled. And then several
Speaker 1: years later, somebody encouraged me to report it to HR,
Speaker 1: but I was like, nobody's going to believe me. I
Speaker 1: don't have evidence. But I regret that, and she was right,
Speaker 1: I should have reported it to h R because that's
Speaker 1: their job. Doesn't even mean any action is going to happen,
Speaker 1: but it means that there's a record of this happening,
Speaker 1: and that is helpful for future people. And the thing
Speaker 1: that was really interesting was too black and white women.
Speaker 1: He displayed the utmost respect and deference. And I've since
Speaker 1: heard accounts from other Asian actresses who have been like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: me too, this happened to me with this guy too.
Speaker 1: It is an interesting phenomenon that makes you feel quite
Speaker 1: alone because if I were to talk about this, like
Speaker 1: if you were my colleague on set, it would be
Speaker 1: baffling to you because she would have treated you the
Speaker 1: difference respect. To see your abuser being buddy buddy with everybody,
Speaker 1: it feels like a betrayal. Absolutely, I understand that one.
Speaker 1: So was this part of the reason why you made
Speaker 1: that tweet? Then it was a perfect storm of many things.
Speaker 1: First of all, I had swallowed the abuse for so
Speaker 1: long that producer and I didn't talk for like the
Speaker 1: remaining three or four years of the show, so I
Speaker 1: thought it was a chapter behind. I never have to
Speaker 1: bring it up. I never have to sullute the reputation
Speaker 1: of the show that's a beacon for Asian American representation,
Speaker 1: and I really wanted a clean slate that didn't hold
Speaker 1: so many memories of intimidation and fear and Also, we
Speaker 1: were told the show likely wouldn't be remute. The last
Speaker 1: episode of the prior season had been written as a
Speaker 1: series finale. My movie Crazy Rich Asians opened right before
Speaker 1: they decided to renew Fresh off the Boat, So it
Speaker 1: was sort of a bad look to cancel the one
Speaker 1: Asian American sitcom when Crazy Asians brought up this renewed conversation.
Speaker 1: And so I think the news just caught me by
Speaker 1: surprise and I had to drop out of the projects.
Speaker 1: I was looking forward to the clean slate. I was
Speaker 1: looking forward to. Your expectations were dashed. I actually felt
Speaker 1: lied to. But the thing is I shouldn't have done
Speaker 1: it on Twitter, and the people don't know you. All
Speaker 1: they know is, oh my goodness, she complaining and you
Speaker 1: were just Crazy Rich Asians was huge, and we have
Speaker 1: this show that represents she thinks she's a big movie star.
Speaker 1: For the information people had, the public had, of course,
Speaker 1: it looked like that. So I don't fault people for
Speaker 1: thinking that. But Asian Americans were the one who kind
Speaker 1: of piled onto me. So after your tweets, a former
Speaker 1: colleague had messaged you saying nothing you could ever do
Speaker 1: would make up for your atrocious behavior and disgusting and gratitude. You, Sully,
Speaker 1: the one shining beacon of whole for Asian Americans. You've
Speaker 1: become a blight on the Asian community. I read these
Speaker 1: d m s from an Asian actress, somebody who should
Speaker 1: have been my ally, and I felt like nothing I
Speaker 1: could ever do would be enough. I felt like the
Speaker 1: only thing that would prove to her that I felt
Speaker 1: as bad as she thought I deserved to feel, would
Speaker 1: would be if I died. I felt like even that
Speaker 1: might not be enough, because I felt like the world
Speaker 1: was saying, you will never suffer as much as you
Speaker 1: deserve to suffer. You deserve to pay for this and
Speaker 1: be punished for this. Can you take us through how
Speaker 1: you ended up on on the ledge of your shift
Speaker 1: floor balcony with a blanket. It was the weirdest detail
Speaker 1: in my mind. I think I wanted to like jump
Speaker 1: with a comfort jet as if I was a child.
Speaker 1: It was so weird. It was after reading these d
Speaker 1: m s and I just got in this state, like
Speaker 1: my palms are still itching when I think about it.
Speaker 1: In her book, Constance reveals what happened after reading those messages.
Speaker 1: Her d ms made me feel helpless and desperate, my
Speaker 1: heart full of sharp attacks. Why wouldn't she believe my
Speaker 1: remorse that I heard as badly as she wanted me to.
Speaker 1: My head spinning, I realized I needed a wound to
Speaker 1: prove it, to prove that I hurt as bad as
Speaker 1: everyone said I deserved to hurt. And it couldn't be
Speaker 1: a little wound. It had to be the biggest wound
Speaker 1: in the world for it to be enough. And that's
Speaker 1: how I ended up clutching the balcony railing of my
Speaker 1: fifth floor apartment and staring wildly down at the New
Speaker 1: York City street below. Wow. A friend who had come
Speaker 1: to check on me pulled me over from climbing over
Speaker 1: the ledge and dragged into the elevator and took me
Speaker 1: into a cab and took me to a psychiatric emergency
Speaker 1: room where they checked me in, and I slept the
Speaker 1: night on a cot in the waiting room in a
Speaker 1: psychiatric or in New York City under observation. And then
Speaker 1: there were two councilors the next morning who talked to me.
Speaker 1: And then I had to be in therapy with a
Speaker 1: psychiatrist and a psychologist every day for a while. That
Speaker 1: you know it was helpful. I needed it. I was
Speaker 1: unsafe at that point. Yeah, I was in a mental
Speaker 1: place of just beating myself and so much shame and
Speaker 1: feeling like I didn't deserve to live, feeling like the
Speaker 1: world hated me, feeling like I had ruined everything for everyone,
Speaker 1: and maybe I did for some people. But you know,
Speaker 1: people make mistakes, absolutely, and I'm sorry. I hate that.
Speaker 1: I'm crying. I can't help it. I like it makes sense.
Speaker 1: I know, growing up in the limelight, we kind of
Speaker 1: are like, oh whatever. We kind of try to bush
Speaker 1: it off, like people say things, people this and that,
Speaker 1: and we we try to normalize it. But it's not
Speaker 1: normal for millions of people to be hateful towards one person,
Speaker 1: and it shocks the nervous system, and it shocks the mind,
Speaker 1: and it shocks the heart, and it shocks the soul.
Speaker 1: It's not normal and it hurts. So it was those
Speaker 1: hurtful d m s that was on top of everything else.
Speaker 1: Everything ms were sort of the pushed you and that's
Speaker 1: what got you to that place of possibly harming yourself.
Speaker 1: And you're right, it's not normal. I have been punished
Speaker 1: and mocked, and you know, there was an event several
Speaker 1: months later. There's this organization called CAPE and they do
Speaker 1: this gala every year for Asians and they wanted me
Speaker 1: to come because they wanted to celebrate the show and
Speaker 1: the kids on the show. And at that time, there's
Speaker 1: so much controversy around me that I was like, if
Speaker 1: I go, people are just gonna want to talk about
Speaker 1: the tweets, and like, I love my kids on the
Speaker 1: show so much, I want this to be a moment
Speaker 1: for them to celebrate. And also I told them I
Speaker 1: don't want anybody to make fun of it because I'm
Speaker 1: still in a very raw place about it, like I'm
Speaker 1: not ready to be mocked for it. They didn't know
Speaker 1: I had a suicide attempt, but I expressed that, like
Speaker 1: I can't deal with that. They promised me they said, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we love Constance. It will only be warm energy and
Speaker 1: positive vibes towards her. So I was like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go. And then they sat me like in the
Speaker 1: front row and like had all these cameras on me,
Speaker 1: and within ten minutes, the host of the show like
Speaker 1: made a crack at me, and I was sitting there
Speaker 1: alone trying not to cry in a public setting, and
Speaker 1: the whole audience was like, Oh, they had promised they
Speaker 1: wouldn't mock me, and they did it right off the bat.
Speaker 1: It almost got like they were setting me, and it
Speaker 1: truly felt like a betrayal from the Asian American community. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A couple of months prior to that, I was in
Speaker 1: the emergency room. Yeah, and the host of that seem
Speaker 1: he did the right thing and he apologized and it
Speaker 1: was a sincere apology. I just want to say, I
Speaker 1: feel like the reaction wouldn't have been as visceral if
Speaker 1: there were more representation beforehand. But I think you hit
Speaker 1: it on the nose. I think it's because it's because
Speaker 1: of the last there of people are like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is our yeah, exactly. So let me explain to you
Speaker 1: why the Asian American community was so angry about Constance
Speaker 1: Woo's tweets. Fresh off the Boat was the first Asian
Speaker 1: American family sitcom that we had had in twenty years,
Speaker 1: and it was huge for the community. So when she
Speaker 1: tweets that she's very unhappy about the fact that the
Speaker 1: show was being renewed for its final season, people really
Speaker 1: felt that not only was she being ungrateful, or acting
Speaker 1: like a prima donna, but that it was a betrayal
Speaker 1: to the Asian American community. Because there are so few
Speaker 1: Asian American stars, there is incredible pressure put on these
Speaker 1: actors like Constance Wood to be perfect. When they make
Speaker 1: a mistake, it seems like a catastrophe because we don't
Speaker 1: have anything else to fill in the void. And because
Speaker 1: she was representing Asian Americans, she wasn't allowed to have
Speaker 1: an emotion in this way. All those people who bullied
Speaker 1: her said, you know what, you don't deserve to have
Speaker 1: a big feeling. This is probably going to be a
Speaker 1: moment of reflection for Asian America about who the real
Speaker 1: target of our anger is and should be. Doesn't Constance
Speaker 1: Woo and every person don't we deserve to quit our
Speaker 1: jobs when we're being treated poorly, or just because we
Speaker 1: don't want to do our jobs anymore? I think too,
Speaker 1: when it comes from your own community, it's even more painful.
Speaker 1: I don't want to deny the fact that there is
Speaker 1: a community responsibility, because there absolutely is, but you've got
Speaker 1: to have grace and compassion as well. I think moments
Speaker 1: like this are an opportunity rather than engaging in judgment
Speaker 1: just to engage in curiosity. I wonder what made somebody
Speaker 1: do something so out of character, And it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you're validating their behavior, because yeah, I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: have tweeted that stuff. What do you feel that your
Speaker 1: Asian community is feeling about you now? Do you feel
Speaker 1: like they're still angry with you? I feel like they
Speaker 1: are avoiding me. M M. I feel the disapproval, but
Speaker 1: rather than being blatant, the silence of how much people
Speaker 1: reached out to me before pre tweet versus post, And
Speaker 1: you can tell the silence has an effect. We need
Speaker 1: to hold each other accountable, but with support. Each other accountable,
Speaker 1: but with the support, it's sort of like you weren't
Speaker 1: your best and I know you can be better, and
Speaker 1: I'm here for you better, rather than like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: not touching that, which is sort of how I feel
Speaker 1: these days. Do you feel the need to apologize anymore?
Speaker 1: I think I'm good with apologies. I think I'm done
Speaker 1: with shame. I think that I have done more work
Speaker 1: than most people have done because I've kind of been
Speaker 1: forced to, you know, more work on yourself. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think the people who still want me to
Speaker 1: apologize and to feel remorse. Are the people like that
Speaker 1: Asian actress who say that nothing I ever do will
Speaker 1: be enough. That's actually yours, that's not about me anymore.
Speaker 1: Who did do look towards for support or comfort in
Speaker 1: your circle? Well, I mean that was also a part
Speaker 1: of it is that I think a lot of my
Speaker 1: close friends kind of disapproved of it too, which made
Speaker 1: me feel even more isolated. Actually, only like two Asians
Speaker 1: reached out to me to check if I was okay.
Speaker 1: What about your family? Oh, that's a whole other thing,
Speaker 1: because that was at a time that I wasn't speaking
Speaker 1: to my mom and I hadn't spoken to my mom
Speaker 1: and like four or five years, complete silence, like not
Speaker 1: even emails. That's something I kept private, that estrangement from
Speaker 1: her because I was embarrassed of it. But at the
Speaker 1: time of those tweets, I was not talking to her.
Speaker 1: I was still very close to my dad and she
Speaker 1: doesn't talk to my father since they're divorce. But when
Speaker 1: that happened, she called my dad was like, hey, is
Speaker 1: she okay? Can you check on her? And my dad
Speaker 1: telling me that kind of broke my heart but also
Speaker 1: made me feel loved in a way, can you tell
Speaker 1: us what caused the a separation between you and your
Speaker 1: mom and the first place talk about that. It was
Speaker 1: when I first became famous with Fresh off the Boat.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to handle fame and it threw
Speaker 1: me into a tailspin. And I do think that I,
Speaker 1: like many daughters do, I took it out on my mom.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes she reacted in ways that were very paranoid,
Speaker 1: telling me like what I shouldn't shouldn't do. But I
Speaker 1: internalized it and almost like weaponized it against her. I
Speaker 1: wasn't a great daughter at that time, and that was
Speaker 1: I think maybe around the time I was like four
Speaker 1: or five months partnant was when I reached out to her.
Speaker 1: And then of course when I had my baby, everything changed.
Speaker 1: Yeah that'll do it. Yeah, yeah, I know with mom. Mom,
Speaker 1: when I had my children, we had a huge healing
Speaker 1: between us as well, you know her coming into gambihood,
Speaker 1: you finally get it. I saw that little glint, that
Speaker 1: little magic, like you know things change once you get
Speaker 1: your baby would change. I mean, everything changed, but gave
Speaker 1: me a newfound respect. I have one, right, My mom
Speaker 1: had four and at one point they didn't even have
Speaker 1: health insurance. They were on the food stamp program, and
Speaker 1: my mom did it pretty much herself because my dad
Speaker 1: was working full time. Honestly, when we reconciled it was
Speaker 1: back and forth. There were nice phone calls because this
Speaker 1: was also in the height of the pandemic, and then
Speaker 1: they were bad facetimes. There was one where she suddenly
Speaker 1: broke down and started insulting me and saying, like, you
Speaker 1: know how embarrassing it is to not have your daughter
Speaker 1: speak to you. You did all these horrible things. I
Speaker 1: had learned through therapy that when that happens, rather than
Speaker 1: get defensive, to just let her have her feelings. I
Speaker 1: listened and I said that must have been really hard
Speaker 1: for you, and that's on me, and I'm sorry. And
Speaker 1: all of her anger disappeared and I realized, oh, it
Speaker 1: wasn't anger, it was just hurt in disguise. But then
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, never mind, anyway, did you see
Speaker 1: these flowers? I planned it. It was instantly over. And
Speaker 1: it's that moment of empathy, not judgment, not defensiveness, and
Speaker 1: saying like that must have been hard for you. So
Speaker 1: in your book, you talk about at a young age
Speaker 1: of two, haven't been raped and hadn't realized it. And
Speaker 1: I've heard that so often, I know, isn't it so
Speaker 1: sad that it's so common. I was on a second
Speaker 1: date with a guy and he asked me to come
Speaker 1: up to his place, and you know, we made out
Speaker 1: mess around a little bit. You know, I let myself
Speaker 1: be tocchially, let him take my clothes off, and then
Speaker 1: he reached for a condom in the nightstand, clear signal
Speaker 1: for sex, right, and so I clearly said to him, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm not ready for sex, because you always say sorry,
Speaker 1: and he didn't listen to me, kept putting the condom on.
Speaker 1: So I said, no, really, I'm I'm not ready to
Speaker 1: have sex. I used clear language. But he didn't fight me.
Speaker 1: He just was so gentle. He like kissed me on
Speaker 1: the forehead. He was being so loving and tender, and
Speaker 1: then he just did it anyway. And I didn't fight
Speaker 1: back because he's twice my size. It's almost like I
Speaker 1: had to give in to protect myself. I was in
Speaker 1: his territory, in his apartment, and I was like, it
Speaker 1: already happened, even though I said no. So this is
Speaker 1: why my book is called making a Scene, because in
Speaker 1: a strange way, I didn't fight back because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to make a scene. I was trying to be
Speaker 1: the cool girl. I didn't want to be the crazy girl.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to say stop and then him to
Speaker 1: be like I didn't even want to do anyway. Do
Speaker 1: you think you're so hot? Crazy girl? And I didn't
Speaker 1: register it as rape because we're so used to think
Speaker 1: by It was a quite experience, even though my words
Speaker 1: were clear. Him having sex with me was quite. And
Speaker 1: then afterwards I like giggled and was nice to hide
Speaker 1: my discomfort. He wanted me to stay over, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, I can't. I had like my
Speaker 1: skincare products. And I made some stupid excuse and then
Speaker 1: he was like, okay, text me back, you know when
Speaker 1: you're home safe. So I texted him when I got home.
Speaker 1: I was like, home safe, Thanks for a great night.
Speaker 1: So if I were to accuse him of rape in
Speaker 1: the court of luck, he has these texts that thank
Speaker 1: you for a great night, all I have is my
Speaker 1: voice saying I'm not ready for sex. I think we
Speaker 1: we define rape as like, oh, it needs to be
Speaker 1: like violent and everything, but rape is just a clear
Speaker 1: disregard of consent. Yeah, I consented to making out. I did,
Speaker 1: I consented to take off. I totally get it. But
Speaker 1: that's why it wouldn't go over in court of course. Yes. Also,
Speaker 1: I had an orgasm and I is really ashamed to
Speaker 1: talk about that, and I've decided it was important to
Speaker 1: talk about that because then people are like, she should
Speaker 1: be grateful whatever. It's a hell of a subject. What
Speaker 1: people think is concern and not concern and no means no.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. We've talked about some really triggering issues,
Speaker 1: so we've got psychotherapists mena be standing by to help
Speaker 1: with some takeaways. I are you as I'm good, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for having me so me. Now, what
Speaker 1: advice would you offer to people who are sitting in
Speaker 1: deep discomfort of like being ostracized, shamed and all of that.
Speaker 1: The reason why being ostracized is so difficult for us
Speaker 1: is because being ostracized means being excluded and pushed out,
Speaker 1: and we need acceptance, and we need belonging and we
Speaker 1: need safety. When we don't have that, we develop our anxious, avoided,
Speaker 1: and disorganized attachments towards people because is already there is
Speaker 1: a lack of safety and belonging So the first thing
Speaker 1: I say is find your people, because those are the
Speaker 1: people when things get ugly, when things get heavy, you're
Speaker 1: going to need someone in your corner to say I
Speaker 1: got you, I have your back. The next thing that
Speaker 1: I really encourage people to do is lean on self validation.
Speaker 1: Rejection is so hard because we want to be light
Speaker 1: and you want to be accepted. Self validation says I
Speaker 1: can live in my truth even when it makes you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: But I'm comfortable with myself. And once you are comfortable
Speaker 1: with yourself, those voices no longer matter. And the last
Speaker 1: thing I will say is what's very unfortunate about speaking
Speaker 1: out is constant. You even brought this up in your story.
Speaker 1: People who you thought had your back are going to
Speaker 1: show you who they are. And that's heavy stuff. There
Speaker 1: is grief and loss when realize the people aren't supposed
Speaker 1: to be in your corner are dming you and sending
Speaker 1: you hateful, disgusting messages. The people who are supposed to
Speaker 1: be in your corner are making a smear campaign against you.
Speaker 1: They're calling you out and not calling you in that part.
Speaker 1: And the reason why that's just such a loss is
Speaker 1: because you thought so highly of this person. Now, I
Speaker 1: know I can't be in a supportive relationship with you,
Speaker 1: and that takes a lot to reconcile with. But I
Speaker 1: do encourage you to open your heart up to recognizing
Speaker 1: you will be able to now filter out who's for
Speaker 1: you and who's not, and who you need to protect
Speaker 1: yourself from men. You bring up a good point. I'm
Speaker 1: glad you brought this up. Grieving that is a is
Speaker 1: a step I didn't think about by the question you
Speaker 1: started out by saying, when you're in this place, it's
Speaker 1: important that you sort of find your people. So what
Speaker 1: happens when you seek out who you thought were sort
Speaker 1: of your people but then they're not you realize that
Speaker 1: they're really not and how isolating that might feel. Because
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of what led me to feel
Speaker 1: like I shouldn't be alive anymore. I almost felt like
Speaker 1: me being alive was doing a disservice to my community,
Speaker 1: and it was just such a lonely place to be.
Speaker 1: And I'm just you know, I I guess I can
Speaker 1: answer my own questions. That's actually found somebody, my friend
Speaker 1: Mollie from middle school, who's not Asian. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: she's a blonde, white girl. But she's known me since
Speaker 1: you know, you found your person and you sought out
Speaker 1: help and therapy and other you know, they might might
Speaker 1: not have been personal friends of yours, but other people
Speaker 1: who could symbolize safety and community. But I think Mina
Speaker 1: made a good point, and I think it just hit
Speaker 1: a nerve for you, just in the sense of being
Speaker 1: able to have that space to mourn and grieve the
Speaker 1: loss of people didn't well. And also we get the
Speaker 1: experiences so we can actually learn to be the thing
Speaker 1: that we actually want because we're not always showing up
Speaker 1: the way that we want to be showed up for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really feel like sometimes our experiences really kind of
Speaker 1: clean us up on that. It's a cycle, huge, huge,
Speaker 1: red table cycle. Absolutely so, Constance. We have a few
Speaker 1: of your fans who have some questions for you. Madeleine
Speaker 1: from Toronto says she relates to Constance. Hi, Madeleine, am,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be here, Constance. I just first
Speaker 1: want to say thank you. Seeing you in Crazy Rich
Speaker 1: Asians and was really the first time I felt accurately
Speaker 1: represented on screen. It really led me to feel more
Speaker 1: comfortable and proud of my identity as an Asian woman.
Speaker 1: I am grew up in a pretty white town and
Speaker 1: I didn't see people who looked like me around, not
Speaker 1: in school, not at the mall, and definitely not in
Speaker 1: mainstream media. And it really affected my self worth as
Speaker 1: an Asian woman. It made me feel like I wasn't
Speaker 1: good enough, so it made me want to assimilate and
Speaker 1: whitewash myself. Okay, you had somewhat of a similar experience
Speaker 1: throwing up in Richmond. Yes, completely. My high school mascot
Speaker 1: back then was a rebel holding a Confederate flag. That
Speaker 1: was our mascot. Whoa, whoa. That's deep. It has affected
Speaker 1: my mental health a lot. It's something that I am
Speaker 1: still working through, and so what I would like to
Speaker 1: know is what are some ways that you keep your
Speaker 1: mental health in check, especially after all of that you've
Speaker 1: been through. I mean regular therapy. I had to go
Speaker 1: every day at one point when things were really bad.
Speaker 1: Now I still go once a week. But even before that,
Speaker 1: I've read books like I've read a lot of Grin
Speaker 1: Hate Brown, We Love her Neck. I read a lot
Speaker 1: of self help, which amazing, but for some reason, there's
Speaker 1: like a stigma around self help books so much so
Speaker 1: that now they have to call it self improvement, as
Speaker 1: if asking for help is a horrible thing. It's not.
Speaker 1: I remember one time I googled how do I become
Speaker 1: a more forgiving person? Because I was having trouble for
Speaker 1: giving somebody and I've done that. One of the first
Speaker 1: things that came up with. When you're forgiving somebody, you're
Speaker 1: actually doing it more for yourself, so you're not holding
Speaker 1: that hatred in your heart. So just even taking the
Speaker 1: time to seek out those questions, that's what I do.
Speaker 1: I am continually trying to be a better person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I encourage people to start journaling and writing out your thoughts.
Speaker 1: What do you think about yourself? What do you think
Speaker 1: you deserve. Another thing is to start audio journaling, talking
Speaker 1: and recording yourself. And the reason why that can be
Speaker 1: important is because when you listen to yourself, you can
Speaker 1: start pinpointing the discrepancies and you're thinking. So you'll say
Speaker 1: to yourself, pattern, I can't believe I really thought that
Speaker 1: about myself. That's interesting. Yeah, you're able to really dissect
Speaker 1: what's living in your mind, because this is a problem
Speaker 1: we live in our head, and when we pull all
Speaker 1: that stuff out, we can use discernment and we can
Speaker 1: use judgment and have a more sound mind. Absolutely well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Madalie. Thank you so. Ebony from
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania says that she's been vocal about the problems going
Speaker 1: on at work. Hi. Hi, So I've been involved in
Speaker 1: a workplace where I've spoke up about situations that I
Speaker 1: felt like we're bias or prejudice or racist in some way.
Speaker 1: My question is, when I'm speaking about these things, how
Speaker 1: do I do that without the fear of feeling like
Speaker 1: I'm an angry black woman or I might even be
Speaker 1: canceled in the workplace. When I had sexual harassment going on,
Speaker 1: I should have reported it to h R. I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to do that at the time because I was
Speaker 1: so afraid that. I think going to the people whose
Speaker 1: job it is to hear those type of things and
Speaker 1: not make judgments about not to say you're the angry
Speaker 1: black woman, You're the angry Asian woman. Um. I think
Speaker 1: that's what would probably help. As a black woman, I
Speaker 1: completely relate to Ebony and this fear of being labeled
Speaker 1: the so complex because we cannot change the minds of
Speaker 1: people who are committed to seeing us through the lens
Speaker 1: of a stereotype, Ebony, I really encourage you to one
Speaker 1: find your community at that workplace, because if you're feeling that,
Speaker 1: chances are there are other people in a workplace who
Speaker 1: are feeling what you're feeling, but they're having the same
Speaker 1: concerns as you. I'm afraid the next thing I would say, Ebony,
Speaker 1: that hurt in her question, how can I do this
Speaker 1: without the fear of And we tell ourselves in order
Speaker 1: to progress, we have to remove emotion. You can do
Speaker 1: things even while you're afraid, right, And so I really
Speaker 1: encourage you to not allow fear to control your decision making.
Speaker 1: Despite being afraid, despite this being a risk, despite me
Speaker 1: feeling uncomfortable, my truth still matters. And in order for
Speaker 1: us to seek change, we do have to step out
Speaker 1: of our comfort zone. But I guarantee if we are
Speaker 1: willing to do that, sometimes we also recognize, well, that
Speaker 1: actually wasn't as scary as I thought it would be. Right,
Speaker 1: will also address the company and the workplace so that
Speaker 1: they can do better, because we want to be here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Michelle is joining us from Mount Vernon, Illinois and says
Speaker 1: you Constance helped her find her voice. Hey, Michelle, Hihad table. Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm an educator sexual abuse survivor. I was groomed into
Speaker 1: a love relationship with a trusted teacher starting when I
Speaker 1: was fourteen. He was twenty five years older than me,
Speaker 1: and I really did think that he loved me. I
Speaker 1: didn't even understand that I was abused until I was
Speaker 1: forty four years old. And when I spoke up about that,
Speaker 1: I was ostracized from my community. It hurt my children.
Speaker 1: It hurt me so much. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts going on then. I really didn't even see
Speaker 1: what the point was of living anymore. Yeah, and when
Speaker 1: I saw your post, I had to comment on it.
Speaker 1: Just your courage and your transparency alone was inspiring to
Speaker 1: me when you responded to me. To be heard, that's
Speaker 1: what survivors want, They just want to be heard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can still find myself going into that rabbit hole sometimes.
Speaker 1: What is the point of living when I take on
Speaker 1: that hatred? What is it that helps you keep moving forward? Now?
Speaker 1: For me, the thing that keeps me going is honestly
Speaker 1: people like you. Because I remember the time when I
Speaker 1: was going through this difficult time, how alone I felt.
Speaker 1: It's not the most pleasant experience sharing these traumatic events
Speaker 1: that happened to me, but I want to help people
Speaker 1: who are in the same situation. The more we talk
Speaker 1: about it, the more I hear your story and say
Speaker 1: you are not alone. You did not deserve to be
Speaker 1: shamed by your whole town. You are brave for coming
Speaker 1: forward with that. Michelle. I want you to know there
Speaker 1: are so many women who go through that. I have
Speaker 1: young women I went to school with that were groomed
Speaker 1: by teachers and that was kind of a normal thing
Speaker 1: that nobody was talking about. So thank you, Michelle for
Speaker 1: even bringing that subject up. Thank you for your courage.
Speaker 1: And you've helped so many people that you don't even
Speaker 1: realize exactly speak you're helping more people than people who
Speaker 1: are coming at you with their foolish there's just a
Speaker 1: louder voice. I believe that. Thank you, so, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you so final thoughts, just thank you for taking
Speaker 1: the time to listen. I don't feel like I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of people who wanted to take the time
Speaker 1: to listen, and you know it means a lot. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for trusting us with your story. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to apologize for crying, but I also do
Speaker 1: because I don't apologize. I am embarrassed still humanity, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but you're steal embarrassed. Don't be Thank you me and
Speaker 1: you gave us some really good stuff today. We appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Of course, thank you all for
Speaker 1: having me and for all of you out there. Constant
Speaker 1: new book Making a Scene is available right now, go
Speaker 1: get it, get it. Thank you guys, Thank you you guys. Amazing.
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm calm, I'm Olivia Constant. You inspired us
Speaker 1: to recreate your dress from Crazy Rich Asians. I remember
Speaker 1: Olivia's screaming, mom, look at me. It's Constant. So seeing
Speaker 1: you on screen was meaningful, but seeing you share your
Speaker 1: story is such a testament to giving yourself grace. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: that was so cute, so beautiful. I really liked it.
Speaker 1: Warms my heart to join the Red Table Talk family
Speaker 1: and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at
Speaker 1: facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by
Speaker 1: Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.