WEBVTT - "The World Hated Me" - Constance Wu Back From the Brink 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.720 Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.560 Red Tabletop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.440 Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.760 Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.040 Apple Podcasts. Crazy Rich Asians was huge. Fresh off the 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.319 Boat was his story. The star. Constance Wu was on 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.759 top of the world. Then with one tweet, it all 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.600 came crashing down. People were canceling me for being ungrateful 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.519 and ungraceful. I read these dms from an Asian actress. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.800 She called you a blight on the Asian community. The 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.479 world was saying you will never suffer as much as 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.800 you deserved to suffer. While I was unsafe at that point, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.560 the backlash drove her to attempt suicide. I was feeling 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.919 like I didn't deserve to live, feeling like I had 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.400 ruined everything for everyone, And maybe I did for some people, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.760 but people make mistakes. Right. For the first time in years, 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.080 Constance Wu was speaking out. I had swallowed the abuse 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.680 for so long. It was him rubbing my leg and 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.160 being like, your skin is so smooth, and then going further, 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.600 you talk about having been raped. Her response to those 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:20.720 who turned against do you feel the need to apologize anymore. Rude, nasty, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:26.800 mean spirited, arrogant, spoiled, brett ungrateful little bitch. I hope 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.080 you get fired and contract a terrible disease. These are 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.800 just a few of the harsh comments posted about our 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.760 special guest today. In twenty nineteen, Constance Woo was a 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.720 Hollywood darling. Her stellar performance in the smash hit Crazy 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.600 Rich Asians earned her a Golden Globe nomination, the first 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.760 for an Asian woman in fifty six years. She played 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.840 a hilariously strict mom and the popular sitcom Fresh off 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:59.640 the Boat and a stripper alongside j Low in Hustlers. Then, 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.160 after news broke that her sitcom had been renewed, Constance 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:07.000 and a tweet that ignited a viral firestorm. So upset 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.720 right now that I'm literally crying. When a fan tweeted, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.640 congrats when your renewal great news, Constance replied with no, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.280 it's not. The backlash was swift and unrelenting. Many of 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.120 Constance's millions of fans turned against her that a matter 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:28.360 of days. Constance, who was once celebrated and adored, was attacked, vilified, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.920 and ostracized. For three years, she disappeared from social media 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.600 and pulled back from public life. At her lowest point, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:43.000 Constance attempted suicide. Constance Wu because here for her first 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.840 in depth interview since the release of her highly anticipated 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:58.560 memoir Making a Scene. Hi, welcome for having thank you, Hello, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.000 I have a seat. We know very well here at 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.960 this table what it is like to get hit with backlash. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.040 So yeah, we understand. Let's start with what you've called 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.480 careless tweets and just set the scene for us. It's 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.840 actually hard for me to talk about about getting emotional, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:23.680 but you know, it's it's funny because people were basically 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.440 canceling me for being ungrateful and ungraceful, and they were saying, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.280 you know, I didn't think about the other people's jobs 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.200 on the show, and um, how selfish that was, and 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.160 how I was like behaving like a diva. And what 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.040 people didn't realize that during my first couple of years 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:43.120 on Fresh off the Boat, I was sexually harassed and 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.920 I was intimidated and I was threatened all the time. 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.920 This producer, he is an Asian American, and the thing 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.880 that was most painful was he was so derogatory and 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.440 harassing towards me but because this show was sort of 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.600 a beacon of representation for Asian Americans and I sort 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.680 of became a symbol of representation. I didn't want to 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.280 sully the one show with sexual harassment claims against the 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.080 one Asian American man who was doing all this better 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.440 work for the community. So I think that's sort of 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.960 what happened. When I, you know, tweeted that stuff, it 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.159 seemed out of character if you don't know me and 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.680 don't know all the pain and abuse I had to 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.440 swallow for years. And the reason I'm crying now is 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:35.720 because you sort of have to be honest about it 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.479 as it happens, so it doesn't come out later the 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:45.200 way it does. You mentioned sexual harassment. Was that happening 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.600 on set? And it happened on set things like show 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.520 me show me this friend, I want to see if 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.919 her or not like that kind of thing. Constance writes 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.440 about her experience with the Asian American producer who was 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.560 her boss. He told me the way he preferred my 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.160 hair guys like long hair. Told me I looked better 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.200 in short skirts and should wear them more often while 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.560 you still can, he'd say, with a smirk. He kept 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.960 tabs on all areas of my life. She says. He 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.159 would send her messages after hours. Sometimes he texted me 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:24.080 late at night requesting selfies. It made me feel uncomfortable 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.840 and I didn't want to, so I made excuses like, gosh, sorry, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.880 I hate selfies. They made me feel so narcissistic. He 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.760 thought that was stupid. It's not a big deal, he 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:42.680 told me later, Lots of actresses send me selfies. Yeah. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.680 I also felt guilty because I felt like I was 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.080 playing into it because at that time, this is my 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.040 first ever big TV show. I gotta pretend I'm part 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.360 of the boys club. I gotta pretend I'm cool with 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.240 this talk. I'm like and I would just say, oh 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.000 my god, there's such a dick, like get over yourself. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.679 But the actual touching of me, it only happened once, 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:05.120 and it was quote unquote not that bad compared to 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.880 other stories I've heard. But the point is it shouldn't 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:14.640 have happened at all. He was basically pressuring me to 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.920 go to a basketball game. I really don't want to 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.440 row too. I finally relented, and then him telling me 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.440 to dress cute, and then it was him rubbing my 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.360 leg and being like, your skin is so smooth, and 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.400 me being like stop, don't do that, and then him 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.760 going further and putting his hand over my crotch, you know, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.240 and try to like graze and like turn me on 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.440 or something, and then me being like, dude, stop, that's 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.520 not cool, which pissed him off, and then he ignored 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.160 me for five minutes. And I mean it was over jeans, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.440 so it's like still still, yeah, you don't do that. 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.680 If somebody touches your blooe over sweater, they're still trying 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.400 to touch your book. It doesn't it doesn't even matter. 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.440 I spoke up to a couple of people who I 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.440 thought were kind like friends and allies, and they were like, 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.359 nobody encouraged me to go to HR though, because they 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.919 didn't want to show to be canceled. And then several 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.600 years later, somebody encouraged me to report it to HR, 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.640 but I was like, nobody's going to believe me. I 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.120 don't have evidence. But I regret that, and she was right, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.440 I should have reported it to h R because that's 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.920 their job. Doesn't even mean any action is going to happen, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.760 but it means that there's a record of this happening, 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.640 and that is helpful for future people. And the thing 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.800 that was really interesting was too black and white women. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:40.600 He displayed the utmost respect and deference. And I've since 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.520 heard accounts from other Asian actresses who have been like, oh, yeah, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.280 me too, this happened to me with this guy too. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.280 It is an interesting phenomenon that makes you feel quite 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.560 alone because if I were to talk about this, like 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.120 if you were my colleague on set, it would be 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.280 baffling to you because she would have treated you the 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:06.600 difference respect. To see your abuser being buddy buddy with everybody, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.160 it feels like a betrayal. Absolutely, I understand that one. 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.840 So was this part of the reason why you made 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.320 that tweet? Then it was a perfect storm of many things. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.280 First of all, I had swallowed the abuse for so 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.640 long that producer and I didn't talk for like the 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.560 remaining three or four years of the show, so I 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.040 thought it was a chapter behind. I never have to 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.280 bring it up. I never have to sullute the reputation 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.199 of the show that's a beacon for Asian American representation, 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.360 and I really wanted a clean slate that didn't hold 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:40.559 so many memories of intimidation and fear and Also, we 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.680 were told the show likely wouldn't be remute. The last 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.720 episode of the prior season had been written as a 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.560 series finale. My movie Crazy Rich Asians opened right before 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.240 they decided to renew Fresh off the Boat, So it 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.000 was sort of a bad look to cancel the one 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:03.360 Asian American sitcom when Crazy Asians brought up this renewed conversation. 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.679 And so I think the news just caught me by 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.520 surprise and I had to drop out of the projects. 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.200 I was looking forward to the clean slate. I was 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.800 looking forward to. Your expectations were dashed. I actually felt 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.959 lied to. But the thing is I shouldn't have done 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:23.160 it on Twitter, and the people don't know you. All 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:28.080 they know is, oh my goodness, she complaining and you 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.120 were just Crazy Rich Asians was huge, and we have 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.600 this show that represents she thinks she's a big movie star. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.200 For the information people had, the public had, of course, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.280 it looked like that. So I don't fault people for 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.360 thinking that. But Asian Americans were the one who kind 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.360 of piled onto me. So after your tweets, a former 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.760 colleague had messaged you saying nothing you could ever do 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:58.160 would make up for your atrocious behavior and disgusting and gratitude. You, Sully, 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.760 the one shining beacon of whole for Asian Americans. You've 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:06.200 become a blight on the Asian community. I read these 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.000 d m s from an Asian actress, somebody who should 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:13.800 have been my ally, and I felt like nothing I 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:18.960 could ever do would be enough. I felt like the 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.080 only thing that would prove to her that I felt 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.360 as bad as she thought I deserved to feel, would 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.400 would be if I died. I felt like even that 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.200 might not be enough, because I felt like the world 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.520 was saying, you will never suffer as much as you 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:42.240 deserve to suffer. You deserve to pay for this and 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.880 be punished for this. Can you take us through how 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:50.439 you ended up on on the ledge of your shift 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:56.439 floor balcony with a blanket. It was the weirdest detail 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.120 in my mind. I think I wanted to like jump 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.280 with a comfort jet as if I was a child. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.240 It was so weird. It was after reading these d 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.920 m s and I just got in this state, like 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.400 my palms are still itching when I think about it. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:15.400 In her book, Constance reveals what happened after reading those messages. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.840 Her d ms made me feel helpless and desperate, my 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.080 heart full of sharp attacks. Why wouldn't she believe my 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.840 remorse that I heard as badly as she wanted me to. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.600 My head spinning, I realized I needed a wound to 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.520 prove it, to prove that I hurt as bad as 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.840 everyone said I deserved to hurt. And it couldn't be 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.280 a little wound. It had to be the biggest wound 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.760 in the world for it to be enough. And that's 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.400 how I ended up clutching the balcony railing of my 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.320 fifth floor apartment and staring wildly down at the New 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:53.640 York City street below. Wow. A friend who had come 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.080 to check on me pulled me over from climbing over 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.760 the ledge and dragged into the elevator and took me 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.880 into a cab and took me to a psychiatric emergency 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.760 room where they checked me in, and I slept the 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.000 night on a cot in the waiting room in a 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.960 psychiatric or in New York City under observation. And then 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.240 there were two councilors the next morning who talked to me. 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.640 And then I had to be in therapy with a 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.640 psychiatrist and a psychologist every day for a while. That 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.320 you know it was helpful. I needed it. I was 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.240 unsafe at that point. Yeah, I was in a mental 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:35.800 place of just beating myself and so much shame and 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.160 feeling like I didn't deserve to live, feeling like the 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.960 world hated me, feeling like I had ruined everything for everyone, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.080 and maybe I did for some people. But you know, 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.559 people make mistakes, absolutely, and I'm sorry. I hate that. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.320 I'm crying. I can't help it. I like it makes sense. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.200 I know, growing up in the limelight, we kind of 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.160 are like, oh whatever. We kind of try to bush 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.840 it off, like people say things, people this and that, 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.520 and we we try to normalize it. But it's not 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:10.880 normal for millions of people to be hateful towards one person, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.040 and it shocks the nervous system, and it shocks the mind, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:15.920 and it shocks the heart, and it shocks the soul. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:21.280 It's not normal and it hurts. So it was those 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.120 hurtful d m s that was on top of everything else. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:32.240 Everything ms were sort of the pushed you and that's 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.480 what got you to that place of possibly harming yourself. 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.960 And you're right, it's not normal. I have been punished 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:46.120 and mocked, and you know, there was an event several 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.959 months later. There's this organization called CAPE and they do 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:54.000 this gala every year for Asians and they wanted me 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.959 to come because they wanted to celebrate the show and 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.080 the kids on the show. And at that time, there's 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.480 so much controversy around me that I was like, if 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.199 I go, people are just gonna want to talk about 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.599 the tweets, and like, I love my kids on the 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.640 show so much, I want this to be a moment 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.160 for them to celebrate. And also I told them I 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.400 don't want anybody to make fun of it because I'm 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.720 still in a very raw place about it, like I'm 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.520 not ready to be mocked for it. They didn't know 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.760 I had a suicide attempt, but I expressed that, like 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.920 I can't deal with that. They promised me they said, no, no, no, no, 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.680 we love Constance. It will only be warm energy and 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.120 positive vibes towards her. So I was like, okay, okay, 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.360 I'll go. And then they sat me like in the 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.440 front row and like had all these cameras on me, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.760 and within ten minutes, the host of the show like 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.440 made a crack at me, and I was sitting there 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.560 alone trying not to cry in a public setting, and 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.480 the whole audience was like, Oh, they had promised they 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.120 wouldn't mock me, and they did it right off the bat. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.600 It almost got like they were setting me, and it 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.320 truly felt like a betrayal from the Asian American community. Yeah. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.640 A couple of months prior to that, I was in 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.360 the emergency room. Yeah, and the host of that seem 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.360 he did the right thing and he apologized and it 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.920 was a sincere apology. I just want to say, I 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:21.480 feel like the reaction wouldn't have been as visceral if 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:28.160 there were more representation beforehand. But I think you hit 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.520 it on the nose. I think it's because it's because 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.840 of the last there of people are like, oh, this 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:40.000 is our yeah, exactly. So let me explain to you 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.239 why the Asian American community was so angry about Constance 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.360 Woo's tweets. Fresh off the Boat was the first Asian 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.960 American family sitcom that we had had in twenty years, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.560 and it was huge for the community. So when she 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.960 tweets that she's very unhappy about the fact that the 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.200 show was being renewed for its final season, people really 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:08.040 felt that not only was she being ungrateful, or acting 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.800 like a prima donna, but that it was a betrayal 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.320 to the Asian American community. Because there are so few 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.280 Asian American stars, there is incredible pressure put on these 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.600 actors like Constance Wood to be perfect. When they make 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.040 a mistake, it seems like a catastrophe because we don't 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.240 have anything else to fill in the void. And because 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:33.040 she was representing Asian Americans, she wasn't allowed to have 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.360 an emotion in this way. All those people who bullied 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.120 her said, you know what, you don't deserve to have 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.920 a big feeling. This is probably going to be a 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:46.400 moment of reflection for Asian America about who the real 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.720 target of our anger is and should be. Doesn't Constance 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.360 Woo and every person don't we deserve to quit our 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.920 jobs when we're being treated poorly, or just because we 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:04.600 don't want to do our jobs anymore? I think too, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.920 when it comes from your own community, it's even more painful. 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.080 I don't want to deny the fact that there is 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.600 a community responsibility, because there absolutely is, but you've got 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.959 to have grace and compassion as well. I think moments 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:25.040 like this are an opportunity rather than engaging in judgment 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.440 just to engage in curiosity. I wonder what made somebody 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.040 do something so out of character, And it doesn't mean 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.040 that you're validating their behavior, because yeah, I probably shouldn't 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.080 have tweeted that stuff. What do you feel that your 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.800 Asian community is feeling about you now? Do you feel 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.439 like they're still angry with you? I feel like they 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:50.040 are avoiding me. M M. I feel the disapproval, but 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:55.000 rather than being blatant, the silence of how much people 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:01.040 reached out to me before pre tweet versus post, And 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.800 you can tell the silence has an effect. We need 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:13.160 to hold each other accountable, but with support. Each other accountable, 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.399 but with the support, it's sort of like you weren't 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.639 your best and I know you can be better, and 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:23.240 I'm here for you better, rather than like, oh, I'm 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.600 not touching that, which is sort of how I feel 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.240 these days. Do you feel the need to apologize anymore? 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.639 I think I'm good with apologies. I think I'm done 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:39.000 with shame. I think that I have done more work 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.240 than most people have done because I've kind of been 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.920 forced to, you know, more work on yourself. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.480 And I think the people who still want me to 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.320 apologize and to feel remorse. Are the people like that 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.680 Asian actress who say that nothing I ever do will 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.360 be enough. That's actually yours, that's not about me anymore. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:04.199 Who did do look towards for support or comfort in 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.000 your circle? Well, I mean that was also a part 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.760 of it is that I think a lot of my 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.440 close friends kind of disapproved of it too, which made 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.000 me feel even more isolated. Actually, only like two Asians 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.680 reached out to me to check if I was okay. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.200 What about your family? Oh, that's a whole other thing, 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.240 because that was at a time that I wasn't speaking 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.040 to my mom and I hadn't spoken to my mom 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.119 and like four or five years, complete silence, like not 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.840 even emails. That's something I kept private, that estrangement from 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.439 her because I was embarrassed of it. But at the 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.919 time of those tweets, I was not talking to her. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.080 I was still very close to my dad and she 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.920 doesn't talk to my father since they're divorce. But when 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.639 that happened, she called my dad was like, hey, is 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.880 she okay? Can you check on her? And my dad 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.440 telling me that kind of broke my heart but also 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.600 made me feel loved in a way, can you tell 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.640 us what caused the a separation between you and your 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.199 mom and the first place talk about that. It was 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.320 when I first became famous with Fresh off the Boat. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:13.080 I didn't know how to handle fame and it threw 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.920 me into a tailspin. And I do think that I, 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.880 like many daughters do, I took it out on my mom. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.040 I mean sometimes she reacted in ways that were very paranoid, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.560 telling me like what I shouldn't shouldn't do. But I 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.440 internalized it and almost like weaponized it against her. I 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.399 wasn't a great daughter at that time, and that was 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.679 I think maybe around the time I was like four 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.720 or five months partnant was when I reached out to her. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.520 And then of course when I had my baby, everything changed. 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:51.400 Yeah that'll do it. Yeah, yeah, I know with mom. Mom, 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.359 when I had my children, we had a huge healing 0:20:54.600 --> 0:21:00.200 between us as well, you know her coming into gambihood, 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.119 you finally get it. I saw that little glint, that 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.200 little magic, like you know things change once you get 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.200 your baby would change. I mean, everything changed, but gave 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.360 me a newfound respect. I have one, right, My mom 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.919 had four and at one point they didn't even have 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.800 health insurance. They were on the food stamp program, and 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.120 my mom did it pretty much herself because my dad 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.119 was working full time. Honestly, when we reconciled it was 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.080 back and forth. There were nice phone calls because this 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.000 was also in the height of the pandemic, and then 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.520 they were bad facetimes. There was one where she suddenly 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.720 broke down and started insulting me and saying, like, you 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.040 know how embarrassing it is to not have your daughter 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.560 speak to you. You did all these horrible things. I 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:50.520 had learned through therapy that when that happens, rather than 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.080 get defensive, to just let her have her feelings. I 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.520 listened and I said that must have been really hard 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.879 for you, and that's on me, and I'm sorry. And 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.160 all of her anger disappeared and I realized, oh, it 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.160 wasn't anger, it was just hurt in disguise. But then 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.480 she was like, oh, never mind, anyway, did you see 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.080 these flowers? I planned it. It was instantly over. And 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.560 it's that moment of empathy, not judgment, not defensiveness, and 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.600 saying like that must have been hard for you. So 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.760 in your book, you talk about at a young age 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:32.080 of two, haven't been raped and hadn't realized it. And 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.480 I've heard that so often, I know, isn't it so 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.000 sad that it's so common. I was on a second 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.480 date with a guy and he asked me to come 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.040 up to his place, and you know, we made out 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.679 mess around a little bit. You know, I let myself 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.280 be tocchially, let him take my clothes off, and then 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.280 he reached for a condom in the nightstand, clear signal 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:58.119 for sex, right, and so I clearly said to him, sorry, 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.639 I'm not ready for sex, because you always say sorry, 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.639 and he didn't listen to me, kept putting the condom on. 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:07.439 So I said, no, really, I'm I'm not ready to 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:12.719 have sex. I used clear language. But he didn't fight me. 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.879 He just was so gentle. He like kissed me on 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.159 the forehead. He was being so loving and tender, and 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.600 then he just did it anyway. And I didn't fight 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.800 back because he's twice my size. It's almost like I 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.360 had to give in to protect myself. I was in 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.879 his territory, in his apartment, and I was like, it 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:37.119 already happened, even though I said no. So this is 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.679 why my book is called making a Scene, because in 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:41.880 a strange way, I didn't fight back because I didn't 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:43.800 want to make a scene. I was trying to be 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:46.480 the cool girl. I didn't want to be the crazy girl. 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:48.960 I didn't want to say stop and then him to 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.439 be like I didn't even want to do anyway. Do 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.119 you think you're so hot? Crazy girl? And I didn't 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:59.120 register it as rape because we're so used to think 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.359 by It was a quite experience, even though my words 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:05.840 were clear. Him having sex with me was quite. And 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:10.639 then afterwards I like giggled and was nice to hide 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:12.720 my discomfort. He wanted me to stay over, and I 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:14.359 was like, oh no, I can't. I had like my 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.840 skincare products. And I made some stupid excuse and then 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.240