WEBVTT - #11 Christina 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.160 Hello, Hey, do you have a copy of TV Guide? 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:13.480 No? 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.840 No, why I can't find my copy? And I was 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:25.080 wondering what was on TV? Don't don't you remember? 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.400 Don't you remember? Don't you don't? 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:27.560 Wait? 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.840 Wait, don't you remember calling people up on the phone. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:31.920 I do remember that, Yeah. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.200 Just just to see what was on. I remember calling 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.280 on my aunt Tilly because I was too I was 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.480 too lazy to get up off the couch to look 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.199 for the TV Guide, so I just called her up. 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.600 Who woman could hardly walk and she had to search 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:53.960 around for a TV guide to go. I'm GIMILTT Media. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:01:03.240 I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight today's episode, Christina. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.000 This is the best of all possible worlds. My father 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.639 was fond of saying. The words were spoken contentedly, often 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.360 while reclining in a barca lounger belt buckle undone after 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.800 a large meal of baked beans and lamb chops. But 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.839 what did my father know of other worlds? He'd held 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.320 down the same job and was married to the same 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:37.840 woman for decades plus. He hardly left the house. But 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.680 what he did know was that this world had one 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.440 thing over all of those other worlds. It existed for 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:53.360 my father. That was enough to make it best. I, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.080 on the other hand, am not one over so easily. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:57.080 Sure. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.560 Existence is a nice quality, a fine quality, but going 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.960 so far as to call a world that contains both 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.200 soul patches and puddles the best possible anything seems a 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:13.639 little extreme, and so imagining other worlds the same, only 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.720 better is just too irresistible. In spite of the pain 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:24.480 such thinking inevitably invites. Why don't we start from the beginning. Okay, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.000 this is Christina, and like me, she knows this world 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.680 can use a few tweaks. Overall, she says her life 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.160 hasn't been a bad one, It's just not the one 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.600 she was meant to live. She's worked as a waitress, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.760 a receptionist, as a home care worker, the kinds of 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:45.440 jobs you do, but not necessarily the kind you dream about. Lately, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.800 she's been helping run her husband's company. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.520 It's a disc golfing backpack company. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.480 Say sorry, say that again. It's a what disc golf 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.280 backpack is? What is disc golf? 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.880 It's like ball golf, but instead of balls and clubs, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:01.720 you have frisbees. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.480 Oh, when you say ball golf, you're talking about golf. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:05.359 Golf like a regular golf. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.119 Yeah, okay, I've never heard it referred to distinguished as 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:10.000 ball golf, but I. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.440 Well, only disc golfers call it ball golf. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.640 So, but how do you how do you get a 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:15.680 frisbee in a golf hole? 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.040 No, it's actually not a hole, it's a basket. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:24.000 Oh my goodness. Before she started pining after better worlds, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.640 Christina was focused on just one, the world of small 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:28.840 town western Canada. 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.880 I lived with my mom. She was a single mom. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.080 My dad left when I was around one, and my 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.440 mom was diagnosed with schizophrenia. 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.600 Christina was just a kid, so a lot of it's 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.080 now fuzzy, but she remembers bits of things, her mom 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.960 going off her meds and beginning to hear voices, her 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:48.920 mom waking her in the middle of the night and 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.240 saying they had to leave right away. She remembers running 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.720 with her mom down dark streets. 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.880 She started becoming violent and she would just you know, 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.160 hit me with the phone handle, or this one time 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.080 she came after me with a high heeled shoe. There's 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.440 no food in the house. She wouldn't do laundry, like 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.960 the dirty clothes would pile up in the living room, like, 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.640 I remember this massive mound of dirty clothes, and I 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.640 remember this kid made fun of me for having dirty pants, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.760 and so I started stealing clothes just so I could 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.480 have clean clothes to go to school. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.960 When you were a kid trying to survive on your own, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.920 the unthinkable can start to seem normal. To escape her house, 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.040 Christina took a job caring for two boys not much 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.040 younger than herself. She became a twelve year old live 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:39.680 in nanny. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.159 So I ended up moving in with this family and 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.920 looking after the boys. They paid me a little bit, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.320 and I quit school to be a nanny. 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.520 When she stopped showing up at school, social services removed 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.720 Christina from the nannying house, but instead of bringing her 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.880 back to her mom, they took her to a fi 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:06.640 her home. She was sent to live with an older 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.840 couple and their grandson. They lived on the fancier side 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.839 of town in a house decorated with candleholders and decorative pistols. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.640 The foster mother was a woman named Isabelle. Her grandson, David, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.320 was the golden boy who could do no wrong. From 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.320 day one, Christina struggled for Isabelle's approval. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.920 My foster mother and I kind of butted heads a 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.119 little bit or a lot. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.159 Although Isabelle was only an inch taller, Christina was scared 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.680 of her. Her foster mother communicated through rules and punishments. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.440 She was very strict. I was five minutes late for curfew. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.880 I would be grounded for a month. It felt like 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.800 I was always grounded and afraid all the time, and 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:58.159 kind of walking on eggshells, and yeah, just feeling always 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.920 really intimidated and scared. I was always scared. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.920 And when she got scared, Christina would go silent. As 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:18.600 a result, she never once stood up to Isabelle. It 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.479 was while living in Isabelle's world that another better world 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.840 presented itself to Christina, a world with rules that were 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.159 easy to understand, a world where someone was always keeping 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.040 score and keeping things fair. This was the eighty four 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.719 x fifty foot world of a basketball court. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.880 I can't explain how much I was obsessed with basketball. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.960 I would practice at like six in the morning at 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.760 the school. I would practice on weekends. I'd watch the 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.400 NBA games with Clyde the Glide and Charles Barkley, and 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.160 then my name was in the paper a few times. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.719 I think I have some paper clippings of like high scoring. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.600 I loved, loved, loved basketball. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.599 On the basketball court and it was never scared. It 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.800 was a place where, for the first time in her life, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.880 she felt in control and confident. Her foster brother, David, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.720 a popular jock, spent hours helping her get better. She 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.240 joined a team and quickly became a high scorer. Eventually 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:16.560 she was made team captain. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.920 They would always put me inside, like I would always 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:19.840 have to guard the post. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.480 When Christina talks about basketball, she lights up, and I 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.360 want to encourage her to keep talking by asking questions. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.680 But my only real knowledge of basketball comes from watching 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.760 the Harlem Globetrotters. I was in my thirties before I 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.320 learned it was illegal to bring stilts onto the court, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.280 so my questions are limited. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.080 We tall no only five to six. But I guess 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:47.920 I kind of had this unrealistic view of myself where 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:52.520 I thought I was taller than I was because off court, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.320 I was like kind of meek, and I'd just follow 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.000 the crowd and I wouldn't create any waves. I didn't 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.840 really have an opinion, but on the court, I was 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:03.800 a force to be reckoned with. It was like the 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.520 only time where I felt powerful. 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.720 It was around this time that a plan began to 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.680 take shape. If she kept practicing and kept winning, she'd 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.520 get a basketball scholarship. Christina knew that was her only 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.240 hope of getting into college. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.000 I wanted to get out of that circle of welfare 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:33.640 and illness and living from paycheck to paycheck and just 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:34.839 feeling just being poor. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.600 It sucked, which brings us to the moment that thirty 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.520 years later, Christina still can't stop thinking about. She'd just 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.679 come home from school when Isabelle called her into the kitchen, 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.600 sat her down at the table, and presented her with 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:50.400 an ultimatum. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.679 She said, you have to get your grades up. You 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.800 have to work harder at school, and so in order 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.440 for me to be able to play basketball following year, 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.080 which would have been eleventh grade, I had to have 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.600 an average of a bee in every class. But I 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:13.360 was really bad at math and chemistry, and I didn't 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:17.160 make it. I wasn't allowed to play basketball. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.920 What she remembers most about that time was watching a 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:26.240 lot of TV and overeating and the chores. After forcing 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.800 Christina to quit the basketball team, Isabelle handed her chores 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.920 that felt like ironic punishments from the Judy Bloom version 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.640 of Dante's Inferno. She had to bake cookies for the family, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.560 but because of her weight gain, she wasn't allowed to 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.560 eat any, and when she dusted the house, Isabelle instructed 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.280 her to pick up David's basketball trophies, dust each one, 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.920 and dust the shelf underneath. All the while, Christina felt 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.480 her loss acutely of basketball and the better world had promised. 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.480 She took something from me that I that I've not 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:02.920 been able to get back. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:05.440 What is that thing? 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:07.360 Yeah, and I don't even know. I don't. I don't. 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.160 When I say that out loud, it sounds ridiculous, but 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:17.480 it feels like that passion for something it dashed this 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:18.959 huge dream that I had. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:30.200 For my life. Christina still wonders why why did Isabelle 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.160 take away basketball, the only thing that really mattered to her, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.920 that would have given her a better life, But all 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.160 these years she's been too afraid to ask. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.240 She's going to be ninety five in July. The thought 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.920 of talking to her about it petrifies me a little bit, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.760 like there's still a part of me that is scared 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:56.280 of her, which is ridiculous. And what do you want, 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.240 I think, yeah, I think I want to know, like 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.840 why she made my life so difficult, if it was 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:08.120 just to break me down, if she had some kind 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.000 of thing against. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.000 Me, And what do you want to hear her say? 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.319 I guess I want to just hear her say that 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.760 she just genuinely wanted me to have better grades. But 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:29.280 I know that that's just such bs. For whatever reason, 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.880 I've let go of a lot of things that have happened, 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.839 but for whatever reason, this one thing, the basketball thing, 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.520 not letting me play basketball. I'm having such a hard 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.200 time letting go of that and forgiving her. I want 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:42.679 to let it go. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.319 So you want to go talk to her? 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:46.319 Yeah? 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.640 You, and you want me to come? Yes, I get 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.240 really mealy mouthed when I'm in the same room as 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.319 like strong willed, scary older women. I'll tell you that 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:57.680 right now, I'm not going to be much help. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.480 So we're doing it. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.080 It sounds like we're doing it all right. We're gonna 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:13.280 go talk to that scary lady after the break. How 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.839 much mincing can a Meilie mouth mince? When a Melie 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:20.439 mouth meets a menacing miss who writes this stuff? I 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:28.520 guess I do once I gave Christina my word that 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.479 i'd help, I approached CEO and Gimblet founder Alex Bloomberg 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.240 to ask if he could fly me to the British 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.520 Columbian interior to confront a ninety five year old woman 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.040 about something she may or may not have said some 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.120 thirty years ago, to which Alex asked, why are you 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.720 always standing just outside the door whenever I get out 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.520 of the bathroom? And I said it was a coincidence, 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.319 although I might have pronounced it Quinki dink to be playful. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.680 And he asked how long this trip would take me 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.080 out of the office, and I said a week, and 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.720 he said to take longer if I needed it. So 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.640 I was off to Canada. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:22.920 Tail de nos ai, are you to? 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.040 I meet Christina and her husband Levi at the Colonna 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.559 Airport in British Columbia. They'd just flown in from Portland, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.640 and the look of trust on their faces is daunting. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.520 When meeting new people, especially people I'm about to help. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.160 I'm more comfortable with looks of skepticism or anticipatory disappointment. 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:47.240 Trust was disconcerting, Yes I have. It was an hour 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.560 and a half drive to Isabelle's. So we made our 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.480 way to the airport rental desk to get a car 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:54.440 Goldstein G. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:55.079 O L D. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.120 And I just asked what that is there? 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.120 Oh, it's just a we're doing a radio story. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.240 So I've just do you mind turning that off and 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:01.920 put away? 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.000 Yeah? If I couldn't even stand up to the car 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.120 rental clerk, what hope did I have of helping Christina 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.719 stand up to Isabelle. 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.280 It's hot in here, I want to. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.160 Say, it's been well over two years since Christina's seen Isabelle. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.800 She's feeling anxious, so I try to keep the mood positive. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.320 I bet the thrift stores are really good around here. 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.720 I point out foreign license plates, and because we're in 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:43.800 a foreign country, there are many pretty Have you guys 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.840 been watching this show called Little Big Lies or big 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:58.400 little Lies or little big Lies? Well set, I think so. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.400 Isabelle lives on the ground floor of a squat apartment 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:14.520 block mostly inhabited by seniors. We wait. When no one answers, 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:24.600 we ring the bell. The door opens. I heard you 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:30.120 the first time, Isabelle says. Christina smiles in spite of herself. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.320 She can't help but get a kick out of Isabelle. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.320 Isabelle peers up at us from behind her walker, Christina's husband, 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.880 Levi makes introductions, isabel Hi, how are you doing? 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:42.920 Oh? 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:43.640 That? 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.560 Oh? Is me reacting to Isabelle's handshake, a surprisingly powerful 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.160 thing that yanks me through the doorframe. Although a diminutive 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:56.240 woman with white, puffy hair and wirerim glasses, Isabelle's just 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.600 established herself as the alpha. Nice to meet you, Nice. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:00.680 To meet you. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.800 Okay, you seem to be doing great. 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.680 I'm doing not bad for my age, I guess. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.840 Isabelle's apartment is tidy and dim, decorated with candles that 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.040 haven't been lit in years. We slowly follow her down 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.840 a narrow hallway to her living room, where she seats 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.520 herself in a faded blue mechanized armchair. On the drive over, 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:31.200 Christina mentioned that Isabelle is legally blind, but I misremember 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.920 this as Isabelle being legally deaf, so I compliment her 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.240 on how well she's following along. Well, I'm not talking 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.080 very loud, and you you've been able to hear everything. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.520 So I did say there's nothing wrong with my ears right. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:47.200 And you did. 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:47.240 Not. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.240 To recover from this faux pas, I offer Isabelle a 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.480 chance to feel my face run her hands through my beard, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.400 which is something I think I saw done in the mirror. 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.240 If ever, you want to feel my stubble, or I. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.879 Don't go running around feeling beards. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.320 I decide that now's as good a time as any 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.760 to offer around the airport treats I bought during my layover. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.400 I brought some refreshments. Since I don't want to put 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.640 Isabelle out by asking for a party tray, I scooted 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.840 my travel socks and underwear to the side of my 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:26.440 backpack and proffer them straight from the bag, some chocolate 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:27.919 covered nuts and such. 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:29.679 Not right now, thank you? 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:38.640 No, okay, I'll leave them in the bag. If I've 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.360 learned anything from my work in the business of forcing 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.840 people to ask terrifying questions, it was that it's always 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.040 best to just get it over with. Ask the question 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.639 why did you ruin my life? Get the answer, and 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.760 head back to the hotel bar to eat the juiciest, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.399 fattiest tea bone steak that Gimlet Media's fourteen dollars per 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.760 dim allows. But staging is everything I need to be 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.080 off hand subtle. Do you Christina, do you have anything 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:25.280 that you you want to ask about, or Christina looks 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.560 down at her hands and tightens her lips. Of course 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.840 I understand her hesitation. Isabelle is even more intimidating in 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.400 person than Christina made her out, and nothing about being 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.919 here can possibly feel much like coming home. The walls 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.760 and shelves are loaded with photos of Isabelle's children, grandchildren, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.680 and great grandchildren, but there isn't a single photo anywhere 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.760 of her only foster child, Christina. To break the silence, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.080 I ask Isabelle why she originally took Christina into her 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.399 home in the first place. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.639 And one of my children left a child for me 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:04.800 to raise my grandson. Yeah, so I thought life was 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.240 just my husband and I. We were both older. It 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.760 would be kind of very dull for him. So I 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.679 thought that having someone else around the house would make 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:20.639 make it a little more homey for him. But I 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.399 hadn't chosen Christina. Christina was brought to me and it 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.120 was just she was just there. This wild looking thing 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.880 seemed a little bit of training to live in a home, 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.159 so obviously she hadn't been brought up with anything. I 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.639 just thought any child living under my roof had to 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:40.640 be taught. 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.480 Something meaning like what kind of things like you mean 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.560 normal like rules and. 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.320 Well rules, yeah, the rules. I don't think that our 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:49.640 rules were terribly. 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.000 Strict, really, I mean I felt like they were strict. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:59.560 Well maybe you thought so, that most kids do, but 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.280 there were the the same rule as my kid's head. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.119 Christina hesitates. You can see it's hard for her to 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:07.800 talk back to Isabelle even now. 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.160 But then she says, but David didn't have rules, No, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:13.120 he didn't need any. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.760 He is the most perfect person I've ever. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:24.159 Raised, Christina. Another person she happened to have raised, is 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:28.000 seated a couple feet away from her. Christina stares ahead blankly, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.960 not saying anything. So I press Isabelle, Well, you must 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.160 have done something wrong. I mean it's only. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.840 Very little. You'd be surprised how perfect he was. 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.399 Was that hard though, being like side by side with 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:45.200 someone who. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.280 Is just so No, I think it was good for. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.800 Her, Christina, Is that is that how you feel? 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:51.720 It was hard? 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:52.440 Yeah? 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.040 It was really hard. 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.000 Something else that's been hard is finding the courage to 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.040 ask the question that brought her here. Christina gives it 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:10.840 a shot, but after some throat clearing again, she goes silent, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:13.920 go ahead and ask. 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:22.600 I think the one thing that I have kind of 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:27.359 always wondered is do you remember I think it was 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:34.720 in tenth grade and I had been playing basketball and 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:36.720 you told me that I had to get my grades 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.000 up where I couldn't play basketball anymore. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:39.760 Do you remember that? 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:42.120 No? 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.879 Okay, so I didn't get my grades up and I 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:49.879 had to quit the team. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.080 I don't remember that, Agittall, I don't know. I still. 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.840 Was. It was devastating for me. 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:05.680 Why did you get your grade out there? 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.200 Yeah? 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.120 I asked Christina if she could explain to Isabelle why 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.000 losing basketball hurt so much. 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:16.679 Not without crying. 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:21.320 I felt like. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:24.480 It was like the one thing that I. 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.840 Was really good at. 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:32.840 Are you surprised to hear Christina talk about how much 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:34.679 she loved basketball? 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:34.840 Like? 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:36.480 Was that something that you knew back then? 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:37.800 I didn't know what. 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.240 No, did Christina? Did you ever express it? 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.240 I don't think she did. I don't think so. No, 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:47.320 I don't think you did. 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.680 I think the reason why, like it still affects me now, 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.440 it is because I didn't fight. 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:01.760 For it, and how could she have. She never felt 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.560 like she had the right to stop her feet to 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.560 slam the bedroom door in so many words, to act 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.880 like someone's kid. I thought that maybe if I could 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.880 get Isabelle to put herself in Christina's shoes, it might 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:19.040 help her understand. Was there anything that you can think 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.600 of that's comparable from your own life, Isabelle, Like something 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.480 that you really felt very passionate about, like the thing 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.080 that you really that was your great love. 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:37.600 Not really. I always wanted to go to school more 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:42.600 than I did. I really wanted a good education, which 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:44.680 of the country you weren't able to get. 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.560 Her father was a rancher, Isabelle says, and her mom 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.879 died when she was little, so her dad raised the 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.800 kids by himself, and Isabelle, being the eldest, had a 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:56.960 lot of responsibility. 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.879 I used to miss school every year when I go 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.199 to be a certain age and had to herd cattle. 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.520 So I'd missed about two months or a month of 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.360 school every year when I was old enough to do this. 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:14.639 But I was first in my class from the day 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:16.720 I started till the day I finished. I was never 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:18.520 anything but first in my class. 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.520 Was that typical that a lot of kids in the 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:23.119 class have to miss? 0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:29.320 No, just me and well we were brought up by 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.119 our dad. Men bring up children differently than women. 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:34.640 Yeah, and what ways? How do you mean? 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.119 I mean my dad didn't teach me to ride horseback. 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:38.800