Speaker 1: What is it like to try and pull the putter
Speaker 1: back with tens of thousands of people watching you. It
Speaker 1: was horrible. It was horrible. Put another log on the
Speaker 1: fire nobody hears give time. Hello, this is Allen ship
Speaker 1: knock Back for another Fire Drill podcast. We have Matt
Speaker 1: Janella on the line from Ireland, Michael Bamberger from Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: I'm here in California. We will all be rendezvousing in
Speaker 1: Saint Andrew soon, but today we want to talk about
Speaker 1: the jp Mcmannus pro am. Matt was let behind the
Speaker 1: velvet rope and got to experience it as a competitor,
Speaker 1: as an observer, and we'll go deep on that, the
Speaker 1: larger meaning of golf in Ireland, the ongoing live undercurrents
Speaker 1: because a lot of those guys played in Ireland. But
Speaker 1: before we get to all that good stuff, let's just
Speaker 1: do a quick shout out to our corporate sponsors who
Speaker 1: help us keep this the lights on here at the
Speaker 1: fire Pit Collective. Thank you to part points our favorite
Speaker 1: golf scoring app. I think you guys have heard of
Speaker 1: us to talk about it before. It's a very ingenious
Speaker 1: way to play the game. If you're looking to spice
Speaker 1: things up with the usual forsa or if you have
Speaker 1: kids or beginners, or works for all levels. But it's
Speaker 1: definitely a fun way to introduce the sport to people
Speaker 1: who may be intimidated by the idea of making triple bogie.
Speaker 1: I still make triple bogies anyway, So thanks to part
Speaker 1: Points for all that they do. Let's just jump in
Speaker 1: here and I think that the average golf fan knows
Speaker 1: this is a really cool event, but maybe it doesn't
Speaker 1: know who JP is or why every great player on
Speaker 1: planet Earth decided to show up in his honor. Just
Speaker 1: tell us a little backstory on this very unique gathering. Boy, Well,
Speaker 1: JP McManus, prominent Irish businessman, uh you know, well connected,
Speaker 1: came from Limerick, Ireland, right outside the gates of the
Speaker 1: A Dare Manner. He went on to buy the Adare
Speaker 1: Manner several years ago, has poured a lot of money
Speaker 1: into it to refurbish it, brought Tom Fasio in to
Speaker 1: redo the golf course. It will host the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: seven Ryder Cup. That was kind of a dream come
Speaker 1: true for not only Ireland in general, but also for
Speaker 1: JP himself. I once asked, JP, could you have ever imagined,
Speaker 1: you know, owning a Dare manner. And he stopped and said, Matt,
Speaker 1: you know, as a little kid growing up a Limerick,
Speaker 1: I could have never imagined even getting inside the gates
Speaker 1: of a Dare manner. You know. He came literally from nothing.
Speaker 1: He started as a young kid, you know, running bets
Speaker 1: for a bookie and has done some book in himself.
Speaker 1: He's an incredible backgammer's famously you know, probably one of
Speaker 1: the best backgamma players in the world. He's won millions
Speaker 1: and millions of dollars off back cam and games. He
Speaker 1: owns you know, very successful horses. The horse racing in
Speaker 1: Ireland essentially you know, goes through JP McManus and friends
Speaker 1: and partners with Dermott Desmond a lot of big business deals.
Speaker 1: Own Sandy Lane where Tiger got married. The relationship with
Speaker 1: Tiger goes back to the late nineties with Payne Stewart
Speaker 1: and Marcomera and the fishing trips that they used to
Speaker 1: take prior to the Open Championship. JP has cultivated a
Speaker 1: lot of relationships over the years with a lot of
Speaker 1: prominent players in a lot of different ways, you know,
Speaker 1: connecting with players, you know at Dunhill links at at
Speaker 1: and t pro Ams just you know, he's he's a
Speaker 1: self made billionaire, self made billionaire who has this amazing
Speaker 1: philanthropic heart and also this incredible humility. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of those guys are drawn to that level
Speaker 1: of humility and and when they make a commitment to them,
Speaker 1: they keep it. I mean, there's a lot of rich
Speaker 1: dudes who love golf, but they're not going to get
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods to fly across the ocean to play in
Speaker 1: their event. I mean, I'm trying to puzzle out, like
Speaker 1: what makes this guy so wired into the golf world
Speaker 1: that every top player wanted to come and pay homage
Speaker 1: and donate their time for for his charity causes? Like
Speaker 1: what is the secret sauce there? Well, I think there's
Speaker 1: probably goes both ways. I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: contributions he's made to their charities over the years, or
Speaker 1: a lot of contributions to the greater good of their life,
Speaker 1: whether that is you know, allowing them to come and
Speaker 1: get have a private wedding at one of his properties.
Speaker 1: And there's a mystique about JP that a lot of
Speaker 1: people are drawn to. And you know, I said, I
Speaker 1: asked a lot of people. What is it about JP? Why?
Speaker 1: Why are you here? Why? You know this has been
Speaker 1: a three year kind of stop start because of COVID
Speaker 1: that you know a lot of people have had their tickets,
Speaker 1: their hats which would wear their tickets for for over
Speaker 1: three years. And I think it's not only his philanthropic efforts,
Speaker 1: but the word that just kept Kemp coming up was humility.
Speaker 1: His humble nature, the way he goes about his business,
Speaker 1: and he spares nookes mase. He takes incredibly great care
Speaker 1: of not only the players, but their wives, their caddies.
Speaker 1: He goes above and beyond he is. He showers people
Speaker 1: with out of the good stuff, to the point where
Speaker 1: you're like, I can't is this really happening. I mean
Speaker 1: it was such a fantasy land for the last five
Speaker 1: days at a dare manner, with that backdrop and that
Speaker 1: golf course and forty thousand people and that field. It
Speaker 1: was I mean, you know, we get to be a
Speaker 1: part of a lot of special things and a lot
Speaker 1: of special you know acts says this to me is
Speaker 1: like using the horse racing analogy, this is my this
Speaker 1: is my secretariat, and in second place is way way
Speaker 1: back there kenn Offer just went insights, Matt. That was
Speaker 1: extremely well said, and being a little bit on the
Speaker 1: prophet of these guys, I would just only add to that.
Speaker 1: And this is true in all of the human condition.
Speaker 1: There's a chemical element to life that you can't figure out.
Speaker 1: And the qualities that you're talking about, Matt, Jimmy Dunn
Speaker 1: has it, m Eddie Lowry had it, Johnny Morris, I
Speaker 1: think Johnnyrris. Yes, I don't know Johnny Morris, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know Eddie Lowry. H do you know Jimmy Dunn?
Speaker 1: And there are qualities that man named Sam Reeves lesser known,
Speaker 1: but some of us Non has it, Arnold had it.
Speaker 1: Arnold had it in spades. And there's magic in the
Speaker 1: human condition that you He asked a early fine question,
Speaker 1: but the greatness of the answer is that there is
Speaker 1: no answer. There's just a chemical magic sometimes that makes
Speaker 1: something work. And you can have the money, but it's
Speaker 1: not enough. Mike, Mike Kaiser has it. Bill Core has it.
Speaker 1: Ben Crenshaw has it. You know Johnny Morris, by the way,
Speaker 1: the guy who started bass Pro shops out of you know,
Speaker 1: his father's liquor store. Again very similar self made billionaire
Speaker 1: who then goes overboard with philanthropic contributions that make I think,
Speaker 1: make them stay close to where they're from, who they are,
Speaker 1: and makes them feel good about a greater impact on
Speaker 1: the world they live in. Right and right, Matt, and
Speaker 1: I would add to that, And you mentioned the name earlier.
Speaker 1: If you're totally flying solo, like a Howard Hughes, you
Speaker 1: don't have it. And if you have a wingman like
Speaker 1: Dermot Desmond is to McManus, then you then you do
Speaker 1: have it. And of course part of Anold's great appeal
Speaker 1: was that he had wingmen. And part of almost really
Speaker 1: the loneliness of looking at Tiger's life is that he
Speaker 1: hasn't had that. It's well said, and and and Tiger
Speaker 1: was there. And Tiger took to the mic last night
Speaker 1: in this Galli ballroom filled with two thousand people. And again,
Speaker 1: you know, JP has raised one hundred and forty million
Speaker 1: dollars for charity and that was before through this program,
Speaker 1: but that was before this year's program. So whatever the
Speaker 1: final tally is is going to be north of one
Speaker 1: hundred and forty million. And although Tiger wrote around in
Speaker 1: a cart and didn't look good and uh, and you know,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, you know, everything that we were hearing is
Speaker 1: he's not feeling good. It's not going well. His body
Speaker 1: beyond his leg is just not working right now and
Speaker 1: may never work again in a way that allows him
Speaker 1: to be truly competitive at the level that he wishes
Speaker 1: he could be. But he said at the mic, he said,
Speaker 1: if you you know the next program you have, I'll
Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, they're everyone you have, I'll be here
Speaker 1: and you can count on that. That's incredible. I mean,
Speaker 1: given the Tiger may only play two or three times
Speaker 1: a year for the rest of his life in a
Speaker 1: competitive scenario, to pledge that over you know, the the
Speaker 1: PGA Championship or the US Open, I mean, it's remarkable. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, so Matt, you know, you, as you said,
Speaker 1: you've done some really cool things in golf. But this
Speaker 1: was a whole different magnitude. What is it like to
Speaker 1: try and pull the putter back with tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of people watching you? It was horrible. It was horrible.
Speaker 1: Thing was it was I striding to the first team.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, guys, I just said. I did a
Speaker 1: radio show in San Diego, the Ben and Woods, who
Speaker 1: you've been on. Allen and Ben Higgins asked, like, what
Speaker 1: was it like, you know, getting on that first team,
Speaker 1: playing in front of forty thousand people. I said, it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, if we were you know, how
Speaker 1: many times have we huddled around the first tee of
Speaker 1: the Masters, right we're there, we're watching those first tea
Speaker 1: shots surrounded by all those people. It would be like
Speaker 1: the starter saying, hey, Alan, you got your clubs on,
Speaker 1: you go grab your clubs. You're gonna play the Masters today.
Speaker 1: You're gonna You're gonna be a mark. It would be like,
Speaker 1: you know, being a marker at the Masters as an
Speaker 1: eight or nine handy. I mean it's like we, you know,
Speaker 1: we have really no business being out there. I mean
Speaker 1: we you know. My first thought is like I really
Speaker 1: don't want to hurt anybody. I mean, you know that
Speaker 1: that would be terrible. And I tried to put the
Speaker 1: tea in the ground, and my hand was shaking so badly.
Speaker 1: It took me an odd amount of time just to
Speaker 1: try to get the ball on the tea, And so
Speaker 1: many things are racing through your mind. I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't want to kill anybody. You don't want to make
Speaker 1: a fool of yourself. You know, it really shrinks, you know,
Speaker 1: and and you know, I'm shoulder to shoulder with guys
Speaker 1: like Graham mcdall or Dustin Johnson. People are yelling for
Speaker 1: their autographs and pictures and the intensity, the energy is palpable.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, I hit just enough good shots
Speaker 1: and contributed just enough to feel like, okay, I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I eventually drank enough guinness where I kind of called
Speaker 1: my nerves because I was trying everything. It was, it was,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's uh. It's fun, it's it's fantastic,
Speaker 1: but it is daunting and humiliating. Who was in your
Speaker 1: group Matt Greg McLaughlin who UH obviously worked with Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods the foundation for a long time and then UH
Speaker 1: now works for the works and manages the first you know,
Speaker 1: overseas the first tea in the World Golf Hall of Fame. UM.
Speaker 1: He ran the Champions Tour for many years and and
Speaker 1: the first day it was Graham McDowell, second day was
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson, and then Keith Sabarbaro. Sabarbaro, who runs Taylor
Speaker 1: Maid's Equipment, played ASU with Phil Mickelson, has a long
Speaker 1: standing relationship with Phil. Very good player, like, you know,
Speaker 1: an elite level ball striker, at at at in every
Speaker 1: aspect of his game. So we had a zero I
Speaker 1: played as a five because they took seventy percent of
Speaker 1: handbcap because it was shamble so you could use the
Speaker 1: best drive and then you all played him from there
Speaker 1: and it was a one ball out of the foursome.
Speaker 1: So Keith greg is about I think he got eleven shots.
Speaker 1: I got five shots. Keith got zero. And then we
Speaker 1: had Graham Day one who shot one under, in DJ
Speaker 1: Day two who shot two under. That's so cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Keith a barbaro. You know, he's a character in my
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson because they grew up playing together and they
Speaker 1: were both taught by Dean Ryan Myth. And Dean told
Speaker 1: me that that Keith was so freakishly long as a
Speaker 1: as a young teenager um and that really trying to
Speaker 1: keep up with him defined Phil's approach to the game,
Speaker 1: like he's been chasing distance since he was like thirteen
Speaker 1: years old because of Keith to Barbaro, because he was
Speaker 1: he was thirty yards behind him, and so it's just
Speaker 1: a it's a funny, uh it's funny that you guys
Speaker 1: crossed paths. And I approached Keith about an interview for
Speaker 1: the book. He's so discreet, like he's one of the
Speaker 1: most discreet guys in golf. And he said, I'd love to,
Speaker 1: but I can't, basically, And um, so it's cool that
Speaker 1: you got to see his game up close, because I've
Speaker 1: been hearing about it for a long time. Well, Keith
Speaker 1: really yeah, sorry, Keith is really close with these players, right,
Speaker 1: He's really He's in and and and he explained to
Speaker 1: me that it's just it's just not of it in
Speaker 1: his best interest in any way, shape or form to
Speaker 1: have any kind of conversation about the players he knows
Speaker 1: or the relationships he's built or though you know, it
Speaker 1: just it just doesn't work for him. And and and uh
Speaker 1: and and that's that's his you know, that's the way
Speaker 1: he goes about his business. And that's why he's probably
Speaker 1: had a long standing career and why he has the
Speaker 1: reputation he has. But I one little anecdote about his length,
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm not long, but I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I'm some you know, I when I when I, when
Speaker 1: I connect with one, it goes a fair you know,
Speaker 1: a good enough distance from where we play, right the
Speaker 1: teams we play, and Keith would hit it seventy or
Speaker 1: eighty yards by me and and so I was like,
Speaker 1: you marveling. I mean, he's he's got an action that
Speaker 1: is just outrageous. And I said to him, you should
Speaker 1: be playing inside the ropes way more often than these
Speaker 1: these occasional programs. We're on the driving range the second
Speaker 1: day before um we're playing with DJ and Ross Desmond
Speaker 1: Dermott's son is hitting balls between me and Keith, and
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm marveling a kid. We're all watching
Speaker 1: Keith and I go, man, I can't believe al far
Speaker 1: he hits. And Rosco's yeah, I used to know him
Speaker 1: when he actually hit it far. And I was like,
Speaker 1: wait what because he's old his mind, Yeah, he's old.
Speaker 1: He's older now, and he's and and he doesn't like
Speaker 1: he would have been a hundred and twenty yards by me.
Speaker 1: I mean that this guy is, as you say, freakishly
Speaker 1: long and a very good player. Was fun to watch
Speaker 1: him play golf. That's cool, my my, uh, we probably
Speaker 1: all have this experience with Keith, and so, like, Keith,
Speaker 1: can we talk about the technical aspect of Tigers Club's
Speaker 1: specs and all. He said, Yeah, it's great if it's cool.
Speaker 1: If it's cool Tiger, it's great. Well, it's never cool Tiger.
Speaker 1: So the answer is now, exactly what did DJ have
Speaker 1: any insight into your golf game or your position at
Speaker 1: the top. Yeah. No, they all gave me a hard time.
Speaker 1: Um and uh, and that's part of That's part of
Speaker 1: the fun, right is that is that they kind of
Speaker 1: make fun of you. Um and my, my, I have
Speaker 1: a real I fight, you know, a fast sort of downswing.
Speaker 1: I fire early. I don't let it drop in. It's thing.
Speaker 1: It's just it's I think about it, but I can't
Speaker 1: do it. And in that circumstance, under this kind of pressure,
Speaker 1: it really is hard to relax and let it fall in.
Speaker 1: I mean and so and I had at one and
Speaker 1: because of those green surrounds, there's you know, and if
Speaker 1: I could, I'd put it or I'd hit a little
Speaker 1: punch six iron and I'd play it like I play
Speaker 1: Pineers number two or play Links Golf Abandoned, etc. And Um.
Speaker 1: But there's occasions where you got to go up, you
Speaker 1: got to try to hit the flop shot and on
Speaker 1: the ninth hole yesterday playing with DJ, and I got
Speaker 1: a shot and I'm trying to hit a flop shot
Speaker 1: up and over, and I'd kind of pulled my my
Speaker 1: approach shot on my second shot on a part five
Speaker 1: into the crowd. So I'm over there and the crowd
Speaker 1: is all surrounded me and they're all give me hard time.
Speaker 1: And I'm drinking again as to again try to call
Speaker 1: my nerves. And I got to go up and over
Speaker 1: and the grass has already trampled down to the ball
Speaker 1: balls sitting. You know. It's it's a very very messy situation.
Speaker 1: And behind me as the backdrop of the adare manner,
Speaker 1: and I got to go up over this bunker and
Speaker 1: I fire this. I unleash holy hell on this downswing
Speaker 1: and I catch it thin and it went like two
Speaker 1: hundred yards. I mean, it was like fu it was.
Speaker 1: It was like yelling for was unnecessary because it was
Speaker 1: going so far out out of the realm of possibility.
Speaker 1: And DJ like started cracking up. He's like, you had
Speaker 1: a two hundred miles per hour swing speed on that downswing,
Speaker 1: Like I have never seen anybody attack a golf ball
Speaker 1: on the institute like that. He's still talking about I guarantee.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was so bad. And then
Speaker 1: the people all laugh and I'm like, well, there you go.
Speaker 1: That's the best Iron Hive hit all day. And the
Speaker 1: Irish lady says, you know, as I pick up my guinness,
Speaker 1: she goes, I have one thought for you. You might
Speaker 1: want to get off the drink. And I was like, actually,
Speaker 1: that's the only chance I have. I mean, that's nightmare fuel.
Speaker 1: That holes in there. God, it was crazy. It was
Speaker 1: I'm having I'll have nightmares seriously for days to come now.
Speaker 1: So you know, you're sort of traveling on two passports
Speaker 1: because you're treated as an equal. You have access to
Speaker 1: the bars, the lounges, the driving rains of putting green,
Speaker 1: but you're still kind of an observer and a reporter
Speaker 1: at heart. So I know you have to be discreet
Speaker 1: because a lot of these things were told you and
Speaker 1: sort of set my confidence. But what was it like
Speaker 1: to be have that intimacy with all these great players?
Speaker 1: And probably people saw on social media that picture of
Speaker 1: you and Jordan's speech, justin Thomas Ricky Fowler just hanging
Speaker 1: out having having a paint like you're you're a fan,
Speaker 1: you're a reporter, you're a competitor, like you're wearing different hats.
Speaker 1: So just what did it feel like to be in
Speaker 1: that arena. It's all of it's it's well articulated in
Speaker 1: that that's that's what's happening at all times. You know,
Speaker 1: you walk down the hallway, you bump into somebody, You
Speaker 1: take an elevator, you know, I had you known elevator
Speaker 1: with Jay Monahan, crossing paths with Rory McElroy or Justin.
Speaker 1: You go to a bar and there they all are,
Speaker 1: you know, Jordan, Justin and Ricky with their wives, and
Speaker 1: they're they're having fun. They're in Ireland, they're doing you know,
Speaker 1: we're all watching the hurling semifinals. And we end up
Speaker 1: at the bar and I'm you know, and and having
Speaker 1: conversation with Coucher and Lee Westwood and I are four
Speaker 1: nand our fans go way back, you know, and as
Speaker 1: its just and Keith Pelly and dinner with Jay Monahan
Speaker 1: and watching Brooks come over and talk to Jamon Ann's
Speaker 1: first time they've talked since Brooks's wedding and having casual conversation.
Speaker 1: It was this. I think there was a lot of uh,
Speaker 1: I think I talked to JP afterwards. I said, JP, um,
Speaker 1: are you able to take a moment and be appreciated
Speaker 1: and enjoy what's just happened here, That that you brought
Speaker 1: all this to Ireland, you brought this together, you brought
Speaker 1: this field together. This actually happened after three years of
Speaker 1: stop start And he said, oh, Matt, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just happy there's been no incidents and that
Speaker 1: the gloves stayed on, that that the gloves never came off,
Speaker 1: Because I think there was a general sense of that,
Speaker 1: with how personal things have gotten, you know, in this
Speaker 1: situation with live and so many things have been said
Speaker 1: back and forth, that that something might happen, there might
Speaker 1: actually be an incident in which someone would you know,
Speaker 1: confront somebody, and that didn't happen. As far as I know,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I'm not aware of that, whether that happened
Speaker 1: you know, through text message or DM or or or
Speaker 1: where at a situation where I wasn't aware of possible.
Speaker 1: But I think everybody sort of tried to kind of
Speaker 1: remember why they were there, who their host was in
Speaker 1: reference in reverence and respect for JP to just make
Speaker 1: it about the golf and the giving back and and
Speaker 1: and it seemed to work. You know, I think Ireland
Speaker 1: is also a disarming place people feel comfortable and more
Speaker 1: at ease with who they are. I hope, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a chance there was some productive conversations you know,
Speaker 1: had amongst you know, I know Patty Harrington, Shane Lowry
Speaker 1: was congratulating certain guys for their situations. You know. Again,
Speaker 1: Paul Casey signed while we were there with Live and
Speaker 1: I walked up to him and uh, and he was,
Speaker 1: you know, Paul Casey goes, hey, hold on, I'm about
Speaker 1: to turn forty five. I got a bad back. I
Speaker 1: don't have a lot a lot left, you know, I
Speaker 1: got five years until the Champions Tour. I try to
Speaker 1: make a living play in the game of golf. And
Speaker 1: you know, he summarized it just like that, you know,
Speaker 1: and then he hit his tea shot and he walked off,
Speaker 1: and it was like, it's really hard to argue with
Speaker 1: It's really hard to argue with um in the in
Speaker 1: their situation. I think Graham uh feels the same way,
Speaker 1: you know. You know, these guys Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood,
Speaker 1: like these guys are are They're in that tweener phase.
Speaker 1: Of their career in which again they've woken up every
Speaker 1: day since how young they were, tried to get really
Speaker 1: good at golf and earn a paycheck so that they
Speaker 1: can keep playing the game that they love. And you know,
Speaker 1: Graham mc now said, you know, I might lose my
Speaker 1: card And is the PGA Tour going to come and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Graham, but you know, let us let us
Speaker 1: give you more money. You know, you're not playing anymore.
Speaker 1: You're not you're not you're not competitive at this level anymore.
Speaker 1: But we want to help you out. We want to
Speaker 1: give you a retirement, you know, or some form of,
Speaker 1: you know, a way to make a living. What's he
Speaker 1: going to do? Matt, what was your what was your
Speaker 1: reading on on Monahan? Just physically? How did he see him?
Speaker 1: And do you feel like he's ready for what he's
Speaker 1: facing here? Well, I think he's really overwhelmed. I think
Speaker 1: he's he's I think he's doing what he can in
Speaker 1: his mind to try to sort this out. This is
Speaker 1: complex on so many levels, as we as we all know.
Speaker 1: I will say Michael and I and again I've got
Speaker 1: to be honest here that for me, and I've said
Speaker 1: this in a previous podcast. For me, it was so
Speaker 1: cut and dry that this was simple right, Saudi Arabia out.
Speaker 1: It can't be a part of anything, you know. I
Speaker 1: had friend lost friends in nine to eleven. It just
Speaker 1: that that I was in New York. It's it's a
Speaker 1: non starter for me. Out. I understand sports washing, I
Speaker 1: understand I see all of that. I'm really not a
Speaker 1: fan of Greg Norman. I don't like what he represents
Speaker 1: and how he's conducted. Is I just not a Norman
Speaker 1: guy at all? But over time I am now and
Speaker 1: having had these conversations, we basically have bumped up against
Speaker 1: sort of the confines of what is the PGA tour
Speaker 1: and the structure that they have and the control they
Speaker 1: have over you know, the marketing of their product and
Speaker 1: storytelling around their product and the language around their product,
Speaker 1: and you know. And so I've got problems with PJ
Speaker 1: Tour and you know. And so now it's like I
Speaker 1: find myself in this position of listening to both sides.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot. I did a lot of listening
Speaker 1: these last few days, asking a couple of questions and
Speaker 1: did a lot of listening. And people are very open
Speaker 1: and willing to have conversations about it, and I think
Speaker 1: they know who I am, They know who we are
Speaker 1: the fire Pick collective. They know our relationships that I
Speaker 1: have with people like yourselves and Ryan and Jeff Ogilvie, etc.
Speaker 1: Mac Barnhart for that matter. And I just I see Jay,
Speaker 1: I see Keith trying to do the best he can
Speaker 1: for his tour. I I see players trying to do
Speaker 1: the best they can for themselves and their families. I
Speaker 1: see these individual situations. You listen to them and you
Speaker 1: can't help. But uh, you know again kind of throwing
Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabia stuff out because and I think now
Speaker 1: for me, you know, here we got we we're depending
Speaker 1: on Saudi Arabia. We had a president flying over to
Speaker 1: try to, you know, work out a relationship, a new
Speaker 1: relationship with Saudi Arabia. There is I just listened to
Speaker 1: the Golfers Journal podcast. Ms. Thomas Freeman said, the politics
Speaker 1: has no place kind of in this game. You know,
Speaker 1: there's part of me is like, you know what, and
Speaker 1: and look at look at the look at the tour players, right,
Speaker 1: look at look at the tour players have one option
Speaker 1: that to test the market. It's themselves. It's their ability
Speaker 1: to play good golf. Yes, they can do endorsement deals,
Speaker 1: and some guys make good money in endorsements deals, but
Speaker 1: it's very few, right, There's very few guys who actually
Speaker 1: get a good living through endorsement deals. So if you're
Speaker 1: if you're a top fifty player, what are your options
Speaker 1: of trying to test the market of what your value is?
Speaker 1: You know, I saw the difference between Graham mcdowal and
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson. Graham mcdowal is a star, Dustin Johnson is
Speaker 1: a superstar. Is Dustin Johnson making the most money he
Speaker 1: can possibly make by playing the PGA Tour? Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: there be Like if you're a soccer player, you can
Speaker 1: go from league to league, you can test your market.
Speaker 1: In the NBA, you can go from team to team
Speaker 1: and test your market, NFL baseball, whatever, like free agency,
Speaker 1: you have a players union, you have protection, you have
Speaker 1: Like what what does a PGA what does a professional
Speaker 1: golfer have to try to test his his his place
Speaker 1: in the marketplace? Yeah? Well, I mean that's that's what
Speaker 1: liv has done, is as created a market and it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that this this fell right after
Speaker 1: the Portland event where I I which I covered and
Speaker 1: I was in London obviously, so not many folks have
Speaker 1: been to both tournaments so far as um, and you
Speaker 1: and Phil had a handful of others. Uh and pought
Speaker 1: out some almond milk for Bob Herrick too, But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the timing. This was amazing. Um And oh, by
Speaker 1: the way, I mean I heard some things that there
Speaker 1: was a there was a plane that the Lived Tour
Speaker 1: supplied to get the guys from Portland to the JP
Speaker 1: McMahons pro am. What what did you hear about that
Speaker 1: plane ride? Matt? It was a flying nightclub quote, flying nightclub.
Speaker 1: It was like New Year's Eve. It was like a
Speaker 1: ten hour flight and after it landed, people wanted them
Speaker 1: to take off again to keep going. It was it
Speaker 1: was there was It was an absolute party. Like the
Speaker 1: plane was so spectacular, you know, room for eighty and
Speaker 1: there was only forty on the plane. It was like
Speaker 1: a big giant private jet. And and Saudi Arabia paid
Speaker 1: for that to get those players back to to to
Speaker 1: the JP pro am, to which JP told DJ to
Speaker 1: thank them, thanks, thanks, thanks for getting those guys back there.
Speaker 1: That was a big chunk of his field. That made
Speaker 1: a difference to the crowd, the forty thousand people that
Speaker 1: were assembled there that those last It was probably helpful
Speaker 1: to bring everyone together like this in a semi low
Speaker 1: key setting ahead of the Open because they were all
Speaker 1: going to mix on the driving range at Saint Andrew's.
Speaker 1: But this seems like it was was a good reentry
Speaker 1: into bringing the hat field on the McCoy's together. And
Speaker 1: I mean I saw this on Twitter. What's interesting is
Speaker 1: for the guys who've gone over to live is just
Speaker 1: business and the tour loyalists, it's very personal and there's
Speaker 1: there's a there's a difference in the rhetoric and the tone.
Speaker 1: Um you know, I don't know if you saw Billy
Speaker 1: Horsell's comments, like you know, he went off like I
Speaker 1: find the whole as it's you've involved in every week,
Speaker 1: it kind of the story changes. Now you have you know,
Speaker 1: Poulter and those other guys that have won this court
Speaker 1: in junction, they're playing in the Scottish and there's been
Speaker 1: some pushback against that, Like it's wild how this this
Speaker 1: story develops a week by week. But I do think
Speaker 1: that when someone writes the story about all this, he
Speaker 1: might be on this podcast, Um, this mc madnus program
Speaker 1: is going to be is going to be pretty juicy
Speaker 1: because it was really it was kind of a little
Speaker 1: too soon to bring em together, but it just had
Speaker 1: to be and there was still raw and there was
Speaker 1: still flying around, you know, things flying around. I know.
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's a it's a neat chapter
Speaker 1: in a book about all all the uh interpersonal dynamics
Speaker 1: here because it is just business, but people are taking
Speaker 1: it very personally, very obviously. That that is the one
Speaker 1: thing that I heard from both sides. One side would
Speaker 1: say I wish they wouldn't talk about us, and the
Speaker 1: other I would say, I wish they wouldn't talk about
Speaker 1: us like players going after other players in this situation.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that's you know, taking some
Speaker 1: of this stuff personally seems like it doesn't make much
Speaker 1: sense to me. It seems like the leadership of these
Speaker 1: tours or what actually needs to needs to have conversation.
Speaker 1: Whether that's going to happen or that's realistic, or if
Speaker 1: there's ever going to be a place where these these
Speaker 1: two things can actually coexist in some sense of harmony
Speaker 1: seems very unlikely and unrealistic, but that that would make
Speaker 1: more sense than the players going back and forth, you know,
Speaker 1: getting judge on each other about what they're doing and
Speaker 1: how they're doing it. I think, you know, I had
Speaker 1: a long conversation with Pat Perez last night. I had
Speaker 1: a good conversation with Brooks Keepka and you know Brooks,
Speaker 1: you know Brooks. He said, very plainly, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not getting down on this back and forth. I don't
Speaker 1: care what people think or say. That's just not It
Speaker 1: just doesn't matter to me. I I've you know, I'm
Speaker 1: making decisions about me based on my body, on where
Speaker 1: I'm at with with my health and my career. He said,
Speaker 1: you know, I came from nothing. Okay, when I when
Speaker 1: my when I signed my contract, my mom and I
Speaker 1: reflected on a time and when I was a kid
Speaker 1: ten years old and they went they endured a hurricane,
Speaker 1: and the hurricane basically I took took their roof off
Speaker 1: their house. And when the when another hurricane came to
Speaker 1: their roof still wasn't repaired and another hurricane, like the
Speaker 1: roof still wasn't impaired. He said, I grew up in
Speaker 1: a flea infested house and if someone's going to offer
Speaker 1: me one hundred and thirty million dollars to do what
Speaker 1: I do and how I do it, to play a
Speaker 1: little less and to be able to have kind of
Speaker 1: more flexibility. He's got his majors, he's got his wins,
Speaker 1: he's proven to himself and the world that he's he's
Speaker 1: a bona fide badass at the game of golf. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm taking the money, and it's it's based on what
Speaker 1: I need for me in my life and my career. Man. Quick,
Speaker 1: as though this is the first time that number has
Speaker 1: been out there, one hundred and thirty million, I was
Speaker 1: not aware of that. I was told one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty million for DJ and Brooks and you know how
Speaker 1: many years they covers. No. Yeah, So when you talked
Speaker 1: to very eloquently, and we all know Graham, you know,
Speaker 1: in two different ways, you talked about this thing from
Speaker 1: Graham mcdalla's perspective, and I'm right there with you. And
Speaker 1: I'm terrible at these courtroom drama movies. You know, first
Speaker 1: the prosecutor goes and the defense guy goes. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So yeah, that so I'm right there
Speaker 1: with you. Yeah, I get poor gram program, but in
Speaker 1: the real is big. But the reason this thing is
Speaker 1: emotional and the reason people are talking about it the
Speaker 1: way they are, the players and the fans and broadcasters
Speaker 1: and everybody and us and everybody in the game, is
Speaker 1: that at some point this does actually reveal your life
Speaker 1: value system. And so it would be you could shut
Speaker 1: down gram McDowell's whole arguin by saying, Grant, you've made
Speaker 1: a fortune. Who are you kidding here? Your set for life.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you do for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life, and this is the tour that made you.
Speaker 1: So there are two very different ways of saying it
Speaker 1: and of seeing this whole thing. And I think just
Speaker 1: from my own perspective, but if I'm a Grammic to all,
Speaker 1: I'd have a totally different perspective. I try to look
Speaker 1: at the game at large and these competing tours, even
Speaker 1: for all the excellent reasons you outlined about why it
Speaker 1: makes sense and why it's, you know, an inflection point
Speaker 1: for the game, this isn't good for professional golf. I
Speaker 1: think it can be. I believe that if the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour were to take some time and I and I
Speaker 1: quite quite frankly between us. I said this to Jail,
Speaker 1: I said, you know the chase when you said between us,
Speaker 1: fare of mind, this is a public forum. Well, this
Speaker 1: is between us and that we are sharing with the listener,
Speaker 1: who thanks for listening, by the way, because again I
Speaker 1: think you know, Jay and I were having a conversation
Speaker 1: about the state of the game. And he's in the
Speaker 1: position he's in, and I'm in the position I'm in,
Speaker 1: and we're in the position we're in, and I think
Speaker 1: we all care about the game of golf. I feel
Speaker 1: really good about the the amateur aspect and the opportunities
Speaker 1: and access growth that's happening for the recreational golfer. So
Speaker 1: so remember we are although we're talking about golf, we're
Speaker 1: talking about a very very very small small percentage of people.
Speaker 1: And the big fundamental differences this is these are the
Speaker 1: people who get paid to play the game. We the
Speaker 1: US and the listener, and although we have benefits and
Speaker 1: don't often pay a lot to play the game, but
Speaker 1: the difference is the people who pay to play the game.
Speaker 1: It's a big difference here. Okay, So let's remember that.
Speaker 1: Second of all, I just think that if i'm Jay Monahan,
Speaker 1: I'm focused on creating a better feeder system into what
Speaker 1: is the PGA Tour. I'm creating more opportunities in access
Speaker 1: for people at the lower levels, creating a minor league
Speaker 1: system that looks more realistic and more sensible from a single,
Speaker 1: a double, a triple, a ball club kind of feeder system,
Speaker 1: so that people can have more opportunities in access to
Speaker 1: make a living playing professional golf, whether that's the Latin
Speaker 1: American Tour or the corn Ferry Tour or the Golden
Speaker 1: State Tour or you know, Dakota's Tour, whatever that is.
Speaker 1: I'm looking down there and I'm trying to cultivate a
Speaker 1: place where people can still call themselves a professional golfer
Speaker 1: and make a living without having to make it to
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, and get that those people in that
Speaker 1: system and build up to and whatever the live is
Speaker 1: is going to be what it is. What Jay Monahan
Speaker 1: has no hope of trying to outspend them or trying
Speaker 1: to compete with them in that aspect, So why do it?
Speaker 1: Why not control what you can control. Zerich Classic, to me,
Speaker 1: is a great example of a floundering event that created
Speaker 1: a different system, a team event that has now researched
Speaker 1: the interest into that to that event. So why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you take that concept and say, Okay, we've got something,
Speaker 1: we got some we got some energy here, just like
Speaker 1: we would as in our company to say, oh we've
Speaker 1: got some we got we got some heat here, Let's
Speaker 1: do more of this. Why wouldn't you come up with
Speaker 1: make John Dier a team event as well? Why do
Speaker 1: we do it? Come for the team series that lives
Speaker 1: within the framework of the PGA Tour schedule that then says, okay,
Speaker 1: those five weeks you partner up with your team Shipnuck
Speaker 1: and I are always playing in these events together, and
Speaker 1: you and French Bamberger are playing in the other like
Speaker 1: and there's a season long sort of sub series like
Speaker 1: why that is why I think there's a chance to
Speaker 1: make this good for golf, Michael, that there's more people
Speaker 1: making money playing professional golf. We'll see all at the
Speaker 1: major championships. There could eventually be a live Tour champion
Speaker 1: versus a PGA Tour champion, or a Ryder Cup match
Speaker 1: instead of the Presidents Cup, in which you could take
Speaker 1: the best of that tour and the best of the like.
Speaker 1: I just I'm going to hold out hope and I
Speaker 1: am I am and sort of inspired by the idea
Speaker 1: that there can be positive change for professional golf and
Speaker 1: thus called. One of the big rumors floating around Portland
Speaker 1: was that next year Live is going to have a
Speaker 1: women's series eight of vents for the same money, which
Speaker 1: it obviously would be monumental for the women's game, and
Speaker 1: also have mix mixed team events, like there's been discussions
Speaker 1: about a mixed team event between LPGA and the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour for a decade plus. It's the most no brainer
Speaker 1: idea in the whole world. The fact that they can't
Speaker 1: get it done is ridiculous and it Lives sounds like
Speaker 1: Lives are just gonna do it next year, and that
Speaker 1: would be you talk about a fun, dynamic format that
Speaker 1: people would love. Um. And then so you know, as
Speaker 1: you're saying why, like why are done? Like why is
Speaker 1: it so now? They will now they're going to right,
Speaker 1: they've been talking about right. I remember like three commissioners
Speaker 1: ago on that for the LPGA they were talking about it.
Speaker 1: So this is to your point is now there's urgency.
Speaker 1: Now there's pressure to to innovate and to get things done.
Speaker 1: And um, you know even the we can all agree
Speaker 1: that the term shotgun is kind of weird for a
Speaker 1: big time professional golf event, and it seems hogy because
Speaker 1: it's what we do for you know, you're playing in
Speaker 1: a charity event for the local hospital here or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I've come to actually like it having now covered
Speaker 1: these two, these two live events, because everything's happening all
Speaker 1: at once, and it's bang bang bang, And you go
Speaker 1: to a regular tour event and guys are teen off
Speaker 1: all day long, and it's like, if you know, if
Speaker 1: I'm on the West Coast and I sleep in and
Speaker 1: they're playing on the East Coast, I could miss my
Speaker 1: some guys I care about, they're like almost done or
Speaker 1: the round by the time I get up and eat
Speaker 1: my Coco puffs. Like there is something pleasing about all
Speaker 1: the players playing all at the same time. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not suggesting the PGA Tours to adopt
Speaker 1: that model, but when't I think we all pushed back. Oh,
Speaker 1: shotgun starts, that's so hokey, But now that I've actually
Speaker 1: seen an action, it's kind of fun. And even this
Speaker 1: team mask protective cool question, why why couldn't they have
Speaker 1: shotgun starts? For the first two rounds and then have
Speaker 1: traditional starts for the last round. They certainly could. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's just part of their part of their
Speaker 1: brand of who they are. But on the shotgun for
Speaker 1: the final round is based on the score, so like
Speaker 1: the leaders go off of one, you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: still there, there's there's a sense of order based on scoring. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think and the thing that
Speaker 1: about Live is I think they're open to tweaking and
Speaker 1: innovating and maybe they will do that. You know, there
Speaker 1: there's there's there's not much dogma over there, like they
Speaker 1: kind of roll with it and we may see some
Speaker 1: some changes to that. But um, so yeah, it's as
Speaker 1: as you're saying, Matt, I mean, this is probably the
Speaker 1: spark that golf needed to really change some things. Now
Speaker 1: we can all agree it's probably unfortunate where the funding
Speaker 1: is coming from. But when you set that piece aside,
Speaker 1: which is not easy to do, but when you just
Speaker 1: look at it as as competition, um and leads to innovation,
Speaker 1: I think that I think that there's definitely something going
Speaker 1: on here. And I want to come back to something
Speaker 1: Michael you said about Graham, where he's made millions of
Speaker 1: dollars and he's got enough, and and you know, look,
Speaker 1: who are we to know or judge what's enough for
Speaker 1: Graham mcdot. I don't know his you know, you know,
Speaker 1: he's at a divorce, he's got you know whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: business investors like I don't know, Like I just don't
Speaker 1: feel good about being in a position to say you've
Speaker 1: got enough, you know, like I don't, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I think that's a decision. Also,
Speaker 1: that's just incredibly personal whatever is going on, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I live in a family in which
Speaker 1: a lot of us are trying to help, you know,
Speaker 1: my parents, Like, I mean, it's just it's it's very complicated.
Speaker 1: It just feels a little too intrusive for me to
Speaker 1: sort of say that you have enough, you don't need anymore.
Speaker 1: You know, these are young guys, they're gonna they've got
Speaker 1: kids who are gonna go like you know, who knows
Speaker 1: you're going? You know, I just don't. I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I I this is I Look, I'll be the first
Speaker 1: to admit and like I said earlier, you know, when
Speaker 1: it first went down and we're listening, you know, and
Speaker 1: and I think we all agreed that Nicholson had some
Speaker 1: good points. Early on, it felt that he was making
Speaker 1: him on behalf of himself he was, you know, it
Speaker 1: was the way he was doing it and who he
Speaker 1: was doing it with. We always obviously had problems with
Speaker 1: that right out of the gate. But the more I'm
Speaker 1: spending time listening and learning and hearing both sides, I
Speaker 1: just I'm I'm I'm I'm just more empathetic or or
Speaker 1: sympathetic or I'm just kind of in the middle now,
Speaker 1: I just I'm I'm loving the fact that we're challenging
Speaker 1: status quo. I see why a guy like Pat Perez
Speaker 1: or Paul Casey or Brooks kept Goo or these guys
Speaker 1: would would do what they're doing and how they're doing
Speaker 1: it for what they're getting paid to do it. And
Speaker 1: and I see the other side of wanting to maintain
Speaker 1: this pristine structure of the PGA tour and the legacy
Speaker 1: that comes along with it, a number of tour wins.
Speaker 1: You know, we just got to get over the fact
Speaker 1: that eighty two and fifteen or forty six and six
Speaker 1: or you know, it's just not going to happen again,
Speaker 1: it's not it's just not likely to be where where
Speaker 1: the game goes that because of the amount of money
Speaker 1: that is being thrown around the game, like I just
Speaker 1: and the and the youth, and the amount of players
Speaker 1: that are coming up. It just it's this is the
Speaker 1: dawn of a new day. I just want to say,
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you about judging any other person's
Speaker 1: financial life completely. But if you just look at the
Speaker 1: broad picture, let's not even make a personal to Graham
Speaker 1: mcdell or anybody else. Most of these successful to our
Speaker 1: players have made ninety nine point nine percent more, you know,
Speaker 1: than the than the average American worker could make. They'll
Speaker 1: make more in a year, far the average American sou
Speaker 1: And really we've seen it in every sport. We don't
Speaker 1: care about the size of the contracts. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, one I know, I've written this and everyone
Speaker 1: I think would probably agree with this. One thing it's
Speaker 1: really getting lost here is that we pay for all
Speaker 1: of this, where we the fans pay for all of this.
Speaker 1: And I feel like Jay Monahan has done a poorer
Speaker 1: job of starting with the fans interest in the game
Speaker 1: and all the things that we're talking about. And you
Speaker 1: both made very good points about the good initiatives that
Speaker 1: would come out of this. Why isn't there mixed play?
Speaker 1: Why isn't their team play? You know, why isn't there
Speaker 1: and that all those things really should come out of Ultimately, Now,
Speaker 1: what did the players want? How do we make more
Speaker 1: money for the for the players? But where do fans
Speaker 1: actually want to see? Because that's really the starting point
Speaker 1: for well, even if we make this more about our jobs,
Speaker 1: which is to bring fun stuff to fans, it's people
Speaker 1: who follow the collective closely. No, we've had some battles
Speaker 1: with the tour, the PGA tour as far as being
Speaker 1: able to do the thing, the kind of content we want,
Speaker 1: and whereas on live tour anything goes I mean I can.
Speaker 1: I'm out there taping shots and throwing up on Twitter,
Speaker 1: you know, these thirty second videos. Nobody cares that they're
Speaker 1: happy you're doing it. You're promoting their product. You know
Speaker 1: that you can do literally anything you want out there
Speaker 1: as a reporter as far as filming, live tweeting, all
Speaker 1: these things that are forbidden on the PGA tour, and
Speaker 1: that have led to some of our battles with the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour and so our colleague Bryant French Money Qinfod's
Speaker 1: going to Caddy next week at the Reno Tahoe Open.
Speaker 1: And I was having a dialogue with a PGA tour
Speaker 1: about a few different things, and I meant, today this
Speaker 1: is coming up again, and we've had some missues like well,
Speaker 1: send us an email and tell us what you want.
Speaker 1: Just make all your asks and we'll review it. And
Speaker 1: so I send this long email with a bunch of
Speaker 1: line items, most of them overly ambitious. They said, yes,
Speaker 1: every everything but one, and like that is an example
Speaker 1: of what the Live competition is probably doing a pg
Speaker 1: tour headquarters where they're the saying, you know what, we
Speaker 1: have to be a little more open minded. We have
Speaker 1: to recognize that we have a competitor who's doing things
Speaker 1: a very different way, and maybe that's going to shift
Speaker 1: us in a different direction. And you know, the fans
Speaker 1: are going to be the winner, because now Ryan's gonna
Speaker 1: be out there between the ropes taking videos, live tweeting,
Speaker 1: interviewing Baldwin as they go. There's all kinds of cool
Speaker 1: content that comes out of the Reno Taha Open, which
Speaker 1: is a tournament that no one really pays attention to
Speaker 1: it's against the Open Championship at Saint Andrew's. But for
Speaker 1: the hardcore fans who have followed this journey of Ryan
Speaker 1: and Mark, they're gonna love it and they're gonna get
Speaker 1: a lot more out of it. And you know, so
Speaker 1: that's a that's a small example of how competition is
Speaker 1: changing the PGA Tour business model. And um, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be really fun for the for the fans, which is
Speaker 1: what None of this exists except for the fans. I mean,
Speaker 1: professional golf has one purpose only that is to entertain
Speaker 1: golf fans. Otherwise everything goes away. And so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that we're already seeing some some some shifting
Speaker 1: attitudes in Pontovitra beats and for the better. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you right now to play golf with Dustin Johnson and
Speaker 1: watch him hit that golf ball and do what he does.
Speaker 1: If he had someone who helped helped read those greens
Speaker 1: because they're tricky out there. At adare manner, he could
Speaker 1: have shot sixty four with ease. I mean two under
Speaker 1: was the highest, you know, the sort of highest he
Speaker 1: could have shot yesterday. He is he is such he's
Speaker 1: so good at the game of golf. It is unbelievable,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've played in a lot of poems
Speaker 1: and I've I've played with Brooks and I've played with
Speaker 1: Phil and these guys are these guys are these guys
Speaker 1: are fun to watch and so I you know, in
Speaker 1: the forty thousand fans that were out there yesterday had
Speaker 1: the time of their lives. I mean the kids, the
Speaker 1: Irish kids, and the applause, and they were so gracious.
Speaker 1: The crowd was so gracious. JP didn't allow drinking with
Speaker 1: the fans on the golf course. He's just not you know.
Speaker 1: He wanted to keep the atmosphere respectful and I think
Speaker 1: that had a huge impact on the general tone of
Speaker 1: the day was very warm, very cordial. There was no comments.
Speaker 1: I mean, Graham mcdowll's from northern Ireland. This was in Ireland. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's gone to live there, you know. He received, you know,
Speaker 1: very complimentary applause at every tea, at every green you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you asked about how Jamonhams. You know, Graham, this
Speaker 1: is really this is definitely affecting Graham. This is he
Speaker 1: you know, you can tell this is you know, his
Speaker 1: his dream would have been to host and captain the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup at a dare manner in Ireland in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty seven, and he expressed that and he said that
Speaker 1: would have been that would be an incredible Swan song
Speaker 1: sort of and and a feather in my cap of
Speaker 1: my career. And now I don't now, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's even possible. I don't know, you know, and
Speaker 1: you generally, I you know, generally, I felt bad for him.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he got the money, he got
Speaker 1: the deal, and I found myself feeling sorry for him.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. It's just a it's just a
Speaker 1: weird it's a weird, constantly evolving set of emotions. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have been very reactionary,
Speaker 1: most notably I think the PGA tour like it's been
Speaker 1: very it just seems all very reaction and the players
Speaker 1: reacting to each other and what's being said and text
Speaker 1: messages and you're not my friend anymore and you don't
Speaker 1: I'm not talking to you and f you and this
Speaker 1: and that and man like it's wild. There is a
Speaker 1: long history of money not making laugh. Yeah, that's well,
Speaker 1: there you go. Alan, Do you have a sense of
Speaker 1: how many Trump courses will be on the docket uh
Speaker 1: next year on the lib seris Yeah, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: going to say more than two. I mean they've they've
Speaker 1: got They've got two out of eight. They're going to
Speaker 1: add six more venues. You know that Trump is dying
Speaker 1: to get an event at Turnberry. That would just be
Speaker 1: an ultimate middle finger to the RNA or Aberdeen or yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, dune bag. I mean, um, but I think there,
Speaker 1: you know, Turnberry has a mystique. We all miss seeing
Speaker 1: the open at Turnberry. The RNA has made it very
Speaker 1: clear they're not going to take it there while Trump's
Speaker 1: still breathing, and so that to me would be a
Speaker 1: no brainer. Um yeah, I mean that That's part of
Speaker 1: what's wild here is I think we can all agree
Speaker 1: that gas prices may or may not cost Joe Biden
Speaker 1: any chance of of repeating as the president. Right, Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia can literally decide the next election. If they started
Speaker 1: pumping like crazy and they dropped gas prices by a
Speaker 1: dollar two dollars in the US, like Joe Biden's chances
Speaker 1: of getting reelected or any Democrat goes way up if
Speaker 1: they hold a hard line that's gonna make it, that's
Speaker 1: going to affect the presidential race in a profound way.
Speaker 1: And you know that in a few weeks a lot
Speaker 1: of the Saudi Arabian elite is going to be in
Speaker 1: bedminister at Trump's course where he's the master of ceremonies,
Speaker 1: and how many quiet little conversations are going to take
Speaker 1: place about Trump's future, about the election, about oil and
Speaker 1: like this little rinkyding golf tournament could affect the fate
Speaker 1: of the free world. And when you think about that,
Speaker 1: it makes your mind melt. But it's just true. And
Speaker 1: so that is a backdrop to all this is bigger
Speaker 1: than Graham mcdowalll's writer cup presidency. Chances like there is
Speaker 1: there are forces at work here that are very powerful.
Speaker 1: They're going to affect all of us and directly. And
Speaker 1: to think that, you know, this little this little circuit
Speaker 1: that Greg Norman has put together could could could determine
Speaker 1: the United States presidency. This is not science fiction. I'm
Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theorist. This is like actual fact. It's wild. Well,
Speaker 1: can someone catch me up on what did Tom Freeman
Speaker 1: say in that podcast on Golfer's Journal about politics and
Speaker 1: golf bookmarked. I don't listen to what he's saying at
Speaker 1: I I just started listening. I literally I was. I'm
Speaker 1: about twelve minutes into it, um and when I had
Speaker 1: to jump on with you guys, and I read the
Speaker 1: summary and and Tom Friedman, you know who I've always
Speaker 1: really highly respect and actually got a chance to play
Speaker 1: Pine Valley with at one point in my life with
Speaker 1: with with Jerry Tardy and fascinating, you know, his ability
Speaker 1: to simplify really complex situations I've always marveled at. And
Speaker 1: you know his is what I've taken so far is
Speaker 1: this general sense that politics doesn't have a place in golf,
Speaker 1: not in our local community. When we show up and
Speaker 1: we're playing golf, we're having conversations this you know, the
Speaker 1: game should be sort of void of politics, that this
Speaker 1: should be a place where we get together and and
Speaker 1: sort of uh get we can have these relationships to
Speaker 1: cultivate this the camaraderie the game does without having to
Speaker 1: worry about who you vote for and why before the
Speaker 1: politics of the implications of of sort of the politics
Speaker 1: and having its place sort of in the general conversation
Speaker 1: around the game. That very idealistic. That's but I mean
Speaker 1: it would be nice. I mean it's refreshing. And that's
Speaker 1: you know when he said it. When I when I
Speaker 1: first heard it, it was like, well, that's what I
Speaker 1: love about goat Hill Park in my community golf course
Speaker 1: and my municipal is that we're all getting together and
Speaker 1: it's about the round, the families, the camaraderie, the match,
Speaker 1: you know, the monthly battle, the score that did you
Speaker 1: shoot your best score? A great shot? There's just everybody
Speaker 1: wants everybody to play, well, you know, what's the next tournament.
Speaker 1: I you know, it's really kind of refreshing that at
Speaker 1: goad Hill Park that it's not about politics, right, but
Speaker 1: um I remember everyone that's lovely and I and then
Speaker 1: the whole world agrees that the in the world will
Speaker 1: be a better place with more of that. But in
Speaker 1: years and years ago, I was playing bell Air and
Speaker 1: we were traveling around and Eddie Murton said, where are
Speaker 1: you guys going next to? So we're going to the
Speaker 1: Valley Club. Eddie Murtons didn't know me from Adam Eddiemurtins,
Speaker 1: a long time pro at bill Air. He says, well,
Speaker 1: tell you something about that Valley Club. What I like
Speaker 1: about it is they checked their politics and their religion
Speaker 1: at the door. It was just such stunning thing for
Speaker 1: him to say because he know me and it was
Speaker 1: so personal. And of course it's a great way to
Speaker 1: go around business. And if we gather, you know, with
Speaker 1: playing with whomever at any public course and people are
Speaker 1: civil to each other and played by the rules and
Speaker 1: enjoy each other's company, that's all great. But when the
Speaker 1: PGA made when the PGA of America made a decision
Speaker 1: to move the PGA Championship from Trump Beadminster to Tulsa,
Speaker 1: that was a political decision. Well yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: the thing. And understand that a lot of people say,
Speaker 1: I don't want politics and sports, but politics and sports
Speaker 1: have been bedfellows since at least the Berlin Olympics in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six. I mean, this goes way back. Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali is so revered because of his political stances. And
Speaker 1: what's the defining image of the Olympics. It's it's John
Speaker 1: Carlos and Tommy Smith and the raised gloves, I mean
Speaker 1: of any Olympics. And you know, you can go on
Speaker 1: down the list and you know, what are the most
Speaker 1: important golf developments in our since we've been covering the game. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods victories is probably the top of the list,
Speaker 1: but Shoal Creek is right up there. The Augusta National
Speaker 1: membership controversy is right up there. Now Live Golf. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just you can't hide from reality. You can't exist
Speaker 1: in a bubble. It's a it's a wonderful idea, but
Speaker 1: you know, we got the golf rolls made up of
Speaker 1: human beings, and we are all defined by these forces
Speaker 1: and these beliefs that we hold and we carry. And
Speaker 1: um so I like what Tom Freeman is saying, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a little to me, um naive. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just especially this moment that we're in right now.
Speaker 1: And um and yeah, well let's listen. We should probably
Speaker 1: all listen to the to the podcast before I don't
Speaker 1: want to pick up phrase Tom Freeman. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the hook right out of the gate in the in
Speaker 1: the podcast is so, I mean, I want to hear
Speaker 1: his full sort of articulation of it, his kind of
Speaker 1: perspective before I really get too hard on Tom, you know,
Speaker 1: or make it sound like you know, he's saying something
Speaker 1: that's because again, we're all making good points as to
Speaker 1: how it all trickles in and out and into our world,
Speaker 1: and golf is our world, so it's it's gonna it's
Speaker 1: gonna be there, whether whether we like it or not.
Speaker 1: But there are a few people on the political landscape
Speaker 1: more nuanced than Tom Freeman. But I'm pretty sure you
Speaker 1: did an excellent job for Gichi in the nineteen seventy team.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really looking forward to the Open week again.
Speaker 1: I think it's another place, the home of golf, the reverence,
Speaker 1: the respect, the history one hundred and fifty years, you know,
Speaker 1: and and part of me feels like another aspect of
Speaker 1: what's what's going to take place with the development of
Speaker 1: liv and the PGA tour is is amplifying the meaning
Speaker 1: of major championships. I think the fact that the fields
Speaker 1: do come together and that this is the fields that
Speaker 1: are going to determine a major championship winner in a
Speaker 1: way makes that more interesting one million percent absolutely, And
Speaker 1: it does become these guys, these guys want to win
Speaker 1: the Open because at Saint Andrew's and that's the only
Speaker 1: thing that really matters. But if if if it's Dustin
Speaker 1: or it's Brooks or it's one of these guys who
Speaker 1: plays on the live tour that's actually really important for
Speaker 1: that tour right now where there's a lot of talk
Speaker 1: about it, it's just it's all these guys past their prime,
Speaker 1: and um, we don't need them and they can all
Speaker 1: just go cast their checks and they're they're not relevant anymore.
Speaker 1: Like if a live guy does win There's it's the
Speaker 1: most prestigious thing on the planet. And open at St.
Speaker 1: Andrew's that is the top of the pyramid and even
Speaker 1: more than a US Open and Pebble Beach or you know,
Speaker 1: probably even more than a Master's, like because they only
Speaker 1: come around every five or seven years. You win and
Speaker 1: open at Saint Andrew's, that that is the crowning moment
Speaker 1: of any golfer's career. And if it's one of these
Speaker 1: live guys, it does just add a whole subtext to it.
Speaker 1: So again, you can't escape this stuff no matter what.
Speaker 1: Dj A US open at Oakmont, a Master's and it
Speaker 1: opened at Saint Andrews. Even contending for an open at
Speaker 1: Saint Andrews and doing with a certain amount of style
Speaker 1: as as Arnold did and Watson did, elevates you in
Speaker 1: the game. Yep, completely agree with you know, just a
Speaker 1: quick note about met what you were saying about the
Speaker 1: Four Majors, um like I love tennis, I don't follow
Speaker 1: it closely. I followed the four Majors. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what they do the other weeks of the year.
Speaker 1: I don't understand the Davis Cup. I really just don't.
Speaker 1: And Jim Carter has explained it to me, and I
Speaker 1: still don't really understand it. That's about me, not you, Jim,
Speaker 1: if you're listening. But the other day I'm watching Wimbledon
Speaker 1: and it's two women I haven't heard of, and they're
Speaker 1: playing the quarterfinals. One's a young woman, one's a married mom.
Speaker 1: And the married mom's slice slice, slice, slice, slice shots
Speaker 1: and she wins, and she's German, she speaks perfect English,
Speaker 1: and she says it is such a pleasure to play here.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Wow, that's the whole thing, and
Speaker 1: that's what that's what we're going to have four times
Speaker 1: a year from now and forever, and we're going especially
Speaker 1: gonna happen next week at the Old Course. What a
Speaker 1: players in the year. And it really doesn't mean of
Speaker 1: get Poston wins or if Louis wins or whomever wins,
Speaker 1: they've won on the old course. Like you guys were
Speaker 1: saying just a minute ago, that's really to quote the
Speaker 1: ad what it's all about. It's not the ad, it's life,
Speaker 1: that is what it's all about. And that's why word
Speaker 1: excited right now. I love it. What I should say
Speaker 1: that where are you are? You were in Ireland, I'm
Speaker 1: in Dublin, I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm here. I left
Speaker 1: a Dare manner this afternoon and I'm gonna play a
Speaker 1: couple more rounds Old Head Sea Point and they're kind
Speaker 1: of redoing that there and and car Golf's involved in that.
Speaker 1: So I'm going out up there with Marty. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go back to a Dare and going too a
Speaker 1: wedding on Sunday. Then Monday we're doing some shooting for
Speaker 1: the Grind, catching up with a couple of the prominent
Speaker 1: Irish players that are that are on the way up
Speaker 1: and telling their stories, and then Tuesday off to Sandrews. Well,
Speaker 1: let's see. I think we should leave it there because
Speaker 1: we're going to tape an open preview that will be
Speaker 1: the three of us plus m Jeff Ogilvie's always such
Speaker 1: a great voice on these fire drills, and we'll drop
Speaker 1: that for Monday of Open week to really talk about
Speaker 1: the course, the history, the larger themes that don't involve
Speaker 1: live golf, and it's not something for the listeners to
Speaker 1: look forward to. And of course the three of us
Speaker 1: will be in Saint Andrews and we'll be doing all
Speaker 1: kinds of typing, podcasting, video storytelling, tweeting and you name it.
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be it's gonna be a fun week.
Speaker 1: We set the bar really high at the US Open
Speaker 1: a brookline as far as the amount of content. But
Speaker 1: and of course Ryan French will be at the Reno Tahoe.
Speaker 1: He'll be writing every day, so it's gonna be another
Speaker 1: big week for the fire Pit. And but this was
Speaker 1: a fun conversation and I think this is it's the
Speaker 1: first of many like this is gonna be an ongoing
Speaker 1: thing that we're gonna have to check back in as
Speaker 1: developments warrant. But any final thoughts before we go, gents, Well,
Speaker 1: my one quick fool final though would be parking. How's
Speaker 1: your job going? That's really good? I said, was Well,
Speaker 1: a big part of it is talking about golf and
Speaker 1: they're like, what a racket. Well, and by the way,
Speaker 1: we are a breakaway league. The fire Pit Collective is
Speaker 1: representative of not necessarily feeling good in kind of mainstream
Speaker 1: media and feeling maybe there's a different way of doing things.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can do it on our own. Maybe we
Speaker 1: can have more control over who we are in the
Speaker 1: marketability of our own individual brands, and maybe we can
Speaker 1: start something and kind of innovate, uh, you know, distribution
Speaker 1: of storytelling through videos and podcasts and socials. And Matt,
Speaker 1: let me just say this about that. There are parallels,
Speaker 1: but we are independently owned and operated. Well it's here
Speaker 1: you go, all right, James. This was fun as it
Speaker 1: always is to the listeners. Thanks for baron with us.
Speaker 1: We will be in your ear a lot in the
Speaker 1: coming week from Saint Andrews, Scotland, one of the great
Speaker 1: places on the planet. So this is Alan Schipnak. That
Speaker 1: was Michael Bamberger and Matt Janelle. This is another fire
Speaker 1: Drill podcast in the books and we'll do it again soon.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Put another log on the fire nobody
Speaker 1: hears given time. M