1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: our superproducer Paul Mission controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: want you to know a very very fascinating episode. Matt. 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: This is something that you brought together with us and 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: it explores in a different way some of the topics 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: that we have touched on in our earlier shows. Oh yeah, 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: all all sorts of different things, everything from the nature 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: of human beings and how we like to exist with 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: one another two when that gets taken a little too 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: far to then how those experiences can influence and uh 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: and inspire. Yeah, we're talking about the the process of 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: art as well. You know, this is this is a 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: wide ranging This is a wide ranging thing. I know 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: some of us listening you are saying, guys, what what 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: are you actually talking about? We are not We are 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: not diving into these waters alone. We are joined today 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: with a very special guest, uh, the musician John Bryant, 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: who has a new album, Cult Classic releasing May seventeenth 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: of this year. You can preorder it on Amazon now. 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. John, Hey guys, thanks for having me. Well, 27 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: and I have to jump in really quick. Yeah, but 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: a very lovely opening there, But I gotta say you 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: Bury the lead ever so slight just a little bit. Yes, 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: we're absolutely talking about are We're talking about the things 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: that make human and thrive and that you know, allow 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: us to express ourselves. But we're also talking about a 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: very specific type of experience, and that's being a member 34 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: of occult and the nature of that and the term 35 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: itself and how no one in a cult calls a 36 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: cult occult, you know, and that's a movement, it's a 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: movement or it's an idea. But we have in John, 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: not only a very talented musician, but someone who I 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: don't know, if you use the term escaped, and that's 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: something that you here come up and maybe it's not 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: your experience, but someone that has been in a situation 42 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: and then is no longer in that situation. With the 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Nexium group or let's call it what it is, a cult. Yeah, 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: as you said earlier, I don't feel like I ever 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: had to escape it, but it was, it was it 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: was harder to leave than I thought I should say. Yeah, well, okay, 47 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: so I want to get into that a little bit 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: more just escaping, more as a symbolic thing of maybe 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: your your own you know, your thoughts and your thought 50 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: processes and everything. But that's again that that might be 51 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: a strong word because ultimately a out of people, um 52 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: are able to find the silver lining in that kind 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: of thing. But let's let's jump in here and let's 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: talk about something that's a little more general level or 55 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: a little higher level. UM. Let's talk about tribalism. And 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: you know, we we we as humans are solitary. Sometimes 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: some of us, like, uh, like a few of us 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: in this room here are a little more introverted and 59 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: like to be by ourselves at times. But ultimately we're 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: looking for connection with other people, and you know, with 61 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: our interconnected world. Now it's all in these black screens 62 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: rather than or at least mostly on these black screens 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: rather than in person. And uh, just what what do 64 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: you think about that? Where? How do you feel about 65 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: society right now, John, And and kind of where we 66 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: are with our interconnectedness, Well, I mean you walk outside 67 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: and I now kind of intentionally bump into people when 68 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: they're looking on their phones and walking because it's everywhere 69 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: people are. People are inundated with information and they're addicted 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: to it. So, um, they're kind of in this in 71 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: this bubble of of information and they can go to 72 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: whatever idea or ideology that they want and get sucked 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: in so easily because we have these devices that reinforce 74 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: those beliefs and and reinforce a feeling of I guess 75 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: importance and value. So so the more value you get 76 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: out of that device or that you know, just speaking 77 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: about bones for instance, it's just it's it's everywhere, you know, 78 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: and then it's spread in the politics obviously and another 79 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: other aspects of life. But yeah, it's everywhere I look, man, 80 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: And especially after this experience, UM, I pick it up 81 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: a little more in Tuneto that there's there's some incredible 82 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: stuff that we we found reading about your experience and 83 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: your journey. One line in particular really stuck out to me. John. 84 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: It was the it was the new that falling into 85 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: a belief system is like dying in your sleep. You 86 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: don't notice it when it happens. And something about that 87 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: struck me profoundly, and I think it ties into the 88 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: point about the ubiquity of smartphones. It's strange how quickly 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: the oddest things become normal for our species, you know. 90 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: And with that in mind, I was wondering, could you 91 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: could you tell us a little bit about your UM, 92 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: your initial encounters and how you how you came to 93 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: uh find yourself from Seattle to Vancouver, and how you 94 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: got involved with this group initially. Sure. So, I'm originally 95 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: from the East Coast of Canada. UM, and about nine 96 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: years ago I moved to Seattle. UM. I moved out 97 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: there for a girl, and UH I got married and 98 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: then I got divorced a year later. UM. It was 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: a it was a it was one of those mistakes 100 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: that I kind of reference and did what I did. 101 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: It's just, you know, one of those moments in life 102 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: when I when I when I just trusted and fell 103 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: into something that I shouldn't have fallen into. UM. Fast 104 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: forward about a year and a half, two years, UM 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: I decided to move back to Canada, but I moved 106 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: to Vancouver and UM sort of set up shop there. 107 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: I didn't know a lot of people. Um. I love 108 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: searching for new experiences and new um new groups and 109 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: new new friends. And so I found myself in Vancouver 110 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: kind of lonely and kind of just uh, in this 111 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: weird place that I hadn't been to in a long 112 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: or I hadn't been in it a long time. So um, 113 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: so I started making friends. I had some uh, some 114 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: people talk to me about this group that they were 115 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: part of, and it was it was kind of exclusive, 116 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: and it was all about bettering oneself, bettering the world. 117 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: It's about you know, growing your business. It opens you 118 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: up to new opportunities. It's been the best that this 119 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: is how it was explaining to me. It was the 120 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: best thing that that that these people had ever had 121 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: ever been introduced to. And these are people that I trusted, 122 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: people that I was I had been close to, these 123 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: are some of the One of the few people that's 124 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: the one that recruited me was somebody that I've known 125 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: for for a few years at that point. So it 126 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: took a few months of persuasion and you know, the 127 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: pitch of of of what are you waiting for? You know, 128 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: every moment you wait, you're losing out on this opportunity. 129 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: It's it's you know, wouldn't you if you knew you 130 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: could change your life in in in the most impactful ways, 131 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't you spend a couple a couple of thousand dollars 132 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: to just do that? To to be able to control 133 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: your emotions, to be able to control your anger. I 134 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: have like an anger problem, or I did at that time, 135 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: And so they kind of they kind of target your 136 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: weaknesses and then, um find a way to persuade you 137 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: to overcome those and become a part of this group. 138 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: And that's just in the recruitment process, before you were 139 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: even involved with the group officially. Oh yeah, yeah, that 140 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: was in the recruitment process. Yeah. There's this contagious energy 141 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: you know when you when because we all want to 142 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: belong to something larger than ourselves, right. I think, as 143 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: you noted earlier, this was another quote that really stuck 144 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: out to me. To be an occult is to be human, um, 145 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: And there's something with that, you know. To Matt's point 146 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: about tribalism, I'm wondering, when did you begin to feel 147 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: that maybe something was was a miss, Like when did 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: you get you know, the spidy Sense moment or the 149 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: twilight Zone music ever playing. Was Was there a moment 150 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: or was it a gradual process of disassociation. I think 151 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: that the first week of introduction, the intro course that 152 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: they do, it's it's a five day intensive. You show 153 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: up at seven o'clock in the morning and sometimes you'll 154 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: be staying until one or two a m. And that 155 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: will go on for five days straight. So there's there's 156 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: the the sleep deprivation UM that they kind of take 157 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: you through. And then they they limit your ability or 158 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: your They discourage leaving the room when things are going on, 159 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: when discussions are being talked about. They want you stay 160 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: engaged in the room, listening to the information that's being disseminated. 161 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: So we were never really like we were given water breaks, 162 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: but they were they were few and far between, and 163 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: then we'd have lunch and dinner UM. So I think 164 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: around the first few days, UM, I started to feel 165 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: strange because you show up in the morning, you know, 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: you'll be hanging out a bit, and then you go 167 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: in the room, UH, and there'd be a plaque on 168 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: the wall, a big, big plaque with UM text that 169 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: reads UM something to the tune of we promised to 170 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: like a bunch of it was basically a mantra to 171 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: keep um saying, we won't spread the this information to 172 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: anyone who's not a part of this group. We won't 173 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: talk about it. So it's like kind of like the 174 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: fight club moment where I was like, oh god, this 175 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: feels this feels strange. And at first I was like, oh, 176 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: this is kind of weird, but I'll get over it. 177 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: And then as it went on, I think it got worse, 178 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: but at the same time I was enjoying it. So 179 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: it was hard to Uh, it was hard to just 180 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: to let that aspect dictate um, my final decision. You 181 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: know what I was gonna do when the week was 182 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: over and if I was going to continue on with it, right, Um, 183 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: So it was tricky. And then they have the secret 184 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: handshakes and they have um wait really yeah, uh oh yeah, yeah, 185 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, okay, Well you can't you can't describe 186 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: that to us, right, I don't think I can't. I mean, 187 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I probably shouldn't. Um, it was strange, 188 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: I think, um yeah, there was there was some weird 189 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: nuances about that group that it was just this weird 190 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: like moment of Oh there, this is mind control, just 191 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: mind control one on one now. It was just so 192 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: funny thinking about it now, it's been a few years, 193 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: but I really enjoyed that week, and I can't get 194 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: away from that. I can't get away from the fact 195 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: that I like to the learning aspects. I like the people, 196 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: I liked the the group atmosphere. I like the tribalism 197 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: to a point, you know, to the point where I 198 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: consider I decided to go on for a few more 199 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: months with it, and that those are those weird, strange 200 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: behaviors and nuances didn't didn't bother me as much as 201 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: I now think they should. M John, tell tell me 202 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: more about the interactions between you and the other members. 203 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: Are the other people who were joining up? What is 204 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: that like? Did you get a sense early on that 205 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: there is a very specific pattern of beliefs that shared 206 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: almost immediately or is it something that when you're talking 207 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: to maybe I don't even know what the superior what 208 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: what would a superior person look like in the group, 209 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: like someone who's actually teaching. Um, I guess I want 210 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to know more about the structure of it. Yeah, So 211 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: they talked in the first day about the hierarchy of 212 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: the structure of the group, and they related it to 213 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: the military and to school systems. You know, you have 214 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,599 Speaker 1: the students, they have teachers, they have the deing of 215 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: the president, you know, and and the military is the 216 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: same thing, and they wear uniforms. We had sashes around 217 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: our necks, the velvety kind um scarves that we wore 218 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: around our necks. So in the room there were the beginners, 219 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: we were the new people, and we wore the yellow sashes, 220 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: and then the next group up, I can't remember the color, 221 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: but they were the moderators of the groups. So we 222 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: we we'd sit in a classroom setting, we'd watch a 223 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: video and then we'd go off break into groups and 224 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: talk about what was going on. Um, what we what 225 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: we you know, we would explain what we're saying. So 226 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: if they bring up the idea of belief, you know, 227 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: what is belief? And then we go into a group 228 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: and talk about, Okay, what is belief actually means? Can 229 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: we can we decide on on one definition one thing 230 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: and then we ten minutes talking about that. Then we 231 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: go back and to be what is truth and what 232 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: you know? So it's philosophical it's it's a psychological kind 233 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: of learning that you'd be doing in a group setting, 234 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: So you have a moderator and then the next group 235 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: up for the next level would be so level three, 236 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: I guess I can't remember the exact names for the levels, 237 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: but they had the the people that were in charge 238 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: of that UM Cities headquarters, so there would be that group, 239 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: and then the next group up after that would be 240 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the teachers from all the need that they would send out, 241 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: So we had one of those that was teaching the 242 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: entire week. Wow, okay, so sashes sashes. I I guess 243 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: I've never had a good visual for for that particular 244 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: or group, but I can actually see it now. It 245 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: makes me is there is there some kind of like 246 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: hierarchy sort of like belts and karate or something like that, 247 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: you get a different one depending on your level. I'm 248 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: just this is just like a shot in the dark question, 249 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: And that's exactly That's exactly it. Yeah, that's that's probably 250 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: the most similar to what to what their system was, 251 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: the karate, uh hierarchy. So we have different colored belts, 252 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: but they were sashes. And we'll continue our exploration of 253 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: nexium with John Bryant after a word from our sponsor, 254 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: and we're back. One thing that's inspiring about this is, 255 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of our listeners out there have 256 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: have delved into the stories of people who joined these 257 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: kinds of movements and then later become disillusioned, and you 258 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: while you hear a ton of different UH experiences, one 259 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: thing that's inspiring about this, at least from from my perspective, 260 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: is that it sounds as if you have you have 261 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: found UH useful knowledge through this, and it sounds like 262 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: it sounds like you were able to come away with 263 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: some positive lessons. Would you say that's accurate, That's absolutely accurate. Yeah. 264 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: I have no regrets about joining, and I have no 265 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: regrets about about the time I was in that group. 266 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: I think I think if I had staying longer, I 267 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: would have had regrets because there was more money to 268 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: be spent and there was time that they wanted from me, 269 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: you know. But I feel like I got in, I 270 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: had that experience and wrote it out for an appropriate 271 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: amount of time that that I got enough and for me, 272 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: I got enough about what was going on there that 273 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: I felt it was okay to leave. And I'll feel lucky. 274 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: I feel fortunately because I wanted to continue. But yeah, 275 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: and I appreciate that perspective. You know, if if you 276 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: if something is doing what you set out to accomplish, 277 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: then there's no reason to leave. But um or there's 278 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: no reason to think negatively about it. But knowing what 279 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: you know now about Keith and about the things that 280 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: were happening behind the scenes, I mean, were you aware 281 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: of any of that, of of some of the way 282 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: he was treating women and some of the kind of 283 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: recruitment that was a little bit more strong arm, kind 284 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: of borderline human trafficking kind of going on. Like was 285 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: this all shocking to you or what? What was your 286 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: perspective on that? Yeah, but I think the information that 287 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: came out was quite shocking because they painted a picture. 288 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: I never met Keith, but they really painted a picture 289 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: of him as being um the white dolly Lama. He 290 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: was the most ethical. They they actually said this that, 291 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, the most ethical and the most um the 292 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: smartest and most most ethical man alive. He was a 293 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: master problem solver. He graduated at the top of his 294 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: class with three degrees. You know, they went through this 295 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: whole list of accomplishments that keep that you know, he's 296 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: learning to speak in full sentences by the age of 297 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: one um classically trained piano. He could speak so many languages. 298 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: But it was some of it was came out to 299 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: be what what I what I've read is untrue, like 300 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: people that knew him in school and us. His gradesp 301 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: apparently was two point two six. So I don't think 302 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: it's very good She's nope. But at the same time, 303 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, he he was. He was kind of revered. 304 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: I believe he was referred to as Vanguard and he 305 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: you know, they celebrate his birthday and called it V Day. 306 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very much a worshipt worshiping kind of scenario. 307 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: Did that part strike he was odd? Did you come 308 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: from a background of like Eastern religion and that, so 309 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: it was maybe something along the lines of something that 310 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: you'd already been, you know, immersed in or I'm just 311 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: wondering what the jump was from seeing this and not 312 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: thinking it was a little strange. Yeah, No, I thought 313 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: the Vanguard thing was very strange because in the room 314 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: in the learning room, which had which had a higher 315 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: value than the rooms outside of of of that room 316 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: in the in the building that we were in, that room, 317 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: the specific room where we were learning, was to be respected, 318 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: and and there the bows before and after you'd leave, 319 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: So there were you know, the leaders of you or 320 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: the teachers, and some of the people that um ran 321 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: that that headquarters they bow when they leave. And then 322 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: I'd see people like my peers starting to do that, 323 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, this is so strange. So you 324 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: say you did think that part was strange, But what 325 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: was your background that maybe made an organization like this 326 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,719 Speaker 1: a little more palatable than maybe someone who came across 327 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: him was like, hau, I don't know, this is a 328 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: this is a little odd like it to me from 329 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: the start just reading about it, it it feels like a 330 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: scientology kind of situation, which I know is accepted by many. 331 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: And I just want to put out there that sixteen 332 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: thousand people in the US and Mexico took these courses, 333 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: so you are not alone. And this was not a small, 334 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: tight knit group. This was a very widespread a lot 335 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: of people, yeah, and a lot of them doctors and 336 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: lawyers and all sorts all of life. So back to yeah, 337 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: having to say vanguard. So in the room, which you 338 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: know I was saying, was to be revered, and respected 339 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: as the learning room. We would have to refer to 340 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: Vanguard or what this name, Keith, We had to refer 341 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: to Keith as as Vanguard. But outside of that room 342 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: we could say Keith. So that was that was weird 343 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: and I that was immediately. I was just I said, 344 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: I remember saying Keith, and then someone correcting means no, no, 345 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: it's Vanguard, you know, since this room is sacred. That 346 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: was the the kind of suggestions that were pushed my 347 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: way when I when I pushed up against it. And 348 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: we know that the there's such power in ritualism and symbolism, 349 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and and our brains, you know, are are hardwired to 350 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: seek out that kind of structure. But in the case 351 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: of of Keith, or excuse me, in the case of Vanguard, 352 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: um we what what we find is that of eventually, 353 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, eventually a lot of people started, 354 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: uh started finding plot holes in the official narrative right 355 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: of his talents, of his intelligence. And before we went 356 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: on the air today, John, we were chatting just a 357 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, Keith is actually as we record this 358 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: today on trial, is that correct? That's correct? Yeah, I 359 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: was reading the the story about it just now as well, 360 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: right before we came on the air, I was treating 361 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: what they were saying, and Yeah, what a day did this? Did? Uh? 362 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: Did the fact that it goes yea to the fact 363 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: that this has actually gone to trial. U when when 364 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: you first heard about, you know, the allegations and the 365 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: um the legal problems, was any of it? Was any 366 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: of it deeply surprising to you? Because it sounds like 367 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: by the time a lot of this stuff had come out, 368 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: you had already sort of moved on from the organization. Yeah. 369 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: I had been out for I'd say seven months at 370 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: that point. I think it was March Febuary tween seventeen. 371 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: I got a call about it. The one who recruited me, 372 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: My friend called and said, I just want you to know, 373 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: heads up, there's going to be some information coming you 374 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: up very soon. And and in short, she just said, 375 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: I've left the group, I left Mexican and um and 376 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: the information is quite a disgusting And then she didn't 377 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: say much more, and I was like, oh my, oh 378 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: my god, Like okay, So I just started googling and 379 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: and then the next day, two days more information came out. 380 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: And my friend Sarah is the one who whistle blew everything. 381 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: So oh my gosh, I applaud her. Wow, okay, um, 382 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: I I just have a couple of questions that aren't 383 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: even that important, but I'm just interested. Um, roughly, how 384 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: much did it cost? Roughly how much did it cost 385 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: to you know, join the group and then like be 386 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: there for however many weeks? So for the first week 387 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: it costs twenty four US I believe. Yeah, that's interesting. 388 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: I've seen some sources saying each course was upwards of 389 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: five thousand that have been for the whole course, So 390 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: it's like a multi week course that would be a 391 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: two week Yeah, that that'd be more of a two 392 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: weeks thing. They showed you five thousands and people did. 393 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there were countless courses you could take weekend retreats, 394 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: and they'd all be so expensive. And that was I 395 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: think the financial um cost was one of the major 396 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: factors in me getting out this before you know all 397 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: this information, you know, it was just like, I'm a musician, man, 398 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: My my income is limited. You know, I can't afford 399 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: I can't afford a five thousand dollar weekend, and and 400 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: why would I go to Albany? At least let's go 401 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: to the Bahamas. You know, like, I really enjoy this. 402 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: It makes it's in a way that you would have 403 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, doctors and lawyers and accomplished 404 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: musicians and other people who are joining it. Because there 405 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: is that paywall. It is kind of scary. We've heard 406 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: we've heard stories before in the past of people wanting 407 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: so badly to be in an organization like this that 408 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: you know, loans will be taken out and um, really 409 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: deteriorating financial situations. Yeah, there's there's also a bit of 410 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: a I guess a sunk cost fallacy that happens with people. 411 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: You know, when you get so involved, if you've spent 412 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars on something you know, you 413 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: you get to where where it might psychologically feel like 414 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: a point of no return. However, in your case, John, 415 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: in your case, UM, one thing that really um again, 416 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: I think I'm overusing the word inspired, but one thing 417 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: that inspired us was that you have used, in part 418 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: your experiences with this organization as UM as a way 419 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: to to to light the fire of your own artistic 420 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: exploration and expression. You you made it through this experience, 421 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: and would you say that this has informed the music 422 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: that you're making now. Yeah. Absolutely. When I found out 423 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: it was a cult, my immediate kind of thoughts were, um, 424 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: oh wow, I know what I can I know what 425 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to be writing about for a while. Um. 426 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: And it was hard to get away from because I 427 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: started writing songs about my experience and then trying to 428 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: write outside of that, my outside of the the concept 429 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: of a cult was hard. It became hard for me 430 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: during during the months that had passed, um since since 431 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: the information came out. And I never intended to write 432 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: a concept album and it's not it's not really strictly 433 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: a concept album, but it's it's very influenced by my experience, 434 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: and um, I do make reference most of the songs 435 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: to tribalism or called called behavior called you know, outside 436 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: of the typical idea of what it called his in 437 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: society and how we kind of pick and choose what 438 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: we want to believe. We'll just reinforce that to till 439 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: the cascome home, you know. Yea, So yeah, that's that, 440 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: that is definitely in there. Mhmm. Well let's let's get 441 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: into this a little more. We you mentioned the song, 442 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: or we both mentioned the song did what I did, 443 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: and that is on the album correct, mm hmm. Okay, 444 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: so this one you said it was influenced a bit 445 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: by by your previous relationship. Um, let's let's go ahead 446 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: and just as everybody together as a tribe. Let's listen 447 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: to a clip from Did What I Did, and we'll 448 00:25:47,560 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: come right back. I do what I did because I 449 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: wanted to. If that's so good? Cat that after two 450 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: so I was hat free, but I kept inside my 451 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 1: winner and you wi to hide your life's wrong and 452 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: I know just bads it shout. I've fought it out 453 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: and I've got no w's the nation, but I don't 454 00:26:52,600 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: know what the same love game away on. Okay, So 455 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: in my mind, John, that song it's fantastic. By the way, 456 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: that hook I've been singing in my car a lot, 457 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: uh loudly and and and arrange that I'm unable to 458 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: hit there's yeah. Yeah, it's really really good though, and 459 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: uh it's just okay. So you told us a little 460 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: bit about about what it is about. But is that all? 461 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Is that fully encompassed or is there? Um, is there 462 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: anything else that's going into this song? The video, the 463 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: music video, you can go online right now and watch 464 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: it if you have a computer near you. It is 465 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,719 Speaker 1: wonderful with with children. It's a bunch of children at 466 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: school who have done something terrible and they're they're taking 467 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: school photos, and it's really great to see the kids 468 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: dancing in this in their moment of rebellious, like their 469 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: rebellious nature to do something small like t peeing a 470 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: car or something um and then watching them have a 471 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: like regret in that moment that they're taking the school photos. 472 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: So like, did you have that feeling at some point 473 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: of reveling in something than leading to just full on regret. Yeah, 474 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: I have. I mean, I've had a number of those 475 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: experiences through my life. Yeah. But the idea of regret 476 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: is I'm not I'm not certain if if I'm totally 477 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: if I'm totally regretful of Yeah. I mean I think 478 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: I said earlier like I'm I don't regret going in it. 479 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: But there was an element of of of Shane. I 480 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: think that that started to me eight as the information 481 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: came out, like, oh man, I'm I was a part 482 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: of this in some way. You know, I wasn't a 483 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: part of anything that was going on, of course, but 484 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: but I paid money into this and I supported this man, 485 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: and these people that did these things, these horrible, disgusting 486 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: things to these people. So there was, you know, the 487 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: rebellion of of of And I guess I didn't mention earlier. 488 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: Like I grew up in church. I grew up in 489 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: a Protestant kind of Baptist denomination, um. And and then 490 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: I post divorce in two thousand thirteen, I kind of 491 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: left the church and I stopped, I stopped being a 492 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: part of it. And this sort of this organization sort 493 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,239 Speaker 1: of filled that void in some way, or so I 494 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: thought it would. Yeah, well, I I guess just the 495 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: song is so great, and you know that that main 496 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: the main lyric of I did what I did because 497 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to. Um. Yeah, it's just rings so true 498 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: for for I think all of us in a lot 499 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: of the things we do. We we live our lives, 500 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: and we to the best of our ability, we do 501 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: what we would like to do. Um. You know what 502 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: the consequences of these things are, they always exist in 503 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: It's that butterfly effect, right, um man. Oh, it's really 504 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: really good. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say here 505 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: and just keep the listening to it in my mind 506 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: for a little bit. You guys, go ahead and talk 507 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: for a while. Okay. So, UM, what we're touching on 508 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: here is is a a very personal specific story, but 509 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: it's also a touchstone for larger questions that it seems 510 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: our our species has um quarreled with for a long 511 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: time and continues to do one thing that we thought 512 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: would be UM of crucial importance to our audience here 513 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: is to to hear any advice you have for people 514 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: who are maybe involved in organization that that might be 515 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: damaging to them, or have a loved one who is 516 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: involved in something. Do you have do you have any 517 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: um any insight on how how people would um navigate 518 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: that kind of situation. Yeah, that's a great question. You 519 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: can't come at it as an adversary because you'll just 520 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: get shut down. There's there's no conversation, there's no constructive 521 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: conversation UM that would happen after, you know, if you 522 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: came in and as an adversary as somebody's critical of 523 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: the organization. UM. But it's it's a matter of getting 524 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: people to realize that there's there's something outside of it, 525 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: which is tricky and it's hard to do. But it's 526 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: all also very specific to that person. So, UM, what 527 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: I think why called flourish is because um, a lot 528 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: of people don't have safe places to go to or 529 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: they don't feel like they have safe places to go to, 530 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: and they don't have that if you have to fall 531 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: back on, if they left the cult they have, if 532 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: they don't have any or fall back on, they're only 533 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: going to become more invested in it. You know. I 534 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: think to turn away from something like a cult that 535 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: that eventually becomes your family, your social group, your your 536 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: entired um, your your entire life for evolves around this 537 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: this ideology and these people, Um, it's it's tough to 538 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: leave that, but it's not impossible, and it's you know 539 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people do it. They just need people. 540 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: And I think it's I think what it comes down 541 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: to is love. And you know, it's it's a cliche 542 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: thing to say, but but people that that that leave 543 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: they have those They have people around them that that 544 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: care enough to to walk with them even through the 545 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: time when they're in it so deep, and they'll help 546 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: them come out. I mean, that's that's I guess. It's 547 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: just to be present and not um and not exclude 548 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: that person from their life as they have um there, 549 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, their family or their friends. Then again, a 550 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: lot of people in the in the group kind of 551 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: cut off communication with that family. How difficult was it 552 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: to physically break away from the group. Were you pursued 553 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: at all? Yeah? Yeah, they I got calls and I 554 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: got I got questions from the the Albany office as 555 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: well as um my friend who is who is kind 556 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: of my recruit recruiter rather and she was asking if 557 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: I was going to be coming back at any point, 558 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: and I just I kind of kept putting it off. 559 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: The more I was out of it, the more I realized, oh, 560 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: I don't think I need this. I got what I 561 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: I got some information that I I thought was good 562 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: and the people were nice, but I didn't I wasn't um. 563 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: We weren't living in such close quarters that they became family. 564 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: The more time that passed that I was away from 565 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: it was, the easier it became to detach. And that 566 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: was I think about six months after I started was 567 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: it was when I really kind of like just quick going, Hey, 568 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: we're just going to jump in here and take a 569 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor. Then we'll get right back 570 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: into it and we're back with John Bryant. Were there 571 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: any other red flags that occurred to you when you 572 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: were inside the organization other than the vanguard and some 573 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: of the weird language and some of the spaces, because 574 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: I mean, you were in it, like more from the 575 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: perspective of getting being a self help situation? Right? Is that? 576 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: Is that how you would characterize it? Yeah? Yeah, just 577 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: from a learning standpoint, I thought it was a really 578 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: interesting thing to do. So what were if any any 579 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: other red flags that you saw, whether it was with 580 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: talking to people that you have, any interaction with folks 581 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: that were in this inner circle, or maybe things signs 582 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: that later when you had more context you could kind 583 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: of put together maybe there was something going on that 584 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: I just didn't understand the full scope of Yeah. I 585 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: I remember telling somebody there that I'd like to tell 586 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: my girlfriends about some of this stuff, and it was 587 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: very like it wasn't taken well, and it was it 588 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 1: was highly discouraged talking about what I was learning, talking 589 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: about some stuff that I was, you know, learning through. Um. 590 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: That was really weird that that gave me kind of shivers. 591 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: Um just being being told that I can't I can't 592 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: talk about what I'm what I'm doing here. That was 593 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: that was the biggest thing, is like, you're taking my 594 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: freedom of speech and a way, you're you're disabling my 595 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: my autonomy because I I should be able to talk 596 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: about stuff. Did you have to sign any kind of 597 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: India or any kind of paperwork when you signed up 598 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: like that? You know, kind of codified that closed stuff? Yeah? Yeah, 599 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: I mean Claire Bronfman has gone after lots of people 600 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: that have talked and spoken out about what's you know, 601 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: what was going on. Even back in two thousand twelve, 602 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: there were some things that were coming some odd uh 603 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what it was, but but she 604 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: she sued people. She really went after you. And she's 605 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,919 Speaker 1: she's the daughter of the Seagram's uh fortune, so she's 606 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: a she's half a billion dollars net worth, so she 607 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: has the financial means to go after these people and 608 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: really hurt them. So a lot of people. That's why 609 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: there wasn't a whole lot of when I kind of 610 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: got into it, I did some research and I couldn't 611 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: find a whole lot about it because I think she 612 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: just went after people and and and sue them. We're 613 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: threatened to sue them. Wow. So the things. Okay, the 614 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: stuff that they literally don't want you to know. Um, 615 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: people are being prosecuted for that stuff right now. But 616 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: when it gets to the when it gets to the 617 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: I guess the spiritual belief system or the higher higher 618 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: level belief system. Is there any of that that we 619 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: can talk about? Where is that all the the no, 620 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: don't talk about it stuff. Um. They didn't push any 621 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: any specific spiritual doctrines. They it seems they seemed pretty humanist, 622 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: like we have the potential two to be like God's 623 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: in a way. That's what it That's what it came 624 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: across as at least, and and Keith is the one 625 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: guy who's accessed all this knowledge. So it seems it 626 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: felt like psychology meets scientology, but without any of the reading. 627 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: So they did they did. They did these things called 628 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 1: e ms that were UM emotional it's exploration of meaning 629 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: you'd sit on a chair and then the the group 630 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: leader would walk you through, Um what yeah, an exploration. 631 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: I mean you go through you go into your childhood. 632 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: If you had some sort of hang up in your life, 633 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: say anger, or you you you can't be on time, 634 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: or you you blurt out you know such and such 635 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: at the wrong time or you know, anything that to 636 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: hang up in your life, you can go back and 637 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: you can find the moment in your life when that started, 638 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: and you can change that narrative. So it was it 639 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: was quasi psychology scientology kind of stuff. And and you know, 640 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: if if people had jealousy issues, they they miraculously stop 641 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: being jealous where they'd stopped getting angry. So that's really dude. 642 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: That's really interesting though, because it's also just counseling or 643 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's something that a lot of 644 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: us probably need, us, myself included. So it's that's real. 645 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: That's that's fascinating. Yeah, I think now that I've done 646 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: a bit of research, you know, it's been a few years, 647 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: I've done research on what you know, the scientific community, 648 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: the psychological community have said about similar things, and it 649 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: seems like he just took a lot of different ideas 650 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: from different branches of of of education and psychology and science. 651 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: You just sort of like repackage and rebranded this this 652 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: belief system. You haven't really talked about it. He's being 653 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: charged for child pornography and having sex with a fifteen 654 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: year old and it's really gruesome stuff. Um, and he 655 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: and he got people to go along with it, and 656 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: and people knew and nothing was done well. And not 657 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: to mention this kind of subgroup that Alison Mack and 658 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: others were involved in, the kind of recruiting of the 659 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: I guess the personal yeah, the inner circle, but it 660 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: really felt more like recruiting personal members of some kind 661 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: of secret harem almost I guess that was just for 662 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: the leader or the vanguard. Um. How does that hit 663 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,479 Speaker 1: you is? I mean that that almost seems like even 664 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: that was lower buried, more so than even the kind 665 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: of surface level strange dealings that were going on. This 666 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: was something that only certain people knew that was directly 667 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, for the sexual supplication of this man. Yeah, 668 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: I mean that was that was quite a shock to 669 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: the system. I mean that was that was the moment 670 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: of like of shame, I think of being a part 671 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: of the group like that or being associated in any 672 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: way with that. Yeah, that that felt weird and an 673 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: uncomfortable feeling. Again, it just you know, allowed me to write. 674 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of what I really glean from 675 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: it was this this discomfort, So now I kind of 676 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: search out for discomfort. I want to be uncomfortable and 677 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: in life too, to a point. You know, I don't 678 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: want to I don't I don't want suffering, but I 679 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: think it's good to be uncomfortable and to be put 680 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: in difficult situations because well, you learned, you learned so 681 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: much from it. Absolutely agree. You know that it's funny 682 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: because sometimes we give we give cliches a rough time, 683 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: but cliches are often only cliches because they're true and 684 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: the things that we survive do make us stronger in 685 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: the end, you know. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I've been so 686 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: much for sure. Well, John, we're gonna play another one 687 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: of your songs, at least a clip from it. It's 688 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: a song called Cultivated. Can you tell us about it 689 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: before we we play it, because we're going to play 690 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 1: the song and then we'll come back and wrap up 691 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: the show. Um, just tell us about Cultivated. Yeah. So, 692 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: Cultivated was written sort of from the perspective of a relationship, 693 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,959 Speaker 1: but the overarching relationship of like the the cult member 694 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: to the cult is sort of what I'm sort of 695 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: using the imagery of the metaphors to emphasize that sort 696 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: of relationship. But it could be, you know, a toxic 697 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: relationship between you know, lovers or between family members. So 698 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: um yeah. It just emphasizes how difficult it is for 699 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: people believe. And it's about some of my friends that 700 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: were in it, and we're stuck in it for so long, 701 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: and and you've lost so much of their life and 702 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: their energy to it. Man, there's some great lyrics in 703 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: this thing. All right, well, let's go ahead and listen 704 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: to this. This is cultivated by John Bryant. M h. 705 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: It's suffixation. I'm cultivating it. It's not what I do, 706 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: but what you want. But now you're asking for the 707 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: primness out game. Keep you like to see me on money, 708 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: pagging for the silent when you scream, sticking damp to 709 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: the dance of Fieltion, hanging on to do it my love? 710 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: I like on all likely, I don't know under the 711 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: water fills my this ground wash has swallowed up. It's you. 712 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: You can follow from this game see secretcy Side when 713 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: you stream. Oh man, this is another song that is 714 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: now just rattling around in my head. Thank you so much, Sean. 715 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: Because he will not leave. It's going to be there wherever. 716 00:43:53,520 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: Oh Unfortunately, we we won't have the episode going on forever. 717 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 1: We wish we could play the whole album of folks. 718 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: You'll have to you'll have to hear it for yourselves. 719 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: But there is one last thing that we absolutely could 720 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,919 Speaker 1: not could not let go while we while we had 721 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: you here with us on the show. And uh, that's 722 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,319 Speaker 1: that's the music video. Let's talk a little bit about that. 723 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: Yeah two to me, I mean, the video is as 724 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: compelling as the song. Um it. It depicts what you 725 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: could describe as a cult kind of ritual or a 726 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: recruitment process, but it's more the kind of Manson type 727 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: cults of the sixties where there's some kind of guru 728 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: given people what presumably is LSD or could be something 729 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: else and it doesn't really doesn't really matter. But it 730 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: also or like you know, it's it's like almost I 731 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: look at it's like a metaphor for like this offering 732 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: of truth and then it all kind of on wines 733 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: and becomes you know, you see what this really means. 734 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 1: And it parallels the lyrics in the song too. Can 735 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: you kind of walk us through a little bit just 736 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: just it's also just a baptism that's actually what I see. 737 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: I see a baptism um when because I grew up 738 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: Christian too, But so anyway, let's just put that in there. Yeah, 739 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: I uh, you certainly touched on a lot of what 740 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: the video was intended to demonstrate, um and and growing 741 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: up Christian, you know, I used I used some of 742 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: the strange kind of offshoot Christian cult like the you 743 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: know groups that that sell these products to you know, 744 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: that that will heal you, or that will give you 745 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: enlightenments and will make your lives better. You'll you'll you'll 746 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: get money, or you'll get fame, or you'll get you know, 747 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: all your all your ailments will lead you. And the 748 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: idea was we we made an infommercial that that was 749 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: before the song. Now it's a separate part of the video, 750 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: I think, but you can still see it. It's on 751 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: my YouTube page where you know it's this man it was. 752 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: It was really weird to release it because no one 753 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: knew what was going on. We just released the infommercial first, 754 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: and then a few weeks later we released the video 755 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: with the informercial um. So people were like, what the 756 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,280 Speaker 1: heck is it going on? You man, this is so weird, Um, 757 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: what are what's going on? John? And uh, But basically 758 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,919 Speaker 1: it sets it up this man is super positive. He's 759 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: he's he's uh, he's kind of the guru type, but 760 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 1: he's he's sort of like a failing also sort of 761 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: a failing cult leader like he he's sort of doesn't 762 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: look like the success story that that usually cult leaders project. Um. 763 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: And then the video happens and that you see this 764 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: group lined up and they're always seeing this this this 765 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: magical elixir, this tincture of of whatever their dreams or 766 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: whatever they want in life. That's kind of what it represents, um, 767 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,479 Speaker 1: so enlightenment or healing or whatever. And then the video 768 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: ends with them all dying, they all perish, they'll you know, 769 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: fall prey to this man, and this man uh walks away, 770 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,320 Speaker 1: and then throughout the video, I'm kind of singing the 771 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,879 Speaker 1: song and then at the end of it, I help him. 772 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm the one that survived or I'm his his his protege, 773 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: and I'm filming him for his next his next video, 774 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: which is kind of throwing it back to the informercial. 775 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 1: So it's very dark. It's a very dark, somber video, 776 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: and the informercial is the complete opposite. It's very corny 777 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: and and uh and lighthearted. Yeah, see now, in my mind. 778 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 1: In my mind, that was taking us back in time 779 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: to show you shooting the first video with him as 780 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: like you were the you were the inside guy. Basically, yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, 781 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: that that's that's that's also the one of the ways 782 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 1: that we kind of wanted it to be interpreted. Either 783 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: that or or I'm helping him on the next one. 784 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: But yes, either or either way. Super creepy and wonderful 785 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: video to an awesome song. Don't take our word for it. 786 00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: You can check that out today. John Bryant, thank you 787 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show with us, and 788 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: thank you for introducing everyone to a peek behind the curtain. 789 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that these sorts of 790 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: experiences are always intensely personal, and it's powerful to be 791 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,959 Speaker 1: able to to speak with someone who has firsthand experience 792 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: with things that you know, many people just read about 793 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: in the paper weeks after it happens. So again, as 794 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: I said, we'd love to play the full album on 795 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,839 Speaker 1: our show, but but I don't think we could get 796 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 1: away with that. Network said we could, but I don't know. 797 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: We'll see. Maybe maybe after the album yeah around, Yeah, 798 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: maybe we should wait till the album's out. But in 799 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: the meantime, where can our listeners go if they would 800 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,240 Speaker 1: like to hear more of your work or learn more 801 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: about your process in your music. Um, you can go 802 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: to my any platform that that has my music, which 803 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: would be Spotify, Apple, Pandora, Amazon, um and any of 804 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 1: the major ones deser in France, like it's it's everywhere. 805 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: All my music is online and you can listen for 806 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: free on YouTube, um or or those platforms. And then 807 00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 1: I have a website as well that that has a 808 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: bio and all that. So people want to learn more, 809 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: please follow me on Instagram kind of on my day 810 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: to day. I'm pretty active on that and then uh yeah, 811 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: lot lots coming out though in the next few weeks 812 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: with videos and then um the album comes out on 813 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,879 Speaker 1: May seventeen. So yeah, just gearing up for a big year, 814 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: lots of touring in North America, Europe and in Australia. Yeah, 815 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,840 Speaker 1: it's very exciting. Are you. Are you touring with anybody 816 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,399 Speaker 1: in particular? Uh, in Europe with Radical Face and then 817 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 1: in North America we're still figuring that out, remember Radical Face. 818 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah that's awesome. Yeah, Well, let us know if you 819 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: make it down to Atlanta. We will. You know, it's 820 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,240 Speaker 1: not the perfect city, but we have we have amazing food. 821 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,439 Speaker 1: I've dealt with that I would love. I'm I'm so 822 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: sad I'm not there right now. We were hoping to 823 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 1: do it in person, but maybe we can do it again. 824 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: And either way, hit us up when your back and 825 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: we'll have a beer and just chat more about music 826 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: and cults. Yes, and we want to come to your concert, 827 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,799 Speaker 1: so yeah, just let us know. In the meantime, I'll 828 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: join another cult and then write another album so we 829 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: can do this again in two years. Yeah, sounds like 830 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,320 Speaker 1: you're really taking one for the team, my friend. Okay, 831 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,720 Speaker 1: good because I was next up in our cult rotation, 832 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: so I'll dodge that one, okay. So thanks as thanks 833 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Paul Mission Controlled Decond. 834 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 1: Thanks to you, John Bryant. Check out the music stay 835 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: tuned for the album coming out in May. We want 836 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: to hear your stories, folks, your personal experiences with the organizations. 837 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: When did you learn that something you thought was maybe 838 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 1: self help or multi level marketing or something. When did 839 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: you learn that there was something amiss? You can let 840 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,399 Speaker 1: us know about your stories on our Facebook page. Here's 841 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,279 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy or Instagram or Twitter. We're all 842 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: over the place on the internet. Yeah, and if you 843 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: don't want to do that stuff, you can call us 844 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: and leave a voicemail. You get three minutes. Uh, it's 845 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty great. You can leave five three minute messages 846 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,799 Speaker 1: if you want to tell us a whole story, or 847 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: you can keep it super brief. Either way, we'd be 848 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: happy to hear from you, and you might get on 849 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,359 Speaker 1: the air. Our number is one eight three three st 850 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: d w y t K. I've been listening to messages 851 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,800 Speaker 1: all week. Y'all are amazing. Keep doing it. Uh, okay, 852 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,320 Speaker 1: But if you don't want to leave a message, you 853 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,240 Speaker 1: don't want to do that stuff, you don't like social media, 854 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: you can also contact us the good old fashioned way. 855 00:51:41,120 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. M Stuff 856 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know is a production of 857 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,840 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my 858 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 859 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.