Speaker 1: After Laura was barred from speaking with Clayton, she became
Speaker 1: hyperactive online. She began repeatedly reaching out to online content
Speaker 1: creators like Dave Neil to refute their claims. Around this time,
Speaker 1: Dave got an interesting email from a Howard University student.
Speaker 2: It is basically a press release that is titled Unpacking
Speaker 2: Racial Insensitivity by somebody named Chase Jay Jones. This whole
Speaker 2: unpacking of racial insensitivity is Clayton dancing on TikTok to
Speaker 2: a song where the song had the ndword.
Speaker 1: It seemed like Clayton couldn't catch a break. Dave tried
Speaker 1: to reach out to Chase J. Jones to talk on
Speaker 1: the phone.
Speaker 2: Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't
Speaker 2: report this story if I can't even confirm who this
Speaker 2: person is.
Speaker 1: But Chase kept following up asking Dave to cover the story.
Speaker 1: The fact that Chase wouldn't get on the phone raised
Speaker 1: a larm bells for Dave. He and his audience began
Speaker 1: to suspect that maybe Chase J. Jones didn't exist at all.
Speaker 2: Chase J. Jones became the most interesting like lockness monster,
Speaker 2: a Bigfoot if you will, a mystery.
Speaker 1: Dave started to wonder if the Howard University student emailing
Speaker 1: him was actually who he said he was. I'm Stephanie
Speaker 1: Young and this is love trapped.
Speaker 3: There's no way.
Speaker 4: You'd better believe.
Speaker 1: I'll be razy the hells.
Speaker 5: If you ever, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 6: Trati.
Speaker 1: On November two, twenty twenty three, a judge granted Clayton
Speaker 1: Eckered an injunction against harassment. You heard those proceedings on
Speaker 1: the last episode. That meant Laura was legally prohibited from
Speaker 1: speaking to Clayton. For Clayton, the legal barrier worked. The
Speaker 1: messages finally stopped, but the silence was an illusion. Laura
Speaker 1: had found a new focus.
Speaker 7: Laura then started harassing journalists who were telling this story.
Speaker 2: She contacted me within the first video or two where
Speaker 2: I started to doubt her story.
Speaker 8: I'm sending you this email because I'm required to give
Speaker 8: you thirty days to retract your false statements before I
Speaker 8: sue for defamation.
Speaker 3: She reports my video and it gets taken down.
Speaker 1: By filing to establish paternity in the courts and by
Speaker 1: going to the tabloids, Laura had opened the door to
Speaker 1: public commentary. After her restraining order hearing was live streamed.
Speaker 1: Everyone online knew her name, she couldn't hide clips from
Speaker 1: the hearings were going viral. Dave Neil started getting more
Speaker 1: frequent emails from Laura. She was not happy.
Speaker 2: It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on
Speaker 2: your neck immediately go up when you see you get
Speaker 2: an email from Laura Owens.
Speaker 1: Dave had been covering Laura and Clayton's story nearly every
Speaker 1: day since it first broke His audience were the ones
Speaker 1: who first discovered her name and inconsistencies, and the evidence
Speaker 1: she provided. Dave became a lightning rod, a target of
Speaker 1: Laura's rage.
Speaker 2: I was threatened nearly immediately by Laura that she was
Speaker 2: going to sue the hell out of me if I
Speaker 2: cover this.
Speaker 1: Laura might have seen Dave as the instigator of the
Speaker 1: doubt and criticism she was experiencing, but the truth was
Speaker 1: the story had taken on a life of its own.
Speaker 1: It basically took over the Bachelor read it so much
Speaker 1: so that a new sub was established are Slash Laura Owens.
Speaker 3: This one was dedicated to Laura Owens and things we
Speaker 3: found out about her and about her past.
Speaker 1: This is a woman who goes by the online user name.
Speaker 3: Schnitzel Ninja thought it sounded funny and never really anticipated
Speaker 3: it was going to be as popular as it is.
Speaker 1: She's not a content creator. She's a mom with a
Speaker 1: job that has nothing to do with being online, and
Speaker 1: she's a casual fan of The Bachelor. Back in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, she had a habit of scrolling through Bachelor News.
Speaker 3: It was very much like a lurker online until that
Speaker 3: our Laura Owen sub was created. That's when I really
Speaker 3: started interacting. We're all doing all of this research on her,
Speaker 3: but like there's always another thing to uncover, there's always
Speaker 3: another thing we found.
Speaker 1: She got sucked into the story and I can relate today.
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja is a central figure in the online community.
Speaker 1: We're not going to use her real name because of Laura.
Speaker 3: She's intimidating and doesn't shy away from threats.
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja stumbled into the story by accident in September
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. She was browsing the Bachelor reddit when
Speaker 1: she came across Laura's post, the one where Laura said
Speaker 1: she was the anonymous woman in the Clayton Echered paternity scandal.
Speaker 1: She believed Laura, because who would lie about something like that.
Speaker 3: I remember commenting on the post something like, I'm really
Speaker 3: sorry this is happening to you. I really hope Clayton
Speaker 3: steps up and gives you the support you're looking for.
Speaker 3: I was just taking it at face value, and it
Speaker 3: sounded like it could be legit.
Speaker 1: She later deleted that comment.
Speaker 3: It quickly became clear to me at least that Laura
Speaker 3: was like maybe lying about some things, and so I
Speaker 3: decided to start doing some research.
Speaker 1: At the time, Laura herself was active on Reddit, posting
Speaker 1: comments like this one, which will be read by a
Speaker 1: voice actor.
Speaker 7: Don't have any desire for Clayton to co parent anymore.
Speaker 7: I want full custody. I have very clearly stated I
Speaker 7: do not want a relationship with Clayton.
Speaker 1: The replies were brutal, some were downright cruel, and if
Speaker 1: you crossed the line.
Speaker 9: You just did this for attention and to distract from
Speaker 9: the paternity result, showing no baby. You need to stop
Speaker 9: abusing the legal system and get help first.
Speaker 4: You try to baby trap him. Now it's his fault
Speaker 4: he got too stone to consent. If he was too
Speaker 4: stone to consent, why did you give him a blowjob.
Speaker 1: Laura was clapping back in the comments. Here are some
Speaker 1: of her replies, You're wrong, thanks for the sarcasm.
Speaker 7: Though he gave me a gummy when I got to
Speaker 7: his house, which he would admit so not sure how
Speaker 7: that would make me baby trapping him. We consensually did
Speaker 7: stuff when we were both under the influence.
Speaker 1: Eventually, someone reported the subreddit and it was banded. Users
Speaker 1: like schnitzel Ninja were still active on YouTube, but Laura
Speaker 1: began reporting YouTube videos and sending threats of legal action
Speaker 1: to the people who posted them.
Speaker 3: Laura was reporting people's videos, reporting this, reporting that, trying
Speaker 3: to have this removed from the internet.
Speaker 1: The thing is Laura's case was in the public record.
Speaker 1: She couldn't stop people from commenting about it and sharing
Speaker 1: their opinion, but she had an incentive to try. Here's
Speaker 1: Dave Neil.
Speaker 2: If she could keep people from being able to share
Speaker 2: these documents, she could keep her lie up.
Speaker 1: At this point, citizens Fluse like schnitzel Ninja were personally
Speaker 1: invested in exposing the truth. From her perspective, Laura was
Speaker 1: repeatedly misusing public funds like the police and court system.
Speaker 3: It's a public court hearing and I was just like,
Speaker 3: don't do it if you don't want it on the internet.
Speaker 1: So she requested a physical copy of Clayton's Injunction against
Speaker 1: Harassment hearing.
Speaker 3: I found out you could quest these videos. I enlisted
Speaker 3: my husband and kind of had to tell him I
Speaker 3: was following this crazy case online.
Speaker 1: The DVD arrived in the mail. A few weeks later,
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja posted the video on YouTube. Someone reported the video,
Speaker 1: making a privacy complaint. According to YouTube policy, only two
Speaker 1: people would have been able to file that complaint, Laura
Speaker 1: or Clayton, and Clayton says it wasn't him, but Schnitzel
Speaker 1: Ninja was able to repost the video since the hearing
Speaker 1: was a matter of public record. So that's how it
Speaker 1: got started. For Schnitzel Ninja and dozens of others, Following
Speaker 1: the story became like a full time job. Laura was
Speaker 1: extremely upset about what people online were saying about her.
Speaker 1: She saw Dave Neil as kind of a ringleader. At
Speaker 1: this point, he'd received dozens of personal emails from Laura,
Speaker 1: including a cease and assist and an attempt to get
Speaker 1: a restraining order. Dave had never experienced anything like this.
Speaker 2: Before I was stuck, I was, for better or for worse,
Speaker 2: bonded to this lady in a way that I became
Speaker 2: the bad guy to her. And by the way, I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to convince anybody. Go out there, get on Google,
Speaker 2: come back to me. I'll see you in a couple
Speaker 2: of days.
Speaker 1: Dave's full time job was covering bachelor and pop culture news.
Speaker 1: Once Laura began singling him out.
Speaker 2: I was like, you came into my business, like I
Speaker 2: do this for a living. Buckle up. We will make
Speaker 2: as many videos as it takes to get this thing right.
Speaker 2: Justice doesn't always play out unless the public demands it.
Speaker 1: Laura sent a threatening email to a group of podcasters saying,
Speaker 1: if you decide to cover the story with just Dave's
Speaker 1: point of view, my intent is to sue for defamation.
Speaker 1: Laura also said in this email that she would be
Speaker 1: extremely appreciative if you would not cover this topic at all,
Speaker 1: and that if you do, you allow me to give
Speaker 1: my side of the story. Here's the thing. Numerous podcasters
Speaker 1: and creators have told me they gave her the opportunity
Speaker 1: to come on their shows, and she declined every single time.
Speaker 1: At the time, I'm recording this. She has not agreed
Speaker 1: to an interview with me either. Here's Dave's perspective on
Speaker 1: why she refused to talk on the record with people
Speaker 1: who were questioning her.
Speaker 2: She wanted a story out of it, but she didn't
Speaker 2: want to deal with the ramifications of being cross examined.
Speaker 1: Because Laura was reporting so many videos on YouTube, Dave
Speaker 1: Neil moved the bulk of his conversation about Laura to Patreon.
Speaker 1: It's a private community and subscription based platform for creators,
Speaker 1: and it felt like a safer place to talk about
Speaker 1: Laura because she was so litigious.
Speaker 2: People wanted to be in there, in like a sort
Speaker 2: of safe space in a private community to discuss this.
Speaker 1: That's when Dave started getting those emails we mentioned at
Speaker 1: the start of this episode, the ones from Chase J. Jones.
Speaker 1: Clayton got wind of it.
Speaker 10: A black university student that was upset that I posted
Speaker 10: a dance video that had the N word in it,
Speaker 10: but I didn't sing it. He had reached out to
Speaker 10: like Dave Neil and a couple other outlets.
Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty three, there was a viral TikTok
Speaker 1: trend where people would dance to a catchy song and
Speaker 1: add these animated penguins making it look like they were
Speaker 1: doing a choreographed dance with them.
Speaker 10: I post on TikTok I was dancing with these like penguins.
Speaker 1: Clayton didn't sing the lyrics. The song just played in
Speaker 1: the background while he danced.
Speaker 10: I didn't say it, and I danced to a lot
Speaker 10: of rap songs.
Speaker 1: So yeah, to Dave, the video Chase Jay Jones was
Speaker 1: pointing out seemed like a nothing burger.
Speaker 2: So I decided not to report on it. I said,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to report on this press release that's
Speaker 2: clearly trying to slam Clayton for something that's kind of
Speaker 2: a little bit of a push.
Speaker 1: Chase it all. So posted a blog about this on Medium.
Speaker 1: A few days later, Dave got another email from Chase
Speaker 1: explaining why he should be covering this story. Dave decided
Speaker 1: to google Chase's name.
Speaker 2: So we look into Chase J.
Speaker 11: Jones.
Speaker 2: They've got like a bio on Medium and on YouTube,
Speaker 2: and they say they went to Howard, which is historical
Speaker 2: back college.
Speaker 1: Dave wanted to verify that Chase was who he said
Speaker 1: he was, so he replied to the email and asked
Speaker 1: Chase to jump on.
Speaker 11: A call.
Speaker 2: Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't
Speaker 2: report this story if I can't even confirm who this
Speaker 2: person is.
Speaker 1: Several days later, Dave got another email, but this time
Speaker 1: it was from Patreon, the private online community for his audience.
Speaker 2: Chase Jay Jones became a five dollars member, Thank you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: Dave started talking to his audience about the emails he'd
Speaker 1: received from Chase J. Jones, and they developed a theory.
Speaker 1: What if was actually Laura pretending to be a Howard
Speaker 1: University student.
Speaker 2: Everyone's fascinated about Chase J. Jones because if it's possible
Speaker 2: that Laura is faking a black man, this is insanity.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely insanity.
Speaker 1: At the time, Laura had already taken legal action against Dave,
Speaker 1: so he had an active court case and the ability
Speaker 1: to subpoena Chase J. Jones, and that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 12: Chase J.
Speaker 2: Jones tries to quash the subpoena, which means they went
Speaker 2: through the California legal system to try to quash a subpoena.
Speaker 2: And all my lawyer was saying is just get on
Speaker 2: the phone with us. Just confirm your identity and this
Speaker 2: all goes away. So we pursue Chase J. Jones as
Speaker 2: far as we legally could, knowing there was no one
Speaker 2: on the end of the phone call.
Speaker 1: Dave was having a hard time proving that this might
Speaker 1: be Laura.
Speaker 2: Until one night audience members who cracked the case.
Speaker 1: When Chase emailed Dave, he included the video of Clayton
Speaker 1: dancing with the penguins.
Speaker 2: Chase J. Jones ripped that from Clayton's TikTok and put
Speaker 2: it on YouTube, probably so Clayton went in't to lead it. Well, whoops.
Speaker 2: I know a little thing about YouTube. It's owned by Google,
Speaker 2: and when you have a password for a YouTube, there
Speaker 2: is that two factor authentication.
Speaker 1: That means if you were to try to enter the password,
Speaker 1: it would send you a password code if you type
Speaker 1: in the last four digits of the account holder's cell
Speaker 1: phone number. Dave Neil had Laura's number because she'd been
Speaker 1: contacting him for months.
Speaker 2: Well, believe it or not, if you type in Laura Owens'
Speaker 2: last four digits of her cell phone number and try
Speaker 2: to do two factor authentication, what pops up on Chase J.
Speaker 2: Jones YouTube channel is it says we've sent the code
Speaker 2: to this cell phone number. If you try any other number,
Speaker 2: We've tried hundreds. If you tried any other cell phone number,
Speaker 2: it says wrong code.
Speaker 1: On his own show, Dave created a video linking Laura
Speaker 1: to the phone number used to establish the Chase J.
Speaker 1: Jones YouTube account. Dave believes Laura fabricated this persona a
Speaker 1: black journalism student, to try to cancel Clayton eckered. Laura
Speaker 1: appeared consumed by a singular, relentless ambition the total dismantling
Speaker 1: of Clayton's reputation. She was also trying to convince the
Speaker 1: public that she was the victim in this case. According
Speaker 1: to Laura, people like Dave Neil were cyberbullying her. In
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three, Laura posted this video on her
Speaker 1: Facebook and just a forewarning, it's a rough listen.
Speaker 5: Dave has made more than fifty videos and or podcast
Speaker 5: content than I could possibly count talking about me. He
Speaker 5: specializes in Bachelor content, but what he's talking about has
Speaker 5: nothing to do with the Bachelor.
Speaker 1: She sounds like she's crying, but when you watch the video,
Speaker 1: you can see that there are no tears coming out
Speaker 1: of her eyes, Dave.
Speaker 5: I've begged him to stop talking about me. I'm friended
Speaker 5: with defamation and lawsuits. Nothing stops him, and he keeps
Speaker 5: seizing that he's going to talk about another event where
Speaker 5: it gets crazy er, as he says.
Speaker 1: Around this time, Laura made another police report.
Speaker 6: God, definitely, how can I help you?
Speaker 7: Can? I think report?
Speaker 11: A violation of a protective order?
Speaker 6: Is a person on premise right now? No?
Speaker 10: Okay?
Speaker 6: And then how was the order violated?
Speaker 11: So it was violated online?
Speaker 5: The person's not supposed to try to find my location
Speaker 5: and they reached out to some I've been dating and posted.
Speaker 4: A lot of false information about me online.
Speaker 1: You probably assume she's talking about Clayton or maybe even
Speaker 1: Dave Neil, but she's not.
Speaker 6: And who's the person that you have the violation against.
Speaker 4: His name is Greg Golusbie.
Speaker 1: Two years before Laura Owens met Clayton Eckerd, she was
Speaker 1: swiping through dating apps. That's where she met a thirty
Speaker 1: five year old Scottsdale man named Greg Gillespie.
Speaker 4: According to court documents, Greg and Laura met on a
Speaker 4: dating app and I think they were hanging out for
Speaker 4: a few days, not more than a week.
Speaker 1: That's attorney Greg Woodnick. We're calling him by his last name,
Speaker 1: Woodnick to avoid infusion. Woodnick's been practicing law in Arizona
Speaker 1: for twenty five years. His law firm represented Clayton. But
Speaker 1: if you recall when Clayton first approached him, Woodnick was
Speaker 1: hesitant to take on another case involving Laura Owens.
Speaker 4: I was remembering what had happened with Greg. I was
Speaker 4: remembering what I had learned at that point, and I
Speaker 4: didn't really want to get involved with her again.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a detour to tell you about
Speaker 1: Greg Gillespie. What you're about to hear will sound very
Speaker 1: similar to Clayton's story, but it happened two years prior.
Speaker 4: Greg was not a celebrity. Greg was just a regular
Speaker 4: commercial lighting sales guy.
Speaker 1: Greg himself isn't ready to share his story publicly. I
Speaker 1: spoke with him late last year and he told me
Speaker 1: he won't be willing to talk until Laura is behind bars.
Speaker 1: I understand and his concerns, and I think you will
Speaker 1: too after you hear his story.
Speaker 4: I remember thinking during Greg's case that this would eventually
Speaker 4: be a lifetime television movie because it was so bizarre.
Speaker 4: What we didn't know is kind of astounding. I mean,
Speaker 4: we knew half of one percent of the story back then.
Speaker 1: For now, we'll be telling Greg's story by relying on
Speaker 1: public records and his lawyer, Woodnick, who worked on the
Speaker 1: case for years. He said that after Greg met Laura
Speaker 1: on a dating app.
Speaker 4: They had hung out just a few times, and Greg
Speaker 4: knew really quickly that he was not interested in pursuing
Speaker 4: a relationship with Laura.
Speaker 1: The court document state the two had a first date,
Speaker 1: which Greg described as a fairly normal experience. The next
Speaker 1: day they went on a second date. Then Laura went
Speaker 1: back to Greg's place and they had sex.
Speaker 4: My understanding was that the sexual intercourse that they had
Speaker 4: was safer.
Speaker 1: By safer, he means that Laura told Greg she was
Speaker 1: on birth control. They also used a condom. This next
Speaker 1: bit is graphic but relevant. The court documents state that
Speaker 1: when they had sex, Greg pulled the condom off and
Speaker 1: ejaculated on Laura's back.
Speaker 4: I wasn't there, but I read the investigative report. Greg
Speaker 4: went to grab a towel, which he said only took
Speaker 4: a few seconds, apparently in the bathroom, and when he
Speaker 4: got back, Laura was clean and said she'd already taken
Speaker 4: care of it. Greg thought it was strange.
Speaker 1: He ended up hanging out with her one more time,
Speaker 1: but shortly after that he met up with her to
Speaker 1: tell her that he wasn't interested in continuing a relationship.
Speaker 1: The whole fling only lasted a couple of days.
Speaker 4: It was like a short term fling thing. It certainly
Speaker 4: wasn't a relationship.
Speaker 1: This is where the story begins to sound eerily similar
Speaker 1: to Clayton's experience. After Greg told Laura he wasn't interested
Speaker 1: in her, she started texting him excessively. He told her
Speaker 1: if she didn't stop, he would block her. Then, around
Speaker 1: two weeks after he'd called it off, Laura sent him
Speaker 1: a picture of a positive pregnancy test. Unlike Clayton, there
Speaker 1: was more of a real possibility she could be pregnant
Speaker 1: because in this case, there was actually penetrative sex. Would
Speaker 1: Nick told me that Greg had no interest in having
Speaker 1: a child with Laura.
Speaker 4: Laura said she would have an abortion if they could
Speaker 4: date long term and eventually have children together. The right
Speaker 4: way sound familiar.
Speaker 1: It's almost the exact same playbook she used with Clayton,
Speaker 1: but Greg's story has a few key differences and they're disturbing.
Speaker 1: Just a warning to listeners. Here we're going to recount
Speaker 1: Laura's story of taking abortion pills. According to court documents,
Speaker 1: Laura obtained abortion pills from a telehealth clinic on July
Speaker 1: twenty first. They sent her detailed instructions on how to
Speaker 1: take the pills. It's a two step process. You swallow
Speaker 1: the first pill, and then six to forty eight hours later,
Speaker 1: you take the second dose. That second dose is supposed
Speaker 1: to absorb vaginally or between your gums and cheek.
Speaker 4: My recollection is that Laura claimed she took the first
Speaker 4: dose on July twenty eighth and the second dose the
Speaker 4: next day, July twenty ninth, But then there was a
Speaker 4: text I remember to her telehealth provider it was always Telehealth,
Speaker 4: indicating that she didn't take the second dose correctly or.
Speaker 9: Something like that.
Speaker 1: In records with her telehealth doctor, Laura seemed confused about
Speaker 1: when and how to take the second dose. She says
Speaker 1: she waited a few days to take it, but finally did.
Speaker 1: Then Laura claimed she saw a doctor who said the
Speaker 1: develop men of the fetus may have stopped, but it
Speaker 1: was still uncertain. There aren't any public records of this
Speaker 1: doctor visit. That claim raised alarm bells for Woodnick.
Speaker 4: It seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time, and internally in
Speaker 4: my office, Remember this was just dealing with this particular situation.
Speaker 4: It seemed totally bullshit. But in hindsight, when you look
Speaker 4: back at these dates and the timelines that are kind
Speaker 4: of time stamped there, it's even more incredible. It's weird
Speaker 4: what we didn't know, and now looking back, how bizarre
Speaker 4: that dataset actually was.
Speaker 1: The text messages between Laura and Greg about this topic
Speaker 1: became heated and emotionally charged. Here are some of Laura's texts,
Speaker 1: read by a voice actor.
Speaker 7: I don't want a child on my own. It probably
Speaker 7: sounds crazy considering only four dates together, but I can
Speaker 7: see us having a kid in a few years. I
Speaker 7: felt something so special with you. I am the one
Speaker 7: taking the pills, not you, so I have made the
Speaker 7: final decision. Wow, I chose you, not the kid.
Speaker 1: I'm not changing my mind.
Speaker 7: I want to get this done and have a great
Speaker 7: and normal relationship and encourage each other to crush it
Speaker 7: at work, notot fight on the phone.
Speaker 1: Then, on August sixth, twenty twenty one, Laura sends Greg
Speaker 1: an ultrasound along with an absolute bombshell. We obtained a
Speaker 1: copy of this message from a court document.
Speaker 7: Looks like you're going to be a dad to one
Speaker 7: or two babies. Was sick enough to go to the
Speaker 7: clinic this afternoon and had to get an ultrasound to
Speaker 7: make sure I wasn't having an ectopic pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. She sent this message after she told Greg
Speaker 1: she took the abortion pills.
Speaker 7: I found out that I've been pregnant with twins. Looks
Speaker 7: like one of them passed or isn't doing well, probably
Speaker 7: because of the medicine I took. I had the option
Speaker 7: of a surgical abortion and elected not to.
Speaker 4: This is when we started to realize that things were
Speaker 4: really off the rails. Her claims baffled really basic concepts
Speaker 4: of science and biology.
Speaker 7: If I'm going through this on my own, I will
Speaker 7: let God decide if he wants both one or none
Speaker 7: to be born, and the kid or kids would deserve
Speaker 7: to know their father's side of the family. I'm giving
Speaker 7: you one more shot to admit you were overwhelmed and panicked.
Speaker 7: Otherwise you're not getting any input going forward. Your behavior
Speaker 7: is appalling, coercing me to get an abortion for your
Speaker 7: own personal agenda, and I will escalate this if I
Speaker 7: don't hear back from you.
Speaker 1: Again. What Greg experienced is strikingly similar to Clayton's story,
Speaker 1: down to the specific language in Laura's messages.
Speaker 4: She has a tendency to have conditions and expectations that
Speaker 4: aren't normal in regular communication. If you don't respond to
Speaker 4: me by tomorrow, I will assume the answer is yes.
Speaker 4: If you don't X, then I will assume why and
Speaker 4: proceed that way.
Speaker 1: Laura's text to Greg continued.
Speaker 7: I talked to a lawyer who told me I can
Speaker 7: have a court order to establish paternity at eight weeks
Speaker 7: and get child support from that point on, which is
Speaker 7: twenty five percent of your income, even if you're making
Speaker 7: less than me.
Speaker 4: Stephanie, I've been a lawyer for twenty five plus years.
Speaker 4: I'm a former adjunct law professor at taught family law
Speaker 4: trial skills. That's not the law in Arizona.
Speaker 7: You would not get custody given all you have written
Speaker 7: about aborting the pregnancy. If you also had manipulated me
Speaker 7: to take abortion pills that resulted in the deformity or
Speaker 7: death of the second fetus, I would also pursue any
Speaker 7: and all legal action for that. If you're going to
Speaker 7: stick with manipulation, lies, and ghosting, you are not who
Speaker 7: I thought you were and would deserve it.
Speaker 4: Laura said some unbelieve fevably bizarre things and had some
Speaker 4: very interesting legal theories. I have no idea what she's
Speaker 4: talking about.
Speaker 1: One of those claims was abortion coercion. This will come
Speaker 1: back again later.
Speaker 4: I had never even heard of abortion coercion until she
Speaker 4: put it in writing and sent it to Greg. But
Speaker 4: the claim that if Greg caused one of her pregnancies
Speaker 4: to be deformed, that it was somehow his fault is
Speaker 4: probably legally flawed. You should probably talk to a civil
Speaker 4: attorney about that. But also it's missing a condition predicent
Speaker 4: The condition predecedant being being pregnant.
Speaker 1: Like with Clayton, Laura's text to Greg oscillate between claims
Speaker 1: of abuse and bids to rekindle the relationship. Laura's text
Speaker 1: is read by a voice actor.
Speaker 7: I still want to believe that you are the guy
Speaker 7: who wanted a fresh start with me. I told you
Speaker 7: early on that you didn't need to be with me,
Speaker 7: and that I would make the decision on my own,
Speaker 7: with my own timeline, but you insisted that you wanted
Speaker 7: to be with me and do this the right way
Speaker 7: in the future, which I believed. This is your last
Speaker 7: chance to show me that you weren't coercing me to
Speaker 7: have an abortion under false pretenses.
Speaker 1: I can't speak for Greg, but I'd imagine anyone receiving
Speaker 1: that text message would be in total shock. Wo n'ick
Speaker 1: remembers being baffled by Laura's mixed messages.
Speaker 4: My recollection was iss. She relayed that she was pregnant,
Speaker 4: and then the story eventually morphed into it was twins,
Speaker 4: and then it eventually morphed into here's the ultrasound.
Speaker 1: Greg decided to do a quick reverse image search on
Speaker 1: the ultrasound and he got a hit. The image Laura
Speaker 1: sent him appeared to be from a twenty fifteen blog post,
Speaker 1: a blog completely unrelated to Laura Owens. Greg felt like
Speaker 1: this was proof that she was lying about the pregnancy,
Speaker 1: so we called Laura in Arizona. You can record toward
Speaker 1: one side of a conversation and share it if it's
Speaker 1: a matter of public interest. I want to play you
Speaker 1: some of that real phone call between Greg Gillespie and
Speaker 1: Laura Owens.
Speaker 4: So your pills didn't work. I didn't say my pills
Speaker 4: didn't work. I got an ultrasound today, I know, but
Speaker 4: they didn't work.
Speaker 9: Did you not see that?
Speaker 4: The other thing is like the tiniest thing you've ever seen.
Speaker 6: It literally stopped the.
Speaker 2: Growth in that.
Speaker 6: Way.
Speaker 4: What then, that's not a child? There's no twins in
Speaker 4: this picture? Yeah?
Speaker 11: There are?
Speaker 4: Do you do you want me to zoom in.
Speaker 10: On it for you?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I don't know. There's no twins in this photo.
Speaker 9: Yeah there is where.
Speaker 4: Oh I know how to read utrasounds. This is a
Speaker 4: single baby. Do you know how to read ultrasounds?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Greg confronted her with the blog post he'd found. To him,
Speaker 1: it seemed obvious that Laura had taken a screenshot of
Speaker 1: this image and photoshopped it. He got heated.
Speaker 2: Why didn't you answer the question about the photo online?
Speaker 7: I did?
Speaker 1: What does you want me to say?
Speaker 6: Was it your photo?
Speaker 1: It's not my photo?
Speaker 10: Wait?
Speaker 4: Didn't you find it peculiar?
Speaker 6: How similar it looks?
Speaker 12: No?
Speaker 7: I don't find anything peculiar with an ultrasounds photo.
Speaker 4: They all look the same, they do.
Speaker 5: Oh, ultrasounds look virtually the same.
Speaker 4: I don't find anything.
Speaker 11: Weird with that.
Speaker 1: It's not true that all ultrasounds look the same. Greg
Speaker 1: sent the two images to his attorney Woodnick, who asked
Speaker 1: an obgyn to review.
Speaker 4: Them, and he goes, they're the same image. And that's
Speaker 4: all I needed. At that point, I felt pretty confident
Speaker 4: that the images that Greg received were fake.
Speaker 1: Greg blocked Laura across every platform, phone, email, and social media,
Speaker 1: but according to court filings, Laura wouldn't stop. She allegedly
Speaker 1: used apps to generate new numbers to reach him. On
Speaker 1: August eleven, she took it a step further and filed
Speaker 1: a civil lawsuit against Greg. She was seeking forty five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in damages. This is the point in the
Speaker 1: story where Greg retained Woodnik.
Speaker 4: Her big allegation was that he coerced her to having
Speaker 4: an abortion, and that was the nexus of the civil
Speaker 4: lawsuit she filed.
Speaker 1: I asked him to give me a legal definition of
Speaker 1: abortion coercion.
Speaker 4: I think it means someone forcing a woman to make
Speaker 4: a choice with their body that is not their choice.
Speaker 4: So I think it means that she was claiming that
Speaker 4: Greg made her terminate the pregnancy. I've been a practicing
Speaker 4: lawyer at that point for well over twenty years. I'd
Speaker 4: never even heard of this.
Speaker 1: Woodnick manages a family and criminal law practice in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: I asked around, and he's sort of a go to
Speaker 1: for cases involving complex child custody, child abuse, and neglect.
Speaker 1: While paternity cases are common, cases like Laura's are not.
Speaker 1: At first, Wouldn'tick wasn't sure if you wanted to take
Speaker 1: on Greg's case. He and his firm regularly provide pro
Speaker 1: bono work for planned parenthood.
Speaker 4: I'm very proud of the work that I've done and
Speaker 4: the commitment my office has to plant parenthood, and I
Speaker 4: truly believe all healthcare decisions regarding a woman and their
Speaker 4: pregnancy are theirs to me.
Speaker 1: But would N'tick took the time to read over Greg's documents. Immediately,
Speaker 1: Laura's messages stood out to him.
Speaker 4: I saw the communication related to it, and it was
Speaker 4: bafflingly bizarre. A lot of like transactional negotiated communications, this
Speaker 4: kind of thing where Laura would send text after text
Speaker 4: after text and Greg wouldn't respond. She would send emails
Speaker 4: like I'm having the baby if you don't call me,
Speaker 4: that's weird.
Speaker 1: The day after Laura filed the civil lawsuit against Greg,
Speaker 1: he filed for an order of protection against her. I
Speaker 1: got a copy of Greg's filing. It paints a clear
Speaker 1: and unsettling picture of what he was going through. Here's
Speaker 1: what he told the courts, read by a voice actor.
Speaker 8: She continued to harass me via text messages through fourteen
Speaker 8: different email accounts and I messages, all of which I've
Speaker 8: since blocked. She threatened to reach out to my family,
Speaker 8: located them on public records, reached out to my mother,
Speaker 8: threatened to expose me on her self help podcast. Laura
Speaker 8: Owens has shown up to my home two times after
Speaker 8: being asked not to come there. She now is reaching
Speaker 8: out making threats of lawsuits to my work email address.
Speaker 8: She's contacted the HR department in my company to confirm
Speaker 8: my email address and is threatening my career and reputation
Speaker 8: at my place of work. As of yesterday and today,
Speaker 8: she is showing no sign of stopping. The defendant is
Speaker 8: stating that she is in love with me after three dates,
Speaker 8: roughly two hours each date, and is promising to have
Speaker 8: an abortion and dismiss pressing charges if I commit to
Speaker 8: loving her, marrying her, and starting a family with her
Speaker 8: within the next two years. I'm scared for my reputation
Speaker 8: and safety, and it's time to serve her a legal
Speaker 8: order of protection.
Speaker 1: The judge granted Greg's order of protection ex partey, which
Speaker 1: means it gets issued right away without the other person
Speaker 1: being heard. But in Arizona, a protective order isn't effective
Speaker 1: until it's been served. Authorities tried to serve Laura and
Speaker 1: failed each time. All the while, Laura kept flooding Greg's
Speaker 1: inbox with lengthy emails, and she was escalating her claims
Speaker 1: against him. Some of the messages she sent to Greg
Speaker 1: were later in included an Americopa County investigative report. We've
Speaker 1: had them read by a voice actor.
Speaker 7: I have been advised to file criminal charges against you
Speaker 7: for fraud where I can easily establish my case. All
Speaker 7: I want is what you told me you wanted if
Speaker 7: I got an abortion, A real genuine relationship where, even
Speaker 7: though we have no idea if it works in the
Speaker 7: end or not, we really try.
Speaker 1: It's emotional whiplash. She was constantly bombarding Greg with texts
Speaker 1: and emails.
Speaker 7: I think I have found representation for the case and
Speaker 7: am waiting to make a decision until or if I
Speaker 7: hear back from you. My hesitancy in hiring him is
Speaker 7: that he would want to talk about this to the
Speaker 7: media because he thinks it would be a landmark case.
Speaker 7: You aren't the first guy to coerce a girl into
Speaker 7: an abortion, and he thinks there should be legal consequences
Speaker 7: for men who do that to prevent it from happening.
Speaker 7: I wanted to ask you one more time if you
Speaker 7: wanted to date. If that were the case, I would
Speaker 7: also keep my promise to you and not have the child.
Speaker 7: I obviously would drop the lawsuit. If I don't get
Speaker 7: an apology and you don't show that you meant what
Speaker 7: you said about wanting a relationship with me, I will
Speaker 7: not be having a surgical abortion and will be filing
Speaker 7: for punitive damages for seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Some of these lines sound exactly like the ones she
Speaker 1: would later write to Clayton, wouldn't It was disturbed by
Speaker 1: the similarities in the messages.
Speaker 4: I remember when the communication started coming in from Clayton
Speaker 4: and his dialogue with Laura, and I remember looking at
Speaker 4: the communications wondering if they were identical. I mean, it
Speaker 4: was very eerily similar.
Speaker 1: But there are some features of Greg's experience that don't
Speaker 1: quite line up with Clayton's. Like this one letter Laura
Speaker 1: sent Greg. She told him it was from a lawyer
Speaker 1: who'd reviewed her case.
Speaker 4: It was a letter on email letterhead from a very
Speaker 4: reputable lawyer in the San Francisco Bay area.
Speaker 1: Greg shared it with Woodnick. Here's his recollection of what
Speaker 1: the letter said.
Speaker 4: Laura, we've reviewed your case. This is the best abortion
Speaker 4: coercion case we've ever seen, and kind of implied that
Speaker 4: the case was worth a lot and she needed to
Speaker 4: sue and go after Greg. Obviously, that caused me to
Speaker 4: raise my eyebrows. I mean it caused me to do
Speaker 4: some research. So we did some digging into those communications,
Speaker 4: and when she was attaching letters from her lawyer, I
Speaker 4: was like, wait a minute, if she's represented by a lawyer,
Speaker 4: I need to be communicating with a lawyer. So I
Speaker 4: did what I would train any associate, or what I'm
Speaker 4: supposed to do ethically. I reached out to the lawyer themselves,
Speaker 4: and you'll be surprised to find out that they said
Speaker 4: they were not representing her.
Speaker 1: Woodnick wanted to be clear he does not believe the
Speaker 1: lawyer whose name is on this letter is the one
Speaker 1: who authored it.
Speaker 4: First, he said he didn't represent her. Second, they weren't
Speaker 4: licensed in Arizona. It was absolutely an Arizona case, and
Speaker 4: it didn't read like a lawyer wrote it. Certainly not
Speaker 4: a lawyer with the gravity that the lawyer that she
Speaker 4: claimed was representing her had. And again, we didn't get
Speaker 4: this communication from the law firm, so I'm not blaming
Speaker 4: them at all. I actually believe they didn't know. I
Speaker 4: think I alerted them to it.
Speaker 1: Because the protective order could never be successfully served, Laura
Speaker 1: was legally allowed to continue contacting Greg. He wasn't responding anymore,
Speaker 1: but that didn't deter her. She contacted important people in
Speaker 1: Greg's life, like his boss. Those messages were later included
Speaker 1: in that same investigative report we discussed earlier, which is
Speaker 1: how we got a copy of them. Here's an email
Speaker 1: she sent his employer, read by a voice actor.
Speaker 7: Hi, I filed a civil lawsuit against a salesman at
Speaker 7: your Scottsdale location, Greg Gillespie, and wondered if I could
Speaker 7: confidentially confirm the dates that he was out on COVID
Speaker 7: leave in July and August. The illness is unrelated to
Speaker 7: the case, but my father is going through radiation for
Speaker 7: cancer right now and is having COVID symptoms. I am
Speaker 7: helping to care for him and wondered if I may
Speaker 7: have been asymptomatic after being in close contact with him
Speaker 7: and then transmitted into my dad. I would really appreciate
Speaker 7: your not involving him, and if I could just have
Speaker 7: help in tracing back how he had been exposed. I
Speaker 7: think it had to be through me, although at this
Speaker 7: point I'm testing negative.
Speaker 1: Thanks Laura. Laura was about to take it a step further.
Speaker 1: On November twelfth, twenty twenty one, Laura filed an order
Speaker 1: of protection against Greg Gillespie, citing that he had been
Speaker 1: hacking her computer, social media, and even her podcast's website.
Speaker 4: Laura claims or implies that Greg is some sort of
Speaker 4: master it hacker. I don't know where the hell she's
Speaker 4: getting that from, Stephanie. There's nothing that I've ever seen
Speaker 4: in any document or record that remotely comports with that.
Speaker 1: In her filing, Laura claims Greg is a manipulative and
Speaker 1: dangerous person who has been incessantly harassing her. It reads quote,
Speaker 1: he will not stop until he has ruined my life,
Speaker 1: my podcast, and causes serious mental and or physical harm
Speaker 1: to me, the same day, a judge heard Laura's protective
Speaker 1: order case over zoom.
Speaker 11: I'm going to call Laura Owens and Greg Greg Gillespie
Speaker 11: FN twenty twenty one zero zero four seven ninety nine.
Speaker 11: Miss Owens, are you on the line?
Speaker 4: Yes, I am.
Speaker 11: Do you solemnly swear or affirmed to tell the truth,
Speaker 11: the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So I
Speaker 11: hope you God, I do your owner.
Speaker 1: The judge seemed to remember, Laura.
Speaker 11: You've been in front of me before in this case,
Speaker 11: these allegations. I remember them. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 11: You're the one who's friends with the attorney in California.
Speaker 11: Yeah yeah, okay, well.
Speaker 1: All right, if the judge is sounds familiar to you,
Speaker 1: it's the same judge you heard in the last episode
Speaker 1: granting Laura's order of protection against Clayton, the one about
Speaker 1: the selfie of Laura that had become a Halloween costume meme.
Speaker 1: But her hearing against Greg two years prior was much
Speaker 1: more serious.
Speaker 11: You say, mister Gillespie put his hands on your throat?
Speaker 11: When did that happen? That actually happened on our first date,
Speaker 11: all right, and you've only known him since like June
Speaker 11: or something right, correct.
Speaker 12: Okay, we had a conversation the other day, and I
Speaker 12: want to start out by saying that everything that we
Speaker 12: say on our hearing today is something that will be
Speaker 12: recorded in mister Gillespie and his attorneys can get copies
Speaker 12: of it.
Speaker 11: You're aware of that, right, yes, okay, I will grant
Speaker 11: your order of protection.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, your honor.
Speaker 1: Greg was served without order of detection three days later.
Speaker 1: Laura has since renewed the order twice, as recently as
Speaker 1: December of twenty twenty four. Greg has yet to contest it,
Speaker 1: but he still has the opportunity to contest it in
Speaker 1: the future and end up back in court with Laura Owens.
Speaker 1: By December of twenty twenty one, Laura's civil case against
Speaker 1: Greg was still in the court system, and Woodnick was
Speaker 1: repeatedly asking about the status of Laura's pregnancy.
Speaker 4: We kind of lost track of the lie of the pregnancy.
Speaker 4: The story wasn't about a pregnancy, It was about this
Speaker 4: coercion thing. As soon as she filed this lawsuit claiming
Speaker 4: abortion coersion, it was almost like the lore of what
Speaker 4: she was even pregnant kind of was gone. Now we
Speaker 4: were dealing with whatever she was claiming Greg had done
Speaker 4: to her because now she was a victim, obviously a
Speaker 4: victim of the guy who wanted nothing to do with her,
Speaker 4: A guy who was like, leave me alone. A guy
Speaker 4: was like quick calling my employer. A guy was like,
Speaker 4: I don't ever want to see you again.
Speaker 1: After that, Greg stopped hearing from Laura about the pregnancy.
Speaker 1: He never saw verified medical records confirming a miscarriage. There
Speaker 1: are also no birth records, no death certificates, nothing. But
Speaker 1: that isn't the end of the story. There was one
Speaker 1: more very serious allegation that Laura levied against Greg Gillespie.
Speaker 1: This time it wasn't just against him, it was against
Speaker 1: him and his attorney, Greg Woodnick.
Speaker 4: I was going to answer every fucking question the police
Speaker 4: or the FBI had because I had nothing to do
Speaker 4: with this.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, Woodnick was preparing to defend his client,
Speaker 1: Greg Gillespie in a strange case. It was an abortion
Speaker 1: coercion claim brought by Laura Owens. For Woodnick, the case
Speaker 1: was already outside of his normal scope of practice. Then
Speaker 1: something happened that had never occurred before in Woodnick's twenty
Speaker 1: five year legal career.
Speaker 4: Maybe two or three days before the hearing, I get
Speaker 4: an email from Judge Bacchus's judicial assistant, and the email
Speaker 4: is not addressed to me. It is addressed to Laura,
Speaker 4: and I'm on the CC being copied back, and the
Speaker 4: email accused Greg and I of somehow being complicit in
Speaker 4: Laura's rape.
Speaker 1: When Woodnick first told me about this, I was shaken.
Speaker 1: After months of reporting on Laura Owens, I thought I
Speaker 1: had a sense of her pattern of behavior, but this
Speaker 1: accusation was as serious as it gets. Woodnick is adamant
Speaker 1: that he never conspired with his client to have Laura raped.
Speaker 4: To see my name associated with it really was troubling.
Speaker 4: Troubling's probably an understatement. As much as I knew that
Speaker 4: it was complete fucking bullshit. I mean, I'm not a rapist.
Speaker 4: Not only was it not true, I had no idea
Speaker 4: what the hell she was talking about, but it was
Speaker 4: a little bit frightening because she said it with a
Speaker 4: pretty good command of vocabulary that the FBI and the
Speaker 4: police will involved.
Speaker 1: Would Nick found out about Laura's allegation because of an
Speaker 1: email she sent to the judge in the case. That
Speaker 1: email is now part of the public record, and we've
Speaker 1: had it read by a voice actor.
Speaker 7: I hate to email you again, but there is a
Speaker 7: major issue with a defendant, mister Gregory Gillespie and his attorney,
Speaker 7: mister greg Woodnick that needs to be brought to Judge
Speaker 7: Bacchus's attention privately before she rules on the motion to
Speaker 7: extend filed by my now former attorney. On March fourth,
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two, I was drugged, violently assaulted, and raped.
Speaker 7: I have strong read to believe that both the defendant
Speaker 7: and his counsel were involved, and there is a pending
Speaker 7: FBI investigation regarding the incident. To my knowledge, neither the
Speaker 7: defendant nor his counsel are aware that they are being
Speaker 7: looked into. I was worried that submitting amotion Xpartei could
Speaker 7: accidentally be publicly e filed and accessed by them, which
Speaker 7: would pose a threat to my safety. I apologize for
Speaker 7: sending an email, but I could not think of any
Speaker 7: other way to alert Judge Bacchus about this without giving
Speaker 7: the other side confidential information about what has transpired.
Speaker 1: While Laura is adamant in her email to the judge,
Speaker 1: it seems like she never reported this alleged rape to
Speaker 1: the police. For wood Nick. The accusation was still devastating,
Speaker 1: it made him even more sure Greg was telling the truth.
Speaker 4: Listen, I mean, I don't know that in my career
Speaker 4: that I'm going to meet someone who's got such an
Speaker 4: interesting relationship with the truth. With this Laura Owen snus
Speaker 4: that may never happen again.
Speaker 1: After Woodnick read Laura's accusation, he immediately went into action,
Speaker 1: assembling a group of his most trusted colleagues.
Speaker 4: I got my team together in fortune. I've got seven
Speaker 4: lawyers in my team and some really experience of wonderful
Speaker 4: lawyers who are family to be and work with me.
Speaker 1: One of the people with him was his colleague Deandra Arena.
Speaker 1: Here's what Deandra thought of Laura's accusation.
Speaker 6: She has a tendency to throw these random, very concerning
Speaker 6: red herrings out there to detract or deflect from what
Speaker 6: maybe is going on at the time, So I think
Speaker 6: it could have been a tactical move. I think she
Speaker 6: certainly did not want Greg Woodnick on this case anymore.
Speaker 6: I think she certainly did not want to deal with
Speaker 6: my office anymore, and what better way to do it
Speaker 6: than make probably the most horrific allegation you can about
Speaker 6: an individual.
Speaker 1: Deandra saw how the accusation cut deep professionally and personally.
Speaker 4: It was awful.
Speaker 6: I mean, this is the most egregious of allegations, like
Speaker 6: I would much rather have my father, brother, any male
Speaker 6: loved one be accused of murder.
Speaker 1: She helped Woodnick figure out what to do next.
Speaker 6: I think he just went into a more logical mindset
Speaker 6: of this is someone who has fabricated a lot, so
Speaker 6: I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, and then
Speaker 6: how do we deal with it?
Speaker 1: Woodnick has a wife and two teenage kids who were
Speaker 1: in high school at the time, So after talking with
Speaker 1: his firm, he called a family meeting.
Speaker 4: And we don't do a serious family meetings. We are
Speaker 4: not a serious family. So I brought the boys in.
Speaker 4: I sat them down. I said, hey, guys, you need
Speaker 4: to understand that in a case, I was accused of
Speaker 4: being involved in a woman's rape. I want you guys
Speaker 4: to know that it's not true. I know you know
Speaker 4: it's not true. I want you to hear from me
Speaker 4: that it's not true. But if you come home and
Speaker 4: the police are here, that I've got it under control.
Speaker 4: If the police show up, we had a game plan,
Speaker 4: kissed me off. We spent the next two days contacting
Speaker 4: the local police and the FBI.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it wanted to get ahead of it. He had
Speaker 1: nothing to hide.
Speaker 4: I contacted the FBI, Stephanie. I contacted multiple police departments.
Speaker 4: Not a soul knew what Laura was even talking about.
Speaker 4: No one even said, oh, yes, there's an open investigation.
Speaker 4: I mean nothing. They had no idea what I was
Speaker 4: talking about. I don't even think there was ever a
Speaker 4: police report involving it, because no one has ever contacted
Speaker 4: me this many years later. It was all, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: a lie. So yeah, this one pisses me off pretty good.
Speaker 4: This one pisses me off pretty good.
Speaker 1: I've spent hundreds of hours researching this case, and honestly,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot to shock me at this point.
Speaker 1: But sitting in Woodnock's office listening to him tell me
Speaker 1: this story, I actually started to tear up. I believe
Speaker 1: Woudnick when he says he wasn't involved in any criminal
Speaker 1: conspiracy to have Laura raped. Even after all these years,
Speaker 1: Laura's allegation is still an emotional topic. It's deeply personal
Speaker 1: for him. Woodnock's colleagues urged him to leave Greg's case
Speaker 1: and find a replacement. Here's Deandra, you.
Speaker 6: Have to take a step back and consider is this
Speaker 6: worth it anymore? I mean, I went to law school
Speaker 6: for three years. I've put my blood, sweat and tears
Speaker 6: into this career, and to have someone just so cavalierly
Speaker 6: throw that out there in an email, like, maybe we
Speaker 6: need to remove ourselves from this situation because this is
Speaker 6: very dangerous person.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, wouldn'ick stepped away from the case.
Speaker 4: Greg and I had a financially part ways at some
Speaker 4: point it just did the nature of the beast, but
Speaker 4: he and I have stayed close. He's a great guy.
Speaker 4: We ended up handing it off to a dear colleague
Speaker 4: of mind, a guy I really like, a great lawyer
Speaker 4: who helped resolve it for Greg.
Speaker 1: It took years for the abortion coercion case to finally
Speaker 1: get dismissed, and in the end, nothing came of Laura's
Speaker 1: rape allegation against Greg and Woodnick, no charges and no
Speaker 1: further documentation in the public record. I asked Woodnick if
Speaker 1: he considers himself another victim of Laura Owens.
Speaker 4: I think people have suggested that I'm a victim in
Speaker 4: this too. It was never about me being a victim.
Speaker 4: The victims are these guys. I'm just a lawyer, a
Speaker 4: lawyer was doing his job, and I think we did
Speaker 4: a pretty okay job.
Speaker 1: Two years later, Woodnick would read about a former Bachelor
Speaker 1: contestant involved in a bizarre paternity case. Wouldnick immediately recognized
Speaker 1: the pattern. This was Laura Owens, and when Clayton supporters
Speaker 1: raised the funds for him to retain counsel, Wouldnick would
Speaker 1: hesitate for just a moment.
Speaker 4: Was I not happy with what Laura said about me? Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Was that in my head. I'm sure it was somewhere
Speaker 4: in my head, but it certainly wasn't my dominant thought process.
Speaker 1: To Woodnick, Clayton's case represented something bigger. This was a pattern,
Speaker 1: and maybe Clayton could be the one to finally bring
Speaker 1: this to an end.
Speaker 4: The fact that so many people's lives have been attempted
Speaker 4: to be destroyed by Laura was a big deal in Clayton,
Speaker 4: this guy who was already in the spotlight because of
Speaker 4: his role on the Bachelor, he was kind of the
Speaker 4: torch bearer to make sure that justice was served.
Speaker 1: That's how Woodnick and Deandra found themselves back in the
Speaker 1: courtroom with Laura Owens.
Speaker 4: I was going to make sure I did everything I
Speaker 4: could do that my team did everything we could do
Speaker 4: to make sure we got justice for Clayton.
Speaker 1: Coming up on the next episode of Love Trapped.
Speaker 4: I'm going to remind you again that you're not really
Speaker 4: supposed to be dishonest depositions.
Speaker 2: I'm well aware.
Speaker 10: I thought maybe she had actually successfully trapped you by
Speaker 10: senmenting herself.
Speaker 1: I did not send the soulcial sound video.
Speaker 2: This is the greatest programming in the history of YouTube.
Speaker 2: This is why you do it live.
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it ever.
Speaker 10: I need to hold this woman accountable.
Speaker 3: This isn't about her, It's about the people that she's victimized.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at
Speaker 1: Love Trapped pod at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped
Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com. Love Trapped is a production
Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by
Speaker 1: Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Fetterman, Written, produced and
Speaker 1: hosted by Me Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Le.
Speaker 1: Board producer on this episode is Sidney Gladou. Additional production
Speaker 1: support from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri.
Speaker 1: For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio
Speaker 1: editing and mastering by Anna McLain, Additional editing support by
Speaker 1: Zach Proto and Matt Delvecio. Thank you to our voice
Speaker 1: actors in this episode, Leslie Tolly, Kristen Melchirie, Todd Gans,
Speaker 1: and Trey Morgan. This podcast was developed in collaboration with
Speaker 1: Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love
Speaker 1: Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided
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