WEBVTT - Sound Familiar? | EP 5 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.440 After Laura was barred from speaking with Clayton, she became 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.479 hyperactive online. She began repeatedly reaching out to online content 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:16.600 creators like Dave Neil to refute their claims. Around this time, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.520 Dave got an interesting email from a Howard University student. 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.760 It is basically a press release that is titled Unpacking 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.720 Racial Insensitivity by somebody named Chase Jay Jones. This whole 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.479 unpacking of racial insensitivity is Clayton dancing on TikTok to 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.479 a song where the song had the ndword. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.640 It seemed like Clayton couldn't catch a break. Dave tried 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.000 to reach out to Chase J. Jones to talk on 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:44.400 the phone. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.760 Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.720 report this story if I can't even confirm who this 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:51.400 person is. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.880 But Chase kept following up asking Dave to cover the story. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.840 The fact that Chase wouldn't get on the phone raised 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.080 a larm bells for Dave. He and his audience began 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:08.280 to suspect that maybe Chase J. Jones didn't exist at all. 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.360 Chase J. Jones became the most interesting like lockness monster, 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.640 a Bigfoot if you will, a mystery. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.480 Dave started to wonder if the Howard University student emailing 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:27.319 him was actually who he said he was. I'm Stephanie 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.840 Young and this is love trapped. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:31.320 There's no way. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.080 You'd better believe. 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:43.080 I'll be razy the hells. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.600 If you ever, ever, ever, ever. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:48.600 Trati. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.600 On November two, twenty twenty three, a judge granted Clayton 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.600 Eckered an injunction against harassment. You heard those proceedings on 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.880 the last episode. That meant Laura was legally prohibited from 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.679 speaking to Clayton. For Clayton, the legal barrier worked. The 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:18.040 messages finally stopped, but the silence was an illusion. Laura 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:19.400 had found a new focus. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.800 Laura then started harassing journalists who were telling this story. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.440 She contacted me within the first video or two where 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:29.760 I started to doubt her story. 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.680 I'm sending you this email because I'm required to give 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.519 you thirty days to retract your false statements before I 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:36.560 sue for defamation. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.040 She reports my video and it gets taken down. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.480 By filing to establish paternity in the courts and by 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.679 going to the tabloids, Laura had opened the door to 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.960 public commentary. After her restraining order hearing was live streamed. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.760 Everyone online knew her name, she couldn't hide clips from 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.200 the hearings were going viral. Dave Neil started getting more 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.919 frequent emails from Laura. She was not happy. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.519 It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.560 your neck immediately go up when you see you get 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:11.720 an email from Laura Owens. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.200 Dave had been covering Laura and Clayton's story nearly every 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.359 day since it first broke His audience were the ones 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.880 who first discovered her name and inconsistencies, and the evidence 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.120 she provided. Dave became a lightning rod, a target of 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:26.840 Laura's rage. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.959 I was threatened nearly immediately by Laura that she was 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:33.280 going to sue the hell out of me if I 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:33.720 cover this. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.440 Laura might have seen Dave as the instigator of the 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.000 doubt and criticism she was experiencing, but the truth was 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.680 the story had taken on a life of its own. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.680 It basically took over the Bachelor read it so much 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.000 so that a new sub was established are Slash Laura Owens. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.680 This one was dedicated to Laura Owens and things we 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.720 found out about her and about her past. 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.880 This is a woman who goes by the online user name. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:09.320 Schnitzel Ninja thought it sounded funny and never really anticipated 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.400 it was going to be as popular as it is. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.400 She's not a content creator. She's a mom with a 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.400 job that has nothing to do with being online, and 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.680 she's a casual fan of The Bachelor. Back in twenty 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.839 twenty three, she had a habit of scrolling through Bachelor News. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.240 It was very much like a lurker online until that 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.840 our Laura Owen sub was created. That's when I really 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.400 started interacting. We're all doing all of this research on her, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.760 but like there's always another thing to uncover, there's always 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:42.960 another thing we found. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:48.000 She got sucked into the story and I can relate today. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.160 Schnitzel Ninja is a central figure in the online community. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.400 We're not going to use her real name because of Laura. 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.600 She's intimidating and doesn't shy away from threats. 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.280 Schnitzel Ninja stumbled into the story by accident in September 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.000 twenty twenty three. She was browsing the Bachelor reddit when 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.200 she came across Laura's post, the one where Laura said 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.520 she was the anonymous woman in the Clayton Echered paternity scandal. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.800 She believed Laura, because who would lie about something like that. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.880 I remember commenting on the post something like, I'm really 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.440 sorry this is happening to you. I really hope Clayton 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.600 steps up and gives you the support you're looking for. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.960 I was just taking it at face value, and it 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:37.359 sounded like it could be legit. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.160 She later deleted that comment. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.760 It quickly became clear to me at least that Laura 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.200 was like maybe lying about some things, and so I 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.080 decided to start doing some research. 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.640 At the time, Laura herself was active on Reddit, posting 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.000 comments like this one, which will be read by a 0:05:58.080 --> 0:05:58.640 voice actor. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.600 Don't have any desire for Clayton to co parent anymore. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.120 I want full custody. I have very clearly stated I 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.200 do not want a relationship with Clayton. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.400 The replies were brutal, some were downright cruel, and if 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.040 you crossed the line. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.240 You just did this for attention and to distract from 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.919 the paternity result, showing no baby. You need to stop 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.960 abusing the legal system and get help first. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.240 You try to baby trap him. Now it's his fault 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.080 he got too stone to consent. If he was too 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:36.440 stone to consent, why did you give him a blowjob. 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.160 Laura was clapping back in the comments. Here are some 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:45.040 of her replies, You're wrong, thanks for the sarcasm. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.320 Though he gave me a gummy when I got to 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.360 his house, which he would admit so not sure how 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.120 that would make me baby trapping him. We consensually did 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.000 stuff when we were both under the influence. 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.440 Eventually, someone reported the subreddit and it was banded. Users 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.680 like schnitzel Ninja were still active on YouTube, but Laura 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.160 began reporting YouTube videos and sending threats of legal action 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:09.520 to the people who posted them. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.560 Laura was reporting people's videos, reporting this, reporting that, trying 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.120 to have this removed from the internet. 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.160 The thing is Laura's case was in the public record. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.559 She couldn't stop people from commenting about it and sharing 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.480 their opinion, but she had an incentive to try. Here's 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:27.040 Dave Neil. 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.040 If she could keep people from being able to share 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.160 these documents, she could keep her lie up. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.080 At this point, citizens Fluse like schnitzel Ninja were personally 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.600 invested in exposing the truth. From her perspective, Laura was 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:45.600 repeatedly misusing public funds like the police and court system. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.960 It's a public court hearing and I was just like, 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.800 don't do it if you don't want it on the internet. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.400 So she requested a physical copy of Clayton's Injunction against 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:58.160 Harassment hearing. 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.480 I found out you could quest these videos. I enlisted 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.800 my husband and kind of had to tell him I 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.040 was following this crazy case online. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.000 The DVD arrived in the mail. A few weeks later, 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.640 Schnitzel Ninja posted the video on YouTube. Someone reported the video, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:20.480 making a privacy complaint. According to YouTube policy, only two 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.200 people would have been able to file that complaint, Laura 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.680 or Clayton, and Clayton says it wasn't him, but Schnitzel 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.480 Ninja was able to repost the video since the hearing 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.120 was a matter of public record. So that's how it 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.520 got started. For Schnitzel Ninja and dozens of others, Following 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.040 the story became like a full time job. Laura was 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.160 extremely upset about what people online were saying about her. 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.120 She saw Dave Neil as kind of a ringleader. At 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.760 this point, he'd received dozens of personal emails from Laura, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.320 including a cease and assist and an attempt to get 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.040 a restraining order. Dave had never experienced anything like this. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.720 Before I was stuck, I was, for better or for worse, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.000 bonded to this lady in a way that I became 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.920 the bad guy to her. And by the way, I'm 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.360 not trying to convince anybody. Go out there, get on Google, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.440 come back to me. I'll see you in a couple 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:14.840 of days. 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.600 Dave's full time job was covering bachelor and pop culture news. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.640 Once Laura began singling him out. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.679 I was like, you came into my business, like I 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.480 do this for a living. Buckle up. We will make 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.199 as many videos as it takes to get this thing right. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.240 Justice doesn't always play out unless the public demands it. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.600 Laura sent a threatening email to a group of podcasters saying, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.800 if you decide to cover the story with just Dave's 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.240 point of view, my intent is to sue for defamation. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.000 Laura also said in this email that she would be 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.480 extremely appreciative if you would not cover this topic at all, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.480 and that if you do, you allow me to give 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.040 my side of the story. Here's the thing. Numerous podcasters 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.840 and creators have told me they gave her the opportunity 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.600 to come on their shows, and she declined every single time. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.840 At the time, I'm recording this. She has not agreed 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.400 to an interview with me either. Here's Dave's perspective on 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.920 why she refused to talk on the record with people 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:20.920 who were questioning her. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.720 She wanted a story out of it, but she didn't 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.920 want to deal with the ramifications of being cross examined. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.280 Because Laura was reporting so many videos on YouTube, Dave 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.200 Neil moved the bulk of his conversation about Laura to Patreon. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.480 It's a private community and subscription based platform for creators, 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.280 and it felt like a safer place to talk about 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.400 Laura because she was so litigious. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.400 People wanted to be in there, in like a sort 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.400 of safe space in a private community to discuss this. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.000 That's when Dave started getting those emails we mentioned at 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.200 the start of this episode, the ones from Chase J. Jones. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:58.760 Clayton got wind of it. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:05.439 A black university student that was upset that I posted 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.439 a dance video that had the N word in it, 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.400 but I didn't sing it. He had reached out to 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.640 like Dave Neil and a couple other outlets. 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.720 Back in twenty twenty three, there was a viral TikTok 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.599 trend where people would dance to a catchy song and 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.880 add these animated penguins making it look like they were 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:24.559 doing a choreographed dance with them. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.320 I post on TikTok I was dancing with these like penguins. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.400 Clayton didn't sing the lyrics. The song just played in 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.000 the background while he danced. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.480 I didn't say it, and I danced to a lot 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:38.120 of rap songs. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:43.280 So yeah, to Dave, the video Chase Jay Jones was 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.000 pointing out seemed like a nothing burger. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.320 So I decided not to report on it. I said, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.880 I'm not going to report on this press release that's 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.240 clearly trying to slam Clayton for something that's kind of 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.040 a little bit of a push. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.880 Chase it all. So posted a blog about this on Medium. 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.880 A few days later, Dave got another email from Chase 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.120 explaining why he should be covering this story. Dave decided 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:11.440 to google Chase's name. 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:13.319 So we look into Chase J. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:13.800 Jones. 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.320 They've got like a bio on Medium and on YouTube, 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.880 and they say they went to Howard, which is historical 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:19.440 back college. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.360 Dave wanted to verify that Chase was who he said 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.280 he was, so he replied to the email and asked 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:27.160 Chase to jump on. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:27.640 A call. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.600 Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.520 report this story if I can't even confirm who this 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:38.160 person is. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.560 Several days later, Dave got another email, but this time 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.360 it was from Patreon, the private online community for his audience. 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.079 Chase Jay Jones became a five dollars member, Thank you 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:51.560 so much. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.280 Dave started talking to his audience about the emails he'd 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.520 received from Chase J. Jones, and they developed a theory. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.880 What if was actually Laura pretending to be a Howard 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:04.840 University student. 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.880 Everyone's fascinated about Chase J. Jones because if it's possible 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:15.320 that Laura is faking a black man, this is insanity. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:17.720 I mean, it's absolutely insanity. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.080 At the time, Laura had already taken legal action against Dave, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.240 so he had an active court case and the ability 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.000 to subpoena Chase J. Jones, and that's exactly what he did. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:31.719 Chase J. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.959 Jones tries to quash the subpoena, which means they went 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:39.240 through the California legal system to try to quash a subpoena. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.760 And all my lawyer was saying is just get on 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.800 the phone with us. Just confirm your identity and this 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.000 all goes away. So we pursue Chase J. Jones as 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.200 far as we legally could, knowing there was no one 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.400 on the end of the phone call. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.440 Dave was having a hard time proving that this might 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:57.160 be Laura. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.440 Until one night audience members who cracked the case. 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.400 When Chase emailed Dave, he included the video of Clayton 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:07.520 dancing with the penguins. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.240 Chase J. Jones ripped that from Clayton's TikTok and put 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.160 it on YouTube, probably so Clayton went in't to lead it. Well, whoops. 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.760 I know a little thing about YouTube. It's owned by Google, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.760 and when you have a password for a YouTube, there 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.120 is that two factor authentication. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.480 That means if you were to try to enter the password, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.880 it would send you a password code if you type 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.440 in the last four digits of the account holder's cell 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.640 phone number. Dave Neil had Laura's number because she'd been 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.160 contacting him for months. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.720 Well, believe it or not, if you type in Laura Owens' 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.200 last four digits of her cell phone number and try 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:49.160 to do two factor authentication, what pops up on Chase J. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.800 Jones YouTube channel is it says we've sent the code 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.040 to this cell phone number. If you try any other number, 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.640 We've tried hundreds. If you tried any other cell phone number, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.040 it says wrong code. 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.720 On his own show, Dave created a video linking Laura 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.400 to the phone number used to establish the Chase J. 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.000 Jones YouTube account. Dave believes Laura fabricated this persona a 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:20.680 black journalism student, to try to cancel Clayton eckered. Laura 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:25.840 appeared consumed by a singular, relentless ambition the total dismantling 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.640 of Clayton's reputation. She was also trying to convince the 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.160 public that she was the victim in this case. According 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.720 to Laura, people like Dave Neil were cyberbullying her. In 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.400 December twenty twenty three, Laura posted this video on her 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.360 Facebook and just a forewarning, it's a rough listen. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:52.000 Dave has made more than fifty videos and or podcast 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:57.560 content than I could possibly count talking about me. He 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.640 specializes in Bachelor content, but what he's talking about has 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:03.080 nothing to do with the Bachelor. 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.200 She sounds like she's crying, but when you watch the video, 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.440 you can see that there are no tears coming out 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.440 of her eyes, Dave. 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:18.120 I've begged him to stop talking about me. I'm friended 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:24.320 with defamation and lawsuits. Nothing stops him, and he keeps 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.040 seizing that he's going to talk about another event where 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:30.760 it gets crazy er, as he says. 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.080 Around this time, Laura made another police report. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:38.280 God, definitely, how can I help you? 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:40.400 Can? I think report? 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.000 A violation of a protective order? 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.720 Is a person on premise right now? No? 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:47.440 Okay? 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.800 And then how was the order violated? 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.760 So it was violated online? 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.280 The person's not supposed to try to find my location 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.600 and they reached out to some I've been dating and posted. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.160 A lot of false information about me online. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.080 You probably assume she's talking about Clayton or maybe even 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.159 Dave Neil, but she's not. 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.760 And who's the person that you have the violation against. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:19.840 His name is Greg Golusbie. 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.080 Two years before Laura Owens met Clayton Eckerd, she was 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.560 swiping through dating apps. That's where she met a thirty 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.280 five year old Scottsdale man named Greg Gillespie. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.960 According to court documents, Greg and Laura met on a 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.200 dating app and I think they were hanging out for 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:54.800 a few days, not more than a week. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.800 That's attorney Greg Woodnick. We're calling him by his last name, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:03.440 Woodnick to avoid infusion. Woodnick's been practicing law in Arizona 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.320 for twenty five years. His law firm represented Clayton. But 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.960 if you recall when Clayton first approached him, Woodnick was 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.080 hesitant to take on another case involving Laura Owens. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.159 I was remembering what had happened with Greg. I was 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.040 remembering what I had learned at that point, and I 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.640 didn't really want to get involved with her again. 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.760 We're going to take a detour to tell you about 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.760 Greg Gillespie. What you're about to hear will sound very 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.160 similar to Clayton's story, but it happened two years prior. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.919 Greg was not a celebrity. Greg was just a regular 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:47.760 commercial lighting sales guy. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.240 Greg himself isn't ready to share his story publicly. I 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.879 spoke with him late last year and he told me 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.200 he won't be willing to talk until Laura is behind bars. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.480 I understand and his concerns, and I think you will 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.480 too after you hear his story. 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.920 I remember thinking during Greg's case that this would eventually 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.800 be a lifetime television movie because it was so bizarre. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.600 What we didn't know is kind of astounding. I mean, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.760 we knew half of one percent of the story back then. 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.159 For now, we'll be telling Greg's story by relying on 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.560 public records and his lawyer, Woodnick, who worked on the 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.160 case for years. He said that after Greg met Laura 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:32.320 on a dating app. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.560 They had hung out just a few times, and Greg 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.479 knew really quickly that he was not interested in pursuing 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:40.560 a relationship with Laura. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.680 The court document state the two had a first date, 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.800 which Greg described as a fairly normal experience. The next 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.520 day they went on a second date. Then Laura went 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.720 back to Greg's place and they had sex. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:59.080 My understanding was that the sexual intercourse that they had 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:00.679 was safer. 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.720 By safer, he means that Laura told Greg she was 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.160 on birth control. They also used a condom. This next 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.800 bit is graphic but relevant. The court documents state that 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.920 when they had sex, Greg pulled the condom off and 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:18.480 ejaculated on Laura's back. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.560 I wasn't there, but I read the investigative report. Greg 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.280 went to grab a towel, which he said only took 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.840 a few seconds, apparently in the bathroom, and when he 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.480 got back, Laura was clean and said she'd already taken 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.440 care of it. Greg thought it was strange. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.560 He ended up hanging out with her one more time, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.040 but shortly after that he met up with her to 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.080 tell her that he wasn't interested in continuing a relationship. 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.359 The whole fling only lasted a couple of days. 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.040 It was like a short term fling thing. It certainly 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:53.040 wasn't a relationship. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.560 This is where the story begins to sound eerily similar 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.960 to Clayton's experience. After Greg told Laura he wasn't interested 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.399 in her, she started texting him excessively. He told her 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.080 if she didn't stop, he would block her. Then, around 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.159 two weeks after he'd called it off, Laura sent him 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.919 a picture of a positive pregnancy test. Unlike Clayton, there 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.560 was more of a real possibility she could be pregnant 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:26.000 because in this case, there was actually penetrative sex. Would 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.400 Nick told me that Greg had no interest in having 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:29.359 a child with Laura. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:35.640 Laura said she would have an abortion if they could 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:40.800 date long term and eventually have children together. The right 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.640 way sound familiar. 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.600 It's almost the exact same playbook she used with Clayton, 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.359 but Greg's story has a few key differences and they're disturbing. 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.000 Just a warning to listeners. Here we're going to recount 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:02.920 Laura's story of taking abortion pills. According to court documents, 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.280 Laura obtained abortion pills from a telehealth clinic on July 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:10.080 twenty first. They sent her detailed instructions on how to 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.680 take the pills. It's a two step process. You swallow 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.800 the first pill, and then six to forty eight hours later, 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.400 you take the second dose. That second dose is supposed 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.480 to absorb vaginally or between your gums and cheek. 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.359 My recollection is that Laura claimed she took the first 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.320 dose on July twenty eighth and the second dose the 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.159 next day, July twenty ninth, But then there was a 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.119 text I remember to her telehealth provider it was always Telehealth, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.359 indicating that she didn't take the second dose correctly or. 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:44.920 Something like that. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.280 In records with her telehealth doctor, Laura seemed confused about 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.840 when and how to take the second dose. She says 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.360 she waited a few days to take it, but finally did. 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.560 Then Laura claimed she saw a doctor who said the 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.119 develop men of the fetus may have stopped, but it 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.840 was still uncertain. There aren't any public records of this 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.520 doctor visit. That claim raised alarm bells for Woodnick. 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:16.800 It seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time, and internally in 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.720 my office, Remember this was just dealing with this particular situation. 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.920 It seemed totally bullshit. But in hindsight, when you look 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:25.840 back at these dates and the timelines that are kind 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.240