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Speaker 1: After Laura was barred from speaking with Clayton, she became

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Speaker 1: hyperactive online. She began repeatedly reaching out to online content

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Speaker 1: creators like Dave Neil to refute their claims. Around this time,

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Speaker 1: Dave got an interesting email from a Howard University student.

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Speaker 2: It is basically a press release that is titled Unpacking

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Speaker 2: Racial Insensitivity by somebody named Chase Jay Jones. This whole

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Speaker 2: unpacking of racial insensitivity is Clayton dancing on TikTok to

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Speaker 2: a song where the song had the ndword.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like Clayton couldn't catch a break. Dave tried

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Speaker 1: to reach out to Chase J. Jones to talk on

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Speaker 1: the phone.

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Speaker 2: Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't

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Speaker 2: report this story if I can't even confirm who this

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Speaker 2: person is.

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Speaker 1: But Chase kept following up asking Dave to cover the story.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Chase wouldn't get on the phone raised

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Speaker 1: a larm bells for Dave. He and his audience began

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Speaker 1: to suspect that maybe Chase J. Jones didn't exist at all.

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Speaker 2: Chase J. Jones became the most interesting like lockness monster,

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Speaker 2: a Bigfoot if you will, a mystery.

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Speaker 1: Dave started to wonder if the Howard University student emailing

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Speaker 1: him was actually who he said he was. I'm Stephanie

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Speaker 1: Young and this is love trapped.

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Speaker 3: There's no way.

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Speaker 4: You'd better believe.

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Speaker 1: I'll be razy the hells.

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Speaker 5: If you ever, ever, ever, ever.

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Speaker 6: Trati.

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Speaker 1: On November two, twenty twenty three, a judge granted Clayton

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Speaker 1: Eckered an injunction against harassment. You heard those proceedings on

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Speaker 1: the last episode. That meant Laura was legally prohibited from

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Speaker 1: speaking to Clayton. For Clayton, the legal barrier worked. The

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Speaker 1: messages finally stopped, but the silence was an illusion. Laura

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Speaker 1: had found a new focus.

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Speaker 7: Laura then started harassing journalists who were telling this story.

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Speaker 2: She contacted me within the first video or two where

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Speaker 2: I started to doubt her story.

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Speaker 8: I'm sending you this email because I'm required to give

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Speaker 8: you thirty days to retract your false statements before I

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Speaker 8: sue for defamation.

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Speaker 3: She reports my video and it gets taken down.

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Speaker 1: By filing to establish paternity in the courts and by

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Speaker 1: going to the tabloids, Laura had opened the door to

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Speaker 1: public commentary. After her restraining order hearing was live streamed.

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Speaker 1: Everyone online knew her name, she couldn't hide clips from

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Speaker 1: the hearings were going viral. Dave Neil started getting more

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Speaker 1: frequent emails from Laura. She was not happy.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to explain to somebody how the hairs on

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Speaker 2: your neck immediately go up when you see you get

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Speaker 2: an email from Laura Owens.

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Speaker 1: Dave had been covering Laura and Clayton's story nearly every

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Speaker 1: day since it first broke His audience were the ones

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Speaker 1: who first discovered her name and inconsistencies, and the evidence

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Speaker 1: she provided. Dave became a lightning rod, a target of

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Speaker 1: Laura's rage.

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Speaker 2: I was threatened nearly immediately by Laura that she was

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Speaker 2: going to sue the hell out of me if I

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Speaker 2: cover this.

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Speaker 1: Laura might have seen Dave as the instigator of the

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Speaker 1: doubt and criticism she was experiencing, but the truth was

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Speaker 1: the story had taken on a life of its own.

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Speaker 1: It basically took over the Bachelor read it so much

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Speaker 1: so that a new sub was established are Slash Laura Owens.

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Speaker 3: This one was dedicated to Laura Owens and things we

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Speaker 3: found out about her and about her past.

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Speaker 1: This is a woman who goes by the online user name.

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Speaker 3: Schnitzel Ninja thought it sounded funny and never really anticipated

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Speaker 3: it was going to be as popular as it is.

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Speaker 1: She's not a content creator. She's a mom with a

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Speaker 1: job that has nothing to do with being online, and

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Speaker 1: she's a casual fan of The Bachelor. Back in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, she had a habit of scrolling through Bachelor News.

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Speaker 3: It was very much like a lurker online until that

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Speaker 3: our Laura Owen sub was created. That's when I really

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Speaker 3: started interacting. We're all doing all of this research on her,

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Speaker 3: but like there's always another thing to uncover, there's always

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Speaker 3: another thing we found.

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Speaker 1: She got sucked into the story and I can relate today.

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Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja is a central figure in the online community.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to use her real name because of Laura.

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Speaker 3: She's intimidating and doesn't shy away from threats.

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Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja stumbled into the story by accident in September

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. She was browsing the Bachelor reddit when

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Speaker 1: she came across Laura's post, the one where Laura said

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Speaker 1: she was the anonymous woman in the Clayton Echered paternity scandal.

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Speaker 1: She believed Laura, because who would lie about something like that.

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Speaker 3: I remember commenting on the post something like, I'm really

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Speaker 3: sorry this is happening to you. I really hope Clayton

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Speaker 3: steps up and gives you the support you're looking for.

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Speaker 3: I was just taking it at face value, and it

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Speaker 3: sounded like it could be legit.

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Speaker 1: She later deleted that comment.

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Speaker 3: It quickly became clear to me at least that Laura

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Speaker 3: was like maybe lying about some things, and so I

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Speaker 3: decided to start doing some research.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Laura herself was active on Reddit, posting

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Speaker 1: comments like this one, which will be read by a

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Speaker 1: voice actor.

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Speaker 7: Don't have any desire for Clayton to co parent anymore.

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Speaker 7: I want full custody. I have very clearly stated I

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Speaker 7: do not want a relationship with Clayton.

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Speaker 1: The replies were brutal, some were downright cruel, and if

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Speaker 1: you crossed the line.

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Speaker 9: You just did this for attention and to distract from

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Speaker 9: the paternity result, showing no baby. You need to stop

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Speaker 9: abusing the legal system and get help first.

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Speaker 4: You try to baby trap him. Now it's his fault

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Speaker 4: he got too stone to consent. If he was too

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Speaker 4: stone to consent, why did you give him a blowjob.

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Speaker 1: Laura was clapping back in the comments. Here are some

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Speaker 1: of her replies, You're wrong, thanks for the sarcasm.

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Speaker 7: Though he gave me a gummy when I got to

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Speaker 7: his house, which he would admit so not sure how

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Speaker 7: that would make me baby trapping him. We consensually did

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Speaker 7: stuff when we were both under the influence.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, someone reported the subreddit and it was banded. Users

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Speaker 1: like schnitzel Ninja were still active on YouTube, but Laura

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Speaker 1: began reporting YouTube videos and sending threats of legal action

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Speaker 1: to the people who posted them.

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Speaker 3: Laura was reporting people's videos, reporting this, reporting that, trying

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Speaker 3: to have this removed from the internet.

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Speaker 1: The thing is Laura's case was in the public record.

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Speaker 1: She couldn't stop people from commenting about it and sharing

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Speaker 1: their opinion, but she had an incentive to try. Here's

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Speaker 1: Dave Neil.

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Speaker 2: If she could keep people from being able to share

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Speaker 2: these documents, she could keep her lie up.

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Speaker 1: At this point, citizens Fluse like schnitzel Ninja were personally

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Speaker 1: invested in exposing the truth. From her perspective, Laura was

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Speaker 1: repeatedly misusing public funds like the police and court system.

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Speaker 3: It's a public court hearing and I was just like,

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Speaker 3: don't do it if you don't want it on the internet.

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Speaker 1: So she requested a physical copy of Clayton's Injunction against

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Speaker 1: Harassment hearing.

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Speaker 3: I found out you could quest these videos. I enlisted

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Speaker 3: my husband and kind of had to tell him I

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Speaker 3: was following this crazy case online.

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Speaker 1: The DVD arrived in the mail. A few weeks later,

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Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja posted the video on YouTube. Someone reported the video,

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Speaker 1: making a privacy complaint. According to YouTube policy, only two

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Speaker 1: people would have been able to file that complaint, Laura

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Speaker 1: or Clayton, and Clayton says it wasn't him, but Schnitzel

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Speaker 1: Ninja was able to repost the video since the hearing

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Speaker 1: was a matter of public record. So that's how it

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Speaker 1: got started. For Schnitzel Ninja and dozens of others, Following

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Speaker 1: the story became like a full time job. Laura was

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Speaker 1: extremely upset about what people online were saying about her.

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Speaker 1: She saw Dave Neil as kind of a ringleader. At

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Speaker 1: this point, he'd received dozens of personal emails from Laura,

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Speaker 1: including a cease and assist and an attempt to get

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Speaker 1: a restraining order. Dave had never experienced anything like this.

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Speaker 2: Before I was stuck, I was, for better or for worse,

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Speaker 2: bonded to this lady in a way that I became

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Speaker 2: the bad guy to her. And by the way, I'm

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Speaker 2: not trying to convince anybody. Go out there, get on Google,

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Speaker 2: come back to me. I'll see you in a couple

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Speaker 2: of days.

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Speaker 1: Dave's full time job was covering bachelor and pop culture news.

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Speaker 1: Once Laura began singling him out.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you came into my business, like I

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Speaker 2: do this for a living. Buckle up. We will make

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Speaker 2: as many videos as it takes to get this thing right.

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Speaker 2: Justice doesn't always play out unless the public demands it.

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Speaker 1: Laura sent a threatening email to a group of podcasters saying,

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Speaker 1: if you decide to cover the story with just Dave's

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Speaker 1: point of view, my intent is to sue for defamation.

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Speaker 1: Laura also said in this email that she would be

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Speaker 1: extremely appreciative if you would not cover this topic at all,

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Speaker 1: and that if you do, you allow me to give

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Speaker 1: my side of the story. Here's the thing. Numerous podcasters

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Speaker 1: and creators have told me they gave her the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to come on their shows, and she declined every single time.

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Speaker 1: At the time, I'm recording this. She has not agreed

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Speaker 1: to an interview with me either. Here's Dave's perspective on

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Speaker 1: why she refused to talk on the record with people

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Speaker 1: who were questioning her.

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Speaker 2: She wanted a story out of it, but she didn't

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Speaker 2: want to deal with the ramifications of being cross examined.

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Speaker 1: Because Laura was reporting so many videos on YouTube, Dave

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Speaker 1: Neil moved the bulk of his conversation about Laura to Patreon.

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Speaker 1: It's a private community and subscription based platform for creators,

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Speaker 1: and it felt like a safer place to talk about

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Speaker 1: Laura because she was so litigious.

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Speaker 2: People wanted to be in there, in like a sort

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Speaker 2: of safe space in a private community to discuss this.

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Speaker 1: That's when Dave started getting those emails we mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the start of this episode, the ones from Chase J. Jones.

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Speaker 1: Clayton got wind of it.

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Speaker 10: A black university student that was upset that I posted

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Speaker 10: a dance video that had the N word in it,

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Speaker 10: but I didn't sing it. He had reached out to

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Speaker 10: like Dave Neil and a couple other outlets.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty three, there was a viral TikTok

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Speaker 1: trend where people would dance to a catchy song and

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Speaker 1: add these animated penguins making it look like they were

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Speaker 1: doing a choreographed dance with them.

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Speaker 10: I post on TikTok I was dancing with these like penguins.

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Speaker 1: Clayton didn't sing the lyrics. The song just played in

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Speaker 1: the background while he danced.

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Speaker 10: I didn't say it, and I danced to a lot

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Speaker 10: of rap songs.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, to Dave, the video Chase Jay Jones was

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Speaker 1: pointing out seemed like a nothing burger.

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Speaker 2: So I decided not to report on it. I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to report on this press release that's

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Speaker 2: clearly trying to slam Clayton for something that's kind of

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a push.

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Speaker 1: Chase it all. So posted a blog about this on Medium.

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Speaker 1: A few days later, Dave got another email from Chase

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Speaker 1: explaining why he should be covering this story. Dave decided

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Speaker 1: to google Chase's name.

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Speaker 2: So we look into Chase J.

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Speaker 11: Jones.

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Speaker 2: They've got like a bio on Medium and on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: and they say they went to Howard, which is historical

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Speaker 2: back college.

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Speaker 1: Dave wanted to verify that Chase was who he said

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Speaker 1: he was, so he replied to the email and asked

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Speaker 1: Chase to jump on.

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Speaker 11: A call.

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Speaker 2: Crickets, I hear nothing. I'm going you know, I can't

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Speaker 2: report this story if I can't even confirm who this

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Speaker 2: person is.

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Speaker 1: Several days later, Dave got another email, but this time

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Speaker 1: it was from Patreon, the private online community for his audience.

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Speaker 2: Chase Jay Jones became a five dollars member, Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 1: Dave started talking to his audience about the emails he'd

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Speaker 1: received from Chase J. Jones, and they developed a theory.

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Speaker 1: What if was actually Laura pretending to be a Howard

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Speaker 1: University student.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's fascinated about Chase J. Jones because if it's possible

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Speaker 2: that Laura is faking a black man, this is insanity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely insanity.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Laura had already taken legal action against Dave,

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Speaker 1: so he had an active court case and the ability

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Speaker 1: to subpoena Chase J. Jones, and that's exactly what he did.

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Speaker 12: Chase J.

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Speaker 2: Jones tries to quash the subpoena, which means they went

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Speaker 2: through the California legal system to try to quash a subpoena.

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Speaker 2: And all my lawyer was saying is just get on

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Speaker 2: the phone with us. Just confirm your identity and this

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Speaker 2: all goes away. So we pursue Chase J. Jones as

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Speaker 2: far as we legally could, knowing there was no one

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Speaker 2: on the end of the phone call.

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Speaker 1: Dave was having a hard time proving that this might

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Speaker 1: be Laura.

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Speaker 2: Until one night audience members who cracked the case.

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Speaker 1: When Chase emailed Dave, he included the video of Clayton

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Speaker 1: dancing with the penguins.

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Speaker 2: Chase J. Jones ripped that from Clayton's TikTok and put

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Speaker 2: it on YouTube, probably so Clayton went in't to lead it. Well, whoops.

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Speaker 2: I know a little thing about YouTube. It's owned by Google,

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Speaker 2: and when you have a password for a YouTube, there

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Speaker 2: is that two factor authentication.

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Speaker 1: That means if you were to try to enter the password,

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Speaker 1: it would send you a password code if you type

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Speaker 1: in the last four digits of the account holder's cell

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Speaker 1: phone number. Dave Neil had Laura's number because she'd been

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Speaker 1: contacting him for months.

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Speaker 2: Well, believe it or not, if you type in Laura Owens'

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Speaker 2: last four digits of her cell phone number and try

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Speaker 2: to do two factor authentication, what pops up on Chase J.

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Speaker 2: Jones YouTube channel is it says we've sent the code

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Speaker 2: to this cell phone number. If you try any other number,

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Speaker 2: We've tried hundreds. If you tried any other cell phone number,

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Speaker 2: it says wrong code.

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Speaker 1: On his own show, Dave created a video linking Laura

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Speaker 1: to the phone number used to establish the Chase J.

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Speaker 1: Jones YouTube account. Dave believes Laura fabricated this persona a

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Speaker 1: black journalism student, to try to cancel Clayton eckered. Laura

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Speaker 1: appeared consumed by a singular, relentless ambition the total dismantling

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Speaker 1: of Clayton's reputation. She was also trying to convince the

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Speaker 1: public that she was the victim in this case. According

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Speaker 1: to Laura, people like Dave Neil were cyberbullying her. In

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Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three, Laura posted this video on her

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Speaker 1: Facebook and just a forewarning, it's a rough listen.

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Speaker 5: Dave has made more than fifty videos and or podcast

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Speaker 5: content than I could possibly count talking about me. He

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Speaker 5: specializes in Bachelor content, but what he's talking about has

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Speaker 5: nothing to do with the Bachelor.

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Speaker 1: She sounds like she's crying, but when you watch the video,

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Speaker 1: you can see that there are no tears coming out

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Speaker 1: of her eyes, Dave.

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Speaker 5: I've begged him to stop talking about me. I'm friended

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Speaker 5: with defamation and lawsuits. Nothing stops him, and he keeps

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Speaker 5: seizing that he's going to talk about another event where

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Speaker 5: it gets crazy er, as he says.

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Speaker 1: Around this time, Laura made another police report.

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Speaker 6: God, definitely, how can I help you?

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Speaker 7: Can? I think report?

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Speaker 11: A violation of a protective order?

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Speaker 6: Is a person on premise right now? No?

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Speaker 10: Okay?

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Speaker 6: And then how was the order violated?

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Speaker 11: So it was violated online?

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Speaker 5: The person's not supposed to try to find my location

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Speaker 5: and they reached out to some I've been dating and posted.

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Speaker 4: A lot of false information about me online.

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Speaker 1: You probably assume she's talking about Clayton or maybe even

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Speaker 1: Dave Neil, but she's not.

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Speaker 6: And who's the person that you have the violation against.

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Speaker 4: His name is Greg Golusbie.

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Speaker 1: Two years before Laura Owens met Clayton Eckerd, she was

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Speaker 1: swiping through dating apps. That's where she met a thirty

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Speaker 1: five year old Scottsdale man named Greg Gillespie.

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Speaker 4: According to court documents, Greg and Laura met on a

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Speaker 4: dating app and I think they were hanging out for

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Speaker 4: a few days, not more than a week.

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Speaker 1: That's attorney Greg Woodnick. We're calling him by his last name,

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Speaker 1: Woodnick to avoid infusion. Woodnick's been practicing law in Arizona

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Speaker 1: for twenty five years. His law firm represented Clayton. But

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Speaker 1: if you recall when Clayton first approached him, Woodnick was

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Speaker 1: hesitant to take on another case involving Laura Owens.

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Speaker 4: I was remembering what had happened with Greg. I was

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Speaker 4: remembering what I had learned at that point, and I

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Speaker 4: didn't really want to get involved with her again.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a detour to tell you about

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Speaker 1: Greg Gillespie. What you're about to hear will sound very

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Speaker 1: similar to Clayton's story, but it happened two years prior.

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Speaker 4: Greg was not a celebrity. Greg was just a regular

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Speaker 4: commercial lighting sales guy.

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Speaker 1: Greg himself isn't ready to share his story publicly. I

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Speaker 1: spoke with him late last year and he told me

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Speaker 1: he won't be willing to talk until Laura is behind bars.

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Speaker 1: I understand and his concerns, and I think you will

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Speaker 1: too after you hear his story.

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Speaker 4: I remember thinking during Greg's case that this would eventually

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Speaker 4: be a lifetime television movie because it was so bizarre.

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Speaker 4: What we didn't know is kind of astounding. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we knew half of one percent of the story back then.

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Speaker 1: For now, we'll be telling Greg's story by relying on

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Speaker 1: public records and his lawyer, Woodnick, who worked on the

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Speaker 1: case for years. He said that after Greg met Laura

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Speaker 1: on a dating app.

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Speaker 4: They had hung out just a few times, and Greg

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Speaker 4: knew really quickly that he was not interested in pursuing

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Speaker 4: a relationship with Laura.

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Speaker 1: The court document state the two had a first date,

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Speaker 1: which Greg described as a fairly normal experience. The next

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Speaker 1: day they went on a second date. Then Laura went

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Speaker 1: back to Greg's place and they had sex.

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Speaker 4: My understanding was that the sexual intercourse that they had

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Speaker 4: was safer.

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Speaker 1: By safer, he means that Laura told Greg she was

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Speaker 1: on birth control. They also used a condom. This next

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Speaker 1: bit is graphic but relevant. The court documents state that

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Speaker 1: when they had sex, Greg pulled the condom off and

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Speaker 1: ejaculated on Laura's back.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't there, but I read the investigative report. Greg

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Speaker 4: went to grab a towel, which he said only took

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Speaker 4: a few seconds, apparently in the bathroom, and when he

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Speaker 4: got back, Laura was clean and said she'd already taken

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Speaker 4: care of it. Greg thought it was strange.

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Speaker 1: He ended up hanging out with her one more time,

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Speaker 1: but shortly after that he met up with her to

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Speaker 1: tell her that he wasn't interested in continuing a relationship.

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Speaker 1: The whole fling only lasted a couple of days.

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Speaker 4: It was like a short term fling thing. It certainly

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Speaker 4: wasn't a relationship.

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Speaker 1: This is where the story begins to sound eerily similar

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Speaker 1: to Clayton's experience. After Greg told Laura he wasn't interested

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Speaker 1: in her, she started texting him excessively. He told her

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Speaker 1: if she didn't stop, he would block her. Then, around

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Speaker 1: two weeks after he'd called it off, Laura sent him

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Speaker 1: a picture of a positive pregnancy test. Unlike Clayton, there

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Speaker 1: was more of a real possibility she could be pregnant

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Speaker 1: because in this case, there was actually penetrative sex. Would

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Speaker 1: Nick told me that Greg had no interest in having

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Speaker 1: a child with Laura.

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Speaker 4: Laura said she would have an abortion if they could

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Speaker 4: date long term and eventually have children together. The right

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Speaker 4: way sound familiar.

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Speaker 1: It's almost the exact same playbook she used with Clayton,

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Speaker 1: but Greg's story has a few key differences and they're disturbing.

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Speaker 1: Just a warning to listeners. Here we're going to recount

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Speaker 1: Laura's story of taking abortion pills. According to court documents,

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Speaker 1: Laura obtained abortion pills from a telehealth clinic on July

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Speaker 1: twenty first. They sent her detailed instructions on how to

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Speaker 1: take the pills. It's a two step process. You swallow

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Speaker 1: the first pill, and then six to forty eight hours later,

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Speaker 1: you take the second dose. That second dose is supposed

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Speaker 1: to absorb vaginally or between your gums and cheek.

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Speaker 4: My recollection is that Laura claimed she took the first

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Speaker 4: dose on July twenty eighth and the second dose the

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Speaker 4: next day, July twenty ninth, But then there was a

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Speaker 4: text I remember to her telehealth provider it was always Telehealth,

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Speaker 4: indicating that she didn't take the second dose correctly or.

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Speaker 9: Something like that.

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Speaker 1: In records with her telehealth doctor, Laura seemed confused about

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Speaker 1: when and how to take the second dose. She says

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Speaker 1: she waited a few days to take it, but finally did.

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Speaker 1: Then Laura claimed she saw a doctor who said the

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Speaker 1: develop men of the fetus may have stopped, but it

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Speaker 1: was still uncertain. There aren't any public records of this

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Speaker 1: doctor visit. That claim raised alarm bells for Woodnick.

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Speaker 4: It seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time, and internally in

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Speaker 4: my office, Remember this was just dealing with this particular situation.

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Speaker 4: It seemed totally bullshit. But in hindsight, when you look

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Speaker 4: back at these dates and the timelines that are kind

401
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 4: of time stamped there, it's even more incredible. It's weird

402
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 4: what we didn't know, and now looking back, how bizarre

403
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: that dataset actually was.

404
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: The text messages between Laura and Greg about this topic

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Speaker 1: became heated and emotionally charged. Here are some of Laura's texts,

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Speaker 1: read by a voice actor.

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Speaker 7: I don't want a child on my own. It probably

408
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 7: sounds crazy considering only four dates together, but I can

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Speaker 7: see us having a kid in a few years. I

410
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Speaker 7: felt something so special with you. I am the one

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Speaker 7: taking the pills, not you, so I have made the

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Speaker 7: final decision. Wow, I chose you, not the kid.

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Speaker 1: I'm not changing my mind.

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00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 7: I want to get this done and have a great

415
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 7: and normal relationship and encourage each other to crush it

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Speaker 7: at work, notot fight on the phone.

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Speaker 1: Then, on August sixth, twenty twenty one, Laura sends Greg

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Speaker 1: an ultrasound along with an absolute bombshell. We obtained a

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Speaker 1: copy of this message from a court document.

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Speaker 7: Looks like you're going to be a dad to one

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Speaker 7: or two babies. Was sick enough to go to the

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Speaker 7: clinic this afternoon and had to get an ultrasound to

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Speaker 7: make sure I wasn't having an ectopic pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't. She sent this message after she told Greg

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Speaker 1: she took the abortion pills.

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Speaker 7: I found out that I've been pregnant with twins. Looks

427
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 7: like one of them passed or isn't doing well, probably

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Speaker 7: because of the medicine I took. I had the option

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Speaker 7: of a surgical abortion and elected not to.

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Speaker 4: This is when we started to realize that things were

431
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 4: really off the rails. Her claims baffled really basic concepts

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Speaker 4: of science and biology.

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Speaker 7: If I'm going through this on my own, I will

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Speaker 7: let God decide if he wants both one or none

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00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 7: to be born, and the kid or kids would deserve

436
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 7: to know their father's side of the family. I'm giving

437
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 7: you one more shot to admit you were overwhelmed and panicked.

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00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 7: Otherwise you're not getting any input going forward. Your behavior

439
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 7: is appalling, coercing me to get an abortion for your

440
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Speaker 7: own personal agenda, and I will escalate this if I

441
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Speaker 7: don't hear back from you.

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Speaker 1: Again. What Greg experienced is strikingly similar to Clayton's story,

443
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Speaker 1: down to the specific language in Laura's messages.

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Speaker 4: She has a tendency to have conditions and expectations that

445
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 4: aren't normal in regular communication. If you don't respond to

446
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: me by tomorrow, I will assume the answer is yes.

447
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 4: If you don't X, then I will assume why and

448
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 4: proceed that way.

449
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: Laura's text to Greg continued.

450
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 7: I talked to a lawyer who told me I can

451
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 7: have a court order to establish paternity at eight weeks

452
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 7: and get child support from that point on, which is

453
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 7: twenty five percent of your income, even if you're making

454
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 7: less than me.

455
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 4: Stephanie, I've been a lawyer for twenty five plus years.

456
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: I'm a former adjunct law professor at taught family law

457
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 4: trial skills. That's not the law in Arizona.

458
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 7: You would not get custody given all you have written

459
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 7: about aborting the pregnancy. If you also had manipulated me

460
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 7: to take abortion pills that resulted in the deformity or

461
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 7: death of the second fetus, I would also pursue any

462
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 7: and all legal action for that. If you're going to

463
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 7: stick with manipulation, lies, and ghosting, you are not who

464
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 7: I thought you were and would deserve it.

465
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 4: Laura said some unbelieve fevably bizarre things and had some

466
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 4: very interesting legal theories. I have no idea what she's

467
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 4: talking about.

468
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: One of those claims was abortion coercion. This will come

469
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: back again later.

470
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: I had never even heard of abortion coercion until she

471
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 4: put it in writing and sent it to Greg. But

472
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: the claim that if Greg caused one of her pregnancies

473
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 4: to be deformed, that it was somehow his fault is

474
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 4: probably legally flawed. You should probably talk to a civil

475
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: attorney about that. But also it's missing a condition predicent

476
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 4: The condition predecedant being being pregnant.

477
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: Like with Clayton, Laura's text to Greg oscillate between claims

478
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: of abuse and bids to rekindle the relationship. Laura's text

479
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: is read by a voice actor.

480
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 7: I still want to believe that you are the guy

481
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 7: who wanted a fresh start with me. I told you

482
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 7: early on that you didn't need to be with me,

483
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 7: and that I would make the decision on my own,

484
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 7: with my own timeline, but you insisted that you wanted

485
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 7: to be with me and do this the right way

486
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 7: in the future, which I believed. This is your last

487
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 7: chance to show me that you weren't coercing me to

488
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 7: have an abortion under false pretenses.

489
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: I can't speak for Greg, but I'd imagine anyone receiving

490
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: that text message would be in total shock. Wo n'ick

491
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: remembers being baffled by Laura's mixed messages.

492
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 4: My recollection was iss. She relayed that she was pregnant,

493
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 4: and then the story eventually morphed into it was twins,

494
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: and then it eventually morphed into here's the ultrasound.

495
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: Greg decided to do a quick reverse image search on

496
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: the ultrasound and he got a hit. The image Laura

497
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: sent him appeared to be from a twenty fifteen blog post,

498
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: a blog completely unrelated to Laura Owens. Greg felt like

499
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: this was proof that she was lying about the pregnancy,

500
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: so we called Laura in Arizona. You can record toward

501
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: one side of a conversation and share it if it's

502
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: a matter of public interest. I want to play you

503
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: some of that real phone call between Greg Gillespie and

504
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: Laura Owens.

505
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 4: So your pills didn't work. I didn't say my pills

506
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 4: didn't work. I got an ultrasound today, I know, but

507
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: they didn't work.

508
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 9: Did you not see that?

509
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: The other thing is like the tiniest thing you've ever seen.

510
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 6: It literally stopped the.

511
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: Growth in that.

512
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 6: Way.

513
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 4: What then, that's not a child? There's no twins in

514
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 4: this picture? Yeah?

515
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 11: There are?

516
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: Do you do you want me to zoom in.

517
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 10: On it for you?

518
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 5: Yeah?

519
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: I don't know. There's no twins in this photo.

520
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 9: Yeah there is where.

521
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 4: Oh I know how to read utrasounds. This is a

522
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 4: single baby. Do you know how to read ultrasounds?

523
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

524
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: Greg confronted her with the blog post he'd found. To him,

525
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: it seemed obvious that Laura had taken a screenshot of

526
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: this image and photoshopped it. He got heated.

527
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: Why didn't you answer the question about the photo online?

528
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 7: I did?

529
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: What does you want me to say?

530
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 6: Was it your photo?

531
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: It's not my photo?

532
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 10: Wait?

533
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 4: Didn't you find it peculiar?

534
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 6: How similar it looks?

535
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 12: No?

536
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 7: I don't find anything peculiar with an ultrasounds photo.

537
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: They all look the same, they do.

538
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 5: Oh, ultrasounds look virtually the same.

539
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: I don't find anything.

540
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 11: Weird with that.

541
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: It's not true that all ultrasounds look the same. Greg

542
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: sent the two images to his attorney Woodnick, who asked

543
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: an obgyn to review.

544
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 4: Them, and he goes, they're the same image. And that's

545
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 4: all I needed. At that point, I felt pretty confident

546
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 4: that the images that Greg received were fake.

547
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: Greg blocked Laura across every platform, phone, email, and social media,

548
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: but according to court filings, Laura wouldn't stop. She allegedly

549
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: used apps to generate new numbers to reach him. On

550
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: August eleven, she took it a step further and filed

551
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: a civil lawsuit against Greg. She was seeking forty five

552
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in damages. This is the point in the

553
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: story where Greg retained Woodnik.

554
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 4: Her big allegation was that he coerced her to having

555
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 4: an abortion, and that was the nexus of the civil

556
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: lawsuit she filed.

557
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: I asked him to give me a legal definition of

558
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: abortion coercion.

559
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 4: I think it means someone forcing a woman to make

560
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 4: a choice with their body that is not their choice.

561
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 4: So I think it means that she was claiming that

562
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: Greg made her terminate the pregnancy. I've been a practicing

563
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 4: lawyer at that point for well over twenty years. I'd

564
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 4: never even heard of this.

565
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: Woodnick manages a family and criminal law practice in Phoenix.

566
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: I asked around, and he's sort of a go to

567
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: for cases involving complex child custody, child abuse, and neglect.

568
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: While paternity cases are common, cases like Laura's are not.

569
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: At first, Wouldn'tick wasn't sure if you wanted to take

570
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: on Greg's case. He and his firm regularly provide pro

571
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: bono work for planned parenthood.

572
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 4: I'm very proud of the work that I've done and

573
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 4: the commitment my office has to plant parenthood, and I

574
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 4: truly believe all healthcare decisions regarding a woman and their

575
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: pregnancy are theirs to me.

576
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: But would N'tick took the time to read over Greg's documents. Immediately,

577
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: Laura's messages stood out to him.

578
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: I saw the communication related to it, and it was

579
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 4: bafflingly bizarre. A lot of like transactional negotiated communications, this

580
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 4: kind of thing where Laura would send text after text

581
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: after text and Greg wouldn't respond. She would send emails

582
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 4: like I'm having the baby if you don't call me,

583
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 4: that's weird.

584
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: The day after Laura filed the civil lawsuit against Greg,

585
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: he filed for an order of protection against her. I

586
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: got a copy of Greg's filing. It paints a clear

587
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: and unsettling picture of what he was going through. Here's

588
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: what he told the courts, read by a voice actor.

589
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 8: She continued to harass me via text messages through fourteen

590
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 8: different email accounts and I messages, all of which I've

591
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 8: since blocked. She threatened to reach out to my family,

592
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 8: located them on public records, reached out to my mother,

593
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 8: threatened to expose me on her self help podcast. Laura

594
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 8: Owens has shown up to my home two times after

595
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 8: being asked not to come there. She now is reaching

596
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 8: out making threats of lawsuits to my work email address.

597
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 8: She's contacted the HR department in my company to confirm

598
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 8: my email address and is threatening my career and reputation

599
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 8: at my place of work. As of yesterday and today,

600
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 8: she is showing no sign of stopping. The defendant is

601
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 8: stating that she is in love with me after three dates,

602
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 8: roughly two hours each date, and is promising to have

603
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 8: an abortion and dismiss pressing charges if I commit to

604
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 8: loving her, marrying her, and starting a family with her

605
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 8: within the next two years. I'm scared for my reputation

606
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 8: and safety, and it's time to serve her a legal

607
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 8: order of protection.

608
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: The judge granted Greg's order of protection ex partey, which

609
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: means it gets issued right away without the other person

610
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: being heard. But in Arizona, a protective order isn't effective

611
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: until it's been served. Authorities tried to serve Laura and

612
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: failed each time. All the while, Laura kept flooding Greg's

613
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: inbox with lengthy emails, and she was escalating her claims

614
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: against him. Some of the messages she sent to Greg

615
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: were later in included an Americopa County investigative report. We've

616
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: had them read by a voice actor.

617
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 7: I have been advised to file criminal charges against you

618
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 7: for fraud where I can easily establish my case. All

619
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 7: I want is what you told me you wanted if

620
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 7: I got an abortion, A real genuine relationship where, even

621
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 7: though we have no idea if it works in the

622
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 7: end or not, we really try.

623
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: It's emotional whiplash. She was constantly bombarding Greg with texts

624
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: and emails.

625
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 7: I think I have found representation for the case and

626
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 7: am waiting to make a decision until or if I

627
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 7: hear back from you. My hesitancy in hiring him is

628
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 7: that he would want to talk about this to the

629
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 7: media because he thinks it would be a landmark case.

630
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 7: You aren't the first guy to coerce a girl into

631
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 7: an abortion, and he thinks there should be legal consequences

632
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 7: for men who do that to prevent it from happening.

633
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 7: I wanted to ask you one more time if you

634
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 7: wanted to date. If that were the case, I would

635
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 7: also keep my promise to you and not have the child.

636
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 7: I obviously would drop the lawsuit. If I don't get

637
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 7: an apology and you don't show that you meant what

638
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 7: you said about wanting a relationship with me, I will

639
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 7: not be having a surgical abortion and will be filing

640
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 7: for punitive damages for seventy five thousand dollars.

641
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: Some of these lines sound exactly like the ones she

642
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: would later write to Clayton, wouldn't It was disturbed by

643
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: the similarities in the messages.

644
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 4: I remember when the communication started coming in from Clayton

645
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 4: and his dialogue with Laura, and I remember looking at

646
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: the communications wondering if they were identical. I mean, it

647
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 4: was very eerily similar.

648
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: But there are some features of Greg's experience that don't

649
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 1: quite line up with Clayton's. Like this one letter Laura

650
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: sent Greg. She told him it was from a lawyer

651
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: who'd reviewed her case.

652
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 4: It was a letter on email letterhead from a very

653
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: reputable lawyer in the San Francisco Bay area.

654
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: Greg shared it with Woodnick. Here's his recollection of what

655
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: the letter said.

656
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 4: Laura, we've reviewed your case. This is the best abortion

657
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 4: coercion case we've ever seen, and kind of implied that

658
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 4: the case was worth a lot and she needed to

659
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 4: sue and go after Greg. Obviously, that caused me to

660
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 4: raise my eyebrows. I mean it caused me to do

661
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 4: some research. So we did some digging into those communications,

662
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 4: and when she was attaching letters from her lawyer, I

663
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 4: was like, wait a minute, if she's represented by a lawyer,

664
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 4: I need to be communicating with a lawyer. So I

665
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 4: did what I would train any associate, or what I'm

666
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: supposed to do ethically. I reached out to the lawyer themselves,

667
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 4: and you'll be surprised to find out that they said

668
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 4: they were not representing her.

669
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: Woodnick wanted to be clear he does not believe the

670
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: lawyer whose name is on this letter is the one

671
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: who authored it.

672
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,479
Speaker 4: First, he said he didn't represent her. Second, they weren't

673
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 4: licensed in Arizona. It was absolutely an Arizona case, and

674
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 4: it didn't read like a lawyer wrote it. Certainly not

675
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 4: a lawyer with the gravity that the lawyer that she

676
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 4: claimed was representing her had. And again, we didn't get

677
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 4: this communication from the law firm, so I'm not blaming

678
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 4: them at all. I actually believe they didn't know. I

679
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: think I alerted them to it.

680
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: Because the protective order could never be successfully served, Laura

681
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: was legally allowed to continue contacting Greg. He wasn't responding anymore,

682
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: but that didn't deter her. She contacted important people in

683
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: Greg's life, like his boss. Those messages were later included

684
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: in that same investigative report we discussed earlier, which is

685
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: how we got a copy of them. Here's an email

686
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: she sent his employer, read by a voice actor.

687
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 7: Hi, I filed a civil lawsuit against a salesman at

688
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 7: your Scottsdale location, Greg Gillespie, and wondered if I could

689
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 7: confidentially confirm the dates that he was out on COVID

690
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 7: leave in July and August. The illness is unrelated to

691
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 7: the case, but my father is going through radiation for

692
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 7: cancer right now and is having COVID symptoms. I am

693
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 7: helping to care for him and wondered if I may

694
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 7: have been asymptomatic after being in close contact with him

695
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 7: and then transmitted into my dad. I would really appreciate

696
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 7: your not involving him, and if I could just have

697
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 7: help in tracing back how he had been exposed. I

698
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 7: think it had to be through me, although at this

699
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 7: point I'm testing negative.

700
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: Thanks Laura. Laura was about to take it a step further.

701
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: On November twelfth, twenty twenty one, Laura filed an order

702
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: of protection against Greg Gillespie, citing that he had been

703
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: hacking her computer, social media, and even her podcast's website.

704
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 4: Laura claims or implies that Greg is some sort of

705
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 4: master it hacker. I don't know where the hell she's

706
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 4: getting that from, Stephanie. There's nothing that I've ever seen

707
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 4: in any document or record that remotely comports with that.

708
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: In her filing, Laura claims Greg is a manipulative and

709
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: dangerous person who has been incessantly harassing her. It reads quote,

710
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: he will not stop until he has ruined my life,

711
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: my podcast, and causes serious mental and or physical harm

712
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: to me, the same day, a judge heard Laura's protective

713
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: order case over zoom.

714
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 11: I'm going to call Laura Owens and Greg Greg Gillespie

715
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 11: FN twenty twenty one zero zero four seven ninety nine.

716
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 11: Miss Owens, are you on the line?

717
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 4: Yes, I am.

718
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 11: Do you solemnly swear or affirmed to tell the truth,

719
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 11: the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So I

720
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 11: hope you God, I do your owner.

721
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: The judge seemed to remember, Laura.

722
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 11: You've been in front of me before in this case,

723
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 11: these allegations. I remember them. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 11: You're the one who's friends with the attorney in California.

725
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 11: Yeah yeah, okay, well.

726
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: All right, if the judge is sounds familiar to you,

727
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: it's the same judge you heard in the last episode

728
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: granting Laura's order of protection against Clayton, the one about

729
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: the selfie of Laura that had become a Halloween costume meme.

730
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: But her hearing against Greg two years prior was much

731
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: more serious.

732
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 11: You say, mister Gillespie put his hands on your throat?

733
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 11: When did that happen? That actually happened on our first date,

734
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 11: all right, and you've only known him since like June

735
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 11: or something right, correct.

736
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 12: Okay, we had a conversation the other day, and I

737
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 12: want to start out by saying that everything that we

738
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 12: say on our hearing today is something that will be

739
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 12: recorded in mister Gillespie and his attorneys can get copies

740
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 12: of it.

741
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 11: You're aware of that, right, yes, okay, I will grant

742
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 11: your order of protection.

743
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, your honor.

744
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: Greg was served without order of detection three days later.

745
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: Laura has since renewed the order twice, as recently as

746
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: December of twenty twenty four. Greg has yet to contest it,

747
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: but he still has the opportunity to contest it in

748
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: the future and end up back in court with Laura Owens.

749
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: By December of twenty twenty one, Laura's civil case against

750
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: Greg was still in the court system, and Woodnick was

751
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: repeatedly asking about the status of Laura's pregnancy.

752
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 4: We kind of lost track of the lie of the pregnancy.

753
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 4: The story wasn't about a pregnancy, It was about this

754
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 4: coercion thing. As soon as she filed this lawsuit claiming

755
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 4: abortion coersion, it was almost like the lore of what

756
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 4: she was even pregnant kind of was gone. Now we

757
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 4: were dealing with whatever she was claiming Greg had done

758
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 4: to her because now she was a victim, obviously a

759
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 4: victim of the guy who wanted nothing to do with her,

760
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: A guy who was like, leave me alone. A guy

761
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 4: was like quick calling my employer. A guy was like,

762
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 4: I don't ever want to see you again.

763
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: After that, Greg stopped hearing from Laura about the pregnancy.

764
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: He never saw verified medical records confirming a miscarriage. There

765
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: are also no birth records, no death certificates, nothing. But

766
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: that isn't the end of the story. There was one

767
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: more very serious allegation that Laura levied against Greg Gillespie.

768
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: This time it wasn't just against him, it was against

769
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: him and his attorney, Greg Woodnick.

770
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 4: I was going to answer every fucking question the police

771
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 4: or the FBI had because I had nothing to do

772
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: with this.

773
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, Woodnick was preparing to defend his client,

774
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: Greg Gillespie in a strange case. It was an abortion

775
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: coercion claim brought by Laura Owens. For Woodnick, the case

776
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: was already outside of his normal scope of practice. Then

777
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: something happened that had never occurred before in Woodnick's twenty

778
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: five year legal career.

779
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 4: Maybe two or three days before the hearing, I get

780
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 4: an email from Judge Bacchus's judicial assistant, and the email

781
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: is not addressed to me. It is addressed to Laura,

782
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 4: and I'm on the CC being copied back, and the

783
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: email accused Greg and I of somehow being complicit in

784
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: Laura's rape.

785
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: When Woodnick first told me about this, I was shaken.

786
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: After months of reporting on Laura Owens, I thought I

787
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: had a sense of her pattern of behavior, but this

788
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: accusation was as serious as it gets. Woodnick is adamant

789
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: that he never conspired with his client to have Laura raped.

790
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 4: To see my name associated with it really was troubling.

791
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 4: Troubling's probably an understatement. As much as I knew that

792
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 4: it was complete fucking bullshit. I mean, I'm not a rapist.

793
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 4: Not only was it not true, I had no idea

794
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 4: what the hell she was talking about, but it was

795
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 4: a little bit frightening because she said it with a

796
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 4: pretty good command of vocabulary that the FBI and the

797
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 4: police will involved.

798
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: Would Nick found out about Laura's allegation because of an

799
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: email she sent to the judge in the case. That

800
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: email is now part of the public record, and we've

801
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: had it read by a voice actor.

802
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 7: I hate to email you again, but there is a

803
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 7: major issue with a defendant, mister Gregory Gillespie and his attorney,

804
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 7: mister greg Woodnick that needs to be brought to Judge

805
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 7: Bacchus's attention privately before she rules on the motion to

806
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 7: extend filed by my now former attorney. On March fourth,

807
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two, I was drugged, violently assaulted, and raped.

808
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 7: I have strong read to believe that both the defendant

809
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 7: and his counsel were involved, and there is a pending

810
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 7: FBI investigation regarding the incident. To my knowledge, neither the

811
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 7: defendant nor his counsel are aware that they are being

812
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 7: looked into. I was worried that submitting amotion Xpartei could

813
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 7: accidentally be publicly e filed and accessed by them, which

814
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 7: would pose a threat to my safety. I apologize for

815
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 7: sending an email, but I could not think of any

816
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 7: other way to alert Judge Bacchus about this without giving

817
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 7: the other side confidential information about what has transpired.

818
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: While Laura is adamant in her email to the judge,

819
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: it seems like she never reported this alleged rape to

820
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: the police. For wood Nick. The accusation was still devastating,

821
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: it made him even more sure Greg was telling the truth.

822
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: Listen, I mean, I don't know that in my career

823
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 4: that I'm going to meet someone who's got such an

824
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 4: interesting relationship with the truth. With this Laura Owen snus

825
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 4: that may never happen again.

826
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: After Woodnick read Laura's accusation, he immediately went into action,

827
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: assembling a group of his most trusted colleagues.

828
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: I got my team together in fortune. I've got seven

829
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 4: lawyers in my team and some really experience of wonderful

830
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 4: lawyers who are family to be and work with me.

831
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: One of the people with him was his colleague Deandra Arena.

832
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: Here's what Deandra thought of Laura's accusation.

833
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 6: She has a tendency to throw these random, very concerning

834
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 6: red herrings out there to detract or deflect from what

835
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 6: maybe is going on at the time, So I think

836
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 6: it could have been a tactical move. I think she

837
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 6: certainly did not want Greg Woodnick on this case anymore.

838
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 6: I think she certainly did not want to deal with

839
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 6: my office anymore, and what better way to do it

840
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 6: than make probably the most horrific allegation you can about

841
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 6: an individual.

842
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: Deandra saw how the accusation cut deep professionally and personally.

843
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 4: It was awful.

844
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 6: I mean, this is the most egregious of allegations, like

845
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 6: I would much rather have my father, brother, any male

846
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 6: loved one be accused of murder.

847
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: She helped Woodnick figure out what to do next.

848
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 6: I think he just went into a more logical mindset

849
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 6: of this is someone who has fabricated a lot, so

850
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 6: I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, and then

851
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 6: how do we deal with it?

852
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: Woodnick has a wife and two teenage kids who were

853
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: in high school at the time, So after talking with

854
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: his firm, he called a family meeting.

855
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 4: And we don't do a serious family meetings. We are

856
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 4: not a serious family. So I brought the boys in.

857
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 4: I sat them down. I said, hey, guys, you need

858
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 4: to understand that in a case, I was accused of

859
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 4: being involved in a woman's rape. I want you guys

860
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 4: to know that it's not true. I know you know

861
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 4: it's not true. I want you to hear from me

862
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 4: that it's not true. But if you come home and

863
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 4: the police are here, that I've got it under control.

864
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 4: If the police show up, we had a game plan,

865
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 4: kissed me off. We spent the next two days contacting

866
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 4: the local police and the FBI.

867
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it wanted to get ahead of it. He had

868
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: nothing to hide.

869
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 4: I contacted the FBI, Stephanie. I contacted multiple police departments.

870
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 4: Not a soul knew what Laura was even talking about.

871
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 4: No one even said, oh, yes, there's an open investigation.

872
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 4: I mean nothing. They had no idea what I was

873
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: talking about. I don't even think there was ever a

874
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 4: police report involving it, because no one has ever contacted

875
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 4: me this many years later. It was all, in my opinion,

876
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 4: a lie. So yeah, this one pisses me off pretty good.

877
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 4: This one pisses me off pretty good.

878
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: I've spent hundreds of hours researching this case, and honestly,

879
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 1: it takes a lot to shock me at this point.

880
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: But sitting in Woodnock's office listening to him tell me

881
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: this story, I actually started to tear up. I believe

882
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: Woudnick when he says he wasn't involved in any criminal

883
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,479
Speaker 1: conspiracy to have Laura raped. Even after all these years,

884
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: Laura's allegation is still an emotional topic. It's deeply personal

885
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: for him. Woodnock's colleagues urged him to leave Greg's case

886
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: and find a replacement. Here's Deandra, you.

887
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 6: Have to take a step back and consider is this

888
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 6: worth it anymore? I mean, I went to law school

889
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 6: for three years. I've put my blood, sweat and tears

890
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 6: into this career, and to have someone just so cavalierly

891
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 6: throw that out there in an email, like, maybe we

892
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 6: need to remove ourselves from this situation because this is

893
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 6: very dangerous person.

894
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: Ultimately, wouldn'ick stepped away from the case.

895
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 4: Greg and I had a financially part ways at some

896
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: point it just did the nature of the beast, but

897
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: he and I have stayed close. He's a great guy.

898
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 4: We ended up handing it off to a dear colleague

899
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 4: of mind, a guy I really like, a great lawyer

900
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: who helped resolve it for Greg.

901
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: It took years for the abortion coercion case to finally

902
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: get dismissed, and in the end, nothing came of Laura's

903
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: rape allegation against Greg and Woodnick, no charges and no

904
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: further documentation in the public record. I asked Woodnick if

905
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: he considers himself another victim of Laura Owens.

906
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 4: I think people have suggested that I'm a victim in

907
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 4: this too. It was never about me being a victim.

908
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 4: The victims are these guys. I'm just a lawyer, a

909
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: lawyer was doing his job, and I think we did

910
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 4: a pretty okay job.

911
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: Two years later, Woodnick would read about a former Bachelor

912
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: contestant involved in a bizarre paternity case. Wouldnick immediately recognized

913
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: the pattern. This was Laura Owens, and when Clayton supporters

914
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 1: raised the funds for him to retain counsel, Wouldnick would

915
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: hesitate for just a moment.

916
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: Was I not happy with what Laura said about me? Absolutely?

917
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 4: Was that in my head. I'm sure it was somewhere

918
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 4: in my head, but it certainly wasn't my dominant thought process.

919
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: To Woodnick, Clayton's case represented something bigger. This was a pattern,

920
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: and maybe Clayton could be the one to finally bring

921
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: this to an end.

922
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 4: The fact that so many people's lives have been attempted

923
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 4: to be destroyed by Laura was a big deal in Clayton,

924
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 4: this guy who was already in the spotlight because of

925
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 4: his role on the Bachelor, he was kind of the

926
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 4: torch bearer to make sure that justice was served.

927
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: That's how Woodnick and Deandra found themselves back in the

928
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 1: courtroom with Laura Owens.

929
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 4: I was going to make sure I did everything I

930
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 4: could do that my team did everything we could do

931
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 4: to make sure we got justice for Clayton.

932
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: Coming up on the next episode of Love Trapped.

933
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to remind you again that you're not really

934
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 4: supposed to be dishonest depositions.

935
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 2: I'm well aware.

936
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 10: I thought maybe she had actually successfully trapped you by

937
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 10: senmenting herself.

938
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: I did not send the soulcial sound video.

939
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: This is the greatest programming in the history of YouTube.

940
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: This is why you do it live.

941
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it ever.

942
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 10: I need to hold this woman accountable.

943
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 3: This isn't about her, It's about the people that she's victimized.

944
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to

945
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,

946
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us

947
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.

948
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to

949
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at

950
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: Love Trapped pod at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped

951
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com. Love Trapped is a production

952
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in

953
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This show was executive produced by

954
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and Ben Fetterman, Written, produced and

955
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: hosted by Me Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Le.

956
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: Board producer on this episode is Sidney Gladou. Additional production

957
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: support from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri.

958
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: For iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio

959
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: editing and mastering by Anna McLain, Additional editing support by

960
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: Zach Proto and Matt Delvecio. Thank you to our voice

961
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: actors in this episode, Leslie Tolly, Kristen Melchirie, Todd Gans,

962
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: and Trey Morgan. This podcast was developed in collaboration with

963
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love

964
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided

965
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: by Mybe Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson,

966
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: Jessica Crincheck, Ali Canter and the entire iHeart podcast team.

967
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 1: And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,

968
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,