Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. You know, Drill.
Speaker 1: We come to you every Wednesday. This week's guest Grant Field.
Speaker 1: Grant is the coach of the Open champion Cam Smith.
Speaker 1: I was down in Australia last week and had a
Speaker 1: chance to sit down and talk to him. I'm a
Speaker 1: huge fan of the work that he does, and I
Speaker 1: think the work that he has done with Cam has
Speaker 1: been amazing. He talks a lot in the pod about
Speaker 1: how he's been Cam's coach really since about Kim was
Speaker 1: ten eleven years old, and that's a rarity to have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to work with a junior player that long
Speaker 1: and the success that they've had. But the way they
Speaker 1: work with him and how he works with Cam on
Speaker 1: a swing, I think it's a really really good insight
Speaker 1: to a player that isn't necessarily kind of out of
Speaker 1: that factory of players. You know, Cam isn't. He isn't
Speaker 1: six foot one, six foot two, doesn't bomb the golf ball.
Speaker 1: Miles has a very kind of unique individual golf swing,
Speaker 1: but it works. He's a great player that breakout year
Speaker 1: last year to win the Players Championship and the Open Championship,
Speaker 1: and the way he won the Open Championship and that historic,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, one of the great duels in Open
Speaker 1: Championship history. Down the stretch with ry McElroy, we talk
Speaker 1: about that. We talk a lot about that with Grant,
Speaker 1: but really I think this is also an opportunity for
Speaker 1: everyone listening. It's it's about junior development. It's about developing
Speaker 1: a player from a young age and how you go
Speaker 1: about doing that. So I'm excited for everybody to hear
Speaker 1: Grant talk about it, probably because Grant lives full time
Speaker 1: in Australia. He's not a household name for a lot
Speaker 1: of people then you know on the instructor train, but
Speaker 1: he's one of the best out there and he's doing
Speaker 1: great work. So sit back and enjoy listening to Grant Field. Grant,
Speaker 1: we're down here in Australia for the live event. Before
Speaker 1: we start talking about Cam Smith, wh I know you've
Speaker 1: worked with since he was a junior. The fact that
Speaker 1: any tour would come there, whether it was the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: whether it's the European Tour, but the caliber of players
Speaker 1: that are here this week on display for Australia, for
Speaker 1: the fans in Australia, but for golf in Australia. How
Speaker 1: important do you think this week is for golf in Australia.
Speaker 2: I think it's massive. I think, you know, like, to
Speaker 2: be perfectly honest, I've been involved with golf now, I've
Speaker 2: been playing since I was an eleven year old kid,
Speaker 2: and you know, we've never seen a field like this.
Speaker 2: I mean even go back to the days where Nicholas
Speaker 2: would come out and Palmer and those guys and player,
Speaker 2: but we didn't have the depth that's in this field today.
Speaker 2: You know, like the top end was really quite strong
Speaker 2: and the same as when, yeah, we used to you know,
Speaker 2: we'd get guys from different times where you say Rory
Speaker 2: had come out or Jordan would come out, or somebody'd
Speaker 2: come out, but it'd only be one or two guys,
Speaker 2: and maybe even around the Presence Cup we'd get a
Speaker 2: couple more for an ASI Open. But to have a
Speaker 2: field like this, it's got I think thirteen major winners,
Speaker 2: you know, like just doesn't happen. So and you can
Speaker 2: tell by the crowds like this is nuts this week.
Speaker 2: This is something that we've never seen. And yeah, arguably
Speaker 2: you know, even at the biggest golf to ones and
Speaker 2: majors and you know that's what it feels like.
Speaker 1: Yet it really does. I mean to have all of
Speaker 1: these great players in one place. Obviously the fans they
Speaker 1: get to see it, but there are so many I mean,
Speaker 1: we've seen so many kids here, so many junior golfers Australia.
Speaker 1: I mean, it took me almost two days to get here.
Speaker 1: It's a long way from everywhere, and to come down here,
Speaker 1: it's always so special. It's always so much fun. But
Speaker 1: for the junior golfers that are here that get to
Speaker 1: see these players, what impact do you think it has
Speaker 1: and can hopefully have on future generations of golfers to
Speaker 1: see you guys like Brooks, guys like DJ Phil Cam,
Speaker 1: but all of these great players in one place. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I said to Cam yesterday, I said, like if you
Speaker 2: have a look at the a man of kids that
Speaker 2: are around and like you said, take away, whether it's
Speaker 2: Lebel PJ to it, these kids now are attracted to golf,
Speaker 2: you know, like they've seen these guys in the range there.
Speaker 2: You know, they're so invested now in watching these guys
Speaker 2: and their careers. And like all of us, you know,
Speaker 2: we all had our heroes growing up. For us in
Speaker 2: Australia was Greg, you know, I said, like, and now
Speaker 2: you know that, like Wade talked about it the other day.
Speaker 2: He goes like Greg was an idol of mine. Now
Speaker 2: I'm playing on a tour that he's the commissioner for
Speaker 2: and you know, like they went out shark dive and
Speaker 2: the other day like that's what dreams are made of.
Speaker 2: And you see it all the time. You see, you know,
Speaker 2: those stories about a young kid meeting you know, their
Speaker 2: idol and then then becoming that later on. You know,
Speaker 2: so I don't doubt there's a kid here this week
Speaker 2: that will play on tours and they'll say, I remember
Speaker 2: the time that I saw Cam Smith or Dustin Johnson
Speaker 2: or whoever it might be play golf at Live Adelaide.
Speaker 2: You know. So it's very cool.
Speaker 1: And was this golf course, Grange golf Course, what a
Speaker 1: really cool place. It's not something that anybody would think
Speaker 1: would be, you know, one of the greatest golf course
Speaker 1: the world. But talk to me about what what makes
Speaker 1: Australian golf course design so special? Because when I come
Speaker 1: to these golf courses in OZ and you see, to me,
Speaker 1: the bunkering is the best bunkering anywhere in the world,
Speaker 1: the way that the bunkers are right up on the
Speaker 1: greens and then they just basically fall off. What do
Speaker 1: you think the design of these golf courses are so
Speaker 1: unique and so special.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you look, especially in Melbourne in Adelaide,
Speaker 2: you know we sort of get that. We don't so
Speaker 2: much get it up in Queensland. But you know, the bunkering,
Speaker 2: what you said, is is out of this world. And
Speaker 2: if you short side yourself in this bunkering, unless you're
Speaker 2: holding a twenty footer, you're probably not getting up and down.
Speaker 2: So it then forces you to be strategic about your play, right,
Speaker 2: So and then what you'll find, I mean this week
Speaker 2: in Adelaide they had a heap of rain last Saturday
Speaker 2: night which sort of softened the greens a little bit.
Speaker 2: These greens get like they normally do, and they're a
Speaker 2: bit firms all of a sudden, you know, they're firm,
Speaker 2: they're fast, you know there's some good slope in them.
Speaker 2: And then you're getting there some of those short bunkering
Speaker 2: and you know it'sallenging, so you're not overly long, you know,
Speaker 2: but again you know you'll see the guys this week,
Speaker 2: you know, a few irons off ts and you don't
Speaker 2: see that much these days. You know, you see them
Speaker 2: hit a lot of drivers, Whereas around here, you know,
Speaker 2: you've got to be in the fairway and you've got
Speaker 2: to be coming from the right spot, and if you're not,
Speaker 2: you get penalized.
Speaker 1: One of the things that i DJ was saying about
Speaker 1: a lot of these greens are raised up greens, and
Speaker 1: there isn't any real rough around the greens, but there
Speaker 1: are a lot of slopes. And DJ were saying, you know,
Speaker 1: as short as the golf course is and as easy
Speaker 1: as it might look, you get out of position going
Speaker 1: into the green, and then gravity takes off and the
Speaker 1: ball will go to a place to where you're struggling
Speaker 1: to make pops.
Speaker 2: And then it's really tight and you're over a bunker
Speaker 2: to a short pin, and you know, like you said,
Speaker 2: there's there's a couple of holes out there where you
Speaker 2: can land it middle of the fairway and finish in
Speaker 2: the right rough just off the green right, and then
Speaker 2: like you said, then it's a challenge to get the
Speaker 2: ball up and down from there. So I think, yeah, look,
Speaker 2: I mean the guys are going to do well around here,
Speaker 2: and like you can see, you know, Taylor shot ten
Speaker 2: under yesterday. I mean probably didn't see ten under out there,
Speaker 2: but you can see six seven eight. But equally, it's
Speaker 2: not hard to shoot over path. So I think it's
Speaker 2: a great test, and I think it's great because it's
Speaker 2: not what they play every week.
Speaker 1: It's so special Cam Smith. I just can't say enough
Speaker 1: about Cam as a person, but as a golfer, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's unbelievable. Talk me through the story. I mean, how
Speaker 1: long have you been working? When did you first meet Cam? So?
Speaker 2: I first met Cam when he was ten. So I
Speaker 2: was coaching a junior squad up on the Sunshine Coast.
Speaker 2: So his golf club was in our region, and he
Speaker 2: came to this clinic as a as a ten year old,
Speaker 2: and they split up the group so there was three coaches,
Speaker 2: three players per coach. He was put in my group,
Speaker 2: thankfully as it turns out now, but yeah, he was
Speaker 2: put into my group. And then so we did the
Speaker 2: clinic and you know, actually even at ten, you know,
Speaker 2: he was a cheeky little thing, and you know, I
Speaker 2: had a great relationship. And then the next year his
Speaker 2: dad sort of said to me I think it's time
Speaker 2: for him to have, you know, coaching. He really likes you,
Speaker 2: you know, you interested in coaching, and yeah, I was
Speaker 2: like yeah, sure, you know, like not thinking, you know,
Speaker 2: nineteen years later we're going to be where we are now.
Speaker 2: But and then the next year he came back into
Speaker 2: that squad and same thing. You know, he just kept
Speaker 2: progressing and then you know he's you know, obviously at
Speaker 2: ten or eleveny he showed promise.
Speaker 1: But both what did you see because we all see
Speaker 1: these kids, right, I mean I work with we both
Speaker 1: do the same thing you work with juniors and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like last year I met Tom Kim for the
Speaker 1: first time in Saudi Arabia, who's gone on to do
Speaker 1: great things. He played with DJ for the first two
Speaker 1: rounds in Saudi Arabia. I kind of watched the way
Speaker 1: he handled himself. Obviously he's not eleven or twelve. But
Speaker 1: I immediately called Trevor, a woman who I've had on
Speaker 1: my podcast before. I called Trevor and I said, listen,
Speaker 1: you've got to look at this guy for a president's stuf.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like,
Speaker 1: this kid has something. What did you see in cam
Speaker 1: at a young age. That were some of the qualities
Speaker 1: that you think helped him get to the stage and
Speaker 1: the place that he is in his career now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean as a as a like ten
Speaker 2: or eleven year old, I wouldn't say that I was thinking
Speaker 2: that this kid's going to be a superstar. I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, one thing he did have was he was
Speaker 2: his competitiveness. You know, like we would have chipping comps
Speaker 2: and putting comps and even at that age, but he
Speaker 2: hated to lose and very rarely did he lose against
Speaker 2: much older kids. Right. But it wasn't until he was about,
Speaker 2: I reckon fourteen or fifteen where I really started to think,
Speaker 2: this kid's going to be, you know, really good. Right.
Speaker 2: He started to compete in some you know, some amateur
Speaker 2: men's events, and remember him shooting twenty nine around the
Speaker 2: back nine at Pacific Harbor in the Queens LD Amateur,
Speaker 2: which was at the time one of his biggest events
Speaker 2: that he played, and he shot sixty six to the
Speaker 2: first round as a fifteen ro ollder. And Pacific Harbor
Speaker 2: is a really tough course, blows a lot, tricky little thing,
Speaker 2: you know, And I went Okay, this is you know,
Speaker 2: not many kids have got that right, and you know,
Speaker 2: as we as he's progressed, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: things I think that help can is that he didn't
Speaker 2: have that length or he didn't have you know, so
Speaker 2: he had to develop so many other skills. And you know,
Speaker 2: obviously a lot's made of his short game and he's
Speaker 2: he's putting, but I think his competitiveness and he's drived
Speaker 2: to just you know, not let him beat you, and
Speaker 2: the mindset behind that, you know, like one of the
Speaker 2: things Cam always does really well, he's he's never had
Speaker 2: a handbrake, you know, and he's whenever he's gone low,
Speaker 2: from a very early age, he just never stopped. Remember
Speaker 2: once he shot twenty four under in a Greg Norman
Speaker 2: Junior Masters, so as a tournament we have down here,
Speaker 2: and you know, so he was leading. He's about sixteen
Speaker 2: or seventeen at this time.
Speaker 1: Before under when you're sixteen years old, I don't care
Speaker 1: where you're playing. I don't care if it's a pitching
Speaker 1: part and it's there's easy golf courses. It was low scores.
Speaker 1: Especially if you can shoot low scores grant at a
Speaker 1: young age, that's a huge choosing because not a lot
Speaker 1: of players know how to shoot low score no, And
Speaker 1: we always you know, we we have parents, we have players,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure sure you get this. Hey, what are
Speaker 1: the great players do when you know they get a
Speaker 1: good round going? And you see these kids, right, hey,
Speaker 1: you were six under through like thirteen holes and then
Speaker 1: you ended up finishing three under. What happened? And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I just started to protect and they said, what do
Speaker 1: the good players do if a good if one of
Speaker 1: the best players in the world gets to six under,
Speaker 1: he's trying to get to seven under, it's trying to
Speaker 1: get to eight under. He's trying to get to nine under.
Speaker 2: Well, and that was the thing with that event, right,
Speaker 2: So through three rounds he was sixteen under okay, and no,
Speaker 2: fifteen under and he rings me and I said, how'd
Speaker 2: you go? And he goes, yeah, pretty good, And I
Speaker 2: said would you shoot today? He goes nine and I
Speaker 2: went nine under and he goes yeah. So like he's
Speaker 2: leading and then he finishes by shooting nine under to
Speaker 2: finish twenty four under for the event. And I'm just like,
Speaker 2: you know, and I think MeV and Cliff, you know
Speaker 2: who's played in Europe and you know, you got to
Speaker 2: like maybe sixteen or seventeen, and the next behind them
Speaker 2: was like three, Like they streeted the field like even
Speaker 2: back then, you know, like it was just you know,
Speaker 2: really uncommon to shoot that low at that event. And
Speaker 2: you know, they're the sort of things that he was
Speaker 2: doing early on, and then you know, he's one of
Speaker 2: the things I think is the best things that Cam's
Speaker 2: done is is continue to get better, you know, every year,
Speaker 2: And that's you know, that's one.
Speaker 1: Of the mantras that I always see two players. If
Speaker 1: you can just every year get get better, whether it's
Speaker 1: one percent, everybody thinks, Okay, I've got to get one
Speaker 1: hundred percent better this year. I've got to get twenty.
Speaker 1: You just need to get You just can't have a
Speaker 1: year where you go backwards if you want to keep
Speaker 1: going in a trajectory that's going to get you to
Speaker 1: where you want to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes getting better is actually doing the same
Speaker 2: thing more often, you know what I mean? Like you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like I think sometimes I kind
Speaker 2: of look at it when I work with a player,
Speaker 2: I'll go, Okay, is what you're doing currently good enough
Speaker 2: for you to do what you want to do right.
Speaker 2: And if the answer is no, is it a work
Speaker 2: in progress? Right, So we're on the right path. We
Speaker 2: just need to stay the course or b will it
Speaker 2: never be right? So if the answers it will never
Speaker 2: be then something needs to change. Right. But if the
Speaker 2: answer is we're on our trajectory that we're on, we've
Speaker 2: just got to get better at it, you know, and
Speaker 2: whether it be a technical thing, whether it be you know,
Speaker 2: just getting more comfortable being out on tour. You know,
Speaker 2: like I look at Jed at the moment. I think
Speaker 2: you and I've talked about these jet's got a really
Speaker 2: really big upside and he's got a big set of tools.
Speaker 2: He's just got to get more comfortable being where he is.
Speaker 2: And you know that takes time, you know, And I
Speaker 2: think so he's on the right trajectory. We're not looking
Speaker 2: to change things. We're just looking to get better at him.
Speaker 1: Jed Morgan's a guy that's on Cam's ripper team. Was
Speaker 1: there a discussion Cam took. I mean, there's two routes, right,
Speaker 1: but you can go, especially if you're from oz and
Speaker 1: you know those roads are well traveled, you know. The
Speaker 1: modern generation Adam Scott even though he went and Scotty
Speaker 1: played one year in college golf, made the decision to
Speaker 1: go play college golf in America, even though he played
Speaker 1: one year at un LB, he took that route. Was
Speaker 1: there ever a discussion with cam did you guys did
Speaker 1: he look at playing college golf in the States?
Speaker 2: Not really? Yeah, he's not smart enough to go to college. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's not true. I guess one of the things with Australia,
Speaker 2: so back when Scotty was going through, there wasn't really
Speaker 2: the support of the programs for him to follow, whereas now,
Speaker 2: you know in golf in Australia we have you know,
Speaker 2: in Queensland we have the queens and Academy of Sport program,
Speaker 2: we have a Victorian program. In New South Wales has
Speaker 2: got a program so and they're all Golf Australia programs.
Speaker 2: So and then once players go through those programs, we
Speaker 2: also have a rookie squad okay, and the rookie squad
Speaker 2: is the young pro So we have a private investor
Speaker 2: who you know, funds you know a lot of the
Speaker 2: young kids when they go out and tour, so there's
Speaker 2: money for those kids to then you know, in those
Speaker 2: first sort of three four five years their young pro life,
Speaker 2: I guess you could say, to help support them. So
Speaker 2: we actually have the pathway which a lot of them
Speaker 2: can follow. So my sort of take on it is,
Speaker 2: if you've got a young guy that wants to go
Speaker 2: to college and wants to get a degree, and wants
Speaker 2: a life experience and all those things, it's a great
Speaker 2: opportunity to go to university in the States. But for
Speaker 2: the guy who just wants to be a golfer, I
Speaker 2: think we can take part, you know, take care of
Speaker 2: that early part of that next level of development. And
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things sometimes I think,
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the good colleges have it,
Speaker 2: but some of the other ones there's not really that
Speaker 2: development piece for when they go over there. And whereas
Speaker 2: I think that age between sort of eighteen and that
Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three, there's still got to get
Speaker 2: a lot better before they're ready to go out on tour.
Speaker 1: So Tiger, when my dad worked with Tigers at Stanford,
Speaker 1: he played at Stanford for a number of years, and
Speaker 1: then they got to a point where you know, my
Speaker 1: dad was looking at his game and Tiger had really
Speaker 1: wanted to turn pro and my dad kept saying no, no,
Speaker 1: So there was that moment where Tetob said to my dad,
Speaker 1: what do you think and my dad said, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: ready to go now.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When was the moment when you said to Camp all right,
Speaker 1: you aren't aw ready to turn pro and make a
Speaker 1: career of this and give this a real chance and
Speaker 1: see how far you can go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he turned pro at twenty. So Cam like
Speaker 2: got into a lot of say Aussie Tour, you know,
Speaker 2: professional events from about the age of seventeen.
Speaker 1: And the scary thing is that's back when there actually
Speaker 1: was a tour down here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well the fact that there's no tour to play.
Speaker 2: Well now there is, but it's not really you know what, Yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly right, you know. And so Cam had sort of
Speaker 2: finished fourth in the Queensland PGA, had finished tenth in
Speaker 2: an Australian Open. It'd had some really good, you know
Speaker 2: results in bigger events. And for me, you know a
Speaker 2: lot of people say, why isn't he turned pro yet?
Speaker 2: And it's like, because he's not ready, you know, but
Speaker 2: he wasn't ready for the level that we wanted him
Speaker 2: to be. You know, he could have played golf in
Speaker 2: Australia and he would have made money and he probably
Speaker 2: could have gone to Asia or whatever. But we just
Speaker 2: thought that little bit of extra development was going to
Speaker 2: pay off in the long run. And you know, looks
Speaker 2: like we sort of made the right choice.
Speaker 1: I think I had Truman Thah who was the commissioner
Speaker 1: of the Asian Tour. The road that Cam went is
Speaker 1: not the road that a lot of people that win majors.
Speaker 1: He didn't go play the corn Ferry Tour. He didn't
Speaker 1: go play the PGA Tour. He started not a lot
Speaker 1: of people know this. He started down in Alls and
Speaker 1: then he went and played kind of in the Asia
Speaker 1: Pacific region from a professional level, played Asian Tour. Did
Speaker 1: he go.
Speaker 2: Playing Well, there's a there's a story to that, all right, right,
Speaker 2: So basically Kim went to corn Ferry or at the time,
Speaker 2: he went right and knew that and missed his tee
Speaker 2: off time. So you know, for Kim, say, what happened
Speaker 2: was when he was leaving, We're like, you haven't got
Speaker 2: a lot of time to prevent him, and he goes, no,
Speaker 2: I'll be fine, Like you know, I've been to the
Speaker 2: Woodlands at plenty of times. We have a Golf Australia
Speaker 2: camp there, or we did have a Golf Australia camp there,
Speaker 2: played there heaps of times. I'll be fine. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: no worries. So anyway, he gets over there and you know,
Speaker 2: gets to go and have his practice around on the
Speaker 2: Tuesday and he goes over to the tea and says,
Speaker 2: oh am, I right to go out and play and
Speaker 2: they said, oh sorry, who ay and he said, oh
Speaker 2: Kerin Smith. They said, you've missed your te off time
Speaker 2: and he went sorry. He thought the tournament started on
Speaker 2: the Thursday, like every tournament known a man, and the
Speaker 2: actual tea off was on the Tuesday, and he'd missed
Speaker 2: his time. So that day I'm looking scrolling through the
Speaker 2: list and I couldn't find him. I went back up,
Speaker 2: couldn't find him, and then I went down to the
Speaker 2: bottom and it had disqualified. Next minute, the phone rings
Speaker 2: and Cameron's on the phone and you know, obviously upset
Speaker 2: and you know, like he's just flown all the way
Speaker 2: over there, and you know, anyway, so at that moment,
Speaker 2: I said, all right, we go to Aussie to a school,
Speaker 2: we get a card there, we go to Asia and
Speaker 2: I said we'll work on backdoring ourselves onto a tour.
Speaker 2: And you know, I didn't think it'd be as quickly
Speaker 2: as it was, because what happened was he got his
Speaker 2: asient too. We got both cards, and then got his
Speaker 2: agent to a card for his second in his second
Speaker 2: Agent Tour event, and then had like I think maybe
Speaker 2: six or seven top tens, and then got into the
Speaker 2: Cooming Classic, which used to be in my life, and
Speaker 2: ran fifth in that event, which got him as start
Speaker 2: the next week, and then he got some sponsors invites
Speaker 2: and basically so look, he ended up on the US
Speaker 2: two a way quicker than he would have if he
Speaker 2: actually went through web dot com and had to go
Speaker 2: down that path. So you know, at the time, you know,
Speaker 2: it felt like we'd missed an opportunity, but you know,
Speaker 2: by sort of rerouting and taking another opportunity, ended up
Speaker 2: there probably, like I said, quicker than he would have.
Speaker 1: Do you think, I mean, going through that experience, A
Speaker 1: lot of players don't come back from that, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're young, you're from Australia. I mean, you're in the States,
Speaker 1: trying to go to web dot com Q school. You
Speaker 1: miss your tea time by your own yeah, yes, state,
Speaker 1: and that could be a huge setback. Knowing Cam and
Speaker 1: being around him and kind of watching him, you can
Speaker 1: tell that his personality lends itself to him just going
Speaker 1: I'll shake that off. Yeah, made the mistake and I'll
Speaker 1: just move forward.
Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the biggest things we will
Speaker 2: really quick to set a new path, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: like we didn't let that define us. It was like, okay,
Speaker 2: sooner we could go right, this is now a new
Speaker 2: direction and we'll get there another way, you know. And
Speaker 2: that's the sort of the way we went about it.
Speaker 2: And you know, like you said, you've got to have the
Speaker 2: right sort of attitude in which he has and yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, like everybody, I mean, there's plenty of knocks
Speaker 2: out onto it. You know. Look, it doesn't always go away,
Speaker 2: and he handles them just a bit as good as anybody.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about Cam is he's
Speaker 1: a little bit of kind of an I think he's
Speaker 1: kind of an old school throwback. The golf swing certainly
Speaker 1: isn't anything like what we see the modern golf swings
Speaker 1: look like now. He's not blessed with the size of
Speaker 1: guys like Adam Scott and you know, the big tall
Speaker 1: guys that had him, you know, these beautiful everything. So
Speaker 1: he's a little bit kind of all. My dad loves
Speaker 1: camp Smith because he's like I loved he's a little
Speaker 1: bit across the line the face and stuff. That golf swing.
Speaker 1: Did he have that golf swing from the start, did
Speaker 1: it evolve? Was it taught to him? And has there
Speaker 1: ever been a want or a thought to try and
Speaker 1: change it to make It's not that it's not orthodox
Speaker 1: because there's so many people. You know, in the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties it swung like that, but the modern golfers
Speaker 1: now the club tends to point way more to the left.
Speaker 1: It's way more. You see more guys now laid off, yeah,
Speaker 1: and flat and their arms. Then you do see kind
Speaker 1: of that a little bit across the line that Cam has.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. Look, he didn't actually have most of
Speaker 2: that growing up. And if you watch, like with this
Speaker 2: shorter stuff, it's pretty neutral and fair online. Right. So
Speaker 2: it's as the club gets longer, and you know, especially
Speaker 2: with sort of driver and through with one of the
Speaker 2: things that happens is, you know his arms sort of
Speaker 2: overtravel a little bit. That right arm gets a little
Speaker 2: bit behind him, and when that happens, he sort of
Speaker 2: has to side bend, and because he's a little shut
Speaker 2: and it's interesting because there's those arms travel a little
Speaker 2: bit longer, club face shuts a little bit more. And
Speaker 2: then as soon as he has to side bend with
Speaker 2: a shut club face, now he's swinging too far right
Speaker 2: with a shut face right. So he's got both. So
Speaker 2: when Cam's hitting his fade like, he's a really good
Speaker 2: driver of the golf coll So for me, it's like
Speaker 2: really important that we hit the right shot. You know.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I think one of the things, being
Speaker 2: as good as he is is they tend to want
Speaker 2: to hit both ways and hit all the shots whereas
Speaker 2: and through the bag up until that top end, he's
Speaker 2: fine to do that, but once he gets to that
Speaker 2: driving through, he really needs to hit that little fade
Speaker 2: to match up to what he does. And when he
Speaker 2: does that, it's fantastic. It's just you know, look where
Speaker 2: we are trying to get, you know, where he's maintaining
Speaker 2: a little bit more with where he's got a bit
Speaker 2: better structure of the arms and the body at the top.
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, being a small kid early on,
Speaker 2: that's where his extra speed felt like it came from.
Speaker 2: Is that a little bit longer armswing so again, and
Speaker 2: he doesn't necessarily need it. It's just, you know, like
Speaker 2: a lot of them, it's hard to get rid of
Speaker 2: once you've you know, that's sort of been the pattern.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I mean, the modern golfer now is playing
Speaker 1: golf more somewhat one dimensionally. There is you know, Brandal
Speaker 1: Shamblee beats the drama that you've got to have all
Speaker 1: the shots. I've stuckn Andy Ogletree on about this. He
Speaker 1: said that he played with Tiger when he was an
Speaker 1: amateur and it was just amazing that he had all
Speaker 1: the shots. He wanted to hit the right shot at
Speaker 1: the right time. So, but very few players can move
Speaker 1: it both directions. And I hear so many players that
Speaker 1: are struggling to get to that next level and they say,
Speaker 1: you know, tell me what type of you know, let
Speaker 1: me talk, tell me what type shot you hit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I like to move it both ways. And
Speaker 1: then you watch them and are not really good at
Speaker 1: drawing it, they're not really good at fading it. And
Speaker 1: I think so many players grant spending and norm they're
Speaker 1: trying to play. They're trying to get good at everything,
Speaker 1: but they're not really good at anything. Their average to mediocre.
Speaker 1: And I think Cam is a great example in my opinion,
Speaker 1: if you're going to make it, and you're going to
Speaker 1: make it to winning majors and being a superstar, you
Speaker 1: have to be great and quantifiably great at something and
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what it is. You can be a
Speaker 1: great green reader, you can be a great win player,
Speaker 1: but there has to be something that you anchor your
Speaker 1: game too. We all know that Cam to me is
Speaker 1: very much like a Jordan Speith. You watch him pot
Speaker 1: if he's got a fifteen foot you're more surprised if
Speaker 1: he misses it than you are. You expect him to
Speaker 1: make it. Was he always a great potter and where
Speaker 1: does it come from for him?
Speaker 2: So so I think one of the things, I'll sort
Speaker 2: of just backtrack a little bit, but like if you
Speaker 2: look last year, Camm, one of the things came doesn't
Speaker 2: get enough credit for his design play. You know, he
Speaker 2: was I think third in strokes gained approaching the green
Speaker 2: last year. We did a sort of analysis, like you know,
Speaker 2: from basically two hundred in like he was a long
Speaker 2: way ahead of the rest of the field, right, So, yeah,
Speaker 2: that he's where Jenny short game. Obviously he's putting, you know,
Speaker 2: so our goal is if we can get in the
Speaker 2: fairway just to touch more. Very few, very few eat him.
Speaker 2: So but with the putting, you know, look, as a
Speaker 2: kid he was who was a good putter. We've always
Speaker 2: worked really hard on our basics. So you know, we
Speaker 2: use a putting mirror every single day that he warms up,
Speaker 2: you know, even you know, when I'm there, you know,
Speaker 2: I make sure he's aligned properly, So we're really diligent
Speaker 2: with his alignment stuff. And then from there, you know,
Speaker 2: he's very neutral with the delivery of the putter, and
Speaker 2: you know it's hard to sort of mess that up
Speaker 2: a lot of the times, you know, So we're really
Speaker 2: sort of big on our basic structure. And then from
Speaker 2: there there's also the creativity and the you know, the
Speaker 2: desire to hold part. So I think, again, going back
Speaker 2: to that competitiveness that I talked about earlier, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest traits I see of the best
Speaker 2: players is their ability to hold that eight or ten
Speaker 2: foot of the part, you know, and I think there's
Speaker 2: definitely a you know, there's an innate skill that they
Speaker 2: have to be able to keep momentum and things like that,
Speaker 2: and Kem's always had that, you know, And I don't
Speaker 2: know what it is. I mean, obviously he's technically very good,
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's all those things, but there's this
Speaker 2: innate ability to hold puts when they need to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you watch him putt, it looks it
Speaker 1: looks very natural, and his approach to putting is very natural.
Speaker 1: He doesn't look like someone that is very very mechanical.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like he does a lot of drills.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting what you said that a lot
Speaker 1: of the technical work is in what happens before he
Speaker 1: actually hits the pott.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think so many people listening to this are
Speaker 1: so over technique centric. Everything is technique, technique, technique, and
Speaker 1: he's doing the majority of his technical work, but he's
Speaker 1: making sure the car is set up. He's getting in
Speaker 1: the car, making sure all the mirrors are in the
Speaker 1: right place, making sure that seat's in the right place
Speaker 1: so he can get comfortable to drive the car. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And how much is cam putting ones? How much do
Speaker 1: you think it's instinct? And how much do you think
Speaker 1: it's his practice and getting better.
Speaker 2: I think they both working with each other. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's fine to be creative and have
Speaker 2: great instinct, but if you're not set up and aiming
Speaker 2: in the right spot makes it really difficult, right, So
Speaker 2: I think that you know, he's very diligent with how
Speaker 2: he gets into the ball. Like you said, he spends,
Speaker 2: when I say, a lot of time, but he's really
Speaker 2: diligent with how he aims the face, how he sets
Speaker 2: his body, you know, square to the face. You're seeing
Speaker 2: pretty his hand on his leg to sort of balance
Speaker 2: himself out. Then he just sort of moves his left
Speaker 2: hand in and once he sort of said, you know,
Speaker 2: the other thing you'll see with his with his eyes
Speaker 2: tracing to the hole. He's got the you know, like
Speaker 2: all good parts, they have this real slow trace towards
Speaker 2: the whole. I'll hold that gaze and then they'll come
Speaker 2: back and then he sort of pulls the trigger and
Speaker 2: kind of just reacts to it. So I think, you know,
Speaker 2: and one of the things for us is, you know,
Speaker 2: that hasn't changed for a long long time. So you know,
Speaker 2: he just and and this is the same with Cam
Speaker 2: the whole way through. He's very good at sticking to
Speaker 2: what we know works, you know, regardless of whether it
Speaker 2: works all the time, doesn't mean that we don't go
Speaker 2: you know, because we know we've got enough evidence now
Speaker 2: the data points that works pretty well. Right. So, and
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we talk about sort of his
Speaker 2: pieces of the puzzle, you know, what are all the
Speaker 2: pieces of his puzzle? Right? There might be this not
Speaker 2: the same pieces that Dustin has or Brooks has or whoever,
Speaker 2: but they're his pieces, right and how do we sort
Speaker 2: of get them operating to the best of our ability
Speaker 2: as often as possible.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's one, to me, one of the
Speaker 1: strengths that Cam has because obviously there are going to
Speaker 1: be tournaments where Cam is playing with players and they're gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, Rory the Bombers, you know, they're going to
Speaker 1: run it past him, right, And it's always been something
Speaker 1: that I think is the strength of his that he
Speaker 1: doesn't really seem to be worried about that and he's
Speaker 1: not chasing speed. He's not it does he never comes
Speaker 1: across as someone that is chasing something that he doesn't have.
Speaker 1: Like you said, he seems to be really really comfortable
Speaker 1: and confident in the toolbox that he has, and he
Speaker 1: has a lot of tools in the toolbox and he says, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't have that tool, but I have these tools,
Speaker 1: and with these tools, I can make something pretty special.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know. I think early on, you know, there
Speaker 2: was a little bit that we'd look at guys like
Speaker 2: Dustin and Brooks and go, well, when they're on, we
Speaker 2: can't compete. But the reality is, like you said, like
Speaker 2: Camp's skills set is just different. You know, it's no
Speaker 2: better or worse, it's just different. Right, So we've got
Speaker 2: really good at knowing what that is. Like I said,
Speaker 2: you know, he's one of the best in the world
Speaker 2: from two hundred in. You know, when we're hitting the
Speaker 2: right shapes off the tea and you know he's making
Speaker 2: the right moves off the te you know, he's world
Speaker 2: class and you know, hard to be as we saw
Speaker 2: last year. So you know, I think it's just getting
Speaker 2: really good at knowing what you're you know, what you
Speaker 2: bring and if you know that that's good enough, then
Speaker 2: staying on track and sticking to you know, your way
Speaker 2: of doing things.
Speaker 1: The breakout year last year players champion the Open champion.
Speaker 1: I mean, what an amazing accomplishment. Let's go back to
Speaker 1: the Open Championship. I think every I expected on that
Speaker 1: Sunday for Rory to birdie three out of the first four,
Speaker 1: put the foot down and kind of get that next major.
Speaker 1: It would have been a huge win in the kind
Speaker 1: of live kind of versus the PGA Tour thing. He
Speaker 1: didn't get it done, but I think the way that
Speaker 1: Cam played on that study, what do you remember about that?
Speaker 1: And I've always said that when players that I've been
Speaker 1: lucky enough to be around that win major championships, there's
Speaker 1: something different about them that week and I can never
Speaker 1: put my finger on it. You know, we're just removed.
Speaker 1: Brooks led the Masters for three rounds. The difference between
Speaker 1: winning the week before in Orlando on live. He was
Speaker 1: different at the Masters, even though he didn't get the
Speaker 1: job done, but he had a legit chance. But there
Speaker 1: was something different and I'm still trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what that was. Was there anything that you saw that
Speaker 1: week that made looking back on it, that you go
Speaker 1: that was just a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, the week before in Scotland, the first two
Speaker 2: rounds played okay early and then sort of on that
Speaker 2: second day, the wind got up a lot and he
Speaker 2: almost looked like missing the cut and kind of ground
Speaker 2: his way in and I think made the cut on
Speaker 2: the number or by one, I can't remember it is exactly,
Speaker 2: but only just made the cut and then played really,
Speaker 2: really nice on the weekend, hit the ball grade, everything
Speaker 2: was just you know, ended up running tenth that week
Speaker 2: and there was just a different feel going from that weekend,
Speaker 2: and it was so important that he made that cut.
Speaker 2: I think that it sort of just led him into
Speaker 2: you know, those two rounds we got to St. Andrews.
Speaker 2: We didn't do much on the Monday, literally walked with
Speaker 2: a putter for a few holes and had a chip
Speaker 2: and apart.
Speaker 1: And they see him do he's again a little bit
Speaker 1: of an old school throwback. You don't see that nowadays, right,
Speaker 1: You don't see you certainly don't see that from young
Speaker 1: kids right now. You know in there you know under
Speaker 1: you know what's camp hold this can down right. So
Speaker 1: he's in late twenties, but you don't see a lot
Speaker 1: of world class superstar players just going around a major
Speaker 1: with Potter. You'll see that sometimes and Djo always says,
Speaker 1: I don't get that, bro He's like, I don't understand
Speaker 1: what guys are doing. So the fact that he's doing
Speaker 1: that when he's out there and he's just walking around
Speaker 1: with a potter, it's a major champion. What's the thought
Speaker 1: process behind this and what actually is he trying to achieve?
Speaker 2: Okay, so first of all, yeah, he's not treating majors
Speaker 2: any different to a normal week. You know, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of guys going to majors they try and
Speaker 2: get there early, like you know, you see.
Speaker 1: It's the one where you can overprepare.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and then guys are there and they've
Speaker 2: literally played their tournament before Thursday. Right. So Cam had
Speaker 2: a big weekend, you know, he played really nicely. Actually
Speaker 2: was feeling a bit off as well, but you know,
Speaker 2: just wanted to get a feel like there's almost talk
Speaker 2: we weren't going to do anything on Monday, right. So
Speaker 2: he's played there a number of times, so he felt
Speaker 2: comfortable with that. But he says, look, let's just go
Speaker 2: for a walk and we'll take a wedge ind of putter,
Speaker 2: and so we just did a little bit for you know,
Speaker 2: four or five holes whatever it was, and then only
Speaker 2: played nine holes each of the next two days, so
Speaker 2: you know, I did a rain session before and a
Speaker 2: little bit after both days, and he was in and
Speaker 2: out and ready to go. And then yeah, there was
Speaker 2: just this sense of calm the whole week, you know,
Speaker 2: like what you're talking about about something being different, like
Speaker 2: he it was a focused calm though, you know, like
Speaker 2: it was. I remember it was funny the so obviously
Speaker 2: led after the first two rounds, and then the third
Speaker 2: round it played quite nicely but didn't put as well.
Speaker 2: He had early and shot one over and walks in
Speaker 2: and looks at me and just goes, we're going to
Speaker 2: the putting green. And this is like at nine point
Speaker 2: thirty at night, you know, you know, it's like over there,
Speaker 2: it's starting to get dark. And so we went to
Speaker 2: the putting green and it wasn't like it was you know,
Speaker 2: we need to fix, you know, but it's just wasn't
Speaker 2: quite right. We need to do some work. And you know,
Speaker 2: as a coach, it's like, okay, this is your time, right,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like so and yeah, yeah, that's right,
Speaker 2: you know, And you know, for me it was just
Speaker 2: you know, the stroke had got fraction short on its
Speaker 2: stroke length and sort of has had to over accelerate
Speaker 2: the putter a little bit, and just was about six
Speaker 2: inches under his speed all day, you know. So we
Speaker 2: just lengthened out the backstroke a touch, you know, got
Speaker 2: the putter head sort of crashing into the ball a
Speaker 2: little bit more, got the ball rolling a little bit,
Speaker 2: and you know, he said to me that night, he goes,
Speaker 2: I just need to feel it a little bit more
Speaker 2: into the back of the hole, don't I And I said, yep,
Speaker 2: perfect right, and then sort of reiterated that the next morning.
Speaker 2: It was just like but like I said, it was
Speaker 2: his focus, sort of calm, and you know, because under stress,
Speaker 2: you know, most people get shorter, they get shorter and
Speaker 2: quicker and obviously don't execute as well. So all we
Speaker 2: did was, like I said, lengthen out that backswen a
Speaker 2: little bit, got the flow of the putterhead, you know
Speaker 2: a little bit better, and you know, you know, the
Speaker 2: rest is history, so to speak.
Speaker 1: The up and down that he made on seventeen, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, it's one of the greatest up and downs
Speaker 1: in major championship history. I know you were out there
Speaker 1: walking around, talk me through what you're thinking in that
Speaker 1: moment as he's about to have to try and Okay,
Speaker 1: he's got to You're like, okay, he's got to get
Speaker 1: this thing up and down yep to have it. What
Speaker 1: what are you thinking as a coach, because I've been
Speaker 1: in that situation before, you know, where a player is
Speaker 1: trying to win a major championship and I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: struggling to breathe. I don't know why always say I
Speaker 1: have no idea how these guys do it, because the
Speaker 1: stress that I feel just watching for them to be
Speaker 1: able to camp. So what do you think in there?
Speaker 1: Are you thinking he's going to get this up and now?
Speaker 2: So I'll give you a bit of that. So we
Speaker 2: walked my son and I walked the front, well, the
Speaker 2: first ten holes right so you know those have been
Speaker 2: to Saint Andrews. There's a little loop down there towards
Speaker 2: the bottom end, and like it was just nuts, you know,
Speaker 2: And and Cam didn't Birdie nine, which was you know,
Speaker 2: one of your Birdie chants. I've been at that stage,
Speaker 2: you know you have to do and he was he
Speaker 2: was kind of still behind then and then when he
Speaker 2: didn't bertie that, it was like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 2: hope that's not our chance. Sort of lost and anyway,
Speaker 2: Bertie's ten, and I looked at my son and I said,
Speaker 2: what do you reckon? We do? Do we try and
Speaker 2: fight the crowds? What do we go back to the
Speaker 2: you know, the play of dining and watch it there.
Speaker 2: And as you know, that's about a three kilometer walk
Speaker 2: back to back to get there. So anyway, so him
Speaker 2: and I run back basically and by the time we
Speaker 2: get there birty to eleven, and he has had a
Speaker 2: little short one on twelve, which is a birdie chance
Speaker 2: and makes bertie on twelve. And then Rory doesn't birdie twelve,
Speaker 2: and then he birdie's thirteen on the back of that,
Speaker 2: which again is not another real birdie hole. And then
Speaker 2: when he birdied fourteen the par five, I looked at
Speaker 2: our sports side and I'm like, shit's get real here,
Speaker 2: Like you know this is this is actually always that.
Speaker 1: Moment where, unless they're leading, right when you work with
Speaker 1: the player and they're chasing, there's that moment to where
Speaker 1: as a coach you have that kind of you look
Speaker 1: and you start doing the math and you look at
Speaker 1: the holes that they've played. Maybe the leader didn't take
Speaker 1: advantage of it, and then all of a sudden you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: well we now have a he's got a legit chance
Speaker 1: with five holes left to win a Claire.
Speaker 2: Jock exactly right then chance. So then on sixteen, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the officials come and got our team and
Speaker 2: took us up behind the eighteenth green, you know, just
Speaker 2: obviously in case case he wins, and so we're sort
Speaker 2: of standing up there. So we're watching the put on
Speaker 2: seventeen from the back of the eighteen, which you can see,
Speaker 2: you yeah, know what's going on. You can see him,
Speaker 2: but you can't see the whole right, So obviously he
Speaker 2: hits the part and the next minute of the crowd
Speaker 2: sort of goes nuts, and you know, obviously it went
Speaker 2: in and then we are looking at each other going okay,
Speaker 2: this is really and then you know, hit a great
Speaker 2: drive up aideen you know, to hit it where he
Speaker 2: did and you know, to tupart from there like I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, would have been really easy for him to
Speaker 2: you know, hit something a bit shorten down the left
Speaker 2: and try and pitch it up and down, and but
Speaker 2: to hit the driver and to have the you know,
Speaker 2: the balls to basically you know, keep trying to make
Speaker 2: birdies you know when it cams things when he's in
Speaker 2: that moment, is he's just trying to keep making berties
Speaker 2: and if somebody's good enough to catch him, great, But
Speaker 2: he's you know, like we said earlier, he's trying to
Speaker 2: move forward, right So and then obviously, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that part that he actually hit on eighteen was
Speaker 2: just as good as the one on seventeen, you know,
Speaker 2: to put it up there to a couple of feet
Speaker 2: and you know, like you said, I'm standing there thinking
Speaker 2: I couldn't even hold it, you know, let alone you know,
Speaker 2: knock that in. So probably why he's the one doing
Speaker 2: and you and I are standing here talking on a podcast,
Speaker 2: right so, I think, you know, it was an amazing feeling.
Speaker 2: And then obviously watching Rory come down the last and
Speaker 2: you know, would have had to hold a webshot and
Speaker 2: obviously didn't, and you know, just to look around and think,
Speaker 2: you know, for me, it was such a surreal moment,
Speaker 2: like I'm standing on the back of the eighteenth green
Speaker 2: at St. Andrew's, you know, looking down as the crowd's
Speaker 2: coming up the fairway. You know, obviously you know it
Speaker 2: didn't work out for Rory, but you know, the player
Speaker 2: that I've coached since the age of ten, you know,
Speaker 2: is winning one hundred and fiftieth Open at St. Andrew,
Speaker 2: like shot thirty the back nine, Like he literally couldn't
Speaker 2: have written a better script. And you know, just had
Speaker 2: that moment where I'm just looking around thinking, if this
Speaker 2: is it for me, I'm good, you know, like I said,
Speaker 2: I hope he wins more. But if this is all
Speaker 2: it is, I can retire pretty happy on this one.
Speaker 1: He seems to be one of those players that gets
Speaker 1: to Augusta National. We just came from there, you know,
Speaker 1: didn't probably play the way he wanted to this year,
Speaker 1: but he has a comfort level at Augusta. What do
Speaker 1: you think it is about Augusta that Cam likes because
Speaker 1: you wouldn't obviously the putting is a huge asset on there.
Speaker 1: But he was never a player that everybody went I
Speaker 1: was games made for Augusta's name Guss and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, here's a couple of years where we're
Speaker 1: like for a gust Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think you know again, those big players they relish,
Speaker 2: you know that situation. I remember he played with Dustin
Speaker 2: so twenty eighteen, I think, and you know, they sort
Speaker 2: of went around the front nine just sort of lumbering
Speaker 2: a little bit, and Dustin was the number one player
Speaker 2: in the world at the time, and I remember, you know,
Speaker 2: them talking at Pinner talking about afterwards. He turned around
Speaker 2: to us and said, let's get moving, like you know,
Speaker 2: here he is, you know, still at that time, probably
Speaker 2: relatively not unknown, but you know, to you know, unless
Speaker 2: you're a goal for you didn't know who came. Swift
Speaker 2: was right, and you know he's telling the world number one,
Speaker 2: let's get moving, like, let's give this a shake, and
Speaker 2: he shoots thirty the back nine ends up running fifth.
Speaker 2: You had a part for twenty nine on the last,
Speaker 2: you know, like just when he gets in that moment.
Speaker 2: And so so that's one thing. The second thing that's
Speaker 2: massive for Cam is I think the creativity that Augusta asks,
Speaker 2: you know, it just really engages him and like, you know,
Speaker 2: he loves seeing where he's got to land and how
Speaker 2: it's going to feed that, and especially his short game.
Speaker 2: You know, I think his control over his flight and
Speaker 2: his spin and I might be biased, but is as
Speaker 2: good as anybody I've ever seen. And I think around there,
Speaker 2: if you do that, well, you know, you can control
Speaker 2: the ball, right. The guys that don't you know, you
Speaker 2: get shown up pretty quickly, so I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the creativity obviously, the putting on those greens is you know,
Speaker 2: is very difficult, but you know, also his stuff around
Speaker 2: the greens is really really important as well, So you know,
Speaker 2: I think that's you know, all those things is one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why he's you know, he's sort of
Speaker 2: built for that place.
Speaker 1: Well, given the type of player he is, in the
Speaker 1: type of game he has. It's going to sound weird,
Speaker 1: but I think Augusta allows Cam to play golf, which
Speaker 1: I think is a huge strength of this because you
Speaker 1: have to play the game. There is an ort to
Speaker 1: playing golf, absolutely, and I think everybody wants to be
Speaker 1: a tactician. I think Cam around us allows him to
Speaker 1: somewhat be an artist and kind of shape his way
Speaker 1: around that golf course and visually, I would imagine he
Speaker 1: likes that because that's the way he sees golf, regardless
Speaker 1: of whether he's out Augusta or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and it does. It engages him. And you know,
Speaker 2: so the more you know, like any player, the more
Speaker 2: focused thing they are and what they're doing, the better
Speaker 2: they're going to be But like you said, for Somewhere,
Speaker 2: like Cammy, he wants to be creative. He wants to
Speaker 2: hit different. You know. It's like he short game, the
Speaker 2: amount of times I'll see him at a shot, and
Speaker 2: I like, even nowadays, I'm like, I didn't see that,
Speaker 2: you know, Like, I mean, I've been around him forever
Speaker 2: and I know what he sees most of the time.
Speaker 2: But sometimes I'm like, man, you know that's next level, right.
Speaker 2: I had a guy over, Michael Nephews from Gears, you know,
Speaker 2: and he Michael was here this week, and you know,
Speaker 2: he got to watch and he said, I knew it
Speaker 2: was good because I'd seen it on TV, and he goes,
Speaker 2: but watching in the flesh, he goes, my god, that
Speaker 2: is something else. He goes like, just the quality of
Speaker 2: the strike, the way he controls his spin, all those things,
Speaker 2: and I think that's that creativity that comes to the
Speaker 2: full ran Somewhere Local Gusta.
Speaker 1: Obviously, cam was one of the guys that made the
Speaker 1: decision to go to Live. I'm sure that was a
Speaker 1: huge decision. I mean, I got three players currently playing
Speaker 1: on Live. But it was a massive decision for dj
Speaker 1: DJ after he won the Masters the COVID Masters. He
Speaker 1: didn't play good for two years, and I think he
Speaker 1: would admit and has kind of admitted. But those of
Speaker 1: us on his team knew that decision on should I
Speaker 1: go to Live, should I not go to live? It
Speaker 1: weighed on him for two years and it massively affected
Speaker 1: his golf once he made the decision. Obviously, the way
Speaker 1: DJ played on Live last year, I think he freed
Speaker 1: up and the decision that Cam made a lot of
Speaker 1: people scratched their heads. Why do you think he did it?
Speaker 1: And what conversations did you have with him? And what
Speaker 1: role that what I mean, did you say, Hey, these
Speaker 1: are the pros, the cons, this is what I think
Speaker 1: you should do. This is what top us through that
Speaker 1: whole decision.
Speaker 2: So I think, you know, he spoke to a number
Speaker 2: of people about it. I think, you know, let's not
Speaker 2: trugcate the fact that the money was a big driver
Speaker 2: for all of them, right, But besides that, you know,
Speaker 2: for Cam, I think the team atmosphere, you know. I remember,
Speaker 2: like when Cam was coming through as an amateur, you know,
Speaker 2: so we play a lot of inner state golf here
Speaker 2: in Australia. So and I remember once he got invited
Speaker 2: to there's a junior event, the top fifty juniors play
Speaker 2: Sage Valley.
Speaker 1: Yep, Sage Valuer Junior inportation, great tournament.
Speaker 2: Top fifty j Yeah, like great opportunity, right, Cam chose
Speaker 2: to play the Junior Interstate Series at Cabra Matta Golf Club.
Speaker 2: Now not knocking cabrat you know, but it's not Sage Valley, right, And.
Speaker 1: Every junior in the world's trying to play in Siege.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, and if you can qualify, Yeah, And he
Speaker 2: chose to play as the captain of that junior team
Speaker 2: for his state, right. And I think that team mentality
Speaker 2: is something like you know, if you have a little
Speaker 2: Presidence Cup, you know, World Cup with Mark, you know,
Speaker 2: like he loves that stuff, right. So I think the
Speaker 2: team atmosphere was a big thing. I think the schedule
Speaker 2: to be able to be home more was a big
Speaker 2: thing as well. And then you know the team ownership,
Speaker 2: you know, to be a part of something new and
Speaker 2: exciting that you know, like is a bit of a gamble,
Speaker 2: no question. But you know, I think if you look
Speaker 2: at what does this look like in ten years time,
Speaker 2: you know that that franchise model that you know, that
Speaker 2: f one sort of model. I think, you know, you're
Speaker 2: going on Okay, I think this is going to be
Speaker 2: amazing and I want to be a part of it.
Speaker 2: So there's there's a heap of pieces to that puzzle
Speaker 2: that made it, you know, the decision. You know, I
Speaker 2: think I get from a PJA and an American point
Speaker 2: of view, that's a much harder decision than an Aussies.
Speaker 2: You know, it really is, because you know, we you know,
Speaker 2: you talked about the tool. We used to have a
Speaker 2: tour here and unfortunately the back end of that used
Speaker 2: to be when all the players from America came.
Speaker 1: It was always November December, yep. So we used to
Speaker 1: have weather down here. The US guys could come if
Speaker 1: they wanted to.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, and then once the US sort of lengthened
Speaker 2: their schedule, that stopped all their guys coming home. So
Speaker 2: I think, you know, and that's why I think it's
Speaker 2: been so well received here, because we've just been starved
Speaker 2: of that golf that we used to get on a
Speaker 2: regular basis. So I think there was a number of
Speaker 2: things that I said that that made that decision for him.
Speaker 2: And look, you know now they couldn't be happier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think if you look at the set,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people that are critical of Live.
Speaker 1: I would say, in my opinion, maybe it'll change after
Speaker 1: the Masters, But pre Masters, the majority of the people
Speaker 1: that were anti Live have never come to a tournament.
Speaker 1: They've never been a part of the Live ecosystem as
Speaker 1: the players that you and I work with are. And
Speaker 1: we've all been a part of the PGA to our
Speaker 1: ecosystem for a number you know, I've been working with
Speaker 1: players on the PGA tour for twenty years. We know
Speaker 1: what that ecosystem's like, we know what that feels like.
Speaker 1: And I think the interesting thing is I tell people
Speaker 1: all the time that you know, the Live the strength
Speaker 1: for a lot of the guys on Live is that
Speaker 1: I don't think people that aren't a part of the
Speaker 1: the ecosystem don't understand the team concept. They think, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody showed up at Augusta and they had to. You know,
Speaker 1: the amount of questions Cam got in the press conference
Speaker 1: at Augusta about the fact that he was wearing team logos.
Speaker 1: I'm like, every player that comes to Augusta National is
Speaker 1: wearing a logo of something, whether they're on a Live team,
Speaker 1: or it's a corporate team that's paying them a clothing
Speaker 1: team effectively that is paying them a manufacturer. Everybody has
Speaker 1: that the team thing is huge. Do you think that
Speaker 1: Cam also looked at I've got an opportunity to play
Speaker 1: with good friends and people that I really really like
Speaker 1: and want to be around all the time, and it
Speaker 1: just makes my job. Well, I think it's been crazy
Speaker 1: when I say to people, everybody looks like they're having
Speaker 1: fun out on people? Are it? Guys look like you're
Speaker 1: having a lot of fun out there? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like every sport, every team sport there has a player
Speaker 1: that will say, listen, I want to go to that
Speaker 1: team because I grew up with guys on that team
Speaker 1: and I want to play for that team because that's
Speaker 1: where my boys are. And I just don't understand why golf.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants golf to not be like that.
Speaker 2: But I think there's a lot of things in that.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, like you talk about the fun aspect,
Speaker 2: like you know you're going to work for a long time, right, Like,
Speaker 2: why shouldn't it be fun? You know? And it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that the guys are not trying their bums off,
Speaker 2: you know, like I think people sort of think that
Speaker 2: if you're having fun, then you can't be being serious
Speaker 2: about your job. Those guys, I mean, for me, are
Speaker 2: working probably harder than they did when they're at on
Speaker 2: the PGA tour, right. And again for me, it's not
Speaker 2: even about the versus PGA tour. The e vect is
Speaker 2: like you said, Cam gets to spend and you know
Speaker 2: most of his traveling year with good mates, right, They're
Speaker 2: all playing for a common goal. They get, you know,
Speaker 2: like I said that, like you got like Jed, like
Speaker 2: he said, he gets to help bring Jed through onto tour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Cam has an unique opportunity as a
Speaker 1: twenty nine year old to take a kid like Jed
Speaker 1: Morgan and be a mentor to him. You know, you're
Speaker 1: trying to mentor kids. And we're not in our thirties, right,
Speaker 1: We're not in our early twenties. Right. You have an opportunity,
Speaker 1: as a twenty nine year old, as a major champion,
Speaker 1: as a players champion, to say to a young you
Speaker 1: know Australian players, hey, come on my team, yeah right,
Speaker 1: and I'll show you how to do.
Speaker 2: This exactly right, you know, and that's that's so unique.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you look at it like Mark and Matter
Speaker 2: a little bit older than Cam and they've been out
Speaker 2: on tour and you know, like I mean, asaid have
Speaker 2: got great relationships and especially Mark and Cam you know,
Speaker 2: pre the live stuff, you know, they were great mates.
Speaker 2: You know, so why not go? You know, like why
Speaker 2: not do it? And again I think it's about part
Speaker 2: you know, whilst, like a lot of things, at the start,
Speaker 2: people will want to find reasons why not to you know,
Speaker 2: I think the longer this is going on, you know,
Speaker 2: people just want to be involved. And if you look
Speaker 2: at like this week, you know, the amount of Ripper
Speaker 2: GC hats that are walking around, like I think it's amazing,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, that's what you know, like
Speaker 2: you said before the young kids start to buy into
Speaker 2: my son, you know, just bought a live jumper for
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five dollars or whatever it was,
Speaker 2: and like he's in you know, like he's looking at
Speaker 2: Cam going you know, I want to be on that team,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So and I'm sure you're experiencing this as well with
Speaker 1: the amount of young players that you work with, not
Speaker 1: only from a junior standpoint, but people trying to play
Speaker 1: in other professionals. What I don't think a lot of
Speaker 1: people realize now is I have high school kids, high
Speaker 1: school parents, college kids, college parents, and then kit players
Speaker 1: trying to play saying, listen, what's the pathway to play
Speaker 1: on lift? Because I don't think that people that aren't
Speaker 1: involved in it, they just see it, they say it's
Speaker 1: an exhibition. There are a peop well that they are
Speaker 1: coming to me now that are saying, listen, that would
Speaker 1: be where I would want to play. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: this week in Australia you'll start to see people now.
Speaker 1: And I say this all the time, Grant, I'm pro player.
Speaker 1: The reason why I want live to succeed is you
Speaker 1: and I work with professional athletes and professional golfers, and
Speaker 1: I think and believe professional golfers and professional athletes should
Speaker 1: have the exact same opportunities that every other athlete playing
Speaker 1: every other sport has to try and make as much
Speaker 1: money as possible based off of your talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think, And that's one of the things
Speaker 2: I found interesting. You know, like a lot of people
Speaker 2: sort of bag that everybody gets paid, right because in golf,
Speaker 2: you know, we've always had cuts. We've always had people
Speaker 2: that miss out. And you know, and I sort of
Speaker 2: say to people, it's like if you went to work
Speaker 2: one week, right, and you turned up at work and
Speaker 2: you did a pretty good job. Week's work, right, you
Speaker 2: paid for your hotel to be there, you'd bought somebody along,
Speaker 2: like you caddy and all this, and it's petially about
Speaker 2: five or six grand to be there, and you know,
Speaker 2: but the boss comes out and says, you know what,
Speaker 2: you were good this week, but you weren't good enough,
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to pay you. But come back
Speaker 2: next week and have another go, right, and if you're
Speaker 2: good and if you're good enough, we'll give you a
Speaker 2: little bit more, give you a little more, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, you can be a backup pitcher for
Speaker 2: the Dodgers and not picture a game and still get paid. Right.
Speaker 2: These guys, yep, they're paid entertainment, right, and they they
Speaker 2: should be paid, you know. And I think that's what
Speaker 2: we've got to change, that mindset that these guys deserve
Speaker 2: to be paid. They work hard, They spend a lot
Speaker 2: of money, a lot of time, a lot of effort
Speaker 2: to get to where they want to get to where
Speaker 2: they're trying to get to and you know they should
Speaker 2: be rewarded for that.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to j Or Smith. I had them on
Speaker 1: my podcast, but privately, j are you know two NBA championships.
Speaker 1: He was saying, we were talking about live happening, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I just don't get it because he's like,
Speaker 1: there's guys in the NBA that play four to five
Speaker 1: minutes a game and they're making twenty five million. And
Speaker 1: he said, and if the team makes the playoff, they
Speaker 1: never play, like they'll never play because they're they're just
Speaker 1: a position guy. The only time they would play is
Speaker 1: if somebody came in and you know, got hurt. The money. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Cam's one of the guys. He got the bag, he
Speaker 1: got life changing money. Have you noticed any change in him?
Speaker 2: Not one bit.
Speaker 1: But also the thing that everybody says is nobody's practicing.
Speaker 1: They've all got in the bag. They've all just taken
Speaker 1: their foot off the gas. They're not competitive. You noticed
Speaker 1: any difference. He did say that he came down probably
Speaker 1: for the first time in probably ten years, he was
Speaker 1: able to come down and have a proper three to
Speaker 1: four month off season hang with his boys, see the
Speaker 1: family and just be a normal human being.
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah. Look as far as his effort, no, like,
Speaker 2: he's as professional as ever and probably wants it more,
Speaker 2: you know, to show people that they are at that level.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the biggest thing I think
Speaker 2: at the moment for Cam is just, you know, is
Speaker 2: an adjustment in him being one of the team owners
Speaker 2: and the team captains and everything that goes with that.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's a lot more constraint on
Speaker 2: his time now, you know. I think there's a lot
Speaker 2: more expectation for him to do certain things, and I
Speaker 2: think that plays its part in performance, you know. But
Speaker 2: when it's golf time, he's all in. You know, he's
Speaker 2: still doing the work. He's he's not shirking anything, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Lastly, pro mullet anti mullet because obviously one of the
Speaker 1: great things about Live this week. There's a T shirt
Speaker 1: you can see it online. I'm social. It's kind of
Speaker 1: outline with the hair. I there's no way he can
Speaker 1: cut the hair now, right, I mean, there's just no
Speaker 1: way that he can get rid of.
Speaker 2: The mullet look. I think you know, it started as
Speaker 2: a joke, you know, and if you look back earlier.
Speaker 2: You know, he sort of said it at the time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: my mum hates it girlfriend, you know, but the boys
Speaker 2: love it, you know, And that's where it sort of started.
Speaker 2: And that sort of typifies Cam and I think, but now,
Speaker 2: you know, like, hey, he's played so good since he's
Speaker 2: had it, and then b you know, it's part of
Speaker 2: who he is. So I'd struggled to think that he's
Speaker 2: going to cut anytime soon. He did say at one stage,
Speaker 2: if I win a major, I'll cut it, and then
Speaker 2: as soon as that happened, he went, now, I'm not
Speaker 2: cutting that say, I can't see it going anywhere just yet.
Speaker 2: And you know, look like you know, just about every
Speaker 2: kid I coach, including my son, has had it a
Speaker 2: mullet at some stage in Australia.
Speaker 1: Australia with the mullet, because I've never been a place
Speaker 1: in I mean, I grew up I'm fifty four in
Speaker 1: a couple weeks. In a week I grew up in
Speaker 1: the eighties, every kid in my high school had a mullet, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was an old school thing. Then the
Speaker 1: mullet went away. What is it in OZ with the
Speaker 1: mullet and the cheesy mustache.
Speaker 2: Well, to be honest, you know, like again I'm not much,
Speaker 2: but I'm a huge younger than you, and we never
Speaker 2: had it early on, you know, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden it came back and it was actually a
Speaker 2: lot of the rugby league players started having it in
Speaker 2: Australia and then I said, Cam kind of did it
Speaker 2: as a joke. And then like now golfers have got it,
Speaker 2: and you know, like I'd coach you know, at least
Speaker 2: a dozen kids that have mullets, you know, and it's crazy,
Speaker 2: like everybody goes, oh to be coached by you, do
Speaker 2: you have to have a mullet? And you know, like yeah,
Speaker 2: so look I think it's you know, one of the
Speaker 2: things with Ozzie's is you know they're quite comfortable taking
Speaker 2: the you got to say the mickey out of each
Speaker 2: other and yeah, I said, we'd said taking the piece
Speaker 2: out of each other, you know. But yeah, so look,
Speaker 2: we don't take ourselves too seriously generally, and you know
Speaker 2: that's evident. Boy Kim's DOGI mustache and mullets. You know,
Speaker 2: I think it's here to say.
Speaker 1: Grant, I can't take thank you enough for talking to us.
Speaker 1: And when you work with a kid as a ten
Speaker 1: year old not you know what golfers are like, they're
Speaker 1: never gonna blame themselves and they'll switch coaches. The fact
Speaker 1: that Cam is is and not only that, the fact
Speaker 1: that Cam has kept you on his team and you're
Speaker 1: so much a part of his professional life and his
Speaker 1: personal life. But he's also done this now living in America,
Speaker 1: it's not like you see him on a regular basis.
Speaker 1: Now you've got to come to him. And the fact
Speaker 1: that he's kept you on his team through thick and thin,
Speaker 1: I think says a tremendous amount about him. But I
Speaker 1: also think it says a hell of a lot about
Speaker 1: you as a person, as a player, as a coach,
Speaker 1: and that player coach relationship, and it's it's really cool
Speaker 1: to watch, and I think you're doing a hell of
Speaker 1: a job with him and a lot of the other
Speaker 1: players you're you're working with. So thanks for taking time
Speaker 1: to talk to us. So that was grand Field and
Speaker 1: a really good pod. Lots and lots of stuff to
Speaker 1: take in there. And you know, you take a player
Speaker 1: from a ten year old and turn him into a
Speaker 1: major championship. I can't imagine what that must have meant
Speaker 1: to be at St. Andrew's for Grant and his team
Speaker 1: and the team around camp to see that happen and
Speaker 1: to get I've been lucky enough to be a part
Speaker 1: of that. And when you watch a player that you've
Speaker 1: worked with win a major championship, it's it's just an amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing feeling lived. Last week I was down in Australia,
Speaker 1: the Aussie fans, I just I just can't say enough
Speaker 1: about the way they came out. You can tell that
Speaker 1: it has been a long time since golf fans in
Speaker 1: Australia have seen that type of field, those type of players,
Speaker 1: and they showed up in full force. It was one
Speaker 1: of the coolest weeks that I've been a part of
Speaker 1: in my professional career, and just to see the enthusiasm
Speaker 1: it really was something really really cool. I know all
Speaker 1: the players felt it as well, and I think one
Speaker 1: of the winners last week, Yeah, I think Live made
Speaker 1: a step forward, if you like, But I think the
Speaker 1: big winners last week were the golf fans in Australia
Speaker 1: who got to see some really cool golf and it
Speaker 1: was a hell of a week and hopefully we'll get
Speaker 1: to get back down there again. Next year. Thanks everyone
Speaker 1: for listening. I know we took last week off. I've
Speaker 1: been on a pretty brutal travel schedule lately, but we've
Speaker 1: got some really good pods. I've got a lot of
Speaker 1: good stuff coming, and you guys are gonna have some
Speaker 1: good stuff to listen to in the coming weeks. Son
Speaker 1: of a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. We will
Speaker 1: see you next week.