1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Today, more than seventy years have passed. What happened can 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: never be forgotten. I know that and can never be changed. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: But over time I learned that I can choose how 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: to respond to the past. I can be miserable or 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: I can be hopeful. I can be depressed, or I 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: can be happy. We always have that choice, that opportunity 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: for control. I am here, this is now. I have 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: learned to tell myself over and over and over again 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: until panicky feeling begins to ease. 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 2: That was an excerpt from the book The Choice by 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: my guest today, Doctor Edith Eager. This is Sheep Habits 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: and I'm your host Emilitage Susman. In that short clip, 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: doctor Eager is talking about her experience surviving the whole 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: Cot and her long journey of healing the trauma she endured. 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: She is one of the few remaining survivors of perhaps 16 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: one of the most gruesome concentration camps Auschwitz. 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: Doctor is one of the dwindling number of survivors who 18 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 3: can bear first hand testimony to the horrors of the 19 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 3: concentration camps. Her book recounts the hell and trauma that 20 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: she and other survive is endured during and after the war, 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 3: and it is a universal message of hope and possibility 22 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: to all who are trying to free themselves from pain 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: and suffering. 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: Now at ninety five, doctor Eager's story spans decades and 25 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: contains so many incredible chapters. She's an accomplished mother, author, 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: and clinical psychologist. Her story is a deeply inspiring example 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: of what it means to pivot because of something personal. 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: After the trauma she endured, she realized that she needed 29 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: to face herself and face her emotions that had built 30 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: up over the years. So over twenty years after she 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,399 Speaker 2: left Auschwitz, doctor Eager decided to pursue a degree in psychology, 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: graduating at the age of forty nine. She then went 33 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: on to receive her PhD in clinical psychology at age 34 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: fifty one. She has used her own experiences to help 35 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: others heal in their traumas while telling her incredible life story. 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: Her story is incredibly complex, and although I'd love to 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: share it in its entirety, it's impossible in just one episode. Still, 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: it is so important to meet to preserve her story 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: and hopefully will lead you down a path of discovery, 40 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: especially given the fact that so many are attempting to 41 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: erase the Holocaust. The horrors Doctor Eager and millions of 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: others endured cannot be overstated. We are also releasing her 43 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: episode ahead of Russia Shaana, the Jewish New Year and celebration. 44 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: I hope this episode serves as a way to pass 45 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: along her story to future generations. Her story is truly 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: moving and I hope you enjoy it. She was born 47 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty seven in Slovakia and later moved to 48 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: Hungary with her family. Doctor Eager was the youngest with 49 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: her two older sisters, Clara and Magda. 50 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: I was a very lonely child because I had two 51 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: very talented sisters. 52 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: Clara played the violin concerto at just five years old 53 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: and Magda was a pianist. 54 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: Clara was a child prodigy in violin, and she was 55 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: the only Jewish girl accepted at the music academy in Budapeste. 56 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: That was a hard deck to follow. When she was 57 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: already in the camp, her professor World War name smuggled 58 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: her out and hit her until the end of the war, 59 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: and the way I found out that she was alive. 60 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: When we came from Vienna to Prague, I saw advertisements 61 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: with the violin that she's giving a concert. 62 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: When did you still feel like a child? Do you 63 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: remember what your childhood was like when you still felt 64 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: like a child. 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: I remember being a little adult rather than a child's child. 66 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: I don't remember really playing dolls too much. I did 67 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: have a doll. But most of all, I think I 68 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: was prepared to our Schwitz because I was able to 69 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: use some of the skills when I was alone. I 70 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: became cross eighted when I was three years old. 71 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: Here's how she writes about that experience in her book 72 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: The Choice. 73 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 4: Since the accident, I turned my head toward the ground 74 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 4: when I walk, so that I don't have to see 75 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 4: anyone looking at my lopsided face. I haven't yet learned 76 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 4: that the problem isn't that my sisters taunt me with 77 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 4: a mean song. The problem is that I believe them. 78 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 4: I am so convinced of my inferiority that I never 79 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 4: introduced myself by name. I never tell people I am Eadie. 80 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: Still, she found solace in her own art. She loved 81 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: to dance. 82 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: I studied to do ballet, and I was studying to 83 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: do acrobatics and gymnasts. I was going to be preparing 84 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: for the Olympics. 85 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: Actually, I understand that you try out for the Olympic 86 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: team when you were young. Can you tell us that story. 87 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: Well, my teacher came to me one day and told 88 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: me something that was the most difficult to hear, that 89 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: I do not qualify for the Olympics because I'm Jewish. 90 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: So I said to her, I'm not Jewish. And of 91 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: course it is a lie, because all you had to 92 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: do is go to the city hall when you're born, 93 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: and there is a line religion Jewish. My lining didn't 94 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: do me any good. I like to take you way back, 95 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: way back to nineteen forty three, when I am a 96 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: fifteen year old young girl. 97 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: Despite feeling lonely, Doctor Eager found a deep connection with 98 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: a young man. It was he who that she had 99 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: beautiful eyes and beautiful hands. Shortly before they were separated 100 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: and each taken to concentration camps. She held on to 101 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: the idea of him and the comfort of knowing that 102 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: he loved her throughout her time in Auschwitz. She found 103 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: out years after the war had ended, that he had 104 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: been killed in the camps. When she talks of him now, 105 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: it is clear that she kept him alive in her mind. 106 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: After all these years. 107 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was always a kind of hopeless romantic. 108 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: I had a boyfriend. Imre was his name in Hungarian, 109 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: Emre Fir Friedman was the last name. I didn't realize 110 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: that there was such a person as Imbre. I did 111 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: have a wonderful boyfriend who died. He was a kind 112 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: sudden junctra man. 113 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 4: They come in the dark. They pounded the door, they yelled. 114 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 4: Does my father let them in? Or do they force 115 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 4: their way into our apartment? Are they German soldiers or Nielush. 116 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: I can't make sense out of the noises that startled 117 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 4: me from sleep. My mouth still tastes of sadir wine. 118 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 4: The soldiers storm into the bedroom, announcing we are being 119 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: moved from our home and we settled somewhere else. We're 120 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 4: allowed one suitcase for all four of us. I can't 121 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 4: seem to find my legs to get off the cot 122 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 4: where I sleep at the foot of my parents' bed, 123 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 4: but my mother is instantly in motion. 124 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: Doctor Eager and her family are taken by cattle car, 125 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: not knowing the horrors that lie ahead of them. 126 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: We were toured that we're going to Hungary to work 127 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: wed They know that we're going to a place called Auschwitz. 128 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: Was here in this very moment where her mother left 129 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 2: her with a piece of advice, Doctor Eager has never forgotten. 130 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: My mother told me, and I caught. We don't know 131 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: where we're going, we don't know what's going to happen. 132 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: Just remember, no one can take away from you what 133 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: you put in your mind. And that is what was 134 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: ringing in my ear, and I considered it my duty 135 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: to do what I did. 136 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: It was that very conversation between doctor Eager and her 137 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: mother that inspired her to write her first book, The Choice, 138 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: and in fact, she has come back to those words 139 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: again and again throughout her life. It was a way 140 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: to keep hope alive through the hell of Auschwitz and 141 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: the source of healing. Over twenty years later, when she 142 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: began to process her traumas. 143 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: I felt so alone because I asked, our shreetz, does 144 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: anyone know that I'm here? 145 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: What was the answer? 146 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: The answer is that my curiosity was very helpful. My curiosity. 147 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to know what's going to happen next, and 148 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: next is a very good good word. And I said 149 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: to myself, if I survived today, then tomorrow I'll be 150 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: free tomorrow was a very important one in my vocabulary. 151 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: In our shots, did you give yourself a timeline to 152 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: think about how soon tomorrow would be? Or it was 153 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: always just the thing that kept you going. 154 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: It was really one day at a time. Because there 155 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: was another girl there from Yugoslavia, and she loved her country, 156 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: and I loved my country. And I've talked about hunger 157 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: or the wonderful they based Hungarian sleeve and eat. And 158 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: she told me that we'll be liberated by Christmas. And 159 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: Christmas came and went, and the following day she died. 160 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: Do I think she was my best teacher, telling me 161 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: not to set any dates because we don't know what's 162 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: going to happen next. 163 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: No one could have expected or known the horrors of Auschwitz, 164 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: and from the moment she arrived, they did not end. 165 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: The human imagination still struggles to comprehend what was done 166 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: here Auschwitz, where humanity comes face to face with its 167 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: ultimate capacity for evil. 168 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: One point one million people died here, more than the 169 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: total of British and American losses in the whole of 170 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 3: the Second World War. 171 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 5: They took us through the scamp, the little barracks, smelly 172 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 5: with bricks, no windows of us six seven, eight to 173 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 5: ten people sleeping one door, filty. 174 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: Blanks, guns pointing down. 175 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 5: And the wires was so high. And they said in 176 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 5: German arbit Machfried work make the life free. 177 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: Auschwitz was hell. Ashwitz really was hell. I didn't talk 178 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: enough about doctor Mangelen. We had to separate everybody over forty, 179 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: everybody under fourteen, and they are automatically bent to the 180 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: gaest jam. And that's all I would like to tell, 181 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: because then I begin to cry, and I don't think 182 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: you ready for that. And I just want to tell 183 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: you that being alive or ninety five, it's a miracle 184 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: to me. I appreciate every moment. 185 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 2: So she's not able to tell us the story I 186 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: wanted to hear in her own words. Hears some excerpts 187 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: from her book The Choice about her frankly unbelievable interaction 188 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: with doctor Joseph Mengela. 189 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 4: Doctor Mengela, we learn he is a refined killer and 190 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 4: a lover of the arts. He trawls among the barracks 191 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 4: in the evenings, searching for talented inmates to entertain him. 192 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 4: He walks in tonight with his entourage of assistants and 193 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 4: casts his gaze like a net over the new arrivals, 194 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: with our baggy dresses and our hastily shorn hair. We 195 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 4: stand still, back to the wooden bunks that edge the room. 196 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 4: He examines us. Magda ever so subtly, grazes my hand 197 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: with hers. Doctor Mengela barks out the question, and before 198 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 4: I know what's happening, the girls standing nearest me, who 199 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: know I trained as a ballerina and gymnast back in Casa, 200 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 4: push me forward, closer to the angel of death. He 201 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 4: studies me. I don't know where to put my eyes. 202 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 4: I stared straight ahead at the open door. Little dancer, 203 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 4: Doctor Mangeleis says, dance for me. If I miss a step, 204 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 4: if I do anything to displease him, it could be me. 205 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: I dance. I dance. 206 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 4: I am dancing in hell. I can't bear to see 207 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 4: the executioner as he decides our fates. 208 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: I close my eyes. 209 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 4: I focus on my routine, on my years of training. 210 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: Auschwitz was unrelenting, but she held tight to what her 211 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: mother had told her that day in the cattle car. 212 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: She had the strength of her mind. It wasn't until 213 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: December of nineteen forty four, six months after she entered 214 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: that she left Auschwitz, but she was still far from free. 215 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: We were put on a tree so we can carry 216 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: ammunitions for the Nazis. 217 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: Still, despite her, her sister Magda and so many others 218 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: being atop the train, the British still bombs the train. 219 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: In the chaos of it all, Doctor Eager and her 220 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: sister managed to survive, but still they were not free, 221 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: and her and her sister struggled to stay alive continued. 222 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: It wasn't until May fourth, nineteen forty five, when a 223 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: young American soldier noticed her hand moving slightly amongst a 224 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: number of dead bodies that she was saved from the 225 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: brink of death. 226 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: You go up step, all I see is dead body 227 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: is sent and I say to myself, here I'm going 228 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: to die. And I survived the death watch, which was 229 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: from mytelzan to go and skirhad as the Americans came 230 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: and the Russians veryd evacuated. And that's how I ended 231 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: up in Mile thousand, Austria, people going through the gate 232 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: and coming back. I remember that clearly how freedom was there. 233 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: And then we didn't know what to do with her freedom. 234 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: After the war, Doctor Eager moved to Czechoslovakia, where she 235 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: met Bella, the man she would marry. She lived a 236 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: lifetime in just those few years between the war ending 237 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: and moving to the United States. In nineteen forty nine, 238 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: she had her first child, Marianne, who was severely sick 239 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: and she had to go to great lengths to get medicine. 240 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: Under communist rule. Bella was later arrested and doctor Eager 241 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: helped him escape from prison. Feeling the pressures of Communist rule, 242 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: they immigrated, but not without great difficulty long sense of guilt. 243 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: I smuggled my husband out and that's how we came 244 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: to America. 245 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: Penis, When you thought about coming to the US, When 246 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: you thought about coming to America, what did you know 247 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: about America at that time? What were you thinking about 248 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: that you could achieve by being in the US. 249 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: Even before coming to America, I was told at that 250 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: there is going to be democracy waiting for me. There 251 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: was no democracy, so I joined the Women of Color. 252 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: I ended up with Martin Luther King, and I remember 253 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: the harglso but I remember that in America people were 254 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: practicing prejudice, the. 255 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 4: Most ridiculous thing that has ever happened. 256 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 5: And just as for you, as we are. 257 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: We have the same opportunity to. 258 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: Power, but the social position. 259 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: You know. 260 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 4: Look, I know what you have to man, it's so 261 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: to you. 262 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: Look, I mean, if you really want me to say it, 263 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: I will. 264 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: It's prejudice, That's what it is. We are not about 265 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: to turn around. 266 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, we own the move now, Yes sir, Yes 267 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 3: we own the move in no way. 268 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: But racism can stop us, yes, sir. 269 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: The prejudice followed doctor Eager to America with an encounter 270 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: with the patient who is part of the David Koresh movement. 271 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: It was the US and them mentality. And then actually 272 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: had a white Supreme Mescy person in my office who 273 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: was a member of the David Korash in Texas, and 274 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: he told me the first thing he will do is 275 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: kill all the Jews. 276 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: Did that remind you of prejudice that you had seen? 277 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: Yes. I don't know the word happy. I don't know 278 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: who is happy. I'm cheerful as well as I can. 279 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: Do you think that other people feel happiness that you can't. 280 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: I think I like to be a compassionate listener. I 281 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: like to listen and repeat what I hear, so I 282 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: know that we are on the same page. So when 283 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: Jesus said turned the other cheek, I think it has 284 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: to do with me looking at the situation from a 285 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: different perspective. Do other people feel happinesssets, I don't know. 286 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: I usually took about that. I went to have steak 287 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: at Ruth Steakhouse and I noticed that I was walking 288 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: on cobblestones. It triggered that time when children were spitting 289 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: at us as we were walking through Germany and called 290 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: us dogs and many bad words, and I felt so 291 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: sorry for the children that they were taught to hate me. 292 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: Despite her optimism, it took years for doctor Eager to 293 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 2: fully process her trauma, she wrote in an essay in 294 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: the Atlantic. For decades, I never spoke of the death camps, 295 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: never told anyone, including my children, especially my children, that 296 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 2: I was a survivor. But it was her daughter, Marianne, 297 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: who had gone on to become a child psychologist, who 298 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: inspired her to pursue psychology at the University of Texas 299 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 2: al Paso. 300 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: I was forty. My supervisor told me to go get 301 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: a PhD. And I looked at him and I said, 302 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: by the time I get a PhD, i'll be fifty. 303 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: And he said, you'll be fifty anyway, and I think 304 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: that's the best thing. You know, the chronological age is 305 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: going to happen. It's what you do with it, not 306 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: what happens. 307 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: That is incredible advice. I feel like a lot of 308 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: people who listen to this show aren't fifty yet and 309 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: are still feeling like the first part of how they 310 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: plan their life to go. You know, maybe it's the 311 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: career path they went on, maybe it's the way they 312 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 2: thought their family was going to look is kind of 313 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: sunsetting and they're not sure, like they have enough time, 314 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: I guess to rethink it. But that's an incredible perspective 315 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 2: to me. 316 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: Every moment is precious and we don't seem to appreciate 317 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: what we have until we lose it. So freedom is 318 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: a big word, and the second effort is freedom from 319 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: the prison that we put in our minds. And the 320 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: key is in your pocket. 321 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: During our interview, doctor Eager recalled a specific moment where 322 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: the grief, guilt, sorrow and everything in between that she 323 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: had repressed for so many years bubbled to the surface. 324 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: So I remember that my granddaughter asked me to buy 325 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: her a pretty dress so she could go to the dance, 326 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: and I did that, and I came home out of 327 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: the blue. I was crying and I didn't understand what 328 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: is going on with me. But then I came to 329 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: the realization that I didn't cry because I bowed a 330 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 1: beautiful dress for my granddaughter. There. I cried because I 331 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: never went to a dance. So I think that's very 332 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: important that it's okay to grieve and feel and heal. 333 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: You can't heal what you don't feel. The opposite of 334 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: depression is expression. What comes out of your body will 335 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: not make you ill. What sticks in there does. 336 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 2: A trained clinical psychologist, she's still practicing at the age 337 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: of ninety five and helping her patients heal through their 338 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: traumatic experiences. 339 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't treat people as they are. I treat them 340 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: as if they were, but they are capable of becoming. 341 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: So I don't treat the bomb like a bomb. I 342 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: treat them as a wonderful, knowledgeable human being and they 343 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: rise to the occasion. We have the body, we have 344 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: the blood that we cannot change. We have the environment. 345 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: But I like the third how you respawn to the 346 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: other two Because what comes out to eybody doesn't make 347 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: you ill. What stays in there, So share your secrets. 348 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: I do the talking that brings out feelings and people 349 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: that you cannot talk about it or medicate it, but 350 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: to feel the feelings. There's a lot of crying, which 351 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: is very healthy because what comes out of your body 352 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make you ill. What stays in there does. And 353 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: I think that's very important to share your feelings. 354 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: Doctor Eager makes her patients face themselves to truly feel, 355 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 2: to walk through the pain, the suffering, so they can 356 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: get to the other side. This is the exact exercise 357 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: that she did with herself at the age of sixty 358 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: three when she returned to Auschwitz to as she says, 359 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 2: look the lion in the face. 360 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: I went to school, I went to school. I went 361 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: to school and made me realize that I cannot take 362 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: them further than I have gone myself. And that's when 363 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: I decided to go back to Auschwitz. Look at the 364 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: lion in her face. 365 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember what you felt when you went back. 366 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: I cried a lot. Cried because I missed my mother. 367 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: I missed the time that I could talk to my 368 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: mother as two women, two mothers. I never forget what happened. 369 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: I will never overcome, but I came to terms for that, 370 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: I call it my cherished wound, because part of me 371 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: was left in Armstrad, but not the better part, not 372 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: the bigger part. 373 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: I've read in your book that part of why you hadn't, 374 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: or I guess a big part of why you hadn't 375 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: shared about your experience with your children for many, many years, 376 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: is that you wanted to protect them. It sounds like 377 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 2: you might have a different perspective now. 378 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: Well. At the time, I did what I thought to 379 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: be a Yankee Dudo dandy and not to talk to 380 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: my children about the past. Today I would think very differently. 381 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: But I'm sure that my children forgave me that. At 382 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: the time, I did the best I knew how to do. 383 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: Every day information that I had, I certainly would change. 384 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: It today again, she wrote in The Atlantic, I thought 385 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 2: my silence about the past would be a buffer for 386 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: my children. Yet in hiding from the past, I wasn't 387 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: free of it. You had spent many years after you 388 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 2: came to the US not talking about the fact that 389 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: you were a survivor. What changed that for you? 390 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: I had my secret, and then the secret had me. 391 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: So when I had two paraplegics and one of them 392 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: was in a federal position. Blaming, blaming, blaming, you name it, 393 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: you blame people, God, country. Conversely, the other one said 394 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: to me, you know, hey, doc, and I was wearing 395 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: a white coat. It's a doctor eager Department of Psychiatry. 396 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: He said to me, hete God, God gave me a 397 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: second chance in life. And I'm in a wheelchair. That 398 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: means I can reach for much children, much closer. I 399 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: can reach for the flowers. And I felt like the 400 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: biggest impostor because here I was with two paraplegics and 401 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't take them further than I have gone myself. 402 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: So I want to thank those two wonderful gis who 403 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: guided me to go back to Alfred. And that's the 404 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: work I do today. Visit the places where you were, 405 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: you relieve that experience, and then you revise your life. 406 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: How do you manage withholding judgment as you're listening to patients, 407 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: to people talking to you when something that we really 408 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: be affecting them seems kind of minor compared to what 409 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: you've been through. 410 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: I think it's recognized board that suffering makes you stronger. 411 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: We can use the bad and turn it into good, 412 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: so it's not comparable suffering as part of life. At 413 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: ninety five, I'm very very much thinking before I say anything, 414 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: is it important? Is it necessary? And most of all, 415 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: is it kind? I think we can empower each other 416 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: with our differences, that you can be you and I 417 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: can be my me, but together we're going to be 418 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: much stronger. And that I learned in our shreds that 419 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: all we had was each other there, and all we 420 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: have is each other. 421 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: Now, considering that you really hadn't shared for so many years, 422 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: how do you feel about sharing your story with us now? 423 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: Anything that comes out of my body? I feel that 424 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: I owe it to my mom. They let people know 425 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: what happens when good people do bad things. Just looking 426 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: for the light wherever I am. It's called faith, not believe. 427 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: People say believe believe. I have faith that people are 428 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: basically good. And I learned that from and Frank. She said, 429 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: as I look outside people are fighting and killing, I 430 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: still believe. She said that people are basically good. I 431 00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: certainly joined her that we're not born evil, We're not 432 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: borned to it hate. We're born with love and joy 433 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: and most of all, passion for life. 434 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: What legacy do you think you're leaving behind? 435 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: That everything in life is temporary. There is no guarantee, 436 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: there is no certain tea, but there is probability. And 437 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: that's what I developed in our shreds, that I could 438 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: put me in a gash chamber any minute. I had 439 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: no control over that, but I could never ever ever 440 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: own my spirit. And that's what I bring you today. 441 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. It has been 442 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: such an honor and a pleasure to have you. 443 00:31:54,480 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: You're a great interviewer. I love you, dimples continuing so 444 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: wonderful work that you do. I'm at you. 445 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: Doctor Eager lives in California, where she has her clinical 446 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: practice and holds a faculty appointment at the University of California, 447 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 2: San Diego. She is a prolific speaker who has appeared 448 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 2: on numerous television programs, including CNN and The Oprah Winfrey Show. 449 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: She continues to use her story to spread a message 450 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: of perseverance, courage, and compassion. She is the author of 451 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: two New York Times bestsellers, The Choice and The Gift, 452 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: both of which you can find wherever you get books. 453 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: Happy Russiashana Lashanatova, thanks for listening to this episode of 454 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: She Pivots, where I talk with women about how their 455 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: experiences and significant personal events led to their pivot and 456 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: eventually their success. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 457 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: at she Pivots the podcast and leave a rating in 458 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn 459 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: about it. A special thank you to our partner Marie 460 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: Clare and the team that made this episode possible. Talk 461 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 2: to you next week. Audio excerpts courtesy of Simon and Schuster. 462 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: Audio read by Tovah Felsche from the audiobook The Choice 463 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: by Doctor Edith Eager, published by Simon and Schuster Audio, 464 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: a division of Simon and Schuster, Inc. Were used with 465 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: permission from Simon and Schuster. She Pivots is hosted by 466 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: me Emily Tish Sussman, produced by Emily eda Veloshik, with 467 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 2: sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollock, and research and 468 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: planning from Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins. 469 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 5: I endorse Che Pivots