WEBVTT - 8 - Crazy Like a Fox 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.600 You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.040 production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.239 In the criminal justice system, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.680 to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.600 and prosecute these cases are part of a select group 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:31.800 that has defined American history. These are their stories. Wednesday, 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.800 August twenty eighth, nineteen ninety six, Federal District Court, Brooklyn. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.959 After six years of protracted legal battles, Vincent the Ciniganti, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.760 the boss of the Genevese crime family, was declared mentally 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.760 competent to stand trial. His decades long odd Father act 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.559 deemed an elaborate deception. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.560 Vinnie the Cinigante is sane enough to stand trial. That's 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.440 what a federal judge decided. The alleged mob boss will 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.600 face charge of murder and racketeering. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.640 The judge ruled that Giganty's public display of bizarre behavior 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.200 was all part of a campaign of quote persistent malingering, 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.600 and that, with the help of relatives, he had feigned 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.959 mental illness for over twenty years as a means to 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:17.959 elude prosecution. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.800 For years, his lawyers have been saying he's insane, that 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.160 all he does is walk around outside in a bathrobe. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.039 He must now appear in court next week. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.440 In the ten years since the Commission trial, Giganty had 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.360 been the only New York mob boss to escape imprisonment. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.000 But after this dramatic nineteen ninety six competency hearing, the 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:39.480 tables were starting to turn. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:44.120 The government's witnesses, cops and agents would document the movements 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.320 of a saying, at least according to them, Vincent Giganty. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.200 You're not with the mob because you want to be. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.280 It's the gangster that decides whether y're his associated with. 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.280 If you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.280 I'm Aniseega Nicolazzi. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.960 My father should have been a dead man. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:15.040 From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This is law and 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:24.040 order criminal justice system. In the years following the Commission trial, 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.920 Vincent Gigante had reached an almost mythical status among the 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.840 Five families. For most Gene's mobsters, it would have been 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.120 extremely rare to catch a glimpse of their reclusive boss, 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.680 let alone speak with him, unless, that is, you are 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:43.079 responsible for engineering something new, something that would generate millions 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.080 of dollars. That kind of juice could earn you a 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:51.520 seat at the table. Taking advantage of a government subsidy program. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.920 A savvy Genovi's associate by the name of Pete Savino, 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:01.280 had developed a scheme involving windows. Savino rig bids for 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:07.399 the installation and replacement of windows throughout the city houses, buildings, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:12.520 low rises, even skyscrapers. Much like the concrete racket. It 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:17.040 wasn't sexy, but it was extremely profitable and for the 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:22.120 next decade, netted the four participating families hundreds of millions 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:22.760 of dollars. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.560 The government claims that since nineteen seventy eight, the mob's 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.400 control of the bidding, manufacture, and installation of replacement windows 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.080 resulted in the mafia getting three fourths of the one 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.280 hundred and ninety one million dollar replacement window business in 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:37.600 city housing projects. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.680 Savino had become a money making machine for the Genevies, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.080 and his reward was something rare, indeed, the confidence of 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.400 the boss. He was granted the privilege of meeting with 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.360 Gigante dozens of times over the years, eating dinner together, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.560 meeting his family, even gaining access to Gigante's exclusive village hangout, 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.000 the Triangle Club on Si Sulli Street. A rare feat 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:06.200 from your associate, But as Jim Kostler points out, that 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.800 privilege also came with its fair share of risk, and 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.080 nothing could be more frightening than answering a late night 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:14.320 summons from the boss. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.280 He got a phone call in the middle of the night, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.520 two or three in the morning from Gigante's right hand 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.880 man telling him come to Sullivan Street right now, get 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.040 over here, right now. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.919 So Vino had no choice but to obey. Given Gigante's reputation, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.640 this might be a one way trip. 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.000 Told his wife, I guess I'll never see you again. 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.479 This is it. He's called me to come over. I'd 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.720 probably be dead by morning. We haf to two. If 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.919 you're told, if you join that your life is in 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.039 the hands of the mob. But he did what he 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.839 was told, and he came over to Sullivan Street and 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.040 walked into the club. Gigante was sitting at the table, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.160 and he goes over and Gigante takes out this catalog 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.360 and he says, see if you can get me three 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.880 pair of these sweatsuits, Oh my gosh. And he says, okay, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.800 how get him? And he left and that's the kuy 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.480 The guy. He was scared his own people to death. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.240 The fear he instilled in even his own men, including 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.839 favorites like Pete Savino, was critical to his unrivaled control. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:24.960 Here's his daughter read it. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:30.120 Giganty, Vito Genovies and some of the others. They were 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.960 ruthless and they would kill someone at the drop of 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.880 a hat. My father was not that way, but he 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.680 was very strict on There was a servant code and 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.920 you had to follow the code, and if he didn't 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.760 follow the code, there were consequences, which is why. 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.680 When Paul Castellano was killed in front of Spark Steakhouse 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.680 without commission approval, Giganty swore revenge against the men behind it, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.440 namely John Gotti, and while Gotti was able to escape retribution, 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.240 his co conspirators were not so lucky. In other words, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.680 Vincent Giganti was not a man you wanted to cross. Ever, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.960 to even think about cooperating with law enforcement meant risking 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.520 your life and possibly that of your families. But in 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.400 nineteen eighty seven, that is exactly the dilemma Pete Savino 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.119 found himself in after the FBI connected him to six 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:27.520 drug related murders. Savino was given a simple ultimatum, agree 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.599 to cooperate or you're going to jail. Here's former FBI 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.960 agent might camp be Pete. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.200 Savino became a cooperating witness on the Windows case, so 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.479 he was making recordings with regard to that whole window 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:47.080 installation generated millions and millions of dollars for all families. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.000 Once the up and coming favorite of the Genevese Boss, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.359 Savino was now his biggest threat and if caught, it 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.400 would likely cost him his life, but incredibly, wearing a 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.200 wire was a risk he was willing to take, though 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.960 there were some within the family who suspected that Savino 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.160 had flipped. As Mike can't be discovered in a bugged 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.080 conversation with a Genevie soldier. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.280 He was forewarned that Savino was a rat, and he 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.800 was trying to warn others to stay away from him, 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.920 but others, because of the money being generated in that industry, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:23.200 they ignored it. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.600 Savino's Windows racket was a winner, and each of the 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.840 families had reason to protect it. But the real reason 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:35.320 Savino was still alive was simple. He was Giganti's guide, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.480 and the Boss refused to believe he had been betrayed. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.000 He trusted a man that he shouldn't have trusted, and 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:43.760 everybody told him, but he didn't listen. 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.040 In May of nineteen ninety, thanks in large part are 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.040 recorded conversations collected by Savino, fifteen mafia members from four 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.360 families were indicted on a Rico enterprise charge. Giganti was 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:03.160 arrested in his bathroom at his mother's apartment. Facing a trial, 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.960 it was time to see if Gigante's elaborate Insanity Act 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.040 would allow him to escape punishment for his crimes. Here's 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:12.640 prosecutor Andrew Weisman. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.800 He had been indicted, but he had been severed from 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.920 the case because there was this issue about whether he 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.600 was competent to go to trial. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.880 Gigante's lawyers were quick to submit psychiatric evaluations, deeming Giganty 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.480 to be mentally unfit to stand trial. While the court 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.320 considered it's ruling on his sanity, Giganty was released on bond. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.080 He returned to Greenwich Village and to his bathrobe to 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.720 run the wealthiest crime family in America. 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.920 And so this whole case just sort of languished. He 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.520 was out on bail, and the case just sat there 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.839 with the idea that he was incompetent and couldn't go 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:52.400 to trial. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.280 It was clear that Gigante's long con had worked. He 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.640 had designed a sanity stalemate that would last decades. But 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.640 other secrets could not be kept as long, and exposing 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:20.120 them would ultimately prove to be his downfall. In the 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:25.400 relentless investigation into Genevi's boss, Vincent Gigante, the FBI left 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.680 nostone unturned, but they weren't the only ones uncovering family 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.319 secrets about his double life. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.560 He did have another family, well, he had two other families. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.199 He had the street family, and then he also had 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.120 another family that was living uptown. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.120 Rita would learn all about her father's infidelity when she 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.559 was a teen. Despite all she knew about her dad, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.079 it was this betrayal that was the most shocking and 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:52.120 most painful. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.120 The name of the woman is the same name as 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.240 my mother, which is unheard of because it's not a 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.320 common name, not at all. It's so bizarre. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.400 Vincent Giganty had a wife named Olympia in New Jersey. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.040 He also had a girlfriend who you can't make this up, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:12.239 was named Olympia. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.240 Coincidence maybe, But when it came to the odd father 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.080 people were convinced that the Genevese boss left nothing to chance. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.000 Here's former prosecutor, Guilt Childers. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.360 I thought that was the biggest piece of information that 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.640 showed he wasn't nuts. He was very smart. He couldn't 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.559 get the name wrong no matter which woman he was with. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.719 His mistress was on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.360 who he would spend more time with than actually his 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:39.200 wife generally. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.680 According to Rita, Giganti's betrayal took a very heavy toll 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:45.839 on her mom. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.640 My mom also experienced a lot of depression and anxiety. 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.120 They put her on valume at age thirty seven because 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.840 of the anxiety attacks that she was having because she 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:56.600 felt ashamed. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.280 In addition to Olympia's five children, the other Olympia, Borgia Gante, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.200 two daughters and a son, Rita's mother had known about 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.200 his second family for years, and along with as many 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.880 other lies and crimes, she bore the burden of the 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.960 secret until one day when she finally couldn't hold it 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.040 in any longer and confided in her youngest daughter. 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.120 I was like, no way, I just did not see 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.360 my father as this guy. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.800 I don't know why it runs in that whole gamut 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.840 of the world that he ran in, and yet I 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:32.440 did not see him as this man. 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.480 I just looked at her, like, what are we doing here? 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.760 Why are you still doing this? Like get out, you know, 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:39.440 like leave. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.840 And I think the most she lasted was maybe three weeks, 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.960 and then she softened and missed him and went back 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.920 to it. And I had to come to the realization 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.720 that this is who she was. I had to accept that, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:55.120 and eventually I just stopped trying to help or make 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.600 her see things a certain way, because I knew she 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:58.839 was never walking away. 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:04.360 For years, the FBI's Genov squad had been trying to 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.000 keep taps on the Boss, but tailing him was no 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:13.040 easy feat. Every night, his chauffeur engaged in dangerous street 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.880 racing tactics, weaving his Cadillac through one way streets the 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.920 wrong way, ignoring speed limits, and blowing through red lights. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.520 But he had one routine that was regular as clockwork, 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.120 his visits uptown to the other Olympia. Eventually, the squad 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.839 managed to follow him to the townhouse, and what they 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.839 witnessed would prove to be the first chink in the 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:35.679 Boss's armor. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.520 Jigante was observed walking or being driven to his usual 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.959 neighborhood haunts, the Triangle Club on Sullivan Street or the 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.199 Upper east Side townhouse of his longtime girlfriend Olympia Esposito. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.720 The surveillances would have him walking around the streets in 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.640 his bathrobe doing all these crazy things, and then around 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.560 eleven o'clock or midnight, he'd come out of the residence, 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.000 not dressed in a bathrobe, but dressed in clothes, sometimes 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.640 stepping out clothes and going up to his mistress and 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.520 doing other things, acting like a normal person, I suppose 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.040 to his daytime stick. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.920 When Gigante was uptown, the enigma in a bathrobe would 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.640 drop the act and put on a whole new persona. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.160 The cop testify that Giganti walked on assisted had numerous 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.719 conversations contradicting the claim that Giganti is a paranoid schizophrenic 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.160 who needs constant attention. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.800 For the FBI, it was proof that Giganti was not 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.840 just a liar or a philanderer, but that he was 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.280 more than capable of standing trial and answering to his 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.720 many crimes. For his daughter Rita. The revelations about his 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.120 secret family proved to be a tipping point in her 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.760 own life. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.160 I started to realize at a certain age that I 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.160 didn't believe all the things they were telling me about family, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.040 about the Catholic religion and. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:58.320 All of that. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.920 In the midst her family chaos, Rita turned inward and 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.440 revealed a secret of her own. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.520 I knew at a very young age that I was gay, 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.040 and I also knew I couldn't speak to anybody about it, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.160 although they all knew, but nobody wanted to talk about it, 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.080 and I was too afraid to come and talk about it. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.720 So the more I didn't talk about my own truth, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.040 the more sick I got. It's like, you either sacrifice 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.240 yourself for the family and not have a life, or 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.000 you make changes and you create a life for yourself. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.560 And physically, my body was always telling me something's got 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:36.000 to change. At nineteen, I'm realizing there's so many secrets. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.560 That went on in this family. I don't want to 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:38.680 carry any secrets. 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.600 It's not who I am. So I was like, Okay, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.720 I'm going to do it. I'm going to just tell them. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.160 Rito was terrified, but she knew it was time. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.760 My father was visiting New Jersey at the time, and 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.880 I'm a wreck I'm shaking, my hands are sweating, you know, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.240 my whole body's like forget it. But I knocked on 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:58.760 the door and I said, can I come in? I 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.560 really want to talk. They sat me down and they said, 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:02.120 what is it. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:03.760 You look upset? What's going on? 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.240 Very simply, I said, I like women, I says, I've 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.280 always felt this connection. I said, and I really wanted 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:13.080 to just tell you. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.600 And all of a sudden, I saw their faces. 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.520 Right, it was like disbelief that I was actually saying it. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.640 My mother, especially because I said it in front of 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.120 my father. I don't think she ever thought I would 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:25.960 have the bulls to do it. And I was like, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:30.080 oh shit, oh god, if I could just pull the 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.440 good words back of my mouth and not said anything. 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:38.400 After an excruciating silence, Rita looked to her mother for support, 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:39.400 but none came. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.440 She just looked at him, and all of a sudden, 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.440 this calm came over him. I knew I was finished 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.680 after this, and he said to me, you know what, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.560 all kids your age go through this. It's okay, You're 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.400 just experimenting. I shut down after that because I knew 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.760 he could not accept it. The minute he finished the 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.840 first line I just shut down and said, you know what, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.320 You're right, I'm just going through something. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:09.800 I said, thank you. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.640 I got up and I walked out and I just 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.640 went into my room assopped because I couldn't follow through. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.000 In Vincent Gigante's world, there was just no place for 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.400 the truth. Survival had meant a lifetime of deception, but 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.720 his house of cards was about to come crashing down, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.960 and my Campy was poised to knock the foundation right 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.359 out from under him. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.840 My focus was like, Okay, who's the next power base? 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.520 And if chin gets wrapped up in my case because 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.280 somebody wants to cooperate, I'll deal with it. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.320 Then Campy and his fellow FEDS took aim at some 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.280 of Gigante's underlings, a roster of kappos and underbosses. 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.320 My pursuit was the acting administration. Jimmy Ida at that 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.800 time was the consigliere, and you had Barney Bolomo as 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.800 the acting boss and Mickey Domino is the acting Hunter Boss. 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.640 And there was a social club at one Sevenue, one 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.480 Mulberry Street controlled by Jimmy Ida at the time. It 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.840 took a while for me to have a title three 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.600 or bugs installed in that social club, but every day 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:23.320 they're discussing crime. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.199 And if Giganti proved elusive, his brain trust proved to 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.679 be anything. But their meetings provided the Feds with investigative gold, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.320 including the moment when one of their own, an associate 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.639 named Ralph D. Simone, was singled out for elimination. 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.080 When you're proposed for induction, that would also have to 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.680 be coordinated with Chin And when Ralph D. Simone's name 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.080 was passed around, the Lukeesi family identified him as being 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.760 a rat and Mickey Domino made a gesture with his 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.960 hand like a gun, saying we'll handle it. And it 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.600 was like a week or so later DeSimone, who was dead. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.600 He was found in the trunk of a car at 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:03.280 in the airport. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.640 It was more than enough evidence for prosecutors to work with, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.920 and with their next round of arrests, law enforcement delivered 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.399 a massive blow to the Genovese organization. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.240 In New York, federal agents say for their first time 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.520 they cracked the top tier of the reputed Genevieve's crime family. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.560 Among eighteen people. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.680 Under arrest is Barney Bellomo, the Mom's alleged number two. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.439 This indictment took down the genevese acting boss under a boss, 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.760 and sixteen other members for a slew of rico charges. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.760 Gigante's power base was eroding. His insanity bluff had been called. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.119 The FEDS also had three new defectors with intimate knowledge 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.720 of the at father's past, giving the courts an opportunity 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.639 to rebuild the Windows case. So the Eastern District appointed 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.280 Deputy Chief Andrew Weisman to breathe new life into the 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:57.359 long dormant case. 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.080 The two prosecutors of the case had since left the office, 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:08.639 so it got reassigned to me and my colleague, George 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.960 stan Bealitis. He and I had tried a whole slew 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.200 of Columbus cases together. Obviously it was flattering to be 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.840 given the case in the sense that it's the boss 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.320 of incredibly powerful family. But the case had been languishing 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.480 and we didn't know anything about its merits. We didn't 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:28.840 know anything about the witnesses. 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:29.639 You know. 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.680 It was a little bit of a mixed blessing when 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:32.520 we first heard it. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.840 Despite the nerves that come with a high profile case, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.119 Andrew and his trial partner George were up for the task. 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.160 But before heading into court, the first turtle to jump 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.359 was convincing a judge what they already knew that Vincent 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.199 Gigante was mentally fit to stand trial. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.960 No judge had decided that issue. So our biggest issue 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.080 when we first got the case was what is the 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.199 proof that he's in competent or competent. We had this 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:07.080 competency hearing. It lasted many months, lots of medical testimony. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.080 We had our own medical expert. We also had the 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:12.800 defense's expert. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.800 The competency hearing was a culmination of years of back 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.920 and forth legal wrangling stemming from Giganti's first indictment back 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:21.840 in nineteen ninety. 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.760 So the evidence that was presented by the defense was 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.240 that Vincent Giganti it was basically a vegetable. For the 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.000 last twenty five years. He couldn't read, he couldn't count, 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.720 and his condition had stayed the same. We then presented 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:42.080 our own evidence through cooperating witnesses who said at the 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.000 time that you had just heard he was supposed to 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.199 be a vegetable. He was having conversations with him. We 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.159 had Pizzaviino within the Genevese family, Salvato Garvano from the 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:56.159 Gambino family. He had had interactions personally in commission meetings 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:00.880 with Vincent Scanty, so we had cooperating withnesses who could 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.080 talk about the fact that he was not incompetent, but 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.760 that would require the judge to believe our cooperating witnesses. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.520 A common line of defense for Gigante's lawyers was if 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.879 throughout these gangsters' lives they would lie, cheat, and steal, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.359 how could you possibly believe them. Now, we had. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.720 A really fantastic piece of evidence that put this entire 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.280 issue to bed. One day, I'm sitting in my office 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.120 and I remember an agent in the Columbus squad came 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.320 in and said, well, I assume you're going to call 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.560 Charlie Bodwin in your competency hearing, and I'm like, what's 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.800 a Charlie Bodwin. Charlie Bodwin was an FBI agent with 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.680 very good eyesight who was on the Genevies squad and 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.640 years earlier, the FBI wanted to go up on a 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.040 bug in this townhouse that Vince Scanty lived in from 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.359 time to time with his girlfriend. 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.240 To get a wire tap, approved, agents had to show 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.959 probable cause that illegal activity was occurring in the townhouse, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.640 which they did not have so the government went old 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.200 school and used street surveillance. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.880 Charlie Bodwin's job for about three months was to at 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.600 night go to the townhouses on the back side of 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.240 that street and look into the back of the townhouse 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.000 with a patent pencil and just record what he was seeing. 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.800 And what the surveillance team observed was not the bumbling 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:34.399 odd father of Greenwich Village. 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:37.560 I remember Charlie when he came to my office was saying, 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:39.160 I don't know that this is going to help you. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.840 I didn't see anything criminal, and I said, don't worry 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:44.760 about that. Tell me what kind of things you saw, 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.520 and he's like, well, you know, he was talking to people, 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.680 he was reading the newspaper, he was counting. 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.840 Money, hardly the activities of a man in a vegetative state. 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.640 He was doing things that were completely inconsistent with what 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.720 the defense doctor said it and we had already got 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.199 the defense doctors to agree that if he could do 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.000 those things, they had been fooled. So we put him 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.040 on in the competency hearing and it was basically game 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:15.560 over because not only was a very credible witness, but 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.160 he had contemporaneous notes. 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:21.120 You had to record all of this in court, Gigante's 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:26.200