1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,319 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. This week we talked about Peruvian archaeologist 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Julioteo and his work in Nasca. Came up over the 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: course of that episode, and the Nasca Lines also came up. 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: In our most recent installment of Unearthed, we talked about 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: that kitty that looked like a not real thing to me. 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: I too. So today we are bringing our classic episode 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: on the Nasca Lines back into the feed. So in 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: this episode, as we are talking about the theories behind 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: the lines, one of the things that we mentioned is 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: the idea put forth by Swiss author Eric van danikin 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: that aliens were involved. That fed into a web series 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: on the Nasca Lines that came out in ten and 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: that web series led Peruvian archaeologists to rigorously debunk it, 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: and it also led a lot of people to note 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: that this whole trope of indigenous works of art and 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: architecture being the work of alien ends is actually racist 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: because it gives extraterrestrials the credit for indigenous accomplishments and 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: it implies that indigenous people's are not capable of having 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: done those creations. This episode originally came out in September. 20 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff, You Missed in History Class, a production 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson, and kind 23 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: of we're doing this topic today because we've gotten several 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: requests to do some South American history, gotten so many, 25 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: and can we can we talk for a second about 26 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,279 Speaker 1: why we have not had a ton of them? Yeah. 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Much of the information is in languages that neither of 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: us read fluently. Yeah, and it makes me really sad 29 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: because I'll find some awesome, awesome historical figure from South 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: American history, and I'll be able to find like a 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: short Encyclopedia article in English, and then anything more substantive 32 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: is in Spanish or Portuguese or another language that I 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: sadly do not read well enough to use as a 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: history source on this podcast. Yeah, that's a general trickiness 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: in multiple areas. I mean, there are a lot of 36 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of African history I would love to 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: cover that it's a little bit hard to find source material, 38 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: or if we do find source material, it's deeply biased 39 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: in the favor of whoever was colonizing. Yeah, so that's 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: sort of why sometimes these don't get as much play 41 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: as we would like. But luckily today's topic has been 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: studied by so many people that there is loads of 43 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: information out there. Uh. And that is the Nasca lines. 44 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: So to give it some context, about two hundred miles 45 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: southeast of Lima, Peru, nestled right between the Andes Mountains 46 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: and the Pacific Ocean, there are these huge lines etched 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: into the desert. When I see lines, that's not really 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: entirely accurate in terms of characterization. You've probably seen photos 49 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: of these before, but if you haven't, there really really 50 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: is astonishing. We're talking about large scale designs. Uh. And 51 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: some of them are things you would recognize, like a 52 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: monkey or a spider, or a condor. There's a hummingbird. 53 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: Others are geometric and because they're etched into rock and 54 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: have survived thousands of years, this is clearly like a 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: serious amount of work that went into the creation of these. 56 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: The environment in this part of the world has really 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: helped preserve the work of the Nasca. It's a really 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: arid climate and there's not a lot of erosion, which 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: means that even tracks from chariots that were left in 60 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: the sixteenth century by warring conquistador factions are all still 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: visible in some places. Yeah, there are like, uh, tire 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: tracks from the nineteen twenties in that area that you 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: can still clearly see footprints last for hundreds of years. 64 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: It's unusual because it is close to the ocean, yet 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: it is very very dry. Uh. And for decades, these 66 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: designs caused a lot of head scratching because we didn't 67 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: understand why a culture would dive. It's so much energy 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: to creating art that we thought they couldn't really see 69 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: themselves because these are so expansive, and we'll talk a 70 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: little bit about their size in a moment that you know, 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: it seems you'd only see them from the air, right. 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: A lot of the photos of them that exists are 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: taken from from aircraft. Yeah, I mean they've been featured 74 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: in like coffee table books of like aerial archaeology. Uh. 75 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: And it is hard to imagine how they would ever 76 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: look like anything from ground level. But UH, scientists and 77 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: researchers are continuing to uncover new information about these pieces 78 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: of landscape art. We're learning more all the time. The 79 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: picture keeps getting fuller, and there's still a good bit 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: of theory in the mix. Though. We think we've figured 81 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: out what these lines might be about, or some researchers 82 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: who think they've figured it out. There have been worrying 83 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: opinions on this uh, but there's no you know, final Oh, 84 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: it's all been made clear by this discovery. And as 85 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: a note, there is a modern day town of Nasca, 86 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: which has a population of about thirty thousand people. But 87 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: for this discussion, when we use the word Nasca, we're 88 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: referring to the ancient culture or the location of the glyphs. Right. So, 89 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: as I said before, the Nascar region one of the 90 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: driest places on earth. It often goes more than a 91 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: year without rain uh. And the Pampa, the Nasca desert, 92 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: sometimes it will get like a rainfall of twelve minutes 93 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: a year, so very very little moisture going on. The 94 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Nasca culture, which predates the Incans, was in its flourished 95 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: phase between two hundred and six hundred, and there are 96 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: to these lines, more than eight hundred straight lines. There 97 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: are more than three D geometric figures UH and roughly 98 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: seventy animal or plant designs. The whole collection of drawing 99 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: spans a huge area. Some of the geometric shapes are 100 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: more than six miles across, and some of the straight 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: lines are thirty miles long. All together, the area that 102 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: the shape span is nearly five hundred square kilometers or 103 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: a hundred and nineties square miles. And just as a 104 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: note on the thirty miles long one, I have heard 105 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: differing or red differing statements about the longest line. Some 106 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: listed as low as nine, some go as high as thirty. 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: I think there are probably some that maybe have petered out, 108 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: and it's hard to discern for certain, So some are 109 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: attributing length that may or may not be attributed by 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: other people, depending on if it's faded, if it's uh, 111 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it was one of the lines, maybe 112 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: it was part of the natural landscape, So just know 113 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: that going in UH and researchers believe that all of 114 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: the designs were created using the same methodology, so basically 115 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: using wooden spades to kind of shave or carve off 116 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: the top layer of the rock and expose the lighter 117 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: sediment beneath. Some of the drawings are actually carved on 118 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: top of older ones, so there was clearly a long 119 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: term tradition of making these glyphs um and that tradition 120 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: might have evolved over time. The age of the drawings 121 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: and even the age of the culture have been debated 122 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: and the dates revised as people keep analyzing all the evidence. 123 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: It'll probably be even further revised as time goes on. 124 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: But a number that you'll see pretty often in the 125 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: research is that the lines date back hundred years, although 126 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: some newer data suggested that at least some of them 127 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: are even older than that. The UNESCO listing for the 128 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: site gives the date range of between five hundred b 129 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: C to five hundred C, and the designs are grouped 130 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: into two types. There um geoglyphs and biomorphs, and the 131 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: geoglyphs are geometric shapes and the biomorphs, as you may 132 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: have guests, feature animal or human shapes. Uh. In addition 133 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: to the ones that I mentioned earlier, there's also a hummingbird, 134 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: there's a fish, a flamingo and iguana, a fox, a whale, 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: and even others. But just to keep it confusing, often 136 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: when you're looking at research, the whole group is often 137 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: lumped on of the geoglyph name, rather than separating out 138 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: into those two separate geoglyph and biomorph Though there was 139 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: some archaeological work being done in Nasca in the late 140 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties by a Provian archaeologist who spotted some of 141 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: the designs while hiking in the nearby foothills. The lines 142 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: weren't really known of outside the area until a commercial 143 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: pilot spotted them in the thirties and sometimes UH that 144 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: date is another one that UH is a little fuzzy. 145 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: In resources that you'll read, some will list it as 146 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: late twenties, others in the early thirties. But once the 147 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: impressive geoglyphs were known to the outside world, almost immediately, 148 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: of course, people were trying to figure out what they 149 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: were about. Some positive that they were inking roads, some 150 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: suggested that they were irrigation lines. UH. The nearby Sarah 151 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: Blanco Mountain, which is technically actually a sand dune, but 152 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: it's like the largest standing in the world, I think, 153 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: or ranks up there. UH is the primary water source 154 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: for the area because of an underground reservoir, and at 155 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: least one of the triangular geoglyphs runs along the water 156 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: veins that are in that mountain. Another favorite, as is 157 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: always a favorite for everything cool, comes up in every 158 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: piece of sort of difficult to explain or we haven't 159 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: done the research that finds the key yet aliens aliens 160 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: their alien landing strips mostly popular in the nineties sixties, 161 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: also not particularly surprising. It was perpetuated mostly by Eric 162 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: von Danikin, who has made a career as an author 163 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: specializing in writing about alien interaction with humans, especially in 164 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: early cultures. Yeah, Dannikin actually really angered one of the 165 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: people who really dedicated their lives to studying this with 166 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: his theories. Uh. And then others have applied the concept 167 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: that they have religious meaning. And there are variations on 168 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: this one that the lines are paths to rituals, or 169 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: that their messages to the gods, ETCETERA American Paul Kazak, 170 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: was a professor of history at Long Island University, is 171 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: often credited with being the first person to seriously study 172 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: these lines. His interest was really irrigation, and it was 173 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: the theory that the lines could have been complex water 174 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: routing ditches that led him to Peru, But he almost 175 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: immediately realized that the lines were just too shallow to 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: carry water. On June twenty ninety one, he saw that 177 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: the straight line he was standing near pointed directly at 178 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: the setting sun, and he believed that it was a 179 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: marker for the winter solstice. In the meantime, a young 180 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: woman named Maria Reicha, who was a mathematician from Dresden, 181 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: Germany and spoke five languages, also started analyzing and mapping 182 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: the drawings in Uh. And she came to that because 183 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: she had actually gone to South America initially to tutoring 184 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: diplomat's children, but then started working as a translator in Lima. 185 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: And it was through her translation work that she actually 186 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: met Paul kazak Uh in Lima, and the professor really 187 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: became a mentor to Reicha, And once she learned of 188 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: the lines, it was kind of I don't I don't 189 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: want to over romanticize it and say it was a 190 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: love at first sight thing, but she pretty quickly just 191 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: decided that was her life's work. Uh. She really did 192 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: devote the rest of her life to them, and she 193 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: even lived in a small desert house near the Nasca 194 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: lines to serve as their protector. So, even though it's 195 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: this huge expanse, this one woman kind of out there 196 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: in the desert living by herself, really felt like she 197 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: had to keep a watch on everything. And she became 198 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: known as the Lady of the lines and she actually 199 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: um as I said, she lived out her life there. 200 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: She became a Peruvian citizen in at the age of 201 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: ninety one. Uh. And it was very highly regarded, I 202 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: think by the Peruvian people and by the government. Ah. 203 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: But her work with Kazak, really in that early stage, 204 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: really formed the basis for the rest of her analysis. 205 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: Right while working with him, six months after this winter 206 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: solstice revelation, she discovered a line that pointed to the 207 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: sun during the summer solstice. This led Cossack to believe 208 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: that they had uncovered a celestial calendar, and he characterized 209 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: the Nasca Lines as the world's largest astronomy book. This 210 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: really reminds me of Stonehenge, and how if you stand 211 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: in certain places in Stonehenge, you see specific they line 212 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: up with specific astronomical events. Yeah. It's much bigger. It's much, much, 213 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: much bigger than Stonehenge, but similarly mysterious. Yeah. Uh. And 214 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: in Kassack left Peru. It was not his life's work, 215 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: even though he loved it. Um but Maria stayed and 216 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: she continued working, and she was really attempting to find 217 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,359 Speaker 1: a pattern or a system to all of the drawings, 218 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: and she spent more than forty years mapping the area, 219 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: and as part of her work, she even painstakingly stored 220 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: portions of the glyphs that had been obscured over time. 221 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: Some of them had accumulated duster or debris, or the 222 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: the layers that had been exposed had darkened from sunlight 223 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: exposure or other elemental exposure, and she would pull those away, 224 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: never altering the glyphs, but just you know, a little 225 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: tidying and restoration. She believed that these drawings were tracking 226 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: the Sun's path and position in the sky, and that 227 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: the Nascar were using their knowledge of equinoxes to schedule 228 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: when they should plant and harvest their crops. She also 229 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: theorized that some of the glyphs were symbols correlated to 230 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: the constellations and reik working you know, as a woman 231 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: so low analyzing these phenomena. Uh, she was not taken seriously, 232 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: and she initially published her findings in the late forties, 233 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: shortly after Kasak left um, and she her writings were 234 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: pretty much met with fuel Yeah. Competing theorists all pointed 235 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: out that the vast majority of the lines and the 236 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: glyphs did not point to any celestial bodies. Yeah, there 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: was a lot of criticism that she had, you know, 238 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: found she had kind of cherry picked a few things 239 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: that lined up with her idea and then the things 240 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: that didn't line up with She wasn't really um worried 241 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: about or working into the bigger theory. But uh, just 242 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: before k had died, in one of her proteges, who 243 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: was a senior astronomer at the Adler Planetarium in Chicago 244 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: at the time, named Phillis B. Petluga, she actually came 245 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: to the conclusion that the bioglyphs were referring to the heavens. 246 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: She uh concluded that they aren't representing constellations but counter constellations, 247 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: so sort of the irregular shaped dark patches within the 248 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: milky way that you can see at night, like the 249 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: the negative space between the stars. I love that. I 250 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: do too. I looked around for a little more research 251 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: on it and didn't find a whole lot. But that's 252 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: one that I would like to delve further into because 253 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of cool and fascinating. But that's one of 254 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: those things that I worry, uh, and I'm certainly not 255 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: an astronomer. I worry that that might be again one 256 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: of those things that it's easy to make work, you 257 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Uh, there are so many stars 258 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: in the night sky that it would be easy to 259 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: like if you rotated a little, everything kind of fits 260 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: or right. Again, I'm just postulating, and I haven't looked 261 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: at her research well. And because the North Pole gradually 262 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: moves over time, the constellations are all in a slightly 263 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: different place over time, which also makes it well challenge. 264 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: But that's a really neat concept. Now that we have 265 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: all kinds of fancy computers that can adjust for those 266 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: kinds of things, it's a little easier, but still it 267 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: can be tricky that way. There was a big Peruvian 268 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: German research collaboration that started near the town of Palpa, 269 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: and it has continued to study all the lines through 270 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: the years since. Archaeologist Dr Marcus Rhyndel of the German 271 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: Archaeological Institute UH still leads a team, but he started 272 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: in the late nineteen nineties and early two thousand's with 273 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: the intent to take an in depth look at the 274 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: Peruvian Nasca lines. And their approach to the lines was 275 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: not so much starting with the lines and trying to 276 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: discern their meaning, but instead they really wanted to dig 277 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: into the culture of the ancient Nasca to try to 278 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: contextualize the Nasca lines and give a better basis for 279 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: understanding their purpose. Uh. So it definitely took a deeper 280 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: archaeological uh investigation at that point. I love that too too. Oh, 281 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: they did some really cool stuff. Because of grave robbers, 282 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: the whole desert around this area is littered with all 283 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: kinds of broken pottery and skeletons, basically a big mess 284 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: as people have plundered Nasca burial grounds. But eighty years 285 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: ago a number of intact mummies from the Nasca land 286 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: were rescued and preserved. Yeah, they had been just sitting 287 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: in a museum. But Ryan Dell's research team decided that 288 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: they wanted to use modern technology to try to analyze 289 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: those mummies as part of their kind of mission to 290 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: do more of a cultural analysis. Uh. And one of 291 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: the things that was interesting is that this uh. Their 292 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: analyses revealed dietary differences between some of the mummies. Some 293 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: were getting more animal protein and varied diets. Uh. And 294 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: around the same time that these were going on, another 295 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: part of the team found a burial shaft for a 296 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: person who obviously had kind of a higher social standing 297 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: who was adorned with a personal shrine. And these two 298 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: pieces together, the variation in diets and the fact that 299 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: they had found this shrine that clearly was different from 300 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: previous burial sites, kind of locked together to lead researchers 301 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: to believe that there was in fact a social class 302 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: system at play in the now SSCA culture. This is 303 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 1: actually a pretty significant finding. It may seem like, well, 304 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: du every culture has a class system and a social hierarchy, 305 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: but for a long time, people had believed that the 306 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,239 Speaker 1: ancient Nasca were a peaceful tribe that didn't have that 307 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: kind of structure. So there's a famous ceramic tableau called 308 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: the Teo Plaque, which features multiple Nasca playing pan pipes, 309 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: walking with dogs, and it was long held as this 310 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: iconic representation of a relaxed travel life without much of 311 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: a class system. Yeah. We uh, you know, I think, 312 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: to put it in casual terms, I think people sort 313 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: of thought of them as more like a the hippies 314 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: of history. They were just all cool with each other, 315 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: chilling out, being groovy, enjoying the land. So there were 316 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: then some theories now that they had established that there 317 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: did appear to be a class system that the Nasca 318 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: lines might have been commanded to be made by high 319 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: ranking Naskins to mark their territory or show their prestige. 320 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: Geoelectric tomography, which measures the electrical conductivity in the earth, 321 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: was then used to try to find any undiscovered buildings 322 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: or other structures that might inform this whole idea of 323 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: a more socially stratified culture. The researchers did find other structures, 324 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: and they pieced together that with other discoveries and eventually 325 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: assembled a pretty compelling model of how the Nasca were 326 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: actually running a pretty successful trade empire, linking settlements and 327 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: trade spots like beads on a necklace. Yeah. At the time, Uh, 328 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: and I should say that the findings here were really 329 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: expansive and they could easily be their own episode. But 330 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: they sort of discovered that they could have traveled along 331 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,959 Speaker 1: what is now a dry portion of the river that 332 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: was leading out to the ocean, and that they had 333 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: all of these small settlements, you know, dotting along the 334 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: way so that they could go a little trade rest, 335 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: go a little trade rest. Uh. And uh, there were 336 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: again in those findings that we're not going to dig 337 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: deep into I at least want to acknowledge them. They 338 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: found some evidence that some of the glyphs and the 339 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: structures that we've historically attributed to the Nasca were actually 340 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: pre Nasca, and they trace it all the way back 341 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: to like the migration down into South America. But for 342 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: the scope of this one, we're going to keep it 343 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: simple with regard to the trade culture and that sort 344 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: of uh other branch of the plot line of the 345 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,239 Speaker 1: Nasca and focus back on the lines. So perhaps in 346 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: the future we will do another one entirely on that, 347 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: because there's some cool stuff involving links to the Neolithic 348 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: Age that had not ever happened before. It's really really 349 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: fascinating research. As we've said already, we're talking about one 350 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: of the driest places on the planet. But in one 351 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: small basin, which is the area where the Nasca culture 352 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: is said to have flourished, there were at one point 353 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: at least ten rivers which descended from the Andes steven 354 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: S Hall, writing for National Geographic described them pretty poetically 355 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: as fragile ribbons of green surrounded by a thousand shades 356 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: of brown. So most of these rivers would have each 357 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: been dry for at least part of the year. This 358 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: nexus point offered up this perfect fertile ground to support 359 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: a settlement. It also came with a really high risk 360 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: because the microclimate in that particular spot is really unstable. 361 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: Any kind of small change, like a high pressure system 362 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: moving through can completely dry out the Nasca Valley. Yeah, 363 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: because of the way the Andes rings the area, it's 364 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: easy for um, some weather to get cut off the 365 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: system moving over at, etcetera. But at one point it 366 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: really would have been an oasis. Uh, similar to other 367 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,479 Speaker 1: famous spots in terms of like civilization development, which are 368 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: often an oasis, you know, kind of up against a 369 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: desert uh uh. And in this oasis, we know that 370 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: the Nasca grew citrus, they grew grain, they grew maze. 371 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: They had a really impressive well structure to bring water 372 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: to all these crops, and a business built around trading 373 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: some of the crops because they were so abundant. So 374 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, German geographers took samples from the 375 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: Andean Highlands where there's a climate archive. This is basically 376 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: the core drill that that we see a lot of 377 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: times when we're studying long ago facets of the Earth. 378 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: So the drill core revealed to the researchers loam and 379 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: even a snail, so there's proof that there was once 380 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: a lot more moisture in the area. Yeah, the perma 381 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: frost there had really preserved things for quite sometimes they 382 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: were able to get a really deep sample. So between 383 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: then and now, when it's known for its dry climate, 384 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: we know that the water had to have left the region, 385 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: and this, in the minds of many researchers is really 386 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: the key to understanding the Nasca lines. As more and 387 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: more excavations have been done, there's been the same imagery 388 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: that's popped up over and over on everything from everyday 389 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: tools to sacred objects, some of which have been identified 390 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: as likely weather deities. They look just like the earliest 391 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: rock carvings, which are mostly on the hills surrounding the area, 392 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: sort of like protectors. So as these researchers theorized more 393 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: and more droughts were happening in the desert, was advancing 394 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: progressively into the Nasca plateau and really spelled out this 395 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: the beginning of the end for the Nasca, and the Nasca, 396 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: believing that they had somehow failed the gods, really stepped 397 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: up their religious rituals, including their glyph making Many of 398 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: the animals that are featured in the biomorphs don't really 399 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: live near the Nasca. They are found more in rainforests 400 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: on the other side of the Andes. So the current 401 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: theory is that these figures are fertility prayers of a sort, 402 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: asking the gods for the plenty of their neighbors, including water. Yeah, 403 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: there aren't monkeys there, but there is a monkey glyph. 404 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: There aren't certainly aren't whales there, but there is a 405 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: whale glyph. Uh. Some of the birds and other animals 406 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: that they feature do not exist there, but again, right 407 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: over the Andes and the rainforest they're plentiful, so it 408 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: does make some sense certainly that they would be like, 409 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: we would like what the neighbors have, please. But the 410 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: geometric sites researchers think are likely actually ritual sites. And 411 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: there is a very cool project that was done where 412 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: they put together a computer graphics model of the entire 413 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: area and they developed it with information that the researchers 414 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: had provided regarding ruins and settlement structures of the time. 415 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty comprehensive model of what would have 416 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: been there. And in this uh uh CG version of 417 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: the Nasca area. It shows that in fact, people could 418 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: have seen the glyphs from many of the buildings in 419 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: the region, Like they weren't necessarily tall, but they it 420 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: would have had a better line of sight. Uh. And 421 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: this is a pretty significant break from the previous thinking 422 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: that we talked about earlier that they were only visible 423 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: from the sky. So that is, you know, a mistaken 424 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: belief that has probably led many researchers down the wrong path, 425 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: like um process of thought that oh, nobody could see these, 426 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: why were they making them? And how they probably could 427 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: actually see some of them. What's interesting about the geometric 428 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: designs is that they're all lockable, they're mostly on the plateau, 429 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: and this plus the revelation that you could see the 430 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: glyphs from around the area, have led researchers to theorize 431 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: that there were huge ritual spectacles that could be performed there. 432 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: It would be sort of like putting on a show 433 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: for everyone to see, including the gods. Yeah, so kind 434 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: of um religious theatricality. And it could very well be 435 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: that the glyphs went from being pectoral to taking on 436 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: this geometric approach because at that point the Asca were hurrying. 437 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: They knew that they were struggling and that they didn't 438 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: really have time for a lot of artistic flourish, so 439 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: they started focusing more on straighter lines, circles that could 440 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: be drawn inside straight lines. They didn't have to really 441 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: worry as much about mirroring images. It was more like, Okay, 442 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: we've been doing this, we're not getting the God's attention, 443 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: we're not gaining their favor. We have to do more 444 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: and more and more, and we don't have time for 445 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: all of the squiggles. Let's hurry, so which is kind 446 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: of sad to think about, but also an interesting approach 447 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: to this question of what these things are and why 448 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: they're there. In two thousand, Ryandell and his team made 449 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: an interesting discovery. While archaeologists had noticed large man made 450 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: mounds of stones that they suspected were ceremonial altars at 451 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: the end of the trapezoidal glyphs before an excavation of 452 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: one of them revealed fragments of a spawn dhilist muscle ceashell. 453 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: This particular muscle is only found off the coast of 454 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: Peru during El Nino events. This would have tied it 455 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: to rainfall in the minds of the Nasca, so the 456 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: shells found at some of these alter sites might have 457 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: been offerings to the gods from the sea to encourage water. 458 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: And this theory of water worship and requests of the 459 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: gods is also supported by the growing size of the 460 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: geoglyphs in the later period of the ancient Nasca culture 461 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: as they grew more desperate as I was talking about before, 462 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: they would have wanted everyone in their villages and settlements 463 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: to participate in the water rituals. So even uh, the 464 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: spiral lines and some of the geometric glyphs, if they 465 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: were walking them the way these researchers are suggesting as 466 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: part of their ritual, it would have forced the worshippers 467 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: to face one another over and over, kind of like 468 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: if you've ever been through like a long queue in 469 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: an amusement park and you keep seeing the same people 470 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: back and forth, uh, and it it would have as 471 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: they moved through their steps kind of reinforce their sense 472 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: of community and potentially strengthened their resolve to plead for 473 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: the gods, for their favorite for the good of everyone 474 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: like they were. Potentially this is one theory, of course, 475 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: kind of reinforcing that idea that we all need to 476 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: survive together, so we all need to be doing this. 477 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: By five hundred to six hundred, the end of the 478 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: Nasca was near. The water issue would have really been 479 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 1: insurmountable at this point. And we know that by six 480 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: fifty the Nasca had been replaced by the Way Empire, 481 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: which had its roots in the Central Highlands. Yes, so 482 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: since they weren't exclusively in this super dry area, they 483 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: kind of had a stronger um cultural presence that they 484 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: could branch out, but they always had that kind of 485 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: more hospitable environment to return to you. And so while 486 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: there isn't enough evidence to definitively prove any of these theories, 487 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: the celestial theory or certainly not the alien landing strip 488 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: theory or even these sort of pretty well thought out 489 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: water and God related theories, uh, the current front runner 490 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: among researchers, given what we've been able to uncover, does 491 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: seem to be the religious ritual usage as a means 492 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: to try to save the culture. So to sort of 493 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: wrap it up, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural 494 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: Organization better known as UNESCO put the NASCAR geog lifts 495 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: on the World Heritage List in and as I mentioned earlier, 496 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: Maria Reika died in June at the age of four 497 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: years after the lines were added to UNESCO's list, and 498 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: there was talk at the time of her death that 499 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: the lines should be named the Reicha Lines, but it 500 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: appears that idea never really gained any traction. I would 501 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: like to vote against that, please. I think it would 502 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: be too problematic for the historical record at this point. Yeah. Well, 503 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: and I also think I sort of feel like the 504 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: name of the culture that made them should be preserved 505 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: there and not replaced with some other person. They have 506 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: also been new figures discovered through the years, so even 507 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: though AA Raiko was very thorough and dedicated to the lines, 508 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: there have been advances into photography that had revealed some 509 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: glyphs that were previously really hard to make out. Yeah, 510 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: she mapped the vast majority of them, but they still 511 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: do sometimes discover them. And while the Nasca Lines are 512 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: not the only such g glyphs on Earth, they are 513 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: perhaps the most famous. UH And even now there's a 514 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: significant tourism trade built around carrying people out to the 515 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: desert UH for aerial tours to see these massive landscape 516 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: carvings from the past. It's just kind of neat. I 517 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: would like to go to a lot of eat stuff 518 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: in Peru. Yeah, some delicious food. Even beyond the food, 519 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: they're all kinds. How my tourism is based entirely around 520 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: what I can eat in different places. Uh. But yeah, 521 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: they's amazing amazing archaeology and amazing amazing ancient culture. Yeah, preserved. Yeah, 522 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: and it is one of those things where, like I 523 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: said at the top, I think most people have probably 524 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: pictures of these and maybe even heard a little bit 525 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: about them. But when you realize how much research has 526 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: been dedicated to them. I mean, even in doing this, 527 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: there are so many archaeologists that we can't sort of 528 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: step aside and talk about their individual work, so we 529 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: focused on kind of the big ones. But there's just 530 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: people are really enthralled by them. And Maria Reich is 531 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: not the only person who pretty much dedicated her entire ah, 532 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: she dedicated her entire life. Other people, many people dedicate 533 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: their careers to them, so they're engaging. I like them. 534 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: I would love to walk them all well. And the 535 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: fact that so many people have dedicated their lives to 536 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: trying to puzzle out the mysteries of what these ancient 537 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: sites were all about um makes it seem really silly 538 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: that occasionally, like governments will come up with this cookie 539 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: plan about what to do with nuclear waste and say, well, 540 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: if we market with these things, that will deter people. 541 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: Like Okay, Now, in a thousand years, people are probably 542 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: not going to be deterred. They're going to be walking 543 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: around and trying to figure out what that was about. Yeah, well, 544 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: and there is even a m I thought about that 545 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: a little bit while doing research. The big lizard glyph 546 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: actually had it's bisected by a highway that was built. 547 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: I think it was that the that highway was worked 548 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: on in Peru. And I wonder if you know, years 549 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: and years and years from now, someone will look and 550 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: be like, why was the lizard cutting ham And it's like, oh, 551 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: it was really not part of the original plan. But 552 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: they won't know that Nope, or maybe they'll figure it 553 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: out archaeology. It's so heay, so much for joining us 554 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, 555 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or a Facebook U 556 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: r L or something similar over the course of the show, 557 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: that could be obsolete. Now. Our current email address is 558 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: History Podcast at I heart radio dot com. Our old 559 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: health stuff works. Email at us no longer works, and 560 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: you can find us all over social media at missed 561 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: in History. 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