Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a
Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 2: In the criminal justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom
Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate
Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group
Speaker 2: that has defined American history. These are their stories. October sixth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, Manhattan Federal Court.
Speaker 3: Testimony continue today in the trial of that mafia so
Speaker 3: called Ruling Commission Government and informer Fredda Christopher testifying today
Speaker 3: against Carmine Persico, the repeated boss of the Colombo crime family,
Speaker 3: and on one of the defendants.
Speaker 1: Fred de Christopher was testifying for the prosecution in the
Speaker 1: Commission trial. He was Columbo family boss Carmine Persico's cousin
Speaker 1: by marriage. De Christopher had hidden Persico in his home
Speaker 1: for months and had witnessed nearly everything the boss did,
Speaker 1: and was now ready to give him up. Persico was
Speaker 1: acting as his own attorney, and to Christopher's betrayal, struck
Speaker 1: a deep nerve.
Speaker 4: This sent Persco into orbit. I mean, if you've ever
Speaker 4: heard the expression of looking daggers at somebody, this is
Speaker 4: like looking surface missiles at somebody. What Persca wanted to
Speaker 4: do was to cross examined for a to Christopher and
Speaker 4: intimidate him, to make him squirm.
Speaker 5: You could just feel the venom and the hatred that
Speaker 5: Persico felt for De Christopher during his attempt to cross
Speaker 5: examine him, that this former relative, former confidant had turned
Speaker 5: against him and become a government witness.
Speaker 1: As Persico cross examined, the sparks started to fly.
Speaker 6: At times, they bickered with the familiarity comment only to
Speaker 6: people who have lived again. Presco charged that someone bought
Speaker 6: the Christopher's Long Island home for him. To Christopher, you
Speaker 6: know I bought that house, Persico, You couldn't buy sucks.
Speaker 1: Persico took every opportunity to impune, intimidate, and even threaten
Speaker 1: the witness, behavior that in most trials would warrant an objection,
Speaker 1: But in this instance, Persico's remarks only served to paint
Speaker 1: him as the vindictive criminal that the government charged.
Speaker 4: And finally, at one point Fred kind of lost his
Speaker 4: temper and said, I know what you're trying to do
Speaker 4: with me, Carmie, I know what you're trying to do.
Speaker 4: And Perscoe very quietly in a low menacing voice said
Speaker 4: the judge, you won't let me tell you what I
Speaker 4: want to do with you. And I remember leaning over
Speaker 4: to John Savage and he just convicted himself because he
Speaker 4: sounds like the mobster he is.
Speaker 6: At one point, defense attorney Cardinal called for a mistrial.
Speaker 6: He tried to Judge Richard Owen for allowing the Christopher
Speaker 6: to call Persico Junior his nickname. The judge told both
Speaker 6: men to try to be more formal. That didn't work
Speaker 6: for long.
Speaker 5: The Christopher wouldn't last long. Christico would have literally eaten
Speaker 5: him alive.
Speaker 7: You're not with the mob because you want to be.
Speaker 8: It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on.
Speaker 7: If you like your life, you will vote to acquit.
Speaker 9: I'm aniseg and NICOLASI my father should have been a dead.
Speaker 1: Man from Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. This is lawn
Speaker 1: Order criminal justice system. The Mafia Commission trial was well underway.
Speaker 1: It was New York versus the Mob, a showdown decades
Speaker 1: in the making. Four mob bosses and their underbosses had
Speaker 1: been summoned to face multiple charges of bribery, extortion, and murder,
Speaker 1: and to everyone's surprise, Carmine Persico had chosen to forego
Speaker 1: an attorney and represent himself, and while he was no
Speaker 1: trial lawyer, even prosecutors had to admit that his inexperience
Speaker 1: was disarming and at times surprisingly effective. Here's Gil Childers.
Speaker 8: He never got my name right. He never never said Childers.
Speaker 8: He called me mister Child's, mister Children's.
Speaker 1: Whatever the move left the Feds to wonder was Persico's
Speaker 1: bravado and unpredictability all part of some master plan.
Speaker 8: He did witness examinations, cross exams on his own and
Speaker 8: stuff like that. People are saying, you know, why the
Speaker 8: hell would he do that? Well, he had nothing to lose, right,
Speaker 8: he got to stay in New York, and he got
Speaker 8: to thumb his nose at the government little bit. Do
Speaker 8: you think I'm a chief hood? You know, I'll show
Speaker 8: you I can play in your ballpark.
Speaker 1: Gil says that throughout the trial, Persico took every opportunity
Speaker 1: to shake things up, knowing his defiance and street charm
Speaker 1: had the potential to win over the jury of his
Speaker 1: fellow New Yorkers.
Speaker 8: Give him credit for this. He tried to act like
Speaker 8: a lawyer as best he could. In most instances. During
Speaker 8: one of his cross examinations of a FBI surveillance witness.
Speaker 8: He's up there and he says, Agent Jones, when you
Speaker 8: were there doing that surveillance, Were you trying to record
Speaker 8: this too? Did you have one of those diabolic microphones
Speaker 8: meaning parabolic microphone is one of those diabolic microphones that
Speaker 8: could pick up people down the street. A good scriptwriter
Speaker 8: might come to a line like that, but it would
Speaker 8: take some thought.
Speaker 1: But his affable act was also partly a disguise.
Speaker 8: During the part of the trial we were presenting the
Speaker 8: evidence in the Galante homicide, Michael Bowden, who at the
Speaker 8: time of the murder was the medical examiner for the
Speaker 8: City of New York, was testifying, and he had testified
Speaker 8: that Galante had summer in the neighborhood of eighty plus
Speaker 8: entry and exit wounds, tremendous carnage done to the bodies
Speaker 8: of the three victims, And while Boden was still in
Speaker 8: the stand, one of the defense counsel asked for a sidebar.
Speaker 1: Acting as his own lawyer, Persigo was entitled to join
Speaker 1: the meeting at the judge's bench, and it gave a
Speaker 1: brief window into the mobster's true nature.
Speaker 8: So just before the sidebar actually started. Persigo tugged on
Speaker 8: my coat sleeve and said, mister childs them guys, you
Speaker 8: think them guys died of gunshot wounds, and he dropped
Speaker 8: his head onto my shoulder. I'm looking down at the
Speaker 8: top of this guy's head as he's laughing after that
Speaker 8: coming and going, holy, this is one six bitch. And
Speaker 8: it was both a chilling and a sort of remarkable moment,
Speaker 8: the musings of a psycho mob boss.
Speaker 1: The fact was that Persigo had an meanstreak a mile wide,
Speaker 1: and lead prosecutor Michael Cherdoff knew that if it was
Speaker 1: put on full display, it could lead to the mobster's downfall.
Speaker 4: Persco would occasionally demonstrate his anger or his disdain Carmim
Speaker 4: Persco was the one who took it the most personally,
Speaker 4: and it was the most personally antagonistic.
Speaker 1: One of the most striking examples of his short fuse
Speaker 1: was when Persico faced off against a government witness named
Speaker 1: fred de Christopher. It was a showdown that had a
Speaker 1: long time coming.
Speaker 4: Most of the other defendants had been on tape, some
Speaker 4: of them quite extensively. The one major defendant who was
Speaker 4: not on tape was Carmim Persico, and that's because during
Speaker 4: many of the events in question, he was a fugitive
Speaker 4: in another case involving the Colombo family and had been
Speaker 4: hiding out in the house of his cousin and her husband.
Speaker 4: Her husband's name was fred D. Christopher, so he didn't
Speaker 4: have him on tape.
Speaker 1: Bob family's are notoriously loyal enclosed lipped when it comes
Speaker 1: to cooperating with police, but apparently even the boss of
Speaker 1: the family can eventually wear it his welcome.
Speaker 4: At some point after we indicted the case, Fred De
Speaker 4: Christopher called the FBI up and basically told them that
Speaker 4: Persico was being harbored in his wife's house with him
Speaker 4: and if they wanted him for this outstanding warrant, they
Speaker 4: could come get him. So they did, they arrested him.
Speaker 4: Fred's wife, who was Persco's cousin, stayed loyal to Persico
Speaker 4: and not Fred and of course, at that point, having
Speaker 4: betrayed Persico to Christopher, went into the witness protection program.
Speaker 1: In exchange for his insider knowledge against the Columbo boss.
Speaker 1: He received a new life far away from New York,
Speaker 1: as well as a fifty thousand dollars reward for his trouble.
Speaker 4: During that time Perscoe was in the house. He was
Speaker 4: getting evidence about this other organized crime case involving the
Speaker 4: College family, and he was reviewing it and commenting on
Speaker 4: it to fred D Christopher and making admissions about various things.
Speaker 4: So fred Christopher repeated things that Carmen Perscoe had said
Speaker 4: that were very incriminating, including his involvement with the other
Speaker 4: bosses and the commission.
Speaker 1: Persico later called to Christopher's wife to the witness stand
Speaker 1: in an attempt to both embarrass him and discredit his testimony.
Speaker 4: Persico got her to say that Freda Christopher was totally
Speaker 4: deaf and therefore Carmen Persico could not have talked to
Speaker 4: him about these criminal acts because Freda Christopher could never
Speaker 4: have heard them because he was deaf. He couldn't hear
Speaker 4: a thing.
Speaker 1: Michael had the pleasure of dispelling that theory in his cross,
Speaker 1: complete with some theatrics.
Speaker 4: I said, so, let me understand your testimony, missus D. Christopher.
Speaker 4: You're saying that your husband fred is so deaf that
Speaker 4: he couldn't hear Carmen Persiccoe. She goes, yes, absolutely, And
Speaker 4: I said, so, like if your husband were sitting where
Speaker 4: you are in the witness box, and I'm over here
Speaker 4: at the podium. You're telling me that Fredia Christopher could
Speaker 4: not hear anything I said. She goes, yes, he wouldn't
Speaker 4: hear a word you said. And I'm looking at the
Speaker 4: jurors and they're rolling their eyes. They realized that the
Speaker 4: defense story that Persco had Fred's wife tell is obviously
Speaker 4: a lie. And I think that did Perso.
Speaker 1: In the fact was that no matter how hard Persico
Speaker 1: tried to undermine the Christopher's credibility, the details and the
Speaker 1: witnesses sworn testimony were very hard to ignore. During direct exam,
Speaker 1: Michael asked him if Persico ever said anything regarding the
Speaker 1: assassination of Carmen Galante. The Christopher answered in the affirmative
Speaker 1: and said that Persico had also admitted the Commission's involvement.
Speaker 1: He also testified to being with Persico and a Colombo
Speaker 1: underboss when they received the news that Galanti was dead.
Speaker 1: Here's part of what he said in court.
Speaker 10: Anthony got on the phone and all of a sudden,
Speaker 10: a big smile came on his face and he said,
Speaker 10: well it's over. He hung up, clapped his hands and said,
Speaker 10: come on, let's go eat something. He asked Russell's sun,
Speaker 10: what did he get so happy about? And was told
Speaker 10: you'll read about it tomorrow in the papers.
Speaker 1: De Christopher gave some of the most powerful testimony of
Speaker 1: the trial. His account read like lines from a gangster movie.
Speaker 1: But the prosecution also knew that hanging a case on
Speaker 1: the testimony of an informant, especially one that had been
Speaker 1: so richly rewarded for his cooperation, carried serious risks. Still,
Speaker 1: when asked why he had turned on Persico, to Christopher's
Speaker 1: words seemed to rick true.
Speaker 10: I think what they do is despicable. They are the
Speaker 10: most despicable people on the face of the earth.
Speaker 1: It remained to be seen if the jury would believe him.
Speaker 1: During the commission trial, Bruno and Delocado sat in a
Speaker 1: defendant seat for his role in the murder of Carma Galante.
Speaker 1: He was the same man who held a gun to
Speaker 1: FBI agent Joe Cantamasa's face in the wake of his
Speaker 1: father Sonny Red's murder, one of the three capos gunned
Speaker 1: down in nineteen eighty one. Once the prosecution had finished
Speaker 1: presenting their evidence, the defense began putting on their own case,
Speaker 1: and they came armed with something up their sleeve. A
Speaker 1: surprise witness.
Speaker 7: So we're sitting there and in walks this woman. Her
Speaker 7: name was Babe Schroeder. She was in Delocado's.
Speaker 1: Aunt, Charlotte Lang and her partner Pat Marshall were caught
Speaker 1: off guard, to say the least, who's.
Speaker 7: I looked at him and be like, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I looked a pack on. We're all like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Somehow it seemed that Aunt Babe had eluded the FBI's investigation,
Speaker 1: which could prove to be a costly mistake because Bruno's
Speaker 1: aunt was ready to offer her nephew exactly the gift
Speaker 1: he had been waiting for.
Speaker 7: She said it was impossible for Bruno to be involved
Speaker 7: because he was with me all that day, so she
Speaker 7: was the alibi that they were able to dig.
Speaker 1: Up without evidence to disprove her testimony. The prosecution's case
Speaker 1: against in Dellacado might collapse.
Speaker 7: And for some reason, I turned and I looked at
Speaker 7: the back of a courtroom which was like standing room
Speaker 7: only to say the least, and there was an agent
Speaker 7: from the Columbus squad who I knew really well, and
Speaker 7: he was kind of like jumping up and down and
Speaker 7: waving at me to come back. So I did. I
Speaker 7: got up and I walked to the back and he said,
Speaker 7: we have her on tapes trying to start in the airlines.
Speaker 1: The FBI team in charge of the Colombo family knew
Speaker 1: all about ant Babe. In fact, they even had the
Speaker 1: proof that she had lied in other criminal cases.
Speaker 7: So I came back and it was close to lunchtime
Speaker 7: and I went over to Churchtov and it whispered in
Speaker 7: his ear. I said, the Columbo family has tapes of
Speaker 7: ant Babe committing crimes. And so Turtoff jumped up and said,
Speaker 7: you're Onnrina. We'd like to break for lunch. And so
Speaker 7: I went over to the office got the tapes from
Speaker 7: this particular agent. This was like a masterpiece. That afternoon,
Speaker 7: I said to Churtoff, if you go on to sit
Speaker 7: on the Supreme Court, your best moment will be the
Speaker 7: cross examination of ant Babe.
Speaker 1: Turns out that the defensive surprise witness was no match
Speaker 1: for Michael or the truth.
Speaker 7: He just took her apart. We thought she was going
Speaker 7: to faint because she kept taking a piece of paper
Speaker 7: and using it as a fan. She was sweating, she
Speaker 7: was nervous, and the judge she kept on saying do
Speaker 7: you want to take a break? Church Off would say, now, ma'am,
Speaker 7: just wait a second, take a deep breath. But he
Speaker 7: caught her in every lie.
Speaker 8: And she ended up utterly flummixed on the stand. I
Speaker 8: think she ended up taking the fifth. It was a
Speaker 8: devastating cross and it was just something that sort of
Speaker 8: fell into our lap.
Speaker 1: The defense was pulling out every trick in the book
Speaker 1: to try and discredit even the smallest points in the
Speaker 1: government's case. But time after time, Michael, John and Gil
Speaker 1: were prepared, and it turns out they were capable of
Speaker 1: dropping bombshells.
Speaker 9: Up their own.
Speaker 3: Prosecutors tonight are pushing ahead in their bid to break
Speaker 3: the back of organized crime in New York. Charles Feldman
Speaker 3: takes a look at today's proceedings in court.
Speaker 11: His name is joe Cantaloupo, a self confessed former hood
Speaker 11: in the Colombo crime family.
Speaker 1: Again, here's John Savay's.
Speaker 5: Old guy named Joey Cantalupo, who was another mob figure
Speaker 5: who we had convinced to testify.
Speaker 11: Now a government witness. Catalupo testified that after pulling off
Speaker 11: various crimes, he had to pay a big percentage of
Speaker 11: the take to Carmine Persico and his brother Alphons.
Speaker 5: He helped to fill out sort of the understanding of
Speaker 5: what the mob was, what role the Commission played in
Speaker 5: the mob.
Speaker 1: Joe Cantalupo had been a trusted associate of the Columbos
Speaker 1: four years, and he had been privy to countless crimes,
Speaker 1: schemes and even murder plots. Carmine Persico was said to
Speaker 1: have trusted Cantalupo with his life, but unfortunately for the
Speaker 1: Colombo boss, Cantalupo was also an informant for the FBI,
Speaker 1: and his testimony in court proved devastating. Cantalupo had later
Speaker 1: agreed to wear a wire to other mob meetings, the
Speaker 1: audio of which was played during the trial. But the
Speaker 1: most dramatic part of Cantalupo's testimony came when Carmine Persico
Speaker 1: approached the stand to begin his cross examination. Persico could
Speaker 1: barely contain his contempt for the man who had betrayed
Speaker 1: him and his organization. In his effort to undercut Cantalupo.
Speaker 1: Persico even went so far as to say that his
Speaker 1: testimony was all just payback for getting beaten up by
Speaker 1: Persico's brother a fight that had occurred decades before, and
Speaker 1: once again the prosecutor sat quietly with that objection and
Speaker 1: gave Persico the rope he needed to help convict himself. Eventually,
Speaker 1: the defense rested their case. It was time for each
Speaker 1: side to deliver their summations.
Speaker 8: Two summations, right, there's initial summation by the government, then
Speaker 8: there are defense summations, then there's a rebuttal summation. John
Speaker 8: Savae did the initial summation by the government, which, as
Speaker 8: I recall, was about four hours long. There were the
Speaker 8: eight defense summations, and then Mike turned off to the
Speaker 8: rebuttal summation.
Speaker 1: John Savaye would be first up, followed by the defense.
Speaker 5: It was a huge effort, major undertaking. You've got to
Speaker 5: embrace the entirety of the record. You've got to weave
Speaker 5: the evidence together with the law so that the jury
Speaker 5: will understand.
Speaker 1: And in a case this complicated, it required not just
Speaker 1: a mastery of the material, but confidence, clarity, and poise.
Speaker 5: I would be lying if I told you I was
Speaker 5: just completely cool, calm and collected. That's what I was
Speaker 5: on the outside, obviously, but inside I was very nervous
Speaker 5: and had you know that kind of jittery feeling anyone feels,
Speaker 5: an all trial lawyers feel when they're getting up to
Speaker 5: do something important, and this was especially so. You know,
Speaker 5: the courtroom was entirely packed with press, audience was full.
Speaker 5: There were a lot of folks who were from the
Speaker 5: US Attorney's office there to watch the summation. My wife
Speaker 5: was there, so I very much felt the world is
Speaker 5: watching what I'm about to do.
Speaker 1: And so John began the summation that would hopefully sense
Speaker 1: the fate of the American Mafia.
Speaker 5: The most important thing that you're trying to do is
Speaker 5: really connect with each of the jurors. They infiltrated and
Speaker 5: controlled an entire industry in New York City, the concrete
Speaker 5: construction industry. You want to make eye contact with them.
Speaker 5: Part of the power of the Commission is how they
Speaker 5: control the family through enormous and unique accumulated power. You
Speaker 5: want to feel that you are coming through to them
Speaker 5: from your heart and your mind and explaining this complicated
Speaker 5: case to them, all non lawyers in a way that
Speaker 5: they can understand and digest and take in. The time
Speaker 5: has come to place the responsibility for these crimes exactly
Speaker 5: where it belongs. The government asks you to lay that
Speaker 5: responsibility at the feet of these men.
Speaker 1: John addressed the jury with the evidence, also acknowledging their courage, sacrifice,
Speaker 1: and willingness to absorb the complicated details of the government's case.
Speaker 1: In the end, it was a story of greed, violence,
Speaker 1: and hopefully justice. When he came to the end of
Speaker 1: his remarks, the most consequential summation in his young career,
Speaker 1: there was no rapturous applause or flurry of congratulatory backslaps,
Speaker 1: just as shuffling of notes as he returned to his seat.
Speaker 1: People just don't even realize. I always just say, like,
Speaker 1: does the jury see my hand shaking as I drink
Speaker 1: that water? Because I had to have it a drinking
Speaker 1: water before I'd give a summation. I was like, do
Speaker 1: they see the shake in my hand?
Speaker 7: Right now?
Speaker 5: Exactly? We knew there was more to come, you know,
Speaker 5: then the defense gets its chance to sum up, and
Speaker 5: then we have our rebuttals, and then you have the
Speaker 5: jury instructions and jury deliberations. I knew even after we
Speaker 5: finished the main summation that we still had much more
Speaker 5: time to go.
Speaker 1: It was a monumental trial, and the nation was watching.
Speaker 1: Never before had the seemingly untouchable bosses been assembled to
Speaker 1: answer such a litany of serious charges, and now it
Speaker 1: was time to face the music. Each defense team would
Speaker 1: make their final plea for acquittal. Suspence hung over the
Speaker 1: courtroom like a storm cloud as defense lawyers approached the
Speaker 1: jury to begin their summations, which, as Michael points out,
Speaker 1: were wildly and consistent from their thin explanations for shady
Speaker 1: business practices to outrite denials of individual crimes.
Speaker 4: Interestingly, the defendants chose to admit it there is a
Speaker 4: mafia because the evidence on tape was so clear you
Speaker 4: would have looked silly not to and they tried to
Speaker 4: defend based on well, there wasn't really an extortion the
Speaker 4: so called victims really wanted to pay because it was
Speaker 4: bid rigging.
Speaker 1: With this one crucial admission that the mafia was real,
Speaker 1: and they called the shots. Salerno, Corrallo and many of
Speaker 1: their assembled underbosses looked resigned to their fates.
Speaker 4: The exception to that Persigo who claimed that fred De
Speaker 4: Christopher Lyde and you know again that he was deaf,
Speaker 4: and Percuco said he wasn't on any tapes and there
Speaker 4: was no photographic evidence, so he could not have been
Speaker 4: involved in any of this because there was no direct
Speaker 4: physical or tangible reverences involvement.
Speaker 1: Right up to the end, Persico aimed to place spoiler
Speaker 1: to the government's case, and by singling himself out, he
Speaker 1: made it clear that he was willing to throw his
Speaker 1: criminal colleagues under the bus if it meant his own acquittal.
Speaker 1: But the prosecution was not ready to let him off easy.
Speaker 5: We obviously at the time, were taking careful note. And
Speaker 5: then Michael got up and did a masterful rebuttal, marching
Speaker 5: through each of the counter theories that the defense had advanced.
Speaker 1: Not only did the jury need the courage to do
Speaker 1: what the law required, but the courage to do what
Speaker 1: no jury had ever done before convict the commission.
Speaker 5: Part of what both Michael did in his rebuttal and
Speaker 5: I did in the main summation was to ask the
Speaker 5: jurors to sort of imagine being in their shoes and
Speaker 5: being threatened in the way that they were, and what
Speaker 5: that would have felt like had it been happening to you.
Speaker 1: After the judge's charge, the jury of twelve New York
Speaker 1: citizens adjourned to delivery, and for both sides there was
Speaker 1: nothing left to do. Except wait for a verdict. Here's
Speaker 1: Gil Childers.
Speaker 8: Once that jury charge happens from the judge, you are
Speaker 8: absolutely out of control. You have no more levers of
Speaker 8: control to exercise. I've always experienced a little bit of
Speaker 8: relief that my job is done. I've done everything I can.
Speaker 8: Now it's just wait and see. But also the most
Speaker 8: anxious moments, because now you're on tinderhooks waiting for twelve
Speaker 8: people whose names you don't even know, are going to
Speaker 8: issue a verdict which is either going to validate several
Speaker 8: years of your life or render it meaningless and render
Speaker 8: you and your efforts of failure. And there's nothing more
Speaker 8: you can say about it.
Speaker 1: As reporters assembled outside the courtroom waiting for a word
Speaker 1: of a verdict, jury deliberations stretched from four days to
Speaker 1: five and then six, and anxiety in the prosecutor's office
Speaker 1: grew by the hour.
Speaker 8: You want them to take their time, but you don't
Speaker 8: want them to take too long. Goes into day three.
Speaker 8: You know, well, okay, I'm still confident in the case.
Speaker 8: But goes into the day four. Jeez, did we screw
Speaker 8: up somehow? What's going on?
Speaker 5: Periodically they would send out notes asking for some aspect
Speaker 5: of the instructions to be reread or to see some evidence,
Speaker 5: and it was hard to discern from those moments where
Speaker 5: they were heading, what they were thinking. And obviously all
Speaker 5: of that is happening in secret. Through those five days,
Speaker 5: we didn't really know what was going to happen. And
Speaker 5: then finally we were in the office and got a
Speaker 5: message that there was a verdict and that we bet
Speaker 5: our head to the courtroom right away, and we trooped
Speaker 5: in and the press was alerted to that fact, so
Speaker 5: the entire courtroom quickly filled up.
Speaker 1: Presiding Federal Judge Richard Owen solemnly stepped onto the bench
Speaker 1: and invited the jurors into the courtroom. According to John
Speaker 1: Savay's his face betrayed nothing.
Speaker 5: Four lady of the jury stood up, and she was
Speaker 5: sort of shaking with emotion. She knew that what she
Speaker 5: was about to render was a very momentous verdict. Guilty, guilty, guilty.
Speaker 11: Seven women and five men returned guilty verdicts against eight defendants,
Speaker 11: including three godfathers of mafia families.
Speaker 4: Once everyone was convicted on cent one, which is a
Speaker 4: racketurning conspiracy, we knew we were home free. And then
Speaker 4: everybody was convicted on everything. There was a lot of guilty, guilty, guilty.
Speaker 8: It was over one hundred guilties uttered by the four.
Speaker 11: For the first time, the government proved in court that
Speaker 11: since nineteen thirty one, the rules and regulations of the
Speaker 11: mafia have been set by a ruling elite comprised of
Speaker 11: the heads of New York's mob families.
Speaker 5: We were obviously ecstatic, but also doing our best to
Speaker 5: kind of keep a poker face and just listen. The
Speaker 5: jury was polled, they were all unanimous. They were excused
Speaker 5: with the thanks of the court, and when they were
Speaker 5: finally out of earshot, Michael Gill and I all had
Speaker 5: a gigantic hug.
Speaker 7: We did it.
Speaker 5: We had done it exactly well.
Speaker 12: Here in New York today, after five days of the liberation,
Speaker 12: on anonymous federal court jury convicted three crime bosses of
Speaker 12: serving on the so called Mafia Commission. Five lower ranking
Speaker 12: mob figures were also convicted on all counts while carrying
Speaker 12: out the commission's porters. Authorities had contended since nineteen thirties
Speaker 12: that organized crime had a national board of directors carving
Speaker 12: our territory and settling disputes. Now an FBI man says
Speaker 12: that all the members are either in the grave or
Speaker 12: had it to prison.
Speaker 11: The jury also convicted Anthony and Delocado of helping to
Speaker 11: kill mafia godfather Carmine Galante in nineteen seventy nine. It
Speaker 11: is believed to be the first time anyone has been
Speaker 11: brought to justice in this country for the slaying of
Speaker 11: a mafia boss.
Speaker 1: The sentences that the defendants now faced were daunting.
Speaker 13: Seven of the mob biggies convicted here today face more
Speaker 13: than three hundred years of jail time each. Anthony and
Speaker 13: Delocado could get a forty year sentence for his role
Speaker 13: as one of three trigger men who rubbed out Carmine
Speaker 13: Galente and two others back in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 8: Once the verdict came in, and for some period of
Speaker 8: time afterwards, while the glow of success was still around.
Speaker 8: One of the things I wasn't expecting was the thank
Speaker 8: yous that I got from various people in law enforcement,
Speaker 8: from people I knew well to agents I didn't know.
Speaker 8: Was incredibly touching every time it happened.
Speaker 1: Long the common collected face of the prosecution team, Michael
Speaker 1: admits that he too felt an enormous sense of relief.
Speaker 4: Because the stakes were very high. We'd been entrusted as
Speaker 4: young lawyers with this major case. We didn't want to
Speaker 4: let anybody down. And I think we had an enormous
Speaker 4: sense of just Wow, we're relieved, and we're just over
Speaker 4: joy that we've survived this.
Speaker 1: As John explains, the success of the Commission case rested
Speaker 1: on the enormous body of investigative work that had been
Speaker 1: assembled over the course of not just years, but decades.
Speaker 5: Long before Michael Gill and I got up in court,
Speaker 5: this huge amount of work had been done. And you know,
Speaker 5: if you think about it, the bravery of the agents
Speaker 5: who stole into a social club or who figured out
Speaker 5: a way to get into the home of a mob
Speaker 5: boss and get a bug up and running is incredible.
Speaker 5: They were the ones on the front line doing those
Speaker 5: very dangerous things. They're the ones who are doing the
Speaker 5: laborious task of surveillance and tracking people down and taking
Speaker 5: photographs at just the right moment that we then are
Speaker 5: later able to use and weave together into the narrative
Speaker 5: that we told in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: As for Carmine Persico, his gamble to act as his
Speaker 1: own attorney and go it alone, it came up snake eyes.
Speaker 13: Colombo family boss Carmine Persico Junior may have been the
Speaker 13: one to suffer most today. Earlier this week, he was
Speaker 13: sentenced to thirty nine years in prison on a previous
Speaker 13: racket's conviction. Persico couldn't even blame today's conviction on his lawyer,
Speaker 13: since the mobster chose to act as his own attorney.
Speaker 1: Throughout the trial, each of the secutors reflected on what
Speaker 1: this case meant to them and how it was a
Speaker 1: game changer for their professional lives.
Speaker 8: Obviously, it takes a certain amount of self confidence to
Speaker 8: stand in front of a jury and present a case,
Speaker 8: and it was fulfilling from a professional standpoint, But to
Speaker 8: do a case of historic importance that thirty five years
Speaker 8: later plus we're still talking about.
Speaker 5: It, It was absolutely thrilling as a young lawyer to
Speaker 5: work on a case that was as momentous as this case.
Speaker 4: It really was a revolutionary moment in my career development,
Speaker 4: and probably John and Gills as well.
Speaker 1: The effect this verdict had on countless people in New
Speaker 1: York City as a whole was clear.
Speaker 4: I think it showed the American justice system functioning well
Speaker 4: and justice getting done their.
Speaker 1: Work on this case also bonded the men. Friendships reformed
Speaker 1: that have lasted to this day.
Speaker 5: We've all remained friends ever since. You couldn't possibly have
Speaker 5: asked for better colleagues. Incredibly talented lawyers, crazy smart and
Speaker 5: lovely people into the bargain. So I was a very,
Speaker 5: very very lucky guy that I got to work with
Speaker 5: both of them.
Speaker 1: The impact on organized crime was swift. First and foremost,
Speaker 1: the mob lost its longtime leaders.
Speaker 14: I think it's going to take a long time to
Speaker 14: replace the kind of the network that these men put together.
Speaker 14: I mean, these men had personal relationships and experience going
Speaker 14: back over decades, which was a kind of they were
Speaker 14: kind of gray eminences of the mob, and they're just
Speaker 14: hopefully won't be people like that out on the street
Speaker 14: now that can pull this mafia together.
Speaker 4: It removed much of the more sophisticated leadership of the
Speaker 4: American mafia, and so then the mantle began to fall
Speaker 4: to people who were less sophisticated, less strategy.
Speaker 1: But like with the fall of any empire, defeat can
Speaker 1: breed chaos, and in the aftermath of the Commission case,
Speaker 1: law enforcement nationwide braced itself for the inevitable wave of violence.
Speaker 1: The surviving members of the mafia were about to fight
Speaker 1: for control within the weakened organization.
Speaker 13: Law enforcement officials say there is now a power vacuum
Speaker 13: at the top of Lacos and Astra, with all of
Speaker 13: its old leaders either in jail or engraves. A great
Speaker 13: deal of turmoil is expected as other mafia dons struggled
Speaker 13: to take control of the mob.
Speaker 1: In other words, the mob was severely wounded, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't yet dead, and it wasn't long before what was
Speaker 1: left of the Five families found its footing once more,
Speaker 1: and a new crop of leaders made their play for
Speaker 1: the top spots.
Speaker 11: The mafia is run as if it were a law
Speaker 11: large business, which it is. That means new people will
Speaker 11: take over the posts vacated by senior members who are they.
Speaker 1: The battle for New York Streets was far from over.
Speaker 7: Like Rudy said, to kill a snake, you got to
Speaker 7: take the head off. That's what basically the commission case did.
Speaker 7: But then, of course Gotti filled in for Castellano.
Speaker 1: John Gotti was an ambitious underboss poised to take control
Speaker 1: of the Gambino crime family after the murder of Paul
Speaker 1: Castellano with his designer suits and million watt smile. The
Speaker 1: teflon Don was a boss for a new era in
Speaker 1: the American mafia, as comfortable on the front pages of
Speaker 1: the newspaper as he was in the back rooms of
Speaker 1: Little Italy. His rival Vincent Gigante, who would take a
Speaker 1: much different approach to being a crime boss than his
Speaker 1: high profile competitor.
Speaker 4: He was famous for not saying anything orally because he
Speaker 4: didn't want to be recorded. You know, he would walk
Speaker 4: around pretending to be mentally deranged, would not say anything
Speaker 4: in a place where it could be recorded, like in
Speaker 4: a building. But there's a view that emerged even after
Speaker 4: our trial that he was actually the power in the
Speaker 4: General's filming, that Salerno was kind of the front man.
Speaker 1: They called him Vincent the Chin. But despite his eccentric behavior,
Speaker 1: there was a growing suspicion that Giganty was actually the
Speaker 1: brains behind the whole operation.
Speaker 2: Next time on Law and Order, Criminal justice system.
Speaker 5: Who are these guys that fooled the United States government?
Speaker 2: The Genevie's family, They were secret of these people would
Speaker 2: tell you if your hair was on fire.
Speaker 7: I made recordings where they wouldn't say his name, where
Speaker 7: they would refer to chin gigante by just putting their
Speaker 7: finger to their chin.
Speaker 9: The fact that he missed my father should have been
Speaker 9: a dead man, because if someone screws something like that up,
Speaker 9: there's no room for them to stay.
Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of
Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazi.
Speaker 2: This episode was written by Trevor Young and Anna Sega Nicolazzi.
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen Michael
Speaker 2: at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeartRadio. Executive produced by
Speaker 2: Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor Young
Speaker 2: and Chandler Mays, and producers Jesse Funk, Nooms Griffin, and
Speaker 2: Rima el Kali. This season is executive produced by Anna
Speaker 2: Seagan Nicolazzi, Story producer Walker Lamond. Our researchers are Carolyn
Speaker 2: Townlage and Lukes. Dance. Editing and sound designed by Jesse Funk.
Speaker 2: Original music by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post,
Speaker 2: Additional music by Steve Moore and additional voice over by
Speaker 2: me Steve Zernklton. Special thanks to Fox five in New
Speaker 2: York ABC and CBS for providing archival material for the show.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks for listening.