1 00:00:14,956 --> 00:00:32,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin hay Slight Changers. I can't believe I get to 2 00:00:32,196 --> 00:00:35,996 Speaker 1: say this, but Brenee Brown is launching my new book, 3 00:00:36,236 --> 00:00:39,636 Speaker 1: The Other Side of Change into the World. Join me 4 00:00:39,756 --> 00:00:43,156 Speaker 1: for an exclusive virtual conversation with Brene on the eve 5 00:00:43,316 --> 00:00:47,156 Speaker 1: of my book launch, January twelfth, at eight pm Eastern. 6 00:00:47,996 --> 00:00:51,636 Speaker 1: Brene's work has shaped my understanding of resilience, and I'm 7 00:00:51,676 --> 00:00:54,596 Speaker 1: delighted that she believes in this book as much as 8 00:00:54,676 --> 00:00:57,676 Speaker 1: I do. You can register for the event at the 9 00:00:57,716 --> 00:01:01,316 Speaker 1: link in the show notes or at changewithmaya dot com 10 00:01:01,356 --> 00:01:04,876 Speaker 1: slash launch. The event is open to anyone who has 11 00:01:04,916 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: pre ordered the book from any retailer in the US. 12 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:13,196 Speaker 1: Are limited and registration closes on December fourteenth, so sign 13 00:01:13,236 --> 00:01:16,196 Speaker 1: up soon, and if you can't make the event live, 14 00:01:16,436 --> 00:01:19,396 Speaker 1: don't worry, a recording will be sent to everyone who 15 00:01:19,476 --> 00:01:23,316 Speaker 1: signs up. I can't wait to see you there. Okay, 16 00:01:23,556 --> 00:01:24,636 Speaker 1: Now onto Zarna Garg. 17 00:01:26,076 --> 00:01:28,916 Speaker 2: People have always said that I'm funny. That is one 18 00:01:28,956 --> 00:01:31,676 Speaker 2: thing I've had my whole life, and my whole life, 19 00:01:31,716 --> 00:01:34,156 Speaker 2: I was a great. Of all the gifts that I 20 00:01:34,196 --> 00:01:39,516 Speaker 2: could have gotten, I got this funny. What are you doing? Funny? Nothing? 21 00:01:40,396 --> 00:01:43,916 Speaker 1: When Zarna garg was growing up in Mumbai, her ability 22 00:01:43,956 --> 00:01:47,236 Speaker 1: to make people laugh didn't register as a valuable skill, 23 00:01:47,836 --> 00:01:50,596 Speaker 1: but today she is one of the most in demand 24 00:01:50,636 --> 00:01:54,796 Speaker 1: comedians in America. She's open for people like Amy Poehler 25 00:01:54,956 --> 00:01:58,956 Speaker 1: and Tina Fey, and has starred in two solo comedy specials. 26 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:02,116 Speaker 1: Zarna first step foot on a comedy stage when she 27 00:02:02,236 --> 00:02:05,796 Speaker 1: was forty four years old, and she's quickly become known 28 00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:07,276 Speaker 1: for her irreverence style. 29 00:02:07,796 --> 00:02:12,076 Speaker 2: A little about me. I'm an immigrant. I'm here to 30 00:02:12,116 --> 00:02:17,156 Speaker 2: take your jobs. Wat job, Jerry Seinfeld. 31 00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:23,076 Speaker 1: But she doesn't just take risks on stage. What's defined 32 00:02:23,116 --> 00:02:26,756 Speaker 1: her success in life is a high tolerance for discomfort 33 00:02:27,156 --> 00:02:29,996 Speaker 1: and a steadfast trust in her own instincts. 34 00:02:30,516 --> 00:02:33,516 Speaker 2: Courage is a learned behavior. Nobody gave it to me. 35 00:02:33,676 --> 00:02:35,916 Speaker 2: I have to give it to me. A lot of 36 00:02:35,916 --> 00:02:38,556 Speaker 2: people say I just don't have it in me, as 37 00:02:38,596 --> 00:02:41,916 Speaker 2: if other people just got it and they didn't. It's 38 00:02:41,956 --> 00:02:44,796 Speaker 2: not like that. You can learn courage the way you 39 00:02:44,916 --> 00:02:46,076 Speaker 2: learned to walk. 40 00:02:50,436 --> 00:02:53,876 Speaker 1: On Today's show, why It's never too late to bet 41 00:02:53,916 --> 00:03:00,996 Speaker 1: on yourself. I'm Maya Shunker, a scientist who studies human behavior, 42 00:03:01,516 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 1: and this is a slight change of plans a show 43 00:03:04,556 --> 00:03:07,196 Speaker 1: about who we are and who we become in the 44 00:03:07,196 --> 00:03:19,596 Speaker 1: face of a big change. I first encountered Zarna while 45 00:03:19,596 --> 00:03:23,676 Speaker 1: scrolling YouTube one day and instantly found her both relatable 46 00:03:23,916 --> 00:03:24,796 Speaker 1: and hilarious. 47 00:03:25,396 --> 00:03:28,076 Speaker 2: Everywhere you know. My eleven year old son came home 48 00:03:28,076 --> 00:03:30,996 Speaker 2: from school the other day and he goes, mom, my, teth. 49 00:03:31,076 --> 00:03:33,956 Speaker 2: School has asked me to declare my pronouns. What should 50 00:03:33,956 --> 00:03:36,716 Speaker 2: I say? I said, you tell them you are Indian. 51 00:03:36,796 --> 00:03:38,036 Speaker 2: Your pronoun is doctor. 52 00:03:40,716 --> 00:03:43,396 Speaker 1: But I didn't know much about her personal story and 53 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:47,196 Speaker 1: how exactly she scaled comedy heights until I read her 54 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:51,236 Speaker 1: best selling memoir, This American Woman. As I would come 55 00:03:51,276 --> 00:03:55,076 Speaker 1: to learn, Zarna's courage to determine her own path was 56 00:03:55,076 --> 00:03:57,956 Speaker 1: a reaction to a life she knew she didn't want. 57 00:03:58,836 --> 00:04:01,516 Speaker 1: Zarna grew up in India in the nineteen eighties in 58 00:04:01,556 --> 00:04:04,756 Speaker 1: a well to do family. Things were comfortable, but she 59 00:04:04,876 --> 00:04:09,716 Speaker 1: always felt that her rebellious, outspoken personality type ran against 60 00:04:09,836 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 1: the cultural norms in her family. Things came to a 61 00:04:13,436 --> 00:04:16,596 Speaker 1: head when she was fourteen and her dad told her 62 00:04:16,756 --> 00:04:19,516 Speaker 1: it was time for an arranged marriage. 63 00:04:19,916 --> 00:04:22,636 Speaker 2: I just didn't want it. Look I thought I had 64 00:04:22,676 --> 00:04:26,316 Speaker 2: the choice. I assumed that I'm being asked do I 65 00:04:26,436 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 2: want to do it? So that was the first big 66 00:04:29,156 --> 00:04:31,116 Speaker 2: wake up call that no one was asking me. I 67 00:04:31,196 --> 00:04:34,436 Speaker 2: was being told that this is what we're doing, and 68 00:04:34,476 --> 00:04:37,436 Speaker 2: that if I didn't want it, then that means I 69 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:40,236 Speaker 2: got to figure out my own life somewhere else. My 70 00:04:40,356 --> 00:04:44,116 Speaker 2: dad couldn't understand what my problem was, and in his mind, 71 00:04:44,276 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 2: he was asking for a very reasonable thing. He's like, 72 00:04:47,676 --> 00:04:50,996 Speaker 2: you would have gotten married at sixteen seventeen anyway, All 73 00:04:51,076 --> 00:04:54,756 Speaker 2: my siblings were married before they turned twenty, and often 74 00:04:54,796 --> 00:04:57,356 Speaker 2: in the arranged setting. To be very crass about it, 75 00:04:57,996 --> 00:05:00,996 Speaker 2: if you're younger, you get a better deal. In fact, 76 00:05:00,996 --> 00:05:03,796 Speaker 2: many people back then didn't understand what my problem was, 77 00:05:04,276 --> 00:05:07,316 Speaker 2: including women, including a lot of my aunts who were 78 00:05:07,436 --> 00:05:09,956 Speaker 2: arranged themselves. They were like, you know, he's going to 79 00:05:09,996 --> 00:05:11,836 Speaker 2: find a nice guy for you, Like why are you 80 00:05:11,836 --> 00:05:12,876 Speaker 2: fighting this so much? 81 00:05:13,316 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 1: If you could articulate exactly what you were rejecting when 82 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 1: you were rejecting your father's decision to give you an 83 00:05:23,356 --> 00:05:27,556 Speaker 1: arranged marriage, what were you rejecting? What were you resisting? 84 00:05:28,636 --> 00:05:32,876 Speaker 2: What my father was offering me was security, Like we 85 00:05:32,956 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 2: will place you in a situation where you will be secure, 86 00:05:36,596 --> 00:05:40,756 Speaker 2: and your baseline will be determined, like the floor is set. 87 00:05:41,756 --> 00:05:44,716 Speaker 2: But what I saw was that along with the floor, 88 00:05:44,716 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 2: the ceiling is set, because this family is now going 89 00:05:48,516 --> 00:05:51,476 Speaker 2: to decide what I can and cannot do. And I 90 00:05:52,196 --> 00:05:56,116 Speaker 2: remember thinking, I'm going to bet that I can do 91 00:05:56,236 --> 00:05:59,316 Speaker 2: better than whatever this is, Like, why do I need 92 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:02,836 Speaker 2: somebody to set the ceiling for me? Why can't I 93 00:06:02,956 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 2: determine my own ceiling? I mean, I remember reading about 94 00:06:06,556 --> 00:06:09,436 Speaker 2: women who were lawyers and doctors and things, king like 95 00:06:09,476 --> 00:06:12,556 Speaker 2: why can't I be one of those people. I remember 96 00:06:12,636 --> 00:06:15,356 Speaker 2: reading in a lot of different places that life is 97 00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:18,036 Speaker 2: a gamble. You don't know how it's gonna work. I 98 00:06:18,116 --> 00:06:21,516 Speaker 2: remember thinking to myself that if life is a gamble, 99 00:06:21,596 --> 00:06:23,036 Speaker 2: I will gamble on myself. 100 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:27,756 Speaker 1: That's so beautifully said. I'm going to better myself, But. 101 00:06:27,756 --> 00:06:29,796 Speaker 2: I had no basis for it. Just so people know, 102 00:06:30,396 --> 00:06:33,436 Speaker 2: had no I had no business believing in myself. 103 00:06:33,556 --> 00:06:36,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's a bad. 104 00:06:34,556 --> 00:06:39,436 Speaker 2: As to lead anybody to believe that they should believe 105 00:06:39,476 --> 00:06:41,756 Speaker 2: in me, or me should believe in myself. 106 00:06:42,756 --> 00:06:46,156 Speaker 1: You said that you knew if you rejected your dad's 107 00:06:47,276 --> 00:06:49,076 Speaker 1: I was going to say advice, but it's not advice. 108 00:06:49,196 --> 00:06:52,996 Speaker 1: His proclamation of how things ought to happen, how things 109 00:06:53,076 --> 00:06:55,636 Speaker 1: were going to happen, you would need to find your 110 00:06:55,676 --> 00:06:59,116 Speaker 1: own way in your life. Tell me about what the 111 00:06:59,116 --> 00:07:01,796 Speaker 1: conversation looked like in which you said no, I don't 112 00:07:01,796 --> 00:07:03,036 Speaker 1: want this, and what followed. 113 00:07:03,796 --> 00:07:07,196 Speaker 2: I so clearly remember him saying I am done parenting. 114 00:07:08,116 --> 00:07:10,716 Speaker 2: I am done. So when he said, well, if you 115 00:07:10,756 --> 00:07:13,036 Speaker 2: don't want to do this, you can't live here anymore, 116 00:07:13,916 --> 00:07:15,916 Speaker 2: I think he thought, oh, well, she's going to go 117 00:07:15,916 --> 00:07:17,836 Speaker 2: to a friend's house for one night, and then she's 118 00:07:17,876 --> 00:07:20,516 Speaker 2: going to come back and reality will hit and then 119 00:07:20,556 --> 00:07:25,836 Speaker 2: we'll be back on track for his agenda. I think 120 00:07:25,916 --> 00:07:29,556 Speaker 2: what neither of us expected is how big headed both 121 00:07:29,596 --> 00:07:32,356 Speaker 2: of us were going to be about it. And I 122 00:07:32,396 --> 00:07:34,796 Speaker 2: certainly did not think that he would dig in his 123 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:39,436 Speaker 2: heels as hard as he did. Like my extremely Western 124 00:07:39,596 --> 00:07:43,356 Speaker 2: oriented influenced mind, I was like, is he crazy? Like 125 00:07:43,596 --> 00:07:46,556 Speaker 2: why is this an issue? I'm just I'm home, I'm 126 00:07:46,556 --> 00:07:49,276 Speaker 2: doing my school work. Like I wasn't, Like even though 127 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:52,796 Speaker 2: I was a rebellious kid, I wasn't creating problems for anybody. Yeah, 128 00:07:52,876 --> 00:07:56,076 Speaker 2: like people need to know, Like it's not because in America, 129 00:07:56,156 --> 00:07:58,996 Speaker 2: when a teen is rebellious, you're like assuming all these 130 00:07:59,036 --> 00:08:03,476 Speaker 2: like is she getting pregnant? I was reading the newspaper 131 00:08:03,716 --> 00:08:07,036 Speaker 2: exact like to me, it was like he has to 132 00:08:07,076 --> 00:08:10,396 Speaker 2: come around, like this cannot be my only option. But 133 00:08:10,476 --> 00:08:12,316 Speaker 2: it pretty much was in his eyes. 134 00:08:12,796 --> 00:08:15,076 Speaker 1: What was that period like? And how long did it last? 135 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:16,756 Speaker 1: How did you survive outside of your home? 136 00:08:17,636 --> 00:08:19,556 Speaker 2: You know, when you're a teenager and you have a 137 00:08:19,596 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 2: life full of friends, You're like, fine, I'll go stay 138 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:26,036 Speaker 2: with my friend. We've been trying to do sleepovers for 139 00:08:26,076 --> 00:08:29,436 Speaker 2: the last year. And when I left, I left with 140 00:08:29,556 --> 00:08:31,956 Speaker 2: the mindset that this is gonna blow over and in 141 00:08:31,996 --> 00:08:34,156 Speaker 2: the meantime, I will stay with my friends and figure 142 00:08:34,196 --> 00:08:38,716 Speaker 2: it out. I think reality hit me when after two 143 00:08:38,796 --> 00:08:41,436 Speaker 2: days my best friend's mom said, I think you need 144 00:08:41,476 --> 00:08:44,836 Speaker 2: to go home. And that's when I was like, oh no, 145 00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:49,196 Speaker 2: Like where am I gonna go? Like what home? You know, 146 00:08:49,236 --> 00:08:51,916 Speaker 2: because I when I left, my dad was very clear 147 00:08:51,956 --> 00:08:54,356 Speaker 2: that you're not coming back here unless you're ready to 148 00:08:54,396 --> 00:08:58,876 Speaker 2: fall into line with the plan. And then it became 149 00:08:58,916 --> 00:09:00,996 Speaker 2: a story of like, let me try this friend, and 150 00:09:01,076 --> 00:09:04,436 Speaker 2: let me try this auntie, and who lives nearby and 151 00:09:04,516 --> 00:09:07,036 Speaker 2: who is a commutable distance and how am I going 152 00:09:07,076 --> 00:09:09,836 Speaker 2: to get there? Things that I had never worried about 153 00:09:09,956 --> 00:09:10,476 Speaker 2: until then. 154 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:15,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, were you ever fearful during this extended period because 155 00:09:15,516 --> 00:09:17,556 Speaker 1: at the time you thought it was a transient state, Right, 156 00:09:17,636 --> 00:09:18,996 Speaker 1: I'm going to be back in a couple of days. 157 00:09:19,356 --> 00:09:23,036 Speaker 1: But as the months and the years passed, what did 158 00:09:23,076 --> 00:09:24,996 Speaker 1: you feel being away from your family? 159 00:09:25,676 --> 00:09:30,716 Speaker 2: I was lonely. I was very consumed by like what 160 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:35,156 Speaker 2: is happening? Like how did my life go so off 161 00:09:35,276 --> 00:09:39,076 Speaker 2: track in one day? I felt like no one is 162 00:09:39,076 --> 00:09:41,476 Speaker 2: ever going to understand what I want in life, like 163 00:09:41,596 --> 00:09:45,556 Speaker 2: nobody in India certainly. Yeah, I was trying. My sister, 164 00:09:45,596 --> 00:09:47,876 Speaker 2: who lived in Ohio, was trying to get me a visa. 165 00:09:47,956 --> 00:09:50,596 Speaker 2: I was trying to get myself a visa to come 166 00:09:50,636 --> 00:09:52,796 Speaker 2: to the US to study, because if I made it 167 00:09:52,796 --> 00:09:55,516 Speaker 2: to my sister's house, she was willing to take me 168 00:09:55,596 --> 00:09:58,396 Speaker 2: in and I would be safe and secure for a while. 169 00:09:58,796 --> 00:10:01,716 Speaker 2: But coming to America is not so easy as an Indian, 170 00:10:01,876 --> 00:10:04,916 Speaker 2: you know, as an Indian person, especially somebody with no 171 00:10:05,076 --> 00:10:09,036 Speaker 2: parents lobbying for them, no paperwork really, So even though 172 00:10:09,236 --> 00:10:12,556 Speaker 2: I had sent out all kinds of things into the 173 00:10:12,676 --> 00:10:15,676 Speaker 2: universe and my sister was trying, I didn't think it 174 00:10:15,716 --> 00:10:20,796 Speaker 2: was gonna happen. Nothing was materializing. I was so exhausted. 175 00:10:21,516 --> 00:10:24,116 Speaker 2: I feel like there's a part of that exhaustion that 176 00:10:24,196 --> 00:10:27,236 Speaker 2: will never leave my body. At that point, I had 177 00:10:27,276 --> 00:10:31,156 Speaker 2: exhausted every relative, every friend, every human being I knew 178 00:10:31,196 --> 00:10:34,516 Speaker 2: in Mumbai to take me in to host me. You know. 179 00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:37,916 Speaker 2: I was like, there's no endgame, Like he's won. So 180 00:10:38,836 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 2: when I went back, I was like, Okay, maybe I 181 00:10:42,996 --> 00:10:47,236 Speaker 2: should channelize my efforts into go with his plan. But 182 00:10:47,316 --> 00:10:49,356 Speaker 2: how to make it the best plan for me? 183 00:10:49,756 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 1: Okay, so optimize the suboptimal. 184 00:10:52,996 --> 00:10:56,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, maybe the guy is not as bad as 185 00:10:56,756 --> 00:11:00,756 Speaker 2: my brain is imagining him to. Maybe the circumstances can 186 00:11:00,916 --> 00:11:04,636 Speaker 2: be bettered than what they throw up. And the initial 187 00:11:04,716 --> 00:11:08,756 Speaker 2: negotiation of the arrangement, because there was just nothing left, 188 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 2: I had given up. I was like, this is it, 189 00:11:12,076 --> 00:11:13,836 Speaker 2: Like I can't fight this anymore. 190 00:11:13,916 --> 00:11:18,316 Speaker 1: Absolutely, at some point you just stopped the resistance because 191 00:11:18,356 --> 00:11:19,116 Speaker 1: it's too tiring. 192 00:11:19,476 --> 00:11:22,356 Speaker 2: You just don't have an end game, Like there was nothing, 193 00:11:22,516 --> 00:11:24,196 Speaker 2: There was no door opening. 194 00:11:24,396 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, Sasarn, I mean your story could have just sort 195 00:11:27,676 --> 00:11:31,476 Speaker 1: of ended there. But you secretly got a visa without 196 00:11:31,516 --> 00:11:34,436 Speaker 1: anyone knowing. You packed a bag, you picked up the visa, 197 00:11:34,476 --> 00:11:36,756 Speaker 1: you got on a plane, you're not staying with your sister. 198 00:11:37,756 --> 00:11:41,876 Speaker 1: And what's so interesting to me is that this counterfactual 199 00:11:41,956 --> 00:11:44,956 Speaker 1: life of which you knew so little. I'm going to 200 00:11:44,996 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 1: literally pack my bags move across the world with no 201 00:11:48,676 --> 00:11:53,276 Speaker 1: plan whatsoever, still felt like the better bet than the 202 00:11:53,316 --> 00:11:56,396 Speaker 1: one that your dad had paid for you. Yeah, so 203 00:11:56,476 --> 00:11:58,636 Speaker 1: tell me more about how you thought about that trade 204 00:11:58,636 --> 00:12:01,076 Speaker 1: off and where you found that fearlessness. 205 00:12:01,116 --> 00:12:04,956 Speaker 2: You know, I'm telling you it was not fearlessness, it 206 00:12:05,076 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 2: was but desperation. I was surrounded by women who did 207 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:12,436 Speaker 2: not understand be or my curiosity my whole life. They 208 00:12:12,436 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 2: didn't understand why I wanted to read a newspaper every day. 209 00:12:15,876 --> 00:12:18,916 Speaker 2: They didn't understand why I wanted to work, Like, why 210 00:12:18,916 --> 00:12:20,956 Speaker 2: would anybody want to be a lawyer when you can 211 00:12:20,996 --> 00:12:24,316 Speaker 2: be home and running a home. I realized that if 212 00:12:24,356 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 2: I get married in that setting, that's who I'm going 213 00:12:29,156 --> 00:12:33,796 Speaker 2: to become, because that's what that system creates. You could 214 00:12:33,796 --> 00:12:35,916 Speaker 2: see it, it could see it in all the women 215 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:39,396 Speaker 2: around me. They were not unhappy women. Just to be clear, 216 00:12:39,516 --> 00:12:42,276 Speaker 2: they were affluent women. They had all the money in 217 00:12:42,316 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 2: the world to shop and eat out and all the 218 00:12:45,596 --> 00:12:48,596 Speaker 2: things that we would consider markers of a good life, right, 219 00:12:49,036 --> 00:12:51,996 Speaker 2: But I was a kid that hated shopping, like I 220 00:12:52,036 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 2: don't belong in that world. Even here, I remember always 221 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:59,636 Speaker 2: being the one thinking, this feels like this whole thing 222 00:12:59,836 --> 00:13:02,716 Speaker 2: is not serving the women. It's serving somebody, It is 223 00:13:02,756 --> 00:13:06,756 Speaker 2: not serving them. Yeah. It was that that feeling of 224 00:13:07,476 --> 00:13:10,916 Speaker 2: keep me away from this that gave me courage to 225 00:13:10,956 --> 00:13:15,076 Speaker 2: pursue that other thing, like whatever that other thing was. Yeah. 226 00:13:15,436 --> 00:13:18,076 Speaker 1: So then over the next three decades, you build this 227 00:13:18,236 --> 00:13:22,036 Speaker 1: really beautiful life in the US. Right, You go to college, 228 00:13:22,236 --> 00:13:25,476 Speaker 1: you marry your now husband, you work as an attorney, 229 00:13:25,556 --> 00:13:27,596 Speaker 1: and you become a stay at home mom to your 230 00:13:27,636 --> 00:13:31,996 Speaker 1: three kids. How in the world, Sarna did stand up comedy, 231 00:13:32,076 --> 00:13:35,516 Speaker 1: of all things, become a realistic career option. 232 00:13:36,836 --> 00:13:39,156 Speaker 2: But it was not. I'm still not sure it is. 233 00:13:42,236 --> 00:13:46,916 Speaker 2: I tried and failed at so many things, like so 234 00:13:47,196 --> 00:13:50,316 Speaker 2: many things, like I was a matchmaker for a minute. 235 00:13:50,556 --> 00:13:54,276 Speaker 2: Was so bad, Oh my god, it was terrible. Matchmaking 236 00:13:54,356 --> 00:13:58,076 Speaker 2: is a whole job of just basically telling women it's 237 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 2: not too late. That's it. That's the whole job. Ninety 238 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:03,636 Speaker 2: percent of it is that, I'm telling you, being honest. 239 00:14:04,516 --> 00:14:07,396 Speaker 2: I tried a cooking, a vegan chili business because I'm 240 00:14:07,476 --> 00:14:10,636 Speaker 2: vegetarian and trying to be always. I used to take 241 00:14:10,676 --> 00:14:12,596 Speaker 2: my kids for a lot of the things that I 242 00:14:12,676 --> 00:14:15,676 Speaker 2: was trying. One so they gave me courage, and two 243 00:14:15,716 --> 00:14:18,756 Speaker 2: because I wanted them to learn. I wanted them to 244 00:14:18,796 --> 00:14:21,636 Speaker 2: see that your mom is trying new things and it's okay, 245 00:14:21,636 --> 00:14:23,676 Speaker 2: and she might fail, and that's also okay. 246 00:14:23,916 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 1: That's great. 247 00:14:24,716 --> 00:14:27,076 Speaker 2: But my daughter, I think when she was with me 248 00:14:27,276 --> 00:14:30,156 Speaker 2: on many of these trips, started noticing. She's like, Mom, 249 00:14:30,196 --> 00:14:32,796 Speaker 2: you know. I think what turned it for her was 250 00:14:32,836 --> 00:14:37,196 Speaker 2: she saw a guy who bought my chili once because 251 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:39,836 Speaker 2: we were talking for a long time, and then as 252 00:14:39,836 --> 00:14:41,916 Speaker 2: soon as I turned it around, he threw the chili away. 253 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:45,516 Speaker 2: And I think it was an aha moment in my 254 00:14:45,636 --> 00:14:48,796 Speaker 2: daughter's mind that, like, he paid all that money because 255 00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:52,916 Speaker 2: he wanted to hear what she was saying. He had 256 00:14:52,916 --> 00:14:56,036 Speaker 2: no interest in the chili. It's her stories that are 257 00:14:56,116 --> 00:15:00,196 Speaker 2: the product. Then she started making notes like all their 258 00:15:00,276 --> 00:15:02,436 Speaker 2: kids have been hanging out at our house for years. 259 00:15:02,476 --> 00:15:05,956 Speaker 2: They're like, all these kids who have broken relationships or 260 00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:08,356 Speaker 2: bad grades or whatever, they love hanging out with my 261 00:15:08,516 --> 00:15:11,276 Speaker 2: mom because she's going to make them laugh about it, 262 00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:15,276 Speaker 2: and she's gonna make them feel better about it. My son, 263 00:15:15,356 --> 00:15:18,636 Speaker 2: who at the time was fourteen or fifteen, said to me, Mom, 264 00:15:19,116 --> 00:15:23,396 Speaker 2: when I tell my friends your stories, they stop dead 265 00:15:23,436 --> 00:15:26,156 Speaker 2: in their tracks. They want to hear more. Now these 266 00:15:26,156 --> 00:15:28,316 Speaker 2: are fifteen year old boys. They don't want to hear 267 00:15:28,356 --> 00:15:33,876 Speaker 2: about anything. Of all the people that you can try 268 00:15:33,916 --> 00:15:36,516 Speaker 2: to get attention from, try to get a fifteen year 269 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:40,556 Speaker 2: old boy who's although I obsessed with sports, that happening. 270 00:15:41,436 --> 00:15:44,996 Speaker 1: That's the true marker of success. That is the pressure test. 271 00:15:45,396 --> 00:15:49,876 Speaker 2: And then my daughter did this whole birthday gift experiment. 272 00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:52,316 Speaker 2: You know, she reached out to people I've known my 273 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:55,156 Speaker 2: whole life and said, can you write a line or 274 00:15:55,196 --> 00:15:57,476 Speaker 2: two about my mom? It's for her birthday. I'm making 275 00:15:57,516 --> 00:16:00,996 Speaker 2: a gift. And she stuffed this whole water dispenser that 276 00:16:01,036 --> 00:16:04,036 Speaker 2: I had been wanting for my kitchen, and instead of 277 00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:06,196 Speaker 2: stuffing it with water and lemons and all that, she 278 00:16:06,276 --> 00:16:11,236 Speaker 2: stuffed it with notes from people about what they had 279 00:16:11,236 --> 00:16:14,276 Speaker 2: to say about me. And overwhelmingly the notes were like, 280 00:16:14,356 --> 00:16:18,476 Speaker 2: she's funny, She's hilarious. She made us laugh. That is 281 00:16:18,556 --> 00:16:21,676 Speaker 2: one thing I've had my whole life. People have always 282 00:16:21,716 --> 00:16:24,556 Speaker 2: said that I'm funny, and my whole life I was like, great, 283 00:16:24,956 --> 00:16:27,356 Speaker 2: of all the gifts that I could have gotten, I 284 00:16:27,436 --> 00:16:33,356 Speaker 2: got this funny. What are you doing with funny? Nothing? Useless? 285 00:16:34,356 --> 00:16:36,916 Speaker 1: Do you remember what your first jokes were about? 286 00:16:37,716 --> 00:16:41,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. My first joke was about how I 287 00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:44,916 Speaker 2: came to America with nine dollars in my pocket. Ten 288 00:16:44,996 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 2: thousand in the bank, but nine in the pocket, because 289 00:16:49,036 --> 00:16:53,676 Speaker 2: there is truth to that. In my life. I came 290 00:16:53,756 --> 00:16:58,236 Speaker 2: to America as a broke teenager, It's true, but my 291 00:16:58,436 --> 00:17:01,076 Speaker 2: sister took me in in a big way and she 292 00:17:01,276 --> 00:17:04,636 Speaker 2: was living a good life. So in some way, I 293 00:17:04,956 --> 00:17:08,476 Speaker 2: relate to both sides of being an immigrant. I relate 294 00:17:08,596 --> 00:17:12,076 Speaker 2: to being that broke person who has nothing, but I've 295 00:17:12,156 --> 00:17:16,276 Speaker 2: also intimately seen the life where you come in and 296 00:17:16,436 --> 00:17:19,836 Speaker 2: work and get that American dream very quickly. Yeah, so 297 00:17:20,156 --> 00:17:22,916 Speaker 2: my life experience is actually the range. 298 00:17:23,556 --> 00:17:23,756 Speaker 1: Now. 299 00:17:23,796 --> 00:17:26,676 Speaker 2: In New York, you know, we all go to charitable 300 00:17:26,716 --> 00:17:30,956 Speaker 2: events and people talk about where they give money and 301 00:17:30,996 --> 00:17:34,956 Speaker 2: the effects of that charity. Often in those rooms, I'm 302 00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 2: the only one who received charity for many, many years 303 00:17:39,596 --> 00:17:42,316 Speaker 2: and then found a seat on the table. So when 304 00:17:42,356 --> 00:17:45,876 Speaker 2: I wrote that joke, I actually meant both sides of it, 305 00:17:46,356 --> 00:17:48,236 Speaker 2: And then I wrote a lot of jokes of my 306 00:17:48,276 --> 00:17:51,316 Speaker 2: mother in law. Oh my god, I remember. One of 307 00:17:51,316 --> 00:17:54,516 Speaker 2: the earliest jokes I remember was like, my mother in 308 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:58,196 Speaker 2: law asked my husband because he brought me to meet her, 309 00:17:58,236 --> 00:18:00,196 Speaker 2: right we were not arranged. She was like, I got 310 00:18:00,236 --> 00:18:03,316 Speaker 2: you a jacket at Brooks Brothers for her. And it 311 00:18:03,396 --> 00:18:06,756 Speaker 2: feels so rude and grasp but it's like and then 312 00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:09,276 Speaker 2: I built it into how crazy she is, but we 313 00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:11,676 Speaker 2: all are. I probably will be about my son. 314 00:18:12,076 --> 00:18:15,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm not in denial about that. I want 315 00:18:15,156 --> 00:18:18,996 Speaker 1: to know. Did you feel at all constrained by having 316 00:18:18,996 --> 00:18:23,516 Speaker 1: an Indian heritage and being concerned about offending people, feeling 317 00:18:23,556 --> 00:18:25,716 Speaker 1: like certain categories were off limits. 318 00:18:26,156 --> 00:18:28,996 Speaker 2: No? And I tell you why, because I have thought 319 00:18:28,996 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 2: about it. I've been penalized for being brutally honest my 320 00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:36,796 Speaker 2: whole life. In some way, I just don't know how 321 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:40,556 Speaker 2: else to be like I don't the only other setting 322 00:18:40,636 --> 00:18:43,756 Speaker 2: is off Like me, I don't say anything. I just 323 00:18:43,796 --> 00:18:46,876 Speaker 2: don't have it in me to not observe what my 324 00:18:46,956 --> 00:18:49,476 Speaker 2: eyes are seeing and then talk about it. Yeah. 325 00:18:49,516 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 1: I love that part of you, and I so resonate 326 00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:54,316 Speaker 1: with it. My Mom's always like, you know, there's things 327 00:18:54,396 --> 00:18:59,236 Speaker 1: you can choose not to share right, man to share? Yeah, exactly, 328 00:18:59,276 --> 00:19:02,716 Speaker 1: But I'm like, say it, but my factory settings are 329 00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:05,756 Speaker 1: to fully disclose every little thought I'm thinking all the time. 330 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:08,436 Speaker 1: It dries my mom crazy because she's much more of 331 00:19:08,436 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: that discretion and privacy, and I've never known that setting. 332 00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:13,196 Speaker 1: In any case. 333 00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:16,716 Speaker 2: The idea that this is our culture is entirely a 334 00:19:16,796 --> 00:19:20,196 Speaker 2: male construct, like men that I now have a thing 335 00:19:20,236 --> 00:19:22,716 Speaker 2: in my head, and I've taught my kids to do this. 336 00:19:22,796 --> 00:19:26,476 Speaker 2: If somebody says this is our culture, replace the word culture, 337 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:29,596 Speaker 2: but this is how our men like it, because culture 338 00:19:29,836 --> 00:19:32,196 Speaker 2: was created by the men. The women didn't have any 339 00:19:32,276 --> 00:19:35,636 Speaker 2: say anyway. And then once you replace the words with 340 00:19:36,236 --> 00:19:38,836 Speaker 2: how men like it, it starts to look absurd, like 341 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:40,356 Speaker 2: why do I care how they like it? 342 00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:44,516 Speaker 1: One hundred percent? So your first experience with stand up 343 00:19:44,716 --> 00:19:47,876 Speaker 1: was an open mic night at a Mexican restaurant called 344 00:19:48,156 --> 00:19:51,996 Speaker 1: Plia Dettes. Okay, if you can travel back to the 345 00:19:52,076 --> 00:19:54,836 Speaker 1: moment when you are prepping for this set and you're 346 00:19:54,836 --> 00:19:58,316 Speaker 1: about to come out backstage, what was that experience? 347 00:19:58,476 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 2: Like? It was great. I no one expected it to 348 00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:04,076 Speaker 2: be anything. 349 00:20:04,676 --> 00:20:08,036 Speaker 1: Well expectations that's great, Yes, my kids. 350 00:20:08,116 --> 00:20:10,436 Speaker 2: I was so irritated that my kids were making me 351 00:20:10,516 --> 00:20:12,596 Speaker 2: do this, So I was like, all right, fine, my 352 00:20:12,676 --> 00:20:15,716 Speaker 2: five friends will come and will whatever clap about the 353 00:20:15,756 --> 00:20:19,916 Speaker 2: mother in law being blah blah and whatever. Like. There 354 00:20:19,996 --> 00:20:23,516 Speaker 2: was no there was no anxiety because there was nothing 355 00:20:23,516 --> 00:20:23,996 Speaker 2: to lose. 356 00:20:24,396 --> 00:20:27,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you weren't worried that your jokes would fall 357 00:20:27,196 --> 00:20:29,676 Speaker 1: flat or that you know, you wouldn't get people to laugh. 358 00:20:30,236 --> 00:20:31,396 Speaker 1: That just wasn't a concern. 359 00:20:31,716 --> 00:20:35,756 Speaker 2: I've never heard it about that. Okay, I have a 360 00:20:35,796 --> 00:20:40,076 Speaker 2: reputation in the business. Some of the toughest jobs come 361 00:20:40,116 --> 00:20:43,756 Speaker 2: to me and I take them. My shows are filled 362 00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:46,676 Speaker 2: with kids who don't drink. Kids are very tough, but 363 00:20:46,756 --> 00:20:49,276 Speaker 2: I take them all in. I can handle it. I've 364 00:20:49,316 --> 00:20:51,636 Speaker 2: made kids laugh for twenty years as a mom. I 365 00:20:51,716 --> 00:20:54,436 Speaker 2: can do this. Yeah. I never like, I know what 366 00:20:54,516 --> 00:20:57,716 Speaker 2: it takes. I know, I just I've never questioned it. 367 00:20:57,756 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 2: I don't question it now. 368 00:20:59,796 --> 00:21:02,276 Speaker 1: To your point, like the version of comedy you want 369 00:21:02,276 --> 00:21:05,036 Speaker 1: to do is actually the version that everybody loves, and 370 00:21:05,076 --> 00:21:07,716 Speaker 1: there is nothing more satisfying in the world than when 371 00:21:07,796 --> 00:21:11,276 Speaker 1: the authentic version is the thing that resonates most of people. 372 00:21:11,916 --> 00:21:14,196 Speaker 2: I think that what you're saying is so true and 373 00:21:14,396 --> 00:21:17,676 Speaker 2: people need to hear it because we spend so much 374 00:21:17,716 --> 00:21:21,196 Speaker 2: time becoming something that we think we need to be 375 00:21:21,236 --> 00:21:24,636 Speaker 2: that we don't spend enough time just acknowledging who we are. 376 00:21:24,676 --> 00:21:26,556 Speaker 2: And maybe there's a big space for that. 377 00:21:29,916 --> 00:21:32,116 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with a slight change 378 00:21:32,116 --> 00:21:58,636 Speaker 1: of plans. I want to know what you feel. Comedy 379 00:21:58,796 --> 00:22:01,636 Speaker 1: offered you as a person that other things didn't. 380 00:22:02,436 --> 00:22:06,076 Speaker 2: Comedy saved me without a question. Comedy put food on 381 00:22:06,116 --> 00:22:08,636 Speaker 2: my table thirty years ago, when I didn't even know 382 00:22:08,676 --> 00:22:09,556 Speaker 2: it was a business. 383 00:22:09,636 --> 00:22:12,036 Speaker 1: When you're trying to catch surf, you're saying, like to 384 00:22:12,556 --> 00:22:15,236 Speaker 1: invite yourself to these friends homes and stay other catches. 385 00:22:15,276 --> 00:22:17,996 Speaker 2: People invited me in because they knew I will make 386 00:22:17,996 --> 00:22:20,276 Speaker 2: the dinner table fun. Who do we want? When you 387 00:22:20,316 --> 00:22:22,916 Speaker 2: plan a party? Who do you want? You want somebody 388 00:22:22,956 --> 00:22:25,356 Speaker 2: who's going to make the room light, make the room fun. 389 00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:28,916 Speaker 2: Who's gonna who's gonna make your other guests feel welcome? 390 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:32,916 Speaker 2: Who's gonna make you feel relaxed. Comedy is a weapon. 391 00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:37,676 Speaker 2: It's an art, it's a it's a therapy, it's a medicine, 392 00:22:37,836 --> 00:22:41,436 Speaker 2: it's everything. Comedy gave me things before I even knew 393 00:22:41,476 --> 00:22:43,756 Speaker 2: it was giving it to me. Honestly, these are all 394 00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 2: things I've realized upon reflection. I had no awareness of 395 00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:50,516 Speaker 2: it even five years ago, that that's what my life was. 396 00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:53,356 Speaker 2: A lot of comics say to me, They're like, where 397 00:22:53,356 --> 00:22:55,276 Speaker 2: did you come from? It's like you fell out of 398 00:22:55,316 --> 00:23:00,316 Speaker 2: the sky six years ago, And I'm like, I, it's true. 399 00:23:00,396 --> 00:23:03,116 Speaker 2: I stepped foot on a comedy stage six years ago. 400 00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:06,596 Speaker 2: Since then, I have two specials out into the world 401 00:23:06,596 --> 00:23:08,876 Speaker 2: on major streaming platforms. I have a book, I have 402 00:23:08,916 --> 00:23:12,316 Speaker 2: a how is this happening so fast? It's happening so 403 00:23:12,436 --> 00:23:16,036 Speaker 2: fast because I've had comedy in me my whole life. Yeah, 404 00:23:16,196 --> 00:23:17,956 Speaker 2: we just didn't do it on a stage. 405 00:23:18,356 --> 00:23:21,356 Speaker 1: Comedy was a way of life, and I've used it. 406 00:23:22,036 --> 00:23:26,076 Speaker 2: Like when I write, I write more material than any comic. 407 00:23:26,156 --> 00:23:28,996 Speaker 2: I know why, because it comes so naturally to me. 408 00:23:30,156 --> 00:23:32,556 Speaker 2: I can no CrowdWork for an hour and a half, 409 00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:35,276 Speaker 2: not a single written joke, and no problem. 410 00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:37,756 Speaker 1: It's I love that you say that, because I really 411 00:23:37,796 --> 00:23:41,516 Speaker 1: resonate in my own space. People say, oh, cognitive science 412 00:23:41,516 --> 00:23:43,636 Speaker 1: has fueled your love of humans. I say, no, no, no, 413 00:23:44,076 --> 00:23:48,636 Speaker 1: I am a cognitive scientist because I've been inherently fascinated 414 00:23:48,676 --> 00:23:51,196 Speaker 1: by other people's minds from the time I was a 415 00:23:51,196 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 1: little kid trying to crack open the nut, trying to 416 00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:57,836 Speaker 1: understand what lights people up, what gets them to feel fearful. 417 00:23:57,876 --> 00:23:59,876 Speaker 1: You know, I've been asking these questions since I was little. 418 00:24:00,076 --> 00:24:02,316 Speaker 1: That is what has led me to be a cognitive 419 00:24:02,356 --> 00:24:07,836 Speaker 1: scientist formally. But little Maya was a budding cognitive scientist 420 00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:09,516 Speaker 1: and the time she was so. 421 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:13,156 Speaker 2: Taking it in and analyzing it your whole life. You know. 422 00:24:13,196 --> 00:24:16,276 Speaker 2: In Hindi, there's a very popular Hindi movie Silsilla. It 423 00:24:16,436 --> 00:24:19,156 Speaker 2: was a very popular and controversial love triangle back in 424 00:24:19,196 --> 00:24:22,276 Speaker 2: the day. In that movie, the wife asks the husband, 425 00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:24,476 Speaker 2: who has now discovered that the woman is in love 426 00:24:24,476 --> 00:24:27,956 Speaker 2: with another man. She asks him, how did you know? 427 00:24:29,396 --> 00:24:35,076 Speaker 2: And he he says in Hindi kayama kinzer, which means 428 00:24:35,116 --> 00:24:38,076 Speaker 2: the person who loves something, they look from a different 429 00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:43,196 Speaker 2: They look with an intensity that you cannot match when 430 00:24:43,236 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 2: there's no love there. Yeah, that's what you're describing. You're 431 00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:52,316 Speaker 2: trying to decode this from such a raw cerebral space 432 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:56,556 Speaker 2: since your childhood that it's not it's not explainable to 433 00:24:56,996 --> 00:25:00,236 Speaker 2: normal people. It's not explainable in a way that academics 434 00:25:00,236 --> 00:25:02,116 Speaker 2: would be like oh you got an A plus in 435 00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:06,116 Speaker 2: this class. It's not about all those things. And I'm 436 00:25:06,276 --> 00:25:09,396 Speaker 2: like that in comedy we are definitely kindred spirits because 437 00:25:09,916 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 2: I didn't even know what a joke was when I 438 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:13,596 Speaker 2: started writing like ten jokes a day. 439 00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:16,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard that you or maybe read you literally 440 00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:18,156 Speaker 1: googled what is a joke? Yeah? 441 00:25:18,796 --> 00:25:18,996 Speaker 2: Yeah. 442 00:25:19,156 --> 00:25:21,516 Speaker 1: And I didn't know what a cognitive scientist was when 443 00:25:21,516 --> 00:25:22,836 Speaker 1: I was growing up. I was like, what is this. 444 00:25:23,036 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 1: I don't know what this is. 445 00:25:24,316 --> 00:25:26,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, you just did it. There wasn't design. I mean 446 00:25:26,756 --> 00:25:28,796 Speaker 2: I certainly not in my case. I mean I fell 447 00:25:28,836 --> 00:25:31,276 Speaker 2: into it. I resisted it for the longest time. 448 00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:34,036 Speaker 1: Is there a moment that you can remember in the 449 00:25:34,116 --> 00:25:38,516 Speaker 1: last several years where you really felt vulnerable or there 450 00:25:38,596 --> 00:25:41,916 Speaker 1: was some pain associated with this whole trajectory. 451 00:25:42,876 --> 00:25:47,796 Speaker 2: Every day? Look, I today, I am the breadwinner in 452 00:25:47,836 --> 00:25:51,756 Speaker 2: my family. My husband lost his job during COVID, and 453 00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:54,996 Speaker 2: we live a very big life. We have three kids. 454 00:25:55,676 --> 00:25:58,356 Speaker 2: One just finished college, one is in college, and one 455 00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:01,996 Speaker 2: is going to high school. When the college tuition is due, 456 00:26:02,116 --> 00:26:03,916 Speaker 2: I have a panic attack that I'm going to pay 457 00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:10,396 Speaker 2: this by selling short tickets. Like what you know, it's 458 00:26:10,476 --> 00:26:15,236 Speaker 2: a tremendous responsibility to take, and aside from the financial responsible, 459 00:26:15,276 --> 00:26:18,836 Speaker 2: it's emotional responsibility because my husband is looking to me 460 00:26:18,996 --> 00:26:21,916 Speaker 2: for courage. We're both immigrants, we don't have anybody here 461 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:26,356 Speaker 2: when he feels down and out, it's my trajectory is 462 00:26:26,356 --> 00:26:29,196 Speaker 2: giving him hope that he's going to find his way back. 463 00:26:29,596 --> 00:26:32,956 Speaker 2: My daughter now works with me, so I can't I 464 00:26:32,956 --> 00:26:35,116 Speaker 2: can't lose my cool around her because I need to 465 00:26:35,156 --> 00:26:38,916 Speaker 2: be strong for her. But privately, do I get anxiety 466 00:26:38,916 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 2: attacks all the time. One thing that I've done is 467 00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 2: I've started scheduling my panic attacks, Like I'm so busy 468 00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:50,196 Speaker 2: that I've now said, okay, January second and lunchtime, I'm 469 00:26:50,276 --> 00:26:53,676 Speaker 2: going to panic about this thing because until then I 470 00:26:53,836 --> 00:26:57,556 Speaker 2: just need to get through this holiday slate of shows. 471 00:26:57,596 --> 00:27:01,356 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I cannot afford just today's interview fall 472 00:27:01,396 --> 00:27:03,476 Speaker 1: on a skettle panic attack day? Are we good? 473 00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:06,436 Speaker 2: Today? We're on a really good day because I'm. 474 00:27:06,316 --> 00:27:09,076 Speaker 1: Not wonderful, wonderful, like do you know. 475 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:11,796 Speaker 2: What I mean? Like? Of course, I at that dark 476 00:27:11,836 --> 00:27:15,116 Speaker 2: places every day every day. I'm fifty years old. I 477 00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,276 Speaker 2: didn't know that I started comedy later in life until 478 00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:20,756 Speaker 2: I was on a news segment and somebody looked at 479 00:27:20,836 --> 00:27:23,556 Speaker 2: me and said, you started comedy late at life, and 480 00:27:23,596 --> 00:27:25,996 Speaker 2: I was like, I did, Like it didn't occur to 481 00:27:26,036 --> 00:27:28,516 Speaker 2: me until that point because I was so busy just going. 482 00:27:28,716 --> 00:27:31,436 Speaker 2: But I'm very laser focused in that way. When I 483 00:27:31,476 --> 00:27:33,636 Speaker 2: have a goal, that's all I'm chasing, Like I'm not 484 00:27:33,676 --> 00:27:36,396 Speaker 2: thinking about the noise around it. Single minded fact that 485 00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:40,916 Speaker 2: I remember coming home and thinking, Wow, I did start late, 486 00:27:41,796 --> 00:27:44,436 Speaker 2: and now what if I never make it? And what if? 487 00:27:44,476 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 2: You know, I'm in the entertainment business as a fifty 488 00:27:47,716 --> 00:27:49,916 Speaker 2: year old woman trying to sell a TV show and 489 00:27:49,956 --> 00:27:53,996 Speaker 2: a movie, and every day I get reminded that this 490 00:27:54,116 --> 00:27:56,876 Speaker 2: is it's gonna be a fight, all right. 491 00:27:56,916 --> 00:28:00,076 Speaker 1: I want more of these Zarna anti tips. Other than 492 00:28:00,116 --> 00:28:03,556 Speaker 1: scheduling your panic attacks, what else do you do to 493 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 1: manage that kind of existential worry. 494 00:28:06,756 --> 00:28:09,996 Speaker 2: One is I learned to take a break and not quit. 495 00:28:10,676 --> 00:28:13,116 Speaker 2: You there will be a time where you're like, I 496 00:28:13,196 --> 00:28:16,236 Speaker 2: just cannot do this today, and everybody is gonna have 497 00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:19,156 Speaker 2: to understand whatever that this is. Yeah, because you're gonna 498 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:22,236 Speaker 2: have an endless slate of there's always an episode to record, 499 00:28:22,276 --> 00:28:25,116 Speaker 2: there's always a person to meet. At some point, you're 500 00:28:25,156 --> 00:28:27,996 Speaker 2: gonna say to yourself today it is I'm just gonna 501 00:28:27,996 --> 00:28:30,356 Speaker 2: take a break and shut out the noise. And two, 502 00:28:30,556 --> 00:28:34,596 Speaker 2: I have really learned to find the joy in the 503 00:28:34,676 --> 00:28:37,196 Speaker 2: things that give me happiness. I used to think this 504 00:28:37,356 --> 00:28:40,996 Speaker 2: was like all white lady mumbo jumbo. Honestly right like 505 00:28:41,076 --> 00:28:45,156 Speaker 2: it feels a white lady mumbo jumbo. But I will 506 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:47,716 Speaker 2: take my makeup off, I will go get my nails done. 507 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:50,196 Speaker 2: I will pay for somebody to massage my back while 508 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:53,796 Speaker 2: I'm getting my nails done. I will do whatever I 509 00:28:53,876 --> 00:28:56,196 Speaker 2: need to do with no I mean, and I know 510 00:28:56,276 --> 00:28:58,436 Speaker 2: they all look at me. I know they're judging me. 511 00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:02,196 Speaker 2: Especially our women judge each other the most. 512 00:29:02,196 --> 00:29:04,916 Speaker 1: Look. My family is tumble. There's no phrase in tumble 513 00:29:04,996 --> 00:29:09,316 Speaker 1: for self care. They eradicated that phrase from the dictionary. 514 00:29:09,356 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 2: Exactly. I have the same thing like, can I not 515 00:29:11,836 --> 00:29:16,356 Speaker 2: have my time now without apologizing to anybody? Yeah? 516 00:29:16,756 --> 00:29:21,716 Speaker 1: What has surprised you about the person that you've become 517 00:29:22,076 --> 00:29:25,956 Speaker 1: after being a professional comedian for all these years? Are 518 00:29:25,956 --> 00:29:29,076 Speaker 1: there new parts of your personality that have surfaced that 519 00:29:29,116 --> 00:29:33,476 Speaker 1: you weren't aware were there? Or new insecurities, vulnerabilities, really anything. 520 00:29:34,276 --> 00:29:36,716 Speaker 2: I'll tell you, and it's gonna sound very arrogant, but 521 00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:39,516 Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it's okay. Be honest. I'm a pretty 522 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:44,076 Speaker 2: freaking phenomenal business woman, and I can see that coming. 523 00:29:44,996 --> 00:29:48,116 Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with entrepreneurship my whole life. I've been 524 00:29:48,156 --> 00:29:54,236 Speaker 2: reading entrepreneurship books. My whole childhood was Fortune magazine, Forbes magazine. 525 00:29:54,396 --> 00:29:56,636 Speaker 2: What color is your parachute? You name it. I've done 526 00:29:56,676 --> 00:30:00,436 Speaker 2: the self help, the business this, how he started this company, 527 00:30:00,516 --> 00:30:03,876 Speaker 2: how that company went bankrupt. I've read it all. Yeah, 528 00:30:04,236 --> 00:30:10,396 Speaker 2: But until I became my own entrepreneurial owner, I didn't 529 00:30:10,436 --> 00:30:13,876 Speaker 2: realize how good I would be at it. My instincts 530 00:30:13,876 --> 00:30:16,436 Speaker 2: are so good. I can tell you, like with one 531 00:30:16,516 --> 00:30:20,036 Speaker 2: eye close, which decision makes sense and which will not 532 00:30:20,156 --> 00:30:20,756 Speaker 2: lead to money. 533 00:30:21,596 --> 00:30:25,276 Speaker 1: I love that you share that reflection, because the whole 534 00:30:25,316 --> 00:30:28,116 Speaker 1: thesis of my book, The Other Side of Change, is 535 00:30:28,156 --> 00:30:33,796 Speaker 1: that going through the change process is involves some element 536 00:30:33,836 --> 00:30:37,596 Speaker 1: of revelation about these hidden superpowers that were just not 537 00:30:37,716 --> 00:30:39,836 Speaker 1: on display before that we didn't know we have. And 538 00:30:40,156 --> 00:30:43,996 Speaker 1: you just perfectly articulated that you discovered a new superpower 539 00:30:43,996 --> 00:30:46,676 Speaker 1: in yourself as a result of going through this change. 540 00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:49,396 Speaker 2: I mean, I am very surprised, but I'll be honest 541 00:30:49,436 --> 00:30:52,516 Speaker 2: with you, because I'm when the words sometimes in business 542 00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:55,876 Speaker 2: meetings come out of my mouth, I'm surprised I'm saying 543 00:30:55,876 --> 00:30:59,036 Speaker 2: these things. There are times when somebody will make a 544 00:30:59,076 --> 00:31:01,156 Speaker 2: crazy ask and I'll be like, look, I would do it, 545 00:31:01,196 --> 00:31:04,436 Speaker 2: but it's not right for my business, and I'm shocked, 546 00:31:04,476 --> 00:31:08,556 Speaker 2: like I'm an auntie. How did I undo forty years 547 00:31:08,556 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 2: of saying yes to everything? But I did for my business, 548 00:31:11,476 --> 00:31:14,236 Speaker 2: which is now my new baby. Yep, yep. 549 00:31:16,116 --> 00:31:20,076 Speaker 1: So you've established over the course of your life that 550 00:31:20,156 --> 00:31:25,036 Speaker 1: you are a risk taker, right. You defied your domineering father, 551 00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:28,596 Speaker 1: you disrupted an arranged marriage, you fled your home country. 552 00:31:28,996 --> 00:31:32,036 Speaker 1: You literally became a stand up comedian during a pandemic, 553 00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:37,396 Speaker 1: which is most people's biggest fear. I think what I'm 554 00:31:37,436 --> 00:31:40,316 Speaker 1: hearing from you is that you have a high tolerance 555 00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:44,396 Speaker 1: for failure. You're comfortable with discomfort on a daily basis. 556 00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:46,636 Speaker 1: Just hearing you talk about the daily anxieties that you 557 00:31:46,676 --> 00:31:49,916 Speaker 1: go through. What advice would you have for people who 558 00:31:50,036 --> 00:31:53,196 Speaker 1: want to start some new enterprise of some kind. They're 559 00:31:53,236 --> 00:31:55,596 Speaker 1: not going to become Zarna, fine, but maybe they. 560 00:31:55,516 --> 00:31:58,236 Speaker 2: Want to take up something better than Sara. Why maybe better? 561 00:31:58,276 --> 00:32:02,476 Speaker 1: Fine? The star your What advice would you have for 562 00:32:02,516 --> 00:32:05,476 Speaker 1: people who might not have the genetic gift of fearlessness 563 00:32:05,556 --> 00:32:07,596 Speaker 1: that you have, who want to take that leap. 564 00:32:08,556 --> 00:32:11,236 Speaker 2: Okay, do not lean on your genetics because they have 565 00:32:11,356 --> 00:32:14,036 Speaker 2: not served many of us well, like all our medical 566 00:32:14,076 --> 00:32:18,916 Speaker 2: doctors will tell you these South Asian genetics especially, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, 567 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:22,396 Speaker 2: So forget the genetics. I will give you the framework. 568 00:32:22,636 --> 00:32:25,316 Speaker 2: I will give you a statistical reason why you should 569 00:32:25,356 --> 00:32:29,556 Speaker 2: take chances and not worry about failure. The more chances 570 00:32:29,596 --> 00:32:32,596 Speaker 2: you take, the more you increase your surface area and 571 00:32:32,636 --> 00:32:37,996 Speaker 2: probability of succeeding. The failures will not matter in the end. Yeah, 572 00:32:38,436 --> 00:32:41,916 Speaker 2: in the end, all the failures are like the tasting 573 00:32:41,956 --> 00:32:44,396 Speaker 2: spoons of life. You know, when you're making a soup, 574 00:32:44,476 --> 00:32:45,796 Speaker 2: you taste it twenty times. 575 00:32:45,876 --> 00:32:47,996 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you just have to. 576 00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:50,996 Speaker 2: Get it perfect by the end, and it will happen 577 00:32:51,036 --> 00:32:54,396 Speaker 2: if you keep tasting enough, if you stand there with diligence, 578 00:32:54,436 --> 00:32:57,516 Speaker 2: and if you focus on what you're doing and don't 579 00:32:57,516 --> 00:33:01,236 Speaker 2: worry so much. Seek comfort in knowing that people are 580 00:33:01,276 --> 00:33:03,916 Speaker 2: so self obsessed today that nobody has time to judge 581 00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:07,116 Speaker 2: you and me. There was a time when what will 582 00:33:07,156 --> 00:33:09,756 Speaker 2: your aunt say and what will your Today, everybody is 583 00:33:09,796 --> 00:33:13,916 Speaker 2: obsessed with their own lives absolutely, which is liberating for 584 00:33:14,036 --> 00:33:16,716 Speaker 2: those of us who want to take chances. I opened 585 00:33:16,716 --> 00:33:20,156 Speaker 2: and closed fifteen businesses. None of my friends even realized. 586 00:33:20,676 --> 00:33:22,636 Speaker 2: They were like, oh, you also tried this, and I 587 00:33:22,676 --> 00:33:24,276 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, it didn't really work out, And that 588 00:33:24,396 --> 00:33:29,156 Speaker 2: was the extent of the conversation. And anybody who doesn't 589 00:33:29,236 --> 00:33:33,116 Speaker 2: understand your journey doesn't belong in your life anyway. You 590 00:33:33,156 --> 00:33:35,716 Speaker 2: don't owe an explanation to people who only want to 591 00:33:35,716 --> 00:33:39,556 Speaker 2: see you succeed. If they're not comfortable with comforting you 592 00:33:39,636 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 2: when you're failing, they're not comfortable with watching you fail. 593 00:33:42,756 --> 00:33:44,396 Speaker 2: They need to be out of your life anyway. 594 00:33:45,116 --> 00:33:48,076 Speaker 1: You talked about betting on yourself, So for all of 595 00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:50,636 Speaker 1: those who are listening, what advice do you have for 596 00:33:50,716 --> 00:33:54,036 Speaker 1: people who are maybe lacking the courage or confidence to 597 00:33:54,116 --> 00:33:57,556 Speaker 1: take that bet because there's so much unknown and so 598 00:33:57,676 --> 00:34:01,036 Speaker 1: much uncertainty on the other side, and they crave control, 599 00:34:01,076 --> 00:34:03,516 Speaker 1: they crave the security of the known path. 600 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:06,996 Speaker 2: Right. I get that, And as a parent and a 601 00:34:07,316 --> 00:34:10,676 Speaker 2: spouse and with a lot of household responsibility, I for 602 00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:13,116 Speaker 2: one hundred percent get it. But I would say to 603 00:34:13,196 --> 00:34:16,516 Speaker 2: them that courage is a learned behavior. A lot of 604 00:34:16,516 --> 00:34:19,156 Speaker 2: people say I just don't have it in me, as 605 00:34:19,196 --> 00:34:22,516 Speaker 2: if other people just got it and they didn't. It's 606 00:34:22,556 --> 00:34:26,356 Speaker 2: not like that. You can learn courage the way you 607 00:34:26,476 --> 00:34:30,116 Speaker 2: learned to walk. Like baby steps will get you somewhere. 608 00:34:30,676 --> 00:34:32,156 Speaker 2: It may not take you all the way. It may 609 00:34:32,196 --> 00:34:34,916 Speaker 2: take you beyond where you want to go. But stop 610 00:34:34,996 --> 00:34:38,836 Speaker 2: saying to yourself I'm too scared. Stop the negative self 611 00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:43,156 Speaker 2: talk and reframe it and be like, what is the smallest, 612 00:34:43,356 --> 00:34:45,796 Speaker 2: lightest lift I can make in the direction that I 613 00:34:45,836 --> 00:34:49,396 Speaker 2: want to go? I tell my friends this all the time. 614 00:34:49,636 --> 00:34:52,516 Speaker 2: What is the lightest lift you can imagine that that 615 00:34:52,596 --> 00:34:55,836 Speaker 2: gets you half a foot into that direction? And let's 616 00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:59,276 Speaker 2: start with that one day at a time. I say 617 00:34:59,316 --> 00:35:01,636 Speaker 2: to myself every day when I wake up, nothing and 618 00:35:01,676 --> 00:35:05,396 Speaker 2: nobody will stop me. It's how I give myself courage. 619 00:35:05,476 --> 00:35:07,316 Speaker 2: Nobody gave it to me. I have to give it 620 00:35:07,356 --> 00:35:10,956 Speaker 2: to me. But because say it to myself enough, I 621 00:35:11,036 --> 00:35:14,276 Speaker 2: start believing it by the end of the day. So 622 00:35:15,516 --> 00:35:19,276 Speaker 2: my advice to everybody is to stop thinking do I 623 00:35:19,356 --> 00:35:21,716 Speaker 2: have it? Do I not have it? We all have it? 624 00:35:22,076 --> 00:35:23,996 Speaker 2: Are you going to tap into it? Is the question? 625 00:35:47,316 --> 00:35:50,876 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much? For listening. I love sharing our 626 00:35:50,916 --> 00:35:54,436 Speaker 1: incredible Slight Change guests with you. This year, we're taking 627 00:35:54,436 --> 00:35:56,436 Speaker 1: a break for the holidays, but we'll be back in 628 00:35:56,476 --> 00:35:58,836 Speaker 1: the new year with a whole slate of new episodes 629 00:35:58,876 --> 00:36:02,516 Speaker 1: for you as olays. We'll have stories of personal transformation 630 00:36:03,156 --> 00:36:05,836 Speaker 1: and experts with insights to help us through the biggest 631 00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:08,876 Speaker 1: changes life throws our way. The best thing you can 632 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:11,556 Speaker 1: do to support us in the meantime is to follow 633 00:36:11,596 --> 00:36:14,796 Speaker 1: the show wherever you listen to podcasts. If you've already 634 00:36:14,836 --> 00:36:17,836 Speaker 1: done that, try to leave a review, share an episode 635 00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:20,876 Speaker 1: with a friend, or, better yet, make a playlist of 636 00:36:20,916 --> 00:36:23,796 Speaker 1: your favorite Slight Change episodes as a gift for your 637 00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:27,636 Speaker 1: friends during their upcoming holiday travel. It'll help more people 638 00:36:27,676 --> 00:36:30,556 Speaker 1: find the show. For more from me, you can follow 639 00:36:30,596 --> 00:36:33,956 Speaker 1: me on Instagram at doctor Mayah Shunker. I'll be sharing 640 00:36:33,996 --> 00:36:36,516 Speaker 1: lots of updates about my new book, The Other Side 641 00:36:36,516 --> 00:36:39,476 Speaker 1: of Change, where I profile people you've never heard from 642 00:36:39,556 --> 00:36:44,036 Speaker 1: on the show and share new scientific insights for navigating change. 643 00:36:44,236 --> 00:36:46,396 Speaker 1: Thank you for all of your support and all of 644 00:36:46,436 --> 00:36:49,156 Speaker 1: the incredible messages you've shared with me and the team 645 00:36:49,276 --> 00:36:53,676 Speaker 1: this year. I'll see you in twenty twenty six. A 646 00:36:53,676 --> 00:36:57,156 Speaker 1: Slight Change of Plans is created, written, and executive produced 647 00:36:57,196 --> 00:37:00,596 Speaker 1: by me Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes our 648 00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:05,236 Speaker 1: showrunner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate Parkinson Morgan, our 649 00:37:05,316 --> 00:37:09,076 Speaker 1: producers Brittany Cronin and Megan Luvin, and our sound engine 650 00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:13,236 Speaker 1: near Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our delightful theme song, 651 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,636 Speaker 1: and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change 652 00:37:16,636 --> 00:37:19,836 Speaker 1: of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, so big 653 00:37:19,876 --> 00:37:23,236 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone there, and of course a very special 654 00:37:23,276 --> 00:37:26,236 Speaker 1: thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow a Slight Change 655 00:37:26,236 --> 00:37:28,916 Speaker 1: of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Schunker.