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Speaker 1: The murder of Ken McElroy is an example of the

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Speaker 1: kind of small town justice so well served that it

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Speaker 1: seems like it's gotta be a movie. And it was

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Speaker 1: a movie, not a very good one starring Brian Denahey,

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Speaker 1: but the actual crime came first and it was true,

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Speaker 1: hence its inclusion on this playlist. At any rate, the

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Speaker 1: town of Skidmore, Missouri, doesn't play around. If they're pushed

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Speaker 1: too far, you can bet on that.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here too, pushing us around as usual

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Speaker 1: with this episode of Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 2: Our second episode for us of the new year, And

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Speaker 2: why didn't we save like a pretty happy one to

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Speaker 2: get going with.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, probably because we knew

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Speaker 1: we were going to be so bummed out after Jonestown.

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Speaker 1: We needed something that was a pick me up. And

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Speaker 1: what's crazy is this story actually is a pick me

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Speaker 1: up compared to Jonestown.

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Speaker 2: Yeh boy, that's tough to parse out. So thank you

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Speaker 2: to Olivia for diving into this tough story and also

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Speaker 2: this episode we want to issue a very big trigger

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Speaker 2: warning because in it we are going to talk about

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Speaker 2: a very bad man and some of the bad things

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Speaker 2: he did, which included sexual assault, and some of which

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Speaker 2: were with minors. So trigger warning. Know that going in.

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Speaker 3: There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: There's very few stories that have like a clear cut villain,

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Speaker 1: but this is one of them. And the villain who's

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Speaker 1: also the center of our story. The person at the

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Speaker 1: center of our story is a man named Ken Rex McElroy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I mean all you need to hear is that name, really,

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Speaker 1: I think, and it kind of just puts a weird

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Speaker 1: chill down your spine that you can't quite identify yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a story that you may have heard

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Speaker 2: of before. There's no shortage of content about Ken McElroy.

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Speaker 2: There was a book written in nineteen eighty eight by

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Speaker 2: Harry McClain, a crime writer, called in Broad Daylight You

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Speaker 2: Know What's Coming colon Our Murder in Skidmore, Missouri. There

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Speaker 2: was a documentary just a few years ago in twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen called documentary series actually called No One Saw a Thing.

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Speaker 3: Of which I watched at the first episode.

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Speaker 1: How is it I didn't get a chance to yet, Well.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about it. It's okay.

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Speaker 1: It's got like a seven plus on IMDb. That's really

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Speaker 1: saying something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Chuck gives it a six minus.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Still it's not too bad.

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Speaker 3: It's okay.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not a ton of light was shed. So

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Speaker 2: maybe it's because if I went into it blind it

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Speaker 2: might have been.

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Speaker 3: A little better.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha.

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Speaker 2: But there's also a nineteen ninety one TV movie starring

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Speaker 2: Brian Denahey and Marcia gay Harden, which I actually I

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Speaker 2: watched a very bad YouTube version of it. Mostly I

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Speaker 2: scribbed you a little bit of it. But it's actually

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Speaker 2: not terrible for a nineteen ninety one TV movie, largely

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Speaker 2: because Brian Dennehey is perfectly cast and awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he really is. I don't understand why they changed

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Speaker 1: the names. Did Harry MacLean change the names for in

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Speaker 1: Broad Daylight?

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Speaker 2: I didn't read the book, but I don't know. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: they do that with TV movies, huh.

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Speaker 3: Well, regardlessly innocent, you know.

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Speaker 1: I scrubbed ahead to the last probably thirty minutes, saw

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Speaker 1: the good stuff.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of all you need.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, Brian Dennehey was great in it, and

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Speaker 1: Marcia gay Harden did a great job at the really

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Speaker 1: important point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a tremendous actor, as was Dennehee Rip, Brian Dennhey.

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Speaker 1: So Ken Rex McElroy. He was from skid' More in Missouri.

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Speaker 1: That's where this story takes place. He was the fifteenth

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Speaker 1: of sixteen kids. From what I saw, he was born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four. And you can be the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: person in your state and have sixteen kids and you're

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Speaker 1: still going to be hard scrabble. Sure, his dad wasn't

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Speaker 1: the wealthiest person in the state. So the mcilroys grew

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Speaker 1: up kind of doing what they could to make their

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Speaker 1: own way. And Ken himself, I saw either he made

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Speaker 1: it up to age fifteen in school, which is a

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Speaker 1: surprising statistic to me after I know a little more

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Speaker 1: about him. I also saw that he was illiterate, which

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Speaker 1: I would definitely believe more than the fact that he

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Speaker 1: made it up to age fifteen in school. Either way,

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Speaker 1: at a young age he started taking up crime. You

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Speaker 1: get the impression not just out of necessity, but also

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Speaker 1: probably out of a certain amount of pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was to frame it in then nineteen forties.

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Speaker 2: He was born in thirty four, so by the time

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Speaker 2: he was criming, it was in nineteen forties. One thing

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Speaker 2: we should mention is, and I'm glad Livia dug this up,

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Speaker 2: and this is no way excusing any of his behaviors,

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Speaker 2: but when he was eighteen year years old, he was

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Speaker 2: a working construction and there was an accident where some

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Speaker 2: very heavy cribbing fell about thirty feet and hit him

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Speaker 2: in the head. He had a construction helmet, but it

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Speaker 2: cut his scalp, so it clearly, you know, provided minimal protection.

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Speaker 2: And he said that he had a steel plate implanted

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Speaker 2: and had episodes of like blackout episodes and pain throughout

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Speaker 2: the rest of his life. And it should be noted

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Speaker 2: that one common denominator in many cases of you know,

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Speaker 2: sick people who do awful things is head injury when

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Speaker 2: they're younger, So that very well may have been the case. Again,

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Speaker 2: not excusing anything he did, but we're trying to paint

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Speaker 2: a full picture here.

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Speaker 1: He was like a modern day Phineas Gage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like you said, It seemed like he enjoyed

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Speaker 2: criming from a young age.

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Speaker 3: He was a pretty i.

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Speaker 2: Mean this is before the accident, even he was a

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Speaker 2: pretty disturbed young man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I have to say, yeah, I would say

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Speaker 1: I would definitely agree with that. But he did do stuff.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't just like a lay about like. He was

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Speaker 1: a kind of an industrious criminal. He also trained hunting dogs.

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Speaker 1: He was a dealer of antiques, a buyer and seller.

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Speaker 1: But more than anything, he was a cattle wrestler. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: the year before his death, the county that skidaways in

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Speaker 1: our Skidmores in not Away County, the cattle thefts were

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Speaker 1: six times that of any other place in the state.

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Speaker 1: It led the state in cattle thefts. And apparently a

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Speaker 1: lot of that was Ken Mackle. He was flush with cash.

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Speaker 1: He would buy new cars, he could support. He ended

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Speaker 1: up having at least ten kids, could support them all.

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Speaker 1: He had a lot of money and all of it

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Speaker 1: essentially was from crime because he had a tiny little

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Speaker 1: farm and he wasn't making much of any money off

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Speaker 1: of that. He was making it from stealing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And when we say he had a lot of money,

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Speaker 2: it's not the kind of it's not wealth. He had

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Speaker 2: the kind of money for a criminal in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixties and skid More, Missouri, he.

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Speaker 3: Had skid More money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is to say, oh, I hope there's no

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Speaker 2: skidded Marians. There's a couple hundred of them well listening

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Speaker 2: to us. Yeah, I just assume the whole town listens

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Speaker 2: to us anyway.

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Speaker 3: They're probably so sick of a story.

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Speaker 2: But he's the kind of kind of money guy that

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Speaker 2: like he always had like a few grand in his

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Speaker 2: pocket with a big, fat money roll, like that kind

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Speaker 2: of dude. He was a big guy. He was like

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Speaker 2: six two or sixty three, had this sort of here

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Speaker 2: again kind of like Jim Jones men of the time,

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Speaker 2: had this jet black hair and these huge sideburns. He

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Speaker 2: was imposing. But he picked on people smaller than he

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Speaker 2: picked on women and children and young girls, and took

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Speaker 2: advantage of all these people. And he was arrested and

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Speaker 2: charged at least twenty one times without being convicted. And

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Speaker 2: if you're thinking, like, how in the world does that

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Speaker 2: happen when people know he's committing crimes, he's getting arrested

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Speaker 2: of these committing these crimes, it's because he had a

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Speaker 2: very I guess good, slippery attorney named Richard Gene McFadden

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Speaker 2: who was supposedly a mob attorney in Kansas City, and

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Speaker 2: upon their first meeting, he was like, you can't afford me,

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Speaker 2: and McElroy said, let me be the judge of that,

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Speaker 2: pulled out that big fat role from his pocket. Uh huh,

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Speaker 2: threw it on the desk, and McFadden was delighted to

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Speaker 2: have him as a cash paying client who listened to him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so McFadden was so was so good at getting

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Speaker 1: them off. He well, actually they worked together. McFadden was

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Speaker 1: good at getting them off, but it was he probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been nearly as successful if Ken McElroy hadn't

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Speaker 1: have been also a very active participant in getting himself off.

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Speaker 1: So Gene McFadden would get delay after delay, all these

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Speaker 1: procedural delays to just really put as much time between

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Speaker 1: Ken McElroy's arrest and the actual trial date as possible,

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Speaker 1: and then Ken McElroy would get busy intimidating witnesses, and

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Speaker 1: if it got closer and closer to trial and a

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Speaker 1: jury wasn't paneled, he would intimidate the jurors. He would

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Speaker 1: threaten their lives. He would threaten the lives of their families.

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Speaker 1: He would threaten to burn their houses down, he'd threaten

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Speaker 1: to kill them. He would threaten, not just with words,

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Speaker 1: he would intimidate them by parking in their driveways, by

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Speaker 1: brandishing guns at them, by shooting guns in the air,

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Speaker 1: sometimes in the night, outside of their house, like just

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Speaker 1: it would take a couple of these for the average

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Speaker 1: person to be like, I can't this is not what

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Speaker 1: I've signed up for. This guy's scaring me to death.

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Speaker 1: Some people lasted longer than others, but most of the time,

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Speaker 1: almost in every single time, Eventually he would intimidate enough

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Speaker 1: of the witnesses that the cases would fall apart. And

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Speaker 1: that is how he became what Crime Library referred to

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Speaker 1: as this teflon coated hicic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, like he shot a guy in the stomach in

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Speaker 2: July of nineteen seventy six, a guy named Romaine Henry.

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Speaker 3: And yes, you heard me right, Romaine Farmer spelled exactly

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Speaker 3: like the lettuce. Was he named after the lettuce? Because

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Speaker 3: was he a lettuce farmer?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Did they farm let us in Missouri?

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Speaker 3: They did in you in Arizona, I think, just.

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Speaker 1: For the sake of this story, Yes, he absolutely was

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Speaker 1: a Romaine Lettuce. Farmer's parents raised him to.

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Speaker 3: Be one and named him after that lettuce.

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Speaker 2: So he was shot in the stomach with a shotgun,

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Speaker 2: was not killed and got away with it. You know,

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Speaker 2: in the documentary, like Romaine Henry pulls up his shirt

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Speaker 2: and he's like, here's where he shot me, and court

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Speaker 2: witnesses he you know, like you said earlier, he was

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Speaker 2: one of his side hustles, was raising and training and

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Speaker 2: selling hunting dogs, and he was well liked by some people,

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Speaker 2: like the people that he dealt with with these hunting dogs.

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Speaker 2: Other crime type people liked him. So he had this

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Speaker 2: stable of dudes that would go to court and testify

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Speaker 2: on his behalf and provide him with alibis and say, like,

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Speaker 2: he didn't shoot him in the stomach. He was with

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Speaker 2: us at the time of the shooting, So he got

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Speaker 2: away with shooting Romaine Henry in the stomach with a shotgun.

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Speaker 1: Even Yeah, and just to make sure that you understand

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Speaker 1: what kind of person Kim McElroy was. The reason that

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Speaker 1: he shot Romayne Henry in the stomach was because Romayne

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Speaker 1: Henry approached him and said, hey, will you please not

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Speaker 1: shoot pheasants out of season on my land anymore? And

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Speaker 1: Kim McElroy responded by shooting him in the stomach because

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Speaker 1: he told him basically to stop shooting birds illegally on

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Speaker 1: that man's land.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it did matter who you were. There was a cop,

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Speaker 2: even highway patrolman named Richard Stratton hashtag hero. Yeah who

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Speaker 2: had you know, plenty of run ins obviously with McElroy

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Speaker 2: because like you said, this is a town of you know,

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Speaker 2: a few hundred people at the time. I think yep,

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Speaker 2: maybe like four or five hundred. Again, so everyone knew

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Speaker 2: this guy, including obviously Richard Stratton, and he had a

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Speaker 2: bunch of run INDs, and so McElroy started threatening his

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Speaker 2: home and his family. One day, his wife, Margaret, was

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Speaker 2: on a to church. She got in the car to

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Speaker 2: go to church and mclroy walks up to the car,

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Speaker 2: puts a shotgun in her face. And he did that

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Speaker 2: to cops wives, he did it to judges. The county magistrate,

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Speaker 2: Montgomery Wilson, was so fearful that he wouldn't take these cases.

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Speaker 2: He would have them move to other nearby counties.

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Speaker 3: Like he was.

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Speaker 2: People called him the town bully, but that is the

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Speaker 2: kindest way to describe him, because he was also a

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Speaker 2: child molester and rapist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I say we take a break and then come

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Speaker 1: back and talk about this all.

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Speaker 3: Right, we'll be right back, all right.

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Speaker 2: So when we left off, I leveled a pretty serious allegation,

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Speaker 2: which is absolutely true, that Ken McElroy was a child

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Speaker 2: molester and rapist. And this is one hundred percent true.

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Speaker 2: The story gets very twisted and convoluted here, but it's

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Speaker 2: kind of hard to follow along because he was married

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Speaker 2: and then had a girlfriend and the wife at the

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Speaker 2: same time, but then another one and then another Wooden

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Speaker 2: would come in and they're overlapping, and he's having kids

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Speaker 2: with most of them, and it gets very confusing. But

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Speaker 2: like you said, he fathered ten kids. A lot of

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Speaker 2: them were with underage girls. He got married for the

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Speaker 2: first time in nineteen fifty two when he was eighteen

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Speaker 2: and his wife, Alita, was sixteen, and he is not

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Speaker 2: like he calmed down or anything. He would pray and

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Speaker 2: stalk in groom girls as young as twelve and thirteen

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Speaker 2: years old, one of which was a fifteen year old

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Speaker 2: named Sharon, and they it was sort of a familiar

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Speaker 2: pattern where he would he would groom and stalk these

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Speaker 2: young teenage girls. He would abuse them, he would rape

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Speaker 2: them and threaten them with death and somehow end up

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Speaker 2: with them and not not somehow through coercion and threatened intimidation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he would get so he would be married already,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, he'd be stalking and raping and

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Speaker 1: abusing some other younger girl at the same time. And

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Speaker 1: then inevitably, when charges were about to be brought against

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Speaker 1: him because of his like rape and abuse and in

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Speaker 1: one case shooting of one of the girls, he would

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Speaker 1: he would convince them to marry him. He would go

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Speaker 1: to his wife and be like, we have to get

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Speaker 1: divorced because I got to marry this girl so that

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Speaker 1: she won't testify against me, and he would be successful.

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Speaker 1: And if if they refused at first, he would use

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Speaker 1: those same tactics that he used to intimidate witnesses to

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Speaker 1: intimidate these girls into marrying him and becoming and then astoundingly,

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Speaker 1: he would go find a younger girl and start the

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Speaker 1: whole thing over again. Like this guy got married more

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Speaker 1: than once to keep the girl that he was raping

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Speaker 1: from testifying against him, because back then a wife couldn't

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Speaker 1: testify against her husband.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, we don't need to get into every

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Speaker 2: single one of those details, but suffice it to say

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Speaker 2: this was happening over and over and over remarkably sometimes

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously, these girls parents would put up a

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Speaker 2: fight and get involved, and he would intimidate and threaten

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Speaker 2: them to the point where at one point, and this

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Speaker 2: is the wife he had sort of when the final

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Speaker 2: incident went down, Trina McLeod, who he got together.

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Speaker 3: With, this is just so sick.

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Speaker 2: When she was twelve or thirteen years old, was like

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Speaker 2: picking her up from the school bus. Yeah, and school

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Speaker 2: officials were like, something's going on with this creep. No

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Speaker 2: one ever did anything, got her pregnant at fourteen, and

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Speaker 2: moved her into the house he shared with the previous

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Speaker 2: young girl that he was with. So he had a

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Speaker 2: son with Trina in nineteen seventy three, and a couple

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Speaker 2: of others with this young girl Alice, and went to

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Speaker 2: Trina's parents' house. They obviously are saying like, you can't

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Speaker 2: keep our daughter like this, and he held them back

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Speaker 2: at gunpoint, brought the girls back, continued to abuse them,

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Speaker 2: and then eventually he would burn down the house of

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Speaker 2: Trina McLeod's parents and shoot and kill their family dog.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is he a bad enough guy at this point?

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Speaker 3: All right, dear listener.

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Speaker 1: Apparently somehow Trina ended up being treated by a doctor

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Speaker 1: somewhere or other, and the doctor got the story out

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Speaker 1: of her, and the doctor was like, wait, can you

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Speaker 1: tell me all that one more time? And I guess

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Speaker 1: she did. And the doctor called the authorities, and this

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Speaker 1: time McElroy was in a lot of trouble and they

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Speaker 1: took Trina to child Services and took her to a

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Speaker 1: family foster, a foster family, and he started stalking the

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Speaker 1: foster family and stalking their biological kids and threatening to

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Speaker 1: rape and kill them, and that foster family would not

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Speaker 1: give in. They were protecting Trina up until the time.

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Speaker 1: Trina's like, all right, I forgive you. I'm going back

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Speaker 1: to you, and I'm sure that foster family is like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe Yeah, I can't believe this.

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Speaker 1: Can you can't make that decision? And she did and

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Speaker 1: he got away with it yet again because he got

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Speaker 1: her to marry him, to keep her from being able

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Speaker 1: to even testify against her, and Gene McFadden in a

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Speaker 1: show of just how sleazy lawyers can be, served as

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Speaker 1: the witness to their wedding. I think she was fifteen

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Speaker 1: at the time, and at the end of the ceremony,

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Speaker 1: got her to sign a document saying all the things

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Speaker 1: she told that doctor were lies, and they lived as

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Speaker 1: husband and wife.

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Speaker 2: Right, So this is this was his final wife, young

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Speaker 2: Trinam of Cloud. He apparently got her parents because you know,

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Speaker 2: you needed to have permission to get married at that age,

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Speaker 2: and her parents acquiesced because he threatened to burn down

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Speaker 2: the new house that they either bought or built. And

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Speaker 2: this is where I get to the documentary, like a

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Speaker 2: lot of it should be taken with a grain of

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Speaker 2: salt because some of the local townspeople they interview are

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Speaker 2: clearly sort of just maybe don't have all the facts straight.

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Speaker 2: Because someone in that documentary said that he burned their

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Speaker 2: house down again and shot their other new dog. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't see anywhere else where that happened. I think

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Speaker 2: it was just a threat or whatever.

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Speaker 1: He killed a monkey too, right, That's what I heard.

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Speaker 2: Deal with the documentary. So this is this is going on.

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Speaker 2: He's terrorizing this town. Everyone knows he's an awful guy.

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Speaker 2: He's just it can be overstated, what.

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Speaker 3: An awful creep that he is.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, and creep isn't even that's way too

352
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Speaker 2: soft to describe a guy like this. Finally, in nineteen

353
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Speaker 2: eighty he sort of pushes his luck. As Livia would

354
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Speaker 2: call this section, things have kind of come a little

355
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Speaker 2: bit to a head.

356
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Speaker 3: They're these local shopkeepers.

357
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Speaker 2: They ran the B and B grocery there in town,

358
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Speaker 2: Lois and Earnest bo Bowen Camp, and they apparently his

359
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 2: you know, his kids would go in there and shoplifts

360
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Speaker 2: all the time, his very young kids. And one of

361
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Speaker 2: his young daughters, her name was Tonia or Tanya, I'm

362
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Speaker 2: not sure how I was pronounced Unia. Tanya was like

363
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Speaker 2: four years old and was stealing candy from the store.

364
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Speaker 2: They confronted this young girl, and of course McElroy wouldn't

365
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Speaker 2: stand for that, so he starts up with his usual routine,

366
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Speaker 2: parking outside their store, staring them down, brandishing a shotgun

367
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Speaker 2: and carrying it around with him. And in July of

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Speaker 2: that year, McElroy approached bow Bowen Camp, the grocery store owner.

369
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Speaker 2: They had a brief conversation and he shot this seventy

370
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Speaker 2: year old man through the neck again, not killing him,

371
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Speaker 2: but wounding him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so bow and Lois Bowen Camp were like

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Speaker 1: beloved in the town. Oh yeah, this is a big deal.

374
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Speaker 1: He had assaulted and a beloved elderly shopkeeper grocer who

375
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Speaker 1: fed the town, and even McElroy knew it was a

376
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Speaker 1: big deal. He fled, he tried to get out of

377
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Speaker 1: the state. And you mentioned Richard Stratton, the Missouri Highway

378
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Speaker 1: patrolman who had run ins over and over and over

379
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Speaker 1: again with Ken McElroy. Well, he was out on patrol

380
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Speaker 1: that night when that happened. That day, I guess, and

381
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Speaker 1: he got the all points bulltener to be on the

382
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Speaker 1: lookout for Ken McElroy. And at the time the Sheriff's office,

383
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Speaker 1: the rest of the Highway patrol they were setting up roadblocks,

384
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Speaker 1: looking on every highway that they could for Ken McElroy.

385
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Speaker 1: But Richard Stratton said, no, I know this guy. He's

386
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: got a police scanner. He knows exactly where they are.

387
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Speaker 1: He's going to take every back road he confined to

388
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Speaker 1: get to Kansas and get out of the state and

389
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Speaker 1: lay low for a while. And Richard Stratton said, I

390
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: know he's going to have to go through Fillmore, Missouri

391
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Speaker 1: to get to Kansas, and I'm going to stake that

392
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Speaker 1: place out. And in short order, Ken McElroy came driving

393
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Speaker 1: through in his Silverado with Trina in the seat and

394
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Speaker 1: he ended up getting busted by Richard Stratton. He was

395
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Speaker 1: caught and this again even he knew this one was

396
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Speaker 1: a big deal.

397
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, he finally was taken into custody this time.

398
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Speaker 2: He I don't know if he just had it instinct

399
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: that there was probably no way out of this one.

400
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Speaker 2: But he hired his trustee lawyer again McFadden, who said,

401
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 2: all right, let's move this thing to Harrison County first

402
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: of all, and here's our plan is. We're going to

403
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: say that this was a dispute with Bowen Camp, this

404
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 2: sort of argument you guys had over your daughter stealing

405
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 2: and that he pulled a knife on you, and that

406
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: it was self defense and you were you were forced

407
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: to do that. He was still using his you know,

408
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: typical playbook intimidation tactics on the Bowen Camps. But they

409
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 2: refused to budget, which was great. So that was their

410
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 2: that was their defense. We should also mention while this

411
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Speaker 2: is going on, he continues his reign of terror on

412
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Speaker 2: the town. There's a there was a Christian church whose

413
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: minister was Tim Warren. And if you don't know anything

414
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: about sort of small town, actually probably even larger town, ministers.

415
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Speaker 2: Part of their job they don't just get up there

416
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Speaker 2: and preach on Sundays, is they have to minister to

417
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Speaker 2: the congregation in their community.

418
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Speaker 3: So they will do things.

419
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Speaker 2: Preachers and ministers will like come and check in on

420
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 2: people if they're sick. They will visit people in the

421
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: hospital if they're injured or you know, or having some troubles.

422
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: And this is what Tim Warren was doing when he

423
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Speaker 2: checked in on, or had planned to check in on

424
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Speaker 2: Lois Bowen Camp and he got a call saying, don't

425
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: go see old man Bowen Camp. It's gonna be bad

426
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: news for you. He did it under cover by borrowing

427
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: a friends truck and going in that, but got a

428
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: call was like, hey, I knew that that was you

429
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: there within your friend's truck. Nice try and if you

430
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: do this again, I'm going to rape and murder your wife.

431
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the reverend, the local reverend, Reverend Lovejoy is

432
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: just told that his wife is going to be raped

433
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Speaker 1: and murdered.

434
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.

435
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: I didn't get what the point of that was, did you.

436
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: I didn't see any interpretation of that. I just saw

437
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: it explained or described. I never saw it explained.

438
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think just anyone sort of on the Bowen

439
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 2: camp side, because who knows, like the reverend could have

440
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: been called to testify or something.

441
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: Who knows, I got you.

442
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: That makes I think he was just trying to shut

443
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 3: it all down, kind of like with the town marshall.

444
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so the town Marshal nice setup. David Dunbar

445
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: was twenty four at the time, and if you were

446
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: tow Marshall of Skidmore, you not only had to call

447
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: the sheriff when there was an actual, real, real trouble

448
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: because you weren't really allowed to do anything. You had

449
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: to provide your own gun. The city would pay for

450
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: your ammunition, but you had to provide your own gun.

451
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: And David Dunbar was like, I don't even care about

452
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: this job. I took this job because I wanted to

453
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: win a bet that I had with my buddy for

454
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: a case of beer. And so in short order he

455
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: gets pulled into this whole thing by Ken McElroy who

456
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: pulls a gun on him, holds him at gunpoint. I

457
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: saw for like twenty minutes at the Punkin Festival.

458
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, not punkin Junkin.

459
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: No, the Punkin Festival or the Punkin show. That's what

460
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: I saw it as.

461
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they chunk in no punks, yes.

462
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: No, but David Dunbar. David Dunbar did say, like that's

463
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: it for me. Man, I really didn't care that much

464
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: about this job anyway. I'm not going to stand up

465
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: to Ken McElroy. You guys need to find yourself another

466
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: marshal and they said, fine, we will, and then they couldn't.

467
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: So the town was without a marshall even for a

468
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: little while.

469
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 3: They probably didn't need one.

470
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't sound like it was very effective

471
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: as positions go. And also the other thing I said,

472
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: they need to call the sheriff. I saw someone intimate

473
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: that the sheriff may not have either taken Ken McElroy

474
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: and the trouble he caused seriously, or he may have

475
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: been a friend or a sympathetic ally or something to

476
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: Ken McElroy, because apparently he was not super responsive to

477
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: Ken McElroy trouble calls.

478
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 2: You know, he was interviewed in this documentary. He certainly

479
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: didn't seem sympathetic. He might have been intimidated as well.

480
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's possible. I wouldn't blame him, frankly.

481
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 2: So this takes more than a year or I'm sorry,

482
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 2: close to a year to come to trial because of

483
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: all the delays that you know, McFadden, that's his game.

484
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: Finally it does and there's another green. Like almost everyone

485
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: in this story seems like they were like very young

486
00:26:59,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: at the time.

487
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

488
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: The prosecutor, his name was David Baird. He was a

489
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: super young attorney. He was the county prosecutor so named,

490
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: just a few months earlier, and all of a sudden,

491
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: this kid is charged with prosecuting the case. He convicted

492
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: him of second degree assault and sentenced him to two

493
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 2: years in jail. And this was the very first conviction

494
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: after this years long reign of terror on this town

495
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: that he faced. Of course, McFadden appealed. The judge said

496
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: you're out on forty thousand dollars bail, and Baird said, oh,

497
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: it sounds.

498
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 3: Fine to me. Yeah.

499
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: So like after shooting Bo Bo and Camp getting caught

500
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: by the highway patrol, he gets let out on forty

501
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: thousand dollars bond, which you probably paid his bail in

502
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: cash from his pocket. And the town was like, you

503
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: got to be kidding me, Like you let this guy free. Okay,

504
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: we will hang in there. We're just gonna ride this out.

505
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: And almost immediately Ken McRoy was like, how can I

506
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: get my bond revoked? I know, I'll go show up

507
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: at the local tavern in Skidmore, the D ANDNG Tavern,

508
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: and I'll bring an M one carbine rifle with bayonet

509
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: on me, and I'll talk about how I'm going to

510
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: use it to finish off bo Bowen Camp in front

511
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: of everybody in the bar. And that's exactly what he did.

512
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: And there just happened to be a couple of brave souls.

513
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: One of them was Pete Ward. I think it was

514
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: he and his sons who went and fought, like confronted

515
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: him about it and then went and filed the complaints,

516
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: said this guy needs his bond revoked, and a bond

517
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: hearing was set up ten days from then, and that

518
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: set up all of the machinations that were now going

519
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: to bring this story to its climax. Is it time

520
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: for ad break? Have we had our second one?

521
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: I mean, if that's not a perfect setup for ad break,

522
00:28:50,440 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: then we've never had one.

523
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: So I said that Ken McElroy has basically just brandished

524
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: an arm. He's walking around town talking about he's going

525
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: to finish off the guy he's been now convicted of assaulting,

526
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: but he's out on bail, and Pete Ward and his

527
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: sons go file a complaint and a bond hearing to

528
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: see if his bond should be revoked is set up

529
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: for ten days, and those ten days pass, and on

530
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: the tenth day, the day of his bond hearing, a

531
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: group of farmers around town who have just had it

532
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: up to here with Ken McElroy come to the American

533
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Legion Hall to basically go to court with Pete Ward

534
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: and Bobo and Camp and show solidarity but also show

535
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: that these guys are protected. You better not mess with them.

536
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

537
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, By most accounts, it was the adults in the

538
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: town were at this American Legion Hall meeting. I think

539
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: there were like a little over one hundred adults maybe

540
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: living there, and it seemed like eighty of them were

541
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: at this American Legion Hall meeting.

542
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot of people there.

543
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: So they find out there that McFadden had gotten that

544
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: hearing delayed, that bond hearing delayed for ten more days,

545
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: so instead of July tenth, it's going to be July twentieth.

546
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: They called the sheriff Danny EST's in that we talked

547
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: about and he basically said, you know, there's nothing that

548
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: we can do about it. And this is where I

549
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: think that maybe I don't think he was friendly to McElroy.

550
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: I think he was just a law about biting sheriff

551
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: that was like, you know, what do you want to do,

552
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: like go kill this guy in the street, Like, we

553
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: can't do that. All we can do is keep tabs

554
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: on this guy and you know, stick together. It is

555
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: probably a good idea. So they said, that's a great idea.

556
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: We should form a large group and stalk him, follow

557
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: him around. Their strengthen numbers if we get enough of

558
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: us together, Like what's this guy going to do?

559
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: Kill all of us? There are some people that were

560
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: at this.

561
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: Meeting that was like, you know, no one was talking

562
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: about doing anything more than that.

563
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: Other people said yeah. There were some people that were so.

564
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: You know, pissed off about all this that were like,

565
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: we need to take matters into our own hands, vigilanti style.

566
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: And they found out at this meeting that he's back

567
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: in town with his wife. They went to the tavern,

568
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: the DNG tavern still morning, mind you, they're in there

569
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: drinking and they all go down there. They walk in

570
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: there as a group and fill this tavern about fifty

571
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: to sixty people, and it's clear what's going on. McElroy

572
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: would not be intimidated. He did leave, but he apparently

573
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: just sort of thumbed his nose in their faces, bought

574
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: a six pack to go and was like, you know,

575
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: let's get out of here, Trina and walked out.

576
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this crowd was like, okay, I kind of

577
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: like this, following this guy around, watching his every step thing,

578
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: and they actually walked out of the bar with him,

579
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: and supposedly there was between thirty and sixty people. Some

580
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: people had cleared out. Romayne Henry, whom he'd shot in

581
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: the stomach before, said that he sensed that this crowd

582
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: was possibly out for blood, and he didn't want to

583
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: have anything to do with it, so he laughed. So

584
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: not everybody who was in the VFW Hall or the

585
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: American Legion Hall was in the parking lot of the

586
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: D ANDNG tavern, but a significant number of people were,

587
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: and they had Ken McElroy and Trina surrounded in Ken

588
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: McElroy's Silverado. Ken McElroy apparently had the car turned on

589
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: still had him park. He pulled out a cigarette and

590
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: I saw that he either had just lit it or

591
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: was about to light it when somebody shot him in

592
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: the head with a high powered hunting rifle and then

593
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: follow that up with a shot to the neck with

594
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: Trina right next to him, who is suddenly covered in

595
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: his blood.

596
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, through the back wind shield of the pickup truck,

597
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: I imagine instantly killed him with that first shot. His foot

598
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: slams on the gas and this thing is revving at.

599
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: Like full bore.

600
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: This old truck starts smoking and eventually blows the engine

601
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: and it just goes silent. Trina apparently urinated herself, was

602
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: initially told to stay in the car or she would

603
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: be killed two and then gets hustled out of this

604
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: truck into a nearby bank and a bunch of more

605
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: shooting happens until the shooting stops. It's about twenty seconds

606
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: worth of shooting. People go up peek in this truck.

607
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: Mclaroy is hunched over. No one helps the.

608
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: Guy at all, and in the end they.

609
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: Figure out he was hit by two different bullet types,

610
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 2: so two different guns had actually made contact with his body,

611
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: two different bullets, So.

612
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: You know.

613
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: In the documentary again, there were people that were like,

614
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: you know, five or six people shot him, three or

615
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: four people shot him. Like everyone sort of got their

616
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: own story. But as far as the you know, autopsy goes,

617
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 2: there were two different calibers of bullet.

618
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because here's the twist to this whole story. We

619
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: don't know. At the very least, the law can't say

620
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: who killed Kim McElroy. They were between thirty to sixty

621
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: people who were standing right there when he was killed

622
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: from several feet away, and no one saw a thing.

623
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: The town circled the wagons and clammed up to this day.

624
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the town fully cleared out right after that, and

625
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: like he was just sitting there alone in the middle

626
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: of town deadness truck. Apparently they went into some local

627
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: businesses in this One woman in the documentary said, we

628
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: were just sort of hanging out in there and someone

629
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 2: came in and said it's over. You can sleep tonight,

630
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: now just stand behind us.

631
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they did. Man, I mean they did the

632
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: law I saw. Depending on who you ask, the law

633
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: took this very seriously like any other murder, and investigated

634
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: and tried to prosecute it. Others are like Yeah, the

635
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: local law didn't try that hard because everybody knew that

636
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: this was actually justice, even though it was a grotesque

637
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: form of justice.

638
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

639
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: Either way, no one was ever prosecuted, No one was

640
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: even ever arrested or charged with the murder of Ken McElroy,

641
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: because not a single witness would crack. There was apparently

642
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: one witness who shortly after said that they saw a

643
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: man named Dell Clement and another man speed off very

644
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: quickly right after the shooting, and that person apparently said, oh,

645
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I was mistaken. That's the closest the cops

646
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: got to a witness statement about who may have shot

647
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: Ken McElroy. No one would say anything. Some people were

648
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: interviewed five to six times. Yeah, and no one cracked.

649
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: They would not crack. And yet whoever said that they

650
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: saw Deel Clement speed off was probably telling the truth.

651
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: Because Trina, Ken's wife, who by this time is twenty

652
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: four and looks a lot like somebody who would have

653
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: been friends with Eileen Warnos, it says that she turned

654
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: around right before the shooting started and saw very clearly

655
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: del Clement, owner co owner of the DNG tavern, taking

656
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: aim and shooting Ken McElroy in the head with his

657
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: deer rifle.

658
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was not only the owner of the tavern,

659
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: but he had a livestock that had been Pilford. Apparently

660
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: it was a big hothead, and I get the sense

661
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: took great pleasure in pulling that trigger, as the sense

662
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: I got.

663
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: There was a lady in.

664
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: The documentary and again this is the grain of salt,

665
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 2: that said that the main gun was thrown in a river.

666
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 3: So I was like, oh, very interesting. I hadn't heard

667
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 3: that anywhere else.

668
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: But she also said right after that she heard that

669
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 2: they had maclroy's head in a head somewhere and a

670
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: freezer thing. So they couldn't do like more I guess

671
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: bullet ballistics work or whatever.

672
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you couldn't find it because it was stolen by

673
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: a monkey.

674
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that happened.

675
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: There was another guy in there named Britt Small, and

676
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: I get the feeling they just kind of gathered up

677
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: whoever was still around and was like, you know, talk

678
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: to me. And Britt was a local guy, a Vietnam veteran,

679
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: who was like, you know what. The only mistake they

680
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: made is that they let Trina live. I would have

681
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: killed him in his driveway. I would have ambushed them both,

682
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: killed her and him and burned his house down.

683
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 3: That's what I would have done.

684
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: Well, she if you read the newspaper accounts, like immediately after,

685
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: the Kansas City Star had a couple of articles like

686
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: the week after, like she's scared to death or she

687
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: sounded scared to death that she was going to be

688
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: next or that her kids were going to be murdered.

689
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: And then of course the town's people that they interviewed

690
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: for the same article are like, no one wishes her

691
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: any ill, will right, you know, she's not in any danger.

692
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: But she swore that she was told to stay out

693
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: of Skidmore, doon't ever come back, or else she was

694
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: going to get it and her kids would be after that.

695
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: It's I don't know. It probably just depends on which

696
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: town person you talk to.

697
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean, both things can be true. They could have

698
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 2: felt like she was a victim, but also please leave.

699
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And apparently when she was hustled off to

700
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: the bank, whoever did that saved her life because even

701
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: if they hadn't have been aiming for she probably would

702
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: have gotten hit by a stray bullet. After that second

703
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: round but when she was hustled at the bank, there

704
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: was like a crowd, like you said to people there

705
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 1: that seemed to be just sitting there watching, like people

706
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: knew what was about to happen or what was going down.

707
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: And she said they didn't need to do him like that,

708
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: and someone said they had no choice. So even if

709
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: you didn't agree with that mob, justice that had taken place,

710
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: and you were a Skidmore resident, at the very least

711
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: you weren't about to turn on your you know, fellow townspeople.

712
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: Certainly not for the likes of somebody like Ken McElroy

713
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: or Trina.

714
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in the end, you know, they couldn't with

715
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: only Trina's word, there was nothing they could do that

716
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: young Prosecutor Baird and the FBI said, you know, this

717
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: is all we've got. We can't move forward. Everyone else

718
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: is saying they don't know what happened. The FBI closed

719
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: their investigation on September two, nineteen eighty two, And I

720
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: believe the shariff, I'm sorry, the police chief, Hal Riddle

721
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: was running the investigation and he said, you know, he

722
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: was really trying to get this case to go to

723
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: trial because he's he is a law enforcement officer, and

724
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: they weren't all like great mob justice, you know, they're like,

725
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: we we should have handled it to begin with, but

726
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: you certainly can't handle it this way. And he said

727
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: it was the most frustrating case of his career, and

728
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 2: basically like this town got away with murder.

729
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if the local law enforcement didn't work hard enough,

730
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: that was par for the course. Because if there was

731
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: any theme to this aside from this horrible bully, it

732
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: was the local institutions failing the community time after time

733
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: after time after time for any number of reasons because

734
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: they were intimidated because they were crup two no's. But

735
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: that was like the subtext of this whole thing is

736
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: that this community essentially had to take matters into their

737
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: own hands or else this guy was going to eventually

738
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: kill somebody, and they just decided that that was not

739
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: going to happen. They were going to stop it before

740
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: it happened. So it's tough to fault them for what

741
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: they did. Even though I don't agree with that, I

742
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: still I understand why they did it.

743
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 3: Well.

744
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: I think you cannot agree with mob justice and also

745
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: say the town of Skidmore in the world was probably

746
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: better off without this child rapist walking around.

747
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're right. I like your theories. I'm going

748
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: to subscribe to your newsletter.

749
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: So as for Clement, the supposed one of the supposed shooters,

750
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: he never said a thing about it. He died in

751
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. Trina in nineteen eighty five filed

752
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: a wrongful death civil case against the mayor, Clement, and

753
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: the sheriff for five million bucks, settled for seventeen thousand,

754
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 2: six hundred. The defendants didn't have to admit to any wrongdoing,

755
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: they just wanted it to go away. She got remarried

756
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: and a couple of years before that, in nineteen eighty three,

757
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: so two years after the killing, and she died in

758
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: twenty twelve. And you know, there was no mention of

759
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: that life of hers in her obituary. I think she

760
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: really put it behind her, and I hope at some point,

761
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, there are interviews with her. That's the one

762
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: interesting thing about the doc, Like not too long after

763
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: their interviews with Trina McLoud. I would hope that at

764
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: some point she realized that.

765
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: She was a victim.

766
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

767
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: I hope so too, and came to on that.

768
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: But who knows, because I mean, you you there's a there,

769
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of like grudging admiration you have

770
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: for at the very least. It's like, man, this girl

771
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: is so twisted. She was like a really ardent defendant

772
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: of her husband's reputation and honor and memory and like

773
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: really went would She was really like mad that they

774
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: had killed him.

775
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

776
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: One other detail I saw was that she offered a

777
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars reward for the for information about who

778
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: killed them. Somebody had come forward, but she didn't have

779
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. She was putting it up against the

780
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: movie rights. She presumed she would eventually be paid for.

781
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: Oh interesting.

782
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm not sure. I don't think anybody would

783
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: have take the five grand anyway, but certainly not a

784
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: phantom five grand that didn't actually exist yet.

785
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:07,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

786
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: As for the attorney, he was always like he was

787
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: never like, you know, I really regret representing that dirt bag.

788
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: He was pretty proud of his work.

789
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: He had a long career as a lobbyist working in

790
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: the legislature there in Missouri, and apparently would like buy

791
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: copies of McLean's book and have McLean sign them and

792
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: hand them out to all the delegates in the state Senate.

793
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 2: He died in twenty twelve, Like I said, very proud

794
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: of his work. And Stratton, the highway patrolman that we mentioned,

795
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: was the guy who in an interview said, you know

796
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: they did what they did because we didn't do our job,

797
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: and I think he felt forever bad that the law

798
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: enforcement had failed that town.

799
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also said in that same interview he knew

800
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: for sure who did it, and he was never going

801
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: to say.

802
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: I think it was Clement, I just don't know who

803
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: the second shooter was. The guy that says he would

804
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: have killed them both and burned their house down, claims

805
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: that he knew the second shooter, but he wouldn't say

806
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: it either.

807
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got anything else?

808
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: I got nothing else?

809
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: Quite a story, yeah, man, Yeah, thanks and thanks Olivia

810
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: for helping us with it. And since Chuck said good pick,

811
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: that means, of course it's time for a brand new

812
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: listener mail.

813
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: That's right.

814
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: This is a follow up on our what I thought

815
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: was a really good episode that I enjoyed on Kenton

816
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: Grua and the Grand Canyon River speed Record.

817
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 3: Great episode on that guys.

818
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 2: I read the book a few years ago, and to

819
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: answer a question you had about the eleven pm start time.

820
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: As I recall, you're correct in their desire to employ

821
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: the cover of darkness. There was also another, probably more

822
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: important issue that led to that decision. Per my recollection

823
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: of the book, it was the timing of when they

824
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: would run into the rapids where they eventually swamped the boat.

825
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: That was a stretch they had expected would be the

826
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: crux of the trip. Pointed out Kitting in his team

827
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: were tenured river rats who knew all the river like

828
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: the back of their hand. However, the unique dynamics of

829
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: the unprecedented CFS meant that they were uncertain of exactly

830
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: how fast they would be moving. By starting when they did,

831
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: they were able to more or less ensure that section

832
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: of the river where they flipped would be squarely in

833
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: the middle of the day. A good worst case scenario

834
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: and good pre planning.

835
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 3: And that's from Noah. That sounds like a very reasonable assertion.

836
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks a lot, Noah. I'm not going to challenge

837
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: him on it. Heck no, yeah, Okay. Well, if you

838
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: want to be like Noah and be like, hey, I

839
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: got you guys, you have a question, I'm in Noah,

840
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: then get in touch with us. Do it like Noah did.

841
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: Do everything like Noah did. Send us an email to

842
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

843
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

844
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

845
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen your favorite shows.

846
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: M