1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Holly Frye. So this this episode came about Sometimes when 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: I am trying to figure out what I'm going to 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: do next and I have not already formulated a plan, 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: I wind up in this state of looking at and 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: discarding idea after idea. Yeah, me too, And a lot 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: of the time it's like, I it sounds too similar 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: to something we literally just did, or I realize that 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: there's a like a book that I really need to 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: get and it's going to take me a while to get. 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: Like there's a bunch of different reasons that I go 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: through and discard stuff and I don't even remember. Oh 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: it was that I was looking at at a different 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: disaster that I've had on my list for a while, 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: and as I was looking at the basics of it, 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: I was just like, I can't figure out why we 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: would want to talk about this, because it just feels 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: like a really sad, tragic thing, but not something that 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: we could like learn something from or that has context 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: that's important. It just seems like a sad, tragic series 22 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: of events, So like, what is there a reason for 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: us to talk about this that doesn't feel like just gawking? 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: And so then I was like, what are some what 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: are some other disasters that maybe led to some improvements? 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: And I stumbled onto the Hawk's Nest Tunnel disaster uh 27 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: and got to the part about Muriel Rkeiser writing this 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: poem about it, and Ruchiser was one of my favorite 29 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: poets when I was in college. She's one of the 30 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: two poets that I did my thesis on in college. 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't think this was a part of her career 32 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: that I had really looked at a lot during that 33 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: period of my you know, education. But I was like, well, obviously, 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: and then maybe this will turn into an actual like 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: a Muriel ruck Isser episode. Maybe it will, maybe not, 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that is how I wound up 37 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: narrowed down onto this one episode. And then it turned 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: out to be so much worse than I expected, because 39 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: when I saw the description of workers digging this tunnel 40 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: and getting the silica exposure and dying of silicosis, in 41 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: my head, I thought this story was going to be 42 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: We didn't know yet that silicosis was that dangerous in fact, 43 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: we had known that for twenty years, and this was 44 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: just a flagrant disregard, Yeah, to the worth of all 45 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: of these people who were working in the tunnel. This 46 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,559 Speaker 1: episode made me so angry. We had to stop themself. 47 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: I got to the part about how especially the black workers' 48 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: bodies may have been buried, and the first place that 49 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: I found reference to possibly being placed along the river 50 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: bank like said this as authoritative fact, and I got 51 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: so upset about it. And I don't think it actually 52 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: helps that we don't that I know of, have substantiation 53 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: of whether that really did happen. People clearly believed sincerely 54 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: that that had happened, though, and it was what was 55 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: happening in that tunnel was so egregious that it doesn't 56 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: seem impossible that people's bodies could have been treated with 57 00:03:54,160 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: that kind of disrespect. Yeah, so angry, making so angry 58 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: making that's kind of what I have. Although you've made 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: me think about another thing, completely unrelated and much later 60 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: in talking about your senior thesis, because I was like, 61 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: we've never discussed what our like senior projects in college 62 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: were occurred to me maybe one day, Yeah, do you 63 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: want an earful of Samuel Beckett. I'm ready. I'm ready 64 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: if you want a very convoluted It was in hindsight, 65 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, why did you all let me graduate with 66 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: this thesis? Because it was on the work of Audrey 67 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: and Rich and Muriel Rockiser. But then I also had 68 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: this like weird pop psychology angle on It's it's embarrassing 69 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: in hindsight now, and I think there, with some guidance, 70 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: I might could have done something I would not be 71 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: embarrassed by. Now none of this matters. I mean it 72 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: might have mattered had I gone on to go to 73 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: graduate school in literature, which was my original plan. But like, 74 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: this is no longer a thing that has relevance to 75 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: my life for career. But occasionally I'm like, remember that 76 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: embarrassing thing he wrote? So you can graduate from college, 77 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: I mean that's what college is, right, Yeah, for sure. 78 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: I actually did two. So I did two tracks in 79 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: the literature department, and one was the literature track and 80 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: the other was the creative writing track. So I actually 81 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: had to do two theses to graduate, and one was 82 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: this paper that was on idterin Rich and Murau Rockeiser, 83 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: and the other was like a body of my own poetry. 84 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: Which I haven't looked back on in twenty five or 85 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: however many years. I bet that's also embarrassing. Mine was 86 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: a one person play because I was a theater major. 87 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: I like how you did that in song I did. 88 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: I was not a musical theater major. I was very 89 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: snooty about musical theater. Yeah. Yeah, I still am not 90 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: the biggest fan of musical theater, not because I don't 91 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: think it's worthy, but as we've pa we discussed before, 92 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't like to see the inside of people's mouths, 93 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: which happens, we're saying with great enthusiasm. Yeah, it's just 94 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: a weird one of many weird little quirks of my brain. 95 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: I feel very embarrassed and it's very awkward for There 96 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: are a couple of books about this disaster. One of 97 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: the books is called The Hawk's Nest Incident America's Worst 98 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: Industrial Disaster, and that was published in nineteen eighty six, 99 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: and I still feel like it's like the most authoritative 100 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: work about it. There's another book that's newer that is 101 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: more of a collection of like congressional testimony and things 102 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: like that. Like it's it's not a narrative as much. 103 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: There's it sort of brings together all these other resources. 104 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: Would you like to hear a one star Amazon review 105 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: of that other book? Yes. I was expecting an engineering 106 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: history in the same vein as David mcculluff's excellent books 107 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: in the Panama Canal and the Brooklyn Bridge. Instead, all 108 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: I got was newspaper clippings, court testimony, and endless government 109 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: documents all about silicosis, silicosis and more silicosis ad nauseum. 110 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Very disappointing. I returned to the book. I was like, Wow, 111 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: this person seems to have not understood the point of 112 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: and then the next paragraph is I spent my whole 113 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: career working as a control systems engineer for Union Carbide. 114 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: I never knew anyone who was not of the highest integrity. 115 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: Everything we did kept safety as a foremost concern. I 116 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: can't speak for the early thirties. This is a very 117 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: different country then, And I was like, were you personally 118 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: upset by Union Carbides' role in this disaster? Maybe? Anyway, 119 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: that was when I saw that. I was like, Wow, 120 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: this is one of the more fascinating one star Amazon reviews. 121 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: We talked about Billie Burke this week. YEP, I love 122 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: her wacky life. Yeah, I do. I here's a thing 123 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: I super like about her. She is very frank about 124 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: her marriage and that it was a mess and that 125 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: sometimes it made her very unhappy, but that at the 126 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, they really loved each other and 127 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: it was just like a good example of how a 128 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: thing that I know is easy for me to forget. Like, right, 129 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: everybody wants to judge everybody else's relationship, but nobody knows 130 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: except the people on the inside what it really is. 131 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: And so I just think she's a good example of 132 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: how you can have a marriage that people don't think 133 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: is right and still be like, no, that was still 134 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: the thing I was gonna do, which I just love. 135 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: She really really does speak very very lovingly about Florence 136 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: Ziegfeld Junior and how even though she recognized all of 137 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: his faults and that he did cheat on her many times, 138 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: she still saw a lot of good in him, which 139 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting, and she talks about him in ways 140 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: like that are really quite a brilliant and adoring and 141 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: I kind of loved them. One of the things she 142 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: talks about a lot is that he didn't know how 143 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: to do anything the small way, and how like he 144 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: would do things like, hey, I got you a gift, 145 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: and she would find out he had spent thirty five 146 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars on like a whole set of golden plates 147 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: and cutlery for her. How I'd be like, you're sending 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: those back and that the second he would then kind 149 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: of trade down to a more reasonable gift, but it 150 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: was always in really good taste, and she'd be like, 151 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: it took him some tries, but he always got there, 152 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: and there was a really One of the I will 153 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: read a couple of quotes from her because they're so cute. 154 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: One is when she talks about when he started to 155 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: have to wear glasses, and she wrote, when he was 156 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: about forty five, he began to wear reading glasses for 157 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: the first time in his life. He did this as 158 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: he did everything else. He wore more glasses than anybody 159 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: he had, I suppose fifty payers, which I love. The 160 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: other thing that I think really endeared him to her 161 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: forever was that he and her mom were like BFFs. 162 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: And she tells so many cute stories of them, like 163 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: cutting out and going to the movies together, or like, 164 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: oh nice. There's one story she has in her first 165 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: book about the two of them sitting out by the 166 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: pool and kind of like lovingly bickering over who has 167 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: prettier feet, and like how you know, as her mom 168 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: got ill, that he just doted on her and made 169 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: sure she had everything she could possibly need, and it's 170 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: it's really, really quite sweet. She also made this point 171 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: in her first book that really I had not realized, 172 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, Florence Ziegfeld Junior is attached to so many 173 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: people we have talked about on the show before, including 174 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: like Eugen Sandau and a lot of famous singers and 175 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: performers that came through vaudeville. But there's one section of 176 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: the book where she talks about how he was one 177 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: of the first people in the entertainment industry to recognize 178 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: the value of black performers and how he would not 179 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: only book them when other people would not, but he 180 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: was adamant that like this was the level playing field, 181 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: and they got booked into the same hotels when they 182 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: were touring. If a hotel wouldn't take them, they didn't 183 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: stay there. They got the same treatment backstage as everybody else. 184 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: Like he was really really adamant, and to her that 185 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: was like one of those mitigating things that made the 186 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: uglier parts of his personality a little bit easy for 187 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: her to ignore because she respected him so much. It's 188 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: very very sweet. There's a very sad part of her, 189 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: you know, final moments with him after he had died. 190 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: She had been on set doing a screen test when 191 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: she got the call that was like come home right now, 192 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: and she did, and she realized when she got there 193 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: she had not changed and she was in a dress 194 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: that she had been sewn into for this screen test 195 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: and she can get out of it. So she was 196 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: kind of like freaking out with grief and had to 197 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: be cut out of her clothes because she didn't have 198 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: a zipper. And it's like this heartbreaking moment where you're like, 199 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: that's the last thing you need to worry about when 200 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: you are grieving the person that, for better or for worse, 201 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: was the love of your life. She also tells a 202 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: story in her book to Go to. She has many 203 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: cute stories. One that is not cute is that she 204 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: is also very frank about how she's a little cagey 205 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: about the language. So I don't know if anything inappropriate 206 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: ever actually happened, but about how freely men were willing 207 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: to make advances on her when she was a teenager 208 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: in London. Oh wow, And how like that kind of 209 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: just came with the territory of being an entertainment and 210 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: it's like she kind of glosses through it. And I'm like, 211 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: is this her way of like compartmentalizing that or did 212 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: she manage to sidestep it to a point where she 213 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: can acknowledge it and move on? And I don't know, 214 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: but it was just one of those things that made 215 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: me go, man, here's a bad thing she did as 216 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: a teenage performer. Okay, she and one of the other 217 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: teenagers in that first show where she became very, very popular, 218 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: the schoolgirl would do this thing as they were leaving stage. 219 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: They would step out of their shoes and leave them 220 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: on the stage so other performers would trip on them 221 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: because you know, it's hilarious, which is awful, but she 222 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: was a teenager and need an entertainment. She also tells 223 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: a hilarious story about Missus Patrick Campbell, who we have 224 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: talked about. Yeah, yeah, we did, because Missus Patrick Campbell 225 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: also worked with Charles Frohman, and she says at one 226 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: point Froeman gave her gave Missus Campbell a note and 227 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: apparently she did not enjoy notes, and Missus Patrick Campbell replied, 228 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: pardon me, mister Frohman, but you forget that I am 229 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: an artist. And his response was, Missus Campbell, I'll keep 230 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: your secret, which is like the best whammo of all time. 231 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: I also really like the fact that there is a 232 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: creator on Mercury named for her. When that's We're All 233 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: and My Billy Burke a brilliance. Yeah, she Syman in space, 234 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: she's pretty fun. Glinda the Goodwitch iconic forever. Yeah. So 235 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: we talk about how she looks younger than fifty six 236 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: in that movie, like she was fifty four. I don't 237 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: know what, I don't know why, fifties. Yeah, And so 238 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: I went and watched a clip from it because in 239 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: my mind, Glinda the Goodwitch is like ethereally flawless almost, 240 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: and knowing how old she actually was when she filmed it, 241 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: she looks older on than I remembered in my memory, right, 242 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: so still looking very young, but not as like ethereally 243 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: young as the memory. That's right, My mind made of 244 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: what Glinda the Goodwitch looks like. If that makes sense. 245 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: It does. So there's an interesting thing about that and 246 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: I didn't mention it in the episode proper because I 247 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: didn't want it to become a whole other topic. But 248 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning. One of the ways that that film 249 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: and how young she looks in it is often written 250 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: up is that, oh, she was actually eighteen years older 251 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: than Margaret Hamilton, who looks like a horrible hag. And 252 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: it's like, wait, wait, wait, one, don't compare people to 253 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: each other too. Margaret Hamilton was in a ton of makeup, like, 254 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: you can't do that. She literally like witch makeup on, 255 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: whereas Billy Burke was made to look glamorous and beautiful. 256 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: That's not a fair comparison, right. I also was curs 257 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: I was like, how how much did you keep the 258 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: sun off your face? I think probably a lot, Probably 259 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: a lot, because that will make a big difference in 260 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: how old folks look a lot of the time. Yes, yes, 261 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: And it's interesting. She talked about how, you know, they 262 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: certainly wore makeup for film, but she didn't like to 263 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: wear a lot of makeup in day to day life, 264 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, unless she was doing a stage show, and 265 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: that it was kind of like tawdry for women to 266 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: wear makeup in the time, right, certainly the levels of 267 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: makeup we wear now not everyone, but yeah, like a 268 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: level I wear is none right makeup, it's a level 269 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: little glitter, A love A little glitter would be just 270 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: you know who? That the worst insult. She mentions that 271 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: you could give someone as oh she paints and oh yeah, 272 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: And I'm like with Jesso. Yeah, she's really fun. I 273 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: really do. If you just want like and I want 274 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: to say it's a light read because she's talking about 275 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: heavy stuff. She's talking about infidelity and marital issues and 276 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: problems that are going on. But her tone, and granted 277 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: some of that is her co writer, is so good, 278 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: and you really get the sense that she was like 279 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: a person who I mean, they went through rough stuff 280 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: aside from any issues between them, like the fact that 281 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: they lost everything after leading this very lavish lifestyle, and 282 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: she's like, all right, I'll just go back to movies. 283 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: That's fine, and rebuilt really a wonderful career for herself. 284 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: She just seems like a trooper. Just funny when you 285 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: consider she did not want to go into acting initially. 286 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, fascinating, fascinating. Billy Burke, I want to watch 287 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz again. Love it. Yeah, I mean I haven't. 288 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in many years. But it was 289 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: a favorite favorite when I was little. Oh love it, 290 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: love it. Granted. You know, there's a whole other depressing 291 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: story about Judy Garland, sure, that whole thing. Margaret Hamilton, 292 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: though favorite for a long time. Did you ever see 293 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: the Mister Rogers that she was on? I think so 294 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: where she brought her I don't know if it was 295 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: her original witch hat from the movie or if he 296 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: had one, I can't remember, but they put it on 297 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: and it was just the cutest, like her talking about 298 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: being in the movie. And you know that movie has 299 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: I think launched many many's people, many many people's imaginations. 300 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: So near and dear to my heart. Anyway, Billy Burke, 301 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: I'll talk about her forever if you let me. Don't 302 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: let me. There are other things to talk about. But 303 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: we hope if this is your weekend coming up, you 304 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: get to either watch a movie you love or do 305 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: something that you love or that relaxes you. If you 306 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: don't have time off, I still hope you wedge in 307 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: some fun. I will probably be watching Who with your 308 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: device while I work on other stuff. I'm very easily impressionable. 309 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: We hope that you are having the best possible year 310 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: you can. We will be right back here tomorrow with 311 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: a classic, and then on Monday there'll be another brand 312 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: new episode. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 313 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 314 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 315 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: favorite shows.