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Speaker 1: Always good to talk NFL Draft when we're at the

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Speaker 1: combine with what I think is a elite because we

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Speaker 1: always talking about prospects. Elite draft insider that being Dane

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Speaker 1: Brugler from The Athletic I'm Matt Taylor with JJ Stangovitz,

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Speaker 1: who's also elite from Colts dot Com. Check out his word.

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Speaker 1: Come on now, thank you, give you pub yourself up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, JJ, But Dane, appreciate your time. Short

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Speaker 1: drive over from Ohio to Indianapolis. Welcome back after a

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Speaker 1: year off. Very very missed that, very much missed Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: last year, so it is awesome to be back here

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Speaker 1: for a full week. And yeah, you know, there's got

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Speaker 1: to hit all the spots, you know, I gotta make

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Speaker 1: sure of checking off all right, got this restaurant done?

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Speaker 1: Head over here? Where have you been so far? Elmo's?

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Speaker 1: That was that was the first stop you had to

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Speaker 1: get the Cowboy rib Um. It's fantastic. I know it's

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Speaker 1: kind of cliche for every you know, media member too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you did it on the first night and you

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Speaker 1: knocked it out. Yeah, right exactly. So I mean it's

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Speaker 1: probably because it's the only time I could get a reservation.

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Speaker 1: But that's got Harry and Izzy's tonight, so you know,

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Speaker 1: same kitchen, right, So sister, sister station if you will. Yep.

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Speaker 1: So I got a few more places on the docket

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Speaker 1: that need a hit before I leave. But now I

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Speaker 1: really enjoy Indianapolis. It's this is my favorite week of

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Speaker 1: the year because of not only what we learn with

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Speaker 1: the combine and everything, but just the opportunity to come

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Speaker 1: to the city. And I learn more at night than

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Speaker 1: I do turn the day here because of all the

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Speaker 1: things going around the city. The NFL comes in, takes

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Speaker 1: over so many, so many things to pick up and learn. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just a great week. Can that exist if

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Speaker 1: you move this thing somewhere else proximity wise? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you still have that by being multiple places at

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Speaker 1: different times if you will seemingly seemingly like you can

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Speaker 1: do here. I have my strong reservations, strong doubts. Um.

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Speaker 1: It just it's just a perfect setup here, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean with the stadium the way it is, and

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Speaker 1: the medicals the way it is, and um and then

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned, just the nightlife with U the city

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Speaker 1: and how how everything's just centralized. Um. If yeah, you

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Speaker 1: moved this to LA. You moved this to uh Dallas area,

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Speaker 1: North Texas. Whether it's in Frisco or Arlington, wherever, it's

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Speaker 1: just it won't be the same. And and it's this

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Speaker 1: isn't just a you know, a media person saying this.

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Speaker 1: This is what when I talked to teams about it,

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Speaker 1: that's they're they're not excited about it. You know, scouts

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Speaker 1: and and and the you know, the people on the

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Speaker 1: ground doing the work that got enough to think about. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's just a not to mention

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Speaker 1: centrally located in the country. So it's just an easy

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Speaker 1: thing for everyone to come to as opposed to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone from the East Coast going to California

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Speaker 1: for the combine and all that. So yeah, holding out

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Speaker 1: hope that this is you know, we'll be here next year.

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Speaker 1: So Dan, you mentioned a lot of the the info

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Speaker 1: you get comes, you know, probably after five PM hour.

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Speaker 1: I'm someone who I've relied on the Beast for years

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Speaker 1: to cover the draft. I mean, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: cults draft. Uh, you know Will Fries in the seventh

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Speaker 1: round last year, and I'm I'm googling, I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: searching his name in the beast because it is such

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Speaker 1: an incredible resource. How much of what goes into that

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Speaker 1: do you pick up here at the combine? Not just

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Speaker 1: from all right, he did this in testing or that,

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Speaker 1: but just from the conversations you're having with folks around

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Speaker 1: the league, with you know, front office members, scouts, that

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Speaker 1: type of stuff, and the bars and restaurants of Indianapolis.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's I mean, all the Hayes in the barn.

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Speaker 1: You know, in terms of the evaluations, we know who

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Speaker 1: these players are, we know their strengths, we know their weaknesses,

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Speaker 1: we know what they can add. But the combine helps

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Speaker 1: add context, you know, fills in those gaps. You know,

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Speaker 1: you learn more about these guys as people. You know,

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Speaker 1: the testing matters because it just getting getting that data

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Speaker 1: helps for comparison purposes. It helps for um, you know,

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Speaker 1: with you watch a linebacker and you know it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like gets that much range, But then he

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Speaker 1: comes to the combine and runs a four six two,

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Speaker 1: and well that's pretty fast, and what am I missing?

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Speaker 1: Find out a hamstring injury in the you know, first

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Speaker 1: three games that I watched on tape. Okay, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden that so this is a cross checking exercise.

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Speaker 1: It helps, uh confirm what you saw on tape, is

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Speaker 1: you know they're that type of athlete, they're that type

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Speaker 1: of player. Um. But then also what you do here

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Speaker 1: from teams in terms of uh, maybe injury stuff, in

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Speaker 1: terms of stuff behind the scenes that you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: you just didn't know at this point. So it's an

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Speaker 1: invaluable week for me for the draft guide to kind

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Speaker 1: of round it out, fill in some of those gaps

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know best. The purpose of the draft

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Speaker 1: guide is to paint a picture of who each one

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Speaker 1: of these players, who who they are? And I cannot

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Speaker 1: do that without the combine and all the information here.

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Speaker 1: Quarterbacks has always talked about this time of year. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of teams have moved up to grab quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: Do you see that happening? I mean, are these is

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Speaker 1: this crop of quarterbacks worthy of teams giving up a

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Speaker 1: lot in order to grab a guy that they make

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Speaker 1: of it? Here? How how blunt should I mean the

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Speaker 1: simple answers. No, it's just non time you're allowed to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's last year we had five quarterbacks go top fifteen, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: top fifteen. This year we shouldn't have any quarterbacks go

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Speaker 1: top fifteen. But will we maybe, Yeah, it's certainly possible.

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Speaker 1: I think the over under I would set at ten.

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Speaker 1: You know, do we see a quarter quarterback go before

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Speaker 1: ten or or right after? Beauty is in the eye

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Speaker 1: of the beholder, and it's so so true with these quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: You know, the team will look at Kenny Pickett and

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Speaker 1: see low ceiling guy, like he's never gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to lead you to the playoffs and lead you to

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Speaker 1: the super Bowl. Another team will be like, hey, he's

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Speaker 1: gonna he gonna help us win nine ten games a year.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna keep us in it. He's gonna give us

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Speaker 1: a chance. So teams are gonna look at these quarterbacks differently.

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Speaker 1: Malik Willis has the highest ceiling, and you think about

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Speaker 1: where he could be three four years from now, and

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Speaker 1: you think, okay, we'll bet on that. You know, if

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Speaker 1: that's someone we're willing to bet on him will Another

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Speaker 1: team looks at him and says, too much risk there.

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Speaker 1: So the way teams look at and every team will

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Speaker 1: look at these quarterbacks differently because they're some are more

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Speaker 1: risk adverse than others. Some are more willing to roll

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Speaker 1: the dice and see what would you have with him? So, uh,

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks in the first round this year way too rich

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Speaker 1: for me. But I can carry into you there will

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Speaker 1: be some teams that disagree. What do you think of

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Speaker 1: the quarterbacks last year in the rookie seasons? Anybody let

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Speaker 1: you down or maybe the other way surprise you a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I mean I thought all five of those

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Speaker 1: first rounders were awesome. Um, you know, it's it's tough

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Speaker 1: when you're a rookie quarterback. So even Trevor Lawrence with

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Speaker 1: all those expectations being a number one overall pick being

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Speaker 1: labeled generational since he showed up at Clemson, Uh it

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Speaker 1: was you know, all the interceptions he threw was not

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Speaker 1: a you know, you just look at the box score

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Speaker 1: and you're kind of like, Okay, well this guy had

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Speaker 1: had a terrible season. But he showed plenty of good

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Speaker 1: things too, and that's what you want to see progress.

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Speaker 1: And the Jaguars roster isn't exactly set up to, you know,

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Speaker 1: for success right now. So uh, you know, I thought

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Speaker 1: the rookies last year showed progress, showed what you want

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Speaker 1: to see. Zach Wilson doesn't need to be better near

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Speaker 1: two absolutely, justin fields when you talk about having a

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Speaker 1: new coaching staff, how is that going to factor? Hint?

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Speaker 1: His his developed meant they're a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: wild card there. Uh. And then and mac Jones, how

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Speaker 1: much better can he be? You know why? We felt

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Speaker 1: like he was the high floor guy last year, so

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Speaker 1: he was ready to come in and compete. But how

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Speaker 1: much better can he beat? Can he you know, can

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Speaker 1: he expand that ceiling? And then I even throw Davis

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Speaker 1: Mills in there. I thought he was he was my

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Speaker 1: six quarterback last year. I though there were six quarterbacks

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Speaker 1: in last year's draft who would be starters. Davis Mills

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Speaker 1: I think it was the eighth quarterback drafted maybe, And

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Speaker 1: I thought the Texans had got a good pick there,

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Speaker 1: and the way he finished last year, they got good

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Speaker 1: value with him. So talking about this quarterback draft class

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen is kind of the barometer for a bad

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Speaker 1: quarterback draft class, where you know, are you looking at EJ.

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Speaker 1: Manuel in the first round, Gino Smith in the second round,

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Speaker 1: Mike Glennon in the third round, and then you know

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Speaker 1: Matt Barkley, Ryan Naste, Tyler Wilson, and Landry Jones in

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Speaker 1: the fourth round and of those guys Gino Smith, Mike Glennon,

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Speaker 1: and Matt Parkley are still in the NFL in some capacity.

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Speaker 1: How does how do I, as you're evaluating this class,

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Speaker 1: how does it compare to twenty thirteen? I think it's

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Speaker 1: better than twenty thirteen because EJ. Manuel is a fourth

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Speaker 1: rounder who was taken in the first you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not his fault. He was a first round bust because

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Speaker 1: he wasn't a first round quarterback, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: Bills just kind of reached on him there. But I

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Speaker 1: think this quarterback class, there's it's a better group. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think that while it's hard to have any conviction

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Speaker 1: that any of these quarterbacks this year will ever be

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Speaker 1: top fifteen quarterbacks in the NFL, I think it's I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you could possibly have any conviction in

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Speaker 1: that they at least have talent to start in this league.

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Speaker 1: Where you look at that group of you know, Barkley

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Speaker 1: and Nassim and Gino and those guys, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: be optimistic about who they were pre draft and then

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Speaker 1: after just none of them came out as reliable starters.

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Speaker 1: Where this year, I think you can see Kenny Pickets

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Speaker 1: should be a reliable starter in this league. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: is he going to be a guy that consistently helps

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Speaker 1: you in a division? Time will tell, But I think

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Speaker 1: he can at least help keep you competitive. Malique Willis

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Speaker 1: when he grows and learns Corral same thing. Uh deal.

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Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter has enough talent to start in this league.

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Speaker 1: So I think that while this draft lacks the guys

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Speaker 1: at the top that gets you really jazz, gets you

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Speaker 1: really excited, there's at least a group of quarterbacks that

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Speaker 1: you can foresee a path where they end up as

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Speaker 1: solid starters at the next level. The wide receiver group

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Speaker 1: once again pretty solid. A lot of depth there. With

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Speaker 1: that being said, you know, the Colts don't have a

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Speaker 1: first round pick and they're looking for, you know, important

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Speaker 1: positions of need to fill on their roster like cornerback,

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Speaker 1: wide receiver, left tackle. Given the fact that the wide

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Speaker 1: receiver depth is once again pretty deep, can they don't

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Speaker 1: I hate to use the word, you know, gloss over

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Speaker 1: wide receiver in the second round, but can they wait

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Speaker 1: on wide receiver and still get a pretty good player

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Speaker 1: if they don't pick one up on the with their

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Speaker 1: first pick and round two? I think so? I mean

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Speaker 1: you go back the last few years and look at

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Speaker 1: the receivers that have been drafted on Day two. They've

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Speaker 1: been some pretty good ones. You know, two years ago,

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Speaker 1: Te Higgins second round pick. You know, you could do

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Speaker 1: that almost every year. So I think there will be

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Speaker 1: talent on Day two at the receiver position. I think

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Speaker 1: it's the little top heavy um at the top six

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Speaker 1: receivers uh in this draft, I think are all twenty

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Speaker 1: top twenty five picks UM and then a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a drop off. But there is definitely talent on

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Speaker 1: Day two. I think it'll be interesting to see what

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Speaker 1: type of receiver this team might draft and go after,

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Speaker 1: because you've got a guy like, you know, Bell from Purdue,

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Speaker 1: who is, to me, very similar to what you already

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Speaker 1: have with Michael Pittman. You know, he's that type of

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Speaker 1: that type of receiver, And so do you want another

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Speaker 1: one of those or do you want to go with

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Speaker 1: you know, I gotta gives you something a little different,

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Speaker 1: like a sky More from Western Michigan, John Mechi from

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Speaker 1: Alabama who a little bit of a discount sticker on

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Speaker 1: him because he's working his way back from that ACL

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Speaker 1: but he's a good player. So this wide receiver class.

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Speaker 1: I think that the strength of the receivers are in

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Speaker 1: the early in the in the first round top twenty five.

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Speaker 1: But there's definitely some talent on Day two with uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, throwing Watson for North North Dakota State in there. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know there there are guys that you can foresee

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Speaker 1: being reliable starters and a couple of guys that could

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Speaker 1: help this team pretty quickly. Dan, I'm curious as you

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Speaker 1: go about evaluating these prospects and doing you know, your

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Speaker 1: mock drafts right every now and then, how much stock

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Speaker 1: do you put into not only your own evaluation, but

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Speaker 1: when you mock a player to the Colts knowing the

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Speaker 1: profile player that Chris Ballard in the front office has taken,

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Speaker 1: and kind of the follow up there is what do

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Speaker 1: you see that profile? It's being Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's important when you do mock drafts. It's not as

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Speaker 1: simple as oh, they need a you know, an offensive linement,

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Speaker 1: so let's just plug the next best offensive linement, right

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Speaker 1: like that's just there you go, not how it works.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's real thought that needs to go behind

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Speaker 1: it in terms of uh, and there's a lot of criteria. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, some teams prefer underclassmen to seniors, you know,

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Speaker 1: or age matters to them. Some teams prefer guys that

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Speaker 1: test really well. They want the top tier athletes and

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Speaker 1: they know they'll figure out the rest. So with the Colts,

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Speaker 1: and you know, with Chris Ballard, I think obviously we

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Speaker 1: know how much you believe he's in building on the

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Speaker 1: offensive defensive lines. You know that that's a big deal

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Speaker 1: for him, that that's something that is a core principle

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Speaker 1: of his beliefs as a general manager. And that's something

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Speaker 1: I had a chance to be around Chris for a

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Speaker 1: little bit there in Kansas City, and I had learned

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Speaker 1: that pretty quickly from him, was how much that matters

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Speaker 1: to him. And so I think it would not be

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Speaker 1: a surprise if we see the Colts go offensive line

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Speaker 1: early defense even defensive line, even though they went defensive

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Speaker 1: line heavy in first two rounds last year. I think

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Speaker 1: it's certainly possible because there's no such thing as having

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Speaker 1: too much depth a front the trenches. So now I

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Speaker 1: think Chris will be one of the first to tell

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Speaker 1: you how. You know, as a decision maker, just like

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Speaker 1: as a as a player, you have to evolve, you know,

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Speaker 1: based off of things that have gone right and things

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Speaker 1: that have gone wrong in the past, and so h

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Speaker 1: could we see them attack the receiver position in the

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Speaker 1: second round. Could we see them, uh, maybe go in

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Speaker 1: a different direction. So yeah, I think with the Colts

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Speaker 1: are with the quarterback situation, and it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: really they're at a crossrooms and they've got they've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things they can address. Um, So

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's as easy as all. They're definitely

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Speaker 1: going offensive line here, Definitely. They can go in so

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Speaker 1: many different directions. And it'll from free agency to any

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Speaker 1: trades they make to the draft. It'll be really interesting

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Speaker 1: offseason for the Colts. Dane. As we sit here and

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Speaker 1: talk right now, Jack Doyle still no word on whether

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Speaker 1: or not he's coming back with retirement thoughts mo Ali

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Speaker 1: Cox is a free agent guy you talked about last

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Speaker 1: year when we had you know, you talked about Kyl

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Speaker 1: and Granson at of SMU just wrapped up his rookie season.

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Speaker 1: What about tight ends? Any guys that intrigue you for

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Speaker 1: the Colts later in the draft, maybe Day two, Day three.

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Speaker 1: This is a great year if you if you're going

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Speaker 1: to target a tight end and say that you have

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Speaker 1: that third to fifth round range because this is a

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Speaker 1: it's a deep, deep tight end group. But still I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's a first rounder in this mix. I'm

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Speaker 1: not even sure there's a top fifty guy in this mix. Now,

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Speaker 1: maybe a Trey mcbright sneaks in there, a Greg Dulsitch

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Speaker 1: from UCLA. But I think if you wait until fourth round,

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Speaker 1: you are getting you're gonna get a pretty good tight

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Speaker 1: end in that range. UM. And so if you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't think Jeremy Rucker from Ohio State

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Speaker 1: falls out far. But with his foot injury, you never know.

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Speaker 1: That's possible. Um. But it's a position that that'll stretch. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so I think if if you want a guy

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Speaker 1: that can help you as a blocker, a guy that's

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Speaker 1: going to help you as a pass catcher, there are

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Speaker 1: several names to keep on the radar at that position

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Speaker 1: this year. The another position that, um, you know I heard,

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Speaker 1: you know when you were talking with Lanes Zeroline on

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Speaker 1: your podcast on the Athletic uh you know Football show

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Speaker 1: in your draft podcast that is deepest defensive line and

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Speaker 1: you know the defensive end edge rushing position this year,

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Speaker 1: last year, it seemed like the narrative around that position

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Speaker 1: was that there was not as much depth potentially in

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Speaker 1: that What about this year's class tells you you might

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Speaker 1: be able to find a guy who can get after

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Speaker 1: the quarterback in Day two or Day three of this draft. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ede rusher in my opinion, is by far the best

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Speaker 1: position this year. And I think it's the only position

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Speaker 1: that you can look at and say, at every point

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Speaker 1: in the draft, I feel good about the guy I

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Speaker 1: could possibly draft, you know, so, first round, second round,

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Speaker 1: there all through the draft, I think you could feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable about the guy you're gonna get. And it's gonna

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Speaker 1: start early with Hutchinson, Thibadeau, Travon Walker. Those guys are

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Speaker 1: going to go early throwing, David a Jabo and Jermaine Johnson.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna see pass rushers off the board very quickly.

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Speaker 1: But it will stretch out, you know, and when guys

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Speaker 1: like Logan Hall from Houston, Arnold Ebichetti from Penn State,

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Speaker 1: those guys will be available in the second round and

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Speaker 1: be you know, steals at that point. So pass rusher,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, it starts there. That's where the depth

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Speaker 1: is in this draft. Is where the most talent is

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Speaker 1: in this draft. I was working on my top one

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Speaker 1: hundred and I like trying to figure out all these

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Speaker 1: defensive ends that I want to include in there, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, all right, there's fifteen of them. No, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: there's twenty of them. I'm twenty two, twenty three. It's

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Speaker 1: by far the most well represented position in my top

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Speaker 1: one hundred, and there were a few guys that I

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Speaker 1: hated leaving out. So yeah, it's it's the best position

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Speaker 1: this year. And a team like the Colts that went

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Speaker 1: defensive line heavy early, they can afford to way to

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Speaker 1: the third round, fourth round still feel pretty good about

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Speaker 1: pass rusher if that's a direction they want to go.

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Speaker 1: It's Dane Brugler, NFL draft analysts for the Athletic. Follow

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Speaker 1: him on Twitter online a heavy follow at dp Brugler

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty four thousand. People have already figured

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Speaker 1: out this guy's pretty good at his job and he

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Speaker 1: knows what he's talking about when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: NFL Draft. Dane, pub up the Beast one more time

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Speaker 1: and what you're writing about, what you're working on as

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Speaker 1: far as the draft on the Athletic, all you need

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Speaker 1: is a subscription to The Athletic and you get you

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Speaker 1: get the Draft Guy as part of your subscription. Nick

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Speaker 1: hopefully the first week in April. That's the goal. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're under a month now, so I'm feeling why are

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Speaker 1: you talking to us that I gotta go guys all right,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's I've never had someone come up

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Speaker 1: to me and say, you know what, there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: enough information. Yeah, So trust me, if you like the draft,

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Speaker 1: you will not be disappointed by the level of detail

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Speaker 1: and information in the guide. Like I said, the only

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Speaker 1: reason why I know how to cover the draft is

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Speaker 1: because of the Beast. And the only reason why I

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Speaker 1: can sound sound by smart about the draft is because

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Speaker 1: I listened to the podcast you and Lanzerline do so

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Speaker 1: I appreciate this very well at this stage in the year.

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Speaker 1: That's that's how I'm picking it up. So thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining us here, Dane. That's awesome. Many time, Guess