WEBVTT - Ep. 4: John Dudley 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:06.560 Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number four of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:12.200 I am been O'Brien coming to you from a table 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.720 at my house in Austin, Texas with a beer in 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.800 hand and a phone in front of me. Today we 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:23.119 are calling the great and powerful, the one and only 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.240 John Dudley. I wish John was here. He was supposed 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.760 to be here, but he couldn't. At the last minute. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.720 Something came up, so I just gave him a call 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.919 and we did it that way. Why should you want 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.639 to listen to John Dudley, Well, the reasons are many. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:46.080 John is a technical expert in archery. He's an accomplished 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.319 pro in target in the target world. He's the top 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.080 level coach internationally, and he's one of the best bon 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.280 hunters you'll ever meet. Beyond that, he's just a good guy. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.120 He's somebody you could have a beer with, Somebody you 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.120 can shoot hoops with, Somebody you can hang out of 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.680 the back porch and just laugh your ass off. He's 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.320 one of my favorite people in the industry, along with 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.360 his wife Sharon, his son Little dud I mean, the 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.679 whole family is somebody you want to meet, you want 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:18.560 to run into at a party, So I think that's 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.919 always important. I think those things are are sometimes lost 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.960 in these types of podcasts. But John Dudley is my friend. 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.600 I love him and I hope you love him too. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.199 Unfortunately for you guys, we didn't talk too much about 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.760 the technical specs of archery. We talked about values and 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.200 influence and our roles in the industry and outside of 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.959 the industry, and of course the grand conversation of the 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.640 Grip and Gran. So hopefully you enjoy episode number four. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.920 Here's John Dudley. John Dudley, what's happening? What are you doing? Man? 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:59.840 I am dedicating time and energy to what matters, and 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.120 that is the thing collective. Oh my gosh, he said 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.200 the name. He said the name of the podcast right 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.640 off the bat. That's a win. That's already a win. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.560 A couple of these podcasts. I have asked the guests 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.840 to describe where we are, but unfortunately we are not together. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.520 I am in a room at my house with a bar, 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.440 drinking a corona. You are at your home in Iowa 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:29.840 in a bar in a bar. Yes, yes, I literally 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.560 just it was almost like a game of operations, but 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:41.280 I put three bar chunk of ice cubes into my 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:47.200 heady without making a noise. So I'm pretty sure I 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.520 get to go to level two for being able to 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.679 do this. You're you're already on level two for sure, well, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.880 at least in the in the in the general sense, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.160 we're in the same place that which is a place 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.680 with beer here late at night on a Monday evening 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.400 that I like, I would much rather be with you 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:11.720 in Iowa. But in the absence of that, this will do. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.960 I appreciate it. I told you before we started recording 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.560 that I wanted to ask you some tough questions, um, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:25.400 and so let's do that. I think, Um, my experience 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.560 in bow hunting has been pretty pretty gnarly. I mean, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.720 I've had more failures than I can count, both when 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.120 I was a kid and then coming into my more 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:37.880 formative years, and then even since you and I have 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.520 been working together, since you been showing me what how 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.360 really it is done, I've had more failures than I 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.560 can think of, both in the backyard and then while 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.520 hunting and then over the place. And so it always 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.360 strikes me that, you know, bow hunting for the US 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.920 regular focus is like a game of failure, Like you're 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.920 just trying to mitigate the amount of failure that you have, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.240 UM and so, and I don't know that I've you know, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.120 I've had a lot of people say about social media 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.560 and our hunting industry that we don't highlight that failure 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.720 quite enough. UM. So, I guess my first question is, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.120 did you agree with that that we don't highlight the 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.960 failures enough or is there a better way to subscribe 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.359 to that idea? Dang, dude, that's this cool question. I 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.880 actually really appreciate that one. Um. I appreciate it. Martin. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:34.320 Probably what you would I would know, because one of 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:39.320 the things that I really disliked about being on TV 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:50.960 was the parameters that the TV network put around certain 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:59.560 people that change there beliefs and outlooks on the whole 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:05.599 hunting community. And I really felt like a lot of 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.799 the things that I believed in some of the values, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.279 and then also I don't know, just some of the 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.120 things that I felt like I was most passionate about 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:24.080 in relation to not only hunting, but also just being 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.640 a a bow hunter and an archer. I actually had 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:35.960 to change those because it was part of the guidelines 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:42.560 to being on a network, and over the course of 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:47.760 the six years that I was on, they slowly like 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:52.000 kind of bent rules, Like you know, they told me, what, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.040 you can't do an educational segment for three full minutes. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.240 That's too long. And then it got to the point 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.160 where it's like, wow, many more educational segments can you do? 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:07.200 And it was also like, well, we can't have a 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.640 show that doesn't show success or you can't show a 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:17.400 shot that way because it's not necessarily ethical. But the 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.120 reality was if I showed something that was real, I 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.920 showed it as it was real, because I wanted to 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:32.120 teach people the importance of real honey. And there are 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:38.240 some people that show shirt show certain aspects of a hunt, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:44.560 and then they kind of they almost narrated around it 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.080 because they're trying to necessarily come up with an excuse. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.920 You know, I don't I'm sure you're following me, but 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.719 some people may not be following me. But it's hard 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.359 to say it without throwing people under the bus. But 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.480 there's times when bad shots have and and then instead 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.080 of education educating people on if a bad shot happens, 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.440 this is what you need to do, they try to 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.640 make an excuse of you know, it wasn't really a 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.040 bad shot. It just looked bad or you know, they 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:18.840 could try to cover it up. But the same is 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.480 true when it comes to an unsuccessful hunt. You know. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.320 I just came out with a short film that I 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.400 did with um Andy, who is the first time bow hunter, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.160 and I think it was a really cool film because 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:38.560 we had a tough hunt in France. But the reality 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.720 is we didn't have we didn't have a kill, we 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.440 didn't have you know, many people's eyes, we didn't have success. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.240 And I've got to the point where I feel like, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.240 because of social media, I have this expectation that I'm 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:59.320 always successful, but the truth is I'm not. And I'm 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:03.600 one of the people that I actually I actually liked 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.440 to show people when I miss I'd like to show people. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.760 Um you know, I remember, And it's funny, there's like 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:19.440 so many different subjects with this topic. It's a good topic. Um. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.160 I remember one time I had a moose hunt um 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.840 in BC and I showed it and the only shot 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.560 I had it was it was a legal bowl. But 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.960 it was you know, it was a small bowl, you know, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.760 fairly legal, but it was a legal bowl. And I 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.600 was super jacked because they had had a few tough 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.560 seasons up there in BC. The first year I went. 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.000 The only opening I could get up there was later 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.960 in the season, so I knew the chances were pretty 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.120 low as a boat hunter. As a rifle hunter, it 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.760 could have filled the tag, but that as a boat hunter. Um. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:04.160 And then the next year it was we got rain for. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.679 I was on a I was on an eight day hunt, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.720 and we got rained for all eight d eights never 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.559 saw anything. So this was my third year, going back 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.880 fifth day. And so by this point I was almost 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.520 two full weeks into into a moose hunt and a 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.760 legal bull came in and my, you know, we were 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.680 it was like one in the afternoon. We had been 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.599 there since morning. We were calling, and all of a 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.160 sudden this bull just came in quiet and he came in. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:37.160 We were actually uh in this little tree stand that 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.559 we made uh in between some pine trees, kind of 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:46.000 built a little platform. This bull comes in and gives 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:51.360 me a a pretty good shot UM, and I had 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.600 ranged I was definitely comfortable with. But then he all 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.840 of a sudden started to get a smell of us, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.240 so he turned and started a quarter away and he 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:03.760 quartered pretty art and I made I made a shop 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.240 that I was comfortable with, but on camera it was 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:11.800 a little bit far back and people were upset with 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:17.000 the shot, and the network was trying. The network trying 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:18.880 to tell me not to show the shop. But in 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.840 reality is I wanted to show the shot because it 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:27.040 was it was truthful to hunting. It was someone that 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.959 had gone three years without a shot, and the shot 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:36.520 presented itself. I made a shot, and I the I 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.520 recovered the animal right away, and I was truthful about 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.240 the fact that it was not a desirable shop, but 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:49.120 it happened. And I think that stuff is really really 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.480 needed in our industry. And I think that when a 0:10:54.640 --> 0:11:00.000 SHOT's made poorly, like well, when you and I hunted together, Um, 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.800 I had gone the whole year with making great jobs, 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:05.800 but then all of a sudden, when you and I 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.520 were together, that was a book that I really wanted. 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.400 He came in and I mean you were there, came 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.400 straight to us. I drew back before he got to us, 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.319 because I knew I'd never get drawn when he was 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.520 under us, and then literally stopped behind that tree waiting 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.360 on that dough. And I mean, I don't even know 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.120 how long has at full draw. But then literally as 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.520 soon as he turned I didn't know it turned to run, 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.960 but as soon as he turned to give me the shot, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.840 I shot, and he turned and was kind of starting 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.160 to go, So I hit him a little bit far back, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:50.480 and even though we assumed that he was trackable and expired, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.920 I was totally not willing myself to risk it, so 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.240 I didn't. And you know we talked about that on camera. Uh. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.920 You and I even had the discussion. You're like, I 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.800 think you should go, and I said, I don't know, man, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.640 I mean, I know you think I should, but I 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:17.720 think deep down I shouldn't. And as hunters success, no success, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.840 when to track, when not to track? Those are true. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:31.120 Those are a hundred percent true backbone elements to our 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:37.960 bow hunting or hunting. Social media and TV have changed. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:40.640 I mean, I know that was a long way to 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:45.439 get back to your question, but social media have changed 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:52.160 those two true elements to our sport, and it's it's unfortunate. Yeah, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.719 I agree, because it's necessary. Well, there's it's there's two 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.440 ways to think about it, right, I mean you're talking 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:03.200 about success and failure in both macro and micro elements, right, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.760 Like the macro element, where did that air land on 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.400 that animal? Was it a ten out of ten or 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.040 was it an eight out of ten? As far as 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.200 the effectiveness to kill that animal and then success in 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.880 all the other decisions you made afterwards, and really all 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.560 the decisions made before, and how do you depict all 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.319 those things when you're being asked to synthesize it down 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.720 into a smaller package, or even in the case of 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.760 like an instant story on social media, being able to 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.000 like show it in little snippets when everyone knows it's 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.760 not you know, that's not happening live. You can still 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.760 distill it and decide what the show and what not 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.640 to show. So you're right, I mean, I think when 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.160 you're talking about the ethics of telling the story inside 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:52.480 of its success or failure, it's really hard to decide 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.280 how to do that and what's effective. And I'm not 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.080 sure that if you just if everyone just stuck a 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.400 live camera in their bo and started posting posting those 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.040 things to social media that that would be good either, um, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.480 because everybody has different motivations for doing certain things, and 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.040 you know, sometimes editing is helpful. So you know, I 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.520 think that that question of where did that air land? 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.840 How did it get there? But then immediately after, what 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.680 did you do as an important one for hunters? And 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.080 how many times you know, did you illustrate that when 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.040 you were you know, when the Outdoor channel or sports 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.880 this channel, how many times were able both with the 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.960 amount of time you had to discuss those topics, um 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.840 or that, like you said, the restrictions that were I 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:43.160 was put on you by the network. Yeah, well, I 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:48.320 can't agree more. Man, there's no question, there's no question 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.560 as good as as good as social media is that 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.880 I don't know, it's an enabler, but it's the endrance 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.920 at the same time. I guess that's like a lot 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.960 of things in life. But you know, one of the 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:09.720 cool things about social media for me is that social 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:15.560 media actually gives me the ability to show truth and 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:22.520 especially live feats. Um. I've told this to I've told 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.280 this to a few friends. I told it to to Rogan. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:31.400 I said, because Joe, you know, Joe is he's the 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.560 perfect example of a new bou hunter because he's really 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.800 thirsty to like soak everything in. Whereas you and I 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.640 we've been around a long time to where we almost 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.880 when some people start to talk, we almost like this 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.040 like freaking shield goes up like, Okay, we've heard this 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.200 guy hundred times. Um, you know we kind of we 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.560 already have these whether it's good or bad. We have 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.240 these automatic phil ER's that kind of shoot up because 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.840 you know, been there, done that type of thing. Whereas 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.920 Joe's like he's a new bill hunter. He's thirt like 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.360 he wants to hear it all, and then he goes 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.240 to people he respects and says, hey, did you see this? 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:20.640 What do you think about it? And he's watched a 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.040 few Live He's where he's like, dude, if you heard 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.080 this guy. I mean, this guy seems like nonsense, And 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:35.080 I say, hey, this is where for me, Network TV 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:41.680 and Live they separate the cream of the crop, Like 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.640 it feeds into my wheelhouse because I try to only 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.680 talk about things that I feel like I have the 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.360 ability to educate in and and a comfort level to 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.640 where I can either do it live or I'm not 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.920 gonna do it where it is some people they want 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.160 to have this image or a portrayal of who they 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.480 are or what they can do, but the reality is 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.600 when they're live, they may not be able to do that. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:17.399 So there's there's yin and yang with social media. But in. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.160 It's in the same sense and on the same I guess, uh, 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.000 wave length of what I think you're trying to do 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:35.240 with your podcast is it's also powerful for the message 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:41.760 of hunting, but likewise it can instantly destroy it. Yeah, 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.320 now you're right. I mean that's I mean, it's a 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.600 partially really is it is a power. I mean we 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.560 literally have this tool. You know, we we have the 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.439 ringing right now, right, We've got the ringing power. I 0:17:55.480 --> 0:18:01.800 mean live social media is freaking We've got golumns ring 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:07.480 in our hand. And it's like, okay, some of these 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.200 freaking humans can put this sucker on and just tear 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.720 ship up. And some of them can put it on 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:22.120 and just literally suppressed most of the negativity that's destroying 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:27.480 our industry. But it's the sad part about it, or 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.200 the scary part about it. Not necessarily the sad part, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.399 but the scary part about it is there's no filter 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.879 to who grabbed that suck here, Like everybody has the 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:44.360 ring and someone can instantly do something that destroys our 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:51.280 industry or crumbles the company or you know, absolutely pummels 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.040 of company sales. I mean, there's a lot of different 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:58.800 things that can happen, or you can have someone that 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.240 portrays themselves elves in a fashion to where it genuinely 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:08.359 sparks interest to what are these guys doing. Like, these 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:13.360 guys are passionate, they're freaking going out, they're working, they're 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:20.720 they're like they're totally investing sweat equity into this thing 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.600 that they're passionate about, and then they're consuming it and 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.040 they've got like the purest literally the purest of fuel 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.639 there is and they're freaking just like rampaging about it. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.879 So it's a it's a it's a really really it 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.440 is a complex double edged sword man. Yeah, and that 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.280 makes it a tough topic to even to even try 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.160 to simplify into you know, whatever hour or two hours 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:51.960 that we have to talk here. I mean, it's it's 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.800 you could start with the great point that you made. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.000 Everyone has the power, right, so everyone that is listening 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.679 into this or um that has the ability to you know, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.800 plug their basic information into some forms on the internet 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.600 suddenly can a massive following for whatever reason, those people 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.840 desire to follow that person, and then they can exert 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.480 influence based on that following. And that is a crazy idea. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.119 And you know, a great example is is Rogan. I mean, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.320 Joe Rogan has been I don't know what how you 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.240 would qualify, but I would say he's been the biggest 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:34.000 influence on hunting that I've seen since I've been alive. Um, yeah, well, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:39.920 I mean on different levels. I would say, I would 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.439 say Bill Jordan, yeah one two decades ago, and I 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:49.320 would say Joe Rogan is a completely different like form 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.560 of that. Yeah. Well I came up, I came up 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.840 on Bill Jordan's and he was just like this window 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.919 into hunting that no one else had, right, I mean, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.439 there wasn't that many voice is whenever Real Tree, Monster 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.040 Bucks was coming out. I mean you had a few 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.600 DVDs here there, or a few magazines you can subscribe to, 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.200 but there was just a limited number of voices, which 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.280 you know was good and bad. It made it easier 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.919 to stand out, but it made it more important to 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:21.080 be respectable and respected. Um. Now we have all these voices, 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.639 as we've said, there's millions of voices out there talking 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.760 about hunting, and it's that much harder to be, you know, 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.440 in that ball of noise, to stand out and be heard. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.879 And when somebody like Joe steps into the arena with 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:40.320 that powerful following already and starts to just evolve his 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.199 passion for bo hunting the way he has in the 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.919 public eye. I mean, it's been a great story to 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.200 watch that, So, you know, I think what you can 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.280 do specifically but knock on and your in your knowledge 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.359 is all good. And you know, another question I was 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.159 thinking about on them drive home from work for you 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.600 was like, how do you take your knowledge and the 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:00.679 things that you know about our tree? You won't have 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.000 to list off your resume, but hopefully everyone listening kind 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.200 of knows. How do you take your knowledge and distill 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.919 it and get it out there um as effectively as 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.760 somebody who may have, you know, have a negative slant 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.120 for hunting. Well, I don't really know the right way 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:22.400 to answer that. I know, I guess you know. There 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.760 are two things that were important to talk about. Their 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:30.560 one was Joe has been very very fortunate to where 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:36.119 he came across some very very good people right away 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:45.919 to where I mean between Runella, Cam you remy me. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.720 I mean, he came across some people that were the 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.760 right people to where when he got into this he 0:22:55.000 --> 0:23:02.480 saw all the sides that are the right side for 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:10.560 having true compelling argument to the opposite side, okay, whereas 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:15.760 he could have came in and been introduced to, you know, 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.240 almost our opposite to where he may have came in 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.320 and just said, Man, I don't know, this is a 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:27.000 bunch of freaking you know whatever. You know, these these 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.400 guys are what what media portrays them as. And I'm 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.640 not really into that. I mean, that could have happened easily, 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:38.639 no question um for me. I've just got to the 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:43.600 point where, honestly, I don't and I'm I don't know. 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:51.000 I feel like I've never wanted to be bigger than 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.280 I am, So I'm not like I'm not fighting for 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.760 it to the point where it doesn't I don't feel 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.360 like I'm fighting for it to where it becomes where 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:07.439 it comes off authentic. I get authentic information that is 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.159 relevant to who I am and what I'm passionate about, 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:18.000 and I want people two associate with me, or follow me, 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:22.919 or theoretically just come along for this ride with me 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:28.160 that are passionate about the same things. And I don't 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:32.600 go outside of that freaking network, man, I mean, I don't. 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.959 I still I'll still do a podcast and I'll have 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:39.960 someone that will come on and say, man, I shot 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.440 with you at an A s A tournament twenty years 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.280 ago and just loved it on that target, and I've 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:48.919 still been following you since. I mean, those are the people. 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.040 Those are the only people I care about in this ride, 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:58.240 because that's what I believe in, and that's what I'm 0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:01.679 passionate about myself. I don't I don't try to go 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.240 outside of that. So I don't know, it's hard. There's 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:08.840 there are certain people that aren't wired that way, and 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:13.480 obviously they can come into this thing and they can create, 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:21.720 you know, they can instantly, they can instantly. I don't know. 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.520 I mean I always try to I always try to 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:28.800 approach things that I say thinking about Okay, I don't 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:33.680 wanna hurt someone else's feelings, even people I don't know. UM. 0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:37.320 But to go back a little bit, when I was 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:43.040 still working at Matthews I remember, which is a large 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.840 archery company. For those of you listening who aren't like 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:50.359 into archery, UM, Matthews was a was a very large 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.800 archery company at the time. We're number one in bow 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:58.360 hunting for you know, for sales. We're in company twice 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:04.240 since when I was there, and I remember one time. Um, 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:07.720 And back then, you know, social media wasn't out, dude. 0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:12.000 We got like you would open envelopes and people would 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:15.040 have pictures like their pictures of animals they shot, and 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.280 you would go through pictures, which you were the same 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.160 when you were an editor. You would go through pictures 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:23.960 of stuff people's shot and then decide what goes in 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:28.119 your catalog. And sometimes we would open an envelope and 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:32.000 it would be a guy that would have one elk 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:35.159 and one mulei, and you'd be like, oh, yeah, a 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:37.160 pretty good year. And then you open the next envelope 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.240 and here's a guy that has an elk, a mulei, 0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:45.719 a big horn, a turkey, forty dogs like all this stuff. 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:49.680 And I remember one time my boss at the time, 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:55.159 Joel Maxfield UM, which I'm sure you probably know Joel Um, 0:26:55.359 --> 0:27:00.320 he said, you know, really, to make an aim for 0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:03.200 yourself in the hunting industry, all you need is time 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:09.600 and money. Yeah, that's all you need. But I mean, honestly, 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:13.560 that is like if you want to if you want 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.840 to shoot a grand slamp any time and money, if 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.159