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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number four of The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I am been O'Brien coming to you from a table

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Speaker 1: at my house in Austin, Texas with a beer in

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Speaker 1: hand and a phone in front of me. Today we

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Speaker 1: are calling the great and powerful, the one and only

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Speaker 1: John Dudley. I wish John was here. He was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be here, but he couldn't. At the last minute.

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Speaker 1: Something came up, so I just gave him a call

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Speaker 1: and we did it that way. Why should you want

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Speaker 1: to listen to John Dudley, Well, the reasons are many.

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Speaker 1: John is a technical expert in archery. He's an accomplished

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Speaker 1: pro in target in the target world. He's the top

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Speaker 1: level coach internationally, and he's one of the best bon

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Speaker 1: hunters you'll ever meet. Beyond that, he's just a good guy.

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Speaker 1: He's somebody you could have a beer with, Somebody you

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Speaker 1: can shoot hoops with, Somebody you can hang out of

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Speaker 1: the back porch and just laugh your ass off. He's

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite people in the industry, along with

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Speaker 1: his wife Sharon, his son Little dud I mean, the

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Speaker 1: whole family is somebody you want to meet, you want

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Speaker 1: to run into at a party, So I think that's

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Speaker 1: always important. I think those things are are sometimes lost

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Speaker 1: in these types of podcasts. But John Dudley is my friend.

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Speaker 1: I love him and I hope you love him too.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately for you guys, we didn't talk too much about

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Speaker 1: the technical specs of archery. We talked about values and

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Speaker 1: influence and our roles in the industry and outside of

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Speaker 1: the industry, and of course the grand conversation of the

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Speaker 1: Grip and Gran. So hopefully you enjoy episode number four.

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Speaker 1: Here's John Dudley. John Dudley, what's happening? What are you doing? Man?

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Speaker 1: I am dedicating time and energy to what matters, and

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Speaker 1: that is the thing collective. Oh my gosh, he said

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Speaker 1: the name. He said the name of the podcast right

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Speaker 1: off the bat. That's a win. That's already a win.

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Speaker 1: A couple of these podcasts. I have asked the guests

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Speaker 1: to describe where we are, but unfortunately we are not together.

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Speaker 1: I am in a room at my house with a bar,

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Speaker 1: drinking a corona. You are at your home in Iowa

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Speaker 1: in a bar in a bar. Yes, yes, I literally

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Speaker 1: just it was almost like a game of operations, but

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Speaker 1: I put three bar chunk of ice cubes into my

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Speaker 1: heady without making a noise. So I'm pretty sure I

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Speaker 1: get to go to level two for being able to

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Speaker 1: do this. You're you're already on level two for sure, well,

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Speaker 1: at least in the in the in the general sense,

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Speaker 1: we're in the same place that which is a place

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Speaker 1: with beer here late at night on a Monday evening

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Speaker 1: that I like, I would much rather be with you

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Speaker 1: in Iowa. But in the absence of that, this will do. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I told you before we started recording

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to ask you some tough questions, um,

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Speaker 1: and so let's do that. I think, Um, my experience

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Speaker 1: in bow hunting has been pretty pretty gnarly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've had more failures than I can count, both when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid and then coming into my more

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Speaker 1: formative years, and then even since you and I have

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Speaker 1: been working together, since you been showing me what how

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Speaker 1: really it is done, I've had more failures than I

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Speaker 1: can think of, both in the backyard and then while

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Speaker 1: hunting and then over the place. And so it always

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Speaker 1: strikes me that, you know, bow hunting for the US

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Speaker 1: regular focus is like a game of failure, Like you're

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Speaker 1: just trying to mitigate the amount of failure that you have,

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Speaker 1: UM and so, and I don't know that I've you know,

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Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people say about social media

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Speaker 1: and our hunting industry that we don't highlight that failure

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Speaker 1: quite enough. UM. So, I guess my first question is,

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Speaker 1: did you agree with that that we don't highlight the

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Speaker 1: failures enough or is there a better way to subscribe

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Speaker 1: to that idea? Dang, dude, that's this cool question. I

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Speaker 1: actually really appreciate that one. Um. I appreciate it. Martin.

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Speaker 1: Probably what you would I would know, because one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I really disliked about being on TV

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Speaker 1: was the parameters that the TV network put around certain

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Speaker 1: people that change there beliefs and outlooks on the whole

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Speaker 1: hunting community. And I really felt like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the things that I believed in some of the values,

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Speaker 1: and then also I don't know, just some of the

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Speaker 1: things that I felt like I was most passionate about

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Speaker 1: in relation to not only hunting, but also just being

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Speaker 1: a a bow hunter and an archer. I actually had

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Speaker 1: to change those because it was part of the guidelines

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Speaker 1: to being on a network, and over the course of

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Speaker 1: the six years that I was on, they slowly like

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Speaker 1: kind of bent rules, Like you know, they told me, what,

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Speaker 1: you can't do an educational segment for three full minutes.

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Speaker 1: That's too long. And then it got to the point

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Speaker 1: where it's like, wow, many more educational segments can you do?

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Speaker 1: And it was also like, well, we can't have a

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Speaker 1: show that doesn't show success or you can't show a

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Speaker 1: shot that way because it's not necessarily ethical. But the

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Speaker 1: reality was if I showed something that was real, I

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Speaker 1: showed it as it was real, because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: teach people the importance of real honey. And there are

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Speaker 1: some people that show shirt show certain aspects of a hunt,

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Speaker 1: and then they kind of they almost narrated around it

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Speaker 1: because they're trying to necessarily come up with an excuse.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't I'm sure you're following me, but

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Speaker 1: some people may not be following me. But it's hard

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Speaker 1: to say it without throwing people under the bus. But

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Speaker 1: there's times when bad shots have and and then instead

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Speaker 1: of education educating people on if a bad shot happens,

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Speaker 1: this is what you need to do, they try to

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Speaker 1: make an excuse of you know, it wasn't really a

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Speaker 1: bad shot. It just looked bad or you know, they

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Speaker 1: could try to cover it up. But the same is

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Speaker 1: true when it comes to an unsuccessful hunt. You know.

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Speaker 1: I just came out with a short film that I

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Speaker 1: did with um Andy, who is the first time bow hunter,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was a really cool film because

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Speaker 1: we had a tough hunt in France. But the reality

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Speaker 1: is we didn't have we didn't have a kill, we

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Speaker 1: didn't have you know, many people's eyes, we didn't have success.

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Speaker 1: And I've got to the point where I feel like,

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Speaker 1: because of social media, I have this expectation that I'm

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Speaker 1: always successful, but the truth is I'm not. And I'm

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Speaker 1: one of the people that I actually I actually liked

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Speaker 1: to show people when I miss I'd like to show people.

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Speaker 1: Um you know, I remember, And it's funny, there's like

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Speaker 1: so many different subjects with this topic. It's a good topic. Um.

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Speaker 1: I remember one time I had a moose hunt um

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Speaker 1: in BC and I showed it and the only shot

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Speaker 1: I had it was it was a legal bowl. But

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Speaker 1: it was you know, it was a small bowl, you know,

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Speaker 1: fairly legal, but it was a legal bowl. And I

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Speaker 1: was super jacked because they had had a few tough

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Speaker 1: seasons up there in BC. The first year I went.

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Speaker 1: The only opening I could get up there was later

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Speaker 1: in the season, so I knew the chances were pretty

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Speaker 1: low as a boat hunter. As a rifle hunter, it

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Speaker 1: could have filled the tag, but that as a boat hunter. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then the next year it was we got rain for.

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Speaker 1: I was on a I was on an eight day hunt,

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Speaker 1: and we got rained for all eight d eights never

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Speaker 1: saw anything. So this was my third year, going back

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Speaker 1: fifth day. And so by this point I was almost

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Speaker 1: two full weeks into into a moose hunt and a

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Speaker 1: legal bull came in and my, you know, we were

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Speaker 1: it was like one in the afternoon. We had been

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Speaker 1: there since morning. We were calling, and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden this bull just came in quiet and he came in.

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Speaker 1: We were actually uh in this little tree stand that

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Speaker 1: we made uh in between some pine trees, kind of

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Speaker 1: built a little platform. This bull comes in and gives

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Speaker 1: me a a pretty good shot UM, and I had

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Speaker 1: ranged I was definitely comfortable with. But then he all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden started to get a smell of us,

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Speaker 1: so he turned and started a quarter away and he

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Speaker 1: quartered pretty art and I made I made a shop

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Speaker 1: that I was comfortable with, but on camera it was

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Speaker 1: a little bit far back and people were upset with

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Speaker 1: the shot, and the network was trying. The network trying

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Speaker 1: to tell me not to show the shop. But in

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Speaker 1: reality is I wanted to show the shot because it

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Speaker 1: was it was truthful to hunting. It was someone that

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Speaker 1: had gone three years without a shot, and the shot

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Speaker 1: presented itself. I made a shot, and I the I

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Speaker 1: recovered the animal right away, and I was truthful about

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Speaker 1: the fact that it was not a desirable shop, but

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Speaker 1: it happened. And I think that stuff is really really

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Speaker 1: needed in our industry. And I think that when a

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Speaker 1: SHOT's made poorly, like well, when you and I hunted together, Um,

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Speaker 1: I had gone the whole year with making great jobs,

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Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden, when you and I

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Speaker 1: were together, that was a book that I really wanted.

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Speaker 1: He came in and I mean you were there, came

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Speaker 1: straight to us. I drew back before he got to us,

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Speaker 1: because I knew I'd never get drawn when he was

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Speaker 1: under us, and then literally stopped behind that tree waiting

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Speaker 1: on that dough. And I mean, I don't even know

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Speaker 1: how long has at full draw. But then literally as

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Speaker 1: soon as he turned I didn't know it turned to run,

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Speaker 1: but as soon as he turned to give me the shot,

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Speaker 1: I shot, and he turned and was kind of starting

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Speaker 1: to go, So I hit him a little bit far back,

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Speaker 1: and even though we assumed that he was trackable and expired,

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Speaker 1: I was totally not willing myself to risk it, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And you know we talked about that on camera. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You and I even had the discussion. You're like, I

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Speaker 1: think you should go, and I said, I don't know, man,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know you think I should, but I

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Speaker 1: think deep down I shouldn't. And as hunters success, no success,

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Speaker 1: when to track, when not to track? Those are true.

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Speaker 1: Those are a hundred percent true backbone elements to our

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Speaker 1: bow hunting or hunting. Social media and TV have changed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that was a long way to

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Speaker 1: get back to your question, but social media have changed

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Speaker 1: those two true elements to our sport, and it's it's unfortunate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree, because it's necessary. Well, there's it's there's two

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Speaker 1: ways to think about it, right, I mean you're talking

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Speaker 1: about success and failure in both macro and micro elements, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the macro element, where did that air land on

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Speaker 1: that animal? Was it a ten out of ten or

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Speaker 1: was it an eight out of ten? As far as

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Speaker 1: the effectiveness to kill that animal and then success in

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Speaker 1: all the other decisions you made afterwards, and really all

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Speaker 1: the decisions made before, and how do you depict all

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Speaker 1: those things when you're being asked to synthesize it down

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Speaker 1: into a smaller package, or even in the case of

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Speaker 1: like an instant story on social media, being able to

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Speaker 1: like show it in little snippets when everyone knows it's

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Speaker 1: not you know, that's not happening live. You can still

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Speaker 1: distill it and decide what the show and what not

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Speaker 1: to show. So you're right, I mean, I think when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the ethics of telling the story inside

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Speaker 1: of its success or failure, it's really hard to decide

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Speaker 1: how to do that and what's effective. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that if you just if everyone just stuck a

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Speaker 1: live camera in their bo and started posting posting those

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Speaker 1: things to social media that that would be good either, um,

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Speaker 1: because everybody has different motivations for doing certain things, and

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes editing is helpful. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that that question of where did that air land?

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Speaker 1: How did it get there? But then immediately after, what

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Speaker 1: did you do as an important one for hunters? And

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Speaker 1: how many times you know, did you illustrate that when

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Speaker 1: you were you know, when the Outdoor channel or sports

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Speaker 1: this channel, how many times were able both with the

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Speaker 1: amount of time you had to discuss those topics, um

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Speaker 1: or that, like you said, the restrictions that were I

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Speaker 1: was put on you by the network. Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: can't agree more. Man, there's no question, there's no question

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Speaker 1: as good as as good as social media is that

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's an enabler, but it's the endrance

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Speaker 1: at the same time. I guess that's like a lot

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Speaker 1: of things in life. But you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: cool things about social media for me is that social

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Speaker 1: media actually gives me the ability to show truth and

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Speaker 1: especially live feats. Um. I've told this to I've told

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Speaker 1: this to a few friends. I told it to to Rogan.

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Speaker 1: I said, because Joe, you know, Joe is he's the

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Speaker 1: perfect example of a new bou hunter because he's really

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Speaker 1: thirsty to like soak everything in. Whereas you and I

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Speaker 1: we've been around a long time to where we almost

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Speaker 1: when some people start to talk, we almost like this

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Speaker 1: like freaking shield goes up like, Okay, we've heard this

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Speaker 1: guy hundred times. Um, you know we kind of we

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Speaker 1: already have these whether it's good or bad. We have

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Speaker 1: these automatic phil ER's that kind of shoot up because

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Speaker 1: you know, been there, done that type of thing. Whereas

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Speaker 1: Joe's like he's a new bill hunter. He's thirt like

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Speaker 1: he wants to hear it all, and then he goes

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Speaker 1: to people he respects and says, hey, did you see this?

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Speaker 1: What do you think about it? And he's watched a

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Speaker 1: few Live He's where he's like, dude, if you heard

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Speaker 1: this guy. I mean, this guy seems like nonsense, And

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Speaker 1: I say, hey, this is where for me, Network TV

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Speaker 1: and Live they separate the cream of the crop, Like

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Speaker 1: it feeds into my wheelhouse because I try to only

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Speaker 1: talk about things that I feel like I have the

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Speaker 1: ability to educate in and and a comfort level to

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Speaker 1: where I can either do it live or I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna do it where it is some people they want

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Speaker 1: to have this image or a portrayal of who they

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Speaker 1: are or what they can do, but the reality is

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Speaker 1: when they're live, they may not be able to do that.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's yin and yang with social media. But in.

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Speaker 1: It's in the same sense and on the same I guess, uh,

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Speaker 1: wave length of what I think you're trying to do

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Speaker 1: with your podcast is it's also powerful for the message

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Speaker 1: of hunting, but likewise it can instantly destroy it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now you're right. I mean that's I mean, it's a

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Speaker 1: partially really is it is a power. I mean we

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Speaker 1: literally have this tool. You know, we we have the

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Speaker 1: ringing right now, right, We've got the ringing power. I

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Speaker 1: mean live social media is freaking We've got golumns ring

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Speaker 1: in our hand. And it's like, okay, some of these

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Speaker 1: freaking humans can put this sucker on and just tear

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Speaker 1: ship up. And some of them can put it on

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Speaker 1: and just literally suppressed most of the negativity that's destroying

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Speaker 1: our industry. But it's the sad part about it, or

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Speaker 1: the scary part about it. Not necessarily the sad part,

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Speaker 1: but the scary part about it is there's no filter

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Speaker 1: to who grabbed that suck here, Like everybody has the

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Speaker 1: ring and someone can instantly do something that destroys our

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Speaker 1: industry or crumbles the company or you know, absolutely pummels

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Speaker 1: of company sales. I mean, there's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: things that can happen, or you can have someone that

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Speaker 1: portrays themselves elves in a fashion to where it genuinely

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Speaker 1: sparks interest to what are these guys doing. Like, these

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Speaker 1: guys are passionate, they're freaking going out, they're working, they're

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Speaker 1: they're like they're totally investing sweat equity into this thing

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Speaker 1: that they're passionate about, and then they're consuming it and

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Speaker 1: they've got like the purest literally the purest of fuel

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Speaker 1: there is and they're freaking just like rampaging about it.

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Speaker 1: So it's a it's a it's a really really it

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Speaker 1: is a complex double edged sword man. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 1: makes it a tough topic to even to even try

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Speaker 1: to simplify into you know, whatever hour or two hours

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Speaker 1: that we have to talk here. I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: you could start with the great point that you made.

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Speaker 1: Everyone has the power, right, so everyone that is listening

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Speaker 1: into this or um that has the ability to you know,

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Speaker 1: plug their basic information into some forms on the internet

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Speaker 1: suddenly can a massive following for whatever reason, those people

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Speaker 1: desire to follow that person, and then they can exert

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Speaker 1: influence based on that following. And that is a crazy idea.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a great example is is Rogan. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan has been I don't know what how you

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Speaker 1: would qualify, but I would say he's been the biggest

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Speaker 1: influence on hunting that I've seen since I've been alive. Um, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean on different levels. I would say, I would

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Speaker 1: say Bill Jordan, yeah one two decades ago, and I

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Speaker 1: would say Joe Rogan is a completely different like form

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Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. Well I came up, I came up

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Speaker 1: on Bill Jordan's and he was just like this window

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Speaker 1: into hunting that no one else had, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't that many voice is whenever Real Tree, Monster

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Speaker 1: Bucks was coming out. I mean you had a few

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Speaker 1: DVDs here there, or a few magazines you can subscribe to,

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Speaker 1: but there was just a limited number of voices, which

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Speaker 1: you know was good and bad. It made it easier

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Speaker 1: to stand out, but it made it more important to

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Speaker 1: be respectable and respected. Um. Now we have all these voices,

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Speaker 1: as we've said, there's millions of voices out there talking

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Speaker 1: about hunting, and it's that much harder to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: in that ball of noise, to stand out and be heard.

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Speaker 1: And when somebody like Joe steps into the arena with

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Speaker 1: that powerful following already and starts to just evolve his

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Speaker 1: passion for bo hunting the way he has in the

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Speaker 1: public eye. I mean, it's been a great story to

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Speaker 1: watch that, So, you know, I think what you can

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Speaker 1: do specifically but knock on and your in your knowledge

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Speaker 1: is all good. And you know, another question I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about on them drive home from work for you

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Speaker 1: was like, how do you take your knowledge and the

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Speaker 1: things that you know about our tree? You won't have

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Speaker 1: to list off your resume, but hopefully everyone listening kind

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Speaker 1: of knows. How do you take your knowledge and distill

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Speaker 1: it and get it out there um as effectively as

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Speaker 1: somebody who may have, you know, have a negative slant

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Speaker 1: for hunting. Well, I don't really know the right way

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Speaker 1: to answer that. I know, I guess you know. There

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Speaker 1: are two things that were important to talk about. Their

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Speaker 1: one was Joe has been very very fortunate to where

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Speaker 1: he came across some very very good people right away

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Speaker 1: to where I mean between Runella, Cam you remy me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he came across some people that were the

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Speaker 1: right people to where when he got into this he

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Speaker 1: saw all the sides that are the right side for

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Speaker 1: having true compelling argument to the opposite side, okay, whereas

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Speaker 1: he could have came in and been introduced to, you know,

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Speaker 1: almost our opposite to where he may have came in

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Speaker 1: and just said, Man, I don't know, this is a

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Speaker 1: bunch of freaking you know whatever. You know, these these

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Speaker 1: guys are what what media portrays them as. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not really into that. I mean, that could have happened easily,

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Speaker 1: no question um for me. I've just got to the

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Speaker 1: point where, honestly, I don't and I'm I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've never wanted to be bigger than

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Speaker 1: I am, So I'm not like I'm not fighting for

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Speaker 1: it to the point where it doesn't I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm fighting for it to where it becomes where

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Speaker 1: it comes off authentic. I get authentic information that is

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Speaker 1: relevant to who I am and what I'm passionate about,

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Speaker 1: and I want people two associate with me, or follow me,

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Speaker 1: or theoretically just come along for this ride with me

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Speaker 1: that are passionate about the same things. And I don't

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Speaker 1: go outside of that freaking network, man, I mean, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I still I'll still do a podcast and I'll have

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Speaker 1: someone that will come on and say, man, I shot

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Speaker 1: with you at an A s A tournament twenty years

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Speaker 1: ago and just loved it on that target, and I've

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Speaker 1: still been following you since. I mean, those are the people.

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Speaker 1: Those are the only people I care about in this ride,

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Speaker 1: because that's what I believe in, and that's what I'm

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Speaker 1: passionate about myself. I don't I don't try to go

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Speaker 1: outside of that. So I don't know, it's hard. There's

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Speaker 1: there are certain people that aren't wired that way, and

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Speaker 1: obviously they can come into this thing and they can create,

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Speaker 1: you know, they can instantly, they can instantly. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean I always try to I always try to

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Speaker 1: approach things that I say thinking about Okay, I don't

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Speaker 1: wanna hurt someone else's feelings, even people I don't know. UM.

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Speaker 1: But to go back a little bit, when I was

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Speaker 1: still working at Matthews I remember, which is a large

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Speaker 1: archery company. For those of you listening who aren't like

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Speaker 1: into archery, UM, Matthews was a was a very large

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Speaker 1: archery company at the time. We're number one in bow

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Speaker 1: hunting for you know, for sales. We're in company twice

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Speaker 1: since when I was there, and I remember one time. Um,

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Speaker 1: And back then, you know, social media wasn't out, dude.

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Speaker 1: We got like you would open envelopes and people would

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Speaker 1: have pictures like their pictures of animals they shot, and

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Speaker 1: you would go through pictures, which you were the same

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Speaker 1: when you were an editor. You would go through pictures

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Speaker 1: of stuff people's shot and then decide what goes in

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Speaker 1: your catalog. And sometimes we would open an envelope and

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Speaker 1: it would be a guy that would have one elk

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Speaker 1: and one mulei, and you'd be like, oh, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: pretty good year. And then you open the next envelope

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Speaker 1: and here's a guy that has an elk, a mulei,

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Speaker 1: a big horn, a turkey, forty dogs like all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I remember one time my boss at the time,

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Speaker 1: Joel Maxfield UM, which I'm sure you probably know Joel Um,

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, really, to make an aim for

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Speaker 1: yourself in the hunting industry, all you need is time

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00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: and money. Yeah, that's all you need. But I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: that is like if you want to if you want

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Speaker 1: to shoot a grand slamp any time and money, if

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Speaker 1: you want to shoot the Grand slam and sheet, any

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00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: time and money. But there's a there's a few guys

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00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: that like fall between those lines, that are just absolutely hardcore,

404
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: passionate guys that are just engulfed in it. I mean

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Speaker 1: guys like Remy right. I mean, these are guys that

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Speaker 1: literally there, their time is a hundred percent, all of

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Speaker 1: their time of their life has been dedicated to hunting.

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Speaker 1: They've been out, They've literally left their jobs because they

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Speaker 1: wanted to be out the entire elk season. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean Remy told me recently, Remy Warren, that he

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Speaker 1: there's years past that he hunted three hundred days a year.

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Speaker 1: I mean, between guiding and personal trips, three hundred days

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Speaker 1: a year. And I'm sure I'm sure you've hit close

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Speaker 1: to that before. I know, I know, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I can't say that. I can't. I can't say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would say there's certainly days where I've

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Speaker 1: I've trained, and I've trained and and practiced and prepared

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Speaker 1: for that. But to be out there for that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's guys like that that have just the the perfect

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Speaker 1: voice for the industry. But those guys are not the

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Speaker 1: ones that are looking for attention. Those aren't the ones

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Speaker 1: that are trying to be the next social media guy.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that's what gets really tough, is you know,

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Speaker 1: when you kind of asked the questions or you know,

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Speaker 1: what does social media changed or what does you know?

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Speaker 1: How many of your followers are you know, truly following

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00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Man, it's for me, I'm happy with

428
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: content with where I'm at, but there is there are

429
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: two very very clear paths that are being taken by

430
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: mainstream hunters, and they're you know, I don't I don't

431
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: want to put myself necessarily in the same category as

432
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: Remy because Primy and I are different. But I think

433
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: it would be safe to say that Remy and I

434
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: don't care what mainstream thinks us as much as we

435
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: want to to at least voice are heartfelt opinion on that. Again,

436
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's no that makes sense. I

437
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: mean it goes back to the point you made about

438
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 1: how do you determine who's an expert hunter or how

439
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 1: do you determine who's a voice to be listened to,

440
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: or how do you determine who is you know, the

441
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: term that we use in marketing all the time, who

442
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: is an influencer? Because what what type of influence are

443
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: you looking for? What type of person um are you after?

444
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: And I think that's what drew me to you first,

445
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: just because you know, you could definitely see you from

446
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 1: listening to your podcast or from um following you on

447
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: social that there's a depth of knowledge there that just

448
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: isn't there with anyone else that I've ever experienced or met.

449
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, that that's the ultimate question, right, Like how

450
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: do you in a in a pursuit like hunting that's

451
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: a democracy. Anyone can do it as long as they

452
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: do it leagally and have a license and have some

453
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: level of skill to to get it done. Anyone can

454
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: do it, which means anyone, like you said, with time

455
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: and money, could could be um over and above everyone else.

456
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: If you track success based on how many species you've killed,

457
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: or how many animals you've killed, or how many inches

458
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: a bone you've collected over the years, I mean, that's

459
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: the that's the question, right. I mean, because you've killed

460
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: every species on the planet, does that make you a

461
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: better hunter than than John Dudley you just hunts in

462
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: Iowa every year, or or Remy Warren who maybe sticks

463
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: home in Nevada. I mean, what is to you? What's

464
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: the qualifier? How would you qualify that an even tougher question.

465
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna say something I don't even think

466
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: I've told you even as a friendness. But a few

467
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: years ago, and I won't see who it was, but

468
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: a few years ago, I had a sponsor of mine

469
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: that in a phone call compared me to another person

470
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: within our street that also haunts and also shoots. And

471
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: they made the comparison to me, and I remember them saying, like,

472
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: you know, do you really put yourself on their level?

473
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they said, you know, right now they're going

474
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: for the Grand Slam? I mean, are you even doing that?

475
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: And what was so strange about the conversation is at

476
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: the beginning of the conversation, the conversation started about what

477
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: it would cost to sponsor my show when it was

478
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 1: on network, And so during that conversation somehow it got

479
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: moved over to will you can't be worth that much

480
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: because this person is going out and doing a Grand Slam.

481
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: You're not even doing that? And I remember I said, dude,

482
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: do you realize that extra sponsorship money that they ask

483
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: for is because they're doing that? Like, would you rather

484
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: pay less for someone that is literally doing what's what

485
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: they're passionate about and what I feel personally is good

486
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: for the industry, or are you going to pay the

487
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: person that is literally their investment. Is I am going

488
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: to be the next person to a grand Slam? I mean,

489
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: it was this. It was just his most awkward conversation,

490
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: and it was at that moment I realized, this person

491
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: is not not a fit for me Like this, I

492
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: don't care even if they're offering me something. I'm not

493
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: gonna go anywhere with this conversation because if you're comparing

494
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: me to someone that's going to go on a fifty

495
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: sheep hunt, I cannot, Like, that's not on my map.

496
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: I've got a kid that's getting ready to go on kidting,

497
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: ready to go to college. You know, if I think

498
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: a fifty grand, I'm thinking that's two years of college

499
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: and I'm not thinking do I want to go shoot sheep?

500
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: But yet you're comparing me to someone that is going

501
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: to be getting a super slam versus someone that's literally

502
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: trying to just get by and educate. So I don't know,

503
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: it's it is a It is a very weird thing

504
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: that our industry is in. We I don't want to

505
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: make it about killing, but yet we do. It's am

506
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: I right, It's a weird paradox. It's like, well, we

507
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: don't want to make it about killing, but would you

508
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: kill this year? Like how much would you really kill?

509
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: And honestly that this is the part I haven't told you.

510
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: So since then, a lot of my um a lot

511
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: of my antlers that I've had in the house, I've

512
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: actually been I've been having them cut up to just

513
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: to make Boe grips for my followers, because it was

514
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: at that moment where I'm like, you know, what if

515
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: all these crabs sitting around in here is coming down

516
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: to this, I don't want to look at it. That's

517
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: powerful that you were so changed by those interactions that

518
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: you felt like, you know, that the tokens of hunting

519
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: in your house had to go away because you didn't

520
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: want to feel like, you know, maybe you're cheating the

521
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: experience like some other people do. I mean, that's crazy

522
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: to me. And and the other point you made that

523
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: I feel like it's elevated is that like some of

524
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: the animals you you happen to live in Iowa, um

525
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: were white tail hunting is if you're a resident, it's

526
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: pretty inclusive. If you have property and you can buy

527
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: a hunting license. Um, you can go hunt white tailed deer.

528
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: But we have these other animals that are exclusive because

529
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: of a myriad of factors. Like a sheep is an

530
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: exclusive animal. You either have to draw that tag or

531
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: you have to have a lot of money to pay

532
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: someone else to take you and then go. So you

533
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: happen to live in an area where the white tailed

534
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: deer is this inclusive animal, where everybody basically in America

535
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: could go hunt them if they choose to. Someone else

536
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: uses money to go and chase an exclusive animal, and

537
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: somehow that exclusivity draws them praise. Whereas you put the

538
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: time into your land. You have to build the property

539
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: like you have out there in Iowa. Um, and somehow

540
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: someone who shoots a big ram is better than you

541
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: at the pursuit, which is kind of silly to me.

542
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: And I could see how that silliness would make you

543
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: want to run from it a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

544
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: it's a but the same in this and what's weird

545
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: is on the same on the same exact hand, I'm

546
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: sitting there fully appreciating the amount of work that it

547
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: goes in to get one of those things like if

548
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: they have a tag. It's not easy, you know it.

549
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: So those are freaking tough hunts. I mean, you know

550
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: when you went and shot your blue sheet, I mean, yeah,

551
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna go shoot a blue sheet. I mean

552
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: unless unless someone hears this podcast and it's like, wow,

553
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: I want to shoot the blue sheet, but I need

554
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: John Double to go with me. Well, I mean that

555
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: would be the only time I would go. But I'm

556
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: not gonna ever shoot a blue sheet. But who I know.

557
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: I know the amount of baby wife you went through

558
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: the shoot one, and I mean in the in the

559
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: same sense I can appreciate listen that is and earned species,

560
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: I get it, but it's it's just really funny when

561
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: the corporate part of the hunting industry views that as

562
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: a measuring stick. That's what It's really really tough. And honestly,

563
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: when you called me about about Yetti, I don't know

564
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: if you remember this, but I just said, I don't know, dude,

565
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm totally late to this ball game

566
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: because I literally felt like I was the only outdoor

567
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: person that was not sponsored by Yetti. And I was

568
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: truthful in the fact of I don't know if I

569
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: want to be the last person like come on the

570
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: YETI party train, because you know I want to. I

571
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: would really love for people, at least my followers. I

572
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: would love them to see me go to Yetti because

573
00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: I was passionate about it, and not because of the industry.

574
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: He was already there, So that was all I mean.

575
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: And do you remember our conversation about that. Absolutely absolutely

576
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: that was more of a worry for me. I'm like, listen,

577
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that my true passion

578
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: and my true usage of the product is clear and

579
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: transparent to the people that follows what I'm doing, because

580
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: I don't want to just be on a bandwagon. I

581
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: want it has to be authentic for me. Yeah. Absolutely, well,

582
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: and back to the blue sheet point like, you're pent

583
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: right in that too, And I don't I don't want

584
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: ever to come across like, hey, if you hunt a sheep,

585
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: you have to be rich to have a bunch of um,

586
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: you know, time on your hands. That's not that's not

587
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: to say that the action of sheep hunting isn't isn't

588
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: ridiculously tough, And anybody who shot a grand slam of

589
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: anything has to have more ability than the average hunter,

590
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: much more ability than the average hunter. So and in

591
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: that way you earn it. Um. It's just hard when

592
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: you whip out the measuring stick, like you said, that's hard,

593
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: it's hard to figure that, Um, Which parts do you measure?

594
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: Which parts do you discount? How do you figure all

595
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: that out? Um? You know the same way with with

596
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: being sponsored by a company, Which which parts of that

597
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: connection do you take in? Which parts maybe do you discount?

598
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: Especially in your situation. And and that's just a tough

599
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: that's a tough road to home, um, and a good

600
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: issue to to think about. I always think about that,

601
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: Like if am I a better hunter because I went

602
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: and shot that blue sheep? I don't think so. No, UM,

603
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 1: I would say you are. I would say you learn

604
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 1: stuff there that I've never been able to experience because

605
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: I've never been in that element. Yeah, yeah, I know

606
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: you better hunter. I can tell you you're a better

607
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: hunter because you've experienced something cover than I've ever experienced.

608
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: But but I know what you're saying at the same

609
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: time too, you know. Yeah, when it comes to my reputation,

610
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: like am I do I hold that up as the

611
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: reason why someone should ask me for my opinion? That's

612
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: not No, I don't at all. It was you're putting

613
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: a situation. I was lucky enough to be putting that situation,

614
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: and then I was even luckier to have you know,

615
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: gutted it out and got it done. I mean those

616
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: so it's hard to bring that back into an industry

617
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: and try to shape those stories in a way that

618
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: it's supposed to, you know, shape me as a hunter.

619
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: It's because kind of it's it's a weird echo chamber

620
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: that we get in. Um, you know, would would the

621
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: grip and grin of me and that sheep somehow put

622
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: on a billboard people, Oh my gosh, there's been or Brian,

623
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: which we should we should really follow him and listen

624
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: to what he says. He shot a blue sheep like

625
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: and maybe not? Am I better personally for it? Yeah? Sure?

626
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: But does it mean someth I should listen to what

627
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: I have to say. No, it should be a whole package,

628
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: much like you know, your whole package started when you

629
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: were a young man, and you went through many tournaments

630
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: and many failures and many successes, and you build up

631
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: an expertise and now here you are someone with so

632
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: much to share. Um, that's why it's important to be

633
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: connected to brands and to your audience. That that's why

634
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: those things are that's why those things are important, not

635
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: just that one giant Bucky kill, but the totality of

636
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: what you've done. Yeah, yeah, do you I've got two

637
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: questions for you. Can I do that? Yeah? Please? Please

638
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: spin the table. One thing that I struggle with is

639
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: when I'm at these shows, people come up to me

640
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: and and they're super passionate because they're trying to get

641
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: into the industry, or they're you know, they've got this

642
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: vision of what they want to do, and they come

643
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: up to you and they're like, hey, check this out.

644
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: We're starting you know, such and such, and it just

645
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: it gets really hard to listen to I don't know

646
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: if I'm saying this the right way, but it gets

647
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: really hard to to listen to everybody's idea when they're

648
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: trying to kind of make a pitch for how to

649
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: get their leg in the industry, when a lot of

650
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: times it's clear at the very get go that the

651
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: way that they're trying to come in it really isn't

652
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: from It really isn't because they're wanting to get in it.

653
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: You know, they're not wanting to come in to grow things.

654
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: They're wanting to come in because they're really wanting to

655
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: just you know, they're wanting to create their own image.

656
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: And it's sometimes it's hard because you know, I feel

657
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: almost guilty by shutting them out mentally almost too fast.

658
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: How do you, I mean, how do you feel about

659
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: that or deal with that? I mean, do you feel

660
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: like do you feel like there's a lot of people

661
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: trying to get in it for the wrong reasons? Or

662
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: and I guess, how do you what's your filth? Yeah,

663
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean every I would say.

664
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: The first thing I always try to think of is

665
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: I respect that they're this person is coming to me

666
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: with this like that. To me, I have to, you know,

667
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: kind of peel away what they're saying and try to

668
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: think of the angle they're coming from, Like I should

669
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: be grateful that anyone walks up to me and says,

670
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to get in, how do how

671
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: does it happen? Or I'm trying to get in? Can

672
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: you help me get in? Or can I earn your

673
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: um in the case of me, marketing dollars in the

674
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: case of you, just advice. So that's the first thing

675
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: I try to think of, And man, I slip on

676
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: that all the time. Like you said, when somebody's talking

677
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 1: and I know that, you know they're not coming from

678
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: the angle that I appreciate, or maybe that they're a

679
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: little bit misled. I always I catch myself always just

680
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: shutting it off and just going through the motion. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

681
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: here's a card for someone else to talk to. Try

682
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: to be incura, but just get him out of your face.

683
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: I think that's probably only natural, just because the amount

684
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: of that that you see and that I see just

685
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: in my in my career. Um, I think that's only natural.

686
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: But I would say this year at the A T

687
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: A Show, I was really surprised at the number of

688
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: people that were looking for instant fame that we're looking for,

689
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: or had had believe that they had garnered it just

690
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: based on the amount of people that were following them

691
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: or the other companies that were supporting them, and weren't

692
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: there to tell me their story, you know, how they

693
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: got to the point where they are and where they

694
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: want to go and how they hope to get there,

695
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: because I think those are the three key points. Um,

696
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: they had lost the ability just to tell their own

697
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: story and be passionate about that story. Um, they were

698
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 1: just telling me what they thought I needed to hear

699
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: to give them money. Um, yet he's money as a ghost.

700
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: So I think maybe that's there's a little bit of

701
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: a distortion from those from some people in the industry

702
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: that like, you can, how do I become an influencer,

703
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: rather than how do I tell my story? Then maybe

704
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: one day I will become an influencer. Maybe if I

705
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: tell my story the right way and people watch me

706
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: grow and watch me learn and fail and succeed, and

707
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: and they do that via social media, then one day

708
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: I'll be in a position where I can be an influencer.

709
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: Whereas like, how can I get a bunch of followers

710
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: and have some sock company give me money from wearing

711
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: their socks and putting and putting putting my feet on Instagram?

712
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: Which I saw recently. Um, there's a there's an unnamed

713
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: sock company that is sponsoring social media influencers and then

714
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: putting people are putting their feet on the Internet. It's

715
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: a bad trend, man, It's a bad trend. Man. I

716
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: put the picture my feet one time after my Alberta

717
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: hunt and some people. Their comments made me never want

718
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: to post that picture again, I mean, cancel social media

719
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: just to never see a picture like this again. Yeah,

720
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, so, I don't know. I'm not sure that

721
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: I know the answer to that question, other than that

722
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: I first tried to appreciate what where the person is

723
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: coming from and connect with them in some way, having

724
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, there was somebody in my life who heard

725
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: my UM story and absolutely connected with it and listen.

726
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: So I try to do that. But then also at

727
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: the same time, um, you know, time is valuable, so

728
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: people need to understand that, and they need to understand

729
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: that you really gotta think hard before you brochia conversation

730
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: like that, especially in a trade show environment. But I

731
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: would you can encourage everybody to go for whatever their

732
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: dreams are. But well, that's a that's a really good perspective.

733
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I never looked at it from

734
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: that way. I should. I definitely like the idea of,

735
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: you know, trying to step back and saying, Okay, well,

736
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: this person is asked me because it's of importance to them,

737
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: which I think is very, very probably the most important

738
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: part of that UM. But yeah, I don't I mean

739
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm being totally transparent about our conversation.

740
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: Some of all this stuff that we're talking about is related,

741
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: because sometimes when I'm talking about things, or even when

742
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: I'm having conversations about people, sometimes I'm worried if I'm

743
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: coming off as that person to where they're just you know,

744
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: I'm I'm always like conscious of Okay, am I being

745
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: looked at? Is this person that's like trying to make

746
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: it an industry? Because I mean I do even though

747
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: some people say I've made an industry, in my mind,

748
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: I'm still just like everyone else. I mean, I feel

749
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: like I'm no different than you. I don't feel like

750
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm a Joe Rogan. I feel like I'm no different

751
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,959
Speaker 1: than you, feeling I'm no different than Remy. I feel

752
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: like we're walking around that show and you know, we're

753
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: all still trying to, you know, to trying to voice

754
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: our opinion on what we feel like is good for

755
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: the industry or good for the you know, the people

756
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: out there that are hunting or shooting or you know.

757
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: I feel like I still have I'm still trying to

758
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: like give my message out about what I feel like

759
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: people should do too to overcome target panic or things

760
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: like that, and I don't, I don't feel like I

761
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I don't see myself as being

762
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: a person that is on the pedestal board. I don't

763
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: have to fight for that. Still, so sometimes when I

764
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: walk around there, I do feel uncomfortable because I'm like,

765
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to be putting this corner

766
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: where people aren't really listening to what I'm saying. Think

767
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: about how think about how strange that environment is too.

768
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that this year walking around a

769
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: t A specifically, like for you, UM and guys like

770
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: Cam and Remy and people that are you know that

771
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 1: are influencers that are seen that way by both the

772
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: public and then also UM companies brands. You you live

773
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: your daily life, right, You're in Iowa, You're you're working hard,

774
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: you're putting out content, You're you're working on your farm,

775
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: You're doing all this stuff. And that's a relatively normal

776
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: life like your outlets of the world of social media.

777
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: And that's great, I mean, that's that's a great way,

778
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: a great prism for people to see you in. But

779
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: then when you walk into this giant exhibit hall with

780
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: ten ft tall pictures of the same people that you

781
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: just think are your friends and the and you know,

782
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: billboards with faces on them that you just like to

783
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: hang out with and have a beer, and signings with

784
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: lines down the block for somebody who you just you know,

785
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: worked out with a couple of hours ago. Like it

786
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: just it becomes this weird feeling of there's me just

787
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: in my normal life, and then there's like influence for

788
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: me that has to be a certain way. And I'm

789
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,959
Speaker 1: sure that's weird for you. I mean, it doesn't happen

790
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: to me, and I would be weird for me. So

791
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure when you see yourself as just a normal

792
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: guy fighting to to tell people this your own story

793
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: and the things you're you care about, then you walk

794
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: into a room and you're being you know, you're being

795
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: put up as an icon in some way, that's weird

796
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: because in that room every booth has a giant billboards

797
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: with these faces on it and and ladies too, and

798
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: you become something I think maybe a little bit different

799
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: than than what you know, how you see yourself. Is

800
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: that is that right? Or am I just talking bullshit?

801
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: And you're not exempt? And I'll say that because you

802
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: know when I was when I was in control of

803
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: a big marketing budget, and when I was you know,

804
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: international sales and marketing manager at Matthews. Do you have

805
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: the same You're you're still on you know, you're still

806
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: that guy, just kind of at a different position. Instead

807
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: of everyone wanting to come to you for maybe signing

808
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: an eight by ten, everybody's coming to you to try

809
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: to sign an eight by eleven contract. That's the truth.

810
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you're different, right, I mean it's the same

811
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: people are coming up to you, like you know, say

812
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: we're at that table. People may come up and say, hey,

813
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: I on my one ere autograph, you know, the green tree.

814
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: But someone could easily come up to you, but iPad say, Ben,

815
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: do you think you could check out this new pilot?

816
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: We did. Yeah, it's just it's just different. It's just

817
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 1: on a different level. But it's the same. Yeah, No, absolutely,

818
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: Oh you're right. I never thought about that like that,

819
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean you get attention for different reasons,

820
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: and really, what like, what is this conversation we're having

821
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: about other than attention? You know, who who's earned it,

822
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: who hasn't earned it? How do you gauge that? Is?

823
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: Their rules? To, you know, to kind of make sure

824
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: the folks that are getting the bulk of the attention

825
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: are doing it for the right reasons. UM. And I

826
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 1: struggle with that personally, Like, you know, sometimes I feel

827
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: like if I if I shut off social media right now,

828
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: would I get the same type of experience when I

829
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: was hunting if I knew no one would see it

830
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: unless I spoke to them personally, Like, I'm not sure

831
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: the way my brain has been trained here recently, that

832
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: I would get the same enjoyment out of it. I'm

833
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: not sure if not being able to share that with

834
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: a big, massive amount of people, UM would feel the

835
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: same for me. And that's pretty scary, Like I think,

836
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: how dare you? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's true.

837
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: Maybe that the idea that if I shot this animal

838
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: only what I've found is when I'm on, when I'm

839
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: on experiences with true friends, which to me translate into

840
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: hunts that were authentic to when I was hunting with

841
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: family or friends. UM. Now, there's been times were for example,

842
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: last year, when you and I were in Lena, I

843
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: you a asked me to take over their Instagram, right, Yeah,

844
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: so I did. But there's been other opportunities. I mean,

845
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: were you and I posting all the time when you

846
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: and I were hunting it together here in Iowa. No,

847
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: did we do what our job required of us. Later, Yes,

848
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: when I was just in Oklahoma hunting with Andy and Torsten,

849
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, I was off the map to everyone else,

850
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: and the reason was because I was truly enjoying hunting

851
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: to the core of what hunting is to me. I

852
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: can tell you that I do social media out of

853
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: obligation to two people. One one person is my sponsors

854
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: because I have to, and the second is to my

855
00:55:54,840 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: followers because I appreciate them. If it came back to me, like,

856
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: there's no way I would be on there, Like when

857
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: when Joe and I hug hunted together a year ago

858
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: in California. I mean, I have hundreds of pictures from

859
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: our hunt that to me, those are things that I

860
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: look at when I'm really wanting to enjoy a moment

861
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: with a friend and I think, we gotta, man, we

862
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: gotta freaking keep that alive, Like we have to keep

863
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: these moments to where they're truly special, to the ones

864
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: that we're closest to, because you know, when some of

865
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: this stuff is when some of this stuff goes to everybody,

866
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: it's hard to say that there's true importance to it.

867
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: And that's how I am with you know, I've I've

868
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: been there. It's it's hard for me when I'm on

869
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: a hunt where I'm really loving it two and I'm

870
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: with people that are really care about and I'm like

871
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: enjoying conversation and really engulfed in a memory, It's hard

872
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: for me to want to put that on pause to

873
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: capture to someone that's not in the moment. I mean,

874
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: that gets hard for me. Maybe that's weird. Maybe it

875
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: may me. Maybe I'm the weird guy. No, we're both weird.

876
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: But I think probably most people listening would say, a

877
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: couple of guys that get to huntle over and oh,

878
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: you've heartbroken about whether you should post or not? Screw you.

879
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: Like I could see that being a thought, But I

880
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: think what you're saying is relevant to anyone that wants

881
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: to share their story and whatever venue they want to

882
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: share it, Like, how much of it is, how much

883
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: of what you're doing is about the end result and

884
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: and what it looks like to everyone else, and how

885
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: much of it is about how it feels to you?

886
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: And how much personal rewards you get from it. I mean,

887
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: I talked in the last to our boy, Aubrey Marcus

888
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: last podcast, and you made a short guest appearance which

889
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate, and we talked about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation

890
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: from a guy named Johan Harry that I heard on

891
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: Rogan's podcast, and that was the same exact conversation we

892
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: were having right now. Like intrinsic being you know, you're

893
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: you're personally rewarded by an activity, and you kind of

894
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: lose time in doing it and you're not worried about

895
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: anyone else or what they might think or how how

896
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: you might be rewarded. And then that extrinsic piece is

897
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: you're doing something and you're always worrying about the reward

898
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the time, at the end of

899
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: the day, you're always worried about what everybody might think

900
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: or how you can tell everyone about what you're doing,

901
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: and you lose some part of the intrinsic value and

902
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: and going and doing the thing, whatever the thing might be.

903
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: So it seems like that's a common thread and everybody

904
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking to, maybe because I always bring it up,

905
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: but uh, it's interesting to me. That's an interesting subject

906
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: of the motivations. And then I mean, do you remember

907
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: a time before you were a professional UM in the

908
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: hunting space where you like the last you know, maybe

909
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: the last vestiges of of prior to social media, prior

910
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: to your TV show, and you were just hunting for yourself,

911
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: and you know, I know you also were competing in

912
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 1: archery tournaments and you were driven to just go hunt

913
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: more than you were to be a professional UM target archer.

914
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: I mean that I think that that story in and

915
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: of itself could probably inform this Oh yeah, well I'd

916
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: like to compete. I mean, at first I wanted to

917
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: compete because I was competitive, But the reality is it

918
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: didn't take very long for me to realize that. I

919
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: kind of realized that after I won. When I won

920
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: my first national championship, I was so excited about it.

921
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: I got this trophy and brought it home and then,

922
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, nine months later, I could barely read the

923
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: name on the on this big freaking mug because it

924
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: was just black with tarnish. So I had to clean

925
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: it up and you know, polish it all that stuff.

926
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: And then I remember the next year, someone was said

927
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: something like, hey, who won this last year? You know,

928
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: we're in a tournament and someone else want it. And

929
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: I was sitting there. But meanwhile, while I was watching

930
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: someone else win it, someone said, well who won this

931
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: last year? And I had to have the conversation, Oh,

932
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: I want it last year, and they're like, oh, okay,

933
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: oh cool and uh And then I realized, wait a minute.

934
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: The reason people are walking on walking around with like

935
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: their shirt that says Billy Bob National Champion, it's not

936
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: like it's it's not because they earned the title. It's

937
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: because no one remembers that. The next year they're trying

938
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: to like remind everybody. So I just got to the

939
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: point where I'm like, you know, this stuff, unless it

940
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: mean something to you, it doesn't mean anything anyone else.

941
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: That's a great point. So what means something to me

942
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: is going on the hunt. That's what means something to me,

943
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: not going to a tournament. I went to a tournament

944
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: so that when I went to a hunt, I was

945
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: going to get something. Yeah, that's truth. So you know,

946
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: when for the longest time, I never posted I've never

947
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: posted posted my accomplishments on like my website or anything,

948
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: and people got to the point where they're like, hey,

949
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: do you have a bio or something to me. We're

950
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: trying to write about this and we kind of know

951
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: you've done some stuff, but none of that's out there,

952
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, I guess I need to put

953
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: it out there. But in the same sense I competed

954
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: to be a better bow hunter, I didn't because I

955
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: realized pretty quick that when you compete, you know, well,

956
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: tell me this, do you know the rain? The olmer is,

957
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: of course, what is it? What title does he want

958
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: as an archer? They'll know bad ass. That's the only

959
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: one I know. See, that's my point. So it's, uh,

960
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a That's another tough thing, you

961
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: know nowadays imagine social media and competition. You can instantly

962
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: be a world champion and you can run, you can

963
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: freaking run the whole finish line. But that but your

964
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: reality is what does it really mean? It's tough now,

965
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: You're right, I mean that's it's always trying to figure out.

966
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: I like what you said, thinking like that's like Nolan

967
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: Ryan saying, yeah, man, only I was only a baseball

968
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: player so I could throw rocks at deer. I wanted

969
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: to get better throw those rocks, saying I wanted to

970
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: see him throw a rock and a deer. That kind

971
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: of I kind of do too. I think you'd probably

972
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: have a good effect. Would never do that. Hey, I

973
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: told you I have two questions for you to my

974
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: second one for it. So my second one is you

975
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: made a post one time, which is still and I

976
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: haven't even talked to you about this, which I think

977
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: is what's cool about the podcast is it's authentic. She

978
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: made a podcast specifically about trophy photos. Remember it? I

979
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: do remember it. Yeah, there's no way I can forget

980
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: it now that I did it. Okay, So do you

981
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: want to talk about it? Sure? For those that don't know,

982
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a Gritty Bowman podcast that we did

983
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: talking about it. But I basically, um, I just watched

984
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: the film Trophy. They just came out the scene in documentary,

985
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: and I just talked a bunch of people and and

986
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: I just started thinking about the history of hunting and

987
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: kind of my own history in it, and where the

988
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: trophy thing came from. And I was started thinking about

989
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: the history of trophy photos or gripping grins or whatever.

990
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: And then I started thinking, like why I do it,

991
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: and um, how weird. It probably looks to other people

992
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: that we like dump water to get the blood off

993
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: and stick their tongues back in their mouths and drag

994
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: them off to a nice vista and take a photo.

995
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: And I said, just for myself, I think that this

996
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: trophy photo is wrapped up in a lot of negativity

997
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: for a lot of people for whatever reason. Um likely

998
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: because when we flipped the switch to social media, people

999
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: started to see these little trading cards almost that that

1000
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: people used to just hand each other. You know you were,

1001
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure you were many many years at trade shows

1002
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: with your with like a binder full of photos, right,

1003
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: like trophy photos that used to that used to be

1004
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: the thing, and show people this is what I did

1005
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, that was that was the thing, right.

1006
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: So we took those binders of photos and we started

1007
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: uploading them to the damn Internet, and people started to

1008
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: see him and no one understood what that was. That

1009
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: was like like a special little language we had with

1010
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: each other that had become important over the years, and

1011
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: then it started getting uploaded. I think regular folks looked

1012
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: at that and saw the message a negative message like

1013
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: this person is happy too, and celebrating to have taken

1014
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: this life and look how they're demonstrating it. So it's

1015
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: nice to say I can talk forever, but it's ufice

1016
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: to say I just posted that. Look. I think for

1017
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: my own mind, I'm going to take that image that

1018
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: has been a little bit negative for a lot of

1019
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: people and and change that in my own activities and

1020
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: and try to put out an image that respects the

1021
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: animal totally, however that might look. And it's you know,

1022
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: certain instance, I'm not gonna completely stage every photo I

1023
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: take when I kill an animal, but I am going

1024
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: to make sure whenever we do that that I feel

1025
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: like it's shows respect and I feel like everybody should

1026
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: do that too. And I think that's or something like that,

1027
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: something to that effect. That's probably where I was wrong.

1028
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: Everybody can can do what they want to do. What

1029
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: the hell do I know? But I put a pull

1030
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: up and I lost. I lost like eighty award as

1031
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: with should hunters not not do gripping runs anymore? But

1032
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: I was still happy to have started the conversation. And

1033
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot of people just you know, wagging

1034
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: their finger at me and saying, you know, how dare you?

1035
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe I should have worded it differently, but

1036
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: I just at the moment, in that moment, thinking the

1037
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: way I was, I thought, I really want to just

1038
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: say this outright and not hedge on it and not

1039
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: um not hedge with my ideas are and it's quite

1040
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: garnered a quite a lot of commentary. Cool, it means

1041
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity. I mean, obviously now someone that's I mean,

1042
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm authentic and asking the question. Because for me, I

1043
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: took pictures. When I started taking pictures of my animals,

1044
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: I took pictures with thirty five million meters. There was

1045
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: no iPhones. You didn't see what the picture was, you

1046
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 1: didn't know if the exposure was right. There was no

1047
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: photo shop. I mean, I took pictures, and I took

1048
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: rolls of photos for one animal, took him to Walmart,

1049
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: paid for the one hour photo just to hope that

1050
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: one photo was good, and like, you know, something that

1051
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: I would have with me for all the time. So

1052
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: from that aspect, I can I disagreed with you. But

1053
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: on the other hand, there's a lot of photos that

1054
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 1: go out on social media that people are ignorant and

1055
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: not expecting people to disagree with. So I just said,

1056
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: I actually voted that I mean, and I don't think

1057
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean told you this, but I I voted against

1058
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: the non group and print because for me, my pictures

1059
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: and rolls and rolls and roll of the film that

1060
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: I took to try to get one photo which I

1061
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: saved and I have downstairs, you know, and kind of

1062
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 1: been my safe of oh yeah, here's a photo I

1063
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: showed shot back in the nineties. Um, I'm proud of that.

1064
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: Like in at that time, I couldn't even afford I

1065
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: couldn't afford to mount things. So my photo literally that

1066
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 1: was my mount, like that was that was my trophy.

1067
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't, you know. And and truthfully, a lot of

1068
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: the stuff that I shot years ago, I don't even know,

1069
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: you know, they've just been lost and moving ng or

1070
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 1: broken or whatever. But I still have photos. So I

1071
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 1: was passionate about I don't agree with not having the

1072
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: grip and grand but I also know that when I

1073
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: was sitting there selecting photos for a catalog back again,

1074
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 1: when you open up an envelope and you look at

1075
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: photos and you're like, oh, what'sh what photos should we

1076
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: put in the catalog? You weren't like looking at someone

1077
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: social media saying, oh, these guys have two hundred fifty followers,

1078
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: they need to be in our catalog. You were just saying,

1079
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: who's got a good photo, and you would look and

1080
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: be like, holy crap, this guy. Um do you remember

1081
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: Lane last? Damn it. Don't do this too, man. This

1082
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: is gonna be like that time you and Rogue and

1083
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: argued about you're going to get hung for not no

1084
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: in his name? You know what I'm talking about. This

1085
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: would be about the time we were in the nine

1086
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: recorded a Rogan podcast and you guys are arguing about

1087
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 1: the name of a fighter for like three I know,

1088
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: and I actually had to track him down and be

1089
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: like did I want to fight? And he's like, no,

1090
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: you didn't. Not there, you didn't. I was like, okay,

1091
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: thinks well yeah. So there were people that were that

1092
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: we're like really good photographers, So you were you were like,

1093
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: or at least me, I was. I was trying to

1094
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: make a photo to where if that person looked at it,

1095
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 1: they'd be like, Wow, that's a very respectful, nice photo

1096
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: of their deer. But then all of a sudden you'd

1097
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: get someone that shot a buck in Iowa and it

1098
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: would be you know, tongue hanging out, blood drew out

1099
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: of its nostril. And when he's back in, you know,

1100
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: in the back of a Ford pickup truck, is you know,

1101
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of like moldy bud light uh boxes in

1102
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: the background, and they're like, Okay, this is a ridiculously

1103
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 1: cool buck. But obviously it's tongue hanging out and there's

1104
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: blood hanging out, and there's like a bunch of beer

1105
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,839
Speaker 1: cans in the back of this guy's car. He shouldn't

1106
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: be drinking and driving. And you know, yeah, thanks for

1107
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: the photo, but no, we can't put it in our

1108
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 1: catalogs um um that aspect. You're right, you know, if

1109
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: if that is some people's grip and grin, it's it

1110
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: doesn't represent as well. Yeah, well I would. Just the

1111
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: other thing I was coming to is that, and talked

1112
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: about it on the Gritty Bone podcast is like, I,

1113
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, I work at Yeddie and I live in

1114
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:59,719
Speaker 1: a town that's, you know, decidedly even though it's in Texas,

1115
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: it's decidedly urban, and there's a lot of folks that

1116
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,639
Speaker 1: don't go outside um too much and do what we do.

1117
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: And so I live in a in a space where. Um.

1118
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: I've had the conversation all week this week at work.

1119
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just trying to introduce people to

1120
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: the idea of hunting, not not the particular points in

1121
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: a little um micro arguments we have inside of hunting.

1122
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm talking just the general idea of what the hell

1123
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: we're out there doing. Um. And so I always link

1124
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: that idea back to in journalism school when I went

1125
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: from what I remember between trips to the barn and

1126
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: such it was, it was always it was always like, hey,

1127
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 1: know your audience. That's the first rule of journalism. Know

1128
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: your audience. Know who you're speaking to, um, know who

1129
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: might see the thing you're doing. So in the case

1130
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: that that you bring up of like a Matthew's catalog,

1131
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: you know who your audience is. You know where that

1132
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: thing is gonna end up, um, And so you can

1133
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: and you can postcript and grins and something like that.

1134
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: I would say, like, I'm okay and venue. When everybody

1135
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 1: understands what a group and grin is, every hunter understands

1136
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: it's not disrespect, it's respect. Um, I'm okay with a

1137
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: group and grin if you were just showing it to

1138
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: me or me showing to you. The issue I have

1139
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: when when you put it online is that it then

1140
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: you're maybe not clear of who your audience really is. Um,

1141
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: even though you have a certain set of followers, it's

1142
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: pretty much open. I think it's fair you don't know. Yeah,

1143
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I mean, you don't fair to

1144
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 1: say you freaking have no clue. I mean, look look

1145
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 1: at the people we've met through social media. Absolutely we

1146
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: don't have any freak So okay, let's just stop there.

1147
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: We have no idea. Who's right, we have no idea? Yeah,

1148
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean there's ways you can mitigate it, and like,

1149
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: I have a private thing and a private profile, and

1150
01:14:57,800 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: but you don't have no idea? Yeah, so in Mike,

1151
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: most people don't. I would say from you, how about Torson? Yeah,

1152
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: we have no idea, no idea, And so would I ever?

1153
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: Would I ever imagine that I make a post about

1154
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 1: buying my kid a freaking ninety dollar vinyl record player

1155
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: at a guitar center for his birthday and buying a

1156
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: one Led Zeppelin record man posting about it, and then

1157
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,719
Speaker 1: next thing I know, the freaking one of the head

1158
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:38,959
Speaker 1: honchos that Atlantic Records is freaking sent me the package

1159
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 1: in the mail because he because he sees them passionate

1160
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: about vinyl. Yeah, yeah, we really have no idea. And

1161
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 1: so that's my general if journalism in the decorum works here,

1162
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: if you say, like, hey, look, you don't know on

1163
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: social media, you don't know who your audience really is.

1164
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, you can't control it. If you think

1165
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 1: if you think that's wrong, then in that environment it

1166
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: makes sense to kind of not completely sense yourself and

1167
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 1: and somebody to take a hard left turn. At this conversation,

1168
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: somebody commented to me like, well, we live in this

1169
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: snowflake society where the meat too movement tells us what

1170
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: we have to do. And I'm not going to bend

1171
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: to anybody, Like yeah, I get you, but like, let's

1172
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 1: meet some Let's meet somewhere in the middle. Let's not

1173
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 1: change everything we do for everyone or nothing we do

1174
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: for no one. Let's in the middle somewhere say like,

1175
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: because we don't know who's looking at this, let's change

1176
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: it up a little bit to take away the things

1177
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 1: that someone might view as negative. Because the grip and

1178
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: your in things not so important to me that I

1179
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: have to have it, you know, I could give up

1180
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: parts of that and still get the same experience of

1181
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: hunting as I as I would otherwise, I don't losing anything.

1182
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: And so I don't know. Maybe I'm convincing. You may

1183
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: be not, But I think that's just been my own

1184
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 1: personal slant on it. And I think we're pretty quick,

1185
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: we're pretty slow to change, pretty pretty quick in the

1186
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: hunting industry, in the hunting world. To kind of deny changes,

1187
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: it's staring us in the face. I think in this case,

1188
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 1: it's it's nice to have the conversation whether it's the

1189
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 1: right or wrong thing to do. And like I don't

1190
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: even know it was. It was the late nineties. I

1191
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: was in the softball tournament Sparta, Wisconsin, small community. We're

1192
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: sitting there, we're in the We're in the championship of

1193
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 1: this baseball tournament, and I'm playing baseball for Matthews, who

1194
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 1: was a business in our community. And we're playing against

1195
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: this other team and it's for all the marbles. It's

1196
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 1: you know, we're in this championship deal, So I freaking

1197
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: us crush this softball into like left field, the left

1198
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 1: center outfielder in the left fielder. They're both running for

1199
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: this ball and they're boats just like so focused on

1200
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 1: me catching these balls, but I could be out. They

1201
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: just freaking I'm talking cranium to cranium. Just boom. They

1202
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: freaking run into one another and they're both laying out

1203
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: on the sidelines. Well, here's the owner of our company,

1204
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,600
Speaker 1: Matt Mkerson. He had never he had never went to

1205
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: another softball game ever, but he knew Matthews was in

1206
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: the finals. We're in the championship. So Matt came. He's in,

1207
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: He's in the stands and here's Matt, you know, devout Christian,

1208
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 1: loves people, all about the community. And here's two guys

1209
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: that run for a ball that was hit by a

1210
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: Matthews employee. And these guys freaking her post told talk

1211
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: laying on the side of the freaking side by side.

1212
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: They're literally laying side by side the balls. They're like,

1213
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 1: I could have ran for a home run, but everybody

1214
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 1: just stopped, like, oh my god, and these guys are dead.

1215
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: So Matt runs out to outfield from the stands and

1216
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: he's sitting there and knowing Matt, he's like willing to

1217
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 1: can I pay for your freaking hospital bills? Oh my gosh,

1218
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this never would happen if Matthews would have

1219
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 1: been playing you guys in the finals, right, Like, this

1220
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: is I know Matt well enough to know this is

1221
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: his mentality. So the guy comes to and Matt's like,

1222
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,799
Speaker 1: oh my god, are you okay? He's like, hey, buddy,

1223
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 1: are you all right? Are you right? And the guys

1224
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: just like, oh, it's just dropped the biggest F bomb ever.

1225
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 1: And you can just tell Matt being who he is,

1226
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,639
Speaker 1: he just instantly switched off. And he went from being

1227
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: someone that was whether can help you or your family

1228
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: or anything because of this catastrophe to like, okay, he's

1229
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 1: turned off. And the same is true. You know, if

1230
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 1: we go into a meeting with their bosses and we

1231
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: talk like we're at a frat party, or if we

1232
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 1: talk like we're at a night out with a bunch

1233
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: of pirates, you you just your voice does not get hurt.

1234
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: It's looked at from a completely different point of view.

1235
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:46,799
Speaker 1: So why do people feel like it's not the same

1236
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 1: for hunting? Yeah, I don't know. Don't attack something from

1237
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: a professional point of view. You're not ever going to

1238
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 1: get your opinion heard. I mean, you can you can

1239
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 1: be someone that is at the top of your food chain.

1240
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 1: But as soon as you start speaking at a very

1241
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: very unprofessional level, no matter what your credibility is, it's degraded.

1242
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: That's reality, our opinions and our stance as hunters and

1243
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: what you know. I saw a picture from the hunting community.

1244
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 1: I saw this on Facebook. Actually screenshot at it because

1245
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 1: I couldn't even believe it. But someone took a picture

1246
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 1: of their car with like a bunch of dead deer

1247
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 1: that were frozen in a position that and they like

1248
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 1: staged them all to look like Santa Slagh. It's like,

1249
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: how can you? I mean, I understand the fact you're like,

1250
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 1: it's a free world, I can do what I want,

1251
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 1: But how do you think that anything you fight for

1252
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: is ever going to be accepted if that's the way

1253
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,680
Speaker 1: that you attack it. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the reality,

1254
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 1: and that's it just boils down the tack attacked one

1255
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: oh one, Yeah, right for sure, And then you you

1256
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: can kind of hit the nail on the head there

1257
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 1: at some level when it's it's you see what happened

1258
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: in British Columbia with the ban on grizzly bear hunting.

1259
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean it that was based on popular opinions. So

1260
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 1: you're we all love something that is not given wasn't

1261
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: given us to us by right? I mean it is

1262
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: in the modern sense of privilege, you know it. Sure

1263
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: we have this heritage with it going back millions of years,

1264
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:58,639
Speaker 1: and it's connected to our humanity. But in the modern sense,

1265
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 1: it's really a different it's a different ball game, and

1266
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 1: we could lose whatever whatever we think hunting is if

1267
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: we don't um presented in the right way to the

1268
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: rest of the world, and the rest of the world

1269
01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:14,879
Speaker 1: was looking at us saying basically asking the single question,

1270
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 1: is this thing good for us and for animals? Is

1271
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: it good? Continue to convince me. As society changes and

1272
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: as we change as humans, they're they're gonna keep asking

1273
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:31,799
Speaker 1: that question. We gotta keep answering it. Um as technology changes,

1274
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 1: as we change, is you know they can carrying capacity

1275
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: of lands change and conservation principles change, Like, we have

1276
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: to continue to answer that question, and if we if

1277
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 1: we answer it wrong enough times, they're just going to

1278
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:49,879
Speaker 1: take it away. And and as evidence in in British Columbia,

1279
01:23:50,240 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, you were right. I legitimately think it's a

1280
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 1: matter of when someone moves into a position that gets

1281
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 1: enough I guess, gets enough pressure from one side to

1282
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: change something, it will change. It doesn't even matter if

1283
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:21,600
Speaker 1: we do it wrong. That's the reality. So as hunters,

1284
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. Well, I can tell you

1285
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: this from from my point of view. When people make posts,

1286
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 1: When people make a post on things that I have,

1287
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 1: I actually make a decision on is this a person

1288
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: to where I can oppose their opinion and they're going

1289
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: to look at it objectively or is this a person

1290
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: to where no matter what I say, it doesn't matter.

1291
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: So a lot of times, and I'm sure this is

1292
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: the case. And Ape you have the ability now to

1293
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: research someone before you reply to them. And if every

1294
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: single thing you ever do is just stick it to

1295
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 1: the man, then most likely your ability to have a

1296
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: voice has gone away. Your ability to oppose is meaningless.

1297
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 1: You know, if if everything you've done is just you know, trolling, trolling, trolling, negative,

1298
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 1: being a dick, always voice in that, then what happens

1299
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 1: is when it really matters. It's like crying wolf. What

1300
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: happens is when it really matters and you say, you know,

1301
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do, They're like, whoa,

1302
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 1: this is what you've always done. We don't like that. So,

1303
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:58,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's tricky because as hunters and outdoorsman

1304
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: and passionate passionate conservationists, if we take the high road,

1305
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 1: then what will happen is when we truly have to

1306
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 1: fight for something that matters, we'll have a voice. But

1307
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: if you burn that, man, we're not gonna have it. Yeah,

1308
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 1: And I think that this conversation is like it's never

1309
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 1: ending because all the things and that you do when

1310
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 1: you're hunting, all the little rituals we have and traditions

1311
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: we have, and things we think are normal that maybe

1312
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: um to the rest of the world might not be.

1313
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:43,560
Speaker 1: I mean, those are all important, Like all the complexities

1314
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 1: of hunting are important to the grander scheme of it.

1315
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: So it's not like you can you can change the

1316
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:53,120
Speaker 1: way you take grip and grand photos, but then at

1317
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, also shoot off the hood

1318
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: of your truck or at this like at the same

1319
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 1: time also just for it about conservation its principles and

1320
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 1: not learn anything about our system of of um or

1321
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,680
Speaker 1: our model of wildlife in this country. So it's like

1322
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 1: you hunting kind of asked a lot of you, you know,

1323
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: it asked a ton of you, both in knowledge and skill,

1324
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: but also and just to be able to deduce what's

1325
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:24,680
Speaker 1: good for the grander um platform, which that's freaking hard, man, Like,

1326
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: there's no way. A lot of people just want to

1327
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 1: go out and get some meat or go out and

1328
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 1: have a good time, and and um, asking them all

1329
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: to take part in that to that extent can be tough.

1330
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,320
Speaker 1: But I think just having the conversation and you being

1331
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 1: willing to talk about it in this way rather than

1332
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: just being you bullshit and drinking beers talking about whatever

1333
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate because it's I mean, somebody might listen to

1334
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,600
Speaker 1: this and come out with just a slightly different perspective

1335
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: or or just one of the things we've said is

1336
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 1: helpful to them, then great, man, Hell yeah, because that's

1337
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 1: what That's what helped me become a better hunter. Listening

1338
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: to guys like you and listening to guys like Ronnella

1339
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 1: Remy Warren talked about their experiences and that ship that

1340
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 1: made me better, maybe way way better. Well, I couldn't

1341
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:16,560
Speaker 1: agree with you more, dude, I couldn't agree with you more. Um,

1342
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:19,599
Speaker 1: that's a good place to end it. I think, Uh,

1343
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 1: we're done. Now until what did you say, the end

1344
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: of April, when we're going somewhere real special, you want

1345
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 1: to break the news to everybody where we're going and

1346
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,839
Speaker 1: who's coming with yep, just so everyone out there knows

1347
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: come April. The end of April, um, I would say

1348
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 1: the most I don't know, I don't even know how

1349
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: to say it. It's the most ununbelievable band of brotherhood

1350
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 1: and I don't even know, don't we don't even have

1351
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:07,960
Speaker 1: a name for ourselves. But let's not name ourselves because

1352
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: then it starts to get a negative vibe on it.

1353
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 1: But literally, Lenai is gonna be taken over by me,

1354
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 1: Ben sam sohol Shane Dorian, Remy Warren, Adam Green Tree,

1355
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, cam Haignes. I think that's it. I feel

1356
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 1: like you had a lot of momentum to keep going

1357
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 1: appearances by Kimmy, Green Tree and Fresh. That's a large,

1358
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 1: large crew. I mean, there's a there's a lot going

1359
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 1: on there. But I will say that what's cool about

1360
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: that and where we're going at the end of April

1361
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: is that you know, we start playing these trips and

1362
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:06,679
Speaker 1: you're like, may we we can't go without Green Tree

1363
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 1: Ship we can't go without Remy Man. We can't go

1364
01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 1: without cam. Now, we can't go without Rogan, we can't

1365
01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 1: go without Dudley. And it just becomes this awesome group

1366
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: of people that are all passionate about the same thing

1367
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 1: and all just want to hang man, like you gotta

1368
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:24,639
Speaker 1: have you gotta have everybody. So this is the first

1369
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: time we've been able to like assemble the entire dream

1370
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 1: team of of people that like to go hunting. I'm

1371
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 1: looking forward to it. Dynamite. Oh well, we'll we'll certainly

1372
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: talk more about that in the days to come. But

1373
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:42,599
Speaker 1: thanks for talking to me, John Dudley. Oh yeah, brother,

1374
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Until next time. Bye bye. All right, Oh

1375
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: that's the end. That's the end of episode number four.

1376
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to John Dudley man from knock On,

1377
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: one of my favorite people in the industry. Appreciate him

1378
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: having that conversation with me. And really took a lot

1379
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 1: away from it. I really took away an inside take

1380
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:12,440
Speaker 1: from the mind of somebody that's influential and our circles

1381
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:15,840
Speaker 1: and cares about that influence and it really wants it

1382
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: to be authentic and wants to drive it in the

1383
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:22,400
Speaker 1: right way. I appreciate John for that. He's a great dude.

1384
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:25,440
Speaker 1: If you want to hear any of the other podcasts

1385
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 1: we put out thus far, go to iTunes or Stitcher

1386
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,920
Speaker 1: or the Hunting Collective dot com, where you can hear

1387
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 1: from Steve Ranella, a meat eater. You can hear from

1388
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:39,599
Speaker 1: Brian Callahan of First Light, you can hear from Aubrey

1389
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 1: Marcus CEO of on It, and this continued conversation that

1390
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: we call the Hunting Collective very much. Appreciate it as always.

1391
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: You can follow me at Benny O B three oh one,

1392
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 1: Come check us out on Instagram. That's really where all

1393
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:58,120
Speaker 1: the conversations happening. I just want to say I appreciate

1394
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:02,280
Speaker 1: everybody who writes in, who's commented, emailed. We're gonna do

1395
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:04,799
Speaker 1: a whole show here coming soon, just with the email

1396
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: thoughts and commentary, because you guys are all part of

1397
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: this conversation that we're having, and I appreciate every comment,

1398
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:17,200
Speaker 1: good and bad. Please keep him coming. I'd like to

1399
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 1: also thank our sponsors. There aren't any, but if you're

1400
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: listening and you want to sponsor, let me know, because

1401
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:33,880
Speaker 1: we're poor. Come on anyway, that's it for today. Much

1402
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 1: appreciate all of you. I love you. Hi.