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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel cast. Bonjeur, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was gonna be my one as well, Yeah, Jael, Kathleen.

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Speaker 1: And that's the extent of the French that I know.

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Speaker 1: I know. I was in French club in third grade

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Speaker 1: and I learned how to count to ten, and then

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Speaker 1: that's about it. I don't know if I dare not

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Speaker 1: go further. Um so that we're fluent in French, as

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Speaker 1: you can tell, extremely fluent. Welcome to the Beachdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: My name is, My name is uh Kathleen, Jemmapel, Jamie Loff.

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Speaker 1: Know what the French pronunciation would be, Kaitly. We should

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Speaker 1: paint each other. I mean this movie, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: joke has been made before, I'm sure, but this movie

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Speaker 1: really gives new meaning to the phrase draw me like

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Speaker 1: one of your French girls. Wow, there it is there,

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Speaker 1: it is. This is our podcast though, it's the Bechtel Cast,

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Speaker 1: and this is a today recovering a movie that has

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Speaker 1: been requested. I want to say, conservatively five million times

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Speaker 1: everyone at least on this episode and here it is

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Speaker 1: here it finally is everybody. This is our podcast in

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Speaker 1: which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point, that,

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Speaker 1: of course, being a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alison Bechtel. This is one of those movies where the

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Speaker 1: origins of the Bechtel test really come into play because

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Speaker 1: perhaps a little known fact, although we've mentioned it many

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Speaker 1: times on the pod Test in the past, is that

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Speaker 1: the context in which the Bechtel Test happens in Alison

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Speaker 1: Bechtel's Dikes to Watch Out For that was published in

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Speaker 1: is that her characters are basically looking at movies to

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Speaker 1: see if women ever talked to each other about something

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Speaker 1: other than a man, because if they don't, the characters

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Speaker 1: in the comic can ship the characters in the movie

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Speaker 1: that they're watching, ship them together and pretend that they

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Speaker 1: are queer women in love. So the context of the

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Speaker 1: comic makes it all the better. If you haven't read

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Speaker 1: I I like just recently read through like the whole

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Speaker 1: collection of Dikes to Watch Out For and it's it's

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Speaker 1: so good. It's so good. It's uh, some of the

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Speaker 1: best world building in the entire comics planet. And they

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Speaker 1: and they're always like the characters in that series are

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Speaker 1: always going to movies. They're always giving the hottest take

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Speaker 1: that hold up extremely well thirty years later. Nice. Yeah

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Speaker 1: hell yeah. So. Our version of the vector test, as

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Speaker 1: it's evolved over the years, is that two people of

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Speaker 1: any marginalized gender have names speak to each other about

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Speaker 1: something other than a man, and ideally their conversation is

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Speaker 1: like plot relevant or significant narratively in some way. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to have a problem today. Today's start. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be a okay because we're covering Portrait of

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Speaker 1: a Lady on Fire. Uh yeah again, it's a movie

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Speaker 1: we've gotten an incredible number of requests for and the

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Speaker 1: time is now, and we have an incredible guest to

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Speaker 1: cover this movie with us. We certainly do. She is

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Speaker 1: a comedian, actor, a writer whose work has been featured

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Speaker 1: in Reductress, Off mag and Plot Twist. It's Chloe Kunya. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome here. Yeah, this is exciting. It was very hard

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Speaker 1: not to say something during the Yeah, if you if

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Speaker 1: you have any French that you'd like to teach us

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Speaker 1: any any Yeah. Yeah, I thought about it and I think, um, so,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be Kathleen Durrant, all right. You

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Speaker 1: just we don't like to just not pronounce letters a lot,

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Speaker 1: so that at the end we'd be like no and

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Speaker 1: we're not going to do it. And then I think

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Speaker 1: it would be Jami Nice. That's better. Yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: get a little little natal, little nasal energy in there,

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Speaker 1: and you think that's basically French. Yeah, I love it. Bonjem,

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Speaker 1: Bje Kleine, Yeah, you got it. You're crushing it already, Bje, bonjour, Chloe. Um, so,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being here, Thanks for having me excited

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Speaker 1: to chat with you about Portrait of a Lady on Hire.

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Speaker 1: What's your your relationship, your history with this film? Yes,

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Speaker 1: so so obviously I heard about it because it was

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Speaker 1: making huge waves that can um and everybody was like

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Speaker 1: it's gay and it's great. Um So I was excited

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Speaker 1: about it. But interestingly enough, I had seen another of

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Speaker 1: the same director's movies before and I didn't like that one,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't like the one i'd seen, so I

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, okay, well, just because I didn't

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Speaker 1: like that one. Um, doesn't mean that I won't like

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Speaker 1: this one, And so I went to see it in theaters. Um.

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Speaker 1: This was I know. We were when we were emailing,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about, oh, this may have been one

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Speaker 1: of the last for me. I think this was the

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Speaker 1: before last movie I saw in theaters. Um with at

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Speaker 1: the time my girlfriend. We have since split up. Um,

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Speaker 1: so very fascinating to watch the movie again with that,

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Speaker 1: With that perspective, I'm like, oh, no, it's fine and true. Um,

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Speaker 1: your women fashion, we're friends. Um, so you know we're

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Speaker 1: staying friends because what are you gonna do? Um. But

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Speaker 1: but it was interesting to watch it again with that

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Speaker 1: context because I watched it again last night. Um and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, so I remember the first time I watched it.

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Speaker 1: I really loved it. It was, you know, very touching,

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Speaker 1: good movie that I enjoyed quite a lot. And it

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Speaker 1: was fun to watch it again, except again, slightly different

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Speaker 1: personal context for me as I watched it. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's basically the long and the short of my relationship

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Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, very nice, Jamie, what about you? I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry me. My My experience of this movie is it

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Speaker 1: was my last movie I saw in the before times.

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Speaker 1: I saw it, I think like the week before shutdowns.

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Speaker 1: I saw it in an A m C. I got

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Speaker 1: some of that like freaky macaroni they have at the

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Speaker 1: A m C. So I was like, it was like

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Speaker 1: a Tuesday night. It was very I no regrets. I'm glad.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I did it. I went alone on a

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Speaker 1: Tuesday night, cried my eyes out ate a bowl of

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Speaker 1: disgusting macaroni. I didn't even know they had macaroni. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Nancy's are really stepping it up. And well, I mean

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Speaker 1: maybe not in equality, but they're maybe not in the

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Speaker 1: macaroni department, but they have like flatbreads and they have

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Speaker 1: like gourmet sandwiches. Now, I mean in the before time,

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Speaker 1: maybe not that. Maybe they were really I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they were going for, but it was interesting, you know.

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Speaker 1: I and I liked the movie when I first saw it.

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Speaker 1: I do remember as I was leaving, being like, I

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Speaker 1: wish the women in this movie walked a little faster.

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Speaker 1: It was everyone's walking so slow. The whole movie fast

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Speaker 1: walking hadn't been invented yet. Oh yeah, very deliberate time

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Speaker 1: because everyone is walking like three steps an hour. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they've got there. They're wearing such like heavy there's so

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Speaker 1: many layers of fabric. I mean, can you imagine trying

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Speaker 1: to walk with all of those? Me and twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: with my Macaroni, I was like, we gotta speed it up, ladies,

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Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta get to where we're going. But

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Speaker 1: I really liked the movie, and it was felt a

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Speaker 1: little long the first time I saw it, but it

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Speaker 1: was it was cool to watch back for this show.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's absolutely like ideal for our show.

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Speaker 1: So it was it was fun to watch with my

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Speaker 1: Bettel goggles on, certainly what about You. I also saw

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Speaker 1: it in theaters. It got a wide US release, I

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Speaker 1: think February fourteen, So it's like Valentine's Day. Everyone's feeling romantic.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's horned up, you know, you go to see this

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Speaker 1: romantic movie. I think I saw it. I saw it

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Speaker 1: with JT in Boston because we were I think the

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Speaker 1: two both of us were in Boston at that time

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Speaker 1: because we did a show. Yeah, so I saw it,

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Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, this is a beautifully shot movie

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Speaker 1: that is touching and is a half hour longer than

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Speaker 1: it needs to be, So I'll come out and say

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Speaker 1: I think this movie is boring. It's there's there's always

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Speaker 1: one person that's like, it's it's boring. So I understand.

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Speaker 1: I think it has everything to do with the editing.

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Speaker 1: There's so many shots that just go on way longer

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Speaker 1: than they and I'm like, I don't know, I'm like

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Speaker 1: a spoiled like American movie. Everything's quick and snappy, and

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Speaker 1: the editing is tight, and I'm just like used to

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Speaker 1: that type of movies. So I and I'm also just

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Speaker 1: a very impatient person. So I'm like, why is this

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Speaker 1: shot twenty seconds when it could have been ten? You know?

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Speaker 1: So they're lingering so much, it's it's into me. There's

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Speaker 1: so much looking. I don't I don't mind the looking,

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Speaker 1: but they should walk faster. They should look faster, and

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Speaker 1: they should walk faster, you know, at least one of

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Speaker 1: them one or the other, if not both. Um. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: I I mean, I think it's a beautifully crafted movie.

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Speaker 1: I teach it in my screenwriting classes, like it's especially

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Speaker 1: to use it as an example of like a very

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Speaker 1: character driven sort of slice of life narrative. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was, I was like, this could be shorter. Anyway, Um,

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Speaker 1: should we should we just dive into the recap and

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Speaker 1: then go from there. Let's swim right in? Can we swim?

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Speaker 1: I don't know yet? Don't we go? I love when dialogue,

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Speaker 1: especially in a movie like this, where you're just like

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Speaker 1: so sucked into it, where it's like, oh, everything is

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Speaker 1: a metaphor everything everything. I noted there are so many

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Speaker 1: times where they're talking about painting, But are they talking

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Speaker 1: about painting or sex? Return your gaze? Are you comfortable right?

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Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable now, but in a pleasant way. Very horny.

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Speaker 1: It's so horny. It's you know, it's our people. The

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Speaker 1: French people were very horny people. What can I say?

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Speaker 1: It's part of our thing. Okay, So we're in France.

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Speaker 1: I believe it is the eighteenth century. It's the seventeen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: question mark late eighteenth century? Is this post French Revolution?

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Speaker 1: Do we know? Oh, it's gotta be yeah, definitely, I

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Speaker 1: think I believe, Like, oh, no, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 1: I realized I don't know exactly what time it is either.

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Speaker 1: I probably should have looked that up, but I assumed

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Speaker 1: it was like eighteen twenties, maybe because is because of

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Speaker 1: the art and like because it's before the Impressionists. I

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Speaker 1: was also a art history minor, so I didn't even

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Speaker 1: mention that before. Yeah, I know a little bit about

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Speaker 1: art as well, but I assumed it was like beginning

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. But I don't know. I could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's saying end of the eighteenth century and I just

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Speaker 1: bravely googled it. And the French Revolution was at the

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Speaker 1: end of the eighteen century, so maybe it's during we

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Speaker 1: I don't know where to seventeen ninety nine, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the movie doesn't make it clear what year the movie

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Speaker 1: is taking place in, so yeah, that's confusing. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: I I wonder. I'm sure that Selei and Siama like knows,

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Speaker 1: but I am so ignorant of so much history that

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Speaker 1: I was like old dresses. Okay, Okay, I get it,

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Speaker 1: I get it right exactly. Okay. So then we open

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Speaker 1: on Marianne. I'm just maybe not going to try to

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Speaker 1: do French, okay, Okay, great, And she is played by

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Speaker 1: and I will also need help with the actor's name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: is it know? Is that who that is trying to remember? Now?

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Speaker 1: I should name me Marlan um knowing me knowing me,

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Speaker 1: knowing me, Marlan, is that right? Yeah? I mean yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's perfect. Actually it's great. Wow, we're learning. Um. So

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Speaker 1: she is teaching art to girls at a school. One

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Speaker 1: of her students asks about a painting something that marian

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Speaker 1: had painted a long time ago, entitled Portrait of a

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Speaker 1: Lady on Fire, and we're like, that's the name of

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Speaker 1: the movie. I this is like baby getting ahead of

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Speaker 1: ourselves a little bit. But we now that I know that.

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Speaker 1: Like Celine Siama said in an interview with Vox with

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Speaker 1: Emily vander Wert that she was really influenced by Titanic

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Speaker 1: when making this movie. This framing device, You're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: a second and intimate portrait that flashes to the past.

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Speaker 1: I know this setup. We're just missing a necklace and

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Speaker 1: and telling us how many years it's been, because that's

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Speaker 1: a really important How many years has it been, Marianne,

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Speaker 1: it's not definitely less than eighty four years? But or

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Speaker 1: she looks great. She is eighty four years older and

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Speaker 1: looks the exact same. Um. But anyway, so attention is

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Speaker 1: called to a portrait of a lady on fire and

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Speaker 1: it seems to stir up some intense memories and emotions

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Speaker 1: for Marianne. Then we cut back to her arriving at

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Speaker 1: a large estate on a remote island off the coast

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Speaker 1: of mainland France. She has been commissioned by the lady

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Speaker 1: of the house to paint a portrait of her daughter Eloise,

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Speaker 1: to be sent to a nobleman from Milan who Eloise

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Speaker 1: will soon be married to. Marian is greeted by a maid, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: who tells her that Eloise is younger sister who was

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Speaker 1: set to Mary I think the same Milanese nobleman she

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Speaker 1: recently died, and that Eloise has returned after being at

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Speaker 1: a convent for several years, so she now is being

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Speaker 1: kind of set up to marry this same man. We

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Speaker 1: also learn that Eloise does not know that marian is

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Speaker 1: there to paint her portrait. She thinks marian is there

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Speaker 1: to be her companion to go on walks very slow

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Speaker 1: Slois companion. This is so like aristocracy, like gobbledcock. To me,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, yeah, you're gonna hire someone and

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Speaker 1: they have to like go in a boat so that

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Speaker 1: they can go on a really slow walk with you.

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Speaker 1: As a career, You're like, are you talking about honestly,

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Speaker 1: sign me up. Sounds like a good deal. Like they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's this rich lady. She's a little sad, she's a

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Speaker 1: little brooding, and she just needs to want you to

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Speaker 1: like go across the country to walk with her, maybe

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Speaker 1: fall in love with her too. I don't know, you

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Speaker 1: don't up to you. Whatever happens, maybe a torret affair,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how we feel. A couple of couple of

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Speaker 1: horny sketches. Um you want to try. Yeah. So, because

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Speaker 1: Eloise doesn't know that she's being painted, it means that

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Speaker 1: Marian will have to kind of study her and paint

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Speaker 1: her in secret without being able to look at Eloise.

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Speaker 1: Well she's painting. And the reason for all of this

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Speaker 1: is because Eloise refuses this impending marriage, so she refuses

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Speaker 1: to pose for any painting. Then Marian meets Eloise, they

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Speaker 1: go on their first slow walk, although that one fast.

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Speaker 1: They're running at first, they do rush printing. It starts,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's definitely they get your hopes up at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. I was like, oh, they're going to speed

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Speaker 1: it up, but then it just gets slower and slower

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Speaker 1: and slower. Maybe they just retired the rest of the

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Speaker 1: movie because they like, that was our one exercise for

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Speaker 1: the two weeks, right, because the whole movie is in

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Speaker 1: like two weeks. Yeah, it's it's pretty short, fat. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They go on their first walk. She's studying Eloise. She

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Speaker 1: starts to like sketch and paint her. They continue to

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Speaker 1: go on walks. They get to know each other a

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Speaker 1: little bit. They chat about their pasts and futures. They

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Speaker 1: seem to maybe be vibing and it's so wild to see.

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Speaker 1: This was like, it seems like we all saw this

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Speaker 1: movie shortly before. We were all wearing masks all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, the scene with it, like

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're wearing masks and one of

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Speaker 1: them is wearing it incorrectly because you can see her. No,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Marianne under that mask. They are socially

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Speaker 1: distancing though they're they're pretty far apart until they're not

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Speaker 1: until they're not until they're kissing. Yeah, they're horny distancing.

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Speaker 1: And then at one point Marianne plays Eloise on I

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Speaker 1: think the harpsichord, Is that what that instrument is? And

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Speaker 1: then I think what she's playing is Vivaldi's storm? Is

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Speaker 1: that the name of that piece. As you can tell,

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Speaker 1: I'm extremely uncultured and I know nothing. Uh yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: literally reading from Wikipedia. It's the Presto from Summer from

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Speaker 1: Vivaldi's Four Seasons. Coo coo coo cool. It sounds smart

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Speaker 1: when we say it, but you you'll hear it and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh that, yeah, I know that, right, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then Marian completes the portrait and wants to show

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Speaker 1: Eloise and tell her the truth about why she's there,

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Speaker 1: which she does, and Eloise feels betrayed, and then when

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Speaker 1: she sees the painting, she's like, is this how you

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Speaker 1: see me? So then Marian destroys it and begins painting

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Speaker 1: another portrait, this time with Eloise agreeing to pose for her.

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Speaker 1: Then Sophie the maid reveals that she is gregnant with

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Speaker 1: a greg and they help her try to administer like

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Speaker 1: an at home abortion um abortion montage. There's honestly, it's like,

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Speaker 1: m he's like a nice time. There's running there, there's

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Speaker 1: Sophie's run on the beach. Sophie knows how to keep

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Speaker 1: it moving. She's got things to do, she's busy, you know, totally. Meanwhile,

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00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: Marian and Eloise talk about love. Marianne keeps working on

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Speaker 1: the portrait. They continue to vibe. They all read the

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Speaker 1: Greek myths of Orpheus and another name I cannot Euridicity. Cool.

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Speaker 1: They read that together, then they take Sophie too. Would

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Speaker 1: this be like a midwife? I don't know what this

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Speaker 1: lady's job is. Yeah, I think that the I don't

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Speaker 1: know it's it's it's local female doctor, the local abortionist.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a midwife because then later there's also

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Speaker 1: a baby, which implies that she helped deliver the baby, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean right right? Oh my god. When Sophie has

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Speaker 1: to get an abortion while a baby is live, really

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Speaker 1: looking at her, I was like cruel and unusual. Can

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Speaker 1: we get the babies out of the room. I loved

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Speaker 1: that because there's so many movies where like someone's about

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Speaker 1: to go get an abortion, but they're like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I just remembered what a baby looks like. I can't

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Speaker 1: have an abortion after all. Okay, the whole plot of Juno,

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Speaker 1: so it was. I love that she saw a baby

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Speaker 1: and was still like, no, give me an abortion because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to have a child. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like she was like out of a dislike of the baby.

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Speaker 1: She was like, hi, baby, the baby was like comforting

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Speaker 1: her almost Yeah, the baby was like Google, Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: I actually really I liked it too because, um, for

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Speaker 1: the reason that Caitlin gave, but also because it really

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Speaker 1: further brought together like, hey, abortions aren't evil, Like this

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Speaker 1: person also delivers babies. Sometimes you need to deliver a baby,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you need to just get rid of it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds really bad when I put it that way,

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Speaker 1: but but I really like that it's true. The movie

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Speaker 1: is like, yeah, listen, this is just a normal thing,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean like he said, doesn't mean she

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Speaker 1: hates babies. In fact, the baby was really cute and

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Speaker 1: was just I liked. I liked it thematically, I guess

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Speaker 1: just putting myself in her shoes. I just don't want

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Speaker 1: a baby in the room while I'm getting an abortion.

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Speaker 1: That's fair, Yeah, just for privacy purposes. Really, probably they

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Speaker 1: want to get an abortion, like in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a shack, Like there's a lot. It doesn't seem the

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Speaker 1: most clean place, not very sterile, but it's that whole

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Speaker 1: sequences is really interesting. Yeah, I agree, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about their Yeah. Oh, so they take Sophie

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Speaker 1: to the midwife to see if she's still pregnant, which

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Speaker 1: she is, so she has to go back a few

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Speaker 1: days later. But in the meantime, there's like a coven

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Speaker 1: of him in who gather around a fire and sing

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Speaker 1: and chant and it's like this beautiful, haunting, chanting melody,

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Speaker 1: during which Eloise's dress briefly catches fire and it's the

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Speaker 1: same image as the portrait of the lady on fire

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Speaker 1: that we saw at the beginning. Then they returned to

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Speaker 1: the estate and Marian and Eloise kiss, but then Eloise

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Speaker 1: runs away and she's like, ah gay panics the last

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds she's like, actually I'm fine. Yeah, because later

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Speaker 1: that night they embrace again, they kiss, they presumably have sex,

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Speaker 1: but the movie cuts away to the next morning, but

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Speaker 1: they are like nude in bed together. Then they take

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Speaker 1: Sophie to get her abortion, and later that night Marian

356
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Speaker 1: paints her like a recreation of her getting the abortion.

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Speaker 1: Marian and Eloise have sex again off screen. They also

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Speaker 1: do drugs together. I don't know if that's supposed to

359
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: be weed or what exactly. I don't know. It seems

360
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Speaker 1: like they got too high for it to be weed.

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Speaker 1: But it was also like administered via armpit, which is strange,

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Speaker 1: like which if it was weed, you would think that,

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Speaker 1: like because we see Marian with like smoking tobacco out

364
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Speaker 1: of a pipe, so you think she could smoke it.

365
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: But so, yeah, we don't. Who knows what drug that was?

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Speaker 1: It's drug section. I just wrote France, question mark. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know either of the time I've

368
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: done drugs and France were not via armpits. So so

369
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Speaker 1: then the portrait of Eloise is almost finished, which means

370
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Speaker 1: that it's nearly time for her to be sent off

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Speaker 1: to Milan to marry. Both women resent this, they argue,

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Speaker 1: but then they up and spend one last day together,

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Speaker 1: reflecting on memories that they've shared together. Marian draws little pictures,

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Speaker 1: one of Eloise for Marian and then one of Marian

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Speaker 1: for Eloise, and she does this on page twenty eight

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Speaker 1: of a book. Uh The next morning, Eloise's mother has returned,

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Speaker 1: and a man is there to collect Eloise and take

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Speaker 1: her and the portrait to Milan. Marian and Eloise have

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Speaker 1: to say a very like hurried goodbye, and then Marian

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00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: leaves we cut two years later, Marian is at an

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Speaker 1: art exhibit where she sees a painting of Eloise with

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Speaker 1: a little girl presumably her daughter, where she's holding a

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Speaker 1: book with page twenty eight exposed, you know, indicating that

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00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: she still is in love with and still thinks about Marian.

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00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: And then the movie ends with Marian going to a

386
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: concert where the orchestra is playing the same Vivaldi Peace

387
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: and Eloise is there crying, and that's they're like Fantom

388
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: of the Opera style in the box alone lovers, and

389
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: then that's that's the last time Marian ever sees Eloise.

390
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: And then and that's the end of the movie. So

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and we'll come back to

392
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: discuss and we're back, bonjeur, We're back. Where where do

393
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: we want to start? There's there's so much to talk

394
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: about here. Well, um, one thing, just kind of general, um,

395
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: very noticeable thing about this movie is that there are

396
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: almost no men in the movie. It is just many, many,

397
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: well mostly three women. And then other characters that we

398
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: see are also for the most part women, like at

399
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: the Coven and the the Midwife question mark. You only

400
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: see pretty brief glimpses of men at the very beginning

401
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: and at the very end. I saw Selin Siama refer

402
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: to it in an interview as the men appear like

403
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: jump scares in the they do though, when the men

404
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: comeing like oh no, fuck. When there's that man at

405
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: the table at the kitchen table at the end of

406
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: the movie, it is it does you're like, first time

407
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: seeing it, Yeah, You're like, oh God, what's he doing here? Yeah,

408
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: because it's almost like you're before that moment, you've been

409
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: transported into this kind of fantasy world where there are

410
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: no men and you don't need them and they're not

411
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: which is part of what's so great about the whole

412
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: Midwife thing is it's even in like this medical context,

413
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: there are no men. You know, you just don't need them.

414
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: And you know, my little my lesbian bias is showing

415
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: we don't need men. Actually we don't need them at all. Um.

416
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: But but no, it's true. It is. Really you're like

417
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: they're in this kind of domestic fantasy where it's almost like,

418
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, Sophie and Marianne and Louise are a kind

419
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: of weird family together and that's completely shattered when the

420
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: when the man appears. Um, yeah, it's super interesting. Yeah,

421
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: and it's like the man arriving signals like the end.

422
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: It's like it means that this like this ideal I

423
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: mean not ideal, but you know, this life that they're

424
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: that they've built over the course of two weeks. But

425
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: it feels like the longer um is going to be

426
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: shattered and disrupted by his presence at all. I want

427
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: to pull a quote from a BuzzFeed News article by

428
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Shannon Keating. Quote, though men and their dangerous, undeserved powers

429
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: hover ominously just outside the trio's idol trio being Marian,

430
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Eloise and Sophie, the faceless nameless stranger who got Sophie pregnant.

431
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: The man Eloise is supposed to marry Sight unseen, Marian's

432
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 1: artist father, from whom she'll inherit the family business and

433
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: under whose name she's sometimes forced to submit paintings. The

434
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: women wield their own powers of generation and destruction. Unquote.

435
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: So it's like all these men are being talked about

436
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: or like they're looming, but we don't have to see them.

437
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: That's true. It's really interesting. Yeah, it's like they still

438
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: do exist under patriarchy, but it's you're you're watching them

439
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: almost like it. It seems like every woman in this

440
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: movie has a male presence that they're trying to navigate

441
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: around or like exist in spite of where I mean.

442
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: It's it's really clear with Sophie's story where she wants

443
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: to get an abortion and she does not want him

444
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: to know or be involved, and we don't know a

445
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: ton about it, but we do know that she's taking

446
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: troll of that situation, and even with even though she's

447
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: barely in the movie, with um Eloise's mother too, like

448
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: she is using this Milanese man to get home, and

449
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: like she's she's you know, giving her daughter away, both

450
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: of her daughters away in an effort to get to

451
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: somewhere where she wants to be, because it's I feel

452
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: like it's implied that she couldn't just go there on

453
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: her own. She has to make this, you know, kind

454
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: of cruel decision against her daughter's wishes because that is

455
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: how she could get to where she wants to be

456
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: and how it seems like she thinks that they'll be

457
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: able to survive. So it's like everyone's playing in this

458
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: game of four D chess, and it's interesting to watch

459
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: them even though it's like I mean a lot of

460
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: the time you don't agree with the decisions they're making,

461
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: but especially the mother, but they're just having to like

462
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: yeah that the men are just like hanging over. I'm

463
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: glad that they're not there. You don't need them physically there,

464
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: but you can still. But it's like it's especially in this,

465
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: you know time in the ye olden France, olden days,

466
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: just like they don't even need to be there to

467
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: be influencing the story, Like it's yeah and some levels.

468
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: One of the most interesting roles there is the Marianne's dad,

469
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: because I actually had almost forgotten that her dad was

470
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: a painter, and that's the whole reason she's a painter

471
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: to begin with, is it was like the family craft,

472
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, that was passed on. I had honestly forgotten

473
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: until the second viewing and I was like, oh yeah.

474
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: And then there's that moment at the end where she

475
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: she's like, oh yeah, actually I submitted under my dad's name,

476
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: but it's me surprised, um, which actually I really like that.

477
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: In that moment, the the old guy who compliments it

478
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: isn't like, oh well it was bad, actually he's like,

479
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: oh well, He's just like Okay, that's fine. I like

480
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: it just kind of a nice surprise. You're like, okay,

481
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: random old guy is an ally. Um, that's nice feminist icon,

482
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: that old man old guy at the end. Right. There's

483
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: also that really interesting moment speaking of you know, men

484
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: not being visible. It's just a really interesting moment where

485
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: they're talking about the craft of painting and drawing nudes

486
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: and stuff and it stood, um and uh, Marianne is like, yeah,

487
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm actually not allowed to draw naked men. Um, but

488
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: we do it in secret and everyone knows, and it's

489
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: fine and fascinating because even in that moment, it's almost

490
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: like secretly drawing men, which um for a woman to

491
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: do is not particularly queer, is all of a sudden

492
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: queer coded because it's a secret and it's like, you know,

493
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: it was very fast. I was interesting. I was like, oh,

494
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of fun, that's kind of saucy. And then

495
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: she says like, yeah, women aren't allowed to paint like

496
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: nude art of male figures to keep women from being

497
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: great artists. So it's the patriarchy strikes again. Another power play. UM.

498
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: I was interested in how because Selene Siama wrote and

499
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: directed this movie and I was curious of what her

500
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: research process was because I think, as we've all advtted

501
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: at this point, this area of history in this region

502
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: is very like vague to me. It was like, well

503
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: what it was? What did she learn? Like did you

504
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: what kind of research did she do? And I thought like, uh, yeah,

505
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: in this Fox interview, Um, I just wanted to share

506
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: this because it was just an area of art history

507
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know about where. Selene Siama says, quote, I

508
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: did a lot of research on this period. I chose

509
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: this moment of art history because there were hundreds of

510
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: women painters at the time that had flourishing careers. We're

511
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: always being told about women's progress and women's opportunity that

512
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: we're quote unquote getting there, but it's not true. It's

513
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: cycles and we can see it today. We experienced backlash also,

514
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: and they did also at the time. There was a

515
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: strong female critics scene that we never hear about, and

516
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: they were looking at women's bodies of work more than

517
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: their male colleagues were, for instance unquote. So it was

518
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: just like a cool to learn that she's she was

519
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: pulling from a time where you know, women's art was

520
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: unusually accepted and prominent in a way that doesn't seem

521
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: like it was reflected in history books because I guess

522
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: who's usually in charge of those. Another interesting thing about

523
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: that is which kind of took me by surprise. But

524
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: I also just don't know enough about I mean history

525
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: in general and specifically French history. But when Eloise and

526
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: Marian are talking about like what's in store for them

527
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: and their futures, Eloise is like, oh, when will you marry?

528
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: And Marian's like, I don't know that I will. And

529
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: she's like, what you don't have to and she's like

530
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: and Marian's like, I'll take over my father's business, which

531
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: struck me because I was like, oh, we're women allowed

532
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: to be like business owners and proprietors in that era,

533
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: in that part of the world. Apparently yes, Well she's

534
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: kind of like she's almost like a freelance artist, right, yeah,

535
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: just you know, give me a couple of give me

536
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: a couple bucks, I'll do some erotic paintings of your

537
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: daughter gig economy that she is a gig economy worker.

538
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: That would be funny if if task Grabbic could send

539
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: you out and a in a little canoe um to

540
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: go do a gig for a couple of weeks. I

541
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: do think like that that um, yeah, that that Like,

542
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: I guess the way that class is structured in this

543
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: movie is really interesting. I feel like, I don't know,

544
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's elements of it that are extremely

545
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: glazed over, especially where it's I feel like France is

546
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: kind of unique in that the class issues have always

547
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: been a big like national discussion. There. She said, they've

548
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: got those guillotines, but all if it, but all you know,

549
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: the the trio of this story, you're all from kind

550
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: of different class backgrounds, and you see the you know,

551
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: benefits and not benefits of like Sophie is, you know,

552
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: working class. She is very limited in what her options are.

553
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: We see, we get a glimpse at her community. We

554
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: know that she doesn't have the access to medicine that

555
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: Eloise would have, she doesn't have the options, she has

556
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: to work for a living, and on and on. Um.

557
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: Then I feel like, I guess, I guess I would

558
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 1: call Marianne more middle class. Where it seems like it's

559
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: like at the time it was kind of a new thing,

560
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: like right, like it's a submerging artisan class that didn't

561
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: really exist before. Then because it was either like, oh,

562
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: you're a peasant or your nobleman look um right, So yeah,

563
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: she's definitely in this kind of in between middle space

564
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: for sure, and of the three, it seems like she

565
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: has kind of the most choice of what she can

566
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: do with her life, which is I feel like kind

567
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: of unusual. I mean, I guess it's like we don't

568
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: live in a country where a middle class exists any longer.

569
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: So maybe that's part of why you're like interesting. Um,

570
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: But then you see, like Eloise, you know, I don't know.

571
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: I every time there's character like tragic aristocracy girls, I'm

572
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: like kind of rolling my eye, but you do see.

573
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: But I but I understand in the context of this

574
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: time why being of the like why being in the

575
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: upper class does work against her in some ways, Like

576
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: she has infinitely more options and access than Sophie does,

577
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: but in the same way she has, you know, no

578
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: control over her life. She's also like, weirdly she knows

579
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: less things, like she doesn't have as much she doesn't

580
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: know about like you know, like Mayen teaches her just

581
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: basic things about culture. At the time, she's like, yeah,

582
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: it's a song, I really like it because like all

583
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: she had before that she was in the convent, which

584
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: interestingly is painted as like a better option than like

585
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: the marriage. And you kind of see why. Um, and

586
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: you could argue that there's well, I don't know how

587
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: blasphemous I want to go, but you could argue that

588
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: in a queer context, the convent is interesting as well,

589
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: because it's, uh, you know, certainly they're not all banging

590
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: each other, not necessarily. I don't know. There is that

591
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: classic story about the the bisexual swashbuckling French noblewoman who

592
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: rescued her girlfriend from a conventence long story, Um, but

593
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 1: what where's that movie? Look that one out? Yeah? J yeah? Yeah?

594
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: Why is it there a movie about that? I don't

595
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: know her name I believe is Julie Dubini. Um, I

596
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: feel like it might have before episode Yeah, I who

597
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: did it come up? Oh? When you did the episode on? Uh?

598
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: You know, why are there's so many lesbian period piece

599
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll get into that, but one with with

600
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: Rachel Weiss. I feel like, yes, yes, Izzie didn't tell

601
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: us about that. That's it's a wild story, I mean,

602
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: but anyway, I'm getting off track here. But all this

603
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: to say The Confident kind of represents in a way

604
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: a similar idyllic, all female environment, except you know, in

605
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: this one they get to bang, which is nice um

606
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: for them and for the viewers. You know, I guess

607
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: if you're into that, um I am anyway, what well,

608
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean. Eloise even says like, I was having a

609
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: ball at the convent because there was a library, I

610
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: could hear music. And she says like, equality is a

611
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: pleasant feeling. So because she was among all women and

612
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: they were all equal among each other, she was like,

613
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: the convent is actually pretty dope, pretty cool. Join the

614
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: convent kids. That conversation that they because it sounds it's

615
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: like implied that Marianne also spent time at a convent

616
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: and she didn't like it as much. And Eloise is like, well,

617
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: that's because you can do other stuff with your life,

618
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: like you can just go to a library or like, Yeah,

619
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: that conversation was really interesting without kind of bashing you

620
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: over the head about it being a conversation about class,

621
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: because they're also vibing ate. The other interesting class component

622
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: to me was that even though they're all from different classes,

623
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: and Sophie in particulars from the lowest class of them.

624
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: They all treat each other for the most part like equals.

625
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: They like bring Sophie into their friendship. They play cards

626
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: with her, they read story Ease together. They help her

627
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: get an abortion without it being made a thing of

628
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: at all. Like that, I feel like it was. The

629
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: abortion storyline is really interesting in a lot of ways,

630
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: but I just I love that it's just like Marianne

631
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: and Eloise are just like, oh, okay, you don't want

632
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: to have a baby, let's figure this out, and it

633
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: just becomes a team effort. We can you can join

634
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: us on our dates, um and we'll have you know,

635
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, the classic lesbian date when you help a

636
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: friend get an abortion, you know, on the beach. Kind

637
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: of a third whale situation. But they make the best

638
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: of it because they do so much. They gather herbs

639
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: that are supposed to and apparently I was supposed to

640
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: like induce an abortion. They have her run around, then

641
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: they take her to this like medicine woman. You know,

642
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: there's that there's many attempts involved, and I like that

643
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: Sophie is so matter of fact about it too. It's

644
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: just like I feel like with with abortion storylines, there's

645
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: what you were describing earlier Caitlin where it's like the

646
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: last second, like I can't do it, and it becomes

647
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: this kind of like pro life e subtext, or there's

648
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: just like this deep inherent shame attached to it, which

649
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: I would have like props to Silly and Siama, because

650
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: if someone was like, oh, a movie that takes place

651
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: in you know, seventeen eighty whatever, I would have guessed

652
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: that there would have been a lot of shame attached

653
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: to it. But it's just like matter of fact, and

654
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: Sophie doesn't feel shame about it either. She's just like,

655
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: this is what I need to do and can you

656
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,959
Speaker 1: help me out? Yeah? Yeah, I mean relatedly, there's also

657
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: that really interesting moment where Um mayan it's like looking

658
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: away and actually earlier she's like, yeah, I've actually also

659
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: had an abobo it happens, um, And but there's a

660
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: moment where she's looking away and Louise is like, no,

661
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: don't look away, And I think that kind of red

662
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: forces the no shame thing, because it's like, look, there's

663
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: nothing to be ashamed about. Don't be embarrassed. Like we're

664
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: all here supporting our buddy. You no need to look away. Yeah,

665
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: and then Marianne. Then I remember being kind of like

666
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: it took me a second the first time I saw

667
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: the movie to figure out what was going on when

668
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, I want to paint this too,

669
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: and like document it somehow, because at first I was like,

670
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: what is going on here? And there I did see

671
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: some criticism around that of like's Sophie okay with this?

672
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: They don't really ask her. She's just kind of out

673
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: of it, and it's like, okay, I'll pose just like

674
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: I guess it's been it's been a weird day already,

675
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: so what's one more thing? But in the like abstract

676
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: I thought that that was like such a such a

677
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: cool choice of like, not only are they supported, they're

678
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: like this is you know, it's it's it's especially because

679
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: abortions are such like a normal part of life but

680
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: never really documented or spoken about, especially you know, three

681
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: hundred years ago. I thought it was really cool that

682
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: she made an active choice to be like, no, this

683
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: is worth documenting, and this is like a valid thing

684
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: that happens in the world, and why doesn't any you know,

685
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: why don't images exist of it? Yeah, that's true. Let's

686
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: take a quick break. We'll come back to keep discussing,

687
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: and we're back. I wanted to, I guess I wanted

688
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: to just we've been talking a little bit about the

689
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of this movie, but I think it's

690
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: like the story behind this movie. I remember reading it

691
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: when it came out, but it was interesting to revisit that.

692
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: Like this story, I feel like it's it's cool in

693
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: the way that usually when we see stories that are

694
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: about like artists and muses, it's never queer relationship. It's

695
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: usually a male artist looking at a woman, and it

696
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: often goes horrifically wrong. You know your phantom threads if

697
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: you your mother exclamation mother. Yeah, Like, there's so many

698
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: historical examples of it just becoming like a nightmare of control,

699
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of control dynamics and like

700
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: who is looking and who has the power in this

701
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: situation in this movie, But it's not centered on abuse

702
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: and then centered on a queer relationship, and I kind

703
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: of forgot that. Selene Siama and Adele Oh, how do

704
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: I see her last name? Chloe? Adele annell Holy cow?

705
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 1: I guess it's fun. Yeah, Uh, Seline Siama and Adele Annell. Um,

706
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: we're in a relationship for a long time, and that

707
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: to an extent, this is a movie reflecting on their relationship,

708
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: which was like super interesting. Yeah, it's like, wow, I

709
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 1: that's so healthy. Yeah I know that. Yeah. They're like, yeah,

710
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: we broke up, um, but we're still buds. Um. You

711
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: can still be in my movies, you know, Like, yeah,

712
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,959
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. And there is there is like one

713
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, conversation that's a little bit about control and

714
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: kind of the subtext is about exactly what you're talking about.

715
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: It's like the one moment where they have an actual

716
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: fight and pretty much immediately Mallion apologizes AND's like I'm

717
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: so sorry. It's like, okay, it's resolved. Wow, it turns

718
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: out it's really easy. You just gotta say I'm sorry

719
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: and then you're you're good. Unbelievable, Like they just listened

720
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: to each other. Um yeah, I mean it's like, I

721
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: won't get two into it, but I fell down the

722
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: Selinciama adele Annel relationship rabbit hole. And they just have

723
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: so much mutual respect for each other. Uh. They've been

724
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 1: working together for like a decade or something like that,

725
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: for something like six or seven years, like yeah, and

726
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: then and they they were broken up by the time

727
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: this movie existed, and it was just like, I want

728
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: to find that. There's so many quotes about it. Um,

729
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: So okay, I'll choose a Selene Siama quote because they

730
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: were like not shy about talking about it as as

731
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: the movie was on a press too as well. So

732
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: Siama says, just as the characters in the film discover

733
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: each other in a painting studio, so Adele and I

734
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: met on a film set. We talked a lot about

735
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: cinema during our relationship, and we grew enormously intellectually. I

736
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: also wanted to show that in the film the lasting

737
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: emancipating effect that such a romantic encounter can have on

738
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: your life. Uh. Which and and there. They also have

739
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: both talked about how it was like very known on

740
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: set and almost like t he as at this a

741
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: bizarre situation to be putting this whole crew it, But

742
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: but it's fun. Yeah, it's it's very interesting. Um. That

743
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: is a very cool thing that they are able to

744
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: do that. Um. And I, since we're on the topic

745
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: of a little bit behind the scenes and talking about

746
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: a little bit about more about the about Sciama and

747
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: I would be remiss not to mention that adult Annell

748
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: is a badass, is like a really really cool, like

749
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: outspoken feminist advocate in France, and you know, within acting

750
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: and uh specifically caused quite a scene because she I

751
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: don't know, was it twenty I think it was the

752
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: most recent one at the Yeah, the SISA, which is

753
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, is kind of like the

754
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: kind of like France's oscars um. I don't know why

755
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: all these awards are named after men, but whatever, an

756
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 1: interesting thing to impact I know why. But um, yeah,

757
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 1: the SIZZA, she she caused quite a commotion because they

758
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: were giving some kind of honorary award to Polanski and

759
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: she you know, walked out loudly in protests and was

760
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: basically go, I don't remember exactly what she said, but

761
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 1: she was basically, you know, mocking the whole thing, being like, yeah, cool,

762
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: let's give awards to rapists, fuck you guys, um And

763
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: and she was much more eloquent than what I just

764
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: know that's exactly what she's at. But yeah, and so

765
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: it's a very it's a cool thing she in general is, um,

766
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a badass. So I felt I

767
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: wanted to point that out didn't Uh Selene Siama also

768
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: like join her in walking Out. Yeah, I think that

769
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: the whole crew basically, but Adele and Lle was one

770
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: of the she was the spearheading it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

771
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: and she's talked a lot about her own experiences with

772
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: you know, abuse in the industry, and um, yeah, she's

773
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: she's very cool, so she's definitely someone to watch in general.

774
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: And she's a phenomenal actress, which is cool as well.

775
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: Everyone in this move has a perfect complexion and it

776
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: made me so self conscious that yeah, Adele and now

777
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: she will link to this as well. But the yeah,

778
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: she she spoke extensively about like being harassed sexually harassed

779
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: when she was an underage actor, and how in many

780
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: ways her relationship with Seli Siama was like healing experience

781
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: of like having a close relationship with a director who

782
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: respected and heard her, was equity in the relationship, who knew. Yeah.

783
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: I I loved learning about their relationship and that they're

784
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: working relationship. It's all just like they're both so uniquely

785
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: cool and the other. The other um thing I think

786
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: worth mentioning in the background of this movie is that

787
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: there is a female cinematographer Claire Mathson Claire Mathon, let's

788
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: say hold on cinematography by Yeah yeah, Claire Matson, who

789
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: has also given a lot of interesting interviews around this movie.

790
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: And it's that seems to be the real priority for

791
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: Selinciama throughout her career is to prioritize the female gays.

792
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: And she I mean because she's been she's been making

793
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: movies since oh seven, that I like. It seems like

794
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different takes on her body of work,

795
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: but that they have generally prioritized female gays in in

796
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: the way that there shot in female female gays and

797
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: the female gays. There's a lot of wow. Selinciama is

798
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:55,479
Speaker 1: all about the female games and always imaginable. Yeah. There's

799
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: been a lot of criticism of lesbian love stories to

800
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: acted by men, notably The Handmaid in Blue is the

801
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: warmest color clouds of Sulia and Carol. That I mean

802
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: in the ways in which the women in those movies

803
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: are sexualized vary from movie to movie. There's a spectrum here,

804
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: but these movies do tend to focus heavily on kind

805
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: of sexualizing the women and focus a lot on the

806
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: sex scenes in ways that could be considered to be

807
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: like catering to the male gaze, and Celenciyama has spoken

808
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: about that and spoken about how like lesbian movies directed

809
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: by men often do a disservice to lesbian and queer women, saying, quote,

810
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: these stories are really dangerous for patriarchy. That's why the

811
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: male gaze is obsessed with representing lesbians, for instance. It's

812
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: a way to control it. Our stories are powerful because

813
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: they are dangerous. We are dangerous. So it's a very

814
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: good strategy to despise us, to undermine us, because it's

815
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: giving us less leverage for a very powerful political dynamic unquote.

816
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 1: So to have this story written and directed by a woman,

817
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 1: a queer woman, to have it shot by a woman,

818
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: to have the story told entirely through the lens of women,

819
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: the differences are clear. Like comparing this to for example,

820
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: blue is the Warmest Color, or The Handmaid in which

821
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: we're also covering The Handmaid in later this month, a

822
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: movie I really like, and I think it is very

823
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: cool and well written, but there are you know, pretty

824
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: graphic sex scenes that are arguably pretty gratuitous. No need

825
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: for an argument. Really, Yeah, I have a lot of

826
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: thoughts about Yeah, about the about there's a lot there.

827
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's really interesting. You just brought up a lot,

828
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff. Um. I I have to

829
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: say I have a soft spot for Carol in particular,

830
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: I do. I didn't like Carol. It feels a little

831
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: different to me from those other movies. Um, maybe in

832
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: part because Todd is that's Todd Haynes, right, if I'm

833
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: remembering Christ Todd Haynes is a queer man. So that

834
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: kind of is an interesting twist in a way. Um

835
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: for me, that one is a little different. But yeah,

836
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: it's definitely a thing where like, you know, there's this

837
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: bizarre element of yeah, lesbians are hot, see them do

838
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: stuff with their legs together. Um, this is not a

839
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: visual podcast, so you'll imagine what I'm doing. Um. But yeah,

840
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: the fascinating about this film and I and I actually

841
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: like a good sex scene frankly, but the fascinating thing

842
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: about this film is I forgot they don't really have

843
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: a sex scene. I forgot until rewatching it that there

844
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: actually isn't one. And I think the reason it feels

845
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: like there's one even though there isn't, This whole movie

846
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: is like one big long sex scene emotionally, you know

847
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, there's some so romantic and it's

848
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: so sensual, and it's so um you know that all

849
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: those lingering gazes you know, and so and you do

850
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: and you do see nudity. Um the movie shy about that.

851
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: It's just you don't necessarily see like, you know, thrusting

852
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: um right, a very objectifying yeah. Yeah, And so that's

853
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: very interesting because I'm I'm a very um varying minds

854
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: about sex scenes. I do like a good sex scene,

855
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: but it's hard to do a good one, and I

856
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: think a lot a lot of it does become this

857
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: weird like let's just have a marathon like sex session

858
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: and people we all love it. It's like, Okay, calm down,

859
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: hang out and do armpit and she's together. Well, that's admittedly,

860
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons when I first saw this,

861
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this movie is boring. Where's all

862
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: the steamy sex I was expecting to see? And then

863
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: I was reading different people's perspectives and reading about this

864
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: kind of tendency, especially for men directing queer women's stories,

865
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: and their tendency to over sexualize the relationships. I was like, Okay,

866
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: I I now appreciate more why Selene's Yama didn't go there,

867
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: But I also think I would have liked to see

868
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: like a lesbian sex scene that is through the lens

869
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: of a queer woman and what that would look like.

870
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 1: So I'm sure you know the scenes exist, Yeah, there's

871
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: I can give some recommendations, but yeah, no, It's true.

872
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: Part of me is like I wouldn't have said no

873
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: to a sex scene, but also I get why it's

874
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: not there, um right, you know, yeah, I I wasn't

875
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: sure where to fall there. I guess it's like ultimately

876
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, iris her decision, Like I'm sure that

877
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: she had, you know, she she seems like, just based

878
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: on every interview I've read with her, that she does

879
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: things really really really intentionally. And so while I would

880
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: have been down to see a sex scene, Chloe, You're

881
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: totally right, like it is. It's it's it's an extremely

882
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: sexy movie for a movie where you don't see sex,

883
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: and I do like the like level of I don't know,

884
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like in all movies, I feel like

885
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: there's not always like that level of like close physical

886
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: intimacy and like prioritizing seeing it. I would have, honestly

887
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: like I would have I would have liked a sex

888
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: scene in this movie. But there's so but it's so

889
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: much physical intimacy and like just it's I don't know,

890
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 1: I I think it's really it's so romantic. And oh

891
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: that The last most imp hordant behind the scenes note

892
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: is that Selene Siama, as I think we've already mentioned,

893
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: was influenced by Titanic for this movie. Uh. And she

894
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: she spoke about it in that same box interview which

895
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: will link it's so good. Um. She says Titanic is

896
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: the hugest success, and it's because it's totally queer. So

897
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: shout out to queer canon Titanic. Um. But the piece

898
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: by Emily vander Wert, says uh. Siama says in an

899
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: interview she wanted the romance in Portrait of a Lady

900
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: on Fire to feel like, of all things, the scenes

901
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: between Jack and Rose and Titanic, which she considers to

902
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: be one of the cinema's great totally queer love stories. Um.

903
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: And I think in that way with that, it's like, oh,

904
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: the physical intimacy without I mean, I guess, but you

905
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: do get a sex scene in Titanic, So like, where

906
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: is the sex scene, Selene? But it's a very fade

907
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: to black kind of, it's a very tame sex scene

908
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: because I gotta keep it PG Third Team, it's like

909
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: the same vibe um. But yeah, the idea that, like

910
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: Titanic is a queer love story because Leonardo DiCaprio was

911
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: quote totally androgynous at the time, is love It a

912
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: whole new way to watch Titanic. Just remake Titanic with

913
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: like a cute butch instead of Leo. Let's see, let's

914
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: just see, let's just check it out, Let's see what happened.

915
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: It would work, Let's it would work. I would love

916
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: to hear a Selene Siama audio commentary on Titanic. Just yeah,

917
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 1: you gotta get her. You gotta get her on the pod.

918
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: You gotta get you gotta get her on the pod

919
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: for another Titanic episode. We're going to do one, at

920
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 1: least one every year. So what if what if Selene? Wait,

921
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: hold on, wait, we're suddenly on something. What if Selene

922
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: is the one who remakes Titanic just a thought spitballing,

923
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: just putting it out there, and then you'll have two

924
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: Selene's on the project. I mean Selene Dion come back

925
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: and write another amazing song whole Selene, is it a

926
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: world prepared? Maybe she could get involved. Yeah, shout out

927
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: to my cousin. She could be she could be Mr

928
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: Andrews or somebody. Yeah, all female reboot of Titanic. The

929
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to bring up as it relates

930
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: to kind of a general trend of just like queer women,

931
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: love stories, lesbian movies. It the white lesbian period film trend. Yes,

932
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: of course it is. So, I mean this has been

933
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: talked about, so we're not bringing up anything new on

934
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: the podcast, but it's still worth mentioning that, um, a

935
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: lot of mainstream lesbian movies, especially the ones that have

936
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: like big stars and get a like wider theatrical release,

937
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: take place in the past during a time when it

938
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: was not at all tolerated by society for people of

939
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: the same gender to be together romantically. So with this trend,

940
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: you can look at it a few ways, and it's

941
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: not inherently a negative thing because, on one hand, it

942
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: shows something that's often been you know, overlooked or forgotten

943
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: about in history, which is that queer people have always existed,

944
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: and it shows to some extent what queer people have

945
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: had to deal with in societies that were even more

946
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: heteronormative than society is today. But then it also means

947
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 1: that a lot of lesbian love stories are about like

948
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: a doomed, clandestine romance in which the character's time spent

949
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: together is very fleeting, in which the characters cannot live

950
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: happy lives together, in which they cannot fully be themselves.

951
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: So this is a trend we see in this movie

952
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: Portrait of a Lady on Fire in the Favorite in Carol,

953
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: a couple of recent movies Ammanite, which is the Kate

954
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: Winslett Sarsha Nan I haven't seen. Has anyone seen Ammonite?

955
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: I have not, But I will say something really that

956
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: really tickled me is when I rewatched Portrait of Lady

957
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: on Fire last night, you know, because it's on Hulu.

958
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: So it's like, I'll just rewatch it on Hulu. It

959
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: was like next suggestion, Ammanite. I was like, what come on?

960
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: Like what am I just binging like lesbian period pieces

961
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: right now? What do you want? Hulu? What are you

962
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: trying to do to me? And then there's another one

963
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: from called The world to come, which one is. I

964
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: watched the trailer. It seems like a sexier like thriller.

965
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: The thing that also Casey Affleck is in what which

966
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: is like why you're like, I think you can skip

967
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: it because of him being a thank you? It does?

968
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: I feel like it does, um And we we had

969
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: a version of this conversation in our episode on Carol.

970
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: I believe, but it does sort of. I mean it's it's,

971
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: first of all, a very white genre and and most

972
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: of the relationships focused on are often straight white actresses

973
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: playing queer characters, which I would just refer everyone to

974
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: the Carol episode for our discussion about that, because I

975
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: know that's a very complicated topic. But it also means

976
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: that you don't get any like queer joy or celebration

977
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: by like focusing strictly on time periods where you know

978
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: what's not going to happen, like it's it's tragic and

979
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: the and the interesting thing, and I will say is

980
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: that it's not even a hundred percent historically accurate either,

981
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: because an old timey queer romance is not necessarily something

982
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: that's going to end in tragedy either. Obviously there's a

983
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: higher percentage because you know, social expectations, get married to men,

984
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: all this stuff. But you know, there are obviously, there

985
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: are historical examples of women living together and very heavily

986
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: sometimes explicitly mentioned as being together, you know, in a

987
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: romantic sexual way. And obviously it's a little rarer, but

988
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: it didn't doesn't mean it didn't happen. Actually, I mean

989
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: spoiler alert for Fingersmith. I guess that you know, you

990
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: if if you've seen The Handmaid and you already know

991
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: kind of the story, Um, but that one is interesting

992
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: because it doesn't end in a in a sad way,

993
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: even though to get there is really wild. I mean,

994
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: a lot happens in that story. But that's kind of

995
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: an interesting example of like, yeah, actually, you know there

996
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: were this is I mean, there's my very um gender

997
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: one oh one. Like literally I took a gender and

998
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: sexuality class in college. Shout out to NYU, but uh,

999
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: one of the interests things about that class that was

1000
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: genuinely eye opening to me. It's like, yeah, in a way,

1001
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: sometimes because of the fact that there weren't necessarily labels

1002
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: and things like that, sometimes people were just like, you

1003
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: know what, none of my business felt like whatever, And

1004
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: it's not always like obviously that it wasn't like there

1005
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: wasn't the same freedom that that people have now. But

1006
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: there were absolutely cases, you know, if communities were just

1007
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, that's Isabelle and Annabelle. I don't know

1008
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: those are I don't know why. Well that was when

1009
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: attracted them to each other originally the bell Yeah, yeah,

1010
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,959
Speaker 1: they just you know, they lived together in this old

1011
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 1: house and neither of them got married and whatever, you know,

1012
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not I'm not gonna ask questions,

1013
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, like that, there was absolutely a phenomenon, you know,

1014
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: and even like my my mom's family comes from uh,

1015
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, like they were um farmers, you know, until

1016
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: my grandparents moved to the city. Is a very you know,

1017
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,919
Speaker 1: almost a stereo typical like yeah, you know, farmers moving

1018
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: to the big city. And then my mom grew up

1019
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: in Paris as a result, but like her whole family

1020
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: were like farmers, and they're absolutely stories of like yeah,

1021
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: you know, everyone knew so and so was gay, but

1022
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: you just didn't talk about it, and it wasn't it

1023
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: was It wasn't like a thing that was like yeah

1024
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: ra ra ra gay, but nobody bothered them at the

1025
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: same time. So it's not like that didn't exist. I

1026
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,439
Speaker 1: mean there's a whole term bust in marriage, right that

1027
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they were just old ladies referred to,

1028
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: but sometimes they're banging. Sometimes they were banging, you know.

1029
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: And so it's it is interesting that the default is

1030
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: it is kind of an excuse to be like, yeah,

1031
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: well this one's got to be tragic because it's old timey,

1032
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, it doesn't. And it doesn't have

1033
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: to be white either, right, Like, because it's old timy,

1034
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: you know, this was before um, this was before people

1035
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: of color were invented. I'm sorry, it's only white people. Like, no,

1036
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: that's wild, that doesn't make sense, you know, it's just

1037
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: it's not true. Right. So yeah, I think sometimes even

1038
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: though there are trappings of the genre that make that

1039
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: more likely to be the story told, it doesn't have

1040
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: to be either. And it's sort of a shame that

1041
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: through the long realm, like there's so much history, Like

1042
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 1: if we want to do a historical lesbian romance, why

1043
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: does it always have to be the same thing? You know,

1044
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: there's you could do it. I want to see a

1045
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: historical lesbian romance about like ancient Egyptians. Why not. I

1046
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: don't know anything about that. Could be, you know, just

1047
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: throwing it up there. There's so many opportunities, so many people,

1048
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: so many just want on a full, full fledged rant there.

1049
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: So I and another thing, I'm glad you said that though,

1050
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: because it is like there is like an element of

1051
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: revisionist history at play there that it's like, oh, you know,

1052
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: I think we're almost conditioned to believe that there was

1053
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: no way for a queer relationship to work out before

1054
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: fifty years ago. Yeah, and even though this movie kind

1055
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: of follows that sort of convention that we're used to.

1056
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: Selene Siama was also talking about this revisionist element when

1057
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: she was talking about this movie, where she said, um, quote,

1058
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: the tragedy of lesbian life is not the tragedy of

1059
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: lesbian representation. It's not the same. Lesbians have been activists.

1060
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: They've had the opportunity to live their life more freely

1061
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: sometimes than straight women because they could avoid a lot

1062
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: of things like getting married and having children. If you

1063
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: look at the Suffragettes, for instance, lesbians were there. The

1064
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: tragedy is we get erased from history. And that's like

1065
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: speaking exactly to your point. Layer, It's like, there are

1066
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: a lot of stories that are not extremely tragic, but

1067
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: they just are not prioritized and they're not taught I

1068
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,799
Speaker 1: mean at all. Yeah, and in the case of this story,

1069
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I mean, so it's a tragic

1070
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: story because Seline wanted to talk about her breakup and

1071
01:08:55,360 --> 01:09:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of obviously it a lot um But part of

1072
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me about this one is that even

1073
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: though it ends with them not together, at the end

1074
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: of the day, it's about the beauty of their love.

1075
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: That's so maybe that's too corny, but it is the

1076
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: right So it doesn't feel as tragic to me. For

1077
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:19,799
Speaker 1: me that the tears at the end of the movie,

1078
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: both for the spectator and for you know, the character

1079
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: is it's sad, but it's kind of bittersweet at the

1080
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 1: same time. It's sad, but it's also weirdly a little

1081
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: joyful because it's remembering this thing with so much love,

1082
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, It's there's so much love behind it. So

1083
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of an interesting I don't know, And maybe

1084
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this because I like the movie, but

1085
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: it feels to me like it's not quite exactly playing

1086
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: into those tropes in quite the same way. I don't know,

1087
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm just talking at my butt, but oh,

1088
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: I mean Marian at the very end says like she's

1089
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: talking to her one of her students, and her student

1090
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: has like drawn her in a particular way, and Marian's like, oh,

1091
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: you've made me look sad. And she's like, well, you

1092
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: looked sad, and she's like, well, I'm not anymore. I'm

1093
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: not sad anymore. So I think I'm going to fill

1094
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 1: in some headcannon where you know, Eloise was her first

1095
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: true love, but you know, she went back to Paris

1096
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 1: and she met another nice lady and now they're living

1097
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: together and Marian's teaching art to girls, and then maybe

1098
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: she got like a hot, hot Leo DiCaprio looking butch lady.

1099
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: We don't know, we don't know, yes, y, yeah, fully

1100
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: support that, um. But yeah, the trend is noticeable that

1101
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: it's you know, white ladies in the past who rarely

1102
01:10:55,040 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: get what we would consider by like mainstream Hollywood movie standards,

1103
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: like a happy ending. But hopefully we're kind of trending

1104
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: away from that, or at least that we get to

1105
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 1: see just more diversity in the sense of the types

1106
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: of stories that get told and the people who fill

1107
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: out those stories, and yeah, because more diversity is certainly needed. Yes, absolutely,

1108
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: and it is interesting and and I feel like it's

1109
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: a positive step that it is queer women telling queer

1110
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: stories as opposed to random guy and write blue is

1111
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: the Warmest Color was very briefly brought up earlier, and

1112
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good example of like, like

1113
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: that one, it's on every level, like, you know, since

1114
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: that movie has come out, the actresses have also been like, yeah,

1115
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great filming experience. You know, there's just like, yeah,

1116
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: I mean it, that one's rough. And for a while

1117
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, this is it. This is a

1118
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: lesbian movie, isn't it great. I'm like, no, it's not. Though,

1119
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: like there's you know, there's still so much room for progress,

1120
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: and it's like this, I don't know, this movie is

1121
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: interesting because it falls into that category and then in

1122
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,879
Speaker 1: some ways it doesn't, which I'm like, okay, so incremental steps.

1123
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about Marianne and Eloise's relationship

1124
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: a little bit because I think it's so cool and

1125
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 1: the way that there I don't know, like again just

1126
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: having a you know, muse artist relationship that is like

1127
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,799
Speaker 1: pulling from a real life dynamic of Selene and Adele

1128
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: and having their b push and pull and having there

1129
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: be kind of this push for equity in that relationship

1130
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: on top of equity and a romantic relationship is just

1131
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: not something you see in movies really ever, or like

1132
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: the power dynamics of how because the power dynamics of

1133
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 1: their relationship changes over time. Where Marianne she she definitely

1134
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: struggles being vulnerable. She clearly likes to be in control

1135
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 1: of the situation. She is the painter. You know, it's

1136
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 1: like she's going to see into you, but you don't

1137
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: get to learn anything about her and Eloie watching Eloie's

1138
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 1: kind of challenge that and push back on that and

1139
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: be like I'm looking at you too, Like that scene

1140
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: is so good. Yeah, I just love that that And

1141
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: like there's also this element that is very common in

1142
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 1: romantic stories involving every one of all genders, where like

1143
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: there's some deception at the beginning of it, and that's

1144
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 1: the case for this too, but like the deception is

1145
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 1: very short, it's only kind of happening by necessity, and

1146
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: then basically as soon as possible Marianne is like, I

1147
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: wanna like clear the air here. I want to be

1148
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: the one to tell her myself. I want to like

1149
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: explain what was happening. So I really appreciated that as

1150
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 1: just like her wanting to be forthcoming about what the

1151
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: situation is and clear the air as soon as possible.

1152
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: They handle conflict really well, where it's like anytime they

1153
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: have an issue, it's just like discussed right away, or

1154
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: they're like they're also good about apologizing to each other

1155
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: when an apology is warranted, and like, I don't know,

1156
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm just like, damn, this is relationship goals. Yeah, I'm

1157
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: kind of now. It's true. They have a really interesting dynamic,

1158
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: and I do. I love that that. Marianne is basically like, look,

1159
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 1: I've done this super secret painting I made. I'm going

1160
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 1: to make sure the prom queen, but I'm gonna tell

1161
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 1: her first. I don't want to, you know, like, um, like,

1162
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: can I make the dorkiest girl in school the prompt?

1163
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 1: That's just the first thing that I thought. I thought, deception,

1164
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: it's weird, but but no, but it really is. Um,

1165
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: it really is like that. The relationship, the actual romantic

1166
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: part at first is kind of built on that deception,

1167
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 1: because there's that really interesting exchange where Louise is like, Okay,

1168
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: so that's why you were looking at me like that.

1169
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,679
Speaker 1: I thought you were I thought you were like checking

1170
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: me out. You know. There's so much subtext where she

1171
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 1: doesn't literally say I thought you were checking me out,

1172
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 1: but it's very clear that that's what she means. Um,

1173
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 1: where she was like, yeah, I thought you actually thought

1174
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: I was cute, but never mind, you're just studying my cheekbones. Okay, cool,

1175
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: And then Mariann's like, no, but I also was doing that,

1176
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: but I also like your cheekbones. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm

1177
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: staring at your lips because I need to paint their

1178
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: exact shape, but also I would like to kissed them.

1179
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: You see. So it's complicated, right, So yeah, the the

1180
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: I did really like that. She kind of reveals that

1181
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 1: right away, and after that it does shift the power

1182
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: dynamic again because now, first of all, the dynamic is

1183
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,480
Speaker 1: a lot more clear because before, even though the dynamic

1184
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: was Heloise is the noble lady and this is my companion,

1185
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: my walking, my slow walking companion. Um, now it's like, well, okay,

1186
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 1: this is you know, actually she's a painter. She's painting you,

1187
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 1: you have to kind of obey her. There's kind of

1188
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: low key, interesting kinky thing going on there. A little

1189
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: bit very low key, but it is kind of interesting

1190
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 1: where you're kind of like, yeah, you gotta you gotta

1191
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: do as I say, put your hands over here like this.

1192
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 1: But even then, that's very interesting. The first time she

1193
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 1: poses her she does ask for permission. She's like, can

1194
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: I can I move your hand. It's a very interesting

1195
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: thing because it kind of substitutes as asking for permission

1196
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: to kiss. For example, the first time they kissed, they

1197
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:05,560
Speaker 1: don't ask each other, but it's one of those wordless

1198
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, let's take off our masks because it's a

1199
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 1: pandemic thing. Um. That is so it is so weird

1200
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: that they have a mask. Is very bizaria. It's interesting

1201
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: but very weird. But yeah, yeah, to me, there were

1202
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: no traces of surprise kiss is happening here. It was

1203
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 1: all of consensual. It was, which is pretty rad um,

1204
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: pretty pretty red and understanding red anyway. Um. Yeah, and

1205
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: that whole that whole part that Jamie that you mentioned

1206
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 1: where she's basically telling her like all about her in

1207
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: depth analysis of like yeah, when you're awkward, you like

1208
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: scrunch your nose. I don't remember exactly what it is.

1209
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: It's not that. But and then she flips on her

1210
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: as like, well, guess what, I know all of your

1211
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 1: cool mannerisms to all your little quirks because like your

1212
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: eyebrows move. And then she's like, you noticed my eyebrows move?

1213
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: How dare you? No one's ever told me my eyebrows move?

1214
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: For yeah, A lot of really good flirting in this movie,

1215
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 1: really like excellent flirting. Just a lot of conversations about

1216
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 1: looking at each other and then a lot of looking

1217
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: at each other right, which is what Caitlin. One of

1218
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: the complaints I'm sure is part of the reasons so

1219
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: long is that they do look at each other a

1220
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 1: long But I personally love it. I love the like

1221
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: layers of like, I don't know, I mean, this is like,

1222
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,560
Speaker 1: I guess part of the sad the sadness of the

1223
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: relationship is the whole thing is like predicated on like

1224
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 1: once Marianne can see Eloise clearly, that marks the ending

1225
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 1: of their time together, and that like, if she's successful

1226
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: in seeing another person, that means that she then needs

1227
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 1: to give up that authentic image to someone who Eloise

1228
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: doesn't even know and has to go off to and

1229
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 1: that didn't like I mean, I recognize that the first

1230
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: time I saw the movie, but I didn't really think

1231
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: about it until this viewing. And it's because of I

1232
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: think I just didn't think about the countess very much

1233
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 1: in the in my first viewing of this movie. But

1234
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 1: the mom character is interesting. We haven't really talked about her. Yeah,

1235
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: because her, because she gives the perfect setup for like

1236
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 1: what these portraits are accomplishing, and like reflects on how

1237
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: she feels about her own portrait where you know, you

1238
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: see a portrait of like the younger countess in the

1239
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: whatever den where they're always chilling, and and it's like

1240
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 1: this is like the image that your husband, who you

1241
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 1: don't know, receives before you get there. And she is

1242
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: like talking about how this portrait of her arrived before

1243
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: she ever did, and then she had to arrive and

1244
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: it's like this picture here staring at her and she

1245
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: has to live up to this image that may or

1246
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: may not be an authentic reflection of who she was,

1247
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: and that her daughter, of course, is going to I mean,

1248
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: but it sounds like both of her daughters were extremely

1249
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: you know, pushing against that and feeling kind of the

1250
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,679
Speaker 1: the constraint and doom that came with it. Because it's

1251
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: this is like not really discussed very heavily in the movie.

1252
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 1: It's mostly at the beginning, but it's Sophie. I think

1253
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:35,240
Speaker 1: Sophie tells Marianne that it seems like Eloise's sister died

1254
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 1: by suicide by wordlessly stepping off of a cliff, and

1255
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: Eloise later opens up and says that her sister had

1256
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: left her this kind of veiled apology and a letter

1257
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,679
Speaker 1: because she was aware that by taking her own life,

1258
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,640
Speaker 1: Eloise was going to have to marry this guy instead.

1259
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 1: But it just it's it's I mean, even though it's

1260
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: like men aren't in the movie, that like looming cloud

1261
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: of aristocracy, patriarchy is very like it's hanging over this

1262
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: family in a really intense way. And as much as

1263
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: it's like I wish that the Countess could solve patriarchy

1264
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 1: and be like, you know, you don't have to do this,

1265
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: We'll just live in this old house forever and don't

1266
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,599
Speaker 1: you worry about it, blah blah blah, but I think

1267
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: that is like where some of the realism of the

1268
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 1: movie comes in where it's like the Countess is such

1269
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: a tough character because it's like I don't like her,

1270
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 1: I think, especially after losing her daughter, Like why why

1271
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: not reevaluate, you know, before putting your your other daughter

1272
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: in this exact same position with the exact same guy.

1273
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 1: Like it is implied that it's kind of like a

1274
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 1: selfish decision on her part because she wants to go

1275
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: back to Milan, where she's from. But then it's also

1276
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,679
Speaker 1: like what else would they do? I don't really know,

1277
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: Like it's it's just so, and she's not a completely

1278
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: unsympathetic character, and the moments you see her with Eloise,

1279
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 1: I totally understand why Eloise is like, um, going to

1280
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 1: keep you at arm's length, But you can also see

1281
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: how the Countess like really desperately wants to connect with

1282
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 1: her daughter and can't, and they clearly like it doesn't

1283
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: seem like there's been much of a discussion or grieving

1284
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: process about her sister, and just like there's all this

1285
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: stuff hanging over this family that they just aren't talking about.

1286
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean, this movie frames this type of like arranged

1287
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: aristocratic marriage as a prison, a prison which her mother

1288
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: was originally in, like and that's why she's like in

1289
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 1: this big empty house now because she like by the

1290
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: bonds of marriage, had to like leave Milan and go here,

1291
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 1: and then she had daughters and now she's sort of

1292
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:57,520
Speaker 1: setting them up in this rosen cow all over again exactly.

1293
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: So she's setting them up like with this marriage with

1294
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: this guy and like kind of her escaping her own prison.

1295
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 1: She's doing that via putting her daughter's in like the

1296
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: next generation of this like prison marriage thing. So it's

1297
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: just like this weird cyclical patriarchal thing. Yeah. At the

1298
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: same time, that's part of the reason she justifies it, right,

1299
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: She was like, well, that's what that's what I had

1300
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 1: to do, you know, like like I didn't like it

1301
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: at first, but you know, the things that you grow

1302
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 1: to like, and you know, and Milan is cool. You

1303
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: like Milan. Um, that's great. When you by the way,

1304
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: when you were talking about t again, I just pictured

1305
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: that um that the Milanese gentleman is just Billy's ain

1306
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: off screen just totally we we can't prove it's not. Um.

1307
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it is a really interesting thing. And

1308
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:02,560
Speaker 1: there's this kind of interesting went to where um, Marianne

1309
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: and the mom like bond. They have that cute moment

1310
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 1: where they speak Italian together, which I had actually also

1311
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: forgotten about, and I do actually speak a little Italian,

1312
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: so I was like, oh cool, he's my Italian one

1313
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 1: of one um. But yeah, there is a really interesting dynamic,

1314
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 1: for sure, because she knows that it's not good, but

1315
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: also she's kind of just like, well, that's how it is.

1316
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 1: That's what you gotta do. You know, that's its own tragedy.

1317
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: In some ways, that is almost you can't help but

1318
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 1: wonder like did the mom have her own fun little

1319
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: lesbian trist like I hope she at least has her

1320
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: page somewhere, but probably not. Probably not. Yeah, it is

1321
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 1: very interesting the mom character, especially because when she comes

1322
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: back from that trip, you know that you well, this

1323
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: is the interesting question. You almost wonder like does she know,

1324
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 1: like does she understand what exactly was happening, because she

1325
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,800
Speaker 1: kind of seems like she us. She kind of seems

1326
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: like she was like, all right, I'll let you have

1327
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 1: your lesbian love affair, but you better come back with

1328
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: a painting. Yeah, I'll be gone for five days, make

1329
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: sure you make the most of it, and then I'll

1330
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,639
Speaker 1: be back at the end. Of it, and I also

1331
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: wonder if Sophie knows. I think Sophie does know. She's

1332
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 1: got to know, he's got to know. I don't know

1333
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 1: how thin the walls are in like old timey like

1334
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: French castles, but we're not castles. It's a little home,

1335
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 1: I guess. But yeah, why didn't they share their drugs

1336
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 1: with Sophie. That was a little inconsiderate, especially because she's

1337
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: probably in some physical pain after her abortion. Yeah, they

1338
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,839
Speaker 1: should have shared their drugs. Could have been nice. Speaking

1339
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: of physical pain though, um menstrual cramps representation, I'm actually

1340
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 1: way too much information and feel free to cut, but

1341
01:25:53,320 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling it right now. I mean, I've never

1342
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 1: seen I don't think a character experiencing menstrual pain in

1343
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 1: a movie ever, even though it's something that happens to

1344
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: many people very frequently, myself included. And I'm just like, damn,

1345
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:22,759
Speaker 1: that's representation that we've needed to see and that we haven't.

1346
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: So it's a nice touch. It was another thing that

1347
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 1: was just like, I don't know, it makes me glad

1348
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: that Selin Siama is making the movie. Yes, yeah, because

1349
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 1: it's the kind of detail that wouldn't have been well,

1350
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: which is why even though I do understand, I do

1351
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 1: agree that the movie is kind of long, part of

1352
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 1: me is like, who would you cut? Oh? You know,

1353
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 1: because like there's so many things that I feel like

1354
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 1: aren't There's so many scenes that aren't like necessary, like

1355
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: quote unquote, but they they're so good. They add like

1356
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,600
Speaker 1: I love the part where they're playing cards. Is it

1357
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: important really in the long run. No, but it's a

1358
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:00,639
Speaker 1: great scene, you know, good, it's a vibe. Yeah. Yeah.

1359
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: I don't think any like story needs to be cut.

1360
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 1: It's just like individual shots that go on for way

1361
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: too long. Walk faster, yeah, walk faster. Shave off some

1362
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 1: of the the shots that are too long. You can

1363
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: maintain the entire story, as is my my European side.

1364
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: But I love the long, lingering shots. I'm like, yes,

1365
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: have that is sex. I love it. Keep doing it again.

1366
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: I am very impatient. So it's it's my impatient American

1367
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: sensibilities that I'm just like, Okay, cut away to the

1368
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: next shot, please another Just shout out to the artist

1369
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 1: Eileen the mov Yes. Yes, is this the person who

1370
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 1: painted the painting? Yes, she's the person who's hands we

1371
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,679
Speaker 1: see anytime, like any like drawing or painting is happening.

1372
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:58,680
Speaker 1: So she's sort of like the artist stand in for

1373
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: millions character. So yeah, just shout out to her. Here

1374
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: we go. Ellendel Mayer got it. That's exactly what I said.

1375
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 1: I guess she was like on it sounds like she

1376
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: was on set pretty frequently. There was a really fun

1377
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: interview with Oh God, I'm gonna say her. You just

1378
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 1: taught me how to say her name, Chloe know me,

1379
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 1: merl me knowing me Merlan, where she was talking about

1380
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:36,759
Speaker 1: how she was like technically painting during all those scenes,

1381
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:39,640
Speaker 1: but the paintings were really ugly, and I was like,

1382
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to see her paint things.

1383
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: She's like, I paint for fun. But yeah, definitely was

1384
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: not me painting. Paint things were not very good. That's

1385
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 1: so funny. It does look really effortless when someone else

1386
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: is already most of it. I could do that. I

1387
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: couldn't just cooking add some green. They're sure. So basically

1388
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 1: Ellen is James Cameron because he's the one whose hands

1389
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 1: we see drawing Rose in Titanic. It makes you think. Um.

1390
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: Another shout out for this movie being it won the

1391
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:24,440
Speaker 1: Queer Palm at can and it was the first film

1392
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: directed by a woman to win that award, so that

1393
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: it's frustrating, but also that I'm glad it happened, but

1394
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: every year just like what the fuck? Like really any

1395
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 1: other thoughts, observations, et cetera about this movie. We covered

1396
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 1: so much. I wrote so many notes, but most of

1397
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: them are just like, oh oh. One last thing I'll

1398
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 1: mention is that this movie is really banking on the

1399
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:06,719
Speaker 1: view were knowing the Greek myth and true again cannot

1400
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 1: say the name your curd is um. I had to

1401
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: look up that myth on Wikipedia and learn about what

1402
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 1: the story is from there, because I was like, I

1403
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: don't know this story. That was a little bit I get.

1404
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 1: Like Selanciama described it in an interview. She's like, oh,

1405
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:30,640
Speaker 1: it's like a Netflix and Chill discussion but in the

1406
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 1: late eighteenth century. I'm like, sure, Seline, sure, I could

1407
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: see maybe maybe, But I was also like, um, this

1408
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 1: is this is a this is a discussion about art,

1409
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: and I know, I know it's like metaphorically significant, but

1410
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:49,759
Speaker 1: I was like, mom, I'm gonna I'm gonna give myself

1411
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: a pass on this one. I do like that. I

1412
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 1: do like the symbolism of that moment, and it is true.

1413
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,120
Speaker 1: I like that she framed it that way because it

1414
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,880
Speaker 1: is funny that moment when they're all kind of reading

1415
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: to each other right there, that's kind of a funny thing.

1416
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: You have to read out loud because you can't just

1417
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: all watch a book together. It's not not a little

1418
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: different from Netflix and Chill for that reason. But I

1419
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 1: do love that moment where suffused like what, no, screw that,

1420
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 1: Like why don't they end up together? I hate it?

1421
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: It's just like so mad. Yeah, that scene, the moment

1422
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 1: where they keep having that repeated image of a Louise

1423
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:31,600
Speaker 1: in the in the wedding dress and every time she

1424
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 1: looks back and it's it's a little on the nose,

1425
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 1: it's a little obvious, but it's also it's nice. I

1426
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 1: don't know, I liked it. It's if it's it makes

1427
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:43,840
Speaker 1: for a nice through line. Yeah, yeah, anything else? Yeah,

1428
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 1: that that was everything I had. Yeah, I think I

1429
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: think we covered everything. You know, we talked about so much.

1430
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 1: Page eight um beautiful. Yeah, it gets me at the

1431
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:58,640
Speaker 1: end of this movie. That's like I was trying to

1432
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:02,560
Speaker 1: not burst into tears, but you know, you can't not

1433
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: you literally cannot not it's hard. I just I want

1434
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: to quickly give a shout out to, speaking of page

1435
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: twenty eight, to that really great shot um where the

1436
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,920
Speaker 1: composition of the shot where um Eloise is like naked, like, oh,

1437
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: you need a mirror, let me just prop it up

1438
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 1: against my puss um yep. That was so that way

1439
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 1: you can see yourself. This is Yeah, that shot reminded

1440
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: me of my own tumbler in college. I was like, Oh,

1441
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:36,600
Speaker 1: that would have That's like such a like that's that

1442
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 1: sounds reductive, but like I was like, that is such

1443
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: a tumbler shot that I was like, oh, if I

1444
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 1: was eighteen on Tumbler, I would have been reblogging the

1445
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: ship out of that. It's another one that's a little

1446
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 1: on the nose, but I don't like that. I'm not

1447
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 1: gonna like, yeah, pretty fun. Yeah, sure, a lot of

1448
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:00,640
Speaker 1: good shots. Yeah, shout out again to this in a photographer.

1449
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think I really have anything

1450
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 1: else to say. I just I could talk about this

1451
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:11,760
Speaker 1: movie forever. Well. Like we foreshadowed, the movie passes the

1452
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:17,559
Speaker 1: Bechdel test a lot. Also another example, we haven't come

1453
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: upon many movies that passed the Veto Russo test, which

1454
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 1: examines representation of queer characters in cinema, but this one

1455
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 1: obviously passes. And as far as our nipple scale, our

1456
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:35,200
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples, based on how the

1457
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:40,679
Speaker 1: movie fares. Looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens,

1458
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:45,440
Speaker 1: I think I'll give it like four and a half nipples,

1459
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 1: taking a little bit off for it being another just

1460
01:33:52,800 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 1: kind of example in the cannon of white ladies, middle

1461
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:05,719
Speaker 1: or upper class living in the past and the queer

1462
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: joy that they experience is quite fleeting. You know, more

1463
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: movies that aren't that please but that this movie is

1464
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,240
Speaker 1: one of those examples, Like you know, it's it's still,

1465
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:24,599
Speaker 1: it's fine. This is a beloved movie. It's very nice.

1466
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 1: I'll distribute my nipples to Selene Siama, Selene dion Um, Sophie.

1467
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 1: I want to get a nipple, you know, the romance

1468
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: gets a nipple. I'll give my half nipple two page. Yeah,

1469
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 1: I guess I'll go four four and a half for

1470
01:34:57,320 --> 01:35:01,600
Speaker 1: this movie. It it discusses so much. I agree it

1471
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:05,559
Speaker 1: does kind of fall into this trope, but I think

1472
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,600
Speaker 1: on the least troubling side of the trope, where you know,

1473
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 1: we do have a queer writer director telling a queer story.

1474
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 1: I mean we we didn't talk about this, but Adele

1475
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:18,559
Speaker 1: is also a queer woman. Well I guess we technically

1476
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:21,679
Speaker 1: did talk about that. But um, I think that's kind

1477
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:24,240
Speaker 1: of a rarity and a prestige work like this. Usually

1478
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 1: it's two straight wide actresses playing for characters, um and

1479
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 1: kind of making a big deal about it on the

1480
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 1: press tour and blah blah blah. It's it's conventions were

1481
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:38,800
Speaker 1: familiar with unfortunately when and I yeah, I think it's

1482
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: just like a beautiful love story. I like that room

1483
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 1: is made for discussion about things you wouldn't expect, Like

1484
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:48,599
Speaker 1: there is like a discussion of class. There is like

1485
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:51,679
Speaker 1: an abortion storyline that is a big deal, but it's

1486
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 1: not made like it's it's an abortion storyline told with

1487
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: authority and empathy, which and and not try g D

1488
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: porn were or and not weirdly pro life that normalizes abortion. Right. Yeah,

1489
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,599
Speaker 1: It's just it's just a very thoughtfully told story. And

1490
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 1: I mean, Caitlin, yeah, I'm on board with with everything

1491
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,719
Speaker 1: you said about the places where it it maybe isn't

1492
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: completely stellar, Uh, but it's a it's a pretty story.

1493
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 1: I like it. It made me cry, um, and I

1494
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:29,160
Speaker 1: hope that you know it because it was such a huge,

1495
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: main mainstream success, especially for you know, an international movie,

1496
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 1: a queer movie, like on a number of levels. The

1497
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: fact that it got such a wide release in the US,

1498
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,559
Speaker 1: I felick, is a really hopefully bodes well for queer

1499
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,720
Speaker 1: cinema moving forward. So I'll give it. I'll give it

1500
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: four and a half. Why not. I'll give one to

1501
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:52,600
Speaker 1: each of the three of the main trio, um, and

1502
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: I'll give the other nipple and a half to their shoes, um,

1503
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 1: which moved too slow for my tape. Yeah, maybe the

1504
01:37:03,160 --> 01:37:05,800
Speaker 1: nipple will help them speed up. I don't know, I

1505
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: know some slippery add some tread you know, Chloe, how

1506
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,880
Speaker 1: about you? Yeah? I mean agreed with with everything said.

1507
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 1: There was one tiny piece that I missed because my

1508
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:18,200
Speaker 1: connection went out for a second, So I hope I

1509
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:20,600
Speaker 1: didn't miss too much. I'll just listen to it in

1510
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 1: the episode. But yeah, I think for me it's I'm

1511
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 1: also going to give it a four and a half. Um,

1512
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, for all the reasons listed, it is really interesting. Um.

1513
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: You know when you said, yeah, it has such a

1514
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 1: wide release. I meant to bring this up and I forgot.

1515
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 1: You know, one of the interesting things to me about

1516
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 1: this movie and the reception at God is I had

1517
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:45,120
Speaker 1: like straight friends who were like, yeah, so good, and

1518
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 1: I was like, why how you know this? You know,

1519
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: like I know because I'm gay. I think like I

1520
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: had such a big you know, it became such a

1521
01:37:56,439 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 1: smash hit that I had so many like straight guy

1522
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:02,160
Speaker 1: friends that were like, yeah, I saw a battle Lesion

1523
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: Fils and they didn't say it like that, but yeah,

1524
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 1: it was really good. It's such a good movie and

1525
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:11,560
Speaker 1: like you don't have to tell me, I know, and

1526
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 1: ali um of good movies. UM. But yeah, it is

1527
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:18,920
Speaker 1: interesting that it had it got such a big reception,

1528
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:22,479
Speaker 1: which is cool, and I do hope that's for telling more,

1529
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 1: for telling more, you know what I mean. I hope

1530
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,160
Speaker 1: it leads to more. Um. But yeah, and then so

1531
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:29,800
Speaker 1: I guess four and a half. So in terms of

1532
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 1: the nipples that I will distribute, UM, let's see, I'm

1533
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: going to give one to Eloise, one to Marianne, one

1534
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: to Sufie, one to the Midwife, portion Provider, doctor lady

1535
01:38:46,120 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 1: um whatever her official title is. UM. I think I

1536
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:54,680
Speaker 1: think you nailed it. Yeah, you options then and then

1537
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:56,559
Speaker 1: let's see, I've got a half I've got a half

1538
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 1: nipple left. Um, I'm gonna give it to Lisaying off screen,

1539
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:10,599
Speaker 1: just waiting any come in as the Milanese gentleman, just professional. Yeah,

1540
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:12,559
Speaker 1: he's like, you don't even you know, you're sure, I'm

1541
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 1: ready if you want. Um. So, his off screen presence

1542
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,600
Speaker 1: is really felt in this film, I think, um and

1543
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: I want to reward him for obviously. Yeah, thank you

1544
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,840
Speaker 1: so much for for being here, Chloe. Thank you for

1545
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:31,040
Speaker 1: for covering this movie with us. I'm very happy that

1546
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 1: we covered it and also that we had some French

1547
01:39:34,320 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 1: perspective on the on the story. Yeah we we. I

1548
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 1: mean we're clearly experts, but it was nice of you

1549
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:47,040
Speaker 1: to come. Yeah, no, thank you so much. No, it's

1550
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Um No, I'm happy to have lent my

1551
01:39:50,800 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 1: French build. I can do that, It's fine. Yeah, I'm

1552
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:04,799
Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled. I obviously I'm a fan a matron

1553
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 1: even you could say wink wink, um, I appreciate that. Yeah,

1554
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:11,880
Speaker 1: anybody wants to be a matron. It's it's pretty cool.

1555
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 1: Um So yeah, I'm I'm really thrilled. And this was

1556
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 1: really awesome movie to talk about. So thanks so much

1557
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:20,800
Speaker 1: for having me, thank you for being here, and thank

1558
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 1: you for plugging our matron. And what you should also

1559
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:29,759
Speaker 1: do is plug your own things, your social media, et cetera. Yeah,

1560
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 1: let's see. I. Um, I'm on Twitter. My Twitter is

1561
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: just my name at Chloe kunya c h l O

1562
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 1: E c U n h A. I'm I'm pretty funny.

1563
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:45,759
Speaker 1: I think I try to be. Uh. I I post

1564
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 1: a lot of jokes and then I'll also like retweet

1565
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 1: like abolitionist things. I don't know. It's like a weird

1566
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 1: medley of like here my politics also jokes. Um. So yeah,

1567
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 1: that's basically what I what I do. UM can relate

1568
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter? Yeah, um and uh and then other projects

1569
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:06,400
Speaker 1: and things. Um. Well I am. I am actually in

1570
01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 1: a lesbian vampire movie. Yes, please tell us about it. Yeah,

1571
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 1: it's called Blood of the Tributes. It's very specifically like

1572
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:22,679
Speaker 1: an homage slash moderny telling of like art house euro

1573
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,800
Speaker 1: lesbian vampire movies from the sixties and seventies, so it's

1574
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 1: very particular. It's definitely not for everybody, but it's a

1575
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:32,920
Speaker 1: it's an interesting film. Um. Speaking of nudity, a lot

1576
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,160
Speaker 1: of nudity in there. Some of it is mine. Just

1577
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: the heads up. Try to tell people before they watch it,

1578
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 1: because sometimes I'll have friends who are like, hey, I

1579
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: watched it. You're naked. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm French.

1580
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't care, um, but some people do, which is

1581
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: why I try to warn them. There's a lot, actually

1582
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of equal opportunity nudity. There's some, there's some

1583
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:58,240
Speaker 1: there's some penises. Okay, yeah, so there's a lot going

1584
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 1: on there. I don't I'm talking too much about that,

1585
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:04,679
Speaker 1: but it's full uh on YouTube, And so it used

1586
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:08,639
Speaker 1: to be on Amazon. Uh. And then Amazon is a

1587
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:12,720
Speaker 1: terrible company, and like everything, they made things worse for

1588
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 1: indie filmmakers and basically pushed a lot of people out

1589
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:20,040
Speaker 1: of the platform by basically being like, oh, remember that

1590
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 1: money you were getting, It turns out we don't want

1591
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 1: to give it to you anymore. Um. That's a very

1592
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,799
Speaker 1: simplification of what happened. But yeah, and now it's on YouTube,

1593
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:31,839
Speaker 1: so anybody can just watch it, um well link to it. Yeah,

1594
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 1: and I'm um also do some acting for a podcast

1595
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:41,120
Speaker 1: called the Pannumbra Podcast, which is uh like a queer

1596
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 1: neo noir sci fi thing. Um, it's it's cool. It's

1597
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 1: a very cool little show. And they're there are a

1598
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 1: lot of like a lot of a lot of cute

1599
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 1: little gay teen fans there. They're all like on Tumbler

1600
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 1: and they're so cute and are so supportive. They write

1601
01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 1: fan fiction. You've made it, you know, and there's fan

1602
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:09,479
Speaker 1: art and someone it's really good. Um, but you don't

1603
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: have to be a teen gay to appreciate it. I

1604
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 1: think it's a fun show that's just usually who the

1605
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 1: who the who it appeals to at the moment, I

1606
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 1: believe sounds great and uh yeah, oh and I guess

1607
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 1: I could plug I do also how to do a

1608
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 1: virtual comedy show called Queer Comedy Hour. That's the fourth

1609
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 1: Saturday of the month at seven pm at the two

1610
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:37,000
Speaker 1: mb Twitter channel. I'm plugging too many things, but yeah,

1611
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:39,639
Speaker 1: it's if you see some stand up from some gays.

1612
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 1: Check that out. That's fun too, amazing. Thanks again for

1613
01:43:44,280 --> 01:43:47,760
Speaker 1: being here. Yeah, and uh, while you're at it, you

1614
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:51,719
Speaker 1: can sign up for our Patreon ak Matreon as well

1615
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 1: at patreon dot com, slash backtel Cast. You can check

1616
01:43:55,880 --> 01:44:02,440
Speaker 1: us out on all of the major platforms Twitter, Instagram,

1617
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast go. It's where you get updates, um anything

1618
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:11,799
Speaker 1: else are t public, dot com, slash. The Bechtel Cast

1619
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:16,800
Speaker 1: is where you can get your merch. That's it, and

1620
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:27,759
Speaker 1: I guess uh do by bye bye