WEBVTT - The History of Orthodontics

0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck.

0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.639
<v Speaker 2>Jerry's here too, and we're just sitting around cutting the

0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.000
<v Speaker 2>insides of our mouths up here on stuff you should know.

0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the history of orthodonture, which if I had been

0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.480
<v Speaker 1>using my brain, would have paired this with the history

0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of dentistry, because that's, you know, kind of makes sense.

0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I feel like we would have had seen a

0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.640
<v Speaker 2>real decline in listenership that week, but you know, you

0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.360
<v Speaker 2>think so, No, just kidding, just being a punk. I

0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.120
<v Speaker 2>remember our dentistry one was amazing.

0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I think I don't know. I think people

0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.440
<v Speaker 1>are interested in their.

0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Bodies, especially when you say like that.

0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then teeth and stuff, because we all have teeth,

0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and it's interesting that bad you know, teeth, I say

0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.360
<v Speaker 1>bad teeth. I have bad teeth, but what I mean

0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.920
<v Speaker 1>by bad teeth is teeth that grow in in funky ways.

0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.280
<v Speaker 1>But I'd like to kind of break that cycle as

0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.440
<v Speaker 1>well of kind of talking about it like that, because

0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.360
<v Speaker 1>even though I have gotten my teeth fixed, it's just

0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.840
<v Speaker 1>because they were falling out of my head. It's not

0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.319
<v Speaker 1>because I wanted perfect white chicklets in my mouth. And

0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a big trend that we've seen over

0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.880
<v Speaker 1>the past, you know, twenty years, and really I feel

0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.600
<v Speaker 1>like even the last ten years where Hollywood, especially people

0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:37.600
<v Speaker 1>in the media all have perfect, perfect, perfect teeth, and

0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:39.920
<v Speaker 1>you don't have to have perfect teeth. I like teeth

0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:41.840
<v Speaker 1>with a little personality. I like summer teeth.

0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't remember what they're what kind of teeth?

0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.440
<v Speaker 1>Summer summer teeth.

0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I've not heard that.

0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:48.680
<v Speaker 1>You never heard that? Praise?

0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:50.480
<v Speaker 2>No, what does it mean?

0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Summer teeth? Summer here? Some are there?

0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's awesome, man, I love that. That's like a

0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.560
<v Speaker 2>what kind of dog is that? Sooner? Sooner? One kind

0:01:58.680 --> 0:01:59.080
<v Speaker 2>is another?

0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:00.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly.

0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They're in Japan. They have a name for like

0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a wonky tooth. Usually it's one of your canines and

0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>it'll be like kind of pressed out or crooked or

0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.600
<v Speaker 2>something like that. You may have one, but there's a

0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.760
<v Speaker 2>term for it, and it's like basically a term of endearment.

0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.560
<v Speaker 2>They just find that very cute. Here in the US,

0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.160
<v Speaker 2>it'd be like we you would be put in some

0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.520
<v Speaker 2>sort of like home or asylum for that yeah.

0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean you get as an actor, you get news

0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.120
<v Speaker 1>articles written about you when you don't get your thing fixed.

0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.440
<v Speaker 1>That's how commonplace it is to just you know, the

0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.480
<v Speaker 1>expectation to look perfect, right.

0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.520
<v Speaker 2>And that's a big criticism of the entire field of

0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.800
<v Speaker 2>orthodonics is, you know, they might not be the ones

0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.480
<v Speaker 2>out there like, you know, pumping the media up like yeah,

0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.200
<v Speaker 2>keep talking about how great teeth are supposed to be.

0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:51.880
<v Speaker 2>But they're the ones who are there like, hey, come

0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.320
<v Speaker 2>on over, we're going to fix you up. Tough to

0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.200
<v Speaker 2>blame them for that, but the criticism goes even further

0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.000
<v Speaker 2>because the feel of orthodonics is like, forget about all that,

0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:06.400
<v Speaker 2>we're actually helping cure health issues, right, And critics of

0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.079
<v Speaker 2>the field are like, it's not even established that there

0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.639
<v Speaker 2>are health issues from having wonky teeth, so you guys

0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.080
<v Speaker 2>should probably stop saying all that. In the field of

0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.640
<v Speaker 2>orthodonic said no, yeah, I.

0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Mean, for sure there can be health issues. We're not

0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.680
<v Speaker 1>saying that's not possible. But I feel like it's almost

0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.080
<v Speaker 1>a given now, especially now that I have a human

0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.040
<v Speaker 1>child that like, yeah, you absolutely get bracest. That's just

0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.280
<v Speaker 1>what happens. You go to the dentist. Really around six

0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.360
<v Speaker 1>or seven years old, they say, all right, you need

0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:37.400
<v Speaker 1>to go to your orthodonos.

0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Now, I did not know that that that was not

0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.760
<v Speaker 2>the way it was when we were young.

0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.920
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean I had braces twice, did you. Yeah,

0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.440
<v Speaker 1>but you know I've got bad bite. I have a

0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.000
<v Speaker 1>host of problems. But yeah, let's dive into it, because

0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:55.800
<v Speaker 1>this is not a new thing. People have always had

0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:02.360
<v Speaker 1>wonky teeth. And the reason is because we have the

0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.920
<v Speaker 1>same amount of teeth in our head that we did

0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.920
<v Speaker 1>when we were still, you know, walking on all fours,

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and we began to walk upright, and the size of

0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.800
<v Speaker 1>our our brain changed, and that meant the size of

0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.479
<v Speaker 1>our jaw got smaller to make room for our bigger brain.

0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.240
<v Speaker 1>It's not like they were like, all right, they whoever

0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.800
<v Speaker 1>decides this, you know, the panel God. It's not like

0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.080
<v Speaker 1>the god panel said all right, let's take out five

0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.159
<v Speaker 1>or six teeth because we don't have room for him. Now.

0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.200
<v Speaker 1>They were the same amount of teeth with less space

0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.400
<v Speaker 1>to put them, and that's why they started coming in

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.480
<v Speaker 1>in all crazy ways.

0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just give it another one hundred thousand years, chuck,

0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:39.680
<v Speaker 2>it'll work.

0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Itself out exactly.

0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Even more recent than that, the teeth were Orthodonics was

0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.760
<v Speaker 2>probably not an issue for one hunter gatherers because the

0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.520
<v Speaker 2>diet they had was more much more challenging to their

0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.760
<v Speaker 2>teeth and jaw, the bone that held their teeth in

0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.400
<v Speaker 2>place because of the chewing they had to do well.

0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Since we picked up agriculture, and especially since the Industrial

0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Revolution where we started mass processing food, everything's gotten much softer.

0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:13.599
<v Speaker 2>So we're challenging the bone in our jaw less. Therefore

0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.080
<v Speaker 2>our teeth are more prone to go wonky rather than

0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:20.040
<v Speaker 2>coming in straight.

0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and less bone is happening there. So I mean

0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.240
<v Speaker 1>that's the history of my teeth is bone loss and

0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:28.360
<v Speaker 1>lack of bone.

0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Hey man, I just got two root canals. I was

0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.400
<v Speaker 2>in the chair for two and the dentist was like,

0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.800
<v Speaker 2>you could go either way. On the one it just

0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.320
<v Speaker 2>got a lot of cold sensitivity, and I was like, oh,

0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.000
<v Speaker 2>I'll just get one. Spent the next couple of days

0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.560
<v Speaker 2>like realizing how bad the cold sensitivity on the other

0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.520
<v Speaker 2>one was. The following week I got the other one done. Yeah,

0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.400
<v Speaker 2>so two fridays in a row, I went to the

0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.440
<v Speaker 2>endodontis and got root canals. How about that?

0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've never had a root canal. Weirdly, that's the

0:05:58.680 --> 0:05:59.560
<v Speaker 1>one thing I haven't had.

0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.400
<v Speaker 2>They're they're not fun, but they're well they're not fun.

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So early on, you know, in ancient times, people

0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.479
<v Speaker 1>started to kind of look at this issue. In fact,

0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.039
<v Speaker 1>Hippocrates even wrote of crowded teeth potentially producing headaches and

0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.880
<v Speaker 1>problems with the palette and stuff like that discharge from

0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the ear, which is super gross. And there were have

0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.880
<v Speaker 1>been mummies, like Egyptian mummies that look like they may

0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:26.560
<v Speaker 1>have had some kind of braces, Like they had these

0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.160
<v Speaker 1>gold bands around some of their teeth and they were

0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.360
<v Speaker 1>connected with catgut and it appeared as if they were,

0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, being kind of used like braces to pull

0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.159
<v Speaker 1>the teeth in one direction or the other.

0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Yep, which is I mean pretty interesting. Again, this is

0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.040
<v Speaker 2>post agriculture, so don't don't email us. Yeah. And also

0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.960
<v Speaker 2>there's good band and album name in there, Hippocrates and

0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.440
<v Speaker 2>the Egyptian mummies. The album is discharged from the ear.

0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, okay, just waiting for us.

0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:58.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, good one.

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.600
<v Speaker 2>There was another couple people from the ancient world, Celsus,

0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.480
<v Speaker 2>who was a Roman writer. He talked about how if

0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.320
<v Speaker 2>you were worried about adult teeth coming in. You pluck

0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the baby tooth out and then press it with your

0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.760
<v Speaker 2>finger every day. Yeah, And it turned out that was

0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.080
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good idea because that was adopted later on

0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.240
<v Speaker 2>in Orthodontrea when it really became a thing, and even

0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Pliny got in on it. Remember how much he used

0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to visit us in our podcast.

0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I feel like Planning used to be

0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.160
<v Speaker 1>a firm entrant into the stuff you should know drinking game.

0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well he moved on to the dough boys. Oh okay,

0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.720
<v Speaker 2>but he said that if you don't like the alignment

0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:37.440
<v Speaker 2>of your teeth, just file them.

0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is still a thing.

0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.760
<v Speaker 2>It is. That's another I think thing that I'm like, wait, really,

0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.320
<v Speaker 2>you guys are still doing this, And it's true, like

0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the inventions and techniques and ideas that

0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.720
<v Speaker 2>came along from the very beginning of orthodontire are I

0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.320
<v Speaker 2>guess they got them right right out of the gate,

0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:57.840
<v Speaker 2>because they're still doing them today.

0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. For sure. I've had my teeth down in a

0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of ways to keep the bite from pressing on

0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.800
<v Speaker 1>other teeth, to make them, you know, keep them from

0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.200
<v Speaker 1>becoming weakend. You know, still a thing.

0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:07.320
<v Speaker 2>How is that.

0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.120
<v Speaker 1>What to get them filed?

0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Does it hurt? Is it fir? Oh?

0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.440
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, it doesn't hurt at all. It's just

0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that only. Yeah, and then you smell the smoke and

0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.880
<v Speaker 1>you know that part's all horrific. But there's no pain

0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.600
<v Speaker 1>in ball because they're not hitting nerves or anything.

0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, Now imagine doing that through the middle interior

0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.320
<v Speaker 2>of the tooth to scrape out the root to the nerve.

0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:33.320
<v Speaker 2>That's a root canal.

0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, so sorry, sorry.

0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.360
<v Speaker 2>So I guess really the first person, i mean, plain

0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.480
<v Speaker 2>of the elder, makes a pretty good case, but not really.

0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.360
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't until the very beginning of the eighteenth century

0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.320
<v Speaker 2>that a Frenchman, the French, would actually really have a

0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.359
<v Speaker 2>lot to do with establishing orthodontire. Same was Pierre Fauchard,

0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and he basically said, check this out, everybody, I'm going

0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to work on wonky teeth. I'm gonna make my name

0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:00.800
<v Speaker 2>that for that.

0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, And as it is today, children and

0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.160
<v Speaker 1>young adults were kind of the likeliest candidates for that,

0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and he designed the very first appliances for moving teeth around.

0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.720
<v Speaker 1>The first thing he would do is measure the length

0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.600
<v Speaker 1>of the teeth and file them down if they were

0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, if he had one that was exceptionally longer,

0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.680
<v Speaker 1>then it's little buddy next to it. He would file

0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.199
<v Speaker 1>it down, then do so on the other side to

0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of balance things out. That's called bite adjustment. Like

0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.080
<v Speaker 1>I said, they still do those, including on me. That's

0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:39.360
<v Speaker 1>an occlusional occlusal sorry, equilibration. Equilibration, Yeah, that's not an

0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.559
<v Speaker 1>easy one. And again that's to I mean, sometimes I

0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.920
<v Speaker 1>guess it's to help out the aesthetic, but in my case,

0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.920
<v Speaker 1>and in most cases, it's to keep teeth from grinding

0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.080
<v Speaker 1>against another tooth in a way that causes harm.

0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've realized it as an adult. My bite is

0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:03.240
<v Speaker 2>way over to the I guess the bottom is Yeah,

0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.040
<v Speaker 2>the bottoms to the right and to the left. Is

0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:06.640
<v Speaker 2>that what it's called?

0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I think?

0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.400
<v Speaker 2>So, Oh my man, I got a terrible cross bite.

0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.680
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I'm I'm making my way in the

0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.000
<v Speaker 2>world today. Takes everything I've got, but I'm still able

0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:17.920
<v Speaker 2>to chew pretty well.

0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, that's what matters.

0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Sure. So let's talk a little bit more about Fauchard,

0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.040
<v Speaker 2>because he hasn't left yet. He's he really kind of

0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.560
<v Speaker 2>got into this and laid the groundwork. He did the

0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.600
<v Speaker 2>same thing that Pliny suggested that, like you said, you

0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.680
<v Speaker 2>went to the same procedure. He called it inner proximal stripping,

0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.800
<v Speaker 2>which is essentially just filing down teeth to make more

0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:42.719
<v Speaker 2>space between them.

0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like if if it's crooked, give it a little

0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.079
<v Speaker 1>more space and maybe it'll be able to straighten itself out.

0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Or like you can file it down for the

0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.640
<v Speaker 2>space and then you apply some sort of appliance to

0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.080
<v Speaker 2>it too, straighten that tooth too, But you gotta make

0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>the space first.

0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.600
<v Speaker 1>He came up with that, yeah. Or what he did

0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.720
<v Speaker 1>was was push on the teeth, just like Celsus suggested,

0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.120
<v Speaker 1>like every day, you know, and this you know, this

0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.040
<v Speaker 1>makes sense. It's essentially what rubber bands and braces do.

0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Just you're applying pressure to your teeth at a regular interval,

0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.440
<v Speaker 1>like so many times a day and so many the

0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.280
<v Speaker 1>ideas that they will move right.

0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.360
<v Speaker 2>And it's true. Like that's one of the amazing things

0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.520
<v Speaker 2>to me, is like if you apply even like a

0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.000
<v Speaker 2>gentle bit of pressure over a long enough time span,

0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.000
<v Speaker 2>your teeth will go where you want them to. Yeah.

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:38.160
<v Speaker 2>So one of the other reasons why Fauchard is remembered

0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.880
<v Speaker 2>is because he essentially came up with the idea for braces.

0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:48.040
<v Speaker 2>He basically used a waxed piece of silk or a

0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 2>wire or something, and he would wrap a tooth that's say,

0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.640
<v Speaker 2>crooked to the neighbor next to it, and that would

0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.800
<v Speaker 2>apply pressure to straighten out the crooked tooth. I'm sure

0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.439
<v Speaker 2>in the worst case scenario make the other tooth crooked

0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 2>in the bar again, so you really had to keep

0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.520
<v Speaker 2>an eye on it. Yeah, and sometimes he would use

0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.480
<v Speaker 2>a plate too to connect a crooked tooth to one

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.760
<v Speaker 2>that you wanted to use a pressure, maybe a couple

0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 2>of them to use his pressure to straighten it out.

0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.040
<v Speaker 2>And this eventually was like, this is the basis of

0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 2>what braces do for your teeth. This guy was inventing

0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.560
<v Speaker 2>it in the early seventeen hundreds.

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He also used a specific torture device called a pelican.

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.640
<v Speaker 1>It had been around before, I think since the at

0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.000
<v Speaker 1>least the fourteenth century. It was used for pulling teeth,

0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.400
<v Speaker 1>but he kind of rejiggered it and redesigned it to

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 1>where it was basically a forcep that could pull a tooth.

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Pull a tooth like, not out of your body, but

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.480
<v Speaker 1>in a certain direction, and if it sounds like awful

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 1>and could lead to bad things, that very much could,

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 1>because at least once on record, he fractured a tooth

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>of a young woman that he was working on, and

0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I imagine that was extremely unpleasant.

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.360
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe there's just the one that people mention,

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, I.

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:04.439
<v Speaker 1>Mean, that's the one on record. I'm sure it happened

0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 1>more than that, you know.

0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the girl was quoted as saying, yeow exactly. He

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 2>also was smart enough to know that you could get

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>infections from some of these techniques and procedures he was performing,

0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.240
<v Speaker 2>so he recommended a mouthwash of wine and a specific

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.319
<v Speaker 2>kind of honey with some rose essence to it. Yeah.

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this guy just he just laid it down.

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 2>And what's interesting is he was doing this in the

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.440
<v Speaker 2>early seventeen hundreds, and it wasn't really until the mid

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.600
<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century that really started to become picked up again.

0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 2>And one reason why is because we viewed teeth much differently,

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 2>at least in the West, than we do today. Like

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>you were saying, thanks to Hollywood and magazines and all that,

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:53.720
<v Speaker 2>you want to show off your teeth and you're going

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 2>to be perfect. Back then, you did not show off

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 2>your teeth. It was grossly impolite to let anyone see

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 2>your teeth. Go back and look at any portrait from

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 2>the eighteenth century. I will pay you a dollar fifty

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.680
<v Speaker 2>if you find one single portrait of a gentry or

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 2>aristocrat man or woman who's showing their teeth in a painting.

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 2>You can't find it because that was really rude and

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 2>day class a.

0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean almost any painting you think about, like,

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>it didn't occur to me until I, you know, did

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>this research and you go to any museum, and if

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 1>you see teeth, it's probably to depict someone who is unhinged,

0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>or like a prisoner escaping from prison, or someone a pirate, Yeah,

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 1>a pirate or an asylum or something like that, and

0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 1>the teeth are all, you know, jacked up looking. Other

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 1>than that, you don't see teeth in paintings.

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 2>You don't a dollar fifty everybody. Yeah, but just to

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 2>one of you, not all of you.

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, we're gonna get some. It's gonna start rolling in,

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Buddy Jpeggs coming at you with toothie paintings.

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Should we take a break, Yeah, we should take a break.

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll take a break and we're gonna jump

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 1>forward into the eighteen hundreds after this.

0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 2>So, like I said, Fauchard was working in the early

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>seventeen hundreds. By the mid nineteenth century, I guess people's

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.680
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on teeth were changing and they were like, Okay,

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.880
<v Speaker 2>we can show our teeth, but think I'll look good.

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 2>So let's get back into orthodonture. Another Frenchman, Pierre joaquim

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Le Foulon, he's the one who came up with the

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 2>word orthodonyx, actually called it orthodontice. You have to say

0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 2>it like that. And in Greek, ortho means straight, Dante

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 2>is teeth, So straight teeth is what the word orthodonyx means.

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, I love that when that happens the too, Yeah,

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>when I can't even have follow that. So they didn't

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 1>call themselves that yet in most cases at the time.

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 1>That kind of caught on more and more as things

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.760
<v Speaker 1>went on, But dentists started to do this stuff. They

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.720
<v Speaker 1>weren't like specialists that only did orthodontics. Yet it was

0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.520
<v Speaker 1>just part of dentistry, and too, straightening was part of dentistry,

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>and you were an apprentice who learned that kind of thing.

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Dental colleges started being organized in the mid nineteenth century.

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 1>But I mean when was the first orthod's orthodontire school?

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.400
<v Speaker 1>That was in the twentieth century, right.

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, either the very beginning of the twentieth or the

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>very early or no, yeah, very late nineteenth century. I

0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 2>think it was an angle.

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, nineteen hundreds. The Angle school of orthodontia was the

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>first sort of standalone thing where it wasn't just part

0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.040
<v Speaker 1>of a dental school precisely, all.

0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, So some of the other advancements that thenineteenth century

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 2>contributed it can all be kind of lumped together under

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.600
<v Speaker 2>the umbrella term of headgear or uh uh if you're

0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.640
<v Speaker 2>a teenager, which is you're using your skull and the

0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>substance of your skull as a as a Oh, I mean,

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.560
<v Speaker 2>I wish I knew classical physics terms a little better,

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:25.760
<v Speaker 2>but essentially sure, Yes, an anchor, a counterbalance, how about

0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that to provide the pressure needed to pull, say, like

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.680
<v Speaker 2>your jaw back. There's something called the chin cup that

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.240
<v Speaker 2>you can use. I've actually seen modern pictures of it

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.680
<v Speaker 2>still in use in some cases to where there's a well,

0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 2>the cup for your chin. There's straps that go back

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to the back of your head and around it, and

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 2>it's meant to just slowly, over time pull your lower

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 2>jaw back towards your well, you're the rest of your head,

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 2>and it can correct an underbyte. And that's as far

0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>back as I think eighteen oh two.

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 1>I love that idea, though they were like, oh, we

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>need some kind of like, we need some leverage to

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 1>pull this jaw back, and we can't just have a

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 1>kid stand by a wall and attach them to a wall.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 1>And somebody's like, well, what about their skull? Yeah, it's

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:13.640
<v Speaker 1>right there.

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Somebody went bam.

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 1>They don't use headgear as much anymore. Like you said,

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.639
<v Speaker 1>it still can be used, but not like it was

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 1>used in the eighties. Luckily I never had to go

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>through the head gear trauma, but it was quite dramatic

0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>when you showed up to school having to wear one

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 1>of those.

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah remember farmer Ted from sixteen Candles, He had to

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:37.120
<v Speaker 2>wear one.

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.479
<v Speaker 1>Farmer Ted and I think, oh, no, junk Usuck had

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the neck brace.

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, okay, I thought that too, but no, it

0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.160
<v Speaker 2>was neck brace. There's a couple other people we need

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.680
<v Speaker 2>to mention. Another French dentist Christophe Francois de la bar

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 2>He created the wire crib, which was I think we

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>said Fouchard was the one who really kind of started

0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 2>the idea of braces. There's a distinct progression of linear

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.840
<v Speaker 2>progression from Fouchard onward and de la Barr came up

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.159
<v Speaker 2>with the wire crib, which is essentially exactly what it

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.679
<v Speaker 2>sounds like. Like you take a piece of chicken wire,

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 2>fowl it over like the teeth in question, tighten it

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 2>up the way you want it, and there's your wire crib.

0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:23.000
<v Speaker 2>It's not exactly like the braces of today, but the outline,

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.800
<v Speaker 2>the contours are there in it for sure.

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It started to become in the nineteenth I guess

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the second half of the nineteenth century a little more scientific,

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 1>and they started to kind of put a little more

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.879
<v Speaker 1>rigor into like, you know, figuring out how to do

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 1>this the right way. A guy named Norman Kingsley from

0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 1>New York City, it was a very early, very popular orthodonist.

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 1>He had a treatment for cleft pallets. It was very

0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>popular and wrote a very influential guide called a Treatise

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.879
<v Speaker 1>on Oral Deformities in eighteen eighty. But and this is

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 1>something that you mentioned early on that will kind of

0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.119
<v Speaker 1>keep talking about a little bit here and there, is

0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.399
<v Speaker 1>that he was an artist and he was very interested

0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.480
<v Speaker 1>in facial symmetry and aesthetic. So he was, if not

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the first, one of the sort of early leading guys

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 1>that was like, we want you to look good, and

0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 1>it may not just be about like your bite health.

0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly exactly. He was also supposed to be really nice.

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>He had a compliment for.

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Everyone he met, Oh that's nice.

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 2>So I just made that up, but I want to

0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>believe it about it. So there's some other stuff that

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of came along little by little. They were like, oh, okay,

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.199
<v Speaker 2>well let's tackle this. One thing that you can be

0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 2>born with is a narrow maxillary arch. That is the

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:41.639
<v Speaker 2>jawline on the top of your mouth. The row of

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.719
<v Speaker 2>your row of top teeth are connected to your maxillary arch.

0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah about that, the roof of your mouth, yeah, the

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>lower set of teeth is connected to the mandibular arch.

0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Either way, you can be born with one or both

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.399
<v Speaker 2>of them narrowed. So they figured out you can put

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 2>essentially an appliance of stick in between them and adjust

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:07.200
<v Speaker 2>it slowly but surely over time. And press your jaw apart.

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that is still a thing. My daughter

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 1>has that. It's called an expander. I guess it was

0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.160
<v Speaker 1>called that back then too, but and like her two

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.199
<v Speaker 1>friends abracist both had it too, so I think that

0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.120
<v Speaker 1>maybe way more regular now. I don't know anyone from

0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 1>my our days in high school that had something like that, So.

0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I think the original one was they would put the

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.200
<v Speaker 2>screw bar in between, say, your back molars, because they're

0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 2>pretty substantial and just over time slowly adjusted. I guess

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 2>probably every visit, and that would press the whole arch apart.

0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Is that essentially what they're doing still today.

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like a wire cage that lives on the

0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.880
<v Speaker 1>roof of your mouth. It's attached to those rear molars

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.359
<v Speaker 1>and they yeah, you go in there and they crank

0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>it out and make more room like the and it

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.720
<v Speaker 1>really works because the space between her front two teeth

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>got comically large, like you could fit a whole extra

0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.639
<v Speaker 1>tooth in between. Oh wow when this thing was at

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 1>its most. But they're basically just creating room for the future.

0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Was the dentist like or the orthodonist like I've done

0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:13.920
<v Speaker 2>too much? No, you know, coming back now.

0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.840
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I got a new record. Everyone get in here,

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:16.199
<v Speaker 1>look at this.

0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Carder, right, So I think you said we talked about

0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 2>how the first orthodontial school was established by Edward Engel

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.960
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen hundred. Even before that, most of the people

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 2>practicing orthodontire were now not only MD's but also doctors

0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 2>of dental surgery DDS, so they were really well trained

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>in medicine. And the reason why not coincidentally is this

0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 2>is because of a shift of direction that orthodontire went

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.879
<v Speaker 2>in to basically say like, let's get even more scientific

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 2>about this, and well they did.

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. There was a guy named John Nutting Farrar who

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:59.360
<v Speaker 1>some people called the father of American orthodontics or modern orthodontics.

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.160
<v Speaker 1>House I was raising, he was the guy that was like, hey,

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.400
<v Speaker 1>let me do some actual experiments and on animals and things,

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:09.879
<v Speaker 1>and let me see, like that thing that we crank

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 1>apart your teeth, let me see how much the human

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 1>body can like how much pain they can endure to

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 1>move those teeth like and I'm the kind of kidding,

0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.480
<v Speaker 1>but basically like, let's find a happy medium between how

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:23.920
<v Speaker 1>far we can expand and how much like a child

0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:24.400
<v Speaker 1>can take.

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. What's worse though, is he wasn't experimenting on children.

0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 2>He was experimenting on animals, which I picked, I.

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Mean dogs, Yeah, I guess.

0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So yeah that's for our What about Edward Angle

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.119
<v Speaker 2>who we talked about. This guy is probably the one,

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean my dad at least always called the house

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:46.520
<v Speaker 2>father of American orthodonics.

0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:50.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean he's the guy that definitely made it

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>such a bona fide business. And I think he found

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>out much like a lot of different ways to make

0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money. And you know, one way was

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:05.680
<v Speaker 1>like developing devices and patenting devices. Another way was creating

0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 1>like ready made appliances. He created the Angle system in

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty seven. So it's like instead of like building

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:15.600
<v Speaker 1>these things from scratch for every patient, like I can

0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.520
<v Speaker 1>just sell you this system that has all these prefab

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.720
<v Speaker 1>parts that can be combined in different ways to suit

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 1>your needs.

0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I mean there's only so many ways that

0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:29.320
<v Speaker 2>your teeth can be wonky, right, So yeah, that was revolutionary.

0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that just immediately pushed the field forward. And

0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:35.639
<v Speaker 2>if that wasn't enough, he also came up with a

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:40.840
<v Speaker 2>measurement system called the occlusal classification system that's still in

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:45.919
<v Speaker 2>use today one hundred and thirty something years later, that

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:48.919
<v Speaker 2>they uses the basis like that is the norm. Yeah,

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and that's what they used to measure anything in a

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>patient's mouth that's deviated from the norm. He also, in

0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.680
<v Speaker 2>addition to founding that first school of orthodontia, he founded

0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:04.159
<v Speaker 2>the Society of Orthodonists, which is now the American Association

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:09.199
<v Speaker 2>of Orthodonists. He founded the first orthodonic journal, which is

0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:13.640
<v Speaker 2>known today as tooth Fancy.

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, what a nightmare magazine for me. It would

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 1>be somebody, just you can punk me and give me

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 1>subscription to tooth Fancy. All right, this guy had so

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:27.000
<v Speaker 1>many income streams. Who's you know, clearly a great orthodonists

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 1>and dentist, but also a seemingly pretty savvy business guy.

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, he was revered. I'm sure he's still

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:36.640
<v Speaker 2>revered in the halls of orthodontire.

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Certain halls.

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's another This apparently is a debate that still

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.520
<v Speaker 2>rages today. At some point somebody said, hey, you know,

0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:51.359
<v Speaker 2>we usually try to step in earlier in development, like

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 2>to work on younger kids, I think is the way

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 2>they put it. But sometimes adults need help too. So

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.439
<v Speaker 2>a lot of us are just pulling teeth maybe to

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:05.320
<v Speaker 2>make space or whatever. Should we be doing that? And

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.439
<v Speaker 2>some people said yes, some people said no, and a

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 2>rift was formed that again still exists today in the

0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>orthodonic field.

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a rift so wide. It was like the gap

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 1>between my daughter's teeth at maximum expansion.

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:20.439
<v Speaker 2>It's a ricker.

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.719
<v Speaker 1>Should we take another break? Yeah, all right, we'll come

0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:27.080
<v Speaker 1>back and finish up on braces right after this. Stop.

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 1>All right. If we're talking modern tooth straightening, we're talking

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.119
<v Speaker 1>about braces generally. I mean, I guess they still have

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 1>retainers and stuff, but I feel like I see less

0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 1>and less of that, and it's more just sort of

0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>straight into braces. I feel like when we were kids,

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 1>so like, yeah, we can probably fix this with a retainer.

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.919
<v Speaker 2>I thought the retainer was like post braces. That was

0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 2>my experience.

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 1>I think that can be true too. Okay, but I'm

0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>pretty like my brother got a retainer and not braces

0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:12.359
<v Speaker 1>of course.

0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sure his retainer somehow made him money too, accidentally.

0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.959
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, God bless him. So a lot of people

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:25.520
<v Speaker 1>had kind of shipped in to come up with things

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:29.880
<v Speaker 1>were basically like brace's one guy that was pretty key

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.920
<v Speaker 1>was name doctor Raymond Beg. His nickname was Tick. Do

0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>you know why I didn't find out why.

0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I could not find other than that he was Australian.

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:39.520
<v Speaker 2>That's the best I can come.

0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Up with, all right. But he was a student of Angle,

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess, at that school of orthodontia. Orthodontia, Yeah, Orthodontia.

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 1>And he moved to Australia or I guess went back

0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 1>to Australia where he practiced in Adelaide, Lovely area. And

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:58.520
<v Speaker 1>this was in the nineteen thirties, and he developed like

0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 1>using stainless steel wire instead of precious metals, And I

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.200
<v Speaker 1>think didn't they use precious metals because they were malleable

0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:07.440
<v Speaker 1>but that caused problems.

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, they're they're very expensive and gold like you

0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.919
<v Speaker 2>can't make a crown out of gold because eventually it'll

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 2>it'll mash. But they were prized because they don't react

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 2>with other stuff, Like you can need all the cheetos

0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 2>you want and your gold's not going to rust. It's

0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:29.280
<v Speaker 2>not poisonous like mercury, which apparently they still use in

0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 2>fillings in some places. Oh okay, yeah, so it But

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.160
<v Speaker 2>they're they're expensive, so people came up with alloys now today,

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>although sometimes you still will see like gold or platinum

0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 2>or silver alloy sometimes fused with ceramic for implants and stuff. Yeah.

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, the stainless steel, I mean, that's still that came

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 1>about in what nineteen fifty six here in the States,

0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:58.520
<v Speaker 1>and racist became you know, really more popular over that time,

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of starting in the fifties, but really in the

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:03.320
<v Speaker 1>seventies and eighties. I think an estimate from the AAO

0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 1>found the number of Americans who wear braces doubled between

0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:10.080
<v Speaker 1>eighty two and two thousand and eight. Yeah, and you know,

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 1>they've evolved over the years they had. I was not

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>one of the first, but it was pretty early on.

0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 1>My second set of braces were ceramic that like the

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 1>clear braces, which was a little bit better, but it

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 1>was not you know, you still had brace face, just

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:28.240
<v Speaker 1>a little less obvious. It's not like, you know, you

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:31.280
<v Speaker 1>couldn't tell or anything like that. Whereas my first braces

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.560
<v Speaker 1>were it was early enough where they were the wrap

0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:36.440
<v Speaker 1>around like an entire silver band around each tooth.

0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 2>M hm.

0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:39.760
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like glued on. Yeah, right.

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.600
<v Speaker 2>One thing though about that huge increase the doubling of

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:46.080
<v Speaker 2>people with braces between eighty two and two thousand and eight.

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that doesn't track with my experience. For me,

0:29:49.000 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 2>it was the eighties where everybody's wearing braces. And then

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I realized that that's because I knew the most people

0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>wearing braces in the eighties, because that's when I was

0:29:57.680 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>in elementary and middle school.

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, yeah, sure, yeah.

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 2>It was just a kind of bias I thought.

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Was great proximity bias.

0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>I looked and I could not figure out which one

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>it was. Maybe the frequency illusion is the best I

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:11.960
<v Speaker 2>could go okay with.

0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 1>That makes sense. I didn't. Is it proximity bias even

0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 1>a thing that I make that up?

0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 2>If it's not, it should because it's got a great,

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:21.160
<v Speaker 2>great name. It really has legs.

0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 1>They also have braces that go in the back of

0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>your teeth. One of my good friends had those, and those,

0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:28.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, can't be used in all cases, but that's

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:31.080
<v Speaker 1>the ones where you really score as a teenager for sure.

0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>And then I guess those aren't invisible ligners. Those are just.

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Rear braces, right, yeah, party rear.

0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, before we get onto invisible liners, which also created

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:45.560
<v Speaker 2>quite a rift in orthodonics. There's something that I guess

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:49.240
<v Speaker 2>it's the new standard maybe today, called self ligating braces.

0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:53.120
<v Speaker 2>So with traditional braces, you have that wire's been around

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:56.160
<v Speaker 2>since Fouchard, you have the brackets that actually attached to

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 2>your teeth, and then you have little tiny rubber bands

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:02.880
<v Speaker 2>that attack the brackets to the wire. Right, With self

0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 2>ligating braces, there's just the wire and the brackets, and

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.400
<v Speaker 2>apparently it makes it way easier to clean. It makes

0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 2>it way easier to adjust when you switch out the

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 2>wire for a thicker wire over time, because there's a

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>little snap in the bracket that holds that wire in place.

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>And they just look like the future to me.

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You can also get colored braces now too, which

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:27.600
<v Speaker 1>is a big thing if you get them young, like

0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:29.479
<v Speaker 1>my daughter, she has purple braces.

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's cool, loud proud. I guess. Now onto invisible

0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 2>ligners because this was kind of a big deal to Caltech.

0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 2>They might have been students at the time. Zia Chishti

0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:44.040
<v Speaker 2>and Kelsey Worth invented them all the way back in

0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:46.840
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety seven, and within just three years we had

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:48.320
<v Speaker 2>in visi line on the market.

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my brother used these for a while too, and

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.120
<v Speaker 1>this is something that you it's to avoid going to

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 1>the orthodonists, I guess, and paying like a lot of

0:31:56.200 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 1>money for permanent or not permanent but you know, temporarily

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.040
<v Speaker 1>glued on braces. This is something that you can you know,

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>it fits over your teeth and you can take them

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>on and off.

0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Sure any involvement in this industry, it's been pushed so

0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:15.760
<v Speaker 2>far outside of traditional orthodonics that any orthodontist who is

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:21.320
<v Speaker 2>a critic of orthodonture and it's like questionable scientific basis,

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:26.240
<v Speaker 2>they they the orthodonic community will use their involvement with

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 2>this industry to discredit them. That's how that's how reviled

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:32.640
<v Speaker 2>it is among mainstream orthodonics now.

0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Is that because they genuinely think it's no good or

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>it's genuinely no good for their practice, no.

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Good for their practice, because it's not so much the

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.880
<v Speaker 2>invisible liners. It's the fact that you can order them

0:32:43.880 --> 0:32:47.920
<v Speaker 2>yourself online and they'll like you're they're just totally cut

0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:51.440
<v Speaker 2>out of the loop. So it's that's it's specifically the

0:32:51.480 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 2>online ordering version that they have such an aversion to.

0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm surprised they didn't think of a way to get

0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 1>a piece of that business. You know.

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 2>It happened. Happened while they were sleeping.

0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I need to ask my brother how well

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:05.800
<v Speaker 1>they worked for him, because I know he woren for

0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 1>a little while.

0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I think they work if you have just slight adjustments

0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:10.959
<v Speaker 2>you need to make. But if you have like a

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:16.040
<v Speaker 2>really like a big deal in the wonky department, then

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.760
<v Speaker 2>you should go with braces. One other big check in

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:24.280
<v Speaker 2>the favor of braces over invisible liners. You can adjust

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:27.959
<v Speaker 2>the braces throughout the treatment. I need a little more

0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:29.960
<v Speaker 2>pressure here, a little less here. You can't do that

0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 2>with invisible liners. Once you send them the mold of

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 2>your mouth, they send you the braces back, and that's that.

0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 2>I think you get multiple ones, but it's much less

0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 2>precise over time as braces.

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Right. Livia found this, and I didn't know this is

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:49.400
<v Speaker 1>a thing, but apparently she found that there are some

0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:54.200
<v Speaker 1>anecdotal evidence at least of young people wanting braces as

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.800
<v Speaker 1>a fashion statement, like a decorative fashion brace that you

0:33:57.840 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 1>can get online.

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I saw some article written by some square that

0:34:04.360 --> 0:34:09.280
<v Speaker 2>said non prescription glasses and fashion braces are the big

0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:10.640
<v Speaker 2>things right now.

0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Man, oh man, I mean, I were you know very

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:17.680
<v Speaker 1>famously were fake glasses to seem smarter when I was younger,

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.520
<v Speaker 1>But you couldn't have caught me dead with fake braces.

0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:24.439
<v Speaker 2>No, it doesn't make any sense, and I also kind

0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 2>of suspect it might be an urban legend.

0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:28.239
<v Speaker 1>I do too.

0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:30.880
<v Speaker 2>One thing that doesn't seem to be an urban legend

0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:35.200
<v Speaker 2>that I saw there was gap bands, apparently people kind

0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:36.879
<v Speaker 2>of but with an S on the end of band,

0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:42.160
<v Speaker 2>where you use like a kind of like a really

0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 2>strong rubber band. You put it on the tooth you

0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:50.799
<v Speaker 2>want to straighten out, and then connect the other one

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to a straight tooth to use it as leverage, and

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:58.200
<v Speaker 2>apparently it works really fast. Again, the orthodontric communities like

0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 2>don't do those. Supposedly with some eight year old boy

0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:05.960
<v Speaker 2>in grease who had done this himself, but the rubber

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:10.360
<v Speaker 2>band went up into his gums, and according to these people,

0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:13.400
<v Speaker 2>he didn't notice, and it just ate away at the

0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:16.520
<v Speaker 2>tissue up there and he ended up losing the very teeth,

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 2>I think, his front teeth that he was trying to

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.279
<v Speaker 2>straighten in the first place. That too, sounds a bit

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 2>like an urban legend, but I saw it in enough

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.560
<v Speaker 2>places that I wonder if it might be based on

0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:28.440
<v Speaker 2>some sort of legitimate story somewhere.

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.239
<v Speaker 1>I could see that. I mean, I you know, you

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.040
<v Speaker 1>probably use rubber bands along with your braces.

0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, I never had braces.

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:36.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you never had them at all.

0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I did not need them as a kid. It wasn't

0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:40.200
<v Speaker 2>until I was an adult that I started to kind

0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:42.760
<v Speaker 2>of need them for my lower teeth.

0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 1>You got pretty good teeth, though, I've never noticed your

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.480
<v Speaker 1>teeth being crooked or whatever.

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.920
<v Speaker 2>That's because I don't smile and show my lower teeth

0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>number one, because I'm not insane. But number two, because

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 2>those are the ones that are crooked. Luckily, it's my

0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:58.800
<v Speaker 2>top row that's pretty straight. So when I smile, it

0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:00.879
<v Speaker 2>looks like my teeth are great. But if I hey,

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:04.680
<v Speaker 2>they really Yeah, with the a lot on there, just

0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:08.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of that was pretty good play acting too, by

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the way, Yeah, it was good.

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 1>All right. So let's talk about some stats. A few

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:17.200
<v Speaker 1>years ago, in twenty twenty two, three point one five

0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 1>million kids between eight and seventeen were getting orthodonic treatment.

0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:26.320
<v Speaker 1>This sounds way low to me. Seven point four percent

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>of that age group is all that was. There were

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:32.440
<v Speaker 1>other estimates that say about half of kids receive some

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of orthodonic treatment at some point. That seems low

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.759
<v Speaker 1>to me too, just based on anecdotal what I'm seeing

0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:40.279
<v Speaker 1>around me. But you know, maybe that's right.

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.439
<v Speaker 2>So kids like you were saying, it's just basically part

0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 2>of being a kid today, you get braces at some point.

0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:48.920
<v Speaker 1>It seems like it. I just I feel like Ruby

0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:51.480
<v Speaker 1>and most of her friends have braces.

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean that tracks I found a statistic that in

0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the US alone, out of pocket spending amounts to five

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:04.279
<v Speaker 2>almost five and a half billion dollars a year. I'm orthodonture,

0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:07.879
<v Speaker 2>and then insurance and medicaid covers an additional four point

0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.240
<v Speaker 2>two billion, So it's like a ten billion dollar industry

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:11.960
<v Speaker 2>just in the United States alone.

0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, and you know, kind of going back

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:18.680
<v Speaker 1>as we'll finish up here to the beginning of like

0:37:19.000 --> 0:37:22.799
<v Speaker 1>is this a medical issue or is it just to create, like,

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:26.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, kids without self esteem problems because they're maybe

0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 1>have crooked teeth. And certainly the rise of Hollywood and

0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:33.920
<v Speaker 1>it used to say something sort of about class. I

0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:38.399
<v Speaker 1>think it's still still can unfortunately, and you know, with

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:42.880
<v Speaker 1>with movies and advertisements and TV and stuff like that, YouTube,

0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:47.239
<v Speaker 1>social media, straight teeth is the thing. And you know,

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 1>starting the post war era, like especially with young girls,

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:52.520
<v Speaker 1>they were saying, hey, you got little self esteem, it's

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:53.880
<v Speaker 1>probably because of your teeth.

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I wonder though, so that that class thing, the socioeconomic

0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:01.279
<v Speaker 2>part of it, that actually makes it hard to study orthodonics,

0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:06.320
<v Speaker 2>because if you want to study people with say braces

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:10.239
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, you're automatically working from another kind

0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 2>of bias, a selection bias, because they are probably from

0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a higher socioeconomic class than that average person who doesn't

0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 2>have braces, because so much of it is paid for

0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>out of pocket. But it occurred to me just now, Chuck,

0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Well you're saying that that I wonder if that whole

0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:29.520
<v Speaker 2>thing about them fixing health issues or whatever is essentially

0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:32.719
<v Speaker 2>made up to get insurance companies to cover what otherwise

0:38:32.719 --> 0:38:36.600
<v Speaker 2>would be considered cosmetic. So they're actually doing it strictly

0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:38.759
<v Speaker 2>for esthetic purposes, but they're trying to make it so

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:41.279
<v Speaker 2>you the parent, don't have to pay for all of

0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:44.279
<v Speaker 2>it out of pocket. Maybe that's what's going on here.

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe. I mean, this is the kind of thing that's

0:38:47.200 --> 0:38:49.399
<v Speaker 1>really hard to study as far as whether or not

0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>there is a medical benefit or need, because and Lvia

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 1>points us out. You know, you've got to conduct randomized trials,

0:38:57.640 --> 0:38:59.920
<v Speaker 1>So you have to find a large group of people

0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:03.800
<v Speaker 1>who have, you know, pretty similar dental profiles, and you

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:05.640
<v Speaker 1>got to have one group that you get braces to

0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:08.560
<v Speaker 1>and then a control group that you don't, and then

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.359
<v Speaker 1>follow them over a long period of time to see

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:14.080
<v Speaker 1>what kind of problems developed, like headaches or something. And

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>that's just really that's a tough study to pull off.

0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again, I mean the study population you're drawing from, like,

0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:24.640
<v Speaker 2>nobody's going to do that. So if you're studying people

0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:28.240
<v Speaker 2>who already have braces, you're automatically working with that selection

0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:30.600
<v Speaker 2>bias because they're more likely to be from a higher

0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 2>socioeconomic group. Yeah, totally, you got anything else about braces?

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I'll add I had the two kinds

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of braces. Oh, For many years after the braces, I

0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:45.800
<v Speaker 1>had this bar put on the back of my lower

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:49.560
<v Speaker 1>teeth that span like the front five and that was

0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:53.080
<v Speaker 1>supposedly to keep them in place neat and that eventually

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.279
<v Speaker 1>broke off, and I just went for years with those

0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.479
<v Speaker 1>metal stumps there. Because I've spent quite a few without

0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:02.080
<v Speaker 1>going to the gist at one point.

0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm guessing college years and maybe immediately after bing

0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:12.919
<v Speaker 2>bing bing. That's how it goes. Man, Let's see, well,

0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 2>you don't have anything else about braces. I don't either.

0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Thanks to all the orthodonists out there for listening, uh

0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.919
<v Speaker 2>and everyone. If I turn up assassinated in the next

0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:23.719
<v Speaker 2>couple of weeks is because I did figure out the

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 2>big secret to orthodonics and insurance. Yeah, and Chuck said, yeah,

0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:29.759
<v Speaker 2>so that means it's time for a listener mail.

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.520
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna wake up and Steve Martin's going to be

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:34.760
<v Speaker 1>over you with a dental drill.

0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:35.560
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.919
<v Speaker 1>By the way, highly highly highly recommend the two part

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.360
<v Speaker 1>documentary on Steve Martin. Okay, it is great.

0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know it was out.

0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:47.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's been out for a little bit. It's it's

0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:49.360
<v Speaker 1>really really good, and it kind of makes me realize

0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:51.440
<v Speaker 1>what a I mean. I've always been a Steve Martin fan,

0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 1>but it really knocks home what a treasure he is

0:40:54.280 --> 0:40:54.799
<v Speaker 1>as a human.

0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I bet.

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's fun and I just recently rewatched Three Amigos

0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:01.920
<v Speaker 1>showed Ruby for the first time, which she thought was

0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:02.399
<v Speaker 1>very fun.

0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen that one. Oh really, yeah, but.

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:07.319
<v Speaker 1>That seems like it would have been one on your list.

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't well, actually I do know why.

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Why you don't watch vy Chase. Of course, he's the

0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.000
<v Speaker 1>least funny part of the movie. You need to watch

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 1>it for Martin Short and Steve Martin.

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll do my best, So I'd rather watch only murders

0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:22.520
<v Speaker 2>in the building.

0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:25.240
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm with you. I'm with you, all right, Hey, guys,

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:27.320
<v Speaker 1>this is what is this about? This is well, this

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.600
<v Speaker 1>is kind of about medical school, so it fits. I've

0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:31.680
<v Speaker 1>been listening for nearly a decade. Was very excited to

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:34.160
<v Speaker 1>have an occasion to write in. During the episode on cigarettes,

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned an early physician who observed nasal swellings and

0:41:38.040 --> 0:41:43.759
<v Speaker 1>excretiences and immoderate users of snuff, and Josh interprets this

0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:47.840
<v Speaker 1>as puffy pussy lumps in their noses. I recently graduated

0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:49.600
<v Speaker 1>from medical school, and it's a rite of passage for

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:53.520
<v Speaker 1>medical students to describe a wound with puss as pussy,

0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:59.280
<v Speaker 1>only to realize this word appears rather crass when written out. Instead,

0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:02.680
<v Speaker 1>we use the word p U r u l E

0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and purulent to avoid any potential misunderstanding. If a patient

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:10.080
<v Speaker 1>reads the notes. Obviously it's a little different in a

0:42:10.120 --> 0:42:12.239
<v Speaker 1>podcast setting, which I doubt listeners are often reading an

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:13.239
<v Speaker 1>episode transcript.

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, well to go look that up. I figured this.

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Little nugget of knowledge might be helpful. I'm sure you

0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:19.919
<v Speaker 1>hear this every day, but I want to say thanks

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:21.600
<v Speaker 1>for all the great work you do. Suffie Schnow has

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:23.799
<v Speaker 1>been a constant source of joy for me as I've

0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 1>navigated college, med school, marriage, fatherhood, and now residency training

0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and pathology. You brought my perspective on a basterray of issues,

0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and I always look forward to listening to new and

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.320
<v Speaker 1>old episodes alike on my commute. And that is from Gabe,

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:39.319
<v Speaker 1>who says, Hey, come to ann Arbor, Michigan for a

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:42.200
<v Speaker 1>live show, and we're maybe trying to work that out, Gabe.

0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're batting around, Gabe. Good idea.

0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:46.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I tell you what, Gabe, if we come

0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:49.640
<v Speaker 1>to ann Arbor, write us back from that very same

0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:52.400
<v Speaker 1>thread in you and your friends and family or whatever,

0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:55.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, not like twenty people, but you can get

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:55.839
<v Speaker 1>on the guest list.

0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, good idea, Chuck, that's a fool proof plan, no

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:04.319
<v Speaker 2>possible way for identity theft. That's right, And congratulations Gabe.

0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:08.439
<v Speaker 2>On all of your academic and medical success, and thanks

0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:11.080
<v Speaker 2>for listening to us that entire time. If you want

0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:12.920
<v Speaker 2>to be like Gabe and send us a cool email,

0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 2>you can do that too, Send it off to stuff

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:20.440
<v Speaker 2>podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:27.799
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:29.720
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.